S05.E15: Try

[nachomama]

They always have to give Rick an epic fisticuffs session towards the end of the season. Fight with the governor that he was losing and Coral had to watch over him for those few days. Biting somebody's throat out, etc. I don't think Pete would have fought that well, but that's beside the point. They gotta let you know that Shane, Governor, Rick and Darryl are animals at their core, remind you that a gun isn't good enough. Anyone armed can have power, this is about whose will is bigger. Or whose crazier and I love Michonne. :D She alwasy does the right thing.

[kikismom]

 

I'm totally bored with Sasha.  She needs to go.  I haven't been able to stand her from the start so I'm not digging so much time devoted to her.  At least it gave us an awesome scene with Michonne.

 

I agreed with the rest of your post, but this part is dicey for me...I like Sasha, I am bored with the hammering of have you noticed she is having a breakdown? I think the writers need her PTSD to explode in the finale, so they are just keeping it in idle. They realized they had to show it from the point Tyreese died, but wanted to save the big fracture for the last episode. So now we have repeated scenes of her doing the same thing.  That could be more interesting but it isn't.

I, too, had to do a thorough mental evaluation of "heliumgate".  "Helium?  Why the hell do they have helium?  If there was a tank or two around at the beginning, surely they'd be gone by now.  Did someone actually bring back helium on a run?  Maybe to decorate for the Friday Night Dance Party?  That's some terrible prioritizing..."  

If you watch the garage scene, there is a huge tank by the wall. I do not know that it is helium. Possibly Dr. Drunky uses the garage for surgery and that is the oxygen/nitrous oxide mix. After all, they use a garage for school and church, why not?

But sculptors and metalworkers use tanks in their work.

 

That's sure how the writers are setting it up. They flat out had Rick say he wouldn't do this for anyone else. Which is such utter fucking bullshit.

 

I think it is just meant to be part of Rick's disturbed attempt to re-create his family.

 

Remember that when he is talking to Jessie at the party, he says that Judith and Carl are the only thing that got him through this.

 

I have wondered before (on this forum) if it was Lori or Carl who was left back at the farm instead of Andrea, would Rick have still said, they're dead or they're just gone and order no one to go back for them.

 

And wasn't it Shane who first said (to Lori) that he would let all these other people go just to keep her and Carl alive.

 

I don't think he is thinking as he did all those times that --yes!--he truly did save other people.

 

He is thinking completely differently and IMO he is trying to re-wind and re-do the first time and how he was then...thinking now that he should have Shane's attitude and he wouldn't have made the mistakes he made.

[RainOnToosdays]

I liked Sam running to Carol and clinging to her during the fight but I was surprised that he did not go to his mother even after she was knocked back by Pete.  

 

When everyone came running when Glen and Aidan got into their dust-up, Daryl held Nicholas down and wanted to beat on him but Rick pulled him off and made him stand-down. Daryl was ticked but he and Rick were OK with each other again that evening, 

Michonne stood over Aidan, daring him to get back up. Then this ep ended with her standing over Rick, with that "I f'ing dare anybody to do anything" look in her eyes. I thought her stance over Rick was protective, He's our problem and we take care of of own; you all aren't going to touch him.  Part of Rick's rant was saying that "we know what to do and we just do it".  Michonne knew what needed to be done and did it. I think Rick will understand when he comes to. 

[Pete Martell]

I, on the other hand, thought it was exactly the sort of thing a teenage-dumb girl (or guy) would say and think she was being so insightful and profound.  I heard that and thought, "Dear God, Carl, don't fall in with that line of bullshit because you think she's cute."  

 

I guess I didn't see Enid that way (at least up to this point). That seemed like something that is at home on a tumblr dashboard. 

[NorthstarATL]

I liked Sam running to Carol and clinging to her during the fight but I was surprised that he did not go to his mother even after she was knocked back by Pete.  

Probably he has some history with his mother getting knocked around by Pete, and running to her NOT being a safe thing to do. He's as aware as anyone that Carol is the most dengerous person in town.

[Pete Martell]

I agreed with the rest of your post, but this part is dicey for me...I like Sasha, I am bored with the hammering of have you noticed she is having a breakdown? I think the writers need her PTSD to explode in the finale, so they are just keeping it in idle. They realized they had to show it from the point Tyreese died, but wanted to save the big fracture for the last episode. So now we have repeated scenes of her doing the same thing.  That could be more interesting but it isn't.

 

It's repetitive and clumsy, but the reason it works for me, beyond Sonequa's performance, is because it's being used as a mirror for many of the group. There's always a lot of talk in fandom, especially at review comments sections, about "pointless" or "meaningless characters" who "should just die," like Sasha, Rosita, Tara, among others. I saw that a lot with this episode. But at this point, these characters are what help keep me interested, because through them I get to see the various reactions and the impact on the group through so many changes. 

 

I loved the whole scene where Michonne was triggered (and I don't know if I've ever seen a better execution on a TV show recently of a scene of someone being triggered) by what Sasha was doing. It reminded her of a part of herself she was trying to suppress, and that she needed to deal with. Then you had Rosita joining in, to help, and likely to struggle with some of her own demons. 

