S03.E03: Persuasion

[radishcake]

Norman's relationship with Emma weakens his bond with Norma; Romero asks Norman some hard questions.

 

[Primetimer]

Norma drives her son madder -- not that it was a long trip -- but the real focus of the episode is the set-up for the seasonal mystery: who's bringing in pricey escorts and killing them off?

Read the story

[riverheightsnancy]

Poor Norman. He is really starting to lose it. what did Annika say at the end? I couldn't hear it. Was that a flash drive?

[tennisgurl]

Norman makes me sad. Norma really should have got him therapy ages ago.

 

I cant get over the scene of cute little Emma driving her little bug, in her ridiculous "disguise", her car so stuffed with pot plants she can hardly see, looking all nervous, all the way to Dylan's farm. And I swear, I thought they were playing Pass the Dutchie for a second! Funniest scene we've had in ages! 

Edited March 24, 2015 by tennisgurl

[ganesh]

That was a flash drive. She said, "use it for you and your son."

 

Based on Norman not actually killing Annika, I'm less convinced he killed Watson, and I was pretty skeptical from the start. I think his first "legit" kill is going to be Emma because she is hot to trot.

 

I mean, the whole point of the show is Norman becoming *Norman*, right? Watson's killing was essentially "off screen". If he going to really snap that first kill needs to be something we see in real time, *and* it has to have a really big impact. We've seen Mother on screen now plenty of times. We need to see that other shoe dropping.

 

I also think Dylan is going to kill Caleb. 

[Guest]

Norma drives her son madder -- not that it was a long trip -- but the real focus of the episode is the set-up for the seasonal mystery: who's bringing in pricey escorts and killing them off?

 I kind of got the feeling the 'new sheriff in town' might be killing the hookers to make Romero seem inept and in-electable?

 

It'd be kind of fun if it was Caleb.  

[thuganomics85]

Ah, so the character who is apparently hosting these sex parties is played by Mad Men's Kevin Rahm!  Should have known that Ted Chaough had a kinky side to him!

 

Good news!  Norman didn't kill Annika!  Bad news!  Someone apparently just did. And, her last dying moment was coming back to the motel to give Norma and Norman a flash drive.  I guess we'll see where this is going.  Obviously, the first suspect would probably be Ted/rich sex party guy.  The next one is this new guy who is gunning for Romero's sheriff position.

 

Yep, Norman is getting full-blown angry now.  Norma's mixture of babying him and automatically assuming the worst about him, is finally reaching the breaking point.  I did get a kick out of the interrogation scene and Norman getting annoyed with her, because it was totally like he wanted to say "Damn it, Mother!  I can handle this!  Next time I'm a suspect or questioned about a murder, just leave me alone!"  But, overall, it's kind of sad again, because it's one of those things were I think if he got counseling or something, he might have a chance.  But, obviously, that is never going to happen.  We already know what he will become.

 

Well, they found a brief way to make me enjoy Dylan's drug plot.  Having Emma haul all those pot plants in her little car, was a sight to behold.  And, it lead to some Dylan/Emma interactions, which I always enjoy, since they're like the only two people closest to normal on this show.  I still wish they would move past this though.  I'm guessing whatever the endgame is, it is involving Caleb somehow.

 

Norma taking business courses at a community college, just makes me wonder what Norma would be like in Greendale.  Which means, I totally want to see that happen.  Spin-off time!

[molshoop]

 

I think if he got counseling or something, he might have a chance

 

   I think Norma should call that therapist and ask about a family discount.

[Racj82]

That was a flash drive. She said, "use it for you and your son."

 

Based on Norman not actually killing Annika, I'm less convinced he killed Watson, and I was pretty skeptical from the start. I think his first "legit" kill is going to be Emma because she is hot to trot.

 

I mean, the whole point of the show is Norman becoming *Norman*, right? Watson's killing was essentially "off screen". If he going to really snap that first kill needs to be something we see in real time, *and* it has to have a really big impact. We've seen Mother on screen now plenty of times. We need to see that other shoe dropping.

 

I also think Dylan is going to kill Caleb. 

The whole thing with Norman is that he literally splits into being his mother when he kills in the future. It was Norman as "mommy" that killed the teacher. Right now he's talking with Norma inside his own head. Eventually, he's just going to be himself and his mother having both sides of the conversation at the same time. The incident with his teacher was his first full personality split.

[MarkySnark]

Re: The Norma in Norman's head that he was chatting with in the bathroom. Veeeeerrrrryyyy creepy that he would have his fantasy mother remove his belt.

[turbogirlnyc]

I had hoped the Caleb story would last three episodes at most. Since his name appears in the credits before Romero's, I guess he's here to stay. So much for watching Bates Motel in real time. Caleb gives me the creeps big time.

I'm curious about the wannabe sheriff. Did anyone else get the idea that there won't be an election unless Romero wants to give up the position? Or will there be an election regardless? If that's the case, I smell trouble ahead.

[Fable]

I'm starting to think Emma may be in danger.  Even though Norma loves her, if she starts acting seductive towards Norman, his "inner Mother" might start to see her as a "questionable woman", and we know that can't end well. 

 

It seems like Norman's descent into full blown psycho is being rapidly accelerated this season.  I'm almost wondering if he doesn't kill Norma this season with Vera playing the part of "mother in his head."  This is the first episode where I actually felt palpable fear for Norma and worried that something would happen to her.  (With that in mind, I wonder if this series will end once Norman actually kills her or if they will continue with Vera in the role of Norman's "inner mother.")

