S02.E03: Raising the Roof

[cooksdelight]

I've rewatched that episode so many times.... they were in the car going to Shep's cabin and Kathryn said "If I get pregnant, we're getting married right away."

Which leaves a lot of questions. Did T-Rav agree to this? Is this just Kathryn's dream?

Which should probably be answered in their thread.

[Chicklet]

I can't believe Thomas is stupid enough to let Whitney do anything for his campaign except donating money. He's the least shrewd politician ever.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Chicklet

[OnceSane]

T-Rav is more concerned with looking like a cool playboy than seriously running for office. The Senate run is just something to pass the time, IMO.

[lunastartron]

Kathryn may have her flaws, but, vis-a-vis her pregnancy, how was she by any stretch of definition "conniving" and "deceitful"? How did she "toy" with people? The fact of the matter is that she had sex with men who were 50, 34, and 46 at the time of the respective assignations. The premise that a 21-year-old party girl could somehow pull the wool over the eyes of men like Shep, Whitney, and Thomas - who are all urbane, well educated, and have been around the proverbial block in various contexts - is not logical to me at all. In terms of the pregnancy that actually occurred, Kathryn herself was about as transparent as she could be when it came to her stay-at-home-mom ambitions. Likewise, Thomas himself approvingly mentioned on multiple occasions that she was a "fertile Myrtle." In terms of the disgruntlement that Kathryn has displayed over the season and in this most recent episode, I don't see why it's a matter of course that she deserves disrespect and contempt just because she happened to have aspirations that were identical to those harbored by many contemporary women and commensurate with certain cultural programming (ie marry well, have a baby, etc). If she's unhappy and disenchanted with the reality of motherhood, well, a lot of new mothers who specifically envisioned being a mom and set about achieving that vision in ideal circumstances also find the practical concerns of caring for a new baby stifling, boring, depressing, and/or challenging. It doesn't make them bad people or selfish women who are going to damage their kids. While I do agree that Kathryn should learn to coo and baby Thomas (and watch reruns of, say, Alexis Bellino or Yolanda Foster) if she definitely wants a ring from him, it doesn't look like that acquiescence is in her nature, so good for her on calling out Whitney's antagonism and Thomas's use of her friends in his advertisement. She just had the baby, so I hope she's able to eventually achieve some sort of independence and self-sufficiency, or find a husband who appreciates her assertiveness.

[cooksdelight]

The premise that a 21-year-old party girl could somehow pull the wool over the eyes of men like Shep, Whitney, and Thomas - who are all urbane, well educated, and have been around the proverbial block in various contexts - is not logical to me at all.

Alcohol makes people do strange things.

[lisalionheart]

Why is it "irrational and immature" for Kathryn to point out the lack of logic in the contention that no budget exists for a family spot? Why is Kathryn supposedly embarrassing and a threat to his nominal legitimacy that needs to be secreted away yet it's a good idea to highlight a party boy past by dancing on camera with young girls who aren't the mother of one's infant child? She's actually the only one talking about the campaign on camera who makes any sense whatsoever.

 

 

Thomas seems to be getting sort of close to gaslighting--he's so committed to the story line that she is the irrational and misbehaving one in the relationship.

 

I love Cameran's mother.

 

Craig doesn't look healthy.

[RedHawk]

I thought Thomas was sincere when he said after their discussion about Jen in the car, "Good talk." Like he was trying to understand Kathryn's point of view, and especially her comments that they needed to respect each other, and he appreciated that they could talk it over. I see beneath their immaturity a glimmer of sense, but Thomas, even at 52, is just not relationship ready and so probably never will be. He's as set in his ways as most of us over 50 are, and he doesn't seem to love, respect, or even care enough about Kathryn to do the work needed to understand her needs and blend them with his. Both would have to have very good communication skills and a deep commitment to the relationship in order to make it work and be happy together, and there's little evidence of that. 

[missy jo]

Craig is such a sad vessel of wasted opportunity---here he is, good-looking young fun dude with the chance to use his social circuiting to become a successful and powerful local attorney, yet he obviously only aspires to be another wastoid playboy trust-funder like Shep, Whitney or TRav. That's just sad.

