S05.E15: Try

[Pete Martell]

I think the subtext was different. "Would you do this for anyone?" she asked, and his answer was "no", the implication being only people he cares about. Members of the family. Was he just doing this in his role as constable or did he offer long-term protection? The distinction is important I think because Rick has been there for such a short amount of time, has been shown to be apprehensive about fully integrating and has ensured the survival of a large group out in the open.

 

Besides, had you asked him a while ago, still outside, if he'd help just any random woman with an abusive husband, the answer would have been no, and rightfully so. The group has painfully learned that you can't help and accomodate everyone.

 

Perhaps I'm reading a bit too much subtext, the storyline has been too rushed. But I think suggesting that he'd only help a woman if he wanted to bone her is way off-base.

 

But he knows as little about Jessie as he does any other woman in Alexandria. So if he tells her he would help her and no one else, then I have to believe that part of it is about attraction and desire, especially with the way he was staring at her in those uncomfortable "Forget" scenes. 

 

The way he has obsessed over her for three full episodes, with no other thought in his head, I can't help seeing that scene as some awful attempt on the show's part of selling this as a romance or a strong bond. And I think it turns domestic violence into a dating profile. I think using that for this storyline just feels very wrong, because, whatever the show's intentions, I did come away from the scene assuming that Rick only cared because he had feelings for her, and her being abused was a secondary concern at best. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[lulee]

It's about a generic dream woman Rick has to have, with a "connection" that must be there in order to justify Rick's obsession.

Uh oh, have the writers been watching The Bachelor?

[TigerLynx]

I agree with everyone that Rick would not turn a blind eye to any woman being abused by a man, but I've mostly ignored that part of the SL because it is so obvious the writers wanted to get the viewers to - see Rick is finally ready to move on and be in a relationship - and Rick to - Crazy Town - for the inevitable Rick vs. Deanna show down, and they were dropping anvils all over the place in the process.

 

I'm actually more interested in how Glenn, Maggie, Michonne, and Sasha are handling being in Alexandria.

[HalcyonDays]

Edited - defined "thot" and deleted after reading note from mod. Have to agree, even fictional Jessie didn't deserve to be called that

 

Thanks boofish and I-Kare and everyone. Sad reality is that I thought the term was short form for, or meant something like That Hottie or something. I don't know. I'm old. Leave me alone. Gotta learn the slang.

 

Now that I have been thus educated, yeah, let's not do the typical slam women slut-shaming BS that society always does. Because we are better than that! Thanks guys - you are great!

 

The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Camp Dinner Bell.

 

You know, if we could come up with a theme for a new thread, I would so name it this!

[chlban]

The problem with this story for me is that it rarely seems to be about a desperate, terrified woman suffering from abuse. It's about a generic dream woman Rick has to have, with a "connection" that must be there in order to justify Rick's obsession.

 

The idea that a woman is so terrified of being uprooted from her abusive home (which many abused wives go through, I realize) until she knows that he doesn't care about helping any abuse victim but her turns domestic violence into a popularity contest. And the scenario of two men literally fighting over her as she cried in the corner did the same. 

 

The show is treating domestic violence as a prom date. I think it's deplorable. And while I don't hate Jessie, I think having her only go with Rick if he said he didn't care about helping anyone else made her look awful.

Yes, you have summed up perfectly what was so offensive to me about last nights conversation between Rick and Jessie. "Would you do this for anyone?" annoyed the crap out of me.  Chick wasn't asking about his having washed her car or brought her breakfast in bed. They are discussing "saving" her from domestic abuse. What kind of self absorbed, narcissistic woman asks such a ridiculous question? Because what, if he says he would do it for anyone you don't want his help? You would only want his help if its for your own special self?  I just pinpointed when  I went from "meh" to  clear dislike of Jessie. That was the moment. 

 

I realize the appeal of this show certainly can't be it's deep meaningful writing, but there is a line that even all action shows cross where the absurdity just takes hold. The entire conversation about a very serious topic was reduced to lines that should have surrounded a prom date, not a life or death ordeal for many women.

