S05.E15: Try

[Bad Example]

 

* I got nervous when Michonne went outside without the katana. Rosita pointing out that she was without her katana only made it worse for me.

 

* Time for ASZ residents to elect Michonne "boss of us."

 

I didn't realize she didn't have it until Rosita pointed it out, and then I got positively twitchy!

 

I didn't take the Michonne scenes as just showing her being a badass.  I think Michonne has a lot going on in her head and the actress playing her does a phenomenal job communicating that, like the scene in the bedroom with the laundry basket and her staring at it and then going over a pulling her clothes for the day out and tossing them on the bed.  And I found it interesting that Rosita came to her about Sasha.  I don't think the group sees her as the resident badass, I think they see her as the capable one, the one who keeps her cool, who can be counted on.  She'd be the one I'd go to as well.  

 

I agree.  Michonne feels very thoughtful to me of late, as if she's been pondering. She may not have the answers and she's still trying to figure it out, but she IS trying to figure it all out instead of going with the flow.  

[catrox14]

I thought Carol had already worked out her issues involving her wife beater husband, with everything she's done to show herself that she is strong and can take care of herself and even, with the Terminus attack, save other people, too.   I guess I'd be more enamored with her role in all this if she had gone to Jessie and tried to help her directly instead of sending unstable Rick to do it.    If I were of a dark, cynical disposition, I might suspect that's what Carol was up to all along, get Rick to blow himself up.  

 

She took out her rage on Ed after he became zombie chow. She grew to be a stronger person.  But IMO she didn't really solve the Ed problem herself. By either leaving him or having him prosecuted or even killing him herself. This is her life in her face again.

[Dodginblue]

She took out her rage on Ed after he became zombie chow. She grew to be a stronger person.  But IMO she didn't really solve the Ed problem herself. By either leaving him or having him prosecuted or even killing him herself. This is her life in her face again.

 

And she's not solving Jessie's problem herself either.  She's getting Rick to do it.    Which the way it's playing out may not actually lead to Jessie being in any better place than she's been in given how Rick chose to handle things.

 

 If I remember correctly, I think we had some idea that she actually did leave Ed, she knew about the domestic abuse shelter near Grady when they went back to Atlanta.  Granted,a shelter isn't a long term solution and since she was with Ed when the ZA happened I guess it means that if she did leave she went back to him.

 

But yes, maybe this is what's happening, Carol's looking for a do-over on her own life pre-ZA and getting it vicariously through Jessie.  About whom she knows next to nothing and hasn't consulted, as far as we know, about her plans to "save" her.  To me, that's Carol in her new persona, the one who's certain she's right about what has to happen and doesn't feel the need to consider much in the way of alternatives.

[queenanne]

Seriously, why aren't conversations being had?

 

That's the definite fault of the writer (though maybe Kirkman stuck her with that dynamic).  It's everyone's least-favorite dynamic; screenwriter convenience.  where all it would take to divert a disaster, is: for two people to be talking to each other.

[TrininisaScorp]

With everything that has happened since Ed was alive, I don't believe Carol has really been able to process her time in that situation. Yeah, Carol is strong, but I personally feel she sees herself as a different person than "Ed's wife".  That has been her coping mechanism. 

 

Damn, Rick.  Damn.  Aside from point blank shooting Pete in his stupid face in front of everyone, he couldn't have handled that more poorly.   

 

IMO, Michonne is quietly the rock of this group.  In my eyes, she is the "go to".  Once again, she has proven why.  Someone had to stop Rick and it, ideally, needed to be someone from CDB's side. 

 

This "he said, she said" with Glenn and the douche guy is really a hot mess. Thanks to that useless Gabriel, Deanne was already not good with our guys.  I'm sad we didn't get Maggie sharing that news with the team. 

 

These "W" people are freaking me out.  I don't want to meet them. 

[catrox14]

I think the W is for Woodbury. IMO it fits what those sick fuckers were doing.

[Dodginblue]

These "W" people are freaking me out.  I don't want to meet them. 

 

I've never read the comics and I don't do spoilers so I don't even really have any informed ideas about what's going on with the branded zombies and the chopped up parts (which I think are humans, yes?  not zombies) and the woman tied to the tree.  I wonder if these are people who've been captured somehow and marked and then turned into zombies and herded somehow?  Anyway, this isn't the place for speculation. So I will say that I wonder why there hasn't been more curiosity about all this among the characters.  Rick and Daryl and Carol saw one at the meet outside the walls and I have the impression that Sasha noticed it when she was looking through her scope before she blew the zombie's head off.  

 

Aaron and Daryl in this latest episode have started to maybe put some things together although they weren't offering up any ideas about what they were seeing.  Other than that it's close, whatever it is, with Daryl's comment about how it just happened.  Which by the way I like the way Daryl and Aaron seem to have developed a great working rapport out there in the woods.  And I think it's good that Daryl's not back in ASZ having to deal with what's happening in Rick's world right now.

 

One of the things I'm going to find interesting as the show goes forward is whether or not the writers can top Terminus as the worst thing that can possibly happen to these characters.  

[Iguessnot]

I'm starting to think ASZ is a big psychological experiment. Or because the walls are there keeping out the monsters, CDBers can no longer compartmentalize their own issues because of the crisis at hand.

 

I have a hard time believing Carol is so invested in Sam's safety when she threatened to tie up to a tree and leave for Walkers. I don't doubt for a minute she meant what she said to him. She killed Lizzie.

 

I think Carol is acting out her own issues with DV and her own inability to leave Ed. She didn't have someone championing for her welfare when she was with Ed.  So she is using Jessie and Rick as her avatars so to speak.

 

I think Rick is working out his Lori issues because he couldn't save her from being zombie chow.

Lizzie killed her sister as an experiment and was going to slaughter Judith for giggles basically. The idiot was playing ring around the rosies with a zombie. Disposing of Lizzie was no different than knifing a walker; she was that much of a danger to everybody.

[tennisgurl]

 

One of the things I'm going to find interesting as the show goes forward is whether or not the writers can top Terminus as the worst thing that can possibly happen to these characters.

Oh, I have faith that the writers can always think of something worse...

 

I mean, its hard to beat hipster cannibals, but we could run into bro slavers or something! 

[catrox14]

Lizzie killed her sister as an experiment and was going to slaughter Judith for giggles basically. The idiot was playing ring around the rosies with a zombie. Disposing of Lizzie was no different than knifing a walker; she was that much of a danger to everybody.

Regardless, Carol still killed a child that was not a zombie. My point is that Carol is ruthless.

[NorthstarATL]

And she's not solving Jessie's problem herself either.  She's getting Rick to do it.    Which the way it's playing out may not actually lead to Jessie being in any better place than she's been in given how Rick chose to handle things.

 

 If I remember correctly, I think we had some idea that she actually did leave Ed, she knew about the domestic abuse shelter near Grady when they went back to Atlanta.  Granted,a shelter isn't a long term solution and since she was with Ed when the ZA happened I guess it means that if she did leave she went back to him.