 

 

Cameran said it perfectly in her TH: "Craig doesn't have the privilege of being privileged." I still like Craig, and I was like that in my 20s, too, so I understand it to a point. But I'm glad he has Cameran there to give him a reality-check on the ridiculousness of his VIP-room goals.

 

I think Kathryn and T-Rav have about, um, let's see ... a ZERO chance of staying together. Unfortunately, I just don't see real love there between them. They seem to be gritting their teeth and trying to power through it, but that date night was painful and they don't have any chemistry together. But I'm confident they'll be able to co-parent in a mature way if and when it comes to that.

 

And yes, of course, it makes much better sense for Thomas to have done a family-themed campaign ad, but do y'all really think Whitney was going to allow that?

 

As far as Jen, totally agree on the too-harsh make-up. And yes, she and T-Rav hooked up back in the day, but as he said, he knows her better these days from her living in his house with his friend, than as girlfriend material. I see why Kathryn would feel insecure knowing that he confided in her about their relationship, but ... take it up with Thomas, honey. Or, then again, don't - he's allowed to have friends.

Edited April 1, 2015 by missy jo

[biakbiak]

I thought Thomas was sincere when he said after their discussion about Jen in the car, "Good talk." Like he was trying to understand Kathryn's point of view, and especially her comments that they needed to respect each other, and he appreciated that they could talk it over. I see beneath their immaturity a glimmer of sense, but Thomas, even at 52, is just not relationship ready and so probably never will be. He's as set in his ways as most of us over 50 are, and he doesn't seem to love, respect, or even care enough about Kathryn to do the work needed to understand her needs and blend them with his. Both would have to have very good communication skills and a deep commitment to the relationship in order to make it work and be happy together, and there's little evidence of that.

Different strokes for different folk. I took "good talk" to mean he was dismissing her concerns and not giving a shit about her feelings!

[Sun-Bun]

Different strokes for different folk. I took "good talk" to mean he was dismissing her concerns and not giving a shit about her feelings!

Yeah, I kinda took it as yet another sarcastic quip masked as genuine appreciation too. Especially since he seems to roll his eyes over Kathryn's constant restrictive warning attacks and appears far more weary of her inarticulate attempts to reason with him and to make their relationship a mutually beneficial one.

[RedHawk]

I thought it possible that he was being sarcastic yet gave him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, I suspect their biggest problem is that he's an alcoholic. She does seem to be trying desperately to control his behavior after he's had a few. Now that she's mostly sober because of Kensie, Thomas' heavy drinking doesn't look "fun" the way it did when they were partying and falling into bed together. If he's truly like that much of the time, I feel very sorry for her and hope she will separate from him from him permanently.

Edited April 1, 2015 by cooksdelight

[RedHawk]

Kathryn also did something during the car conversation that I just hated. She made the threat that she would take "her daughter" and go. Thomas seemed to have heard that one before and I'm sure Kathryn said it the first time not long after Kensie was born. It's so ugly to use a child that way. I feel that if they don't handle their custody issues well, and/or if T-Rav's drinking escalates, there will be a huge court battle.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Totally agree. I've known girls like Kathryn. Working doesn't appeal to them. Staying at Mom and Dad's forever isn't going to fly either. Gotta get married and he has to be wealthy in order to allow her to stay home, go out and party, and look great all the while.

 

When I was in college there was a girl on my dorm floor who admitted she was only there to get her "Mrs." degree.  It was a completely foreign concept to me but she was such a nice person and fun to be around that it almost didn't matter that we orbited in vastly different worlds.

 

And then there's Kathryn. 

 

Funny how Thomas now realizes their age difference might be too much when it certainly didn't matter pre-pregnancy.  He's a dick.

[RedHawk]

Well, it actually did matter to him. There was an episode where he broke it off with her -- before she got pregnant -- and tearfully(!) said, "This can't work! I'm an old man." He also expressed the same thoughts to his minister. He was smart enough to know he shouldn't be with her but too stupid and needy to stay away.

[bichonblitz]

How are these guys renting a fully-furnished million plus condo? The sellers can't sell this place in Beverly Hills, South Carolina? No houses for sale in the real BH go begging.

 

It's on an island that is a summer vacation destination. There are a gazillion beach houses for rent on the islands surrounding Charleston. They are investments,, people that own them use them occassionally and rent them out for alot of money per week or month. 

