S05.E15: Try

[Lii]

Two things.

 

Where is my scene of Maggie telling SOMEONE what FPP said last episode?

 

Also, Deanna has ZERO manners. Twice this episode we were shown someone saying sorry for your loss to her. Not once did she express any remorse, fake or not, for CDB's loss. Where's our tuna casserole for Noah, biatch? Deanna is THE WORST.

[Anela]

 

And a sort of OT observation - compared to rest of the post - but the 'CDB' moniker really does apply to this group;

 

S1 - Atlanta camp got hit hard before left for CDC

S2 - Highway herd at the start and then Hershel's farm got overrun when they were there

S3 - Outer prison fences were always loaded with walkers

(first half of) S4 - Same as S3  /  (2nd half of) S4 saw Terminus get overrun during/after CDB's time there

(first half of) S5 -  Church attracted a mini-herd  /  (2nd half of) S5 is seeing ASZ [and surrounding areas] getting more and more walkers now

It does seem like they're being followed. I wonder if whomever is killing people for sport, and tying them to trees, knows about the group(s) and is leading the walkers their way. 

[Pete Martell]

I'm not sure so much that Rick's mooning over Jessie, rather that the community allows Pete to terrorize Jessie and the little cookie monster because he's a surgeon.   Alexandria has a caste system.  that's what's bugging Rick. 

 

I don't think Rick gives a crap about anything or anyone in Alexandria but Jessie. If Pete was whaling on Olivia, I have a feeling Rick would be happy to turn a blind eye. 

 

And yet again we have another episode where Jessie's POV, if you can call it that, is a mess. 

 

I hate that domestic violence is just a plot point in a "connection," because it's real sweet and real cute when the dream man who is clearly unhinged and dangerous lets you know he would save you and only you from beatings. 

 

Barbara Cartland, eat your heart out. 

 

Wait - on a show like this, that may just be a possibility. 

 

Eat your...I don't know...butterscotch pudding out.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I don't think Rick gives a crap about anything or anyone in Alexandria but Jessie. If Pete was whaling on Olivia, I have a feeling Rick would be happy to turn a blind eye. 

 

And yet again we have another episode where Jessie's POV, if you can call it that, is a mess. 

 

I hate that domestic violence is just a plot point in a "connection," because it's real sweet and real cute when the dream man who is clearly unhinged and dangerous lets you know he would save you and only you from beatings. 

 

Barbara Cartland, eat your heart out. 

 

Wait - on a show like this, that may just be a possibility. 

 

Eat your...I don't know...butterscotch pudding out.

 

But ya better hurry, before Carl beats you to it.

[Pete Martell]

There are many characters we don't "get to know" in all aspects, as some are, indeed, meant specifically to further the plot and/or characterization of a main character, and I think Jessie is one of those. We know her through her interactions with Rick, and also about her through Sam's interactions with Carol, and through Pete. I think that that's all that's really necessary. We barely knew Aiden, for example, and there are several other Alexandrians whom we know little about. To assume that Jessie requires more fleshing out is to, IMO, give her more importance than is actually necessary for the plot that she fuels to go forward.

 

The problem for me is that the total lack of characterization for her outside of being Rick's fantasy woman leads to a complete inability to read Rick or this situation. Is this supposed to be a hero saving an abuse victim? Or is it a mentally disturbed man obsessing over a scared woman who has no way out any way she goes? Are we supposed to be moved, as Jessie was, when he says he would not save any abuse victim but her? Are we supposed to like this, because it tells us she and Rick are the real thing? 

 

If Aiden had had one scene where he was a total asshole and another scene where he was a nice enough guy and Glenn acted like a lunatic around him, then I'd see the comparison more.

 

What bothers me the most is that this inconsistent writing is dragging down other characters, beyond the damage already done to Rick. I've seen people belittling Michonne, saying she is "the new Andrea" who has "chosen a warm bed over a friend."

 

The show has so romanticized Rick's obsessive attitude toward Jessie that other characters not going along with his belief that ONLY Jessie matters and screw the rest are now being seen as disloyal and selfish.

[Bec]

They keep firing loud guns, it's no wonder more walkers show up.

 

Why did Deanne take the note but leave the casserole on the porch?

My first thought was that she doesn't trust whoever left it not to poison the casserole. It's possible I have a twisted mind.

 

I'm over pretty much all of the ASZhats at this point.  They're fine with leaving people to die unnecessarily or their neighbors beating each other bloody as long as they get to continue to live their nice sheltered life.

This makes me realize something. The ASZhats are basically not that different from most people in the first world. Violence is already happening all around us, no zombies necessary, most people either don't even notice or try to justify allowing it to go on. Most people lead nice sheltered lives. Most people are complacent about the dangers the looms over us all. Most people talk a good game about being decent. Most people are more concerned about their own creature comforts. That goes for me, too. There's plenty of stuff I'm not willing to give up for someone who is pretty much nothing to me.

 

Normally I would be all for ending domestic violence and kicking the asses of abusive porch dicks, but I can't really fault Deanna for not caring about Jessie since I don't care about Jessie either.

 

Is it really so shocking Deanna would turn a blind eye to domestic violence? That's being done in our "civilized society" right now and we don't even have the zombie apocalypse as an excuse. The vitrol towards Deanna (and the rest of the ASZhats for that matter) seems a little much considering we have seen so much worse on this show. If season 1 Camp Dinner Bell magically got themselves a nice walled-off community, Rick would be almost exactly like Deanna now, and Carl would be like Aiden. Remember how clueless CDB used to be? Just like the ASZhats.

