S04.E17: Hibernaculum

[Dobian]

Great episode.  The wesen-of-the-week story was fun.  Though I couldn't figure out how they were all half-naked in the cellar, but fully clothed when they chased our heros into the barn!  Speed dreassing?  I can dig evil Juliette.  Rosalee, you're awesome.  Monroe/Rosalee - best couple on the show.  Adalind just finding out in the last few weeks that she's pregnant and looks likes she's six months...LOL.  Juliette and Renard getting down and dirty, you knew that had to happen.  Of course we'll find out by the beginning of next season that she's carrying his baby just like Adalind is carrying Nick's.  Hijinks ensue.  I think the showrunner realized that from the first season the chemistry between Nick and Juliette was never quite right, and it's much more fun having her be a "biest" in bed with someone else.  What's up with the previews, is Hank going to wesen-out next?  LOL.  I hope they bring Trubel back before the season's done, that will be perfect.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Dobian

[marceline]

Enough with the flashbacks! I reached my tipping point in this episode. We're not morons, We can remember things from ep to ep.

 

 

Yeah. It borders on insulting.

 

The physics of this episode make Fringe & Walter Bishop look rigorously logical.

 

This stuff would've sent Walter running for the LSD.

[Commando Cody]

Sometime during the episode, I started to wonder if when all the body switching was going on, Adelind ended up with Juliette's' baby and Juliette got Adelind's bad attitude.  Either that or Hexenbiests are just inherently bitchy.  Adelind's mom was pretty cold.  Adelind didn't seem to care much that she was dead.  

 

As I was watching the beginning with just Nick and Hank, I realized how big a mistake it was to have Nick attached to anyone.  I never really thought much of Juliette as a character, now that they are supposedly dating in real life, it might be more difficult to get rid of her - even if they wanted to.  

 

I'm not sure what we are supposed to think about Juliette and Renard.  In the morning when he woke up alone, I thought it was just a hallucination.  It is hard to determine at this point now that Juliette has gone so far off the deep end.  I am hoping for hallucination, but I guess it can go either way.  

[TobinAlbers]

Alas, I'm still Team Adalind for some reason. At the very least I bought her turnaround on Diana and wanting to keep her daughter despite how she was initially all too willing to give her away. A villainess finding a small store of love for someone else does happen.

However not sure how they'll be able to have her do a heel turn and throw in with the good guys. NO one on Team Grimm likes her; even her baby daddy is okay with Juliette offing her so unless she gains an ally that's gonna be one tough road to hoe. Renard's contact Meisner seemed to have a small soft spot for her but he's been MIA since he left her with Kelly.

Is it wrong that the first thing I thought of when they showed Renard asleep in bed was 'Dang, Juliette must've worn him out! He didn't even show up for work!' Then I remembered he's also suffering from blood loss and Kenneth pounding his butt so I shouldn't give her too much credit.

My question is I get Juliette in her teenagers acting out deciding to bang Renard as another way to snub Nick (sleeping with his shady boss) but why did Renard decide to just go with it? Supposedly his previous attraction to Juliette was due to the spell and he hasn't lusted after her since. Was it that he was peeved he was beaten and angry and riled up and horny? I'm just thinking that the last thing Renard wants is a pissed off Grimm coming after him even if Nick and Juliette are 'on a break'.

Can this season be a Nick zombie fever dream? Or a Renard in a coma since last season having a nightmare coma dream and when he wakes up we'll be back to the beginning of the season?

[KaveDweller]

The WotW made no sense. I did not understand how they would freeze to death out in the open, but in a house they were ok? Huh?  

 

I thought it was that there was a person in the house, so if he was inside WOtW would have been able to pick up on her body heat.  If the house was empty it wouldn't have helped him.  Same with the one that got into the car with that woman (who was really stupid for letting a strange man in her car).

[shapeshifter]

...I'm not sure what we are supposed to think about Juliette and Renard.  In the morning when he woke up alone, I thought it was just a hallucination.  It is hard to determine at this point now that Juliette has gone so far off the deep end.  I am hoping for hallucination, but I guess it can go either way.

Me too. We don't have any definitive reason to believe it really did happen, do we? When he asked how she got in, and she replied, "You gave me a key," it sounded pretty dream-like to me.

[GaT]

My reasoning for Renard sleeping with Juliette has to be some kind of Hexie mating thing that is a little irresistible, combined with a woman taking her clothes off in his bedroom and throwing herself at him. I don't think Renard was considering Nick in that moment at all. 

Except Renard isn't a Hexenbeist, he's a Zauberbiest, that's why he needed Juliette's blood to open the book, it would only open for a Hexenbeist.