[truthaboutluv]

If anyone needs therapy, it's definitely Norma - well Norman more than her but they both could use it. I imagine the guy is going to show up a little more this season but I can't see Norma fully opening up to him because it would mean talking about what's wrong with Norman and possibly mentioning his killing his dad and likely Ms. Watson (not sure if she still believes he did it or not since he passed the polygraph) and I can't see her doing that with a stranger. At the end of the day her need to protect Norman will override everything. Especially now that she knows for certain he didn't kill Anika after all. Of course she did look overwhelmed before Anika showed up and like she'd reached her end with what to do about Norman so maybe she will seek the help after all.

 

I'm glad that's been answered and I am glad the whole cold blooded killing the premiere hinted at didn't happen. Because as I noted, while we all know who and what Norman becomes, that would have been a tonal shift with the character since so far everyone he's killed he's either not known and did it a trance or it was an accident. And in the case of his dad and Ms. Watson, while murder is never okay, one was a violent, abusive drunk and the other a child predator or statutory rapist really since Norman was 16/17 at the time. Killing Anika would have been the first time he'd just coldly killed someone who'd done nothing to him. 

 

I like that instead it seems this season might be about his mentally breaking down under the weight of what he thinks Norma thinks about him and as he said to Emma, "if someone thinks you're bad, looks at you like you're bad 24 hours a day, eventually you start to think you really are bad." It's funny that for all that Norma has done to protect Norman, she may be the very thing that makes him start seeing and believing himself to be a monster which can only lead to really, really bad things.

 

So I guess that's the mystery of the season - this whole sex club business tied to the sheriff elections. I continue to love Romero's "no fucks" attitude. I guess it is entirely possible the show could throw a curveball at the end of the season and reveal that Norman did somehow meet that hooker after dropping off Anika and killed her, based on his hesitation before saying he'd never seen her in his life. But that would be a huge stretch in my opinion. I think it's more than likely he saw or heard more about Anika but he doesn't remember. Maybe he didn't just drop her off and she hung out with him a little longer and the friend showed up. 

 

Emma's dress was adorable and she looked gorgeous but I had to laugh at her obvious moves to tempt Norman because like who wears something like that in the middle of the day when you're only going to sit at a motel. It's not like they had some lunch date or dinner date later. It was just funny, well not really when you remember when sexually aggressive women can do to Norman at times.

 

Speaking of Emma, she and Dylan have really good chemistry. I wouldn't be surprised if the show went there because Dylan definitely looked like he was checking her out. And let's face it, drug business aside, he is the saner Bates brother. Also, I may have to rewatch, but did Emma and Gunnar ever have any kind of resolution? Because I remember them being kind of adorable last season but their hello to each other was oddly half-assed, especially for Emma, considering she lost her virginity to the guy. I do get the impression Dylan doesn't know what happened between them and she wasn't in a rush to tell him. 

 

Caleb continues to creep and annoy me and I loved that Emma couldn't even hide her reaction to seeing him, knowing the truth about him and his and Dylan's relationship. Dylan is just so trusting and eager for family but I just have a bad feeling about Caleb and think it is in his best interest to send him on his way. And his creepy pushiness only makes me believe even more Norma's version of things.

 

Based on Norman not actually killing Annika, I'm less convinced he killed Watson

 

 

Norman never remembered killing Anika. When he was trying to remember under water, all we saw was him dropping her off and flashes of him and Ms. Watson and him killing her but absolutely nothing violent between him and Anika. I think that was done deliberately and of course she later showed up alive, well at least until the gun shot wound killed her. Norman remembered explicitly killing Ms. Watson.

 

Norma convinced him that he was confused and his images were just distorted because he was locked in the box and was scared and so he hallucinated. And then "Mother" came out to take the blame so he could pass the polygraph. In my opinion, all that was done to clearly show that Norman did kill Ms. Watson, he's just still not fully conscious of it, even now. 

 

If he going to really snap that first kill needs to be something we see in real time, *and* it has to have a really big impact.

 

 

Speculation but I think that "big impact" murder is going to be of Norma which will likely be when the series ends. I think that is the murder that's really going to create the Norman Bates viewers met in Psycho. Before that he will continue to be a character teetering on the edge but he's still not fully split into Norman/Mother. So I don't think it matters we didn't "see" the Ms. Watson murder because while it's started his descend, he's still holding onto some level of sanity. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[ganesh]

It was Norman as "mommy" that killed the teacher.

 

We didn't see that in "real-time" onscreen, however. We saw a very weird flashback when Norman was literally buried in the ground. And I don't think we saw Mother in the flashback even though Mother made an appearance in real time earlier in the show. We've said this in the other thread, that's fine if he actually did kill Watson, but the way it was shot left plenty out doubt. 

 

It's funny that for all that Norma has done to protect Norman, she may be the very thing that makes him start seeing and believing himself to be a monster which can only lead to really, really bad things.

 

This seemed to be the premise of the show for me from the get go.

 

I think Norma needs to be the series ender killing because we essentially know what happens after that. For me the final shot should be Norman looking up at Mother in the window of the house. 

 

What I mean by impact, is we need to see Norman kill someone we actually know and have invested, in real time, on screen. I'll concede Watson for a second even though I don't believe it. We have Watson, which was a supporting character, then potentially Emma, whom we all seem to like, then Norma. 