[bichonblitz]

Kathryn may have her flaws, but, vis-a-vis her pregnancy, how was she by any stretch of definition "conniving" and "deceitful"? How did she "toy" with people?

 

I was responding to a post that said she may have told them she was on birth control when she wasn't. I also said that if it was true, then she was conniving and deceitful. Is there another word for someone that would do that? 

And yes, if you know that your lie could result in a baby, which is a life changing situation,  your are toying with them. 

[wootza]

crappy editing in the scene between kathryn and jenn... was so distracted watching jenn's necklace change during the conversation... 

 

landon reminds me of the actress kathryn hahn (rabbi raquel in transparent)...

 

 

[sadie]

I just dislike Thomas more and more. He acts like this 20 year old outsmarted him and now he's stuck. Dude you are a 50 something year old man who couldn't keep his hands off a stupid young girl and now he is going to torment, disrespect and antagonize her. What a great guy indeed. If he were truly a man he would have said to her, once pregnant, that he had no intention dope settling down, would take care of her and his baby financially and then work to have as good a situation as it could have been. To watch him and Whitney disparage her, make fun of her and basically treat her like crap turns my stomach. And I am no Kathyrnn fan, I think she is very immature, but I could have figured that out 5 minutes after meeting her and would have never slept with her. Thomas is a mean drunk and well, just mean. I hope he gets what's coming to him. And man-child Whitney can just disappear right now with his "model girlfriend ". Just bleach!

Sorry auto correct "just blech" yuk!

[gunderda]

Katherine should just cut her losses, get him to buy her a house in town and she'll be set with child support for 18 years. 

I really only think she's staying because of the money.  But that isn't worth being miserable all the time. 

 

I found it very interesting that Thomas drove to Shep/Whitney's party by himself because Katherine was taking too long.  Isn't that an hour + drive one way?? 

 

And then it was also sad during their 'date' when Katherine said she thought they should do a date night one a week and Thomas said he was too busy. And that wasn't even said as a convincing excuse. 

[Neurochick]

I just dislike Thomas more and more. He acts like this 20 year old outsmarted him and now he's stuck. Dude you are a 50 something year old man who couldn't keep his hands off a stupid young girl and now he is going to torment, disrespect and antagonize her. What a great guy indeed. If he were truly a man he would have said to her, once pregnant, that he had no intention dope settling down, would take care of her and his baby financially and then work to have as good a situation as it could have been. To watch him and Whitney disparage her, make fun of her and basically treat her like crap turns my stomach. And I am no Kathyrnn fan, I think she is very immature, but I could have figured that out 5 minutes after meeting her and would have never slept with her. Thomas is a mean drunk and well, just mean. I hope he gets what's coming to him. And man-child Whitney can just disappear right now with his "model girlfriend ". Just bleach!

Sorry auto correct "just blech" yuk!

 

I wonder which one wants the relationship, Thomas or Kathryn?  I don't like Thomas disrespecting Kathryn.   I also think Kathryn probably thought Thomas would change if he became a father.  People don't change unless they want to change.  Thomas doesn't want to change.  Kathryn should cut her losses and leave the plantation.

[cooksdelight]

It just dawned on me how Landon left a rich man she was married to because he wasn't there and the money didn't make up for being alone all the time.

And we have Kathryn who's staying in a bad relationship with a man who's not there for her because it gives her a comfortable lifestyle.

[RedHawk]

So far it seems like SHE is the one still hoping for a ring and a marriage. Her TH early in the episode where she said there was a lot of "Southern trash" around Charleston who were all "like, ooo, Thomas Ravenel" and throwing themselves at what she seemed to be asserting was HER man. She wants to be the one to hook him, but how long before she realizes he's no catch?

I think after possibly seeing a few more examples on camera of his ugly behavior only the most stupid and desperate women would want him.

Run, Kathryn, run!

Edited April 1, 2015 by RedHawk

[izabella]

So far it seems like SHE is the one still hoping for a ring and a marriage. Her TH early in the episode where she said there was a lot of "Southern trash" around Charleston who were all "like, ooo, Thomas Ravenel" and throwing themselves at what she seemed to be asserting was HER man. She wants to be the one to hook him, but how long before she realizes he's no catch?

