S01.E01: Three Card Trick

[Meredith Quill]

Series Blurb:

 

England in the 1520s is a heartbeat from disaster. If the King dies without a male heir, the country could be destroyed by civil war. Henry VIII wants to annul his marriage of twenty years and marry Anne Boleyn. The Pope and most of Europe oppose him. Into this impass steps Thomas Cromwell: a wholly original man, a charmer, and a bully, both idealist and opportunist, astute in reading people, and implacable in his ambition. But Henry is volatile: one day tender, one day murderous. Cromwell helps him break the opposition, but what will be the price of his triumph?

 

 

Episode Synopsis:

 

Lacking a male heir, the King is desperate to annul his marriage to Katherine of Aragon.

[Meredith Quill]

This was a very (literally at times) dark opening I thought; it was so sad when Cromwell's wife and daughters died. I thought the acting and production values were very good and I'm intrigued enough to come back for seconds next week!

[kieyra]

Unfortunately I am obsessed with the books to an unhealthy degree, so take any negativity with a grain of salt.

I am somewhat disappointed in Mark Rylance's flat affect and constant hangdog expression. And mumbling. Book-Cromwell was restrained, but he was also full of humor and very articulate. Book-Liz was also good-humored, not the nag/worrier.

And yeah, the first episode was fairly dreary. I worry that they will have lost viewers who gave up when there was no Henry or Anne Boleyn by the first half. I understand why they set it up this way--things *are* pretty dire right now. But I'm not sure viewers have a reason to root for Cromwell yet. I'd be interested to know how "unsullied" feel about it.

Having said that--they're using a fair amount of book dialogue, and that makes me happy. They're using the non-linear time jumps from the book, and while I expect that'll throw some people off, it's something I enjoyed, so that makes me happy too. Walter (Cromwell's father) was suitably awful. I liked the casting of Rafe. And as apprehensive as I was about Damian Lewis, he and Rylance have great chemistry; Rylance actually emotes in those scenes. Great casting for Anne, too.

Episode two is out in the wild, and (very mild spoiler)

it looks like the tone may lighten a bit, and I'm hoping to see a few more facial expressions from Rylance. For now I can't help but feel he was miscast, but I'm in this for the long haul.

Edit: I'd encourage people to stick it out to episode two, it "feels" much more like the books and the actors have warmed up a bit.

Edited January 22, 2015 by kieyra

[Glade]

I missed seeing James Frain (who played Cromwell in The Tudors) but otherwise thought this was really well written and done.  I enjoyed that the focus was developing characters that aren't the royal family.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Glade

[TudorQueen]

I, too, miss James Frain. The Tudors provided a surprisingly balanced and nuanced portrait of Cromwell (most films and tv present him as a ruthless total villain), and Frain totally succeeded in inhabiting him. I don't like Rylance as an actor (he has a few Tony awards and I hate most of his speeches and his 'too crazy for the room' affect and have not been impressed by his acting. He seems a little better here, and is at least trying to convey a character, and I do appreciate that they're using actual dialogue from the books. Agree that the other major casting is impressive. Jonathan Pryce as Wolsey!!!!

[kieyra]

I also have to give Claire Foy credit for making Anne her own. Natalie Dormer has been Anne Boleyn for me for a long time, and CF succeeds in making me forget that ... in a way that Rylance, unfortunately, does not make me forget James Frain. Can't help but wonder what Hilary Mantel thinks of Rylance. 

[Primetimer]

Should you care enough about history to voluntarily spend time with Thomas Cromwell, Cardinal Wolsey, and Henry VIII?

Read the story

[Pippin]

I adore the books (have them both) and so am looking forward to this series. Especially looking forward to the Thomas Moore/Cromwell interactions!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Just realized that Mark Rylance played Anne's father in The Other Boleyn Girl.