I think the show would miss the point if Norman was killing a whole bunch of people. 

[Spartan Girl]

So was I the only one that thought -- before it was revealed to be Emma -- that the person getting all dolled up was Norman dressing up in his mother's clothes?  I know it's a little too soon for that but he definitely is going off the deep end. 

 

It's funny that for all that Norma has done to protect Norman, she may be the very thing that makes him start seeing and believing himself to be a monster which can only lead to really, really bad things.

 

My thoughts exactly.  I loved the scene where Norman was standing up to Norma, pointing out that he wanted to come forward and turn himself in, but Norma prevented him from doing it.  You know if Norma had gotten him help after he killed his dad, Miss Watson might still be alive.  How ironic that Norma's attempts to "cure" him without actually resorting to therapy are just driving him crazier.

 

Was shocked that Anica hadn't been killed -- by Norman anyway -- but who was the Jane Doe in the morgue?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Spartan Girl

[truthaboutluv]

Was shocked that Anica hadn't been killed -- by Norman anyway -- but who was the Jane Doe in the morgue?

 

 

She was a high-end prostitute which makes it look much likelier that she was killed by the creepy sex club people and they're probably who murdered Anika because she'd found information about what they're doing. At least I assume that's what's on the USB drive she gave to Norma. 

 

So was I the only one that thought -- before it was revealed to be Emma -- that the person getting all dolled up was Norman dressing up in his mother's clothes?

 

 

I actually thought it was Anika. Because once the body in the morgue was shown not to be her, I kind of had this feeling she was still alive. By the way, speaking of the morgue, Norma's making sure it wasn't Anika by getting all up in the dead woman's face was hilarious. Norma is so weird. 

 

I think the show would miss the point if Norman was killing a whole bunch of people.

 

 

True, but so far he's not. We now know that he really didn't do anything to Anika, he only killed his dad while he was assaulting Norma, Ms. Watson while she was inappropriately having sex with him and then Cody's dad in an accident because he was coming at him. 

[ganesh]

From here, I think anything more than 2, the second being Norma would be too much.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

By the way, speaking of the morgue, Norma's making sure it wasn't Anika by getting all up in the dead woman's face was hilarious. Norma is so weird.

I thought she was going to smell her.

[amensisterfriend]

Am I the only one who thought the psychologist was really bizarre?! Granted, by THIS show's standards, he was probably comparatively 'normal' ;) His petty nonsense in the classroom re. the chair was odd, and what kind of legitimate therapist trolls for new patients by rushing up to them them in parking lots, announcing that he can just tell by their faces that they had unhappy childhoods and pushily trying to get them to give him a call? Sure, WE know that Norma and her family are beyond screwed up, but it kind of strains credulity that this guy would based on nothing more than a brief interaction with her and a few inferences about her facial expressions. At one point I was convinced he was just hitting on her. 

 

As always, the acting was top notch last night. 

 

And I am really, really starting to fear for Emma's life. Her getting all 'dolled up' in this episode was an ominous sign...we know how Norman and Norma feel about "questionable" women who wear lipstick and slightly sexier clothes! ;) 

[Charlotte Vale]

I wonder how many takes they had to do before Vera and Morgue Girl didn't break up?

I hope the drive Norma now has will expose Ted Chaough's Sex Club and Wannabe Sheriff, and let Nestor keep his job.

[Snaporaz]

The psychology professor was "Josh" from The Blair Witch Project!

[Nutjob]

 

I'm curious about the wannabe sheriff. Did anyone else get the idea that there won't be an election unless Romero wants to give up the position? Or will there be an election regardless? If that's the case, I smell trouble ahead.

County Sheriff is an elected position in most U.S. states, and in Oregon they are elected for a four-year term, so the election will happen even if Romero runs unopposed.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Am I the only one who thought the psychologist was really bizarre?! Granted, by THIS show's standards, he was probably comparatively 'normal' ;) His petty nonsense in the classroom re. the chair was odd, and what kind of legitimate therapist trolls for new patients by rushing up to them them in parking lots, announcing that he can just tell by their faces that they had unhappy childhoods and pushily trying to get them to give him a call? Sure, WE know that Norma and her family are beyond screwed up, but it kind of strains credulity that this guy would based on nothing more than a brief interaction with her and a few inferences about her facial expressions. At one point I was convinced he was just hitting on her. 

I have no trouble buying a) that a college professor would go all passive-aggressive because someone "slighted" him by taking his preferred seat b) that a trained psychologist would be able to see through the thinnest of veneers and be able to detect the barely-concealed crazy of Norma and c) that he is trying to hook up with her as much as/more than offering actual therapy.

 

In fact, I definitely thought that he could end up being the boyfriend whose relationship with Norma brings Norman to the breaking point.

[ganesh]

He seemed more to be doing a cold read on Norma than analyzing her.

[Bec]

Last week was Vera's Emmy reel, this week is Freddie's Emmy reel.

 

It always bugs me when people who get badly wounded in movies (or TV shows) choose to go someplace other than straight to a hospital. Though I guess it makes some kind of sense in this case. Whoever shot Annika probably wants that flashdrive back and the first place they would logically look for her is the hospital. And now Norma is going to have to deal with whoever it is when they come looking for the flashdrive at the motel, because for sure it's going to become big-time town gossip that someone died of a gunshot wound in the Bates Motel parking lot. This is not going to improve the motel's yelp rating.

