S02.E15: One Door Closes

[gik910]

I have no great love for Skye, but are we honestly supposed to feel sorry for the tac team that was sent to capture/eliminate her? 

While other Shield may have some points about how things went down & Fury's style- they have to know that committees don't inspire loyalty.  Also, their agents leave a lot to be desired.  How many people did it take to overrun the base and Coulson & Sky still got away and May is obviously only still there by choice...

 

I was excited by the ending, Hunter is becoming a fun character!

 

Man, Nick Fury is going to be so pissed when he comes back.

[Tryangle]

Nick Fury needs to show up quickly, even if to just open up that toolbox. All we seem to know about it is that it's basically the MCU equivalent of the Prime Radiant

[ottoDbusdriver]

Nick Fury needs to show up quickly, even if to just open up that toolbox. All we seem to know about it is that it's basically the MCU equivalent of the Prime Radiant

 

Nick needs to show up and go all Jules Winnfield from Pulp Fiction on both sides, paraphrasing:

 

Fury: Nobody's gonna hurt anybody. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on Coulson what's Fonzie like?
Coulson: Cool?
Fury: What?
Coulson: He's cool.

Fury: Correctamundo. And that's what we're gonna be. We're gonna be cool. Now Gonzales, I'm gonna count to three, and when I count three, you let go of your gun, and sit your ass down. But when you do it, you do it cool. Ready? One... two... three.

 

They've already used the beginning of Jules' signature line on Fury's tombstone, so it wouldn't be a stretch.  :)

[Humbugged]

Turns out that the zig zag water is an actual thing and can be caused by vibrating the air around the tap

 

https://youtu.be/uENITui5_jU

Edited April 1, 2015 by Humbugged

[MDKNIGHT]

It isn't believeable that Real SHIELD could have been doing any good without our SHIELD or General Talbot noticing which means it is plot hole or Real SHIELD has been doing diddly while our SHIELD has at least gone on missions and tried to do some good.

I have a feeling No Eyes and his group may have been well intentioned but are likely to be cultish in their POV. They will probably try to manipulate Skye and play the "you're one of us" card to get her to do evil things. I get the wiff of zealot off of No Eyes.

[Bruinsfan]

I'm curious what cargo the ship was carrying that Fury was so intent on keeping from Hydra.  Surely planes and weapons didn't matter so much at that point when Hydra has so much already, so what else might it have been?

While they will probably have some superscience Phase Two macguffin onboard, they really don't need to.  The US Navy is built around 10 Nimitz class carriers, and the entire rest of the world has another 10 comparable ships. If any one of those gets taken over by a terrorist group everyone not living near the Pole of Inaccessibility in central Asia had better start saying their prayers until it's back in the proper hands.

[Chicago Redshirt]

It isn't believeable that Real SHIELD could have been doing any good without our SHIELD or General Talbot noticing which means it is plot hole or Real SHIELD has been doing diddly while our SHIELD has at least gone on missions and tried to do some good.

 

Hypothetically, why not? They are spies, after all.

 

I can fanwank that there have been numerous other fires to put out that REALD has attended to. 

 

One of the issues the show faces is that as cool as the CA2 scenario was, we still don't have a very good sense of the scope of Hydra, SHIELD or a lot of the organizational stuff.

 

For instance, how many people were in SHIELD/Hydra pre-CA2? How many people died on both sides? How many Hydra folks were working outside SHIELD? How many people work for Coulson? How many in REALD? Where are they getting their money from? 

 

I could go on but that's a good gist.

[xqueenfrostine]

It isn't believeable that Real SHIELD could have been doing any good without our SHIELD or General Talbot noticing which means it is plot hole or Real SHIELD has been doing diddly while our SHIELD has at least gone on missions and tried to do some good.

Honestly I'm of the mind that apart from spying, New SHIELD hasn't done much since their formation. It's possible (maybe even probable) that they're spying on more than just Coulson & Co. but I don't think they've been running major ops in the meantime. Which makes their current high horse even less impressive. A lot of what they've said about Coulson is completely true, but I don't think they have a leg to stand on because of the way they decided to perform a coup rather than making any attempt of being part of the process and because they seem to be more focused on Coulson, who even they would probably would acknowledge is more hero than villain whatever problems they might have with his methods or his focus, than the people in the world who are actually out to do harm.