 

But yes, maybe this is what's happening, Carol's looking for a do-over on her own life pre-ZA and getting it vicariously through Jessie.  About whom she knows next to nothing and hasn't consulted, as far as we know, about her plans to "save" her.  To me, that's Carol in her new persona, the one who's certain she's right about what has to happen and doesn't feel the need to consider much in the way of alternatives.

It's entirely possible that Ed went after Carol or used Sophia to get her back when she did seek shelter. I don't think Carol necessarily trusts the "system" to protect a battering victim, and even less so in this new world, which is probably part of why she's not embracing Deanna or Alexandria. She knows Rick, like herself, will do what inevitably will need doing. Going to Jessie directly would probably do as little good as going to Ed's wife, Carol, might have done back when.

[raven]

LOL, just realized Michonne had on her constable uniform when she clocked Rick; she wasn't wearing it earlier.

 

I enjoy watching Rick ride the crazy train; there's something wrong with me.  Speaking of which, kudos to Deanna, who's a tiny person but has no problem facing down Rick, whether he's calmly advocating murder or waving a gun around with a blood on his face.

 

I think there's some definite moral ambiguity here; show isn't trying to get us to side 100% with Deanna or Rick.  I can see both of their points.  I don't know if we're supposed to REALLY care that much about Jessie/Pete, except for how it's affecting Rick and the questions it brings up (Pete's a doctor, when do you interfere, how do you interfere, who's in charge, etc).   Speaking of Jessie/Pete, so Sam is telling all to Carol, what about the other kid?  Anyone talk to him? 

 

I think Carol's a little on the crazy train herself; the issue is that Melissa MB still wants to portray her as warm & caring and I don't see that, even in her scenes with Sam.   Theres been a disconnect there a while, what the script says and what MMB is playing IMO.

 

For those who say Rick is deliberately endangering his children; I don't agree because he won't voluntarily leave Alexandria.  Glenn is right, they should try to make it work, it's their best set up so far.  Rick just needs time in a padded room for a while, heh.  Not these he's going to get it, I'm sure there's more disaster coming. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by raven

[Irishmaple]

I'm mostly okay with Michonne knocking Rick out.  The man was laying down some serious truth but the source was damaged, his integrity as battered as his face.  Rick needed a time-out and Michonne provided it before things got completely out of hand.  I hope he gets a moment to pull his shit together and take a breath before the next disaster smacks him in the face.  Go hug Judith, Rick.  Or maybe give Carl the 'birds and bees' talk. 

 

I'm completely over Deanna.  She sucks as a leader.  I'm disappointed as hell that she turned a blind eye to drunk Pete.  Leaving aside the abuse of his family, a drunk surgeon is a time bomb.  With people outside the walls gathering supplies, getting building materials and so on, a drunk surgeon is a nightmare.  He needs to be ready all the time.  His life should be lived on-call because he is apparently the only doctor in a high-risk world.  I can't believe she didn't lock him up and detox him whether he liked it or not.  She neglected one of her community's major assets.  I wouldn't trust Pete to clip my nails much less my appendix.  Ignoring the abuse just sickens me.  The fact that Reg or Spencer or the late Aiden and a bunch of guys weren't sent over to have a quiet word with Pete is just gross.  Deanna should have handled that mess before a small child goes looking for a weapon.

 

Sasha's breakdown fascinates me because she's doing something I've advocated: she's culling Walkers before they reach the Alexandria perimeter.  They can't mass against the walls if Sasha keeps the numbers down.  I think she's doing great work, but not taking appropriate care.  I want her to realize she is loved and valuable and needs to keep herself safe.  I loved that Rosita and Michonne went looking for her, and worked through demons of their own while out there with Sasha. 

 

I'll never believe that Morgan is behind the woman-tied-to-a-tree-as-bait atrocity.  Nor would he leave Walkers to roam.  Morgan cleared.  He took out every one he could, just like Sasha is doing.  I really enjoyed how quickly and easily Aaron and Daryl have formed a competent team.  I thought Carl and Enid were adorable, but Rick really needs to give his son a talk!  Nicholas needs to die painfully.  As soon as possible.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Irishmaple

[Dodginblue]

Going to Jessie directly would probably do as little good as going to Ed's wife, Carol, might have done back when.

 

Hey, it took 30 seconds of mumbled conversation from Rick for Jessie to order Pete to leave so I have no doubt that Carol could have been equally as persuasive just as quickly and maybe without the mayhem. And we haven't actually seen Pete leave yet.  Usually what happens in these situations is the wife ends up siding with the husband because she feels sorry for him and just wants everything to calm down, even if it's just short term and accomplishes nothing.

[Tippi Blevins]

When they were listening to Aiden's "Run Mix" CD, it would have been great if someone had said, "He was lucky he didn't get eaten sooner, blaring this loud-ass music wherever he meant." I remember thinking last episode they would be attracting those noise-loving walkers by playing that thumping music.

 

I don't hate Jessie, but I don't really care what happens to the character because I don't feel like the show has put the effort into developing her outside of Rick. Even whiny coward Nicholas has gotten more development, in that he's interacted with more characters and had moments alone. The only time we've seen Jessie alone is in her house for the seconds before Rick came barging in. That brief little bit was the only time I felt like she was a character in her own right and not just a tool to spur the plot. I mean obviously yes, everybody moves the plot in their own ways, but they should still feel like 3 dimensional characters who exist outside of it.

[AngelaHunter]

And she's not solving Jessie's problem herself either.  She's getting Rick to do it.

 

I think Carol is quite unbalanced herself, so maybe she can't see that Rick is really, really crazy and has been for some time.

 

I don't think he's that obsessed with that rather dreary blonde. He just needed a target on which to release the rage he's been feeling for so long and Carol's goading pointed him in the right direction. Not sure what I feel about Michonne knocking him out, although I guess someone had to do something since the crazy was beaming out of his eyes and knows how it would have ended otherwise.

 

In other news, how nice is it that Daryl has a BFF? What's up with those dismembered, tied, ransacked bodies in the woods?

 

And Carl's got a girlfriend! I loved when they were running and Carl was smiling like it was something he thought he'd forgotten how to do. At least he got to drop his burdens for a little while before seeing his father acting like an enraged wild animal. He's making Daryl look positively urbane.  

 

I'm starting to really like Glenn again,now that the "lovey-dovey all the time" mode has been turned to "off".

[LexiconDevilOne]

Well, if they're going around chopping people up and carving Ws onto their foreheads, then they deserved to be kicked out.

 

What is a prepper?

Preppers are self reliant, for any emergency.

Preppers are prepared to feed, shelter, and live their lives without the governments help. In fact, they don't want the governments 'help', as most of them comment on how the government failed those in Hurricanes Katrina, and Sandy.

oh, and for the record,  they are not the insane nutballs you see on TV. At least none I've met in real life are.