[Texasmom1970]

Best things about this episode to me Wu (always awesome), Rosalee and Monroe they are too sweet together, Renard shirtless, and all the guys out working the case when they found the hibernaculum (sp).

The bad what was Renard and Juliette hooking up hope that was a hallucination, Nick being all weepy over Juliette, and everything Juliette and Adalind. Juliette and Adalind can fight to the death, all their hissy fits, screeching and temper tantrums give me a migraine!

[ottilie]

I couldn't guess whether Renard was hallucinating that he was going to hell - which could influence his behavior in the next episode, or whether a devil claw actually was reaching for him.

 

Anyway, where is his mother? What is she busy doing. How come everyone else seems to have such a negative response to Juliette becoming a witch, when they worked with Renard's hexenbiest mother, and him as a zauberbiest, and they didn't recoil in horror. Only Adalind and her mother were the real ones they had problems with.

 Hexenbiests do seem to have more power than any wesen because they can create wesen by casting spells.

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought Renard and Juliette did sleep together.  When he woke up, he every so briefly looked over to the other side of the bed, which looked slept in, and seemed relieved to find it empty.

[shapeshifter]

I thought Renard and Juliette did sleep together.  When he woke up, he every so briefly looked over to the other side of the bed, which looked slept in, and seemed relieved to find it empty.

Yes, but I'm still hoping he was relieved to find it empty because it was a dream/nightmare.

[Commando Cody]

I guess it is a nice theory that Renard is still in the hospital and that's why he's still bleeding.  Reality keeps bleeding through.  Just wishful thinking.  Maybe his mom is still there in the hospital with him - trying to save his life.  So far everything his mom has done has had strange side effects.  

[Zahdii]

...Relieved that freaking Juliette isn't a freaking hexenbiest and running around shrieking and blaming and trying to kill a pregnant woman...

 

Actually, I don't think Juliette knows that Adalind is pregnant.  When she saw Adalind, A was wearing a loose coat that hid her baby bump.  Adalind wasn't even looking at maternity wear at that point, she was looking at a regular dress.

 

That will be very interesting when the gang learns of Adalind's second pregnancy.  I wonder how many people will be looking at Adalind stomach, looking at Nick, and counting backwards in their head to Rosalee and Monroe's wedding.

[shapeshifter]

 

I thought Renard and Juliette did sleep together. When he woke up, he every so briefly looked over to the other side of the bed, which looked slept in, and seemed relieved to find it empty.

I am with you on this. I think anything else is theory...

If this is some Renard fevered dream, I'll be equal parts relieved and pissed.

Relieved that freaking Juliette isn't a freaking hexenbiest and running around shrieking and blaming and trying to kill a pregnant woman.

But pissed off because we've got a season of stuff happening that didn't mean anything.

It's a toss-up....

Just to be clear, my theory:

Yes, but I'm still hoping he was relieved to find it empty because it was a dream/nightmare.

--just applies to the sexy times that we saw in this episode being a dream, not the whole hexenbiest arc--unfortunately.

I agree that it would be even worse to find out that we suffered through a whole season of this only to learn it never happened.

[Prevailing Wind]

I keep hoping Renard will awaken to find Bobby Ewing in the shower.

[blueray]

Well, it could get worse if Juliette becomes pregnant by Renard. There are only so many babies one show can support.  Mason and Rosalie would make the best parents, but I don't think I could face Rosalie getting pregnant at the same time. At some point, it becomes a sad joke. 

Mason? Do you mean Monroe? Yeah, they would be good parents but not at this point in the show.

[ljp]

I'm getting really tired of the Adeline and Juliette bitchy whinny women story hour. This episode would have been better without. The idea of cold blooded Wesson was pretty cool and the idea of hibernation was cool. I feel like if this was first season, it could totally have been a let's save these guys by getting them to the hibernarium thing. Find out what they need and rescue them. At least 2 of 3. I mean they weren't inherently evil, natural self preservation instincts kicked in. I didn't get the sense they wanted to kill people. What happened to the idea that nick is a different type of Grimm who helps people. This story could have been So much better.

And I'm really tired of Adeline and Juliette. What happened to the super powerful baby thing? I know they've got her hidden offscreen, but this endless search is frustrating. They just discussed nicks mother for like the 1 billionth episode instead of showing us anything about her and the baby again with the lure her back idea. Have the baby magically age or something with a Wesson different life cycle growth thing and let's get to the interesting part. Isn't this baby supposed to change things or something? We have one baby we don't need another. Unless the half siblings are supposed to become mortal enemies one is good and one is bad kind of thing. This just feels like it's not actually going anywhere at this point.

Taking my Juliette frustrations to her thread.