[Traveller519]

The Aircraft/Heli-carrier in the flashbacks appears to have been significantly upgraded to. That probably needed some attention in addition to consolidating their operations.

[Kel Varnsen]

I actually enjoyed this episode a LOT more than last week -- although that was mainly because of the flashbacks.  Bobbi/Mack/Gonzalez/Hartley had really great group chemistry.  Although intellectually I know they were betraying Coulson, emotionally as a viewer I found myself thinking "I want a show about THESE people being badasses." 

 

The extra action made it way better than last week, even though the ending with Skye, her powers messing someone up and then getting teleported away was super predictable.

And i didn't hear, the lady from the acaademy, who was she fighting off before being rescued?

Also when did Fury have time to call Bobbi before he "died"? His car gets ambushed, he is almost killed, then he goes to Steve's apartment and is "killed" by the winter soldier. At that time they didn't even know about Hydra. At what point between the ambush and getting shot does he think "better get someone to blow up a carrier"? Or was that a hint that Bobbie knows Fury is alive.?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also when did Fury have time to call Bobbi before he "died"? His car gets ambushed, he is almost killed, then he goes to Steve's apartment and is "killed" by the winter soldier. At that time they didn't even know about Hydra. At what point between the ambush and getting shot does he think "better get someone to blow up a carrier"? Or was that a hint that Bobbie knows Fury is alive.?

 

Yeah, something doesn't add up there.  

[Donny Ketchum]

SHIELD vs. SHIELD?  I'm there!

 

Definitely a great episode!  Loved May vs. Bobbi, loved Mack protecting Fitz, loved Fitz and Simmons's moment, and even loved Hunter showing up with Coulson at the end.  Also loved the flashback scenes.

 

And of course, no Ward!  That was the bonus!

[Kel Varnsen]

Yeah, something doesn't add up there.

I might have to watch the movie again, but I am pretty sure there is at least a couple of days between Fury dying and "the day SHIELD fell". What was Bobbi doing in all that time?

[frenchtoast]

Also, Fury called Maria Hill just before he was chased in the car and they most likely planned his death on the operating table after he escaped down the mouse hole. It begs the question of why he would order that at that time, though. I'm thinking he sent the order when Natasha put everything out there.  

[MisterGlass]

It could be that Maria Hill sent the command to Bobbie, saying it was one of Fury's last orders, or something along those lines.  Did they specify if Bobbie was on the ship at the onset of the attack, or was sent specifically to clean up once it was in progress?

[Raja]

Hypothetically, why not? They are spies, after all.

 

I can fanwank that there have been numerous other fires to put out that REALD has attended to. 

 

They were more than spies, they were soldiers with its own navy and air forces. And after Captain America stopped an attempt by Hydra to kill everybody with any leadership potential the US and presumably other governments went hunting for SHIELD assets. Hiding a couple of stealth airplanes and a few safe houses with a few resident agents around the world before Ward was turned over is one thing. Having a fleet aircraft carrier and possibly a helicarrier being hunted and hiding for months is a whole nother level of impossible

[sinkwriter]

People have mentioned Captain America and Thor-related film content before in these threads and I'm getting lost.

 

Is there an order to all the movies that I should be watching? I've seen Avengers 1, and all 3 of the Iron Man movies, but I haven't seen any of the Hulk or Thor or Captain America films, and I'm not a comic book reader (though I would probably enjoy it), so sometimes I feel pretty lost in some of these conversations about the information from the films or in how this show does (or doesn't) tie in to the films.

 

I think someone answered this question for me once before but I forgot to bookmark it (stupid me) so I have no idea where to find that information. Could someone please tell me, if I were to sit down and watch all the films, what order would you suggest they go in, so that they make sense to me?