 

The writers seem to be trying to get across that this is not so much another "us vs them" story. They even have Glenn say "we are them." Not subtle, but I like it.

[Anela]

My first thought was that she doesn't trust whoever left it not to poison the casserole. It's possible I have a twisted mind.

 

I thought about poison, too. 

[Persnickety1]

Random thoughts...

 

The slice-and-dice person might be Morgan, leaving his initial (M as opposed to W) on some of them?  I've no idea why he would let some live branded yet dismember others but he was pretty well off into Crazy Town so...maybe?

 

Also, something tells me if Jessie were a dowdy middle aged overweight woman Rick wouldn't be nearly as interested in being her knight in shining armor.

 

Dude needs to tune back that testosterone just a hair.

 

I'm glad Michonne knocked his ass out.  The longer Rick raved, the more maniacal he sounded.

 

Too bad Maggie didn't confront the priest about his lies immediately right in front of Deanna.  Now every action taken by Rick and gang seems to fit precisely what the priest told her.  

 

And speaking of Maggie, for someone with a wealth of information to share with the others about that duplicitous priest, she was oddly absent this episode.  

 

Loving the growing bond between Carol and Sam.  Hopefully she won't take him out to a field of flowers anytime soon.  

Edited March 23, 2015 by Persnickety1

[Pete Martell]

Too bad Maggie didn't confront the priest about his lies immediately right in front of Deanna.  Now every action taken by Rick and gang seems to fit precisely what the priest told her.  

 

I think if she had it would have just validated the lies even more, because Deanna would have thought, "What are you so afraid of?" It would also mean that Deanna would know she could never trust Maggie, and she already barely trusts Maggie.

[RococoChanel]

I think I might check out of this show. I care about 0% of the battered wife storyline and there, I'll say it: I think Andrew Lincoln is a horrible actor. Every time he's on screen doing his patented open mouth stare off into the distance while having a conversation, I roll my eyes. 

 

I can't believe this is the same show as the first episode. I honestly thought the pilot was groundbreaking TV and slowly this show has devolved into a melodrama with zombies. I can't take it anymore. :-/

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Loved all the woods scenes. I wish they were more proactive taking out Walkers. The Walkers thin them down, I wish they would try and proactively thin down the Zombie hoards too.

I always hated that they didn't do this at the prison. I would have made it a team job for people to be out there poking walkers in the head with sharp sticks and whatnot. There's no reason why they shouldn't, which is why I was glad we saw Sasha doing it, even if it was some sort of therapy, in its own way.

 

I did think when Sasha was thinning the walkers that she was going to shoot the support beams to the wall and let the bunch in the ASZ. I thought that would be interesting, having Rick and PorchDick rolling on the ground and walkers coming toward to onlookers out of nowhere. I would have loved to see a few have their sinew exposed. Gross but awesome.

Sheldon: Metal ear tags with radio transmitters keep falling out...

Raj: Ankle bands are never tight enough...

Penny: What about carving into their skin?

Sheldon & Raj: Hmmmm

The W is for Wolowitz?

[Pete Martell]

I think I might check out of this show. I care about 0% of the battered wife storyline and there, I'll say it: I think Andrew Lincoln is a horrible actor. Every time he's on screen doing his patented open mouth stare off into the distance while having a conversation, I roll my eyes. 

 

I can't believe this is the same show as the first episode. I honestly thought the pilot was groundbreaking TV and slowly this show has devolved into a melodrama with zombies. I can't take it anymore. :-/

 

I think it's always been melodrama, probably since episode 2 at the latest (for me). Those godawful roof scenes with Merle and the rainbow coalition Rick had to save were the worst of melodrama and it has navigated that road, sometimes smoothly, sometimes like Simpsons Hit And Run, ever since. 

 

I think Andrew's a great actor, but this is HAM material, unplayable material. If anything I almost appreciate him playing it for what it is - ugly trash. I get the feeling he isn't all that thrilled with it either and a result is not playing up the "romance" that the script, and Gale Anne Hurd, the woman who plays Jessie, Chris Hardwick, et al. seem to be pushing. 

 

The basic problem I have with it is using a woman's abuse to try to sell a love story, especially when her "savior" is utterly terrifying.

 

The show wants it both ways, and (to me) is failing miserably at both. 

 

And above all else, the actors don't even have chemistry. (to me)

 

I think it's just a bad joke. I'm just not sure who the joke is on.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Helena Dax]

Michonne knocked out Rick to save him from himself. My head!canon is she saved her man from himself. I will not have this taken away from me!

I believe that too. Or maybe Ramsay Bolton's expecting a new delivery.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

My question is: do they have helium in that place or something? I saw the balloon and was like, "what the heck?"

(I know, everyone else has thought provoking analysis and I'm fixated on the feasibility of a balloon.)

My mom saw it and said "what the hell is up with the balloon?" I said maybe it's there because Rick is actually a ghost. (A la Sixth Sense)

 

I thought it was the last glimmer of hope/sanity Rick had. As he rolled on the ground with PorchDick, it flew away. Symbolism, man.

[NurseGiGi]

Ugh.  I'm SO tired of character assassination being used to further a plot.  This could have been handled so much better.

