Season 5: Days of Real Housewives Lives - The Season in Review

[SwordQueen]

If you have even one tenth of the presence in your life that you have in your writing about these issues, you are a mighty force indeed, SwordQueen.

 

That is so, so sweet of you to say, film noire!  Wow, I really appreciate it.  I'm glad to hear that all of my long-winded, word-vomit makes some kinda sense and doesn't just bore everyone to tears.  I always feel like such an dork because the only reason I watch reality shows is because I like the sociology and psychology aspects of it.  I like figuring people out, which includes myself.  RHoBH is so great because it also includes cool homes and pretty, shiny things to look at. 

[quinn]

Again, though Kyle likes to SAY "mom told me to take care of you" she has never, not once, disputed Kim's claim that their mother asked the same thing of Kim.  It was a "take care of each other" request, not some "Kyle is the savior and must suffer for her sister" deal.

 

I agree.  Kyle brought up that she promised her mother that she would take care of Kim in a talking head in season one.  At some point, I think while season one was airing Kim countered and said that all of the sisters were told to take care of each other.  Since season one, Kyle has brought up / implied that she  feels a responsibility towards her sister but she does not couch it like she did in season one that she was adhering to a vow that she made to Big Kathy when BK was on her death bed.

[LotusFlower]

She's said "Mom asked me to take care of you too, for us to take care of EACH OTHER."

Was this in the episode that Zoeysmom mentioned - when Kim won her Oscar?

Because the scene we keep referencing had no mention of Big Kathy. And the only other times Kyle talked about this was in TH's, for obvious reasons ("promise to take care of your older sister, the alcoholic.")

 Since season one, Kyle has brought up / implied that she  feels a responsibility towards her sister but she does not couch it like she did in season one that she was adhering to a vow that she made to Big Kathy when BK was on her death bed.

Actually she did this season in the limo ride to Eileen's house for Poker Night.

[LotusFlower]

I think I have been giving Kyle so much credit lately is because I do see that she is trying..... I give her credit for that because she wasn't handed all of those things above, she's worked for it and put in the effort...... I really disliked her on Season 1, with her immaturity, pettiness and mean-girl streak. I do believe that she has taken that criticism and worked on altering her behavior. In fact, I think this show has done her a huge favor in not only highlighting her own flaws that she can work on but in highlighting the dysfunctional relationship she has with Kim. I think this show may be the push she needed to reassess that relationship, or at least I'm hoping.

SwordQueen - I love your whole post, but I highlighted this part because of an interview I remember with Kyle. I'm embarrassed to say I was Team Brandi in her first go-around (was it season 2?), in part because I saw a likeable gal on crutches, new to the group, getting ganged up on by the Mean Girl Pointer Sisters at Game Night, and I thought they were terrible. Kyle was interviewed on Showbiz Tonight on CNN, and she, too, said she was terrible. I remember it vividly because I had never seen a HW own up to their bad behavior. She said that it was embarrassing for her to watch and doesn't represent who she is (ok, typical), but she took responsibility for it and said she would learn from it. And she has. Gotta give a person credit for that.

With the abundance of reality stars on TV these days, I always admire the ones, and they are few and far between, who say that it's a gift to see yourself as others see you (like Carole on RHONY). What you do with that information or awareness or different angle is up to you. Kyle is plenty flawed, but she saw something in herself that she didn't like, and changed. Or at least is trying. How many of us can say the same (even in our non-televised lives!). And I'll end with the reminder that it's a step more than her make-no-apologies sister is doing.

Edited March 29, 2015 by LotusFlower

[quinn]

Actually she did this season in the limo ride to Eileen's house for Poker Night.

 

I should have added the qualifier, "not to my recollection," rather than stated it as an absolute. Having said that, I replayed the two scenes of Kyle and Brandi going to Eileen's and did not see where Kyle stated or implied that she promised her mother that she will take care of Kim.

[Rhetorica]

Thank you for saying that. I'm always a work in progress. lol I have a lot of admiration for you, and those like you, who seem to have always had a strong sense of self, in that you knew who you were and knew who you didn't want to become and you manifested it. Some people aren't able to accomplish that even by the end of their lives. I had/have a bad relationship with my mother and although by nature, I'm not much like her, I've also made a conscious decision to treat others differently than she does. I wonder if it's just easier for people to decide to not be like their parent(s) when they don't naturally have the same personalities/mindsets, like it's easier to see traits in others that are opposite of your own than the traits that are the same or similar?

I am also so frustrated by Kyle. I want to take her by the shoulders and shake some sense into her! lol I think many of us here feel similarly, because so many of us on this board seem to have gone through and are going through some really hard stuff and we can relate to some degree. I also think that's why most of us are on here to begin with -- we don't take things at face value and we're always digging deeper to uncover the real motivations behind people's actions, because we've had to do that with ourselves.