Edited April 7, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[LittleIggy]

I've read so many non-fiction books about Harry and his wives, and seen several movies and TV shows about the subject too (the classic 1970s "Six Wives of Henry the VII" being the best. Don't get me started on the excrable "Tudors"), that I hesitated about watching this. I watched half of it, then turned it off. Jonathan Pryce was great as usual, but nothing else grabbed me.

[Starchild]

I love British drama. I am smart and patient and can sit through just about anything. But this was really boring. I'm on the fence about continuing.

[kaygeeret]

I was drawn in by the casting of Damien Lewis whom I love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Then I read about others in the cast and the provenance of the script.  Intriguing.

 

Then I read the reviews.  More intriguing.

 

The first epi was dark but also compelling and fascinating to me.  I have been to Ireland many times and Cromwell is a curse word - if you have seen the endless churches "destroyed by Cromwell" you will understand.

 

But the other side of him, the happy family man, only to lose the family is devastating.  We often forget how lucky we are to have vaccines and antibiotics in our age.

 

I do wonder about the oldest kid, but I guess we will find out.

 

As you can tell, I come to the series a neophyte having no knowledge of the books before this - and I read - A LOT!

 

So I am excited to see the entire series as this is a part of history I am vaguely aware of but have little real understanding of.

 

In for the series if only to get a Damien Lewis fix, but I have high hopes it will be more than that!

[Yokosmom]

I believe that the Cromwell so hated in Ireland is Oliver Cromwell, who came much later. Haven't read the books yet, so the deaths of his children as well as his wife was a real shock.

Agree that the show is slow paced so far, but it kept my interest (at least until the power went out in my area--I missed the last 30 minutes or so).

All the indoor scenes are dark, but that is true to the era. I read somewhere that there was more light in one lightbulb than what you could get from multiple candles in a typical home throughout much of history.

I'm not sure if modern doctors have ever figured out what "the sweats" actually was. One of those horrible diseases where you are fine in the morning and dead by supper.

[Constantinople]

And yeah, the first episode was fairly dreary. I worry that they will have lost viewers who gave up when there was no Henry or Anne Boleyn by the first half. I understand why they set it up this way--things *are* pretty dire right now. But I'm not sure viewers have a reason to root for Cromwell yet. I'd be interested to know how "unsullied" feel about it...

...They're using the non-linear time jumps from the book, and while I expect that'll throw some people off, it's something I enjoyed, so that makes me happy too.

The problem wasn't, in my opinion, when Henry & Anne first showed-up. I wasn't even particularly concerned if they showed-up at all in this episode.

The problem was a sluggish pace with a ping-pong ball chronology that went back and forth. That might have worked in the books -- I don't know, not having read them -- but I don't think it worked in this episode. More than once I was confused about whether the scene I was watching preceded or succeeded the previous scene chronologically. 

 

I love British drama. I am smart and patient and can sit through just about anything. But this was really boring. I'm on the fence about continuing.

I plan to keep watching, but I felt Molasses Hall would be a more apt title.

 

 

The first epi was dark but also compelling and fascinating to me.  I have been to Ireland many times and Cromwell is a curse word - if you have seen the endless churches "destroyed by Cromwell" you will understand.

I believe that the Cromwell so hated in Ireland is Oliver Cromwell, who came much later.

That's correct, although both Cromwells destroyed a number of religious and other social institutions in their time.

Oliver Cromwell was something like the great-grandson of (Wolf Hall) Thomas Cromwell's nephew. I'm guessing that nephew is the same person who offered to change his name in this episode since the nephew was Thomas Cromwell's sister's son and did so in real life.

[sugarbaker design]

The problem was a sluggish pace with a ping-pong ball chronology that went back and forth. That might have worked in the books -- I don't know, not having read them -- but I don't think it worked in this episode.

 

 

I didn't mind the pace, some call it sluggish, some call it leisurely, but I did have an issue with the ping pong chronology.  I can't remember if WH the novel had linear or non-linear chronology, but if it did it was less jarring than WH the show.

Edited April 6, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[attica]

Oliver Cromwell was something like the great-grandson of (Wolf Hall) Thomas Cromwell's nephew.