[Enigma X]

I just finished watching this episode. My verdict on Kenneth is that I don't like the character but not in the way that I think that I am supposed to dislike him. I can do without the character.

[caseylane]

In the beginning I didn't mind the Royals story. It was Renard working behind the scenes trying to build up his power base. Maybe set up his own little kingdom in Portland. I found that interesting. Now it's just the Royals coming to his turf and butting in, trying to get the baby and annoying anyone they can.

 

I think the best thing for this show would be for the entire writing staff to watch the first season and capture what made this show special. And kill Juliette, that would be a win all around. Even if Nick an Adalind became angry ex's sharing custody of a baby.

[Blue Plastic]

I was happy to see the flashback of Aunt Marie reminding Nick not to stay with Juliette. I wanted him to remember that. I have no complaints about the flashbacks and yes, way more complaints about the enormous leaps of logic and plot holes and forgetting the history of the characters they created.

I thought that flashback was a nice touch.  It's one of the only things that IMO counts as "good" storytelling in this "Juliette is a Hexie" arc because so far they have hopelessly mangled the rest of it and turned Juliette into a petulant teenager instead of using this huge life change to really dig into the characters.  Really anyone with two brain cells to rub together could have told Nick that something bad could happen to his girlfriend if they tried to stay together, but I thought the flashback did a good job of pulling from the history of the show and demonstrating that Nick knew the dangers, tried to defy them and is now paying the price.

 

I'm not blaming only him, BTW, because Juliette has also known about the dangers for a while now and agreed to stay with Nick so her placing all the blame on Nick and company is BS.

[OtterMommy]

I thought Renard and Juliette did sleep together.  When he woke up, he every so briefly looked over to the other side of the bed, which looked slept in, and seemed relieved to find it empty.

 

I rewatched this episode this morning and paid attention to this scene.  The way I read it was that we woke up, looked over the other side of the bed (that looked made to me) and was relieved that the Juliette encounter was a dream.  But then there was his vision of the great beyond....so....

 

Honestly, I don't know if they slept together but, at this point, I don't care.  The writers, directors, and producers should be very proud about how quickly they got this viewer to switch from being a Juliette defender to a Juliette hater.  I do, however, like Renard so I would like his visions and phantom bleeding to stop---and I'd really like him to kick pretty boy all the way back to Vienna (or New Zealand...)

[Free]

I just finished watching this episode. My verdict on Kenneth is that I don't like the character but not in the way that I think that I am supposed to dislike him. I can do without the character.

 

You're right, it doesn't help that the writers already got rid of previous interchangeable members, so why are we supposed to care about this guy or about any of this Royals stuff that's been almost completely disconnected from the main characters?

[tennisgurl]

Honestly Juliette...is this that big of a deal? I mean, clearly being a Hexienbeast is not great, and being changed into something like that would be a disturbing experience, but is it worth all this drama? I mean, does she have to be in her "hag face" all the time? Dont think so. She gets powers, plus no crappy side affects like last weeks Wessen, and most of the non murderous Wessen we have seen live normal lives, so...whats the big deal? And how the hell is this anyones fault beyond Adeline? 

 

I did like the MOTW. Although, why did all the sleeping Wessen run after them? They just wanted this one guy, is he a relative they are all SUPER loyal to? 

 

Monroe and Rosalie are the best. Monroe still dealing with almost dying horribly is pretty understandable, and I lobe his clock fixing glasses.

 

I want a scene where the gang go to a waterfall for a picnic or something, and they see the banjo playing Wessen, just sitting there playing away, and he just waves cheerfully at them. No other explanation. 

[Happytobehere]

If only Grimm had the balls Sleepy Hollow did and was willing to kill off the character that was hated by most of the fans. Bitsie would be going on auditions right now.

OMG! I was just going to post how the writers have allowed the Juliette and Adalind characters to become their Katrina ala Sleepy Hollow, the only difference being they have spread the nightmarish, poorly acted character over two roles, thereby making their titanic like roles on the show a little less obvious and with a slower leak time. I have long felt that both Juliette and Adalind have outlived their usefulness and are now the embodiment of what is wrong with the show.

[Slovenly Muse]

Ok, I just caught up on this episode, and I am really struggling to put together the WotW story. I don't think it has ever been clearer that Nick has no structure in place to deal with Wessen crimes within circumstances not considered by human laws. I mean, what the hell was that?!

 

As far as I can figure, the three WotW brothers (not violent criminals, the one they were after didn't have anything worse than "drunk and disorderly" on his record) were travelling together to their hibernaculum where they could safely pass the cold season without dying. On the way their car broke down, and they found themselves in the IMMEDIATELY life-threatening situation of being about to freeze to death if they did not make it to their hibernaculum quickly. One of them killed a woman, but it wasn't enough to sustain him and he died in prison. The other attacked a nurse and died in the process. The third killed a cabbie and used the car to make it to safety.

