S01.E17: Chapter Seventeen

[Tara Ariano]

Rafael reacts poorly to a crisis at the hotel, leading Jane to wonder how he'll face parenthood. Meanwhile, Alba disapproves of Xo's living arrangement; Michael and Rogelio help out one another; and Petra feels uneasy after she uncovers a huge secret.

[RachelKM]

Squeee!!! Michael and Rogelio! I can barely care about anything else in that teaser.  I mean, I love the show and I'm sure I'm going to enjoy many things, but I love those two together.

Edited April 4, 2015 by RachelKM

[tennisgurl]

Michael and Rogelio are the best odd couple duo I never knew I needed to see! 

 

Teared up a little at the Jane/grandma/Xo porch conversation. Right there with you, Latin Lover Narrator!

 

So the bad twin faked his own death? And his now pretending to be the good twin? What a twist! 

[SeanC]

Another great episode.  I just love this.

 

I'm not sure it's really practical to expect Rafael to take time off work, given the current state of the business; and they can afford help.  Not that I don't understand Jane's worries about parenting arrangements.  Though it did strike me that the situation is kind of exacerbated in that Rafael literally lives at his workplace.

 

I'm interested to meet Rogelio's mother -- though I hope, despite the emphasis on her not approving of Xo, we see her and Jane, since you would think she'd really want to meet her granddaughter.

 

The Rogelio and Michael dynamic continues to be delightful.

[Rhetorica]

I can't wait to see how Jane is going to react when she realizes she got her ex back with his ex. Should be interesting.....

[redsox7819]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

Edited April 7, 2015 by redsox7819

[SeanC]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

I don't think that's the case.

 

It's certainly settled into identifiable rhythms now, so it's not as surprising as it initially was, but I think the underlying quality is still there.

[tennisgurl]

I still utterly adore it. 

[allonsyalice]

I think this show is still wonderful, and gets more intense every week.

I need to know how Andi is going to play into this. and also, what did roman have to gain by killing his brother and taking his place? unless it wasn't Roman??

also, I need to see Michael and Rogelio broing it out every week from now on.

[twoods]

The scary thing is that those crazy neurotic moms and lactation nurses exist. They make everyone else so freaking anxious about having a baby. Poor Jane.

Michael and Rogelio are awesome.

I like Andi a lot.

The Michael/Jane flashback scenes are so cute. They seemed so in synch and happy.

Edited April 7, 2015 by twoods

[calliope1975]

Rogelio and Michael is the best bro team I didn't know I needed. I really like them together. 

 

I'm going to need the show to stop showing Michael and Jane in happy times if they want me to root for Rafael and Jane. I mean, I probably won't, because I just can't connect with Rafael or JB, but they're just making it harder to not want Jane and Michael back together. 

 

I don't actually think J/M will get back together, though, so I'll be happy if they can keep Michael and Rogelio on BFF terms. 

[Irlandesa]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

I don't know if it's the show overall because I think I enjoyed the last one but this episode fell utterly flat for me.  I do think the break neck pacing may be catching up to it. 

 

But I do have the sense that it knew what it was and where it was going for the first thirteen episodes.  We had the big Sin Rostro mystery being built up to.  I'm sure there are secrets and twists in store for the finale but right now, the episodes do feel like they're treading water a bit and aren't arcing towards something the way they were earlier in the season. That doesn't mean that scenes or stories they tell can't be good or entertaining, I just don't feel the anticipation the way I once did.  The breaks don't help either.

[omgsowicked]

Usually the twists and turns surprise me but I was waiting for them to reveal that Aaron was really Roman. So what, did Roman invite Aaron to the party for a reconciliation and then push him to his death? Why? Is there something to learn that he can only find out as Aaron?

 

I also wonder what Andi's deal is, especially since she knows that Jane's Michael's ex (probably figured it out via the social media stalking). She seemed legitimately nice to Jane, and I liked their friendship... I don't know what her angle is. But I'm sure she has one.

 

Loving the Michael/Rogelio bromance, definitely keep that going!

 

I think I've officially switched over to #TeamMichael. I was starting to head that way and this episode did me in. Yes, Rafael has a business to run, and no, a nanny isn't the worst thing ever. But I definitely understand Jane's frustration that she's basically going it alone (though she has her family, such a sweet moment). And Rafael was a very nasty drunk. The "love will conquer all" stuff fell as flat for me as it seems to have done for Jane. Unfortunately, I'm with the folks who think Michael will bite the dust so switching to #TeamMichael will likely end in pain for me, haha.

[Primetimer]

Jane's dad and Jane's ex have really hit it off since Rogelio's ride-along, and their friendship is a beautiful thing.

Read the story

[LydiaMoon1]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

It's not just you.  My sister and I totally agree with you that the show has lost its magic.

 

I don't know if it's the show overall because I think I enjoyed the last one but this episode fell utterly flat for me.  I do think the break neck pacing may be catching up to it.