[Morrigan2575]

I actually liked the concept  of Deanna and her Civilization vs human instinct and what kind of darkness post ZA-humanity brings to the new civilization.  It's a shame because I don't think the show will spend the time diving into this storyline.  Deanna's willingness to turn a blind eye to Pete beating on Jessie is interesting, is it OK to sacrifice Jessie for the greater good of keeping a Dr/Surgen in the ASZ that can save lives and help build a new civilization?  What of the others?  Even Rick apparently wouldn't have bothered to save another person in the ASZ going through what Jessie is dealing with if he wasn't interested in her himself.  

 

Aside: I'm a total non-shipper on this show but man did Rick's comment feel wrong and heavy handed to get to an pre-determined end result without spending the time.

[dannymoon]

I think the subtext was different. "Would you do this for anyone?" she asked, and his answer was "no", the implication being only people he cares about. Members of the family. Was he just doing this in his role as constable or did he offer long-term protection? The distinction is important I think because Rick has been there for such a short amount of time, has been shown to be apprehensive about fully integrating and has ensured the survival of a large group out in the open.

 

Besides, had you asked him a while ago, still outside, if he'd help just any random woman with an abusive husband, the answer would have been no, and rightfully so. The group has painfully learned that you can't help and accomodate everyone.

 

Perhaps I'm reading a bit too much subtext, the storyline has been too rushed. But I think suggesting that he'd only help a woman if he wanted to bone her is way off-base.

That's interesting and I hadn't thought of it that way. I was thinking of it in terms of being a constable, a sheriff/deputy/cop (whatever he was before), and fully expected him to say "Yes, of course, and I have before" linking back to his pre-ZA life when he must have come across cases like domestic abuse. When he said no, I was instantly confused because I didn't know if it was to further show us that Rick's losing it again, or just wants Jesse. I hate the idea that it could solely be the latter.

[Caelicola]

But he knows as little about Jessie as he does any other woman in Alexandria. So if he tells her he would help her and no one else, then I have to believe that part of it is about attraction and desire, especially with the way he was staring at her in those uncomfortable "Forget" scenes. 

 

The way he has obsessed over her for three full episodes, with no other thought in his head, I can't help seeing that scene as some awful attempt on the show's part of selling this as a romance or a strong bond. And I think it turns domestic violence into a dating profile. I think using that for this storyline just feels very wrong, because, whatever the show's intentions, I did come away from the scene assuming that Rick only cared because he had feelings for her, and her being abused was a secondary concern at best. 

You know, I did find that line cringeworthy, and side-eyeworthy (...is that a word?) but I've come to the conclusion -probably way off base- that he saw in her the need to have someone, anyone, care for her, individually, just her, not as the surgeon's wife, or as a member of the community, just Jessie, the woman. If someone cares about her, she's not alone, and she can do this, be alone. Up until Rick, the people who were supposed to take care of her considered her well being less important than having her abusive husband on call as doctor whiskeybreath.

I'm deciding to -very probably- fool myself into thinking that Rick recognized that and understood that it would be the final push she'd need.

[LexiconDevilOne]

I, sincerly, hope the group which carved the 'W' into the walkers foreheads, is comprised of those banished from the groups they attack.

 

 

Not feeling the Rick/Jesse 'relationship' at all. Rick knows what having an albatross woman, with the personality of Lori, is like hanging about his neck. Maybe it's the writing, but this storyline seems so contrived (and yes, I'm aware it comes directly from the comics.)

[StatMom]

 

 

It's about a generic dream woman Rick has to have, with a "connection" that must be there in order to justify Rick's obsession.

Uh oh, have the writers been watching The Bachelor?

Maybe Jessie is not there for the Right Reasons . We'll have to see if she talks about "Rick's and I's relationship."

 

If this is Rick's attempt at wooing her, showing his macho, beatin' up side doesn't seem the way to go. Just ask Abraham's wife.

[CrashTextDummie]

But he knows as little about Jessie as he does any other woman in Alexandria. So if he tells her he would help her and no one else, then I have to believe that part of it is about attraction and desire, especially with the way he was staring at her in those uncomfortable "Forget" scenes. 

Obviously there's something drawing him to her, but while the show is pretty clearly telegraphing romance, I don't think the character is there yet himself. That's how I read the earlier scene where he asked Carol why she cared so much. I think what he's actually wondering is why he cares himself. This is, after all, a guy who has had no romantic thought since the violent death of his wife, for all we know. You can call the storyline hamfisted and I wouldn't disagree, but it's pretty clear to me that this is the writers exploring the remaining humanity of a downright feral character, and not a marginalization of domestic abuse.