[Haleth]

Sonequa was outstanding last night.  Rick deserved a punch to the head but Sasha needs some serious therapy.  Worst case of Post Traumatic Stress of anyone.  Steve Yeun was fantastic in his scene with Nicholas too.

 

The Jessie storyline keeps getting worse and is destroying Rick's character.  I hate it, show.  I see no chemistry between them and if his motivation for the fight was to protect the woman he loves, it was too rushed, there was no build up to make us care.  If the fight was because he's crazy, we should have seen him in other situations that built up the tension, rather than flirting with one woman.  The disaster at the warehouse should have been his breaking point, not a soapy love triangle that makes no sense for the character and drags down the plot.

 

Guess Carl and Judith are not going to get their check ups after all.

 

I'm not sure Deanna bought what Nick was selling.  She may turn a blind eye to the Pete situation but she does seem to understand that her people need help.  She grieves for her son and won't eat tuna casserole (can you blame her? :P ) but I think she knows that the fiasco wasn't because of anything Glenn did.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Haleth

[Caelicola]

Ugh.  I'm SO tired of character assassination being used to further a plot.  This could have been handled so much better.

I actually never really understood the concept of character assassination. Sometimes characters do stupid, out of character things, or huge mistakes, or irrational things, but in my experience so do real people. I can't count how many times someone I thought I knew very well did something I never would have expected them to do, sometimes in positively surprising ways, others in really disappointing ways.

I'm pretty certain that I, myself, have done grossly stupid stuff that made the people who know me go "WTF is she doing, this isn't like her", from really small things to bigger, more important ones.

I don't know, I just don't really see Carol killing Karvid and Rick losing it completely as character assassination, just irrational, deranged decision making, that can happen in real life as well, compounded by the fucked up situation they live in.

I don't have the highest trust in these writers, and I certainly don't think they can do no wrong, but the concept itself of character assassination is something I just don't get.

[NorthstarATL]

The problem for me is that the total lack of characterization for her outside of being Rick's fantasy woman leads to a complete inability to read Rick or this situation. Is this supposed to be a hero saving an abuse victim? Or is it a mentally disturbed man obsessing over a scared woman who has no way out any way she goes? Are we supposed to be moved, as Jessie was, when he says he would not save any abuse victim but her? Are we supposed to like this, because it tells us she and Rick are the real thing? 

 

If Aiden had had one scene where he was a total asshole and another scene where he was a nice enough guy and Glenn acted like a lunatic around him, then I'd see the comparison more.

 

What bothers me the most is that this inconsistent writing is dragging down other characters, beyond the damage already done to Rick. I've seen people belittling Michonne, saying she is "the new Andrea" who has "chosen a warm bed over a friend."

 

The show has so romanticized Rick's obsessive attitude toward Jessie that other characters not going along with his belief that ONLY Jessie matters and screw the rest are now being seen as disloyal and selfish.

I guess for me the difference is that I'm seeing the story as the same for Rick as for Michonne or Carl or Sasha or any of the core group: a very real dissonance between what was, what is, and what could be. Each of them has a memory (maybe less so Carl) of life before the ZA and all the hopes and dreams that that entailed, a clear sense of the very real danger that is out there beyond the walls of Alexandria,  and conflicting views of what Alexandria might be able to provide in terms of a future. Jessie and her situation is just bringing all these conflicts within Rick to the surface.  I don't see it as a "romance" so much as a further exploration of Rick's damaged psyche, and therefore who exactly Jessie is is not as important as what she represents to Rick.

[kikismom]

Rick doesn't like pickled foods.

 

Oooh, a new name for doctor---Kick-Ass Pickled Pete!

Since Rick believed that death was the solution to the Pete problem and he believed that these people are too weak to really deal with tough problems, he should have just taking Pete somewhere and killed him. 

 

This tells me that Rick is not that crazy or is all about killing to solve the problem. This tell me that Rick is still struggling with his RickTator side, the old Rick is still in him because him going to Deanna and Jessie, instead of just coming up with a plan, execute it and be done with Pete, shows that he wanted to do the right thing. He was looking for another solution, despite believing that kill Pete was the best solution.

 

Also, why did Carol bring this to Rick instead of just doing the job herself ? Carol is totally capable of doing the job herself without Rick's input and without people finding out that she did it. I mean she did before.  

Since Halcyon Days made a reference to it, I think Carol is hearing your comment and I'd give her about 7 days. If you catch my drift.

 

It is an interesting juxtaposition between Rick's "broken window theory" from last week which says we have to pay attention to the small crimes to keep the big ones from happening and Deanna's "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few" theory of a doctor helps more people than an abuser hurts.

He talks about broken window theory, then sends someone through a window!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Ugh.  I'm SO tired of character assassination being used to further a plot.  This could have been handled so much better.

THIS!

Take away the Richonne component, this is so OOC for Rick.

Especially when him saying, I wouldn't do this for anyone.

The same man, that was ready to GO HARD against Dawn to protect Noah.

A kid he barely knew. Then offered to take any of the abused Hospital folks.

After Dawn killed Beth.

I miss THAT Rick Grimes, where is he?