For me, the show has felt flat since the Sin Rostro reveal. I don't think pacing is the problem, it's that they didn't replace Sin Rostro with another compelling story arc. They need another mystery or a compelling villain or SOMETHING! All they're doing now is meandering with love triangles and cutesy romance that just doesn't hold my attention.

[Indi]

Rafael should let Petra run the hotel, because he sucks at it.

[sacrebleu]

Rogelio continues to be the best part of the show, but what the hell was he doing wearing a white t-shirt? He wouldn't be caught dead in such a ridiculous outfit! 

 

Question: If Rogelio went out for drinks with the World's Most Interesting Man, would the sheer concentration of awesome cause the world to collapse in on itself like a dying star?

 

Back on topic, I'm actually glad to see some real issues in the Jane/Rafael relationship. They got together due to a combination of wild circumstances and romantic chemistry-- it's good to see the show examine some very real reasons why this relationship won't work. 

[BoogieBurns]

It's not just you.  My sister and I totally agree with you that the show has lost its magic.

 

Unfortunately my sister doesn't watch this show. But my (female) cousin and I agree this episode wasn't so awesome. Hope that counts!

[TVHappy9463]

This show is my happy place.  It mixes soapy goodness ( the mole on the back, dead twin twist), with heartfelt character interactions, (Rugelio/Michael, Xo/Jane/Alba) in a wonderful hour of television.  If Jaime Camil isn't nominated for an Emmy that will be a crime. How may times can they give 3 of the 5 slots to the men on Modern Family. Enough already! #JaimeCamilEmmy

[SeanC]

Usually the twists and turns surprise me but I was waiting for them to reveal that Aaron was really Roman. So what, did Roman invite Aaron to the party for a reconciliation and then push him to his death? Why? Is there something to learn that he can only find out as Aaron?

My speculation is that Roman and Rose knew that the police were onto Roman's criminal activities, so they faked his death to throw the police off the scent.

[gesundheit]

Once again, every time I see this show on my DVR, I think "eh, not in any rush" and then when I watch it, it's DELIGHTFUL. How can it be this good? And why do have that same experience every time?

 

I'm such a fan of how they're finally having Rafael let his guard down and showing us why you don't marry someone after dating for three months. We're all on our best behavior when we're still infatuated, it's learning to find out whether you can swing with the punches of one another at our worst that particularly determines the long-term potential. This isn't to say they should call it quits, it's to say I'm glad the show let up on making Rafael too good to be true (which was realistic for early days, it's not a criticism).

 

That was so mean of Rogelio to do that to Xo! But he's already forgiven. Because he's Rogelio. 

 

Has there been a throwaway line yet about what the deal is with Petra's mother now? I might have missed it.

[Enginerd]

For me, it's still just as delightful as the first episode. But then I am always more into the nuances and little jokes and character development and side plots than the Big Dramatic Suspenseful Plot Arc.

Rafael was a mean drunk and a huge jerk this episode, not to mention a stupid business manager. I've always been a Rafael fan, though I don't necessarily favor him over Michael as a partner for Jane. They both have their pluses and minuses. But I do like that they aren't letting him be too saintly. It does seem to me that he is being set up as more the hero, just because he has more problems and flaws to overcome. Michael needs a few more challenges. He isn't getting the same kind of character development. What does he do other than pine for Jane and work at his job (at which he is fairly competent)? And hang around with Rogelio, which I LOVE, but he needs more. His brother was a thorn in his side...where's he these days?

As much as I hated Rafael's behavior, I did sympathize with him a lot. I know what it's like to have things in your personal life that you should be spending more time on, but at the same time things are going all to hell at work and you feel like if you aren't dealing with that every waking hour, you'll lose your job/business and then where will you and your loved ones be?

But Rafael really needs to hire more competent employees so he can delegate more...or just not step in anyway because clearly he has bad judgment. And I don't even mean going ahead with the party without the permit. As was the theme in a previous episode, he needs to look further back to find the source of his problem. Why the hades did he want to bring in the college spring break crowd anyway? That's got to be about the worst clientele for a posh hotel. Most of them underage = huge liability, plus as an aggregate mass that crowd is neither exactly the most respectful of property nor will they spend per person what a more mature clientele would. Although I guess when your clientele tends to include murderers and murderees, perhaps you get less picky. But I still think he would have done better to advertise as the place for older richer people to get AWAY from the spring breakers.

I love Rogelio's new house and I want to live there. Preferably with Rogelio there to amuse me. He never ceases to be a hoot. "I need to make love to you in a place that doesn't feel like a convent." I'm looking forward to his mother's visit, but don't understand why she hadn't come earlier if she and Rogelio are close. Why wasn't she on the first plane to meet the granddaughter she'd never known she had?

Loved Michael using his detective skills on Rogelio's love life.