 

I saw Oliver's death mask on display at a museum near Ely some time ago. He had a really big head.  Which is utterly unrelated to the topic at hand, so:

 

Loving this so far. I thought the interior darkness would bother me, but it is surprisingly lovely in its inkiness. (Kudos to the DP.) Rylance is capturing TC's playing absolutely everything close to the vest really well -- the subtlety of his expressions is captivating. I loved the scene with his father especially.

 

It's early going yet, but boy, I'm having some fun with all the "Hey, it's that Brit!" going on in the cast.

[photo fox]

I'd be interested to know how "unsullied" feel about it.

As an "unsullied", my reaction can best be summed up with quoting these two posts:

 

I love British drama. I am smart and patient and can sit through just about anything. But this was really boring. I'm on the fence about continuing.

The problem wasn't, in my opinion, when Henry & Anne first showed-up. I wasn't even particularly concerned if they showed-up at all in this episode.

The problem was a sluggish pace with a ping-pong ball chronology that went back and forth. That might have worked in the books -- I don't know, not having read them -- but I don't think it worked in this episode. More than once I was confused about whether the scene I was watching preceded or succeeded the previous scene chronologically.

I'm greatly disappointed, as I've been really looking forward to this.

[kieyra]

I didn't mind the pace, some call it sluggish, some call it leisurely, but I did have an issue with the ping pong chronology.  I can't remember if WH the novel had linear or non-linear chronology, but if it did it was less jarring than WH the show.

 

The book did have abrupt time jumps, especially in the beginning, but as someone who fell in the 'love' camp with Mantel's writing style, AND someone who already had a very strong grip on the actual chronology of events, I went with it and it all worked out. I've now read the books so many times I understand why she did it that way, but it can read like a series of unlinked short stories at times. But she's setting up key pieces: the awfulness of Cromwell's father, and his intense loyalty to Wolsey. 

 

I wonder how they handled this for the stage production, which is apparently quite popular in London and is coming to NY.

 

Disappointed but not surprised to see the reaction of others and of unsullied. I will say, though, that the second episode begins a somewhat livelier pace. It never stops being cerebral and slow, and I will continue to feel that Rylance was miscast, because book Cromwell was very animated, but there's just more texture in following episodes. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by kieyra

[MichelleAK]

I thought the first episode was pretty well done.  They did compress the timeline of his wife's and children's deaths, and some scenes from the book were made shorter, but all in all, considering they are compressing two books into six hours, it wasn't bad.  I am glad they kept the non-linear nature of the first part of Wolf Hall, although I wish they had shown more from his earlier days (pre-1529).  

 

I found Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Rafe a bit distracting.  His face hasn't changed, really, in the past 12 years, so he still looks like the kid from Love, Actually to me.  And the actress playing Mary Boleyn is a bit...odd looking.   Otherwise, I'm happy with the actors chosen so far, and more happy with Mark Rylance than I thought I would be.

 

I still wish they had allotted more time than 6 hours for both books.  I think it would have allowed the early part of Wolf Hall to roll out a bit more smoothly.

[M. Darcy]

I thought it was great.  But I'm one of those who this is tailor made for -  I've read the books, I know the history and I love watching British actors and shows about British history.  And we finally get a ginger Henry VIII! 

 

I've watched the series already on my iPad so nice to finally see it on the bigger screen on my television.

[JudyObscure]

I found Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Rafe a bit distracting. His face hasn't changed, really, in the past 12 years, so he still looks like the kid from Love, Actually to me.

Agreed, and those big eyes have been tugging at my heart strings for so long, I just want to take him home and cuddle him, which may not be the intended response to this character. I also have trouble seeing Claire Foy as anyone but the tender, angelic, "Little Dorrit," in spite of her role as the self-centered, trouble maker, she played in "Upstairs Downstairs," revisited.

If they don't want to be type cast in their early roles, they shouldn't be so wonderful in them.