 

I mean, do you have to watch Thor 1, and then Captain America 1, and then Avengers 1, and then Thor 2 and Captain America 2 (at this point I don't even know which ones have multiple films and how many, so I really need help here). I've pretty much been in a bubble, film-wise, for the past 4 years -- I went back to school and was finishing a new career degree and tied to homework homework homework and that's about it, so I haven't really seen many films in the past few years except the final Harry Potter, the new Star Trek films, and I don't even know what else. Not much, sadly. I've been playing catch-up these past 6 months or so, LOL, trying to see what all I missed.

 

So if anyone could help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it (and will definitely bookmark the answer)! Thanks!

[MartinKSmith]

I'm not entirely sure that I'm on board with this whole 'real SHIELD' thing they've got going on, but I did enjoy this weeks episode. So long as they keep making episodes that I actually enjoy, I'll keep watching.

[Chicago Redshirt]

People have mentioned Captain America and Thor-related film content before in these threads and I'm getting lost.

 

Is there an order to all the movies that I should be watching? I've seen Avengers 1, and all 3 of the Iron Man movies, but I haven't seen any of the Hulk or Thor or Captain America films, and I'm not a comic book reader (though I would probably enjoy it), so sometimes I feel pretty lost in some of these conversations about the information from the films or in how this show does (or doesn't) tie in to the films.

 

There is a thread that is meant to address this sort of question:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/23747-agents-of-shield-and-the-mcu/#entry975483

 

"MCU" means "Marvel Cinematic Universe." So I will go there and try to address your question at length.

 

The short version is that so far only two films that the show has leaned on heavily: Avengers 1 and Captain America 2. If you haven't watched those, you should watch those just because they are great movies, not just because they will give you a better appreciation of what is going on in the TV show. 

[Raja]

People have mentioned Captain America and Thor-related film content before in these threads and I'm getting lost.

Is there an order to all the movies that I should be watching? I've seen Avengers 1, and all 3 of the Iron Man movies, but I haven't seen any of the Hulk or Thor or Captain America films, and I'm not a comic book reader (though I would probably enjoy it), so sometimes I feel pretty lost in some of these conversations about the information from the films or in how this show does (or doesn't) tie in to the films.

I think someone answered this question for me once before but I forgot to bookmark it (stupid me) so I have no idea where to find that information. Could someone please tell me, if I were to sit down and watch all the films, what order would you suggest they go in, so that they make sense to me?

I mean, do you have to watch Thor 1, and then Captain America 1, and then Avengers 1, and then Thor 2 and Captain America 2 (at this point I don't even know which ones have multiple films and how many, so I really need help here). I've pretty much been in a bubble, film-wise, for the past 4 years -- I went back to school and was finishing a new career degree and tied to homework homework homework and that's about it, so I haven't really seen many films in the past few years except the final Harry Potter, the new Star Trek films, and I don't even know what else. Not much, sadly. I've been playing catch-up these past 6 months or so, LOL, trying to see what all I missed.

So if anyone could help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it (and will definitely bookmark the answer)! Thanks!

I think for Agents of SHIELD you need Avengers for the battle of New York, maybe Ironman III for the first half of season one and the extremise Deathlok stuff. But most importantly for us is The Winter Soldier.

The First Avenger is probably most needed for Agent Carter. The Ironman, Hulk and Thor movies while referenced doesn't immediately lead to AoS storylines

Edited April 2, 2015 by Raja

[tennisgurl]

I liked this episode a lot more than I thought I would, to be honest.

 

"Real SHIELD" rubbed me the wrong way last week, so it was nice to see their origin, and I am pretty sympathetic to them, at least as individuals. The "New SHIELD" itself is a little sketchy as an organization, at least for now. Coulson might have made some bad calls as new shield director, but he made some good pints against Admiral Adama. The biggest being: If you know that we aren't bad guys, why all the secrecy? Just tell Coulsons faction that they're around, and combine resources. If you suspect he`s up to no good, wouldn't it make more sense to be close to him, to keep an eye on him, instead of sending in spies. You know, being all secret keeping, just like Fury? 

 

Glad that Fitz and Simmons seem to be mending their friendship. Speaking of friendships, Mac MUST have known how betrayed Fitz would be. He knows what happened with Ward. Now, Mac is a million light years from Ward, and its clearly not the same situation, but still. Have a friend keeping a secret agenda from you must be a real sore spot. 