I like Andi so far, but knowing that Michael and Jane dated and not letting Jane know that her ex is the same guy seems really shady. Also, I don't really understand why anyone would want to get back with an ex. If you already broke up once, there was a reason for it. Why revisit a relationship you already know didn't have enough going for it?

Also, I guessed right MONTHS AGO that Aaron would really be Roman! I almost never guess plot twists correctly so I must revel in it. Although maybe it will turn out that BOTH of them were really Aaron, for strange twisty reasons. But Roman was really putting way too much effort into the whole peaceful calm nonviolence soothing voice thing to be believable as someone who as been a Jain for many years, plus he knew too much about Petra, so it wasn't that hard to guess. I imagine a real Jain would be comfortable with his worldview and not try so hard for the image.

[Enginerd]

I hope in the next few episodes we see more of the characters who have been on the back burner, like Rose and Luisa, and Michael's sketchy brother and Jane's waitress friend who was dating him.

[PiggyRod]

I hope in the next few episodes we see more of the characters who have been on the back burner, like Rose and Luisa, and Michael's sketchy brother and Jane's waitress friend who was dating him.

 

I think that's the problem. Many of the main story lines have been dropped.  We do not know what happened to Sin Rostro, where is Luisa, the brother, and Petra's mom. I am really hoping they are going to be mentioned again but until then they should be doing something to keep them in mind. Not disregard them completely and move on.  Also, we see that Jane still works at the hotel, but what happened to the school?

 

The show itself is still really REALLY great, I just need a bit more of continuity. 

 

Rogelio is the best thing ever.

[Bouffe]

For me, the show has felt flat since the Sin Rostro reveal. I don't think pacing is the problem, it's that they didn't replace Sin Rostro with another compelling story arc. They need another mystery or a compelling villain or SOMETHING! 

I don't think the show has lost its magic, but I agree it definitely needs another big intrigue, now that we know who Sin Rostro is. Maybe all those "filler" episodes are to set the stage for another big reveal? I mean, we do not know what's going with Magda, Milos, Ivan, Michael's brother, Rose!!!!!, Luisa...Will those be part of another big reveal/intrigue? I also feel like the Sin Rostro storyline was put on the back burner - I mean, we know who Sin Rostro is, but it can't be the end of the storyline, can it?

 

I feel like Luisa went to find Rose and ran away with her.

 

Normally this show totally surprises me with the reveals and twists, but this time, I saw Petra coming from a mile away when she started flirting with Aaron/Roman. I've thought for a while now that Aaron was really Roman.

 

The lactation consultant really got on my last nerve. Becoming a parent is already stressful enough, no need to make anyone feel inadequate! It's unfortunate that there are people like that in real life.

 

Count me in as another one who liked that they showed Rafael as not the perfect catch we were lead to believe he was. And also showing differences in how people see their life with children. Rafael clearly thinks a nanny is a good solution so that Jane doesn't have to do everything alone. On the other hand, Jane thinks Rafael should be the one pinching in. I'm interested to see how they will resolve those differences.

 

And what's the deal with Andi?

[September]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

It's not just you, I think the same. Drunk!Rafael was a jerk, but I found Jane insufferable in this episode. You can't study to be a mother and you can't plan for everything.

If Rafael was busy preparing for the party, she could have gone to Target with Xo. She shouldn't have gone with Lina because she doesn't know anything about babies and she shouldn't have paid attention to that woman.

Besides that, I am starting to get tired of Alba's attitude towards her daughter. Xo is almost 40 and she doesn't need her mother's permission to move in with Rogelio.

Edited April 7, 2015 by September

[tennisgurl]

I kind of feel like there is more to Jane`s new friend/Michael s ex than meets the eye. I wonder if she might be our next big reveal. 

[hogwash]

I probably being over sensitive but that scene with Jane's future child drawing only the Villenueva women as her family annoyed me. It was a sweet moment for the women after all the fighting but it's still Rafael's kid too. Even if she was disappointed with him. Even if they do eventually breakup. Unless the show's hinting at Rafael's demise (UGH at that! If you can't think of a way to resolve a love triangle without offing someone, nix the freaking love triangle).

I don't know how many times they're gonna rehash this storyline of Jane going batshit worrying about some hypothetical her brain's cooked up then fretting when Rafael doesn't react to the imaginary hypothetical exactly the way she wants him to. Even weirder, Rafael always seems to be dealing with an actual crisis/issue at the same time. I get that Jane's worried that Rafael wouldn't be as involved/she would raise the kid alone. It's her foremost concern, given her issues with her upbringing. Rafael's dad was recently murdered and pouring himself into the Marbella is how he is coping. We get it. They haven't been together long so they don't know each other well enough to help with these issues. But why is the approach and outcome always the same? When are they (as a couple) gonna try something different?

I love Petra but every time anyone mentions she's still in love with Rafael, I see that scene with all the crap she did to Rafael is stamped onscreen. Pining over someone you plotted against, cheated on, accused of domestic violence, etc. is a such soap opera thing to do.