Edited March 24, 2015 by LexiconDevilOne

[maystone]

While Carol's "casserole of mourning" was done for show, I believe she really was terribly sorry for Deanna's loss. In the scene, Carol hesitates before starting to write on the card, which I take as "what the hell am I supposed to say." Then she looks at the baby monitor and sees baby Judith. It's just a moment, but I swear that in that moment Carol was connecting with the reality that she and Deanna both lost a child to walkers.

 

As to Carol's response to Jesse, yeah, I think she's projecting like crazy. She did leave Ed, but she went back after spending just one night at the shelter. And he beat her for it. She says to Rick, "If Ed hadn't gotten it at the camp, I wouldn't be here." I think that Carol believes that there is no escape from an abusive husband because she couldn't find the (confidence? courage? faith?) to do it herself. I don't think she's become an unfeeling killer, as much as I think she's really, really lost perspective.

[Dodginblue]

When they were listening to Aiden's "Run Mix" CD, it would have been great if someone had said, "He was lucky he didn't get eaten sooner, blaring this loud-ass music wherever he meant." I remember thinking last episode they would be attracting those noise-loving walkers by playing that thumping music.

 

 

I giggled a itttle at that scene with Deanna playing the mixtape, which I don't think I was supposed to necessarily.  I thought the two men, Reg and Spencer did a great job looking uncomfortable and trying to endure it until one of them finally told her to turn it off.   Actually that whole scene at the house with the three of them, sitting there together but each separately in their own particular version of hell, was well done.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Since they are putting up with all this crap from Pete I could burn the whole place down and murder anyone I wanted (with the exception of Pete of course) when they found out I know how to make my own chocolate!

 

I'm all for putting you in charge. Screw medical care, I need chocolate.

 

My little brain jumbled this all up and I pictured Eugene reading books to Judith. I liked that thought too.

 

The thought of Eugene reading to Judith is both awkward and adorable as hell. I could see him explaining the rhyme scheme and inherent symbolism of Green Eggs and Ham.

 

You know, if we could come up with a theme for a new thread, I would so name it this!

 

 

New name for the dead character thread?

 

I'll never believe that Morgan is behind the woman-tied-to-a-tree-as-bait atrocity.  Nor would he leave Walkers to roam.  Morgan cleared.  He took out every one he could, just like Sasha is doing.

 

 

If it comes out that Morgan is responsible for that, I will officially walk away from this show and not look back. I don't think even post Duane turned scrawling, sarcastic booby-trap laying, Rick-stabbing Morgan would do that. Interesting that you compared Sasha to Morgan. Spot on, I'd say. If Sasha were on her own right now, I bet she would be holed up in an improvised fortress scrawling "Tyreese didn't turn" all over the walls.

[EyesGlazed]

When Michonne clocked Rick in the middle of his rant, I GUFFAWED.  "And I'm not going to stand here and" -  BAM!   So excellent!  And then for the next few hours whenever I thought of that scene I guffawed again!  Fortunately no one else was home to witness me laughing at nothing like a lunatic.

 

This interested me, because I do think she believed Nicholas over Glenn (I think on some level she almost has to, for her own mental stability), but she also made sure she didn't punish Glenn. Instead she tried to seem neutral, with only her private view (watching the interview with Nicholas) suggesting her true belief. 

 

I'm not sure she believed Gabriel without question, but the behavior of the group since that warning hasn't done much to prove him wrong. 

 

this was the first episode where I actually felt like Deanna was a real person, between her grieving over Aiden, her uneasy balance of tolerating Pete's abuse of his wife and children, and her facing off with Rick toe-to-toe more than once, never letting him see her fear or doubt. 

 

There was one little detail here that got to me - when she was watching the interview with Nicholas, and you could hear her other hot son, Spencer, on the tape, saying, "Mom, what are you doing?" It was just so sad, because it showed a broken family and Deanna immersing, deluding herself.

See, I think all of this showed that Deanna is trying to be a fair leader and get to the truth.  Her comments to Nicholas during the interview didn't convey belief to me, rather the opposite.  For instance, she asks him, well if the others wanted to leave you and Aidan, then why did they come back with you?  He says, don't you see, it's all those people's fault and she tells him "you don't know what I see".  My view is that if Rick hadn't starting bugging Deanna about the need to kill PorchDick (at her dead son's graveside, no less!  nice timing!) and generally acting batshit, Deanna would have interviewed Glenn and not jumped to any conclusions about Rick's group.  But now Rick has made a bad situation worse.  

 

That said, I think it would be a hard row to hoe for anyone to like any woman we "just met", practically speaking, as a Ricktator love interest; because considering how long Rick's been single and how long he's refused to consider any other woman or anything amatory, I think we'd have to see "her" as magic, even if there was nobody hoping for Richonne.

Good point.  And maybe it explains all the surprisingly rage-filled comments about Jessie and how boring and stupid she is.  Sheesh, give it a rest.

 

I found what was going on in the woods pretty interesting, too, including with the ones you've mentioned, Aaron and Daryl as well.  I loved the interaction between the women, Sasha, Michonne and Rosita.   First of all, they are so cool, just truly strong beautiful women and if you're going to have any chance of rebuilding a community in the ZA these are the kind of women you need.  Even with Sasha messed up right now. 

Yes, I loved how Michonne and Rosita not only followed and looked out for Sasha and shot zombies with her, but when Sasha started ranting, they just silently listened and looked at her with compassion.  No group hugs, no long therapeutic discussions, no false reassurances.  It was great writing and acting.

 

I too hope that we get more of ASZ next season.  It would be a waste to set up this very interesting situation and then have it all be lost in 4 episodes.

 

 

 

[kikismom]

Regardless, Carol still killed a child that was not a zombie. My point is that Carol is ruthless.

Just for curiousity's sake:

How would you deal with Lizzie in a way that would not be considered ruthless?

[AngelaHunter]

I enjoy watching Rick ride the crazy train; there's something wrong with me. 

 

I like Crazy Rick too.  He's so erratic, teetering on the edge of violence every minute that we don't know what he's going to do and it keeps me on edge.

 

This whole episode had an aura of impending...something or other and it's the first time I really felt I was watching a horror show. Well, except for the ho-hum Jessie as victim of spousal abuse and no one can do a single thing about it because they really need a surgeon who appears to be slightly oiled all day long.

 

The only person who now appears to be totally rational to me is Glenn, and maybe Rosita. Sasha? On the crazy train as well.

[Dodginblue]

I like Crazy Rick too.  He's so erratic, teetering on the edge of violence every minute that we don't know what he's going to do and it keeps me on edge.

 

This whole episode had an aura of impending...something or other and it's the first time I really felt I was watching a horror show. Well, except for the ho-hum Jessie as victim of spousal abuse and no one can do a single thing about it because they really need a surgeon who appears to be slightly oiled all day long.

 

The only person who now appears to be totally rational to me is Glenn, and maybe Rosita. Sasha? On the crazy train as well.

 

I would also include Eugene.   And Judith. 