 

Forever bitter that they killed Lucy Lawless. Down for more flashbacks if she shows up.

 

I felt awful for Sky. Its not like she wanted any of this. Even her friends clearly have no idea how to deal with her. I think leaving with teleportation guy is the right call for her, for now at least. They can help her get some control over her powers, and wont look at her like some kind of ticking time bomb. Speaking of which, Real SHIELD needs to find a better way to deal with super-powered people/beings. For all their moaning about how Fury relied on them too much, what are you going to do when the next alien fleet shows up? Tell the Avengers they`re too dangerous to fight the aliens? This is the world they live in now, and with the world expanding, things are going to get even crazier, with more aliens, magic, and other uber powerful people/beings. They cant just treat everyone as a threat. Be prepared, but don't be overly hostile.  They cant spend all their time hunting them down! There has to be some way to deal with this, without running in, attacking good people. 

[sinkwriter]

Thank you for the help, Chicago Redshirt and Raja! (Also going over to that link you provided, Chicago, thank you very much!)

[tennisgurl]

So, whenever Admiral Adama finishes his new SHIELD meetings, how many times do you think everyone chants "So say we all"? 

 

So say we all! So say we all! 

[Kel Varnsen]

It could be that Maria Hill sent the command to Bobbie, saying it was one of Fury's last orders, or something along those lines.  Did they specify if Bobbie was on the ship at the onset of the attack, or was sent specifically to clean up once it was in progress?

Maybe. Saying it came from Maria Hill or Black Widow or even Cap would have made more sense. Especially because Fury was already dead for at about a day before Cap and Black Widow found out about the HYDRA infiltration. Then they went back to Washington, hid out at the Falcon's house, next day they were captured by Hydra (and rescued by Hill) found out Fury was alive at a secret base. Then the next day they attacked the SHIELD HQ which was "the day that SHIELD Fell". This was always one of my big worries about this kind of big shared universe. There is so many moving parts that it can be easy for writers to miss things. And this is just the type of genre that would have really hardcore fans that would notice this type of thing. Then again if Bobbi knows that Fury is alive it would all make sense. 

 

Also this might be a dumb question, but if all of SHIELD's plans have vertical take off and landing capabilities, then why would you design your big ship like a standard air craft carrier with a huge runway?

[Raja]

 

Also this might be a dumb question, but if all of SHIELD's plans have vertical take off and landing capabilities, then why would you design your big ship like a standard air craft carrier with a huge runway?

Even with the capability current V/STOL attack aircraft can take a bigger payload up when they are able to make  a rolling start. See the ski ramps added to helicopter carriers for Harrier type jet aircraft. We may also assume that the ship is older then the planes that it carries so angled flight decks for recoveries and catapult gear for take offs can be a residual technology from when they were needed. And who knows SHIELD may have planned for the possibility of needing USMC F-18s or other nations carrier aircraft to back them up in a scenario.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Raja

[Kel Varnsen]

The theing with Fury got me thinking and i am a little unsure how SHIELD's final day went down. Now i get that where Cap was it would basically be a battle since Hydra was trying to stop him. But in other locations why would Hydra reveal themselves. In this episode on the carrier they treated it like an invasion of outside forces. But how did Bobbi, Mac and the rest know who was Hydra so they could shoot at them? And how did the Hydra guy holding Mac not know who was in charge when Hydra had completely infiltrated SHIELD?

That said his, "always with the Nazi's" complaint was funny.

[Linderhill]

Everytime some one posts anything with "Adama" in it I still think of Lorene Green.  I didn't care for the the BF reboot, too dam depressing. Olmos will always be Lt. Castillo to me. 

 

I mostly enjoyed the episode but I agree with those that posted that if this "Real SHEILD" is so great, why the secrecy and deception.  I totally agree with those that said that this group is mostly about being against superpowers. 