 

Emma interacting with Dylan was definitely the highlight of this hour. I wonder if Dylan is ever going to find out that Emma knows Caleb is his uncle-dad (and that Norman was the one who told her). That scene between them was super awkward (but in a good way. It was like "Oh, you know Gunner?" Emma's face: yes, in the biblical sense. OMG that's the uncle-dad I heard so much about! Dylan's face: oh crap, this could get back to Norma and Norman - also, must act like Caleb is just my uncle and there is nothing weird about him being here, nothing at all). Still, not quite enough awkward to top the super-duper awkward that was Norma and Romero.

 

I was getting excited at Dylan getting fed up with Caleb's BS, and then Caleb diffused the situation again with the old "take pity on me" ploy. Argh! When will this end? When will Dylan interact with Norma and Norman again? I just can't help but imagine how much more fun Norma and Norman's fight would have been if Dylan was there to make WTF faces at their antics. Though maybe that would have lessened the intensity of those scenes too much.

[Guest]

No, you weren't the only one.  The psych instructor was really unprofessional, twice.  I thought maybe Norma was joining a class in process but no, that was day 1 and the dude expected students to recognize HIS chair, in a circle of chairs.  Then soliciting someone for therapy because he can tell she needs it?  

Am I the only one who thought the psychologist was really bizarre?! Granted, by THIS show's standards, he was probably comparatively 'normal' ;) His petty nonsense in the classroom re. the chair was odd, and what kind of legitimate therapist trolls for new patients by rushing up to them them in parking lots, announcing that he can just tell by their faces that they had unhappy childhoods and pushily trying to get them to give him a call? Sure, WE know that Norma and her family are beyond screwed up, but it kind of strains credulity that this guy would based on nothing more than a brief interaction with her and a few inferences about her facial expressions. At one point I was convinced he was just hitting on her. 

 

 

Regarding Norma screwing up her kid while trying to help him, yeah, that's pretty much normal parenting.  

[tennisgurl]

"Mother" scenes always creep me the hell out.

 

He have to say, I laughed a bit when Norma was staring at the dead girl. It was so dramatic, then when she actually saw her, she was like "Wait...who the hell is this?"

 

Norma means well with Norman, but holy hell! This kid needs help!  

[ganesh]

That was the first day of class? Wouldn't the instructor rather have everyone come in and *then* arrange the chairs? I mean, it's professional to say what class it is first, check who is enrolled on the wait list, etc.

[queenanne]

It was bogus, any class I've ever been in someone would've whispered "That's Teach's seat."  Or Norma would've figured out by the placement of the whiteboard, that someone had to be by to manipulate it. 

 

Though, it was everybody's first day of the semester and class, right?  So really, there would be no such thing as "Teach's seat" for Norma to know she's trespassed upon.  It's kind of amusing though, that a psych professor at a community college would insist on a non-preferential, non-hierarchical circular seating arrangement.

[Sakura12]

Emma in disguise driving her Bug full of pot plants was the best ever! I really like when Emma and Dylan have scenes together, they have some chemistry too. Poor Dylan he doesn't know that Emma knows who Caleb is. He's just worried she'll tell Norma and Norman. What even happened with Emma and Gunner, I don't even remember when or how they broke up. Was it after the swimming thing? 

 

Vera's a brilliant actress, I always feel so uncomfortable for her when she has scenes with other people. That's great acting. The Psych teacher is just as strange as everyone else in that town. Freddie is great too, showing how unhinged Norman really is. His mother babying him is not helping in the slightest. You can really see that he will eventually snap and kill her. 

[Portia]

Norma's bitch-off with the professor over seating made me laugh out loud . . . and wince a bit. I teach at a state university and am currently embroiled in a bitter feud with an arrogant history professor who habitually holds his students too long and allows me insufficient time to set up for my 11 o'clock class. I think this guy is the biggest asshat in the history of academia, and he thinks I'm . . . well, I suspect he thinks I'm Norma.

[green]

...   I wonder if Dylan is ever going to find out that Emma knows Caleb is his uncle-dad (and that Norman was the one who told her). That scene between them was super awkward (but in a good way. It was like "Oh, you know Gunner?" Emma's face: yes, in the biblical sense. OMG that's the uncle-dad I heard so much about!  ...

 

I hope Emma keeps a giant flowchart in her room at home marked out with who told her what and who she can and cannot share certain information with.  Cause I can't see how she keeps all these secrets, semi-secrets, rumors and factoids all straight as to who should know or not know what at any given moment.

 

At least the hunt club plot doesn't involve "the weed business" directly.  But we still have Dylan out in some spin-off series that could be called The Endless Weed Subplot Blues show.  Caleb is not only bad but a total one note bore.  Dylan deserves his fate because he is the stupidest Bates alive (which is saying something) to hang out with all the seemingly endless parade of losers throughout the series.  Caleb, and maybe Chick now, are just the icing on Dylan's "I'm Really Dumb in Choosing Who I Hang With" cake.

 

Little Norman is growing up right in front of our eyes.  Anthony Perkins would have been proud of what Freddie Highmore has done in this re-imagined prequel.

 

Norma and Norman are the heart of the show.  Like the Sheriff bits, they work for me within the structure of the show.  But the endless Dylan stuff -- especially with "weed wars" and/or Caleb in the mix -- bogs the show down.  I don't care if it all ties back into the main plot eventually.  Not worth any future tie-in for me.  It ruins the pace and focus of the show and I'd be fine if both Dylan and Caleb met their demise sooner than later at this point.