It wasn't too boring for me, few things are.

[HoodlumSheep]

One of my biggest issues with this episode was all the time/location jumping. I got downright confused. It went from present day to 8 years before to jumping 6 years, then it was 2 yrs before present time, then it was present time...

So the basic stuff that happened in the past (8 yrs ago):

Cromwell gets hired by Wolsey to be his lawyer/friend/advisor (???).

Wolsey advises Mr. Boleyn to not let the Anne/Percy guy match go ahead and to marry her off to some person from ireland?

Then Cromwell's wife/daughters die around the same time Henry starts seeking an annulment for his marriage from the church and things start heading south. Cromwell visits his father.

Then present day:

Anne has risen in power, so the Mary/Henry stuff's happened and he's moved onto Anne.

They've exiled the cardinal. And Henry's still trying to get his annulment official.

Cromwell has dinner with Thomas Moore (is that his name) who is trying to (or already has?) become some sort of chancellor (which was part of Wosley's job?) and an ambassador of sorts from the emperor who is apparently the nephew of someone (Catherine/Katherine?). Cromwell is aiming for a seat to save Wosley.

Cromwell has a run-in with Henry.

???

Did I get the timeline right?

Other things:

I've never read the books. Are Cromwell and Mary gonna have a thing of some sort? I like the dude who plays Cromwell. So he has a son who's in france? A thought for a minute that he was going to murder his father with that hammer.

I want to punch Anne Boleyn in the face. I want to punch that young musical instrument guy too. Mary seems fun.

I'm also a little confused on why Cromwell is so loyal to the cardinal. Is it just because they're good friends?

Who's the guy who asked if he should change his name to Cromwell? His nephew? I missed that part.

Edited April 6, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[attica]

In that headgear, Charity Wakefield (Mary) looks an awful lot like Abbie Cornish.

 

Can I say that Joanne Whalley as K of A is reminding me of Natalie Wood in West Side Story with that accent? That purple dress was to die for, on the other hand.

[SusanSunflower]

Unsullied, I was captivated, if not entirely bewitched. Mostly by Jonathan Pryce and Rylance and the unexpected -- his father, the near-silent deaths of his wife and daughters as well as the lack of obvious appeal of the infamous other sister, Anne Boleyn, who seemed oddly modern, lighter, quicker. Happy to see Thomas Brodie-Sangster, so tall and grown up, happy always to see Damian Lewis succeed in a new role. 

I assume more will happen next episode. I wasn't bored. It was too gorgeously filmed for that and the interiors managed to be credible livable spaces without being over-done. I was only distracted by the odd male costumes that seemed to make ordinary men of importance twice the size of less important men (and women) in their midsts. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[MichelleAK]

Hoodlum Sheep:

 

You’ve got the timeline right.  It starts in 1529, at Wolsey’s fall, then moves back eight years, then various other times before his fall.

 

A few answers.  Cromwell goes to work for Wolsey in 1516, so nearly 13 years at the time of Wolsey's fall.  Unfortunately, due to how much they have to pack into six hours, you really can’t see the relationship developing here.  Wolsey and Cromwell have much in common. Both come from very humble beginnings, and both have overcome those beginnings (although Wolsey is ahead of Cromwell with regard to power at this time).  In the books, Cromwell did love Wolsey as a father figure, and was fiercely devoted to him. This devotion plays out over the books, especially in Bring Up the Bodies.

 

Boleyn is considered an upstart, who got a toehold into the (minor) aristocracy by marrying up. (His wife is of the Howard clan; her brother is the Duke of Norfolk, one of the two who came at the beginning to strip Wolsey of his seal). Anne Boleyn and Harry Percy wanted to marry (and may have had a pre-contract). However, Percy is the heir to the Northumberland Earldom, and way above the Boleyns in rank, which is why Percy’s father is completely opposed to the match.  This is also covered more in depth in the books, and is important to how the story plays out later, especially as it relates to Anne's hatred of Wolsey. 