 

One big knitpick I had was Weaver.  Why in the world is the woman wearing a skirt suit? ( and presumably heels)  This group has been working, and I use that term loosely, under the radar since SHIELD fell and the woman was supposedly rescued from some superpowered villian but she's dressed in full business attire.  I don't buy that.  Just like I don't buy it when women are dressed in skirts and heels no matter what they're doing in most shows.  Its a pet peeve of mine. 

[Raja]

Everytime some one posts anything with "Adama" in it I still think of Lorene Green.  I didn't care for the the BF reboot, too dam depressing. Olmos will always be Lt. Castillo to me. 

 

 

But we can't quote a Lieutenant Castillo stare down.

[JTMacc99]

Yes, a shock wave powerful enough to knock down trees would not actually harm the human body.  It's not like concussion grenades are remotely dangerous.

Heh. I had that exact thought, and then I told that part of my brain to shut the hell up so that I could enjoy the cool special effect. I think that's my super power.

[Jediknight]

Favorite line in the episode:

"Fitz! Why did you make me watch 'Paranormal Activity'?!"

I loved that line as well, as mentioned in my earlier post.  Fitz is the one that defended her to everyone, kept her secret, and wouldn't betray her.  If they've got to do a romance for Skye, have her and Fitz be together, it's sure as hell more believable than Skye and anyone else on the team.

[Kel Varnsen]

Definitely a great episode!  Loved May vs. Bobbi, loved Mack protecting Fitz, loved Fitz and Simmons's moment, and even loved Hunter showing up with Coulson at the end.  Also loved the flashback scenes.

Bobbi vs May was awesome.  I liked that when May confronted Bobbi in Coulson's office, she didn't mess around and as soon as things started to go bad she started shooting. I am really enjoying the addition of Bobbi this season, and what surprises me is that it is on more than just a superficial level.

[KirkB]

I don't think 'real' SHIELD has done very much, and I don't think they're very big. It seems like they're made up of only a small number of agents, maybe even just the ones who were on the ship at the time. They've probably spent most of the time since SHIELD fell rebuilding the ship, and then they start hearing about Hydra and its infighting with what's left of SHIELD and find out about Fury's pet agent Coulson. Gonzalez seems to have an over-inflated opinion of his own importance.

[tennisgurl]

Thats what I really want to know. How big actually is Real Shield? How many agents are working for them? What resources do they have that Coulsons Shield does not have? In fact, How big is Coulsons Shield? How many people do THEY have? 

 

I need numbers, people!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Thats what I really want to know. How big actually is Real Shield? How many agents are working for them? What resources do they have that Coulsons Shield does not have? In fact, How big is Coulsons Shield? How many people do THEY have?

 

I need numbers, people!

 

Coulson's team seemed to have full access to SHIELD resources like satellites and comms ever since the Hydra reveal -- you would have thought they would have picked up some chatter from the Iliad helicarrier or their fleet of Quinjets.  Then again, maybe Gonzales didn't update his Facebook page for Skye to find out about the Real SHIELD. </snark>

 

I was surprised that Bobbi was able to so easily disable both the Quinjet and the Bus so easily.  Considering that SHIELD was blown up by infiltrators, I would have thought that Coulson would have implemented much tighter security and access control -- isn't that what the lanyards and security cards would have been for ?  Speaking of lanyards, where has Koenig been all this time ?

 

When Coulson was trying to pry info out of Mack over Lola, I was surprised when all these other guys showed up that had never been seen before.  Did Coulson have a job fair that we didn't see ? </snark>

[kennyab]

Maybe. Saying it came from Maria Hill or Black Widow or even Cap would have made more sense. Especially because Fury was already dead for at about a day before Cap and Black Widow found out about the HYDRA infiltration.

 

Even if she received the order from Maria Hill under the guise of Fury's final commands before he died (or he contacted Bobbi before his death saying that if "x" happens in the next couple of days, then take out the carrier), I don't think Bobbi would worry about explaining the exact method by which she received the order in the heat of the moment. To her, she got an order from Fury, and that's the germane information at the moment. 