Edited March 25, 2015 by green

[ganesh]

It's kind of amusing though, that a psych professor at a community college would insist on a non-preferential, non-hierarchical circular seating arrangement.

 

And then insist where to sit. Should it not matter then?

 

Oh, I just walk in class if it's my time and they're still there and start setting up myself. 

[queenanne]

The whole thing with Norman is that he literally splits into being his mother when he kills in the future. It was Norman as "mommy" that killed the teacher. Right now he's talking with Norma inside his own head. Eventually, he's just going to be himself and his mother having both sides of the conversation at the same time. The incident with his teacher was his first full personality split.

 

Yeah, On second watch, I’m not seeing it as cut-and-dried as “clearly Norman couldn’t have done anything wrong in these situations”. because we’ve seen him fugue out, and whatever they show us after the fact, Norman’s not always “with us”.  And when Norman screams at Emma, as he runs away from her, “you’re wrong, it’s HER (who’s wrong)”; I thought it was strongly possible that when he said HER, he secretly meant “the existence of Head-Norma, speaking to and through me, is wrong”, rather than “actual Norma, and how she handles things with me”.  I admit I’m not 100% up on what we call[ed] “psychotic breaks”, but what Norman is describing to Emma… I grew up with a controlling suspicious mother, every time “why is this [bedroom] door locked [*rattle, rattle*]?”, etc., she’d have chosen my clothes in college if I had let her (and I mean, “what I put on in the morning”, not “go shopping with me”), and I’ve never had a psychotic break.  “Reticent”, I can see in both me and Norman.  “OCD”, I can see in me.  Psychosis?  Split personality?  Though I know to some extent Hitchcock-era information has trammeled a modern-informed interpretation for us, I’m not getting that connection Norman is trying – with all his might - to blame on Norma.

 

“I stayed in this world for you, Mother!”  What does he mean by “this world”… “White Pine Bay”, or “what we think of mentally, as ‘the real world’ ”?  Even if we didn’t have that writerly “tell”, the person whose word we have for the fact that he did not black out, is… Norman.  Even Norman admits it.  “I can’t remember if I did.  It’s all starting to blur in my head.”  Well, Norman, 2 minutes earlier, you had just stoutly asseverated to your mother, that you had “gone over and over it and remembered everything”. Which is it?  “Annika is alive and thus, was clearly not killed by my hand”, doesn’t say anything good or bad about your powers of recall.  it just says “Annika isn’t dead.” 

 

And maybe more interesting, when it’s Head-Norma present, I don’t see her talking like Tangible-Norma ever talks to Norman in the first place.  If anything, it’s closer to the way Norma talks to Dylan when she’s neither enraged nor delighted with him.  If I am convinced of anything in connection with this show involving "perspective" at this point; it’s that I am almost 100% that Norma didn’t change clothes to stand in the bathroom, psychoanalyze Norman and take off his belt, then leave the room, change, and go rescue drowning-Norman in a different outfit.

 

Wow, long of me, but one more thing, loved Romero's "WOMEN" eye-rolls at Norman during Norma's interruptions, as a method of bonding with him.  Smart sheriff.

Edited March 25, 2015 by queenanne

[Bec]

But we still have Dylan out in some spin-off series that could be called The Endless Weed Subplot Blues show.

I hereby dub it Breaking Bore. I like Dylan, though. He's a big part of the reason I keep watching this show. I just want him to be more integrated with the main plot and actually interact with the main characters.

 

“I stayed in this world for you, Mother!”  What does he mean by “this world”?

Last season Norman was going to commit suicide after he had those flashbacks of killing Miss Watson, because he was afraid he would kill again. Norma stopped him by telling him she would die (just die!) if he died. And then she kissed him directly on the lips.

[Bec]

argh... double post

Edited March 26, 2015 by Bec

[rue721]

Am I the only one who thought the psychologist was really bizarre?! Granted, by THIS show's standards, he was probably comparatively 'normal' ;) His petty nonsense in the classroom re. the chair was odd, and what kind of legitimate therapist trolls for new patients by rushing up to them them in parking lots, announcing that he can just tell by their faces that they had unhappy childhoods and pushily trying to get them to give him a call?

 

Yes, COMPLETELY WEIRD and creepy. If some man comes up to me in a parking lot and tells me he knows I've been victimized because he can see it in my face, and then asks me to call him and tell him ~everything~ about myself, I am running for the fucking hills. You know who can pick out victims on sight like that? Predators, people who want to *victimize* them again.

 

Related to that:  the psych professor's power play with the seating was fucked up and I was happy that Norma refused to fold to him.

 

So, I was really happy when Norma just did the smile-and-nod and then threw away his card. But then she picked it up again! What the hell is she thinking?

 

He seemed more to be doing a cold read on Norma than analyzing her.

 

Yes, exactly. What does he want with her? He seemed like he was sniffing out the potential for *something* from her, but what the hell could it even be? I shudder to find out, considering what the other people in this town are up to.

 

Emma interacting with Dylan was definitely the highlight of this hour. I wonder if Dylan is ever going to find out that Emma knows Caleb is his uncle-dad (and that Norman was the one who told her). That scene between them was super awkward (but in a good way. It was like "Oh, you know Gunner?" Emma's face: yes, in the biblical sense. OMG that's the uncle-dad I heard so much about! Dylan's face: oh crap, this could get back to Norma and Norman - also, must act like Caleb is just my uncle and there is nothing weird about him being here, nothing at all). Still, not quite enough awkward to top the super-duper awkward that was Norma and Romero.