 

How does Kathryn not see that she is no different from the "Southern trash" who are all "like, ooo, Thomas Ravenel"?  Isn't that exactly what Kathryn did herself - "ooo, Thomas Ravenel!  I'm gonna have Thomas Ravenel's baby and marry Thomas Ravenel!"  Oh, wait, I guess the difference is she is a scion and the other women are "Southern trash."

Edited April 1, 2015 by izabella

[JenE4]

In the epitome of Southern Charm, Kathryn throws her napkin in Thomas's face and storms out of the restaurant, and T-Rav stands up because a gentleman always rises when a lady leaves the table. That cracked me up to no end. Also, EVERYONE at the party wearing white pants because, as someone noted (Shep or T-Rav) that it was the last day to wear white pants. So, I guess this means it was a Labor Day party, but who rents a beach house at the END of the summer? They made it sounds like it was their summer rental.

[sadie]

I agree Kathyrnn is a bit delusional but part of that is Thomas' fault. If he would say to her " I don't love you, I don't respect you, I dont want to live with you or marry you. I love our daughter and will support you both but the rest is never going to happen" I think she would get it. Instead he is shacking up with her and in my opinion sending her mixed messages. She's immature, of course she's going to read between the lines to hear what she wants, shes 22 for gosh sake. I expect him to finally be the adult here and stop leading her on with the absence of his honesty. Meaning he isn't outright lying to her but he also isn't being forthright. I think he likes 24/7 access to his daughter, which he knows he won't have if they move out so he is stringing the situation along. It's actually heartbreaking to watch.

[RedHawk]

So, I guess this means it was a Labor Day party, but who rents a beach house at the END of the summer? They made it sound like it was their summer rental.

 

 

I thought the same thing. But I guess it's all down to wonky editing. It wouldn't surprise me if what we will see as the events at the beach house "over the summer" were actually filmed in a 3-day period at the end of August.

[SFoster21]

The poster that answered my question about the rental pointed out that these homes were used in the summer by their owners and rented out when they weren't there. No doubt the rates are lower after Labor Day and it's a warm climate, so summer probably lasts through Sept.

Edited April 1, 2015 by SFoster21

[scrb]

I bet the show is paying for that beach house rental.

[LucyHoneychrrch]

Craig is beginning to look more and more bilious in every scene.  Drink some water, for heaven's sake.  He now looks perpetually sweaty.  I bet he smells like stale beer all the time. 

 

I'm feeling sorry for Kathryn, because good old TRav very clearly does not give one rat's hindquarters what she thinks, wants or needs.  But I'm simultaneously frustrated with her, because I feel like if she wanted, she could manipulate the hell out of him.  She's not stupid; she's just blinded by this weirdo obsession.  

 

Whitney is terrible, and perhaps the most unintentionally hilarious part of this show.  I can certainly see why his filmmaking career never took off, judging from the end product.  It's worth noting that as much as he touts his film "Ultrasuede," it was almost universally crucified by reviewers as a narcissistic garbage heap.

[cooksdelight]

I had to do some freeze frames of the show to be sure, but the house is still for sale:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3019-Marshall-Blvd_Sullivans-Island_SC_29482_M65973-85401?row=27

And Thomas arrived in a chauffeur-driven car, he got out of the back of a black Lincoln Town Car. Must have started partying early.

The editing is indeed wonky on this show. Thomas announced he was running for senate around the fourth of July, so that's why there was a parade when he was passing out bumper stickers and shaking hands. Now it's Labor Day. And they did say it was a summer rental. Weird.

ETA: The property history is interesting. It was delisted twice in October, which may have been when they were filming. And not relisted again until this month....hoping the show would bring interest, I guess?

03/12/2015 Relisted $1,699,000

10/21/2014 Delisted — — —

10/21/2014 Listed $1,699,000

10/03/2014 Delisted — — —

04/12/2014 Listed $1,699,000

05/09/2005 Sold $800,000

[KicksandGiggles]

In the epitome of Southern Charm, Kathryn throws her napkin in Thomas's face and storms out of the restaurant, and T-Rav stands up because a gentleman always rises when a lady leaves the table. That cracked me up to no end. Also, EVERYONE at the party wearing white pants because, as someone noted (Shep or T-Rav) that it was the last day to wear white pants. So, I guess this means it was a Labor Day party, but who rents a beach house at the END of the summer? They made it sounds like it was their summer rental.