 

This could have been filmed as a condescending "bad ass chicks!!!" moment, but was instead about unstable people trying (and in Sasha's case failing) to cope. 

 

Everything has been so disjointed since they got to Alexandria, the stories feel increasingly fragmented, so it's mostly these characters who are keeping any kind of group feeling going, and keep me interested in watching.

[paigow]

 

While I'm complaining, I really thought those scenes were far less compelling than they should have been, between the slo-mo run (hated that, hated it) and the cheesy emo dialogue. If they'd gone on a bit longer I think they would have both become goths....

Or sparkly vampires...

[tv echo]

IIRC, Deanna claims to be good at reading people.  She knew her son needed help (thanking Glenn), so why doesn't she know or even suspect that Nicholas is a lying coward?  And why believe FPP without question? 

 

Deanna is a hypocrite.  "We don't kill people."  When people are as soft and ignorant as the ASZhats, banishment is the same as death.  She just doesn't have to see them die and can pat herself on the back for being so civilized.  It's also short-sighted, as those who've been exiled can find others out there and lead them straight back to attack Alexandria.

 

Deanna and her ASZhats are terminally stupid.  From locking up all the guns in a storage unit, to having outside supports on the walls (that people can climb up), to not posting a 24-hour sentry in the tower, they are terminally stupid.  They've been lucky so far.  But it was just a matter of time before they were discovered and attacked by a Claimed-type gang of humans, likely with the help of an exiled ex-ASZhat.  Then while the attackers were swarming over the walls, the ASZhats would have to get that one lady with the key to unlock the storage unit and distribute guns and then run back out to the perimeters to defend.  Stupid, stupid, for the adults not to carry weapons on them at all times -- or at least lock them up in their individual homes.

 

Rick may be crazy and acting like an idiot over Jessie, but at least he's not that stupid.

 

I hope the ASZhats all get eaten, plus FPP.  At this point, I'm rooting for Rick, Darryl, Michonne, Carol, Glenn/Maggie and Carl (plus maybe Judith).

Edited March 24, 2015 by tv echo

[Samx]

I am often guilty of letting my personal feelings for the plot's developments to influence what I think of the show's actual quality. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean TPTB are ruining the show. Having now digested this ep, I can say that while I think the ASZ storyline has been generally well done (it's rife with great conflict) I think the Rick/Jessie/abuse storyline is the weak link. I think Rick descending into madness is fine but I don't see how the "romance" with Jessie serves ANYTHING. I think normally Rick would care if it was any woman being beaten by her husband, not just Jessie, and I hate that the writers used that point to shoehorn in Rick's "feelings" for Jessie. 

 

It's also an interesting feeling as a viewer to first be on Rick's side and feel like Deanna is the "bad guy" but then you stop to think about it and you realize Deanna's not being evil when she thinks that executing Pete is a bridge too far. She's right in that respect. Don't love her pragmatism re Pete's doctor skills and ignoring Jessie's abuse but you can't just go around killing people willy nilly. 

 

Michonne was right to knock Rick out. It was for his own safety and the safety of CDB. I don't see it as Michonne trying to undermine Rick or her becoming the "new Andrea" by wanting ASZ to work. There was no telling what Rick would do to ANY of them at that point. I wonder if Daryl had been there, would he have done the same? I know he would've tried to reel Rick in but would he have knocked him out? Probably. Glenn? Maybe, if he could. I think Rick is a risk to both CDB and ASZhats - he needs help.

[kikismom]

I'm not putting all the blame on Rick for that fight, some of it also goes to her husband, but it was a situation that was going to lead up to a fight, and Rick must have known that. I think on some level he wanted it.

I think his brain is partly reacting to reality and partly perceiving him as Shane taking "his wife away" from him.

 

Does anyone else remember the night they sneaked in Woodbury and Rick hallucinated that the man coming at him was Shane ?

 

II also hated the line Enid had to Carl - "it's their world and we're living in it."

 

While I'm complaining, I really thought those scenes were far less compelling than they should have been, between the slo-mo run (hated that, hated it) and the cheesy emo dialogue. If they'd gone on a bit longer I think they would have both become goths. 

I think they both would have gone back to the Eighties. I think the line about their world and we're living in it is not something anyone Enid's age would say. It's so outdated.

Not as much as the slo-mo run.

I was afraid when they got in the tree that the camera would cut away to a room at night with a gauzy curtain blowing and something by Spandau Ballet in the background.

[Pete Martell]

I think they both would have gone back to the Eighties. I think the line about their world and we're living in it is not something anyone Enid's age would say. It's so outdated.

Not as much as the slo-mo run.

I was afraid when they got in the tree that the camera would cut away to a room at night with a gauzy curtain blowing and something by Spandau Ballet in the background.

 

If they'd recreated the "Hounds of Love" video this would have been my favorite episode ever.

[kikismom]

I, on the other hand, thought it was exactly the sort of thing a teenage-dumb girl (or guy) would say and think she was being so insightful and profound.  I heard that and thought, "Dear God, Carl, don't fall in with that line of bullshit because you think she's cute."  