 

Now, I'm not saying these murders were justified, because no freaking way. But there is a difference between killing to ensure your own survival when you are in immediate danger of death, and killing because you want to hurt somebody. Team Grimm didn't seem to consider that at all. As far as I can tell, their plan when they found the hibernaculum was to isolate Sven (who killed the cabbie) and remove him from the group, KNOWING that without the warmth of the hibernaculum he would freeze to death like his brothers. Were they going to arrest him and put him in the position of needing to kill again or be the second body found frozen solid in a holding cell? Am I wrong, or did they not know that by trying to arrest him and take him away from the farm they would be sentencing him to death? WHAT WAS THEIR PLAN?! Because sure enough, when he WAS removed from the group, he DID freeze to death, and that is directly the fault of Team Grimm. And then they just left him in the cab for some innocent person to find? WHAT THE HELL, NICK?!

 

I can't figure out why pulling this guy away from the thing he needed to stay alive was the plan. They could have said that he skipped town, then set up a camera in the hibernaculum, or planted a tracking device on him while he was sleeping, and used it to monitor him so they could return and arrest him when the "hibernaculating" was over and the WotW were all waking up to go their separate ways, and Sven could be arrested and tried without risk to his own life. As it is, they just straight-up killed that guy! Did I miss something? Am I wrong?

 

I can't even think about the Juliette stuff, or the Adalind ridiculousness, or anything else at this point. Hurry up and bring back Trubel, so I can enjoy this show again.

[OtterMommy]

I did like the MOTW. Although, why did all the sleeping Wessen run after them? They just wanted this one guy, is he a relative they are all SUPER loyal to? 

 

I want a scene where the gang go to a waterfall for a picnic or something, and they see the banjo playing Wessen, just sitting there playing away, and he just waves cheerfully at them. No other explanation. 

 

I think the sleeping Wesen chasing them was because they had been hibernating and not a bit too happy about being woken up.  After all, the guy they were after didn't know he was the one they wanted.  And, Monroe warned them about 5 seconds earlier about waking a creature up from hibernation.

 

And yes, the fiddle playing Wesen scene you just described would be simply awesome.

[Enigma X]

Slovenly Mouse, I can understand Nick and Hank's actions more if they had some remorse. Like you said, the WotW were shown to have committed their crimes out of a need to survive. As much as some characters bother me (not as much as most of the fandom is bothered by characters that shall not be spoken), I have more of a problem with the show and characters when our heroes don't empathize with some of the wesen that I feel deserve as much.

[Slovenly Muse]

You said it, Enigma X. But it's not even really about the remorse or lack of empathy. From what I can tell, Nick and company went to the farm with the intention of extracting Sven from the hibernaculum, KNOWING that he would freeze to death soon afterward. They had one brother turn into a corpsicle in their holding cell, and their plan to deal with the third brother was to do EXACTLY the same thing and let him die in exactly the same way? I did not understand that at all. They knew that pulling him out of that place would kill him, so their plan from the start was to straight-up sentence him to death. I mean, at least with the gender-swapping wessen they acknowledged that they were committing a necessary evil and seemed unhappy about it. This time, the consequences were even worse, and it was just like business as usual. Talk about cold-blooded! They killed Sven the same way he killed that cabbie, only he had the context of doing it to save his own life!

 

I don't even know what to make of this. This goes so far beyond lazy or poor writing. There was no reason things had to happen that way.

[shapeshifter]

...As far as I can figure, the three WotW brothers (not violent criminals, the one they were after didn't have anything worse than "drunk and disorderly" on his record) were travelling together to their hibernaculum where they could safely pass the cold season without dying. On the way their car broke down, and they found themselves in the IMMEDIATELY life-threatening situation of being about to freeze to death if they did not make it to their hibernaculum quickly. One of them killed a woman, but it wasn't enough to sustain him and he died in prison. The other attacked a nurse and died in the process. The third killed a cabbie and used the car to make it to safety.

 

Now, I'm not saying these murders were justified, because no freaking way. But there is a difference between killing to ensure your own survival when you are in immediate danger of death, and killing because you want to hurt somebody. Team Grimm didn't seem to consider that at all. As far as I can tell, their plan when they found the hibernaculum was to isolate Sven (who killed the cabbie) and remove him from the group, KNOWING that without the warmth of the hibernaculum he would freeze to death like his brothers. Were they going to arrest him and put him in the position of needing to kill again or be the second body found frozen solid in a holding cell?