Michael's weird problem with Rafael is still annoying to me. I can't take it seriously because it was there when Rafael was still with Petra/had no interest in Jane. Is Andi supposed to be ~his future~ if his behavior goes on long enough?

[Irlandesa]

 

Rafael clearly thinks a nanny is a good solution so that Jane doesn't have to do everything alone. On the other hand, Jane thinks Rafael should be the one pinching in. I'm interested to see how they will resolve those differences.

Rafael likely thought it was a good solution because he grew up with nannies so it's normal to him.  This is an important difference.  Breaking up won't solve it because regardless of whether or not they're together, they're going to be co-parents.

 

I don't know how many times they're gonna rehash this storyline of Jane going batshit worrying about some hypothetical her brain's cooked up then fretting when Rafael doesn't react to the imaginary hypothetical exactly the way she wants him to.

This!  That really bothered me about the scene.  Rafael gave her a solution.  She didn't like that solution.  She wanted something else from him.  He didn't read her mind.  It's just like when he proposed to her and she gave him that test about not writing to see if he'd know he should tell her differently. 

 

For me, the show has felt flat since the Sin Rostro reveal. I don't think pacing is the problem, it's that they didn't replace Sin Rostro with another compelling story arc.

Here's why I said pacing--they burned through a lot of story in thirteen episodes.  The concept of Sin Rostro was introduced in the pilot.  Episode 13 is when the audience should discover who it is.  Episode 14 is NOT the episode in which Sin Rostro should then disappear. [Ep numbers may be off, I didn't go double check.] There's mystery in not knowing who Sin Rostro is.  There's also intrigue in the audience knowing who it is but the rest of the fictional world does not know.  We also had this build up to Petra's past yet that mystery is pretty much over as well.  Milos isn't an evil villain--he just has "anger issues" so there's no second arc to that story either, especially since her mother is MIA.  Luisa was vindicated and she disappeared.  And oh, Sin Rostro killed Rafael's father. You're right that had they replaced these arcs with another compelling arc, it'd be fine.  But had they paced the stories out a bit more, they'd also be in a better position. All these secondary characters wouldn't be MIA.  I know there were likely some availability issues but probably not for all of the actors. 

[penelope79]

I probably being over sensitive but that scene with Jane's future child drawing only the Villenueva women as her family annoyed me. It was a sweet moment for the women after all the fighting but it's still Rafael's kid too. Even if she was disappointed with him. Even if they do eventually breakup. Unless the show's hinting at Rafael's demise (UGH at that! If you can't think of a way to resolve a love triangle without offing someone, nix the freaking love triangle).

I don't know how many times they're gonna rehash this storyline of Jane going batshit worrying about some hypothetical her brain's cooked up then fretting when Rafael doesn't react to the imaginary hypothetical exactly the way she wants him to. Even weirder, Rafael always seems to be dealing with an actual crisis/issue at the same time. I get that Jane's worried that Rafael wouldn't be as involved/she would raise the kid alone. It's her foremost concern, given her issues with her upbringing. Rafael's dad was recently murdered and pouring himself into the Marbella is how he is coping. We get it. They haven't been together long so they don't know each other well enough to help with these issues. But why is the approach and outcome always the same? When are they (as a couple) gonna try something different?

I love Petra but every time anyone mentions she's still in love with Rafael, I see that scene with all the crap she did to Rafael is stamped onscreen. Pining over someone you plotted against, cheated on, accused of domestic violence, etc. is a such soap opera thing to do.

Michael's weird problem with Rafael is still annoying to me. I can't take it seriously because it was there when Rafael was still with Petra/had no interest in Jane. Is Andi supposed to be ~his future~ if his behavior goes on long enough?

 

 

This!  That really bothered me about the scene.  Rafael gave her a solution.  She didn't like that solution.  She wanted something else from him.  He didn't read her mind.  It's just like when he proposed to her and she gave him that test about not writing to see if he'd know he should tell her differently. 

 

I completely agree with both of you. I got it, Jane and Rafael haven't been together that long and they're in the unique situation where they are getting to know each other while, at the same time, expecting a baby. But, as much as I love both Jane and Rafael, I hate that each and every time they have some issue she's the one testing him and he is the one looking like a jerk just because he hasn't passed the test (according to Jane's romantic ideas about love and life). Don't get me wrong, he DID act like a jerk with Jane in this specific circumstance (though he was worried, mad at himself, feeling guilty and finally drunk), but come on!

 

Maybe it's me. Color me confused about this love triangle. It doesn't matter if I like it or not, I just don't get it. I like both Rafael and Michael (though I like Jane with Rafael more), but the show basically told me for several episodes that Michael made an unforgivable mistake, that Jane was right dumping him, that Rafael (the father of her baby) is her fate... but at the same time, he fails to meet her expectations (and she has A LOT of expectations) because, you know, his whole life has recently turned upside down; while everybody loves that perfect guy Michael and completely forgot why he and Jane broke up in the first place, whereas Rafael is usually portrayed as a borderline douchebag.