[Pete Martell]

I guess for me the difference is that I'm seeing the story as the same for Rick as for Michonne or Carl or Sasha or any of the core group: a very real dissonance between what was, what is, and what could be. Each of them has a memory (maybe less so Carl) of life before the ZA and all the hopes and dreams that that entailed, a clear sense of the very real danger that is out there beyond the walls of Alexandria,  and conflicting views of what Alexandria might be able to provide in terms of a future. Jessie and her situation is just bringing all these conflicts within Rick to the surface.  I don't see it as a "romance" so much as a further exploration of Rick's damaged psyche, and therefore who exactly Jessie is is not as important as what she represents to Rick.

 

I'd like to see it that way too, but every time Hardwick or one of the producers talk about "chemistry" or the "feelings" between them, or when we get scenes like Jessie being moved because Rick says he doesn't give a crap about any abuse victim in the world but her, I feel like they are trying to sell this as some type of love connection. And as a result the whole thing just ends up making me uneasy and making me wonder exactly how this show sees abuse victims.

[nodorothyparker]

I think Andrew's a great actor, but this is HAM material, unplayable material. If anything I almost appreciate him playing it for what it is - ugly trash. I get the feeling he isn't all that thrilled with it either and a result is not playing up the "romance" that the script, and Gale Anne Hurd, the woman who plays Jessie, Chris Hardwick, et al. seem to be pushing. 

 

The basic problem I have with it is using a woman's abuse to try to sell a love story, especially when her "savior" is utterly terrifying.

 

The show wants it both ways, and (to me) is failing miserably at both. 

 

And above all else, the actors don't even have chemistry. (to me)

 

All of this.  I woke up thinking about all the reasons why this story isn't working as TPTB and TTD are trying to sell it because it's better than waking up thinking about how much I hate trying to get everybody out of the house on time on Monday mornings.  The scene with Rick and Jessie where Rick was mouthbreathing and almost nonverbal before whatever the hell that was about how he wouldn't bother to save just any abuse victim was terrifying.  If that's what they were going for kudos, but part of me thinks that was supposed to be some kind of declaration so we'd see the "connection" between the two, which makes it all the worse.  Painted in that light, the show is asking an abuse victim to choose between a guy who's already beating her and a guy who's giving off major obsessive creeper vibes and we're supposed to be rooting for the latter. 

 

I've said before, I think on the women of TWD thread, that the major failing of the entire abuse storyline aside from it being rushed is that it's apparently about everybody but the person actually being abused.  We've seen Carol, Rick, Sam, and even Pete and Deanna's take on what's happening, but it's become a classic tell not show situation where up until the street fight there's only been one actual scene where Jessie was allowed to have any feeling about it or any stake in her own story.  I can't help but contrast this with how we were introduced to Carol and Ed way back in season 1.  Sure, everybody was being drawn rather broadly then, but we got to see Ed manhandle Carol and be an ass to other women and generally everyone in camp.  Carol was shown interacting with other people and trying to be useful even if it was doing something stupid like ironing uniform shirts in the apocalypse.  She may have been weak and cringing, but she had her moments and we had a pretty good idea what she felt about it all.  When Shane beat down Ed, that wasn't about her either, but it managed to still feel like a really cathartic hell ya moment.  Not so with the Rick-Pete fight.  When the writing for a story is better in seasons 1 or 2, with all their rampant misogyny and just all around terrible writing of women and relationships, the show has a real problem. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Ellaria]

-  Really wish they would have started the whole ASZ plot before the last 5 eps of the season.  Everything has just felt so incredibly rushed and has made for a lot of inorganic storytelling.  Not to mention not seeing people from "our group" for whole eps, or more. 

 

Yes, the last few episodes have been rushed. 

 

There was a lot thrown at viewers this season: Terminus, the cannibals, Morgan, the church, Father Gabriel, Bob's death, the fire truck and Abraham's backstory, the group splitting and coming back together, the awful hospital sidebar, Noah, Beth's death, Eugene's deception, trip to Noah's hometown, Tyreese's death, Unfair Wolves, walking around in the woods, meeting Aaron, arriving at ASZ, cocktail parties at ASZ, Noah's death, etc.

 

I'm not advocating for more of the existential discussions that we got in S2 but the above list is a lot of plot for one season and for the multitude of characters, many of whom take a break every other episode. Much of this season has felt rushed...other than the hospital story line which was given lots of time. New people joined the group and then receded into the background. There are branded walkers running around and Unfair Wolves lurking in the shadows and only the viewers seem to be aware of it.

 

There should have been a slower build as ASZ and the Grimes Gang got to know each other. Right now, the conversations seem stilted and unnatural. Information isn't being shared. Rick's focus on Jessie and his descent into all-out crazy seems misplaced at the moment. I'm more concerned about Sasha's state of mind, Gabriel's loyalty, Maggie's lack of action, etc. I seem to be saying, "Wait, what about...?" often this season.

[mla40]

It was creepy having Carol standing on her porch 20 feet away from Jessie and her kids just staring at them, then out pops Rick only to talk about them with them while they are right there. Evening voices carry, that was some good acting by jessie and her kids to pretend they didn't notice them.

[Rhodri]

 

I love that Sam is going to Carol for comfort while his dad was fighting RickGriiiimes. He's like the stray puppy that just wouldn't leave, and it looks like she loves him a little bit too.

His instincts are pretty good - his mom sure can't protect him.  Carol can protect him from psycho adults and zombies.

 

I know that Sasha is just losing it but she's losing it in a way that is pretty serviceable in the ZA.  I don't think that it's a waste of bullets to clear out the hoards.  Although it was more efficient to head stake them through the chain link fence in the prison, they don't have that option here.  One zombie can not only kill people but also make more zombies.  Best to kill as many as possible whenever possible.  Maybe it's doubling as therapy?  In any case let her do what she is good at until she feels like talking about it.