 

I just came to post the exact same thing. I adore those Southern manners!

 

One other thing that I just can't get out of my head; what is up with Landon's (and her sister's) accent? It doesn't really sound Southern to me, more British-Southern, it that makes any sense? That, or maybe she has a pierced tongue?

[Alison]

I just dislike Thomas more and more. He acts like this 20 year old outsmarted him and now he's stuck. Dude you are a 50 something year old man who couldn't keep his hands off a stupid young girl and now he is going to torment, disrespect and antagonize her. What a great guy indeed. If he were truly a man he would have said to her, once pregnant, that he had no intention dope settling down, would take care of her and his baby financially and then work to have as good a situation as it could have been. To watch him and Whitney disparage her, make fun of her and basically treat her like crap turns my stomach. And I am no Kathyrnn fan, I think she is very immature, but I could have figured that out 5 minutes after meeting her and would have never slept with her. Thomas is a mean drunk and well, just mean. I hope he gets what's coming to him. And man-child Whitney can just disappear right now with his "model girlfriend ". Just bleach!

Sorry auto correct "just blech" yuk!

Whitney is old enough to be her father, so for him to be making such mean, cutting remarks to her is just awful. And, seeing what he says to her in the previews for next week about Kensie being embarrassed about her mother...that just made me see red. Someone needs to slap the smirk off that renob's face.

[Sage47]

Landon's accent is something I've never heard. I have lived in Georgia (where she's from) for the last four years and she sounds nothing like native Georgians.

 

Whitney IS a renob. He is so nasty to and about Kathryn, it's disgusting. Thomas is repulsive too, cracking on Kathryn with Whitney. They are pathetic. Twice now I've seen where he and Kathryn arrive separately at events and he gives her a quick peck on the cheek. What happened to all their chemistry? It is long gone. He seems to barely tolerate her and can't even be bothered to wait for her to go to that beach house party? He's a total renob himself.

 

I really like Cameran but I secretly wish she would do something stupid so that they could talk about her a little. It's annoying that she's so "perfect".

 

[Lola16]

It just dawned on me how Landon left a rich man she was married to because he wasn't there and the money didn't make up for being alone all the time.

And we have Kathryn who's staying in a bad relationship with a man who's not there for her because it gives her a comfortable lifestyle.

That's Landon's version of why her marriage dissolved.  Unlike with Thomas and Kathryn, her relationship wasn't filmed.  

 

I don't think there's a lot of similarities besides the men having been married prior to each relationship.  Landon was much older and a college grad when she met her husband and they were together for 7 years (iirc) before she left.  Kathryn as we all know is much younger, didn't finish school as far as we can tell, and has been involved with Thomas for just over 1 year.  Plus they have a child together.  That generally impacts couples staying together longer than they should.

[cooksdelight]

Oh, I know, but I just thought it was funny in a weird sort of way. :)

[RedHawk]

I also appreciate the contrast. Landon also mentioned that her mother had said to her, "I want you to have the white picket fence and the life that goes with it" or something like that. And Landon later had told her, "There's nothing behind that facade." Yet Kathryn seems to think that being the wife of "Thomas Ravenel" will give her this special status and a great lifestyle. She is too young and naive to see that her relationship with Thomas has already been the best it's ever going to get.

[Sage47]

Something very interesting was when Landon's sister said something along the lines that Landon's mom might really be secretly be jealous of Landon getting divorced, wishing she had had the guts to divorce their father years back.

[missy jo]

In the epitome of Southern Charm, Kathryn throws her napkin in Thomas's face and storms out of the restaurant, and T-Rav stands up because a gentleman always rises when a lady leaves the table. That cracked me up to no end.

 

 

I noticed that too, LOL. "He still got up out of his chair!"

 

Also, EVERYONE at the party wearing white pants because, as someone noted (Shep or T-Rav) that it was the last day to wear white pants.

 

 

Southern Charm is the only Bravo show where a straight man would know that fashion rule.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Cooper rules.