So, how am I supposed to believe that Michael still needs a chance after what he did to Jane?

And how, exactly, should I believe that Rafael and Jane are meant for each other, if everything he does is basically wrong in everybody's opinion, specially Jane's? (Oh right, except Petra, who is still in love with him... a quadrangle? No, thank you!)

 

The whole triangle is really, really contradictory. Most of them are, I know that, but at least usually you can understand, though not share, both sidepoints. In this case, as soon as you think you know when they're coming from with either Rafael or Michael, they seem to change idea afterwards.

 

I don't know. Obviously the show doesn't want to take official sides because (unfortunately) wants to keep going on with the triangle for awhile but, if that's what they mean, then they should cut Rafael some slack and develop Michael a little bit more, besides his big love for Jane. Michael's character is even more in trouble. It has so much potential (mostly thanks to Brett Dier who is amazing and particularly shines in funny scenes), but you can only see him pining for Jane/hating Rafael and working, on some occasions. Even his bromance with Rogelio, as much as I love it,  has everything to do with Jane. On the other hand, Rafael looks like someone who is unable to do right. At least, that's what Jane's disappointed looks seems to suggest me all the time.

 

Yeah, I guess I hate love triangles.

[LydiaMoon1]

Here's why I said pacing--they burned through a lot of story in thirteen episodes.  The concept of Sin Rostro was introduced in the pilot.  Episode 13 is when the audience should discover who it is.  Episode 14 is NOT the episode in which Sin Rostro should then disappear. [Ep numbers may be off, I didn't go double check.] There's mystery in not knowing who Sin Rostro is.  There's also intrigue in the audience knowing who it is but the rest of the fictional world does not know.  We also had this build up to Petra's past yet that mystery is pretty much over as well.  Milos isn't an evil villain--he just has "anger issues" so there's no second arc to that story either, especially since her mother is MIA.  Luisa was vindicated and she disappeared.  And oh, Sin Rostro killed Rafael's father. You're right that had they replaced these arcs with another compelling arc, it'd be fine.  But had they paced the stories out a bit more, they'd also be in a better position. All these secondary characters wouldn't be MIA.  I know there were likely some availability issues but probably not for all of the actors.

I think we’ve identified the same problem, we’re just phrasing it differently.  In fact, you’ve just pinpointed the source of my current discontent with the show. There is no follow through.  The writers build up to a big reveal, and then…….nothing (see bolded).  There have been too many dropped characters and storylines, and the murder of Raphael’s father should have been much more than a plot point (especially for Luisa considering that it was Rose who killed him).  Petra’s past and Milos appearance were also major disappointments.  I know they’re trying to keep the tone of show light, but they’re leaving too much story on the table.

 

Drunk!Rafael was a jerk, but I found Jane insufferable in this episode.

 

I don't know how many times they're gonna rehash this storyline of Jane going batshit worrying about some hypothetical her brain's cooked up then fretting when Rafael doesn't react to the imaginary hypothetical exactly the way she wants him to.

Agreed.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[Bouffe]

BOUFFE, ON 07 APR 2015 - 1:33 PM, SAID:

Rafael clearly thinks a nanny is a good solution so that Jane doesn't have to do everything alone. On the other hand, Jane thinks Rafael should be the one pinching in. I'm interested to see how they will resolve those differences.

 

Rafael likely thought it was a good solution because he grew up with nannies so it's normal to him.  This is an important difference.  Breaking up won't solve it because regardless of whether or not they're together, they're going to be co-parents.

 

I totally agree. Their backgrounds are different, their childhood experiences are different, so their vision of how to take care of a baby is also different. and yeah, breaking up won't make a difference, as they will both have to take care of the baby anyway.

This!  That really bothered me about the scene.  Rafael gave her a solution.  She didn't like that solution.  She wanted something else from him.  He didn't read her mind.  It's just like when he proposed to her and she gave him that test about not writing to see if he'd know he should tell her differently. 

Very true! Jane seems to know what she wants from her man, but she doesn't seem to always be able to tell him what she wants/needs and she gets disappointed when he can't read her mind. Xo was just like that with her "I want him to say I love you first"... But at least she ended up telling Rogelio.

[ElTVaddict]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the sye

Yes I agree, Jane is just to whinny and lives in such a fantasy. She and Rafael don't really know each other and yet they are trying to force a relationship, because she's pregnant. Would this had been the case if the pregnancy happened the usual way.

 

Jane really seem to believe life is like a romance novel, even after the break-up with Michael, which I don't understand how that happened. He didn't want her to have another man's baby and he is painted as the bad guy. Why didn't she give him time to come around to the idea in his own time. Seems like she still fantasized about life with Rafael from a kiss years before. He's not living up to her fantasy either, but yet she hasn't broken up with him.