 

I never liked Glenn before but he seemed like the only voice of reason this episode.  Maybe he always was and I just didn't notice?

 

Still liking the Aaron/Darryl dynamic.  I hope they point out that there something going on outside the wall soon so people can unite about it.  My hope is that this is when the group proves to everyone their value.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Rhodri

[KarateKate]

In re: thinning the herd/Sasha wall shooting-

I always hated that they didn't do this at the prison. I would have made it a team job for people to be out there poking walkers in the head with sharp sticks and whatnot. There's no reason why they shouldn't, which is why I was glad we saw Sasha doing it, even if it was some sort of therapy, in its own way[snip]

But didn't they? They seemed to have that as a chore at the prison. Half day in the farm, half day in between the barbed fences jabbing walkers, and every so often a mention was made about clearing them off the fence.

Or do you mean they should have gone out to thin them in the surrounding woods?

[peach]

I think maybe when Rick said he wouldn't "do this" for anyone else, it had to do with being willing to take on responsibility for Jessie and her child afterward. 

[Pete Martell]

I think maybe when Rick said he wouldn't "do this" for anyone else, it had to do with being willing to take on responsibility for Jessie and her child afterward. 

 

I can see that as a possibility, but I wish it had been clarified, because all I kept thinking is - how many abused wives, mothers of abused children, are going to only agree to leave if the man in question says he wouldn't try to help anyone else?

 

That scene upset me a great deal, because it inextricably linked her being beaten with this being some type of romance or that she somehow needed to know she was "special."

 

I don't know if this is supposed to be some kind of "all-consuming love" or what have you and we're supposed to be caught up in Rick putting her so much above others, but it just felt so wrong to me - the entire scene. Not just that element of it, but the acting, the dialogue, everything. I was embarrassed for everyone involved. This story has repeatedly generated some of the worst scenes I can remember in 5 seasons of this show.

 

And while I realize Rick owes Tara nothing, and he could have killed her right after Terminus, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that after all the talk of "family," he didn't bat an eye when multiple people told him Tara could die if he killed her husband. He didn't even act like it was a difficult choice but one he would make. He just did not care. 

 

If Tara dies because of this then I don't think I will ever be able to forgive him, because this isn't about survival, or hard choices - this is about he wants what he wants, and screw anybody else.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[NorthstarATL]

I'd like to see it that way too, but every time Hardwick or one of the producers talk about "chemistry" or the "feelings" between them, or when we get scenes like Jessie being moved because Rick says he doesn't give a crap about any abuse victim in the world but her, I feel like they are trying to sell this as some type of love connection. And as a result the whole thing just ends up making me uneasy and making me wonder exactly how this show sees abuse victims.

I see what you mean. I tend to avoid interviews (and the Talking Dead except for the next week preview) for that reason. I want the show to tell me its story. If the "extras" become necessary in order to understand it, then the writers aren't doing their jobs. As far as how the show treats victims of abuse, Carol and Daryl are the examples I look to. Again, IMO, Jessie's story is about Rick, Carol, and Alexandria (as represented by Deanna). Rick responds overtly and publicly and is made a pariah, while Deanna (and the town) turn a blind eye because of the "importance" of the abuser, yet their stance is deemed acceptable. It's really kind of scarier than even Woodbury when you think about it.

Edited March 23, 2015 by NorthstarATL

[queenanne]

I think we might be being "had", in retrospect.  Rick knocked Carl (his actual flesh and blood) down and Michonne had to stove his head in in the commission of defending his damsel, that doesn't strike me as a show telling me that said character is viewed as making correct decisions.

[Pete Martell]

I think we might be being "had", in retrospect.  Rick knocked Carl (his actual flesh and blood) down and Michonne had to stove his head in in the commission of defending his damsel, that doesn't strike me as a show telling me that said character is viewed as making correct decisions.

 

I think we're supposed to think Rick is more than a little crazy, and I've always felt like that from the time he started making weird eyes at her and reaching for his gun in "Forget," but I feel like they want us to be concerned while also seeing this as some type of powerful romance. Otherwise I don't know why they would have included the scene of her responding to him only when he said he'd help no one else. 

 

I think it's written as some type of darkness in Rick that is supposed to horrify but also heartbreak, because he would do anything for this woman, she needs him, no one but Rick (and Carol, who of course barely interacts with her because I guess we already got our quota of women interacting elsewhere in the episode) gives a damn. 

 

It just seems incoherent to me, because no, I don't want to see people turn a blind eye to a wife being beaten, but the idea that this is the only other solution, that this justifies such extreme behavior and Rick obliterating anything and everything else he has ever believed in, including his own children - it just doesn't feel earned to me.

 

And not to pile on, because I haven't seen her in anything else and this wasn't a particularly well-directed or written episode or acted episode in general, but I just don't think the woman who plays Jessie has the chops for some of the dramatic scenes. She just fell very flat over and over in those last ten minutes, especially when she had to cry.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kj4ever]

There are two things you don't want to be in the ZA.  A child being looked after by Carol, or lost with Daryl trying to find you.  Run Sam!

 

I thought Jessie changed her tune when Rick told her that Sam was asking for a gun.  You saw a change in her whole demeanor.  You would think he would have said that in the garage.