Can anyone be sure if this is good or Carl is making a huge mistake? I like the idea of Carl having his first love, and Gale seemed to imply that it would work.

But I just didn't understand the scene where Carl saw her go over a wall. She looks in every direction but doesn't notice this face at the window? Wasn't Rick's house the one the teens spent their time with their private hideout? I would think she'd have looked at the house...unless she wanted to be seen by Carl.

So...did she lure him? Should we be worried or is it safe to allow him a crush?

[KarateKate]

I, too, had to do a thorough mental evaluation of "heliumgate".  "Helium?  Why the hell do they have helium?  If there was a tank or two around at the beginning, surely they'd be gone by now.  Did someone actually bring back helium on a run?  Maybe to decorate for the Friday Night Dance Party?  That's some terrible prioritizing..."  

[snip]

I was remotely kvetching along with you. "Helium? They brought back a party tank? But they couldn't bring Mrs. Needermyer a pasta maker?? "

[ghoulina]

I also hated the line Enid had to Carl - "it's their world and we're living in it." That's so pat and so cute. It's a greeting card line, not what someone like Enid would have said.

 

Ugh, yes. That was awful. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head. 

 

Does anyone know who wrote this episode? Because usually when I hate the writing so badly it's Kirkman. LOL

[Pete Martell]

Ugh, yes. That was awful. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head. 

 

Does anyone know who wrote this episode? Because usually when I hate the writing so badly it's Kirkman. LOL

 

Angela Kang. It makes sense now, as she's written a number of episodes I found choppy or poorly explained ("Coda") or where the idea was so much better than the execution ("Four Walls And A Roof").

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1764891/

[chlban]

Agreed. I would like to have more episodes to them exploring the area & learning about why Deanna exiled people etc.

 

CDB shows up & they have caused chaos within a few episodes.

Yes, this. I thought this episode was all kinds of strange. Starting with Carl an Enid's little "run through the woods" in  slow motion. Really? On a show about the zombie apocalypse? I don't know but I just thought are the writers confused about what show they are writing for?  I also thought the whole Jessie/Rick dialogue was beyond weird. No, Rick, leave us alone, I can fix it, I've fixed it before, just get out.  Pretty believable for a battered woman, right? Then 3 minutes later, Well, alrighty then, go ahead and kill him.  Seriously? I mean yeah, she could get from A to B but that quickly? Not buying it, not for a second.

 

Then we have  Rick,  so far gone that he can't see the logic of what Deanna is saying about how you just don't go and KILL your only surgeon in the middle of the ZA?  Frankly I don't see exile as a really good choice either. How about you just separate them, make sure he has no access to booze with the threat of being exiled if he bothers her? I just don't buy that Rick has become that person and what really grates was his comment that he wouldn't do it for anyone else. WTF? So, it's not just that you can't stand by and watch a woman abused, it's because you really are thinking only with  your little head? Seriously? 

 

I get that the whole premise of the show is based on the absurd. I resisted this show for years because of the absurdity, and the violence. I still hate the violence. I am not in this for the heads exploding, and  certainly not to see people eaten. I don't watch those scenes, so it's not like I am clamoring for more violence, more action.  I like the suspense and the human interaction. I assume we were supposed to be seeing human interaction last night, but it felt way to fake to me to be entertaining.

 

I am just gonna say it. I really don't like Rick. I never really felt the Rick love before, but now I just plain don't like him. Maybe because I didn't like him all that much to begin with I didn't care if he was chasing a married woman. I generally don't care who cheats and who doesn't, including politicians. Not my business, I'm not judging.  But if he's willing to kill a man in order to cheat? Yeah, well now I'm judging. So egotistical that you are going to tell a woman who just lost her son, (douchebag or not, it's her son), that everything she is so proud of is wrong and stupid? And you are going to do it publicly after beating up the only surgeon in town, making yourself look like a raving lunatic? Good move. Screw you Rick. 

 

I vote for making Glen the new sheriff in town.

Edited March 23, 2015 by chlban

[ghoulina]

I liked Sam running to Carol and clinging to her during the fight but I was surprised that he did not go to his mother even after she was knocked back by Pete.

 

It doesn't seem like Pete is hitting his kids, but they clearly know about it. And it's a terrifying situation for a child to live in. He might feel more comfortable with Carol who has shown she is tough and doesn't put up with BS. 

[islandgal140]

In general this was an odd episode. I wish we got more Daryl in the woods and less Peyton Place.

 

Well, according to urban dictionary, Sam and Rick are both crazy for cookies, although Rick's is of a differing variety shall we say

 

 

Cookie: the female genitalia, a nicer name for a p*&ssy

 

While watching the show last night, I was half expecting a voice over to come on and say that the part of Shane is now being played by Rick Grimes, like they used to do back in the day for soaps when an actor was replaced. I felt this way especially when he barged into her living room and mentioned her boys. Shane always used the ability to protect Lori and the boys as manipulation using Rick's inability due to his lack of pragmatism and failure to adapt to the new walker world as a foil. 