[gutbuster]

 

The Jessie storyline keeps getting worse and is destroying Rick's character.  I hate it, show.  I see no chemistry between them and if his motivation for the fight was to protect the woman he loves, it was too rushed, there was no build up to make us care.  If the fight was because he's crazy, we should have seen him in other situations that built up the tension, rather than flirting with one woman.  The disaster at the warehouse should have been his breaking point, not a soapy love triangle that makes no sense for the character and drags down the plot.

 

Guess Carl and Judith are not going to get their check ups after all.

 

I'm not sure Deanna bought what Nick was selling.  She may turn a blind eye to the Pete situation but she does seem to understand that her people need help.  She grieves for her son and won't eat tuna casserole (can you blame her? :P ) but I think she knows that the fiasco wasn't because of anything Glenn did.

 

I have to agree with everything you said in the first paragraph. I can't quit this show, I wouldn't even try to, but I'm frustrated with this horrible storyline and as a result I've never disliked Rick as much as I do right now.

 

In regards to the warehouse disaster, I really was expecting more from him in his reaction to what happened to Noah and Tara. When Glen told him how he had to watch Noah get torn apart and the whole awful ordeal, the only part Rick really commented on ,IIRC, was that "these people don't know what they're doing" which, true, but shouldn't he have been pissed? Horrified? Sad? Rick's been pretty consistent in his grief when a member of the group dies, but this was a bit cold. Nicholas and his cowardice killed Noah, but Rick seemed more focused on trying to use what happened as a means to convince Glen that 'see? this is why we need to take this place'. And then Later when Jessie was offering her condolences for Noah and told him that Tara was in good hands with Pete, he cut her off and went right into 'he's hitting you'. I'm sure Tara is happy for your concern Rick. Ass.

 

I really enjoyed Glen's scenes in this episode. I worry about Glen A LOT. I have always loved Glen from the very beginning, so I worry about what Nick having Rick's gun means. I am curious how he managed to get the gun in the first place, though? Wasn't he waiting for CDB at the gate when they arrived? How did he see/know about Rick hiding his gun in the blender?

The debrief video of Nick was curious. At the end of the video, we hear Spencer ask what she's doing (or something like that) and I think she says "I need this for later". We did not see her interview Glen, which doesn't mean it didn't happen. But I think she is planning on having Nick's video as 'evidence' against our group if she needs it, if things get out of hand and she wants to convince people to evict them. Maybe? But then Rick made it super easy for her at the end so she wouldn't even really need it anymore.

 

Can't believe Glenn would side with the ASZholes knowing they purposely leave people behind. I'm glad now the Overthrow Club only includes Daryl, Carol and Rick because Glenn and Michonne are way too comfortable with their sleep number beds and toothbrushes

I don't think Glen is siding with the ASZhats. I think he's just really desperate for this to work. I think Glen is one of the more clear-headed in our group. He knows how precious this opportunity is, but he also sees how delicate it is as well. He truly believes they can't be out there anymore. He needs this place for Maggie, for all of them. That's why I think when he says 'we need to make this work", "we are them", he's not drinking the Kool-Aid, he's saying we need to keep our shit together and find away to work with these people for all of our sakes. If they're weak, we make them strong. As evidenced by his conversation with Nick, Glen doesn't want anyone to die, even the worst of the bunch who leave their own behind. He's had enough death. Glen is a peacemaker at heart. He wants to try to bring the ASZhats up to speed and together with CDB in a non-hostile way.

 

 I'm reading Michonne differently, as well. In this episode, once outside the walls again for the first time, she tells Rosita that "it was like I was asleep in there". I think she's looked uneasy, listless, and unsettled since she got there and she's figuring out why in this episode, when she joined in taking down the walkers.  I think Michonne wants ASZ to work for them, but she also feels like she's sleepwalking. Going through the motions. It didn't seem like her constable job was what she wanted after all. I think the flashbacks were to show that she too still needs 'the fight' to have purpose or to keep going. I thought, at first, that showing her leaving her uniform on the bed when they went to find Sasha was supposed to be symbolic of her leaving it behind, but then they showed her in it at the very end, so i'm not sure what it means. 

 

I was disappointed not to have an appearance by Maggie in this episode, and I'm usually not even a Maggie fan. But last week was such a huge emotional blow for Glen -- it would've been nice if TPTB could've shaved even 30 seconds off the endless Rick/Jessie/Pete ordeal so we could've had one brief conversation between Glen and Maggie, seeing as how we haven't seen them really talk to each other the whole time they've been in Alexandria. I think the biggest frustration for me with this half of the season is not only that they aren't sharing information with one another, as other people have mentioned, but also that we've heard so few private conversations between any of the characters. Has anyone noticed that Rick is losing it? Are they doing anything to help Sasha? Do they feel safe in Alexandria? Are they concerned about Daryl being gone? Is Carol's tuna casserole too dry? I want to know what the characters are thinking! Instead we get more owl drama.

 

YES times infinity. I am one of the ones who likes a lot of talking. I don't think the writers understand that you can still have drama without purposely making characters avoid having conversations that by any stretch of reality we all know they should be having. There is no way Maggie would not have raised the alarm about Gabriel to everyone in CDB within five minutes of overhearing that conversation. Rick not mentioning to at least Daryl and Carol (that we've seen) about the 'W' walkers at Noah's house is absurd. Letting Sasha wander off trying to get herself killed is at the very least being a shitty friend. Allowing Rick to keep wandering Crazytown unchaperoned, too. These situations deserve tough love. Glen and Michonne are both good at talking down Rick. Maggie is going through recent losses that mirror Sasha's. Maggie could talk to her without Sasha thinking she's being patronized. They're so disconnected as a group/family right now, that I can understand why some viewers would feel like they would all abandon each other in an instant if it came down to it.

 

With Carol, sometimes I can't tell anymore whether she's being honest or faking it. Did she bake that casserole because she felt for Deanna's family, or was it just to keep playing along the "normal people" facade? Even though she didn't sign the note, Deanna seemed to know where it was coming from.

 

Also agree with what someone else pointed above, what's Nicholas angle in this? He sucks out there, he's a coward and he knows he can't expect loyalty from other AZShatts while doing runs, so why does he want to get rid of CDB? let them get out and risk their lifes.

Carol said something like "I wanted them to see that'. I think Carol wants CDB to look neighborly, like they give a crap about the people in town. So I think it's mostly facade, but maybe a little bit of both. Carol knows what it is like to lose her child and I'm sure she sympathizes, but she also sees the importance of keeping up the 'your pain is our pain' 'one of us' appearances, as well. Deanna knows it came from CDB because it's not the ASZhats way. Imagine how awkward it would be if one of the ASZhats abandons a guy on a run and then bakes a casserole for his surviving relatives.

 

I think Nick realizes he is a crap human being and a coward, but unlike Eugene, is not willing to admit it. And again, unlike Eugene, perhaps has nothing else valuable to offer the community. I think he's delusional and is telling himself that he's an important part of the community because he brings back supplies even if three or four people are lost along the way. 