[September]

Jane really seem to believe life is like a romance novel, even after the break-up with Michael, which I don't understand how that happened. He didn't want her to have another man's baby and he is painted as the bad guy. Why didn't she give him time to come around to the idea in his own time. Seems like she still fantasized about life with Rafael from a kiss years before. He's not living up to her fantasy either, but yet she hasn't broken up with him.

 

Like Rafael said in the previous episode, life is not all flowers and fantasy. Rafael loves Jane and the baby, but right now he has a lot on his plate. She should cut him some slack. Everything would be easier if Jane lived in the Marbella. (If Jane and Michael were still a couple, Michael wouldn't be able to go to Target with her because he is a detective and works long hours. Jane isn't being realistic)

 

I understand why Jane broke up with Michael. His behavior when he didn't want the baby left a lot to be desired. He said that Jane was hormonal when she started to get suspicious of Petra, he stole evidence from a crime scene,... 

[Irlandesa]

He didn't want her to have another man's baby and he is painted as the bad guy. Why didn't she give him time to come around to the idea in his own time.

It didn't stop with him simply not wanting to have another man's baby.  If that were all it was Jane wouldn't have broken up with him because he did come around.  Jane broke up with Michael because of how that desire manifested itself into lies and, from her perspective, endgangering her child's welfare.

 

Michael's feelings were okay.  His actions were the problem.

 

I think we’ve identified the same problem, we’re just phrasing it differently.  In fact, you’ve just pinpointed the source of my current discontent with the show. There is no follow through.  The writers build up to a big reveal, and then…….nothing (see bolded).  There have been too many dropped characters and storylines, and the murder of Raphael’s father should have been much more than a plot point (especially for Luisa considering that it was Rose who killed him). 

Yep.  That was a point I wanted to make too but felt I had already rambled on long enough.  I like the little things of this show too. I like the relationship between the women.  Rogelio amuses me.  I generally like Raf and Jane.  I can swing between loving and hating Petra.  But plot is nice too.  I liked how the show didn't linger on stupid things too long.  Secrets weren't neverending to the point of stupidity.  That said, good soap opera builds to the climax and then shows the fallout.  There has been very little fallout shown from some of the major arcs from the beginning of the season.

[Enginerd]

I don't think those plotlines have been dropped, though. I think they've set up a lot of leads for things that will pop up again later. And there are some that have the potential to be major plot arcs, perhaps for season 2. For example, Rafael's mother. Why did she leave? Where is she? What is she doing? There could be a big story and a lot of drama there. And I'm sure we'll come back around to what is happening with Luisa and Rose.

Even some of the minor past characters could return as major plots. Betty, for example. Why hasn't she spoken in 12 years? The likely answer would be some kind of serious trauma. In a show like this, that could easily tie in to the lives of the other characters.

I love the Villanueva family, but they do all share the very annoying trait of expecting everyone to get in line with THEIR priorities and THEIR way of thinking and doing things. Yes, Rafael is the father of the baby and he should be a present father, but the baby hasn't been born yet and he has heaps of other crises happening at the moment. Maybe he'd like to focus on solving those problems now so things will be calmer by the time the baby arrives? I mean, all that baby stuff shopping isn't necessary. You only really need a few things; everything else it's probably better to wait and see what you're really going to want and buy as you go anyway. I know it isn't really about the tasks and errands and more about the fact that Jane is anxious about having a baby, but maybe she should spend less time trying to rope him into timewasting tasks and more time actually talking about how they want their baby to be raised, without instantly condemning everything that is familiar to Rafael. Yeah, he didn't have the best childhood, but that is the perspective he comes from so a more thoughtful discussion of why things should be different for their child might work better than automatic rejection of everything he thinks is normal just because it isn't Jane's normal.

[commadrama]

Is it just me and my two sisters or has this show lost some of its magic since the start of the season?

I felt that way about this episode, too. Usually the white on-screen text is a delight, but in this episode it felt tacked on. The only place it was actually effective was the scene where Jane was playing peek-a-boo with the baby.

How many times can you play peek-a-boo with a baby? "127…and counting."

 

It bugs me whenever Jane gives Xo attitude. I get that they're different and they have their emotional, feel-good moments, but the ones where Jane is judgmental or critical  of her mother stand out to me more. I wish she'd cut the poor woman some slack and realize that even if Xo is more impulsive and supposedly has poorer judgment, Xo still has more life experience and Jane could learn a thing or two from her. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by commadrama

[evilmindatwork]

I've felt for a

 

I felt that way about this episode, too. Usually the white on-screen text is a delight, but in this episode it felt tacked on. The only place it was actually effective was the scene where Jane was playing peek-a-boo with the baby.

How many times can you play peek-a-boo with a baby? "127…and counting."