 

I was getting excited at Dylan getting fed up with Caleb's BS, and then Caleb diffused the situation again with the old "take pity on me" ploy. Argh! When will this end? When will Dylan interact with Norma and Norman again? I just can't help but imagine how much more fun Norma and Norman's fight would have been if Dylan was there to make WTF faces at their antics. Though maybe that would have lessened the intensity of those scenes too much.

 

 

Emma and Dylan were really vibing! And I thought that there was a little flash of jealousy about Emma knowing Gunner. How is THIS the one show that brings out the shipper in me?!

 

I like Gunner, and he was a pretty adorable boyfriend, but I actually think Emma and Dylan would be a better match anyway. Emma's a little too sharp and mature for Gunner, imo, at least while he's still getting stoned all the time. I like Emma's joie de vivre paired with Dylan's pragmatism, and I like that they're both very strong people (and that they're both good at getting a read on Norma! Despite not being the apple of Norma's eye the way that Norman is, lol). I doubt their relationship will turn romantic, seeing as Emma and Norman are dating, and Dylan already refused to get with Bradley because of Norman crushing on her, but I like them as friends regardless.

 

I wasn't sure if Dylan realized that Emma knew that Caleb wasn't just his uncle? He looked like he was trying to get a read on her while he was introducing Caleb, but he was sort of freaking out in general, so it was hard to tell. Emma certainly seemed to be trying to tip her hand at first that she knew that it was a big deal that Caleb was there, but apparently figured that Dylan didn't know that she knew that Caleb isn't *just* uncle (since then she tried to explain her shock by saying she knew that Caleb and Norma didn't get alone), and decided to keep her mouth shut about it.

 

Guess I'm just a gigantic softy, because seeing how Dylan reacted to Caleb buying the ceder kind of broke my heart, the same way that his reaction to Caleb introducing him as his son and standing up to Chick for him in the previous episode kind of broke my heart. Dylan wants it *so bad.* You can see his head telling him that Caleb is manipulating him, while his heart softens to Caleb despite himself. I feel for him.

 

What's liable to blow up in his face about Emma running into Caleb, imo, is that now Emma knows that Dylan's *uncle* is on his farm, while Chick/the neighbors know that Dylan's *father* is on his farm.

 

Though I know to some extent Hitchcock-era information has trammeled a modern-informed interpretation for us, I’m not getting that connection Norman is trying – with all his might - to blame on Norma.

 

Yes, I agree. I think that Norman is pretty obviously crying for help (because he *knows* something is wrong with him) and is upset that Norma isn't able to somehow magically make things better.

 

I think he's frustrated, because he knows she loves him, and she's always has been there for him before, so he's hoping that she can take care of this for him now. I think he's *always* hoping that she can kiss his booboos and make them better, and that's also why he imagined that she "took care" of the threat of Miss Watson for him, too. But Norma's just a regular, flawed human being -- even if she still looms larger than her teenaged son's mind -- and there's only so much she's going to be able to understand or do.

 

I also agree that head!Norma is not much at all like real!Norma in terms of how she looks or acts or treats Norman.

 

I don't even think that Norman's version of head!Norma is similar to how real!Norma treats (or used to treat) Dylan, though. I actually think that the way that Norma acts around Dylan is usually like she's a teenager or even a kid, and like she assumes he's supposed to take care of her or is responsible for her somehow (rather than the other way around). Like when she sneered at him that she hated him, when he first came into town. Or when she was goofing off at the gun range. And she often seems so innocent and vulnerable around him -- whenever some creepy guy comes around to the motel, it's clearly Dylan's job to deal with him, Norma shouldn't do it and Dylan doesn't generally let her do it. I mean, she acts maternal to him at times, too -- like when he was passed out and she tucked him in at that motel room, or when she was proud of him for his office at the drug HQ but warned him not to let the marijuana oils get onto his skin or whatever she was babbling about. But in general, I think that she acts more like Dylan's her ex or her "baby daddy" or even her big brother/uncle/father, than she acts like he's her son.

 

(I think that's also why Caleb is able to push Dylan's buttons by taking care of him, and ostensibly "protecting" him (from Chick, from the shitty wood he would have used on the house) -- in other words, by acting like a parent to him. Norma doesn't really treat him like that, even when things are good between them. When things are good between them, imo she treats him basically the same as she treats Romero, and when things are bad between them, she acts like he's some ex she can't shake).

 

Whereas head!Norma is cold and creepy and strange, but she's also pretty maternal toward Norman and is always trying to take care of him or look out for him and take responsibility for him -- in her cold, creepy, strange way :P

[giovannif7]

So, I was really happy when Norma just did the smile-and-nod and then threw away his card. But then she picked it up again! What the hell is she thinking?

 

I figured that Norma's initial reaction to him gave way to thoughts of Norman. She knows Norman needs help, and he isn't talking to her - why not see if this guy can get into Norman's head. I'm guessing that this won't end well for any of them, especially the psych professor.

[opus]

I came here to see if anyone thought FH had his British accent break out during some of his tirades, but I guess not.

[queenanne]

I also agree that head!Norma is not much at all like real!Norma in terms of how she looks or acts or treats Norman.