 

I'm totally bored with Sasha.  She needs to go.  I haven't been able to stand her from the start so I'm not digging so much time devoted to her.  At least it gave us an awesome scene with Michonne.

[I-Kare]

My mom saw it and said "what the hell is up with the balloon?" I said maybe it's there because Rick is actually a ghost. (A la Sixth Sense)

 

I thought it was the last glimmer of hope/sanity Rick had. As he rolled on the ground with PorchDick, it flew away. Symbolism, man.

I think you're probably right! And I'm sure it being a red balloon meant something. 

[peach]

The Rick and Jessie dynamic only upsets me because it is stupid and unbelievable.  I can't get mad at Rick when the show veers away from making sense, because my emotions aren't engaged, just my annoyance.  I got super angry when he banished Carol because it seemed exactly like something Rick would do.  lol  NOBODY in this story acts the way people really do, except for Deanna.  I would find it fascinating and much more believable if Jessie saw the rugged stranger walk into town and had a flash of hope that maybe this guy would be her way out in a town that turned a blind eye to her.  But instead she bops around cheerily, making owls, and not displaying any anger, fear, sadness, bitterness, NOTHING.  She seems happier and more relaxed than anyone we've met in the ZA.  As has been said many times, she's a plot device, not a person.

 

As far as Rick saying he's only doing this for her, even my teenage sons rolled their eyes.

I did like the unhinged rant, because he's been so coiled up and tense since Terminus that it's all spewing out at once.

[SevenStars]

Rick was just fine leaving Dawn and her violent, rapey lollipops in charge as long as they gave back Beth. So, yeah, if Rick hasn't specifically decided that he likes you, he really doesn't give a crap what happens to you.

 

But did Rick knows what was going on in the hospital? Because I don't remember Noah telling him anything about that.

 

With that said, in this episode Rick implied to Carol that he wouldn't care about the Pete/Jess situation if he didn't care/want Jessie and he told Jessie he wouldn't be doing this for another woman. That to me make him not much different from Deanna. Both of them are taking a stand in this situation base on what they want. Deanna wants a doctor, so she is willing to allow Pete to continue to beat on his wife. Rick wants Jessie, so he is determine to play hero in order to have her. 

[KarateKate]

Clean shaven Rick = Alexandria Safe Zone

You breath a sigh of relief. It looks normal!

 

But in the zombie apocalypse, normal is a lie. A mirage.

The reality of the crazy lurks just below the surface, hinted at like a 5 o'clock shadow, and just one bad day away from full on breakthrough, and that which looks normal is more dangerous than that with its crazy on display.

Edited March 23, 2015 by KarateKate

[ghoulina]

Where is my scene of Maggie telling SOMEONE what FPP said last episode?

 

Thank you! Surely they showed her overhearing it for a reason? I felt like we were robbed of quite a few scenes last night. Yes, I wanted to see Maggie out FPP and his treachery. I would have much rather seen the initial arrival back from the run, how everyone reacted, than having to suffer through Aiden's family playing his tragic techno music to remember him . Egads, that was awful. And I would have liked to see Tara. How is she doing? Is Eugene sitting bedside vigil? What's Dr. Porch Dick's prognosis? Was he too drunk to attend to her when she first arrived? 

 

All of that would have been much more interesting than Rick and his stupid soap opera bullshit. 

 

 

 

I don't think Rick gives a crap about anything or anyone in Alexandria but Jessie. If Pete was whaling on Olivia, I have a feeling Rick would be happy to turn a blind eye.

 

That's sure how the writers are setting it up. They flat out had Rick say he wouldn't do this for anyone else. Which is such utter fucking bullshit. Rick has taken MANY risks for people outside of his family. He flat out left his family to go back downtown and rescue Merle's sorry ass. He didn't hesitate for a second to run after someone else's child when she was fleeing walkers. Even as recently as the first half of this season he was ready to take all the hospital wards with him, and he went to VA for Noah's sake. Now all of a sudden he's this singular-minded bastard who only cares about the hot blonde? (He hasn't really said about a word about her kids, has he?) It's such utter fucking bullshit and I hate the writers for making me hate my favorite dude on this show. 

 

 

 

My first thought was that she doesn't trust whoever left it not to poison the casserole. It's possible I have a twisted mind.

 

Carol should have poisoned that damn casserole. 

 

 

 

But didn't they? They seemed to have that as a chore at the prison. Half day in the farm, half day in between the barbed fences jabbing walkers, and every so often a mention was made about clearing them off the fence.

Or do you mean they should have gone out to thin them in the surrounding woods?

 

You weren't quoting me, but yea - get rid of them before they even GET to your fence! They should have traps rigged up in the woods outside the prison. Dig a trench or something for them to fall into, then you can just knife them all and not waste any ammo. But for God's sake, don't let them get that close. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by ghoulina

[Bad Example]

My question is: do they have helium in that place or something? I saw the balloon and was like, "what the heck?"

(I know, everyone else has thought provoking analysis and I'm fixated on the feasibility of a balloon.)

 

I, too, had to do a thorough mental evaluation of "heliumgate".  "Helium?  Why the hell do they have helium?  If there was a tank or two around at the beginning, surely they'd be gone by now.  Did someone actually bring back helium on a run?  Maybe to decorate for the Friday Night Dance Party?  That's some terrible prioritizing..."  