 

I don't dislike Jessie. I just wished the show gave me more of a reason to care about her outside Rick wanting some cookie. 

 

Shallow note: I am glad we got to keep Deanna's hotter son. 

 

It is so jarring to watch the crew being unable to find water to drink to seeing people closing their garage doors (was that really necessary?), using baby monitors, ovens and playing cds. 

 

Her idea of taking care of herself seems to be letting another man take care of her.  Like Lori. 

Rick obviously has a type - albatross. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by islandgal140

[Shriekingeel]

because like someone else said above he's basically become the same type of people who ran Terminus

Or the Claimed gang. Rick has basically "Claimed" Jessie.

[Constantinople]

Also why in the world would she believe Nicolas's story? I thought it was their way to leave people behind when it got too tough, wasn't that what the construction guy said? It's also not like they only lost her idiot son, they lost Noah.

I agree. It's the ASZ way, so presumably Deanna is aware of it.

Even if Deanna isn't on her 'A' game because of her son's death, uncritically accepting Nicolas's story doesn't make sense. The last three runs that Aiden & Nicholas made resulted in

1. 4 dead (before Glenn, Tara and Noah were at ASZ)

2. 0 dead, but after returning to ASZ, Glenn hits Aiden to the ground after almost getting everyone killed. Deanna thanks Glenn and said Aiden needed that

3. 2 dead (Aiden & Noah) and 1 gravely injured (Tara)

What's the common denominator? Not Glenn, Tara or Noah.

It's another example, I think, of how the ASZ storyline has been so rushed. I don't really understand what's going on in Deanna's head.

 

If Sasha wants to go around killing walkers, I say let her. Although maybe tell her to use knifes or sharp objects instead of wasting all the ammo.

I agree.

At least Sasha is useful crazy.

Rick, however, is in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[mandolin]

You know, I'm all for Michonne laying down the smackdown, but Rick wasn't wrong, the ASZhats suck as all get out. Boy, what a bunch of self-serving cowards.

 

In other news, I don't see Rick as crazy for Jessie, just as crazy in general, full stop. Jessie is just a symptom of the undelying issue, which is the fact that most of CDB is tissue paper people held together with string and chewing-gum, and are now tearing to shreds, because for the first time in a long while they can afford to.

They can stop and think about everything, and process what has happened to them so far. Not for nothing, but the two people who had the darkest, most traumatic experiences even BEFORE the whole cannibal shitfest were Rick and Carol, and they are the ones losing it the hardest.

 

Love Glenn, and Steven Yeun, who's grown so fucking much as an actor since season 1 that it's astonishing.

 

I quoted this post of yours because it's the first I read in this thread, but I love your posts and what you have you say, so thanks for saying it. Ha.

 

I guess for me the difference is that I'm seeing the story as the same for Rick as for Michonne or Carl or Sasha or any of the core group: a very real dissonance between what was, what is, and what could be. Each of them has a memory (maybe less so Carl) of life before the ZA and all the hopes and dreams that that entailed, a clear sense of the very real danger that is out there beyond the walls of Alexandria,  and conflicting views of what Alexandria might be able to provide in terms of a future. Jessie and her situation is just bringing all these conflicts within Rick to the surface.  I don't see it as a "romance" so much as a further exploration of Rick's damaged psyche, and therefore who exactly Jessie is is not as important as what she represents to Rick.

Rick is having PTSD just like everyone else. Heck, Sasha is just really starting to have it; Rick's had it for MONTHS and MONTHS. The last time I can remember someone asking him if he was okay was Michonne on the tracks. And even then she didn't even ask him, she just said she knew he was okay because she was. I like Rick. I always have, even in the midst of his poor decisions and phone calls to dead people. Everyone wants him to be the leader, whether they say it or not. It happens over and over again, but no one seems to care that much about what being the leader has done to him. He shoulders so much, and it has changed him. He's so afraid to make mistakes and lose people. Even after he bit out someone's throat and was horrified at what he'd become, the next minute he was reassuring Daryl that Daryl is his brother and they are fine. Rick never gets a break. Not even in ASZ, where, even if he TRIES, he's still the "law" and all that entails. And I'm sure Deanna telling him (the constable) what to do adds a further layer of stress to a man barely hanging on. Not to mention what it must feel like to be back in uniform after all this time. Maybe like a "reset" and yet, things are still not the same, not at all.

 

I don't love that they've made him gaga over Jessie (since that's how it's being shown/perceived), but I do want the man to have a rest. Have someone care for him. Reward him for the good things he has done, because he has done them.

Edited March 23, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Removed quote from suspect source.

[Sasha]

I just can't with this show any more. It's ridiculous to think the ASZ people have had enough booze to keep the doctor drunk and abusing for what about two years? Do they send people out on a run once a month to load up? Destroy all the booze in town and if he keeps beating the family you put his ass in a jail cell. You can build a wall around the entire town but can't manage a cell? I'd put his ass in a cage in the middle of the woods for a week and see if that doesn't straighten his shit out.