 

One big knitpick I had was Weaver.  Why in the world is the woman wearing a skirt suit? ( and presumably heels)  This group has been working, and I use that term loosely, under the radar since SHIELD fell and the woman was supposedly rescued from some superpowered villian but she's dressed in full business attire.  I don't buy that.  Just like I don't buy it when women are dressed in skirts and heels no matter what they're doing in most shows.  Its a pet peeve of mine. 

 

She's administration, she dresses in business formal just like Gonzales and Coulson. And like many women, she must prefer skirt suits as opposed to pants suits. She's not in the field day-to-day, and Coulson's team was subdued with gas by the time they entered the Playground, so it doesn't really matter.

[JTMacc99]

Thats what I really want to know. How big actually is Real Shield? How many agents are working for them? What resources do they have that Coulsons Shield does not have? In fact, How big is Coulsons Shield? How many people do THEY have? 

 

I need numbers, people!

To be fair, and this is after I run it through my comic book filter, it takes a shitload of people to run an aircraft carrier. While most of them are going to be grunts, they still must have a pretty good sized group.

[Kel Varnsen]

Even if she received the order from Maria Hill under the guise of Fury's final commands before he died (or he contacted Bobbi before his death saying that if "x" happens in the next couple of days, then take out the carrier), I don't think Bobbi would worry about explaining the exact method by which she received the order in the heat of the moment. To her, she got an order from Fury, and that's the germane information at the moment. 

Yea there is lots of ways you can work around it. But at the same time she said "Fury contacted me before he died". Winter Soldier is probably my favourite marvel movie, so knowing what went down when Fury died, and what he knew (and the fact that most people think he is still dead) raises a lot of questions. It is probably not a big deal, it is just some bad/annoying writing. Especially since like I said the scene one the carrier happened at least 2-3 days after Fury's supposed death.

[ottoDbusdriver]

To be fair, and this is after I run it through my comic book filter, it takes a shitload of people to run an aircraft carrier. While most of them are going to be grunts, they still must have a pretty good sized group.

 

Agreed.  The normal complement on an aircraft carrier that size, like a Nimitz class-carrier, is 4000-5000 if you include the flight personnel.  So if half turned out to be Hydra and there were running gun battles all over the ship, Real SHIELD would be lucky to re-take the carrier and still have loyal 1000 people left (probably less since Hydra was intent on killing everyone who wasn't Hydra).  Which still sounds like a lot a people, but would be the bare minimum to operate the Iliad.

[sinkwriter]

 

Fitz is the one that defended her to everyone, kept her secret, and wouldn't betray her.  If they've got to do a romance for Skye, have her and Fitz be together, it's sure as hell more believable than Skye and anyone else on the team.

 

It would certainly be the most unusual romance, which is why I like the idea. It's rare that showrunners consider a unique path where one of the lead females ends up romantically interested in a "sidekick" kind of character. The idea of it twists standard romance on its head, and I'd like to see more shows branch out and explore something different.

 

Most shows go with the traditional -- Skye and Ward would have been the traditional romance path, for example. But now that Ward has done so much damage (and seems pretty delusional), there really isn't a way to redeem the guy, certainly not enough to make it okay for Skye to be with him. The dude is violent, crazy and convinced his actions are okay. There is no romance to be had between them anymore. It would be as offensive as a character marrying her rapist.

[ChelseaNH]

it takes a shitload of people to run an aircraft carrier. While most of them are going to be grunts

 

I confess, I have often wondered what SHIELD does for janitors and maintenance workers.  (Impersonating a janitor is an excellent way to wander around a corporate facility.)

[kennyab]

I confess, I have often wondered what SHIELD does for janitors and maintenance workers.  (Impersonating a janitor is an excellent way to wander around a corporate facility.)

 

Hah. I guess "Level 1" is a euphemism for scrubbing the toilets.

[Kel Varnsen]

I confess, I have often wondered what SHIELD does for janitors and maintenance workers.  (Impersonating a janitor is an excellent way to wander around a corporate facility.)

Why would the bad guys need to impersonate a janitor? They had a senator and a member of the world security council on the payroll.

 

I almost had to laugh when I think Lucy Lawless mentioned that she heard that Victoria Hand had secured The Hub. That was of course until she came across Ward. One more reason for these people to hate Coulson.