 

I don't even think that Norman's version of head!Norma is similar to how real!Norma treats (or used to treat) Dylan, though. I actually think that the way that Norma acts around Dylan is usually like she's a teenager or even a kid, and like she assumes he's supposed to take care of her or is responsible for her somehow (rather than the other way around). Like when she sneered at him that she hated him, when he first came into town. Or when she was goofing off at the gun range. And she often seems so innocent and vulnerable around him -- whenever some creepy guy comes around to the motel, it's clearly Dylan's job to deal with him, Norma shouldn't do it and Dylan doesn't generally let her do it. I mean, she acts maternal to him at times, too -- like when he was passed out and she tucked him in at that motel room, or when she was proud of him for his office at the drug HQ but warned him not to let the marijuana oils get onto his skin or whatever she was babbling about. But in general, I think that she acts more like Dylan's her ex or her "baby daddy" or even her big brother/uncle/father, than she acts like he's her son.

 

(I think that's also why Caleb is able to push Dylan's buttons by taking care of him, and ostensibly "protecting" him (from Chick, from the shitty wood he would have used on the house) -- in other words, by acting like a parent to him. Norma doesn't really treat him like that, even when things are good between them. When things are good between them, imo she treats him basically the same as she treats Romero, and when things are bad between them, she acts like he's some ex she can't shake).

 

Whereas head!Norma is cold and creepy and strange, but she's also pretty maternal toward Norman and is always trying to take care of him or look out for him and take responsibility for him -- in her cold, creepy, strange way :P

 

Oh gosh, I can't believe I'd forgotten about how eerily similar Max T. and Mike Vogel are and were shot to look from time to time – I think when I was going back to Head!Norma being “like that” towards Dylan, I was thinking primarily of those early moments where Dylan had first come to town, and he and Norma were throwing positively TV-daring amounts of animosity at each other – seriously, sometimes they were so mean to each other I’d reach the end of scenes and find I was holding my breath, which is pretty heady an acting choice for non-HBO on their parts.

 

But I do think you’re right and that’s also present in these scenarios – Norma can act almost as inappropriately towards Dylan as she does towards Norman, and then we couple it with Deputy Shelby, so it’s really inappropriate when you concentrate on it; and in fact, it’s even possible the breathless daring amounts of animosity were designed to distract us from the fact that Deputy Shelby’s very existence seems to be indicating that both he and, by extension Dylan, are in fact “Norma’s type”.  Romero distracts and kind of dilutes this, because clearly to some extent Norma doesn’t have “a type”, and she having had a relationship with Shelby was probably distracting us from any “Normero” overtones running concurrently; but if it's not meant to be so intentional, that's a real and active casting choice also.  Mike Vogel looks even more like a potential bio-dad for Dylan than his actual bio-dad!

 

In short, I now think that's more "Caleb grooming Norma" effects.  Unfortunate essential portions of Norma clearly associate "sex" with "Caleb", since their physical relationship was going on during important mental formative years for her, it'd have to; and brings us to the heady cocktail of psychological effects we have going in present day Norma.  (And man, now I'm even more squicked out by Caleb.)

Edited March 27, 2015 by queenanne

[designing1]

I came here to see if anyone thought FH had his British accent break out during some of his tirades, but I guess not.

 

I do believe I heard it a bit. Awesome as Freddie is in the role, I find his American accent to be off in general. Something about his vowel sounds, like they're very "round", if that makes any sense. It doesn't sound like he and Mother come from the same region. His acting is otherwise spot-on.

[rue721]

But I do think you’re right and that’s also present in these scenarios – Norma can act almost as inappropriately towards Dylan as she does towards Norman, and then we couple it with Deputy Shelby, so it’s really inappropriate when you concentrate on it; and in fact, it’s even possible the breathless daring amounts of animosity were designed to distract us from the fact that Deputy Shelby’s very existence seems to be indicating that both he and, by extension Dylan, are in fact “Norma’s type”.  Romero distracts and kind of dilutes this, because clearly to some extent Norma doesn’t have “a type”, and she having had a relationship with Shelby was probably distracting us from any “Normero” overtones running concurrently; but if it's not meant to be so intentional, that's a real and active casting choice also.  Mike Vogel looks even more like a potential bio-dad for Dylan than his actual bio-dad!

 

Norma twigged right away that she could get Shelby to protect her (from Romero and getting prosecuted for Keith's death) by sleeping with him. She dressed up and really tried to hook him, and specifically went back to him and made sure to be in his good graces in order for him to bury the belt that Norman had kept and the police had found.

 

But imo she never seemed attracted to Shelby at all -- despite him being pretty gorgeous (and looking fairly young for her, too!). The one time they were post-coital and she got sappy, it was to tell him she thought he was beautiful like an old woman. To me, she seemed to be banging him out of duty and like she didn't really think she could afford not to. Which imo is more or less how I figure she's been with virtually any man she's been with. I was actually pretty surprised when she got into that fight with Norman and tried to screw the sad out of her system with George! :P

 

I don't know that Norma has ever really been attracted to anyone (sexually) during the course of the show so far. She's been "vibing" with Romero, and I think he's developed feelings for her. But while I think she likes and trusts him as a person, she still put her feelings in terms of safety and care (she "felt safe" while he was at the motel, she'll make him dinner and patch up his cuts/bruises). I actually wonder if having sex with him would ruin things for her, in that it would make the relationship feel less loving to her and more transactional. But who knows.

 

Anyway, I do think that Norma's relationship with Dylan is inappropriate. Imo, she uses him, and he knows it. That's why he freaked out about her using him to get out of her parents' house in the first place. And why he keeps trying to make himself useful to her, and kept trying to make himself useful to his bosses in general. (And now Caleb is doing the same for him, and he's responding to it despite himself, imo).