 

Yes, you have summed up perfectly what was so offensive to me about last nights conversation between Rick and Jessie. "Would you do this for anyone?" annoyed the crap out of me.  Chick wasn't asking about his having washed her car or brought her breakfast in bed. They are discussing "saving" her from domestic abuse. What kind of self absorbed, narcissistic woman asks such a ridiculous question? Because what, if he says he would do it for anyone you don't want his help? You would only want his help if its for your own special self?  I just pinpointed when  I went from "meh" to  clear dislike of Jessie. That was the moment. 

 

I realize the appeal of this show certainly can't be it's deep meaningful writing, but there is a line that even all action shows cross where the absurdity just takes hold. The entire conversation about a very serious topic was reduced to lines that should have surrounded a prom date, not a life or death ordeal for many women.

 

I couldn't for the life of me fathom why she would ask that question. I can't say it any better than you did. I've read the interpretations that others have suggested but I agree with you. I'll be honest, I enjoy crap romance novels and movies but this particular crap just doesn't fit in this show. This scene felt romance-novelly to me and I hated it in the context of TWD. I don't think Rick or Jessie came out of that looking good. If by having Jessie ask Rick that question they meant for her to mean "are you going to help me after, will you stick around to make sure he doesn't hurt us?" Then HAVE HER SAY THAT. Because of the context we've been given, I think she wanted him to tell her she was special to him, even while she's reminding him that she's married. For the record, I don't think Jessie (or the actress) is ugly or plain or slutty or too 'anything', I just don't think she's an innocent in Rick busting in on his white horse to save the day. I think she invited him into her life.

 

 'Today on "As the World Ends"...' 

 

A couple people mentioned Carol's smile during the Rick-Pete kerfluffle. Wild speculation: What if this was all some elaborate Carol plan to get rid of Rick, get him banished like he banished her? Noticing his attraction to the damsel in distress and his unraveling mind and planting the seed that the husband must be killed? 

 

Thanks for whoever said Andrew Lincoln wanted it to be as dirty and ugly as possible because it certainly was. I had to look away it was so horrible. Sad that Carl had to try to break it up and he pushed him away.

 

I had a feeling last episode when Carol was telling Rick about what was going on with Pete that she seemed very manipulative to me, but I couldn't figure out why she would be doing that. The revenge theory is a good one, especially after I thought she was smirking at Rick humiliating himself and ruining everything at the end. But I really don't want to believe she would do that. Maybe it's just unclear acting choices. I hope maybe she's just happy Pete's getting a taste of his own medicine. If she was up to something, I would wish they'd make it more apparent that something sinister was afoot without revealing what exactly.

 

I saw the quote where AL said he wanted the fight scene to be dirty and humiliating as possible. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. I have never hated Rick in all five seasons of this show, and even though everything he said was sound, I thanked Michonne out loud in my room, by myself, when she shut him the hell up. 

 

I don't really think Glenn or Michonne care about comfort. They just don't see the point of a brutal takeover. They don't trust it. And given that Rick would put Jessie over their welfare and the welfare of even his own children, I think they're totally right.

 

Same here. I think Rick needs to put his children's welfare ahead of his (blood)lust. Judith's much better off in Alexandria than she was starving in the woods. When you look at their body count, I'm not sure CDB's superiority complex is entirely earned.

 

Some of it seems a bit contrived, such as Deanna only hearing Nicholas' side of the story about the run, and the Rick/Pete situation spiraling out of control when it could be sorted out other ways.

 

 

I felt this way as well. Rick's behavior is ridiculous. I appreciate that he at least went to Deanna first, and to Jessie. But I don't think he should have brought up killing Pete to Deanna at all. Stealth and subtlety is not his strong suit. I liked that he had the presence of mind to correct himself from "I'll kill him" to "We'll kill him" like it would somehow sound less insane to a woman who has survived on cocktail parties and good intentions for the past two years. It seems like he's trying to work with these people but throws a tantrum when they don't want to do things his way. In his defense, though, it hasn't really seemed apparent that Deanna or the ASZhats want to change how they're doing things, so why bring CDB in for their road knowledge and experience in the first place if you aren't going to use it?

 

I don't like Rick all of a sudden being the type of guy that would jeopardize having this relative Utopia for his kids so recklessly. Couldn't he have asked Jessie if she had friends she could move in with, people who would look out for her if she left Pete? She obviously has him and Carol, but she must have friends. Investigate! Maybe Pete's only unmanageable when he's drunk. Rick could have suggested to Deanna not having alcohol readily available in town, stop bringing it in and make it a law for safety's sake and to force Pete to be sober. I understand why, in his Crazy Mind Palace, that he jumped to the worst that she could die tomorrow at Pete's hands. Rick always thought he would have more time to resolve things with Lori and he continues to be haunted by that. However, realistically, Jessie has made it this long pre-ZA to now and she's still in one piece. It would've been worth the effort to handle things more delicately so as not to potentially harm your family's own security in the process, not to mention hers. You're exactly right that he put Jessie's needs over his own, Carl's, Judith's, everyone's. Which is so not Rick, it is awful to watch. This is the worst.

 

All this Jessie storyline has told me is that Rick has not come to terms in a healthy way with Lori's death at all, and he is nowhere near equipped to handle a relationship with or even caring about a woman romantically. Right now he seems like the type who would punch a guy for looking at her funny. Not really boyfriend material. But awesome without the romance crap tainting it. When Rick did his "Keep walking (or I'll kill you)" murder face at Pete, I couldn't help but love it. But I was annoyed by the context.

 

I've been wondering - why did Sam ask Carol for the gun? He can sneak in and steal chocolate, which is stored right next to the guns, but he can't steal a gun for himself? He could've stolen the gun to protect his mom in 'self-defense' and gotten rid of his dad himself. Then we could've avoided that stupid scene with Pete conveniently walking in during Rick's rescue mission and all it led to. And what the hell, Ron? We saw him briefly when Carol and Rick were being the creepiest neighbors on the planet spying on them. Ron obviously has to know what's going on and being older would be in a better position, potentially, to help his mom, but he's barely there. I wonder how Carl would advise Ron or Sam in handling the situation if Carl know what was going on.

 

I found it an interesting coincidence that the girl D'nA found tied to the tree suffered the exact fate that Carol promised to unleash on Sam if he blabbed about her gun heist. Daryl said it happened recently. I wonder if it is going to be significant who that girl was.

 

I admit I liked the Carl and Enid scenes for the most part. When she started going Lori Macbeth and whispering in Carl's hair I thought that was oddly 'mature' of her. She seemed like she was 'seducing' him in a teenagery sort of way. But I really like the idea of a young girl who can survive in this world and be a counterpart for Carl, even as buddies.  And, I liked the part where Carl touches her hand. I thought that tiny moment on Carl's part, was sweeter and more authentic than any of the Rick/Jessie stuff they've been showing us. Every kid Carl has know since he was 10 is basically dead.  I liked to see him reach out to her, so I hope she's not evil, even though it does seem she is up to something. 