 

It bugs me whenever Jane gives Xo attitude. I get that they're different and they have their emotional, feel-good moments, but the ones where Jane is judgmental or critical  of her mother stand out to me more. I wish she'd cut the poor woman some slack and realize that even if Xo is more impulsive and supposedly has poorer judgment, Xo still has more life experience and Jane could learn a thing or two from her. 

I've felt for a long time that while I like Jane, she Alba are the characters I like least on the show. I feel like they're both righteous and judgmental and admire Xo for putting up with their self-righteousness for all these years.  Xiomara is a stronger and better woman than I am.

[AnnaRose]

Did anyone else think it was strange that they needed a permit to have a party at a private hotel?  Don't they have functions like that all the time?  Didn't they just have a spontaneous rock concert there the week before?

[Eolivet]

I think a few TV showrunners (not just this one) need to sit down with TV Tropes and learn the definition of "love triangle." Because I always thought a love triangle needs one person to have active romantic feelings for two people, but Jane has not been shown to reciprocate Michael's feelings at any point in the last few months the show has aired. The show's insistence on pretending it's an actual "love triangle" by showing flashbacks is ridiculous and I find it to be a really cheap trick. So, I loved Rogelio's #MoveOn speech, because I don't believe it's written in stone that Rafael and Jane will work out, but unless the show is doing a Doctor Who version of a love triangle -- where past!Michael competes with present!Rafael -- I think Michael needs to realize the Michael/Jane ship has sailed. #TeamJane

 

I also found "Jane's future daughter's picture" very telling -- showing only the women. And I believe they never learned the sex of the baby because of the potential problem, so I also feel like this potentially indicates (no spoilers, just spec) the baby will be a boy. Not only does it erase Jane's neurotic manifestation of her child, but it puts the family in entirely new territory. Lots of dramatic potential for a boy being raised by three women.

[SeanC]

Because I always thought a love triangle needs one person to have active romantic feelings for two people

It doesn't.  The love triangle where one person feels unrequited (at present) affection for somebody who's in a relationship with someone else is every bit as common as one person being attracted to two people.

[possibilities]

I love jane. LOVE her. I love how confident she is, how she is passionate but not unfair about her feelings, how she knows what she wants and isn't afraid to ask for it, but when someone says no, she accepts that and plans her life accordingly. She's amazingly grounded and i am so happy to see a female character, especially a young one, who is that self-assured and sane.

 

I think she did tell Rafael what she wanted, very explicitly. And he kept agreeing to it and then standing her up. If he didn't have an interest and was just planning to hire a nanny to do his part of the parenting, it's on him to say that. I thought it was great for Jane to say she had a right to be upset. Why wouldn't she be upset when he was constantly standing her up and making excuses instead of being direct, and then he got drunk and acted seriously shitty? I love that she's not a doormat and doesn't put up with anything that she doesn't like. She realizes she may pay the consequences for having those boundaries, and I think she's brave to stick by her values instead of cowering in the face of Rafael's money and manhood.

 

She seems realistic to me. She said she was afraid she'd wind up raising the kid on her own. She's close to her due date and it's normal for her to be a bit anxious, especially when the father is being unclear with her about what he does or does not plan to do. I think if she was in a fantasy world, she would not be doing research and would just be going along in a fog of "everything will be fine because I'm in looooove."

 

I like Michael as a character and I actually think he's way more interesting than Rafael, who is basically a stock version of "dude"-- and I don't think either of them is a good match for Jane. Michael is fun with Rogelio, but I wonder how R would feel if he knew Michael was willing to sacrifice the well-being of the baby and gaslight Jane in the process. I suspect Rogelio would find all of that very dishonorable. I think she show is kind of regretting they ruined M's character with those actions, which render him basically unredeemable, and want us to forget about it because the actor is so good. Meanwhile, Rafael is given nothing but the same plot over and over because the actor doesn't have the chops for a wider range. Oopsie. They can't get rid of him because he is the father. As such, he will always be a presence, even if they kill him off. Jane will never be able to totally forget about him, once she has the child.

 

I didn't mind that the fantasy daughter was tailored to Jane's internal emotional state. It was her fantasy, and like a dream, it doesn't have to and probably won't reflect reality. But it shows Jane's internal process better than having her write in a diary or do a voice over of her internal monologue.

 

Rogelio wanting Xo and his mother to get along seems fair, as long as mom isn't hellacious. I really don't want to see the "terrible mother in law" trope. I really hope there is a twist so that it's not just that same old same old stupid nonsense.

[anonymiss]

I find Jane incredibly self-righteous and the men on the show to be the product of a 13-year-old girl's fantasy. The telegraphing is also too much as though everyone is Kim K's IQ level. I will keep watching for now though.