 

But to be honest, I'm not unbiased. It's so long ago now, but I still haven't quite forgiven her for telling Dylan she hates him. That's the kind of thing that you never forget your mother saying to you, ime. And I just don't trust that she actually loves him, that she isn't just looking out for herself (and maybe for Norman). (Tbh I don't know that she even knows what love is, or how to love somebody. Though she does a pretty good job loving Norman imo). Anyway, at heart, I think that she *doesn't* love Dylan, and she *is* basically just going to look out for herself (and maybe for Norman). But who knows. When she decided to flee town and said that she'd gotten Dylan a ticket, I actually didn't believe her. I thought she was planning to say goodbye to him, and realized that she had to stay on Dylan's good side if she wanted to make a clean exit, so she tried to save the situation by adding that she'd gotten him a ticket, too. But Dylan believed her completely, he was so happy. And then she started saying all that really lovely stuff, like how he was beautiful and even though her life had been horrible, having him made it worth going through all that, etc etc etc. So again, who knows. I actually find Norma and Dylan's relationship more complicated than her relationship with Norman, but of course, that's the kind of thing where YMMV!

[methodwriter85]

 

But in general, I think that she acts more like Dylan's her ex or her "baby daddy" or even her big brother/uncle/father, than she acts like he's her son.

 

Well, she banged a guy who looked just like her son, and her actual baby daddy/brother looks and sounds a hell of a lot like Dylan, so that makes a lot of sense. She was also 17 when she had him, and teen parents tend to relate to their kids more as pals than as their parents.

[sigmaforce86]

Last week was Vera's Emmy reel, this week is Freddie's Emmy reel.

 

That was my first thought too - well not Emmy reel but wondering what it'll take to get both of them Emmy's.  Shows like this and the Walking Dead just don't seem to get a lot of love from the major awards which is a shame because I can't imagine where Freddy has to go mentally in the character to do scenes like the bed slamming.

 

“I stayed in this world for you, Mother!”  What does he mean by “this world”… “White Pine Bay”, or “what we think of mentally, as ‘the real world’ ”?  

 

I think he means the "whole world" - right before the lie detector test at the end of last season he went into the woods with a gun and would have offed himself if Norma hadn't chased him down and talked him out of it.  Pretty sure he was hinting at that and that his decision to not kill her or himself or both was to stay around "for Mother".

 

Please Dylan just kick Caleb to the curb already.  I'd suspect that Romero will try to build up the weed business again using Dylan's land behind his back with Caleb farming it; except that I can't see Romero trusting Caleb to be any sort of leader.  Caleb may try to sweet talk him but I believe Romero has the best BS meter of anyone on the planet.  But I wouldn't be surprised if Dylan still gets sucked into another pot war; either with the neighbor we met or others because Caleb takes advantage of the 99 legal medicinal plants idea and runs with it.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

That was my first thought too - well not Emmy reel but wondering what it'll take to get both of them Emmy's.  Shows like this and the Walking Dead just don't seem to get a lot of love from the major awards which is a shame because I can't imagine where Freddy has to go mentally in the character to do scenes like the bed slamming.

I think in lesser hands, Norman's outbursts would look ridiculous.

[Guest]

The whole thing with Dylan and the pot farm felt out of left field for me, so I must be forgetting some lead-in from last season.  I thought he only worked in pot because he had to.  Now it seems like he's the older brother on Weeds.

[green]

I do believe I heard it a bit. Awesome as Freddie is in the role, I find his American accent to be off in general. Something about his vowel sounds, like they're very "round", if that makes any sense. It doesn't sound like he and Mother come from the same region. His acting is otherwise spot-on.

 

But isn't that more like how Anthony Perkins sounded?  Not English, just Perkins' somewhat distant American accent?  Can't really recall but semi think I do.  May be way off.

Edited March 28, 2015 by green

[peacheslatour]

But isn't that more like how Anthony Perkins sounded?  Not English, just Perkins' somewhat distant American accent?  Can't really recall but semi think I do.  May be way off.

I would describe it as "stilted".

[Peanut6711]

I feel like this season is pacing a little slow. They mystery with Annika and the Eyes Wide Shut Club is just finally taking off and it's episode 3, but I'm curious where it's going.  

 

Since his name appears in the credits before Romero's, I guess he's here to stay.

If Caleb is now listed as a regular then I suspect even more that there's more to his story with Norma that will come out. I get the feeling Dylan hiding him out on the pot farm is only a plot device meant to delay a blow-out with him and Norma later in the season when they meet again. 

 

I came here to see if anyone thought FH had his British accent break out during some of his tirades, but I guess not.

Yes he definitely slipped a number of times during his tirade. First I noticed it during the show. 

 

He [Dylan]  looked like he was trying to get a read on her while he was introducing Caleb, but he was sort of freaking out in general, so it was hard to tell.

My hubs thought MT (Dylan) had a cold in that scene. I thought maybe he was a little stoned up there on the farm. LOL  But it was a good scene between him and Emma none the less.  But I'm also wondering where did Emma and Gunner leave off last season?  Knowing Norman is starting to crack I almost longed for Emma to get back with Gunnar. 

[editorgrrl]

I came here to see if anyone thought FH had his British accent break out during some of his tirades, but I guess not.

He sounded very Canadian this episode.