 

I thought the slo-mo run through the woods was to show us that this is what the world is like for kids now. Running and playing in the woods like kids have always done, even now with flesh eating corpses at every turn. Because they are young and they grew up in this world, they fit into it more than the adults do. Contrary to what Enid said, I think it kind of is their world, more so than it is for the adults anyway.

Edited March 24, 2015 by gutbuster

[peach]

I don't think Carol meant that threat to Sam at all.  She was just trying to scare him silent.  She wasn't expecting him to attach himself to her.  It reminds me of that movie About A Boy.   Watch out, Sam, or I'll tie you to a tree so you're torn apart by walkers.  Sam:  Can we make cookies?

 

Now she's trying to protect him, however you feel about her methodology.  Obviously, she doesn't want to murder him.

[missy jo]

Perhaps if Rick told Deanna that this very group had set up a lovely community themselves (with children, elderly, farming, a doctor, a veterinarian, and government) in the prison but that on three separate occasions they were attacked by a human enemy.  Two of those times by someone who had been shown mercy and was "exiled" only to come back and kill loved ones.  Or about the community they just left of people who created a sanctuary that was then attacked by sadistic humans, forcing the original inhabitants, driven mad by despair, to become cannibals who hunted humans themselves.  Perhaps with this five minute conversation he could have explained how, while the town is beautiful, they have only been lucky so far and that they should prepare for the probability that dangerous unfriendlies might try to hurt them.

 

 

Co-sign your entire post, timetoread! From the value of having the doctor, to if CDB doesn't like Alexandria, they can just leave.

 

The failure to share basic information seems like such a plot contrivance, although come to think of it, those stories should be in the intake video interviews. Maybe that's why Deanna's being *much* more understanding than I would be!

[NorthstarATL]

Hey, it took 30 seconds of mumbled conversation from Rick for Jessie to order Pete to leave so I have no doubt that Carol could have been equally as persuasive just as quickly and maybe without the mayhem. And we haven't actually seen Pete leave yet.  Usually what happens in these situations is the wife ends up siding with the husband because she feels sorry for him and just wants everything to calm down, even if it's just short term and accomplishes nothing.

I was writing quickly, so I wasn't as coherent in my post as I had meant to be. I was referring to Carol  as Ed's wife, Carol in order to differentiate who she was before the ZA from who she is now. I think THAT Carol would have been as difficult to extricate from her situation from Carol's present perspective as she might assume Jessie to be, and therefore she went a more reliable route.

[catrox14]

Just for curiousity's sake:

How would you deal with Lizzie in a way that would not be considered ruthless?

Lock her up. Sedate her. I'm not saying I disagreed with carols solution. I'm saying if she could be that ruthless with Lizzie, scaring Sam and possibly doing what she said seems not that far of a reach.

[peach]

Lock her up. Sedate her. I'm not saying I disagreed with carols solution. I'm saying if she could be that ruthless with Lizzie, scaring Sam and possibly doing what she said seems not that far of a reach.

 

Lizzie was "put down" as painlessly as Carol could possibly do it, without Lizzie even knowing what was happening.  That is nothing like purposely physically and psychologically torturing someone like what she threatened Sam with so he would keep his mouth shut. 

[Foose]

Could Rick be playing the long con, a plot that he and Carol have cooked up between them?  His unusual behavior in this episode, the selective editing around his conversations with Carol, his carefully deliberate hostility to Pete ("keep walking"), his insistent pursuit of Jessie and declaration that he's only going out on a limb for her alone, could all be interpreted as a carefully staged setup to the climax - a hammily histrionic performance that seems calculated to provoke the community's backlash.  Maybe he and Carol want him to be dramatically exiled, so he can get outside the walls and, as a notorious outcast from Alexandria, have the street cred to ingratiate himself with the Wolves, or whoever's lurking, and find out their plans.

[AngelaHunter]

"Would you do this for anyone?" annoyed the crap out of me.  Chick wasn't asking about his having washed her car or brought her breakfast in bed. They are discussing "saving" her from domestic abuse. What kind of self absorbed, narcissistic woman asks such a ridiculous question?

 

Maybe I'm dead wrong but perhaps she's one of those women who cannot be without a man - no matter how marginal he may be -  for one minute and before she gives Dr. Drunky the boot she needed to know if she had a backup waiting in the wings?

[Iguessnot]

They were on the way to Terminus although they were taking a nice breather at the Grove. They are no institutions for the criminally insane nor any neighbor pharmacists to sedate her. I think the conversation about the show is hindered to demand remedies that aren't available, like fussing at Lori for not keeping up with her prenatal regimen.

 

In a similar vein, someone upthread mentioned that all Jessie needed to do was move, then BAM, everything's solved. First all I don't think being in a small isolated village with your abuser is safer. What's to stop him from going to her new place? We don't know how violent he is, but unless others in the community are willing to protect her, she is still facing danger. This is the ZA. For the soft Aszhats, leaving the safe walls is like the movie Papillon. The escape would easily kill them. I don't think Jessie is as stupid as Abraham's wife and kids who barely made it past the side of the building.

 

Anyway the abuse story seems a bit cartoonish, especially with the doc always liquored up and its two years into the ZA. For all of her screen time, Jessie STILL has not made any impression on me.   

[Andromeda]

Hated the Jessie/Pete crap storyline.  Hated Rick basically declaring his intentions to her.  Claimed!  Hated the fight....couldn't help but being horrified that they broke the window,  windows are important in the ZA if for no other reason than there's no glass repair guy to call.  

 

Hate, with a passion that Daryl is out there with Aaron clueless about the W's that were also in Richmond.  Are the Aszhats clueless that the bodies Sasha is stacking up have the W's on their heads.  This is important material folks, please discuss, have a damn meeting....SOMETHING!

I was thinking about the glass and mourning it! I was wondering if there was a window they could take from another, partly destroyed house. I also wonder if/when they'll learn to make ammunition so I don't cringe every time one of them goes on a shooting rampage. Limited resources, people!

I also still don't have a sense how big this community is. What's the population, before CBD arrived? Are they in a majority, or highly outnumbered? We've never seen a town meeting, so we can't do even an estimated head count.

Why aren't they discussing the w's on the foreheads?

Reminds me of LOST, where characters didn't discuss important things or share information. OMG, frustrating! Edited March 24, 2015 by Andromeda

[Dodginblue]

Maybe I'm dead wrong but perhaps she's one of those women who cannot be without a man - no matter how marginal he may be -  for one minute and before she gives Dr. Drunky the boot she needed to know if she had a backup waiting in the wings?

 

I thought the whole conversation was so nonsensical that it's hard to know what her motives were.   This  story line has been so thinly (and poorly) written that I really hope the show learns something from it.   They shouldn't use domestic abuse as a plot mover.  It's a really difficult area and not one that can be distilled quickly in a couple of scenes that, by the way, are also supposed to be about something else as well, Rick's mental state, Carol's motives, Deanna's attitude, etc.  