 

TRav's conceit was never on better display than when he kept insisting that he had to blunt "attacks" by his opponents.  He was a total non-entity to them.  

 

Cameran's house is way more amazing than I had imagined.  Didja see the red Jaguar parked in the driveway?  Hubby bought/leased her Beamer, and he obviously has another fabulous car which he used to get to/from work that day.  How does she get away with half-assing her duties at home along with her career aspirations and her producing and appearing on this show?  Heck, odds that she keeps that place without maid service and landscapers?  

 

While I thoroughly enjoyed watching Brian's beatdown of Whitney's absentee partnership, I have to say: Dude, you KNOW this guy and you went into it, anyway.  Just what separates his character from Shep, whom you trashed?

[JenE4]

Southern Charm is the only Bravo show where a straight man would know that fashion rule.

And also wear white pants altogether.

[Alison]

What do you guys think of Whitney's "girlfriend"? From the brief glimpse of her she looks young - maybe not as young as Kathryn, but definitely nowhere near Renob's age. Interesting that they waited until the third episode of the season to mention her...

[TVForever]

What do you guys think of Whitney's "girlfriend"? From the brief glimpse of her she looks young - maybe not as young as Kathryn, but definitely nowhere near Renob's age. Interesting that they waited until the third episode of the season to mention her...

 

        Honestly, the word "beard" comes to mind. Just sayin'...

[JenE4]

What do you guys think of Whitney's "girlfriend"? From the brief glimpse of her she looks young - maybe not as young as Kathryn, but definitely nowhere near Renob's age. Interesting that they waited until the third episode of the season to mention her...

She was on last season; she visited Whitney in one episode.

[Alison]

She was on last season; she visited Whitney in one episode.

Ahh yes, I vaguely remember that. Was she labeled as a girlfriend in that episode, or just a friend?

[JenE4]

Ahh yes, I vaguely remember that. Was she labeled as a girlfriend in that episode, or just a friend?

Girlfriend. IIRC, I think Patricia didn't approve because, well, she never approves of anyone or anything that anyone does with the exception of martini-making skills.

[cooksdelight]

Every time I hear Whitney mention this girl, he always makes a point to refer to her as a "model." As he did in this episode. It reminds me of Frasier bragging that he was dating a model, who no one ever saw, so they didn't believe him.

[pasdetrois]

Charm goes only so far when an aging, drunken fool makes nasty cracks about his wife. Thomas, we're going to have to tie you to a front porch, hand you some sweet tea, and limit you to talking charmingly about history and food and houses and hunting dogs and stuff. 'Cause you've got a real ugly side, especially when liquored up.

 

Kathryn wants to control and manipulate Thomas; she doesn't love him.

 

I can't decide if Whitney really thought those campaign ads were a good idea, or if he passively-aggressively tried to sabotage Thomas' campaign. How could Thomas not recognize how godawful they were?

 

I think Thomas and Kathryn arrive separately to events because they weren't living together during production. I think he was living in town and she may have been faking about living way out on Edisto Island.

 

Gee, we finally saw a person of color at the Labor Day party.

[wovenloaf]

What do you guys think of Whitney's "girlfriend"? From the brief glimpse of her she looks young - maybe not as young as Kathryn, but definitely nowhere near Renob's age. Interesting that they waited until the third episode of the season to mention her...

She is 22, so their age difference is only a few years shy of Thomas and Kathryn's. Which makes it even more ridiculous when Whitney hates on that relationship. What a hypocrite. I guess Whitney sees the difference in that he hasn't knocked up his babe. This is her: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Marolt. 

[Alison]

She is 22, so their age difference is only a few years shy of Thomas and Kathryn's. Which makes it even more ridiculous when Whitney hates on that relationship. What a hypocrite. I guess Whitney sees the difference in that he hasn't knocked up his babe. This is her: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Marolt. 

Oh Whitney, you know what they say about people living in glass houses....

[seasquared]

Given that Whitney is the Executive Producer of this show, I'm guessing he gets final say on the edits and probably does his best to cast his crush Thomas in as good as light as possible. If what is airing is the BEST of Thomas's behavior,  I can only imagine the footage that doesn't make the show regarding his treatment of Kathryn.