[Bruinsfan]

They were more than spies, they were soldiers with its own navy and air forces. And after Captain America stopped an attempt by Hydra to kill everybody with any leadership potential the US and presumably other governments went hunting for SHIELD assets. Hiding a couple of stealth airplanes and a few safe houses with a few resident agents around the world before Ward was turned over is one thing. Having a fleet aircraft carrier and possibly a helicarrier being hunted and hiding for months is a whole nother level of impossible

Those things are powered by nuclear reactors that can operate for years without refueling, and if it has the projective masking technology like the Helicarrier it would be effectively invisible. The main limitation would be how much the ship was carrying in the way of supplies.

 

Also this might be a dumb question, but if all of SHIELD's plans have vertical take off and landing capabilities, then why would you design your big ship like a standard air craft carrier with a huge runway?

Remember that some of the planes in The Avengers were the ordinary sort rather than VTOL quinjets: the fighters the Hulk destroyed in the interior hangar during his fight with Thor, the one he jumped onto that blew up, and the ones carrying nukes that Fury was only half successful in shooting down.

[sinkwriter]

No wonder Gonzales hates Coulson. He's stuck in the middle of the ocean on a carrier while Coulson's galavanting around the world with all the coolest toys.  ;)

[ChelseaNH]

Why would the bad guys need to impersonate a janitor? They had a senator and a member of the world security council on the payroll.

 

1.  I'm going on the assumption that there are more bad guys in the world than just Hydra.

2.  It's a tactic that SHIELD has no doubt used against others, and would therefore be aware could be used against them.

Edited April 2, 2015 by ChelseaNH

[Humbugged]

Why would the bad guys need to impersonate a janitor? They had a senator and a member of the world security council on the payroll.

 

I almost had to laugh when I think Lucy Lawless mentioned that she heard that Victoria Hand had secured The Hub. That was of course until she came across Ward. One more reason for these people to hate Coulson.

 

Why ?     Coulson had Ward foisted upon him by Maria Hill .And then Vic let Ward get on the plane with her because she thought he would put Garrett down for her .

 

2 errors of judgement none of which were Phil's.

 

And why is to blame for Hartley's death ? That puzzled me last week.

She was on an op to stop secret tech being sold off by former SHIELD agents .She then ignored a big sign saying don't open me that cost her her arm and then was murdered by a HYDRA asset that Coulson then neutralized ,captured and handed over to the Government

[Andromeda]

I love Phil Coulson. While I also love Edward James Olmos, I'm definitely on Old Shield's side. I imagine they'll all end up working together -- after all, Coulson was able to win General Talbot over to his side (He recognizes Coulson as SHIELD, and his backing might help with his cause that he's the real leader of SHIELD).

 

I never quite warmed up to Bobbi, so I wouldn't care if she disappeared at some point. Mack's OK, when he's not being an infil-traitor. And Hunter is growing on me.

 

Do they have luaus in Tahiti? Because that final scene was somewhere there are luaus (there was a sign), so I assumed it was Hawaii. It's a specifically Hawaiian feast.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Andromeda

[sinkwriter]

 

Mack's OK, when he's not being an infil-traitor.

 

I think that's what made me saddest, maddest and most frustrated. Poor Fitz already had one guy betray him, someone he thought had become a good friend. Mack's an even closer friend, because he helped Fitz through a lot of struggle with his brain injury, so for Mack to do this... it just kills me.

[xander874]

As a child of the 80s, I was sad that MacKenzie Astin died after 30 seconds. He's not big per se, but I can't imagine he won't pop up again. At least I hope so.

[redfish]

I mostly enjoyed the episode but I agree with those that posted that if this "Real SHEILD" is so great, why the secrecy and deception.  I totally agree with those that said that this group is mostly about being against superpowers.

 

I want to know what the differences SHIELD and "real" SHIELD? How are they different? Other than "real" SHIELD seem like a feral version of SHIELD, like Pegasus in Battlestar Galactica, a hardcore version. I think Coulson is still deluding himself to believe that the SHIELD he has now is different (even without the Hydra agents) because the problem they had before the fall was never really resolved.