 

I don't get why these two would think they'd be good for each other at all.  Rick comes off as unhinged and Jessie seems to have emotional issues as well.  It's not like eliminating the batterer solves all the victim's problems.  In the real world anyway.  Which this isn't, I know.     

[Dodginblue]

I was writing quickly, so I wasn't as coherent in my post as I had meant to be. I was referring to Carol  as Ed's wife, Carol in order to differentiate who she was before the ZA from who she is now. I think THAT Carol would have been as difficult to extricate from her situation from Carol's present perspective as she might assume Jessie to be, and therefore she went a more reliable route.

 

I got what you meant.  I kind of twisted it around to make the point about how ridiculous I thought the scene in the house with Rick and Jessie was and even more so when Pete came stumbling into the mix.  And also to point out that the route Carol decided to go ended up with Rick acting like a nut in front of everybody.  

[tennisgurl]

Maybe I am just kind of twisted, but if Dr. Pete is running around beating his wife and possibly son, and just being a drunken asshole, but you cant get rid of him, why don't they just threaten to break his kneecaps or something? Then he would have a hell of a hard time attacking Jessie, but he would still be able to do surgery. Yeah, maybe she has her battered woman issues, but the rest of these assholes don't. Its brutal, but desperate times and all that. Why are they acting like the only options are

 

A. Death/exile

B. Let him do whatever the hell he wants. 

 

They do have guns after all. Just because they're not out all the time, does not mean they don't exist anymore. This all seems really manageable if you take two seconds to go over options. They really have no rules here, and no punishments besides banishment? How has this "civilization" gone on this long? Even with just petty fights or thefts! 

[Watcher0363]

Jessie's actions and words in this episode. Were spot on, to spot on. It was like she was paraphrasing a conversation I had a few years ago. I do know if the writers got it right by accident or from some personal experience, but they got it right. Until you see a beautiful woman from a good family, decide to leave her abusive boyfriend for a man who has two restraining orders against him from other women. Just because he says he will protect her from her abusive boyfriend. You will never get that Jessie scene. For everyone who found that scene super strange and unbelievable, thank God that you do.

[peach]

I found it unbelievable that Rick said he wouldn't do this for anyone else, because four and a half seasons say otherwise.  But I'm in the camp of totally understanding why SHE would go for Rick and his help. 

[Watcher0363]

I found it unbelievable that Rick said he wouldn't do this for anyone else, because four and a half seasons say otherwise.  But I'm in the camp of totally understanding why SHE would go for Rick and his help. 

It was not about what Rick would or would not do. It was about what she needed to hear, to allow her to have a reason to leave. But Rick was a cop, so he knows she will probably go back to him. They always do, they always do.

[AndySmith]

They seem to calculate these 2-dimensional moments for Michonne that feel like nothing more than bait to make everyone say " Damn, Michonne was badass!"

 

I saw it as more Michonne just didn't want the situation to escalate more than it already had, and if it did escalate, it wouldn't be beneficial for anyone.

 

I'm starting to think ASZ is a big psychological experiment

 

If they find any mysterious hatches, I am definitely checking out for good...

 

Maybe he and Carol want him to be dramatically exiled, so he can get outside the walls and, as a notorious outcast from Alexandria, have the street cred to ingratiate himself with the Wolves, or whoever's lurking, and find out their plans.

 

These idiots barely seem to acknolwedge that there are zombies walking around with Ws in their foreheads, I doubt they've even given a second thought to the Wolves. But I guess that is for the speculation thread...

 

It's too bad pride seems to be one of the factors keeping Rick's group and the ASZ people from coming together as a cohesive group.

[CletusMusashi]

It would be an interesting twist if Pete is NOT bio-dad.

Did Shane ever make a run to Virginia?

[catrox14]

Jessie's actions and words in this episode. Were spot on, to spot on. It was like she was paraphrasing a conversation I had a few years ago. I do know if the writers got it right by accident or from some personal experience, but they got it right. Until you see a beautiful woman from a good family, decide to leave her abusive boyfriend for a man who has two restraining orders against him from other women. Just because he says he will protect her from her abusive boyfriend. You will never get that Jessie scene. For everyone who found that scene super strange and unbelievable, thank God that you do.

 

TMI time, as a DV survivor myself, I really couldn't relate to anything but Jessie saying Pete had been to counseling before and that Rick would make things worse. However, they totally lost me with Jessie asking 'would you do this for just anyone'.  And Rick trying to help her =/= Rick being a controlling abusive man himself.  I think DV is far too complicated and different for each person to try and shove it in the ZA especially in this show.  It actually offends me to a degree because IMO they really didn't get it right.  But agree to disagree :)

Edited March 24, 2015 by catrox14

[paigow]

Did Shane ever make a run to Virginia?

Pre ZA Shane might have dusted crops from Florida to Cape Cod, so Jessie is definitely a geographical candidate. That would make Judith & Sam half - siblings! 

[CletusMusashi]

And Enid too!

[slf]

I call bullshit on Deanna's plan w/r/t Pete. The abuse has apparently been going on for some time and she's done nothing so far. How far does it have to go for Deanna to exile him? He could kill Jessie or Sam, even unintentionally. Why believe her rather than assume she's just trying to appease Rick since he's discovered the abuse and is now pressing the issue? Jessie and Sam have been 'her' people for years, presumably; but now, now that Rick's gotten in her face about it, she's going to resolve the issue? Sure, mmhmm, okay.

I get that it's a tough situation- he's their only doctor. But for me it always comes back to: the people most okay with this kind of setup, like at Grady, aren't the people getting the short end of the stick. Privileged people are always okay with other people suffering cruelly, couching it as some kind of 'morally complex sacrifice for the greater good' isn't new either. I don't believe Deanna would sign up for getting beaten daily in exchange for a doctor. I don't. I think she'd want to come up with another solution. I think this is just the path of least resistance coupled with her and the others wanting to see themselves a certain way. In their minds, turning a blind eye doesn't reflect on them; the only bad person here is Pete. If they have to do something, well, their options are limited and they might have to get their hands dirty and make sacrifices. They might have to, themselves, do things they dislike. They want the illusion.

W/r/t Rick's new, uh, outlook...personally, I think this has been building since the end of season two when he had to kill Shane (a living man he knew and cared for). IIRC, he kind of exploded and while he was right he was also scaring the hell out of people.

[NurseGiGi]

They were on the way to Terminus although they were taking a nice breather at the Grove. They are no institutions for the criminally insane nor any neighbor pharmacists to sedate her. I think the conversation about the show is hindered to demand remedies that aren't available, like fussing at Lori for not keeping up with her prenatal regimen.