After everything our group has been through they still don't sit down and talk to each other. Why are they not having meetings every night? Glen, Abraham, Maggie and Carol should have updated everyone on what's going on. We should see them together making plans. Then call a fucking town meeting and tell all these fools what is going on in the world. Crazy psychopaths with tanks, freak cannibals, hospitals run by rapist cops, herds by the thousands, etc. Maybe a CDC update? Do they even know they all carry the virus?

How many people live there? I can't believe these clueless idiots have been able to build that wall or even find supplies. Maybe if they started out with 1000 and they're down to 30 cowards. And yet again our group is basically separate from each other. Daryl, Sasha, Carl, etc. off in their own plots. Those W's will attack and scatter our group just like the farm or prison because they never make a back up plan and talk to each other!

Instead we get this soap opera bullshit with Rick and teen romance with Carl. Rick is the worst leader ever. This latest freak out has me hating the character. Noah is dead, Tara seriously hurt and Glen barely survived. His family and yet he is like a dog in heat chasing after some stupid chick he just met? Why is this guy still in charge? He fucked up at the prison, Carol saved their asses at Terminus and he got Beth killed at the hospital. He is mentally unstable and frankly not that bright. I can sort of understand the crazy and the kill or be killed attitude but there 's just too much stupid to have survived this long.

[Tippi Blevins]

When Sasha was out shooting all those walkers, or any time people use a lot of ammo, I always think it would be such a useful skill in the apocalypse to know how to make ammo...

[chlban]

The problem for me is that the total lack of characterization for her outside of being Rick's fantasy woman leads to a complete inability to read Rick or this situation. Is this supposed to be a hero saving an abuse victim? Or is it a mentally disturbed man obsessing over a scared woman who has no way out any way she goes? Are we supposed to be moved, as Jessie was, when he says he would not save any abuse victim but her? Are we supposed to like this, because it tells us she and Rick are the real thing? 

 

If Aiden had had one scene where he was a total asshole and another scene where he was a nice enough guy and Glenn acted like a lunatic around him, then I'd see the comparison more.

 

What bothers me the most is that this inconsistent writing is dragging down other characters, beyond the damage already done to Rick. I've seen people belittling Michonne, saying she is "the new Andrea" who has "chosen a warm bed over a friend."

 

The show has so romanticized Rick's obsessive attitude toward Jessie that other characters not going along with his belief that ONLY Jessie matters and screw the rest are now being seen as disloyal and selfish.

Not by me. I think anyone following Rick at this point is being stupid. Watching Michone clock him was the highlight of the show for me. 

 

But, I agree with your overall point. Rick lovers want to blame everyone else, when Rick is the current whack a do. Well, Sasha isn't doing so well either but at least, up to this point, she is only harming Walkers. I have a feeling that storyline isn't going to end well either though.

[Pete Martell]

After everything our group has been through they still don't sit down and talk to each other. Why are they not having meetings every night? Glen, Abraham, Maggie and Carol should have updated everyone on what's going on. We should see them together making plans. Then call a fucking town meeting and tell all these fools what is going on in the world. Crazy psychopaths with tanks, freak cannibals, hospitals run by rapist cops, herds by the thousands, etc. Maybe a CDC update? Do they even know they all carry the virus?

How many people live there? I can't believe these clueless idiots have been able to build that wall or even find supplies. Maybe if they started out with 1000 and they're down to 30 cowards. And yet again our group is basically separate from each other. Daryl, Sasha, Carl, etc. off in their own plots. Those W's will attack and scatter our group just like the farm or prison because they never make a back up plan and talk to each other!

Instead we get this soap opera bullshit with Rick and teen romance with Carl. Rick is the worst leader ever. This latest freak out has me hating the character. Noah is dead, Tara seriously hurt and Glen barely survived. His family and yet he is like a dog in heat chasing after some stupid chick he just met? Why is this guy still in charge? He fucked up at the prison, Carol saved their asses at Terminus and he got Beth killed at the hospital. He is mentally unstable and frankly not that bright. I can sort of understand the crazy and the kill or be killed attitude but there 's just too much stupid to have survived this long.

 

This is something I've been struggling with and I really wish the show would clarify, because I don't feel like they're writing this as a group and I don't feel like they're writing Rick as the leader anymore. He hasn't been one since he gave up control in late season 3. Yet they aren't working together the way they did at the prison in early season 4. I think it's because so many strong new personalities have joined the group and don't have any great loyalty to Rick, and other survivors like Maggie, Glenn and Michonne are also increasingly resistant to Rick's worldview, so they've just gone in various directions as soon as they no longer HAD to be together to survive. 

 

I think Rick and Carol see themselves as needing to make decisions that will impact the group and help the group, and help Alexandria, all helping them from themselves, but I don't feel like the rest of the group feels that way anymore, and haven't in a while. At this point I'm even a little iffy on whether Daryl does, since he has separated himself from them by choice and has done so for two straight episodes now.

[Shriekingeel]

It does seem like they're being followed. I wonder if whomever is killing people for sport, and tying them to trees, knows about the group(s) and is leading the walkers their way.

You wonder. "There are a lot more than there used to be," per Aaron.