...?!

...They could have said that he skipped town, then set up a camera in the hibernaculum, or planted a tracking device on him while he was sleeping, and used it to monitor him so they could return and arrest him when the "hibernaculating" was over...

While reading this, I was thinking that if I were Nick, I would've put a reminder on my Outlook Calendar for Ground Hog Day that would say "Check hybernaculum" and set an alert for a week before.

But then I realized that in this version of Portland, time is very unpredictible, so that probably wouldn't work.

[OtterMommy]

You said it, Enigma X. But it's not even really about the remorse or lack of empathy. From what I can tell, Nick and company went to the farm with the intention of extracting Sven from the hibernaculum, KNOWING that he would freeze to death soon afterward. They had one brother turn into a corpsicle in their holding cell, and their plan to deal with the third brother was to do EXACTLY the same thing and let him die in exactly the same way? I did not understand that at all. They knew that pulling him out of that place would kill him, so their plan from the start was to straight-up sentence him to death. I mean, at least with the gender-swapping wessen they acknowledged that they were committing a necessary evil and seemed unhappy about it. This time, the consequences were even worse, and it was just like business as usual. Talk about cold-blooded! They killed Sven the same way he killed that cabbie, only he had the context of doing it to save his own life!

 

This reminds me of the mermaid episode--Renard had Nick and Hank put the two sisters in a holding cell, knowing that they would dry out and die, in order to get a confession (not even necessarily from them).  Hank or Nick, I can't remember which one, protested saying that the girls would die but Renard said, "That's their problem."  I think it is the police mindset to bring in the alleged criminal, even if it means death for the accused.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more messed up it is. Why were Nick and company so ok with just letting this guy die? What was their plan? Pull him out of the circle...and let him freeze to death? Just like that? We have established that Wessen are humans, who deserve to get a trial and everything right? Granted, I don't know how a defense of "I killed the cab driver to feed off his heat or I would freeze to death" would do, but its still better than just laughingly letting him die without a thought! 

 

And they seriously only had like, five Gundersons up north? There were more than that in an episode of Fargo (maybe not exactly, but you know what I mean)!

[OtterMommy]

And they seriously only had like, five Gundersons up north? There were more than that in an episode of Fargo (maybe not exactly, but you know what I mean)!

 

Yep, the main character of Fargo (the movie) was Margie Gunderson, and her husband was Mr. Gunderson, and they were expecting a baby..there's 3 right there.  

I checked when I re-watched this episode and what Wu says is that the Dickinson PD says there are 3 people in the state of North Dakota named Gunderson with drivers licenses--and it was the 3 brothers in question.  Really?  I've spent a fair amount of time in ND (I have family there) and Gunderson/Gundersen is an incredibly common name.  I wish the writers had put a bit more thought into that when choosing a name.  I mean, there are a lot of "strange to US ears" Norwegian surnames they could have used.

 

I did like this episode in many ways, but I get a feeling that the WotW idea had been sitting in a drawer and was pulled out now because they needed some kind of filler.  As was pointed out, if the Varme Tyv had to go hibernate for Winter, spring is not the time to do so.  Yes, yes...I know...Grimm Time.  But, really, Grimm Time needs to get its act together.  We have snake people setting off for their winter hibernations in April and an 11th months pregnant (and still in her 2nd trimester) hexenbiest.  Do the powers that be not realize that their viewers can read calendars?

[OtterMommy]

I'll comment more later, but before I forgot I wanted to mention that I had a good chuckle from the inventory scene. The two alkaloid-containing plants Rosalee casually mentioned as out of stock- banisteriopsis caapi and syrian rue- happen to be plants that are used in preparations of the extremely potent shamanic brew ayahuasca.

This medicine used by tribes along the Amazon basin contains as a natural ingredient the molecule dimethyltryptamine (DMT), which is considered the most powerful hallucinogen known to humankind. The effects (er, from what I've heard people say :) ) include transporting instantly to another dimension where you meet strange alien creatures.

It seems kind of fitting for this show... :)

 

Good catch...

from the promo and sneak peak for next week's episodes, these may be coming into play...

[jbrecken]

As soon as the first guy froze that lady, Paula Abdul started singing "Cold Hearted" in my head and kept it up for the whole show.

[Lugal]

I did like the touch in this one with the email from Trubel about how the royals seemed to have dropped her and Josh.  Their resources aren't infinite.

 

As for next week

The Mishipeshu is an Algonquian myth, the Underwater Panther who is a guardian to the underworld.  It would be interesting to see if the ayahuasca figures in.

[shapeshifter]

I did like the touch in this one with the email from Trubel...