[Lady Calypso]

I think I'm having a similar problem when it comes to liking this second half of the season--or rather, liking it less. The first half had a clear arc that they kept up each and every episode. They revealed a little bit at a time and they managed to tie everyone together nicely. For example, Michael's bad breakup with Jane caused him to become overly obsessed with finding Sin Rostro, Petra had her own sidestory with her mother but all of her events led to that revelation and eventually caused her to gain a share of the hotel, and everything to do with Luisa was connected to Rose/Sin Rostro. I like how things are being tied together even with this half, but with the disappearance of Sin Rostro, and the significant increase in Jane/Rafael screentime while decreasing other characters' (Michael, for one, only started getting more screentime because of Rogelio, Luisa's disappeared, Jane's friends aren't really seen beside Lina this episode), it feels like a shift in the show and for me, it's not the best thing.

 

The one thing that is working is the new pairings, like Rogelio/Michael, and more Petra/Rafael. I do like Jane, but sometimes her self-righteousness annoys me. I know she gets it from her abuela, but that's what makes it frustrating. I know they're starting to go back to the Sin Rostro storyline, but I think that that's what the show excelled at. It gave Michael a part to do, because now I feel like they paired him of with Rogelio because they didn't know what to do with him and they kinda possibly accidentally burned any bridges Michael had with Jane's storyline, it gave the hotel a purpose while it's now floundering and we have random 'famous people' showing up, and it just gave the show a goal to end up with (finding out who Sin Rostro is). I know they still have the 'catch Sin Rostro' goal, but they haven't led up to it at all because they've mentioned Rose a total of twice so far since her disappearance. So they keep focusing on Jane/Rafael's story, which I'm glad that they're showing them realistic couple problems after the honeymoon stage, but I'm not fully here for the romance and I'm not loving the storylines of their issues every single episode. It doesn't feel fresh, exciting or unpredictable. 

 

Andi better be connected to Sin Rostro in some way, or else I'll be annoyed. Yeah, I'm hoping for a possible cliche, just so we don't get another cliche (Jane gets jealous, fuel to the triangle).

 

I like that Michael could help Rogelio, just like Rogelio could help Michael move on. Even if it's not for long, it might be good. I just wish it wasn't with Shady Andi. It might just be my paranoia with her, though. But either she's getting hurt, or she's an evil bitch who is luring Michael into a Sin Rostro trap. I'm going with the latter, because she knows about Jane/Michael.

 

Rafael is definitely a mean drunk; he's not entirely wrong, but he's definitely mean when he drinks. I do think Jane keeps jumping to conclusions when things don't go her way. Rafael is busy; his hotel is floundering, he has to work with his ex wife, he's trying to move things forward with Jane and their relationship is starting to show its cracks, and he has to also think about the baby that's coming in the next few months. Of course he can't have his attention on Jane all the time, and up to recently, he's been an excellent support system for Jane and the baby. So for Jane to say that she feels like she's doing this all alone, after a few weeks of Rafael being busy? Come on, girl. Sometimes, things don't work out ideally. Hopefully, Jane learns to let go of some of her higher expectations. 

 

I liked Jane fantasizing about her future child (a daughter). I think it really helped put things in perspective and show her that stressing out isn't good. And thank god for Xo and Alba making up. The family had a sweet moment together.

 

Also, yep. Aaron Zaz is Roman Zaz. 

Edited September 3, 2015 by Lady Calypso

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ouch, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when Rogelio told Xiomara that he was getting there too. I had a friend who had a similar attitude. He said that he didn't want to lie and say, "I love you," just because someone said it to him first. That's great in theory but it caused strife with several of his girlfriends. More than one of his girlfriends kept saying it to him and he kept finding different things to say in response.

 

I love Rogelio and Michael's bromance. And of course Rogelio took Michael for mani/pedis.

 

Ha, I KNEW that Andie knew who Jane was! Dun dun duuuuuuuuun.

 

I totally felt for Jane in this episode. It's scary to think that all the childrearing responsibility will fall to you. Rafael can keep promising that they will figure things out but the fact of the matter is that if you can't even make time to talk about things like birthing plans and doulas while she's pregnant, how are you going to make time for diapers and a crying puking baby at 3am after it's born? I get that with his job, things are going to come up after hours, but you still need to figure out how to delegate those things and prioritize. There's nothing wrong with a nanny if both parents are open to it, but if Jane doesn't want one then it's not really a solution. And to me the larger issue is that he says he wants to be involved and he says he wants to be part of the process and then he doesn't read her emails or participate in whatever he's already agreed to do. You can't be flaky when you're a parent.

 

I also felt bad for Jane because there are so many well meaning mommies who think their way is the only way and everyone else is doing irreparable damage to their children. As Xiomara pointed out, she did all kinds of things that are considered dangerous or bad parenting and Jane turned out fine. I remember when I got engaged, one of my friends (who had gotten married the previous year) specifically told me not to look at any of the message boards at theknot because, as she put it, "those bitches will make you feel like shit if you don't have your invitations hand lettered by virgins and sealed shut by the tears of fairies." I'm pretty sure those are the women who turn into the bitchy moms who think you have to have a home birth with a doula and giving your kid any gluten is akin to poisoning him.