[JackONeill]

Working with multiple characters is always tough.

Remember Bonanza? Only 4 main characters (three when Adam left)(back to 4 when Candy came along). But most shows only featured one or two of the main characters.  It all depends on what you want. To have a better plot/script/story, you need fewer leads eating into (see what I did there?) the script. If you have a lot of main characters, they may each get a few lines but then it's difficult to have a coherent story line.  You always need a POV (point-of-view) character, someone who sees and responds to the immediate action.

Just my two-cents.

Truth be known, I like it when our team's together, but I realize there'll be noticeable absences (like Maggie).

Uh oh, have the writers been watching The Bachelor?

 

Is the red balloon this show's red rose??  Hmmmmmmm.

[catrox14]

I believe that too. Or maybe Ramsay Bolton's expecting a new delivery.

Who is Ramsay Bolton? I do not get this reference.

[Boofish]

Since they are putting up with all this crap from Pete I could burn the whole place down and murder anyone I wanted (with the exception of Pete of course) when they found out I know how to make my own chocolate!

[Anela]

Either do I. So I looked it up.

 

Okay, let's try not to fling this one around, please with regard to Jessie or any of the other women. I know it was mentioned as a generic in passing "huh? why are people calling her that???", but otherwise, please don't . You guys have been good (as always) but yeah...if you feel the need...just don't. It's demeaning to women. Much appreciated.

I googled, but my browser keeps shutting down on me. 

[Pete Martell]

Who is Ramsay Bolton? I do not get this reference.

 

Ramsay Bolton -

a torturer/murderer/rapist on Game of Thrones.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[CletusMusashi]

It's a Game of Thrones joke. Saying any more than that would have made it a Game of Thrones spoiler.

 

ETA: Thanks for adding the tags!

Edited March 24, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Iguessnot]

When Porchdick and Rictator were cave manning each other and the POV switched to Sasha shooting the wall walkers, it is very obvious that the wall has a giant gap. Watch the scene and look in the lower left area of the picture, you'll see what I mean. The effects people missed putting cgi wall there.

 

 

Yeah, I saw that too. Blooper reel.

[catrox14]

This whole RIck/Jessie thing is just stupid. I don't believe for 2 minutes that Rick would not be concerned about other women being abused.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Thanks boofish and I-Kare and everyone. Sad reality is that I thought the term was short form for, or meant something like That Hottie or something. I don't know. I'm old. Leave me alone. Gotta learn the slang.

 

Now that I have been thus educated, yeah, let's not do the typical slam women slut-shaming BS that society always does. Because we are better than that! Thanks guys - you are great!

 

 

 

         I'm the one who dropped the T-word.  Sorry to whomever it offended.

         Done out of annoyance over this rachet s/l. 

         Will go back and edit it out, it won't happen again.  

 

         I see it was already done, fair enough.

Edited March 23, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Kbilly]

A couple people mentioned Carol's smile during the Rick-Pete kerfluffle. Wild speculation: What if this was all some elaborate Carol plan to get rid of Rick, get him banished like he banished her? Noticing his attraction to the damsel in distress and his unraveling mind and planting the seed that the husband must be killed? 

 

Thanks for whoever said Andrew Lincoln wanted it to be as dirty and ugly as possible because it certainly was. I had to look away it was so horrible. Sad that Carl had to try to break it up and he pushed him away.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Kbilly

[SoWindsor]

I like the nine inch nails song but don't get why they played it.

[Pete Martell]

Obviously there's something drawing him to her, but while the show is pretty clearly telegraphing romance, I don't think the character is there yet himself. That's how I read the earlier scene where he asked Carol why she cared so much. I think what he's actually wondering is why he cares himself. This is, after all, a guy who has had no romantic thought since the violent death of his wife, for all we know. You can call the storyline hamfisted and I wouldn't disagree, but it's pretty clear to me that this is the writers exploring the remaining humanity of a downright feral character, and not a marginalization of domestic abuse.

 

I see what you're saying, but I feel like this exploration does, in the process, trivialize domestic abuse. I think creating a scenario that implies women who are being beaten are only helped if they are "worthy" and are only going to get help if the man promises he really cares about her and no one else is dangerous writing. Jessie has never had a voice in this story (for me), and when she finally does, that is her first concern. Everything with them in this episode came across to me as a high school love triangle with added domestic violence to make sure we would sympathize with Rick and not just see him as taking another man's girl. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[HalcyonDays]

         I'm the one who dropped the T-word.  Sorry to whomever it offended.