Raise your hand (or paw) if you are hoping this hints at Trubel showing up long enough to bleed on Juliette to de-biest her.

[OakGoblinFly]

I don't like mopey "it's all my fault" Nick --- can we, pretty please, have the return of competent, learning to balance his Grimm-ness with being a cop Nick?  

 

I wanted to reach through my television and throttle Juliette with the "Hang on to your hats!"  and "There's more than enough blame to go around!" ---- how about taking some personal responsibility for what happened; you were told there could be side effects, instead of lashing out at everyone who can/wants to help, how about you take a breath and act like a mature adult.  Yes, turning into a creature is scary - everyone gets that, that's no reason to act like a total raging bitch.

 

There are too many story lines (case of the week, Juliette changing into a Hexibiest, the new prince, Adalind's baby drama, the royals, Nick's angst) for the show to be engaging and enjoyable.  Please go back to the case of the week and a small "B" plot arc - I feel like we've been dealing with baby drama and the royal plot for two seasons.

[OakGoblinFly]

The rest of the season is going to be Juliette focused, & I'm just not interested in her. I'm worried that after they have every episode being "OMG, Juliette is a Hexenbeist!", they'll have her cured, & next season will be all "OMG, I'm so sorry I was a bitch when I was a Hexenbeist!" & we'll end up with another season all about Juliette.

 

Then there be some other catastrophe to befall her (which she'll blame everyone else for) and it's another season of Nick trying to make it up to her when it isn't his fault.  It feels like the show has become Juilette/Adalind-centric and I don't like it one bit.

[OakGoblinFly]

I'm not going to say a lot about Bitsie T can't act, at least in this role, because even her supporters haven't been very active recently.

 

The character of Juliette does seem to be acting like a petulant teen, and it could be because hexenbiests are naturally narcissistic blame-shifters who feel superior to others, enjoy messing with other people, and have powers unlike anyone else so they are able to really screw up other peoples lives.  At least that's the hexenbiests that we've been shown so far.  So Juliette could be acting out as a result of an overriding personality trait that hexenbiests have.

 

 

But is that really true?  The only Hexenbiest we've seen are Adalind (who does meet this description), Henrietta, and Elizabeth   Other than being secretive, I don't think Henrietta or Elizabeth fit this description.  Honestly, I think the brattiness is all Juliette; perhaps the Hexenbiest amplifies inherent traits and does't change personality. 

[SmithW6079]

...you were told there could be side effects

Well, there is a big difference between "might cause insomnia" and "might cause you to become a hideous monster with magical powers."

I thought the freezer people plot was kind of silly, and Nick and the boys acting like the Keystone Kops didn't help.

I want to learn more about Prince Kenneth. For starters, he's more "hands-on" (literally) than the othere's royals we've seen. And why is he so physically strong? That seemed almost supernatural.

Edited April 13, 2015 by SmithW6079

[OakGoblinFly]

I guess it is a nice theory that Renard is still in the hospital and that's why he's still bleeding.  Reality keeps bleeding through.  Just wishful thinking.  Maybe his mom is still there in the hospital with him - trying to save his life.  So far everything his mom has done has had strange side effects.  

 

 

Ooooh, if that's the case maybe this whole season didn't happen (everything after he was shot) and we don't have to deal with baby drama and Juliette's snowflake-special-hexenbiest crap.

 

Okay, maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.   :-/

[Lii]

 

Anyway, where is his mother? What is she busy doing. How come everyone else seems to have such a negative response to Juliette becoming a witch, when they worked with Renard's hexenbiest mother, and him as a zauberbiest, and they didn't recoil in horror.

  

I don't think anyone had a problem with Juliette being a hexenbiest so much as they had a problem with Juliette being a raging bitch. The only time anyone showed a specific negative response was an initial shock response to her purposefully shock-wogeing them for attention.

Actually, I don't think Juliette knows that Adalind is pregnant.  When she saw Adalind, A was wearing a loose coat that hid her baby bump.

WUT ADALIND IS A IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW A IS A HEXENBIEST GUYS THAT'S HOW SHE DOES IT ><

[OtterMommy]

I don't think anyone had a problem with Juliette being a hexenbiest so much as they had a problem with Juliette being a raging bitch. The only time anyone showed a specific negative response was an initial shock response to her purposefully shock-wogeing them for attention.

 

Word.

 

I actually thought turning Juliette into a Hexenbiest was an interesting twist.  What has happened after that has been unbearable.