[mandolin]

Instead we get this soap opera bullshit with Rick and teen romance with Carl. Rick is the worst leader ever. This latest freak out has me hating the character. Noah is dead, Tara seriously hurt and Glen barely survived. His family and yet he is like a dog in heat chasing after some stupid chick he just met? Why is this guy still in charge? He fucked up at the prison, Carol saved their asses at Terminus and he got Beth killed at the hospital. He is mentally unstable and frankly not that bright. I can sort of understand the crazy and the kill or be killed attitude but there 's just too much stupid to have survived this long.

I don't think Beth's death was Rick's fault. I lay that on Beth herself.

 

I don't think that he's really "in charge" of anything. Everyone is doing their own thing. But if he is the leader, and they choose to follow him, AND he's crazy, that doesn't say much for anyone else either.

[nachomama]

When Rick went through his lil breakdown at the prison, I got really tired of it. We aint got time for you to answer faux phone calls from beyond and see your wife in her dress out in the prison yard. So Sasha is getting old too. 

 

And I'm getting annoyed now with 3 episodes in a row they've done the "splash" of guts on our tv screens. I realize it's based on a comic/graphic novel but breaking the 4th wall repeatedly just reminds me I'm watching a show. I don't jump in my chair cuz brain matter is flying at me, it's not a Robert Rodriguez film. 

[Primetimer]

Rick Grimes singlehandedly shows why in the undead apocalypse we can't have nice things.

Read the story

[PunkyMouse]

My main problem with this whole Rick storyline is that it seems to have come out of nowhere. It was just too damn fast! They want me to buy that Rick is going all apeshit googoo gaga over Jessie after just arriving in Alexandria, but I don't.

This kind of storyline is something that has to build over time, especially for someone like Rick who has been so traumatized by what he's gone through outside the walls. But shave and a haircut and Bam he's in love with someone that he hardly knows? I'm sorry it's just too stupid for me and is OOC for Rick.

I floved Michonne knocking him on his ass, and I'm probably in the minority, but I am far more interested in Carl/Enid than any of the adult relationships at the moment.

Edited March 23, 2015 by PunkyMouse

[diebartdie]

When Deanna was watching her video of the interview with Dickolas, he said "you don't know, you don't see everything" and she replies something like she sees far more than he realizes. I don't think she believes him at all BUT she also is starting to think bringing in Rick was a HUGE mistake. I dont think she feels that way about the entire CDB and that's why she's been letting everything play out.

 

When Porchdick and Rictator were cave manning each other and the POV switched to Sasha shooting the wall walkers, it is very obvious that the wall has a giant gap. Watch the scene and look in the lower left area of the picture, you'll see what I mean. The effects people missed putting cgi wall there.

 

I agree with everyone, this storyline got fucked by being rushed. One or two episodes of Rapey Hospital ought to have been eliminated to give another episode or two to ASZ. I totally buy Rick being insane, he's really been shown as someone with serious mental illness for a very long time now but what I dont get and I dont buy at all is his violent lust for Jessie. I dont buy for one second, even as psychotic as he is that he would be so willing to put Coral and Judith in danger of being cast out over a woman he met 2 weeks ago. Jessie is cute but Jessie is as clueless and dumb as all the other ASZhats, why would that hold any appeal at all to Rick? Rick is insane, not stupid. If Rick is going to be hot for anyone, he's going to be hot for someone who can survive OUT THERE with minimal support, not Betty Homemaker (or Alice the Artist).

[Boofish]

I would like to purchase one ticket on the Rick train. While the delivery was not well timed it was spot on. I really just want to take my savings and buy just about everyone in Alexandria a pair of gasoline drawers and a one way ticket to Hell (with a few exceptions but not many) I don't know why but seeing them strutting around with balloons and dogs and what not like it's Mayberry was just boiling my blood and for all things to tip me over the edge - Jessie had a working garage door. I don't know why but that bothered me so much. These people are just flat out some lucky cowards

 

There is a part of me that hoped Michonne knocked Rick out to keep someone in the crowd from killing him or kicking him out on his ass right there on the spot.  

 

After everything they have seen, after all they have done to survive, I can't believe they think they can just live in paradise

[poppy-]

No way did Deanna believe the coward.

[sacrebleu]

 

He hasn't been shown to be like Ed, he's shown to be a jerk when drinking.  Jessie said he got better with counseling.  If he were sober he might be reasoned with.

Which leads me to my nitpick. These people lock up the chocolate-- but this guy seems to have unlimited access to booze? WTF!

[diebartdie]

Boofish, I agree, the copious, pointless use of electricity just took me out of the story over and over, starting with Deanna's mourning family scene. They are conserving electricity by burning candles and yet they have the CD player all fired up and ready to go! Meanwhile Carol, who is the ultimate survivor, whose house is RIGHT AT THE FLIMSY ASS GATE, has every light on, and the stove, just freely wasting energy like a 21st century American instead of a 1st century ZA Survivor it pissed me off but I bet her tuna casserole was DELICIOUS! Which reminds me, even in AZS who the fuck thinks its ok to waste food?!?!!? The floating red balloon was a blatant metaphor for Rick's barely contained LustRage but seriously? Helium is running out in the real world, would Helium be a useful commodity on the ZA?? Even for clueless assholes like the ASZ, helium of all things ought not be on the grocery list. Bottled alcahol too but I could see Dr Porchdick running a moonshine still.