 

In a similar vein, someone upthread mentioned that all Jessie needed to do was move, then BAM, everything's solved. First all I don't think being in a small isolated village with your abuser is safer. What's to stop him from going to her new place? We don't know how violent he is, but unless others in the community are willing to protect her, she is still facing danger. This is the ZA. For the soft Aszhats, leaving the safe walls is like the movie Papillon. The escape would easily kill them. I don't think Jessie is as stupid as Abraham's wife and kids who barely made it past the side of the building.

 

Anyway the abuse story seems a bit cartoonish, especially with the doc always liquored up and its two years into the ZA. For all of her screen time, Jessie STILL has not made any impression on me.   

I agree with everything you said here except possibly the Jessie thing because my problem is that they haven't taken the time to make her a 3 dimensional character instead of an under developed plot point to achieve whatever their end result is going to be.  And other posters have given numerous examples that don't include the stupid way Rick chose to handle the issue and his actions just seem so OOC.  My problem, as always, is with the writing.

 

The DV plot could have be handled so much better if given the time to be properly set up and developed.  I think the show definitely suffers because they choose to have 2 mini seasons and as a result they have to cram in to much too soon.

 

I think the Pete problem could be simply handled.  Just don't bring back liquor on the runs.  He's not going to go get it himself.  Are they supplying him with it to keep him happy?  They certainly aren't doing their group any favors by having a drunken physician around.  But then that would be too easy and wouldn't lay the groundwork for the dramatic Pete/Rick encounter.

[Nashville]

Okay, 5+ pages = way too many quotes to post.  :)

 

Just to discuss a few immediate points:

• Deanna spurned the casserole for the same reason she burned the note - she saw both as empty platitudes, and also possibly attempts at manipulation.  Plus, she just found out about an hour ago her son got ripped into Walker Chow, so she's probably not at her most empathetic right now.
• On an intellectual level, I don't think Deanna buys Nick's story for a second; on an emotional level, however, she may grab it and hang on rather than face the possibility her son died as a result of his own idiocy.  I had some hope when she said to NickTheDick she was withholding judgment until her "investigation" was complete; the fact we've seen no sign she's even spoken to Glenn concerns me, though.  As a politician, there's also the possibility Deanna will choose to exploit Nick's bullshit spin if it suits her own ends, even if she knows it isn't the truth.
• Unlike the Governor and Gareth, both Dawn and Deanna fall into a different niche: evil with a small "e".  In Deanna's case, it's her bureaucratic belief that The System is the paramount definition of good vs. evil, with good being defined as All Things Which Support The System.  No big surprise there, as she's The System's chief comptroller.  Flip side of that is, all expressions of individual initiative which do not fall within The System's narrowly defined parameters are evil by definition.
• Yeah, Rick's eggs are cracking on the edge of the skillet a mite - but not without justification.  Rick's own personal manifestation of PTSD has been pretty obvious:  ASZ has the potential to be the haven for which CDB has been searching, but it's jeopardized daily by the ineptitude of the people running it.  That, plus their imitations of life-as-normal-before-the-ZA also include some of the worst aspects of Old Normal - overlooking individuals' peril for the sake of not rocking the boat; faux democracy covering up a very real caste system, not making SOME sort of preparation for other-than-supremely-optimal circumstances, etc.  And when Rick attempts to correct ANY of these deficiencies, he's blocked by the status quo.  Small wonder his cheese has slid off his cracker some.
• Rick will constantly fail with Deanna for one simple reason - she's a politician and he's not.  To Rick, "plain truth" is a recognition of reality; to Deanna, it's whatever rhetoric serves her at the moment.  Neither truly understands the other - and since Deanna's in the driver's seat, all Rick's attempts to communicate reality to Deanna are somewhat screwed from the start.  Rick's only option is to try spinning his ideas in a way which fits Deanna's Grand Plan; unfortunately, Rick lacks sufficient political skill to do so - hence the boiling-over frustration.

[kj4ever]

I loved this episode, how everything that's been building is coming together. The one thing I didn't like was Michonne clicking Rick at the end. They seem to calculate these 2-dimensional moments for Michonne that feel like nothing more than bait to make everyone say " Damn, Michonne was badass!"

It's like they use her as an icon or a cardboard cutout to insert into scenes for the sole purpose of eliciting that reaction, whether or not it makes sense in the scene. Robed, cloaked Michonne with her two walkers on chains, Michonne posing with her katana. Visual shorthand moments that don't really mean anything. They're almost like throw-away comic book panels. Michonne should be given more layers than being a rubber stamp for "this scene is meant to be badass".

I wonder if the walkers are amassing because of Sasha. Yes, she has a silencer, but there is still some noise. And there's lots of noise when you shoot picture frames. Add in Michonne's gun this episode and all the other noises they've all been making outside the walls...

We know that Walkers gather when they smell and hear.  They've all been shooting guns off (yes, with a silencer) but also traipsing about the woods making noise.  When you get more and more people gathered together the more of them come, just like Daryl told Carol at the beginning of season 4.

 

So what's the deal with Enid and Carl hiding in the tree trunk from a herd of walkers? One entrance. One EXIT. Carl has to know better. Nothing like acting like an idiot over a female

Just like dear old dad.

And it's been implied (Ron keeping his hand possessively on Enid's shoulder while he introduces her to Carl and leave it there) is "with" Enid so dear lord we are working on a love four square.  

 

https://i.imgur.com/2JgOGdg.png

Yep, I know they were on the Walkers attacking the car but I wonder if they had time in such a stressful situation to go "Oh shit they all have a "W" on their forehead?"

 

She took out her rage on Ed after he became zombie chow. She grew to be a stronger person.  But IMO she didn't really solve the Ed problem herself. By either leaving him or having him prosecuted or even killing him herself. This is her life in her face again.

Hey even camp dinner bell knew he was beating the crap out of Carol and they said as much.  Nothing was done until Shane needed an outlet for his anger.  Hmmm...coincidence?

 

Maybe I'm dead wrong but perhaps she's one of those women who cannot be without a man - no matter how marginal he may be -  for one minute and before she gives Dr. Drunky the boot she needed to know if she had a backup waiting in the wings?

I think I'd want to know that I had back up for myself and my two children if I had been living in a community where people didn't seem to mind that my hubby was beating the crap out of me because he was a doctor.  It can be scary enough in the real world where all you get is a piece of paper telling them to stay away.  Imagine if you were in a world where you knew damn well they would take his side if he did something awful because he was a doctor?

Edited March 24, 2015 by kj4ever

[pasdetrois]

I laughed very hard when Daryl and Aaron were creeping in the woods...Daryl all mangy and bristling with his muscles and monstrous crossbow, and then Aaron behind him trying to look tough, all clean Lands End and pointing the tiny little gun.

 

As I posted last week, I think Maggie, Glenn and Michonne are the new moral centers for our group. Glenn or Maggie could emerge as the new Rick. Michonne has been portrayed as less a leader and more of a power lieutenant. And I can see Rick being pulled back from the brink of utter madness by his children.

 

Carl looks so much like Lori.