 

Thomas More was named Chancellor after Wolsey’s fall.  The Ambassador at the dinner party, Chapuys, represents Spain on behalf of Catherine of Aragon’s (Henry VIII’s current wife) nephew, the Emperor Charles V.

 

Cromwell has a surviving son, his eldest child, who is away at school (in England, not France).  The young man who wanted to change his last name is his nephew, Richard (Cromwell’s sister’s son).

 

ETA:  Ugh, this got way long.  Mods, if you think it better belongs in the Thomas Cromwell thread, please move it to there.  I put it here since it does also answer questions regarding this episode.

Edited April 6, 2015 by MichelleAK

[HoodlumSheep]

^ Thanks for the answers, MichelleAK!

That makes much more sense now. Hopefully the show doesn't time jump too much after this.

I wonder how well others followed it (or liked it) without having read the books or being history buffs.

I know my mom turned it off at some point. She says she got bored. I didn't think it was bad though. I was more confused with the time jumping and all the characters. I figured they were trying to introduce everybody and fill the audience in on the basic gist of everything.

[LuciaMia]

Funny how so many of the characters looked down sneeringly on Cromwell as 'a son of a butcher.'

[Calamity Jane]

Funny how so many of the characters looked down sneeringly on Cromwell as 'a son of a butcher.'

Wolsey was the one who was often called the son of a butcher.  

[Calamity Jane]

I'm a bit of a nut on Tudor history, so I'm always up for a walk through this time period.  I just found Cromwell a bit too flat a character in this episode, so I hope he picks up some steam as we go along.  He absolutely is one of the pivotal figures in that era, and it seems clear must have had considerable charisma or force of character that the show hasn't let us see just yet.  

 

I'm not sure Anne Boleyn looked old enough -- she was a reasonably suitable age when Henry fell for her, but was 32 or 33 by the time Elizabeth was born, which in those days was almost elderly for a woman to be having children.  I haven't read the books, so it's hard to see the reason for all the jumping around in time, but I'm looking forward to the rest.  

[kieyra]

I'm a bit of a nut on Tudor history, so I'm always up for a walk through this time period.  I just found Cromwell a bit too flat a character in this episode, so I hope he picks up some steam as we go along.  He absolutely is one of the pivotal figures in that era, and it seems clear must have had considerable charisma or force of character that the show hasn't let us see just yet.  

 

I'm not sure Anne Boleyn looked old enough -- she was a reasonably suitable age when Henry fell for her, but was 32 or 33 by the time Elizabeth was born, which in those days was almost elderly for a woman to be having children.  I haven't read the books, so it's hard to see the reason for all the jumping around in time, but I'm looking forward to the rest.  

 

I'm not sure if you're a book reader, but book-Cromwell (in this universe) had a definite force of presence and vitality that Rylance is not giving me. The dry humor is the same, often because it's word for word from the books, but book-Cromwell had a joie de vivre and 'personhood' that made you root for him. 

 

I've mentioned it elsewhere but I would have loved to see James Frain reprise his Cromwell from the Tudors. I guess that kind of thing really doesn't happen, though.

[SusanSunflower]

I think that Cromwell is being given the foundation as a character whose powers arise from being very thoughtful, observant and intelligent man, respected by Woolsey and others, even by those who don't like him -- in contrast to -- your bodice-ripping sword-wielding Douglas Fairbanks or Errol Flynn, man of action ...  or at least that was my interpretation of this introductory episode, to dispel any notion that daring-do was in the wings. 

[attica]

book-Cromwell (in this universe) had a definite force of presence and vitality that Rylance is not giving me.

 

Mileage varying here, but I am finding Rylance a more present personality than I found book-Cromwell. 

[kaygeeret]

Many thanks to yokosmom, constantinaple and others who corrected my Cromwell mix up.

 

I definitely need to revisit a history book or three - maybe I will read the novels upon which this show is based.