Edited March 23, 2015 by diebartdie

[lulee]

Did Carol say that she wanted someone to see her leaving the casserole? Or was she just pointing someone out to Rick?

I don't remember exactly. Maybe both, but it was another way Carol was intent on keeping up appearances.

 

I think maybe when Rick said he wouldn't "do this" for anyone else, it had to do with being willing to take on responsibility for Jessie and her child afterward.

Which reminds me - where is Ron in this family drama? I know that teens are often off on their own or off with friends, but he's barely even been mentioned. If he was there for the fisticuffs, I missed him.

 

I loved the whole scene where Michonne was triggered (and I don't know if I've ever seen a better execution on a TV show recently of a scene of someone being triggered) by what Sasha was doing. It reminded her of a part of herself she was trying to suppress, and that she needed to deal with. Then you had Rosita joining in, to help, and likely to struggle with some of her own demons.

I liked that scene as well. Within a few seconds we saw (as in "show-don't-tell") Michonne's conflicted feelings and that eruption and urgency for her. And moment of Rosita's reluctance to join it was good after her comment that things already felt different.

 

No way did Deanna believe the coward.

I don't think she believed Nicholas either which is why I think it's building to an effort or vote to banish Rick, not all of CDB. She may not have entirely belived FPP, but what he said could have looked to Deanna like a prediction of Rick's behavior toward the Porch family.

[Ohwell]

This Rick/Jessie/Pete storyline is the worst one ever on this show.

[ghoulina]

Boofish, I agree, the copious, pointless use of electricity just took me out of the story over and over, starting with Deanna's mourning family scene. They are conserving electricity by burning candles and yet they have the CD player all fired up and ready to go!

 

See, I didn't even think they were trying to conserve electricity with the candles. I thought it was mood lighting, as you could see an actual light on in the dining room or kitchen behind them. They were having a "moment" for Aiden, complete with his horrible taste in music. I felt awful, but that scene actually made me laugh so hard. 

[shanndee]

I actually never really understood the concept of character assassination. Sometimes characters do stupid, out of character things, or huge mistakes, or irrational things, but in my experience so do real people. I can't count how many times someone I thought I knew very well did something I never would have expected them to do, sometimes in positively surprising ways, others in really disappointing ways.

I'm pretty certain that I, myself, have done grossly stupid stuff that made the people who know me go "WTF is she doing, this isn't like her", from really small things to bigger, more important ones.

I don't know, I just don't really see Carol killing Karvid and Rick losing it completely as character assassination, just irrational, deranged decision making, that can happen in real life as well, compounded by the fucked up situation they live in.

I don't have the highest trust in these writers, and I certainly don't think they can do no wrong, but the concept itself of character assassination is something I just don't get.

 

Agreed. I have been known to make some bad, out of character decisions myself in real life. These people are surviving in the Zombie Apocalypse. They are incredibly damaged, and are reacting to stimuli in a way that their horrible experiences have twisted into "the new normal".

 

I don't see character assassination, or even out of character reactions. I think most of it is actually character evolution. We may not like what the characters are evolving into, but it is in response to the horrors they have survived.

[HalcyonDays]

I haven't caught up on all of the posts yet (you guys give me too much worK) but I have a theory.

 

Remember WAY BACK in the first two episodes, Morgan, his son and Rick are locked in the house, and Morgan is telling Rick that his wife (who is a Walker) keeps coming back to the house, as though it was a sixth sense?

 

What is the Walkers with the carved W's are like that? They all lived in ASZ, those mansions are their homes. For whatever reason, they were exiled. W's were carved on their foreheads as a warning, and they were dropping at Noah's family community. They of course spraypainted the 'Unfair Wolves" thing on the wall.

 

They probably started heading back to ASZ for revenge maybe, to take it back, but got killed in the process. However, their sixth sense is still kicked in - like Morgan's wife - and they are all slowly heading back to ASZ. That's why we keep seeing more and more W's on walker foreheads. Because if you exile people, you aren't going to simply drop them outside the front door. If you do, whenever you go for a run, they can attack you.

 

That's my theory as to why we keep seeing more and more W's popping up.

[Boofish]

Rick amputated a man's leg with not so much as an aspirin and he lived. Merle cut off his own hand. They don't want to separate Pete for fear he is going to not help them. Help them with what? They all look pretty healthy to me. Is he the only doctor in town that takes the ASZhat HMO? I agree the abuse story line is a bit played but for them to just sit back and let it happen because Pete is a "surgeon." Who the Fillmore Ulysses Coolidge Kennedy do they think they are that they get to decide who is more valuable than whom. I guess if Pete had been a clerk at the local Piggy Wiggly before the ZA he couldn't beat his wife? They can live without a surgeon; they have lived without a clue with no problem. Goodness I hate that fictional town

[Persnickety1]

My mom saw it and said "what the hell is up with the balloon?" I said maybe it's there because Rick is actually a ghost. (A la Sixth Sense)

 

I thought it was the last glimmer of hope/sanity Rick had. As he rolled on the ground with PorchDick, it flew away. Symbolism, man.