         Done out of annoyance over this rachet s/l. 

         Will go back and edit it out, it won't happen again.  

 

         I see it was already done, fair enough.

 

Beat you to it! But thank you for wanting to make the effort to fix it up. I removed the edit reason, for the record, because it looks nicer! Really appreciated!

[Boofish]

I googled, but my browser keeps shutting down on me. 

Sent you the definition via PM

Edited March 23, 2015 by Boofish

[walnutqueen]

OMG yes, that music! So grating, loud, ugly (no offense NIN fans but there is a time and a place for everything and sitting in the dark, mouring your son is not the time for that music UNLESS you are a family of goth/punk/death metal people). When I die, I hope this get's played at my funeral/wake but it really does fit this storyline too if you listen to it...

 

That made my heart ache something fierce; so, so beautiful, and now I don't ever want you to diebartdie.

[Pete Martell]

A couple people mentioned Carol's smile during the Rick-Pete kerfluffle. What if this was all some elaborate Carol plan to get rid of Rick, get him banished like he banished her? Noticing his attraction to the damsel in distress and his unraveling mind and planting the seed that the husband must be killed? 

 

I don't think Carol wants revenge on Rick. I think she's scared for Sam (and I guess Jessie), but I think much of her behavior is also about righting a wrong she never got to right in her own life. She never got to leave Ed. He was killed by walkers. He would have continued beating her otherwise. She never got to save Sophia. This is her second chance.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Beat you to it! But thank you for wanting to make the effort to fix it up. I removed the edit reason, for the record, because it looks nicer. Really appreciated!

     

        No problem. 

[lulee]

Judging by the preview, I'm glad to see that Rick's face will look like it has post-Pete-punch effects. I'm nitpicking again though that Nicholas showed little if any effect of the repeated punches from Glenn, just like Eugene had barely a mullet hair out of place after being pummeled by Abraham and falling flat on his face on the pavement.

[mandolin]

Not feeling the Rick/Jesse 'relationship' at all. Rick knows what having an albatross woman, with the personality of Lori, is like hanging about his neck. Maybe it's the writing, but this storyline seems so contrived (and yes, I'm aware it comes directly from the comics.)

Not exactly. I won't talk comics in this thread, but there is a definite departure.

[Pete Martell]

I like the nine inch nails song but don't get why they played it.

 

I think it was to show suburban nightmares - various people losing control, or barely hanging on. I guess it was also a way to show Deanna trying to connect with her son through his favorite music.

 

I did feel like it went on a little too long but overall it worked for me, especially the cut from the track on the CD player to the microwave oven clock. And the shots of Carol in the kitchen - it looked so large, and she looked so manic as she tried to exist in a place like that which was likely so alien to her even before the ZA.

[AndySmith]

You know, if we could come up with a theme for a new thread, I would so name it this!

 

Whose lives were messed up/turned upside the most once they came into contact with Rick & Co.?

 

I, sincerly, hope the group which carved the 'W' into the walkers foreheads, is comprised of those banished from the groups they attack.

 

Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but...huh? What groups they attack, and banished? You mean leftover Woodsbury/Terminus/hospital people...?

[Ohwell]

Because while the ASZhats suck balls, ASZ itself is kinda paradise on earth, when compared to the horseshit barn, or even the prison.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he went about it in the right way; having a screaming fit while drenched in blood and waving your gun about is probably one of the two worst ways to get your point across (the other being interpretive dance); but the ASZhats killed five people -that we know of- not because of honest mistakes, or miscalculation, but through sheer cowardice; they apparently never thought to check their walls for people climbing in, and those walls have outer supports that any minimally agile bad guy can climb with no extreme effort; they have never thought to put an outlook in the freaking outlook tower they're graced with; hopefully they've never needed an appendectomy, because their surgeon doubles as the town drunk, and I'd truly expect him to ask me which one of my two appendixes I wanted him to remove.

I understand all this about the ASZhats--that they're inept, cowardly, what have you, but it's their system.  If Rick and Co. don't like it, then they can leave.  Go somewhere else and create their own "paradise" on earth, find another town to settle in (there are plenty of places in Northern Virginia--try Arlngton) just like the ASZhats did.  The new place would be even better because it would be much safer.  