[VeryNot]

I'm just happy they got the important things right: Henry was a fit, good-looking man before he had his jousting accident, Anne was kind of a nasty meangirl with a slight French affect, and Catherine had red hair (she also had blue eyes, but I won't quibble at the casting -- usually they cast an actress with dark hair and eyes for Catherine).

I adored this, but as someone who loves Tudor history, it was made for me. I've never read Wolf Hall, but it's on the shortlist. I didn't find it slow, but that may be because I know the story so well, and it's nice to see it from a different angle, and to see Cromwell in a different light.

[turbogirlnyc]

I've been anticipating this series and even finished books 1 & 2 in advance, but my dvr cut off at the 1 hour mark! I'm so frustrated. I got to see Henry and Cromwell meet in the courtyard but it stopped before their conversation. GAH! I wasn't able to find a scheduled repeat before next week's episode.

Can anyone fill me in on what happened (major things) during the second hour?

I saw Harry Lloyd (Viserys on Game of Thrones) in the credits but missed him in the episode. Either that or he showed up in the 2nd half.

Not sure I like Rylance as Cromwell. But I was a huge fan of James Frain's portrayal in The Tudors. Perhaps I'll warm up to him in time? Doubtful. I was disapointed in this Cromwell's reactions (facial expressions) to his wife and daughters' deaths.

Otherwise, the acting and sets are superb so far! Loved seeing Bernard Hill and Mark Gatiss. Gatiss is in everything lately, Game of Thrones, Wolf Hall, Sherlock.

Can't wait to read the comments in this thread!

Edited April 6, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[SusanSunflower]

If you're in the U.S. you can watch it on line here  http://video.pbs.org

I have to re-watch to see Mathieu Amalric whom I never caught a glimpse of. 

I find Rylance as Cromwell fascinating, very attractive but not sexy in a stop-you-in-your-tracks way (at least not yet, we've only just been introduced). 

Edited April 6, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[turbogirlnyc]

If you're in the U.S. you can watch it on line here http://video.pbs.org

I have to re-watch to see Mathieu Amalric whom I never caught a glimpse of.

I find Rylance as Cromwell fascinating, very attractive but not sexy in a stop-you-in-your-tracks way (at least not yet, we've only just been introduced).

Thank you for the link! Much appreciated.

I couldn't place Rylance until I read in a post upthread that he played Anne's father in The Other Boleyn Girl.

[kieyra]

Ah, apparently Harry Lloyd plays Harry Percy. I missed him without the Targaryan blonde drag.

[turbogirlnyc]

SusanSunflower: Mathieu Amalric plays Eustace Chapuys, the Spanish Ambassador. He is in the scene at the supper party sitting beside Thomas More.

Thanks Kierya! Henry Percy only dances with Anne in the beginning of the episode. What a waste of talent! Oh well.

Edited April 7, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[lucindabelle]

I was drawn in by the casting of Damien Lewis whom I love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

The first epi was dark but also compelling and fascinating to me.  I have been to Ireland many times and Cromwell is a curse word - if you have seen the endless churches "destroyed by Cromwell" you will understand

 !

As others have noted, different Cromwell.

The deaths were devastating. Wife didn't seem at all like a nag but very gentle. His love for his girls was dear.

I've read the books but remember very little it seems!

I thought Cromwells "good man if he can find them" nd Mary's delighted laugh were wonderful. Ditto his unexpected dry honesty with the king. "Ideal, from a fiscal pov."

" I can. I will. " quote from Shakespeare's henry iv....

The Tudors was fun, but if Henry viii had looked like Jonathan Rhys Meyers all his life instead of morphing into an obese man with a smelly ulcerous leg, history might well have been different. Just saying.

[Lillybee]

I loved Mary's snark. Who can blame her since she did bear Henry's son and now is acting as her sister's lady in waiting. I am glad that she can snark and gossip.

[lucindabelle]

I appreciated her too. I know she ends up well, but it's got to be infuriating being replaced by your own bratty sister. "Oh, she can wait," she said with a laugh.