 

Until recently, I was a Juliette fan, but that's all gone now. However, I could actually stand Juliette as the Big Bad if the writers have the cajones to actually commit to that--to have Nick truly end the relationship (and, PLEASE quit whining about everything is his fault) and let Juliette just be an evil villain, not an angsty teenager.  Besides, they've written her such that I don't think they could ever "return" her to her pre-Hexen state.  Just bite the bullet and make her evil.

 

I do think it will be interesting to see how Monroe and Rosalee handle this now that the initial shock has past.  Will they try to continue to have some sort of relationship with her or will they see her as an enemy as well?  

[spaulding]

WOTW:

If huge groups of them just lived together, the problem would be solved. No driving to gather together, etc.

 

Also what kind of morons are they that they had to wait until the mob following them started freezing to death to be all "well we only wanted the murderer guy, the rest are innocent". A) how do they know none of the others killed anybody on the way?

 

Those wesen were stupid.  They need to live near each other because they hibernaculate yearly.  Monroe said that they aren't a violent type of wesen.

 

I love Monroe and Rosalee.  They have the best relationship on this show.  I am never tired or bored of their calm, positive, drama-free relationship.  (The Nick-Hank relationship is a close second.)

 

I still hate the Royals storyline.  Now, Renard is further being dragged into it.  Once upon a time, Renard was a BAMF who shot his own cousin.  Now, he's vulnerable and bleeding; and his storyline is still vague.  Shirtless rage Renard >> shirtless bleeding Renard.  (At least he no longer has a relationship with his phone.)

 

By the way, does the king of the Royals, verrat, or whatever have a relationship with Renard?  I thought that he didn't care because Renard is wesen and is his illegitimate son.  Kenneth mentioned "another dead son" regarding the Renard-king relatonship.

Get rid of Kenneth.  At least Alexis Denisoff was campy and fun as Victor. 

 

I hate how vulnerable and stupid Adalind continues to be.  I blame the writers.  Apparently, she can't be a strong, evil hexenbiest because Special Snowflake Juliette has to be the alpha female of the show. 
 

I've been sick of Nick since S2.  He's now an hero full of angst.  I hate when a show is all about the relationship.  This show used to be a cop procedural with a fairy tale background.  Now, it's all about relationships.  Nick-Juliette.  Monroe-Rosalee. 

 

[The Big Bang Theory used to be about science and about nerds navigating in a world they can't relate.  That show is now all about relationships.  I hate that Grimm is down that path.  Ugh.]

 

I agree Juliette does not know Adalind is pregnant. I just mean that it doesn't matter, because Juliette has seriously tried to kill someone who was not attacking her or anyone else. She's officially crossed the line.

 

Cop Nick doesn't follow procedure anymore.  He had no problem with putting a body in a cab and calling it a day.  Now, Juliette is trying to kill Adalind.  I bet that Nick is going to try really hard to look the other way because it's tru luv.

 

And Juliette did freakin' cross the line.  The writers aren't doing Special Snowflake Juliette any favors.  Attempted murder doesn't make her endearing.  Being a bratty teenager doesn't make her endearing--or make her actions excusable.

 

3. NOW Nick is remembering Aunt Marie's words? Dude, you could have saved me seasons of aggravation if you'd listened then.

 

The writers want a Grimm-wesen relationship, and they're assuming that it has to be full of drama.  Aunt Marie and Farley Kolt were engaged before she left to raise Nick.  I'm more interested in their relationship than Nick's Grimm-hexenbiest relationship.

 

Juliette blames everybody for her wesen situation.  She hates being a hexenbiest, but she likes the powers.  LIke it or hate it.  Shit or get off the pot.  She knows that she has the power to woge, right?  Nick never has to see her hexenface.

 

By the way, is Juliette going to blame herself for her part in the babyknapping of Diana?  She had an active role it in.  The same way that she had an active role in taking a bong hit from the Sorting Hat.

[anarchyangel84]

Oh dear. But good point! I haven't seen them so much as snap a single picture of anything there.

I know it's off topic- but you're right. Nick hasn't made a single effort to try to duplicate anything, I know it would hurt to lose all the weapons- but the books are important & he could take the potions/oils/whatever those are to Rosalee at the spice shop. I'll bet she could figure them out if they don't have a label & duplicate them. And those keys.... They're still in there right? He NEEDS to move it somewhere Juliette wouldn't think to look.

[anarchyangel84]

•• About Juliette & the way she's acting:: I don't like it and I hate that she's a Hexenbiest. But in a way, she has a reason to be bitchy. She was a normal person with a normal job & a normal boyfriend in a normal home. Then comes Aunt Marie & she's being attacked in that home & that job & nothing's normal again. She went into a coma & lost her memory & then finds out some people aren't people at all- they're these creature looking things that usually only her boyfriend can see. Now when she looks in the mirror, she's reminded of all of that. She's a freaking Hexenbiest! That alone is enough to make you hate everyone & everything.