 

Rick looked, acted and sounded like a crazy fool, shouting at the ASZhats about how stupid they were, yada yada yada, after having gotten food, clothes, shave, haircut--all because of the ASZhats.   AND he got a pretty good whipping from a drunk doctor.

[Boofish]

If everyone I had ever met or been related to in my entire life was dead, presumed dead or I was living with the fact I would never know their fate I would be Sasha levels of crazy with a side of Shane and a Rick chaser. I actually think these people are holding up pretty well considering the circumstances

[Bad Example]

Since they are putting up with all this crap from Pete I could burn the whole place down and murder anyone I wanted (with the exception of Pete of course) when they found out I know how to make my own chocolate!

 

You are SO IN.  With me and Carol,, at least.

[Caelicola]

I understand all this about the ASZhats--that they're inept, cowardly, what have you, but it's their system.  If Rick and Co. don't like it, then they can leave.  Go somewhere else and create their own "paradise" on earth, find another town to settle in (there are plenty of places in Northern Virginia--try Arlngton) just like the ASZhats did.  The new place would be even better because it would be much safer.  

That's completely fair and rational. Problem is, RIck is nowhere near fair and rational. They're there, it's lovely, the people are pretty dumb and defenseless, it looks ripe for the picking. If he was a more balanced person at this point he'd either try to make it work or find another safe haven. He's not. He wants it, because it's there, and not somewhere far away and difficult to find. Michonne understands what you're saying, and agrees with you. I think Rick doesn't even contemplate the possibility of there being a system at all; it's either HIS system or it's broken. As far as he's concerned, they deserve to be overtaken, because they're guilty of the fact that they're not HIS.

(Also, naive and dumb and cowards, but that's what I think about them, and what I think hasn't really much to do with why Rick and his people won't go look for another place. Intellectually, you're absolutely right. From Rick's point of view, the idea of leaving the cushiest spot they ever found to look for some place that might be safe, but almost certainly will be less cushy makes no sense at all, when he can just take that very same spot).

 

ETA: Just to make it clear, I think Rick's point of view is the point of view of the fucked up. Yours is the point of view of the rational, stable and well-adjusted.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Caelicola

[ghoulina]

like the nine inch nails song but don't get why they played it.

 

It said "Run Mix" on the cd itself, so I assumed it was the music Aiden would play in the van when he went out on a run. They were trying to remember him, I guess. I didn't think it worked badly as a montage, but with his family just sitting there listening to it? It came across rather goofy to me.

[Ocean Chick]

I have a feeling that Jessie asked Rick that question because she's afraid that she can't "go it" on her own, just like Carol told Rick when they were picking those darn tomatoes.  She was afraid to be alone.  Carol even left Ed and went to a shelter, but left less than a day later, just because of that fear.  Jessie probably feels the same way, and is seeking confirmation that Rick will be there for her and the boys after Pete is gone.  I have a feeling that we'll never know if she's strong enough to be on her own, unlike Carol, who Rick confirmed would have made it okay even if she hadn't met our group.  At least, that's what he believes.

 

Carol just wants to save an abuse victim, just because she wasn't able to save herself or Sofia.  This is her "do over".

[LexiconDevilOne]

 

 

Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but...huh? What groups they attack, and banished? You mean leftover Woodsbury/Terminus/hospital people...?

No.

 

I was stating people who got banished from places like Alexandria, or Shirewilt Estates, among other encampments. Who somehow came together, taking revenge out on those who kicked them out.

 

It could be, since the ASZ is basically a prepper community.  I'm sure Deanna would get rid of those people FIRST. Especially since preppers worse nightmares begin with the phrase, "I'm from the government. I'm here to help you."

Not exactly. I won't talk comics in this thread, but there is a definite departure.

Gotcha.

 

I'll check it out, thanks.

[AndySmith]

Well, if they're going around chopping people up and carving Ws onto their foreheads, then they deserved to be kicked out.

 

What is a prepper?

[Pete Martell]

Can't believe Glenn would side with the ASZholes knowing they purposely leave people behind. I'm glad now the Overthrow Club only includes Daryl, Carol and Rick because Glenn and Michonne are way too comfortable with their sleep number beds and toothbrushes

 

Daryl hasn't even been involved for a while. I tend to believe he just said "Peace out" and is avoiding them (or avoiding Rick, anyway) because by the last time he was with them he was obviously reluctant.