 

(Yeah.  I spent a bit too much time on that one, too.)

 

When Carol was thinking of what to write on the card to Deanna, she looked at the video baby monitor that showed Judith. It's her at least some of the time, then.

 

THANK YOU.  Speaking of the utter trivia I worry about, I couldn't figure out what was with the baby in the picture frame she was looking at, and Mr. Bad Example didn't know, either.  Ah-ha.  Baby monitor.  Not picture frame.

 

That actually makes me feel a lot better.  I worried that Judith was with an aszhat, considering her baby-popularity.  I wondered at Rick allowing that considering how he feels about that.  I don't think Carol's necessarily a baby person, but having Judith with her reassures me.  

 

Aside from all of that, I wanted Sasha to come down out of the tower and say "While you two idiots were out measuring dicks, I took down over a half dozen walkers at the walls.  Wanna do something about that, mofos?"  I get Sasha has some serious PTSD, but she's not wrong.  Those walls are far too frail.

 

I see that a lot of people are getting frustrated with Sasha lately, but I am falling more and more in love with her.  I think the actress is completely rocking it, and all of her PTSD doesn't annoy me, it makes me want to help her.  She might be falling apart, but like you said, she's not wrong.

 

What bothers me the most is that this inconsistent writing is dragging down other characters, beyond the damage already done to Rick. I've seen people belittling Michonne, saying she is "the new Andrea" who has "chosen a warm bed over a friend."

 

That is the dumbest thing I've encountered.  I think we're seeing more and more just how much of a thinker and ponderer Michonne is.  She's making measured decisions, which is light years away from how Andrea behaved.  Not agreeing with Rick does not mean she's not his friend.

 

Rick's focus on Jessie and his descent into all-out crazy seems misplaced at the moment. 

 

Exactly that.  I get a little bit crazy, but don't understand why it's so extreme right now.

[peach]

I can see that as a possibility, but I wish it had been clarified, because all I kept thinking is - how many abused wives, mothers of abused children, are going to only agree to leave if the man in question says he wouldn't try to help anyone else?

 

That scene upset me a great deal, because it inextricably linked her being beaten with this being some type of romance or that she somehow needed to know she was "special."

Well, as for wishing things would be clarified, from your mouth to God's ear. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I believe his attitude is supposed to be about taking care of her in the future.  Just like now, people love to say "why doesn't she leave him?" but they aren't usually willing to take said person and their kids in or anything.  Maybe ASZ doesn't just want a doctor, they don't want to deal with another single parent needing more resources or something.  Rick's offering to do something about Pete, AND take care of her and her son. 

[kj4ever]

I think we're supposed to think Rick is more than a little crazy, and I've always felt like that from the time he started making weird eyes at her and reaching for his gun in "Forget," but I feel like they want us to be concerned while also seeing this as some type of powerful romance. Otherwise I don't know why they would have included the scene of her responding to him only when he said he'd help no one else. 

 

I think it's written as some type of darkness in Rick that is supposed to horrify but also heartbreak, because he would do anything for this woman, she needs him, no one but Rick (and Carol, who of course barely interacts with her because I guess we already got our quota of women interacting elsewhere in the episode) gives a damn. 

 

It just seems incoherent to me, because no, I don't want to see people turn a blind eye to a wife being beaten, but the idea that this is the only other solution, that this justifies such extreme behavior and Rick obliterating anything and everything else he has ever believed in, including his own children - it just doesn't feel earned to me.

 

And not to pile on, because I haven't seen her in anything else and this wasn't a particularly well-directed or written episode or acted episode in general, but I just don't think the woman who plays Jessie has the chops for some of the dramatic scenes. She just fell very flat over and over in those last ten minutes, especially when she had to cry.

Yes Rick is Coo Coo for Coco Puffs but he didn't just start fighting with him.  He told him to leave.  Jessie told him to leave. He didn't just kill him. Pete attacked him and he fought back.  I think the fight just pushed him over the edge because he couldn't believe these people are so stupid.

[nachomama]

No way is that Morgan carving into heads, I think he's trailing whoever that is and maybe when he shows up he can slap some sense into Rick like Rick once did for him. 

 

Deanna is a politician through and through, ignore a wife beater, and mollify father pee pee pants or whomever comes along, just always have an answer but never accomplish any change. 

 

I know they thinned the herds at the prison with stabby sticks and cleared away the bodies. They should have set up traps like either pits or the giant barbed wire pokey sticks ( these are technical terms) Morgan had set up, Michonne made them out of pipe organs from FPP church. Some kind of perimeter and a patrol. The more noise that comes from home base, that's where the walkers are drawn to. So a great big egg timer in the woods to draw them to a pit, roast em every day. 

[CrashTextDummie]

This is what I want to think but she asked him if he would do it for anyone else and he said no.  We KNOW that he would do it for anyone else, so I'm putting it down to crazy talk, but I really wish he hadn't said that, it was just ridiculous to me.

 

I thought he said it mostly to get her to consent. It was pretty clear that she needed a "yes" when she asked the question. I actually think it's pretty subtle writing. I don't get the impression that they're head over heels for each other, but that she needed reassurance that someone would care enough personally for her to keep her safe if she decided to kick out Ed.

[bosawks]

I'll be honest about the fact that I will be slightly amused if Deanna "banishes" Rick.

 

Although it looks like he doesn't get a mid 90's American made station wagon, so, bad form there Deanna.