•• I know that she stayed with Nick and she kind of knew that bad things would probably continue happening. But she never thought (neither did I) that she would become what she did on the outside. So why wouldn't she be just as ugly on the inside?

[Zahdii]

About leaving the frozen body in the cab, I think the audience was supposed to chuckle over it, but I thought it was stupid.  Driving a stolen cab into a major city (ever hear of security cameras?) and then posing a frozen solid body behind the wheel is pretty stupid.  And it's another strange thing for the poor ME to figure out.  At this point they need to get an ME who is a wesen.  Generations of hiding from the rest of us would help the ME come up with cover ups for some of those odd deaths Portland is always having.

 

Anyway, the cab should have been driven into some woods at a high elevation and left to be found by someone later.  Drain the gas out so it looks like the thief ran out of gas and took off on foot.  The body would be found in a ravine some distance from the car and should have been thawed by then and starting to decompose.  The ME will be able to rule it "death by exposure".

[Rina99]

I know that she stayed with Nick and she kind of knew that bad things would probably continue happening. But she never thought (neither did I) that she would become what she did on the outside.

 

 

Juliette herself experienced the side effects of Adalind's spell.  She's spent well over a year watching how "side effects" can affect each of them. I'm sorry, the "poor Juliette is just caught up in things" excuse simply doesn't work anymore.  

 

And where the show really dropped the ball for me was suddenly trying to force this "Hexenbiests are just crazy bitches, yo" thing when, from my own observations, this simply isn't the case.  And they've not been successful in selling me the idea that Juliette is super bitchy because she's a "made" hexenbiest, as opposed to it just being her own personality being amplified.  That's a failure of both the writing and the acting.  If it were Rosalee, I'd be feeling awful for both her AND Monroe, which is what I'm sure the writers want, but that's not happening.  I just hate Juliette now more than I ever have before.  All I can focus on is that this just might be the season where TWO characters that I felt were dragging down shows that I liked might get killed off, and that's the only thing bringing me any sort of happiness about this story line.  

 

I was thrilled that Nick wasn't the angsty, dark  antihero. And now? It's worse! He's a weepy, sad, pathetic doormat.

 

 

I remember commenting during Season 1 how relieved I was that they hadn't chosen the angsty route with Nick's character.  It's like since then, they've deliberately gone out of their way to mess up what was good and unique in how they were handling the show.  I don't know if the writers have changed, or if it's the clear lack of knowing what the hell they want to do from week to week, or what, but I'm not happy with it.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Rina99

[Clanstarling]

Can this season be a Nick zombie fever dream? Or a Renard in a coma since last season having a nightmare coma dream and when he wakes up we'll be back to the beginning of the season?

Oh, now Renard in a coma is an interesting thought...

 

Except Renard isn't a Hexenbeist, he's a Zauberbiest, that's why he needed Juliette's blood to open the book, it would only open for a Hexenbeist.

As I understand it (and as the German words seem to imply) Zauberbiests seem to be the male version of Hexenbiests (since, IIRC, Renard's father was a Royal and not a Wesen at all, he got "it" from his mother - a Hexenbiest). Somehow I got the feeling that as a result of his "mixed" blood, he's not as powerful as he could be. In any case - when the sex scene "started", I first thought it was supposed to indicate some sort of healing process (kind of like the way succubi healed in "Lost Girl"). 

 

Adalind seems more hapless than anything else - but as I recall, she never was a particularly strong or skilled Hexenbiest. She seems more comic relief these days.

 

Juliette going from a whiny brat to casual murderer (thwarted, but still...) and back again (it's all your fault!) just amped up my negative feelings about what they're doing with her character. I never particularly cared for her, but this could have been an interesting plot development.

 

I've been trying to remember - when Renard's Mom said there'd be side effects - did anyone actually ask what they would be? I don't think so.

Edited April 15, 2015 by clanstarling

[theatremouse]

I've been trying to remember - when Renard's Mom said there'd be side effects - did anyone actually ask what they would be? I don't think so.

I don't think they asked, but it doesn't actually bother me (for once). The way she said it was in a tone/manner that sort of implied to me at the time something to the effect of weird shit can happen and I have vague ideas of what but can't even really tell you specifically. Possibly even swap "can't" for "won't". Anyway, I thought she presented it in a manner that did not suggest inquiring for additional detail would be a fruitful endeavor and thus they had to proceed based on their own willingness to accept the unknown-and-possibly-scary consequences or not. And did. And now regret it. It does piss me off how they're both all whiny about it. It's both their fault. Edited April 16, 2015 by theatremouse