 

I don't really think Glenn or Michonne care about comfort. They just don't see the point of a brutal takeover. They don't trust it. And given that Rick would put Jessie over their welfare and the welfare of even his own children, I think they're totally right.

I really don't understand Nicholas.  If he is so dang scared and he has been nearly killed at least once (though, really, what is the likelihood that it only happened once), and has failed on his runs at least twice (though, really, what is the likelihood that it only happened twice) why is he so heck-bent on going out on runs?  Do those who do  go outside get some special perks that we don't see?  Do they get banished if they ask to be reassigned? (I don't think so, we saw Tobin from the construction site run over during the fight, so he is sill there).  Is it male pride?  He isn't good at it.  He doesn't like it.  There are other things he could be doing that are less dangerous but still can sooth his "manly" pride (turns at the bell tower or wall patrol or converting a building into jail cells).  I just don't understand why someone, especially someone who has seen the consequences of failure outside the walls isn't jumping at the chance to make something up to get him reassigned inside the walls. 

 

We know where he falls in the fight or flight spectrum...why doesn't he?

 

He wants to be a bad-ass. He wants the town to see him as a bad-ass. He probably also wanted to hang out with the hot, popular guy from a well-connected family, to validate him.

 

He's a post-ZA Eddie Haskell.

[TVFan17]

Am I the only one who could not care less about Jessie?  I find her blah and dull.  She has done nothing to make me give a damn about her one way or the other.  (Not that I want her to be beaten, but you know what I mean.)   I don't see why Rick suddenly has all of these powerful feelings for her when he has known her for 2 seconds.   I think the powerful feeling is in his pants.

 

I mean, Jessie is pretty.  That's about it.  She's not particularly engaging or interesting, and I see no chemistry between Jessie and Rick (yet).  I have no problem with Rick finally getting some action, but I wish it were going to be with someone more captivating.  Hopefully he will just get in a few romps and then move on.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Sherry67

[maystone]

Obviously there's something drawing him to her, but while the show is pretty clearly telegraphing romance, I don't think the character is there yet himself. That's how I read the earlier scene where he asked Carol why she cared so much. I think what he's actually wondering is why he cares himself. This is, after all, a guy who has had no romantic thought since the violent death of his wife, for all we know. You can call the storyline hamfisted and I wouldn't disagree, but it's pretty clear to me that this is the writers exploring the remaining humanity of a downright feral character, and not a marginalization of domestic abuse.

 

Yes! I've been wanting to say that for the last 10 pages, but I needed to get caught up first. I saw a lot more in that scene between Rick and Jesse than the cave man/ frightened woman scenario. Jesse tried to get Rick to leave her alone; her "I'm married" was shorthand for "I'm married to a man who will beat the living crap out of me if you keep coming around here, so no, I'm not interested." From my perspective, she thought he was just hitting on her. Then Rick goes on to tell her about Sam and the gun, and that puts a whole new spin on things.  

 

I can't remember all of the dialogue, but I remember that the subtext I was getting was that Rick was telling her to leave Pete, and that he would back her up, that he would try to keep her and her boys safe. When Jesse asked him, "Would you do this for anyone else?" she was asking if this was a commitment. Would you go this far to protect anyone else in this position? When Rick says no, I took it to mean that this wasn't a line, this wasn't an ineffectual White Hat just trying to impress her; he was going to do what it takes to keep her and her kids safe from the man who was beating her. Jesse needs that kind of assurance before she can make that move. Statistically the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she leaves; I think Jesse knows that, and she knows that no one else in that community has had her back. At all. 

 

I completely agree that Rick asked Carol why she cared because he was doing a little reality check on his own response. And again, where a lot of people are seeing a creepy and aggressive Rick, I see a man who has been taken by surprise several times by his own reactions to Jesse. I don't think it's a perfect storyline, but I do see some nuance at work here.

[peach]

Why exactly does Rick need to "take care of" Jesse and her sons? Its not as if when Pete is gone, Jesse will struggle to pay the bills and the bank will come and repossess her home. Also if Pete is gone, Jesse's family will need less resources not more. When Ed was killed, no one stepped in and took care of Carol and Sophia.