[pasdetrois]

Read the books and was very excited for this. Was curious how Lewis will give us Henry VIII.

 

I like Rylance's portrayal thus far. He always looks kind of shabby and dusty, as befits where he is in life. To the landed aristocracy he must appear dour and not too bright, and we all know how that turns out. But it's painful to watch him gamely deal with the nobles' snubs and derision.

[attica]

" I can. I will. " quote from Shakespeare's henry iv....

 

Oh, dear, I wish I could stop myself from reflexive pedantry, but I cannot help it. Hal says,  "I do. I will." 

[lucindabelle]

OK, not a direct quote then! But an allusion. Unmissable.

[Calamity Jane]

I'm just happy they got the important things right: Henry was a fit, good-looking man before he had his jousting accident, Anne was kind of a nasty meangirl with a slight French affect, and Catherine had red hair (she also had blue eyes, but I won't quibble at the casting -- usually they cast an actress with dark hair and eyes for Catherine).

I adored this, but as someone who loves Tudor history, it was made for me. I've never read Wolf Hall, but it's on the shortlist. I didn't find it slow, but that may be because I know the story so well, and it's nice to see it from a different angle, and to see Cromwell in a different light.

Yes, yes to the portrayal of Henry, Anne, and Catherine!  So often done so wrong!  

[kieyra]

Other things:

I've never read the books. Are Cromwell and Mary gonna have a thing of some sort? 

 

Book spoiler:

They tease a potential hookup in the book, but it doesn't turn into anything, and is mostly played as Mary trying to find a way to escape from her family. I can't remember if it's shown in the show, but in the book later on Cromwell tries to arrange a match between Mary and (his son, I think?) but Henry VIII doesn't allow it to go through. Cromwell is overall shown as having a soft spot for Mary but not really ever being able to do anything about it.

[blackwing]

I tried reading the book and had to quit about a third of the way in.  I found it dreadfully boring and I hated the writing style and the dialogue.

 

I figured I would give this show a shot since I am keenly interested in English history, particularly Tudor history.  I told myself that it was based on the book I found awful but surely with all the production values and sets and costumes that it would be much better.

 

Sadly, I didn't find that to be the case.  I found the show quite slow and boring.  And I agree with everyone's comments about the time jumps.  "8 Years Earlier".  "18 months before Wolsey's Fall".  That one was particularly jarring, such a strange benchmark for a date.

 

I'll keep watching, to see if it gets better.

[kitmerlot1213]

I loved Mary's snark. Who can blame her since she did bear Henry's son and now is acting as her sister's lady in waiting. I am glad that she can snark and gossip.

 

I thought this was just a rumor--has it been verified that Henry VIII fathered Mary Boleyn's kids and not her husband Henry Carey?

 

I also have a deep love for the Tudor time period of British history and I'm enjoying this series and it makes me want to read the books associated with it.  Liz and the little girls' deaths shocked me--little Grace's wearing the angel wings is particularly heart-breaking and poignant-- and I hope the actress playing Anne Boleyn tones down the overt bitchiness.  She's reminding me of Natalie Portman's take on the character from The Other Boleyn Girl and I wanted that version to drown in the Thames.  Natalie Dormer's Anne is still my favorite but I'm willing to give Clare Foy's a chance--I just hope she shows the sassiness that drew Henry to Anne in the first place because right now it's hard to see why he'd be interested in such a mean girl..  Damien Lewis is also rather wonderful because his Henry seems genuinely troubled by what's happening to the Cardinal but at the same time, he wants his divorce and he's not too worried about how he gets it.

 

My only worry is that Thomas More will be seen as less than in comparison to Cromwell and I think that does a disservice to More.  I shall wait and see what happens in the next episodes.

Edited April 7, 2015 by kitmerlot1213

[planetofapes]

I love historical British drama but this show lacks one key ingredient. Hunks. This appears to be a hunk free zone. I may come around eventually but I wish the casting agent had thought about this before hand.