[stretch]

My question is: do they have helium in that place or something? I saw the balloon and was like, "what the heck?"

(I know, everyone else has thought provoking analysis and I'm fixated on the feasibility of a balloon.)

 

I was so irrationally annoyed at that damn balloon and the utter stupidity of it, that it took me completely out of the episode. It became a symbol of the stupid, inconsistent writing on this show for me and I think the only reason I'm watching anymore is because I know what I want the show to be, and I keep hoping vainly that it'll become that. The occasional flashes of it keep me sucked in, I guess.

 

Balloon aside, the whole episode felt disjointed and confusing. I understood everything that was happening, but none of it made any sense from a character or story standpoint. And I'm with everyone above - they need to stop trying to do romance, because they are beyond terrible at it. Sorry, Coral, I just don't care about you and Enid (what kind of name is Enid for a young girl, anyway) and obviously, the Rick/Jessie storyline is a complete fail on every level. Oh God, I'm so bitter.

[Pete Martell]

Yes Rick is Coo Coo for Coco Puffs but he didn't just start fighting with him.  He told him to leave.  Jessie told him to leave. He didn't just kill him. Pete attacked him and he fought back.  I think the fight just pushed him over the edge because he couldn't believe these people are so stupid.

 

I'm not putting all the blame on Rick for that fight, some of it also goes to her husband, but it was a situation that was going to lead up to a fight, and Rick must have known that. I think on some level he wanted it.

[MissScarlett]

Honestly, I could get behind Rick all the way if the writers didn't insist on portraying Rick as ONLY caring that Pete hits Jessie because he's into her. I wouldn't even care if he was into her, but to have him say he wouldn't do this for anyone else? Really? I don't buy that for a minute. He'd just let any other wife beater walk free? No. Fuck that. It's really taking me out of the moment, to be honest. 

 

THIS.  Couldn't agree more!

 

This whole Rick / Jessie pair up is happening way too fast and furious for me.  I don't see the chemistry at all.  Seems more like a plot device than something sincere.

[Pete Martell]

I thought he said it mostly to get her to consent. It was pretty clear that she needed a "yes" when she asked the question. I actually think it's pretty subtle writing. I don't get the impression that they're head over heels for each other, but that she needed reassurance that someone would care enough personally for her to keep her safe if she decided to kick out Ed.

 

I think this would have worked for me if she'd said it in a different way beyond asking if he would do this for anyone but her. 

 

Maybe it's a dialogue issue. 

 

I thought a lot of the dialogue was very heavy-handed, and it worked at times (like Glenn telling Nicholas he should be dead), but not others. 

 

I also hated the line Enid had to Carl - "it's their world and we're living in it." That's so pat and so cute. It's a greeting card line, not what someone like Enid would have said. 

 

While I'm complaining, I really thought those scenes were far less compelling than they should have been, between the slo-mo run (hated that, hated it) and the cheesy emo dialogue. If they'd gone on a bit longer I think they would have both become goths. 

[Bad Example]

No way is that Morgan carving into heads, I think he's trailing whoever that is and maybe when he shows up he can slap some sense into Rick like Rick once did for him. 

 

We can only hope. Someone's got to do it.

 

 

I know they thinned the herds at the prison with stabby sticks and cleared away the bodies. They should have set up traps like either pits or the giant barbed wire pokey sticks ( these are technical terms) Morgan had set up, Michonne made them out of pipe organs from FPP church. Some kind of perimeter and a patrol. The more noise that comes from home base, that's where the walkers are drawn to. So a great big egg timer in the woods to draw them to a pit, roast em every day. 

 

Oh, preach it.  I'm a big fan of the pit idea and I've been wondering since the prison why they didn't start digging a trench around it, then set it on fire every morning.  But they can't be TOO safe.

[Sakura12]

I guess the crazy homeless beard was just covering the crazy. Once he shaved it all came out. I think Yvette Nicole Brown said it best on Talking Dead, Carol is holding everything to her chest and Rick is running around showing all his cards to everyone. 

 

Rick's infatuation with Jessie is what's throwing me off. It's like it's the first time he's seen a woman in 2 years which makes no sense being that he has a ton of them in this group. I can understand if it was Carl since he's not seen another kid his age let alone a girl his age since Sophia. But even he's able to have normal in the ZA conversations with Enid, while his adult father is not. 

 

Deanna's all about the image of civilization than actually surviving. Her people are in no way prepared for the world outside. Even the girl that's been there for 8 months doesn't want to forget what's outside the gates. You have to fix the foundation first before rebuilding on top of it. That's why you don't let a politician run things. They only like to throw pretty things on top of everything without actually fixing the problem. 

 

Also why in the world would she believe Nicolas's story? I thought it was their way to leave people behind when it got too tough, wasn't that what the construction guy said? It's also not like they only lost her idiot son, they lost Noah. 

 

If Sasha wants to go around killing walkers, I say let her. Although maybe tell her to use knifes or sharp objects instead of wasting all the ammo. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Sakura12

[Bad Example]

I also hated the line Enid had to Carl - "it's their world and we're living in it." That's so pat and so cute. It's a greeting card line, not what someone like Enid would have said. 

 

I, on the other hand, thought it was exactly the sort of thing a teenage-dumb girl (or guy) would say and think she was being so insightful and profound.  I heard that and thought, "Dear God, Carl, don't fall in with that line of bullshit because you think she's cute."