Um, it's the end of the world?  The whole group stepped in and took care of Carol and Sophia, to the point of ruining most of a season looking for Sophia.  Jessie lives in a community of cowards who've already made it clear nobody gives a shit about her or her kid because Pete's more important.  She's a real life STAHM whose main skill is owl making and hair styling, and she has a son to keep alive.

[chlban]

Am I the only one who could not care less about Jessie?  I find her blah and dull.  She has done nothing to make me give a damn about her one way or the other.  (Not that I want her to be beaten, but you know what I mean.)   I don't see why Rick suddenly has all of these powerful feelings for her when he has known her for 2 seconds.   I think the powerful feeling is in his pants.

 

I mean, Jessie is pretty.  That's about it.  She's not particularly engaging or interesting, and I see no chemistry between Jessie and Rick (yet).  I have no problem with Rick finally getting some action, but I wish it were going to be with someone more captivating.  Hopefully he will just get in a few romps and then move on.

Considering the "setting" I think it's more likely he'll get a few romps and then she'll get eaten.

 

I can't wait to see what kind of crazy that would bring.

[Mu Shu]

I know Rick thinks he has a point to make but when you compare the way of life both groups have lead up to this point, I have to say the Alexandrians make a pretty good case. They got their act together early, recognized things were bad, put up walls and have maintained a lifestyle that doesn't guarantee dysentary. This isn't the farm with a naive Herschel wishing away the apocalypse. These people built defenses and got organized. Rick hasn't done such a great job as leader that he gets to go all Shane on them and tell them that his way is better than theirs. The Alexandrians clearly have the better argument for how to survive thus far. If he would just do a little more thinking and lot less punching, Rick could fit right in.

That's true,  but it stretches the limits of believability that they lived there this long, unmolested, in the shadow of a heavily populated metro.    They would have been toast a long time ago.    There has to be another angle to how they survived, or it's probably the usual shoddy writing.

[chlban]

Daryl hasn't even been involved for a while. I tend to believe he just said "Peace out" and is avoiding them (or avoiding Rick, anyway) because by the last time he was with them he was obviously reluctant.

 

I don't really think Glenn or Michonne care about comfort. They just don't see the point of a brutal takeover. They don't trust it. And given that Rick would put Jessie over their welfare and the welfare of even his own children, I think they're totally right.

 

He wants to be a bad-ass. He wants the town to see him as a bad-ass. He probably also wanted to hang out with the hot, popular guy from a well-connected family, to validate him.

 

He's a post-ZA Eddie Haskell.

With all due respect, Eddie would so NOT be volunteering for runs. Great comparison though.

[Cheetosandchoc]

In regards to Tara and Judith, I'm sticking to my headcannon that Eugene is sitting with Tara and Maggie has the day off and is happily reading stories to Judith. Judith, meanwhile, is trying to distract Maggie long enough to start gnawing some teeth through using the book.

My little brain jumbled this all up and I pictured Eugene reading books to Judith. I liked that thought too.

[kikismom]

Surely if they have enough grain to make pasta, they can scrounge up enough grain for important things like alcohol.  Hmm...  I'll bet Mr. Niedermeyer goes around all day talking about how he needs a still.

 

Am I the only one who heard Aaron say they had crates of dry pasta?! Which is a hint, because no way did that pantry have crates of shit. I maintain my belief that this was not just a housing development but a place for a Politician to hide during civil disorder, terrorism, any other national/global shitstorm.

Either do I. So I looked it up.

 

Okay, let's try not to fling this one around, please with regard to Jessie or any of the other women. I know it was mentioned as a generic in passing "huh? why are people calling her that???", but otherwise, please don't . You guys have been good (as always) but yeah...if you feel the need...just don't. It's demeaning to women. Much appreciated.

THANK YOU!

Edited March 23, 2015 by kikismom

[kj4ever]

Since they are putting up with all this crap from Pete I could burn the whole place down and murder anyone I wanted (with the exception of Pete of course) when they found out I know how to make my own chocolate!

I will protect you with my very life!

 

Ok, so I've read through 9 pages about this episode, knowing there would be so much Whaaaa Jessie is boring crap and I seem to be the only person who thinks Enid is not only creepy, but dangerous.  No one else gets the feeling that that kid is BAD NEWS?

Edited March 23, 2015 by kj4ever