 

I kept waiting for Pennywise to appear and inform Rick that "we all float down here."

[nachomama]

See, I didn't even think they were trying to conserve electricity with the candles. I thought it was mood lighting, as you could see an actual light on in the dining room or kitchen behind them. They were having a "moment" for Aiden, complete with his horrible taste in music. I felt awful, but that scene actually made me laugh so hard. 

I also laughed at Deanna attempting to connect through Aiden's music. I think the candles were about mood but yes these people shouldn't be blazing all the electricty 24/7. Even the governor pointed out certain hours, just like noise all the lights at night would attract walkers one would think. In so many respects they should still revert to pioneer times and learn to function sunup to sundown. Use it when necessary but don't be a flashing neon sign "people to eat"

[90 Day Pinochet]

It is an interesting juxtaposition between Rick's "broken window theory" from last week which says we have to pay attention to the small crimes to keep the big ones from happening and Deanna's "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few" theory of a doctor helps more people than an abuser hurts.

 

Rick has updated his "broken window theory" policy....

 

 

Oh, so you think its just an owl sculpture? WINDOW. Stolen bars of chocolate? Sorry, kid. WINDOW. Failure to curb your dog? Ever wondered what it would be like to be in an old west saloon brawl? Wonder no longer: WINDOW.

[Ohwell]

You know, I'm all for Michonne laying down the smackdown, but Rick wasn't wrong, the ASZhats suck as all get out. Boy, what a bunch of self-serving cowards.

But if the ASZhats are so bad, why don't Rick and anyone else who wants to follow him--get the fuck out of town? 

 

I refuse to see how living in the woods makes you superior to people who have showers, food, ammo and warm beds.

Yes. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Ohwell

[diebartdie]

OMG yes, that music! So grating, loud, ugly (no offense NIN fans but there is a time and a place for everything and sitting in the dark, mouring your son is not the time for that music UNLESS you are a family of goth/punk/death metal people). When I die, I hope this get's played at my funeral/wake but it really does fit this storyline too if you listen to it...

[kikismom]

Was the baby monitor shown just to explain that Judith was not forgotten? Or will it return?

Because it would be great to use outside, while you were exploring a house or something and wanted an early warning device to know if someone was coming in. Or recreate the blender gun theft to identify who is watching you...make a show of going to some wreckage with a a mysterious bag, walk out without it, but leave the camera thing,  go off a distance and watch through the monitor to see if someone has been tracking you and takes the bag.

 

I don't think the balloon was about Rick losing his mind; I agree with Omar's take in the recap that the happy child has the balloon, later it is lost, representing the good naive innocent days of ASZ slipping away.

 

This is silly, but I cannot help but ask...in the picture in the recap, we see a still of Carol's casserole on the porch. Leaving food on the porch is weird ( I know Carol didn't want to encounter them but put the food on a folding chair or something). But it didn't even have a cover/lid? Eeeuuuw! Is ASZ so Disneyfied that they don't even have bugs or mice? Who puts a gift dish of hot food on the floor outdoors uncovered? I wouldn't eat it either.

[diebartdie]

But if the ASZhats are so bad, why don't Rick and anyone else who wants to follow him--get the fuck out of town? 

Because if Rick has his way, CDB will take that town for their own. Too bad Rick's dick was put in charge of planning the take over. Also, kikismom the casserole dish DID have a cover, the note was propped up on it.

Edited March 23, 2015 by diebartdie

[Sakura12]

It wasn't so much the type of music that bothered me over the ASZhats being too stupid to live if they don't realize LOUD noises attract walkers (or other dangerous people). Deanna blasting that music was probably the cause of some of the walkers wandering towards the gate. Even when she turned it off the walkers would keep heading in the same general direction. 

 

I'm sure some other person or group is leading the walkers towards them, but I'm still going to go with the Monroe's helping them out. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Sakura12

[hoosiermommy]

I really don't understand Nicholas.  If he is so dang scared and he has been nearly killed at least once (though, really, what is the likelihood that it only happened once), and has failed on his runs at least twice (though, really, what is the likelihood that it only happened twice) why is he so heck-bent on going out on runs?  Do those who do  go outside get some special perks that we don't see?  Do they get banished if they ask to be reassigned? (I don't think so, we saw Tobin from the construction site run over during the fight, so he is sill there).  Is it male pride?  He isn't good at it.  He doesn't like it.  There are other things he could be doing that are less dangerous but still can sooth his "manly" pride (turns at the bell tower or wall patrol or converting a building into jail cells).  I just don't understand why someone, especially someone who has seen the consequences of failure outside the walls isn't jumping at the chance to make something up to get him reassigned inside the walls. 

 

We know where he falls in the fight or flight spectrum...why doesn't he?