With Kyle, she's frustrating to me because she seems to have so many wonderful things in her life, from a loving, handsome, hard-working husband, to beautiful, healthy, seemingly well-adjusted kids, to intimate long-term friendships, to a beautiful home and plenty of money coming from several profitable businesses. But she pours so much energy into the dysfunctional relationship with her sister and into dwelling in the past. It feels like such a waste.

I think I have been giving Kyle so much credit lately is because I do see that she is trying. She's not like Kim or Kathy in their hectic, dysfunctional marriages, issues with their children (the Hilton's stuck up, drugged up kids and Kim's kids having to threaten to cut their mother off if she doesn't quit the drugs), drug and partying proclivities, etc. I give her credit for that because she wasn't handed all of those things above, she's worked for it and put in the effort. She also kind of bucked her family dynamic in marrying Mauricio, who wasn't some heir to a fortune with a high society name. She seems to have been putting in some effort to change herself since this show began as well. I really disliked her on Season 1, with her immaturity, pettiness and mean-girl streak. I do believe that she has taken that criticism and worked on altering her behavior. In fact, I think this show has done her a huge favor in not only highlighting her own flaws that she can work on but in highlighting the dysfunctional relationship she has with Kim. I think this show may be the push she needed to reassess that relationship, or at least I'm hoping.

I'm not just somehow biased towards Kyle. If Kim or Brandi had some self-awareness, humility, and gratitude and put in some effort to change what wasn't working, I'd have given them some credit as well. But both take their inner demons and push them outward into the world by projecting their self-hatred onto others and blaming people for their own behavior. It's hard enough to deal with people whose issues are reflected so inwardly that they self-destruct (being a person with issues, I can say this. lol) but it's beyond reasonable to have to deal with people who are so mean, rude, and thoughtless, that they take pleasure in destroying everyone around them as well. Neither are healthy but I guess, personally, I draw the line in being sympathetic and supportive towards those who don't give a damn that they hurt others because they, themselves, are hurting.

You've written, quite eloquently, a good case study of RHBH. I'm taking some of your observations to The Cabana to talk with you more there.

eta: cause verb tenses should just get along and agree...

Edited March 29, 2015 by Rhetorica

[zoeysmom]

Just wondering...

Kim and Brandi have tried to make the point (in mostly rude ways) that there is a double standard - that it's okay to talk about Kim's sobriety or Brandi's sloppy drinking, but not okay to focus on the other ladies' foibles.

In your opinion, have things been fair, or is it just easy to justify scrutiny of Kim and Brandi's issues because they're so volatile?

To me and this is just my opinion,  Kim and Brandi act up on camera and stab below the belt (thanks Yolanda).  What Brandi and now Kim want to do is counter act their bad deeds by dredging up years old or subjective opinions of the married ladies lives.   To bring up Eileen and Vince's courtship is ridiculous-Brandi knows that have children, it has zero impact on the viewers or her and that doesn't need to be rehashed. Calling Brandi out on throwing wine in Eileen's face is relevant and  timely as she did it on camera without provocation.   

 

Brandi verbally bashing everyone but Kim at Poker Night was relevant, bringing up Kim's 2 am phone calls and Kyle's alleged hypocrisy is a reach. My theory is anytime Brandi feels insignificant she goes for the married women's menstrual status or other some silly thing. 

 

Kim is far worse because she DEMANDS people only consider her behavior since her last rehab but brings up these very broad allegations.  She has now done it to Lisa R, Eileen and Kyle.  When Kyle and Kim are having a discussion about the house, which Kim brought up, Kim loses her temper when Kyle said Kim was not in a position to take on another mortgage.  Kim immediately turns that into Kyle needs to take care of her own business.  Kim also throws out the assertion that Kyle needs to be there for her more like Brandi who invited her to a BBQ-maybe Kim would get  more invitations if she didn't drag Brandi along to her sister's events.

 

Where I do get certain things are fair game Brandi's very public misdeeds, bringing up unsubstantiated rumors designed to hurt another (Mauricio's cheating rumors).  Bringing up rumors under the guise of setting the record straight is wrong unless the person who the rumor is about goes there.

 

Here are the things that were avoided and they were recent public:  LvP lawsuit and losing it. Not a mention of it all season.  Bella's DUI was addressed several times.  So Kim going and looking or suggesting there is something off in Rinna's marriage or about her husband is just dirty fighting.

 

Brandi based an entire season around the fact that Kyle wasn't there for Kim planning her daughter's wedding and thus made Kyle a horrible c*nt of human being and fame whore.   It is something Kim doesn't want to talk about (whatever she called Brandi at 2 am to discuss) so just to keep throwing the allegation out there become obscured-especially since the wedding was over and done early in the season.  Quite honestly in a family of three daughters, two half sisters, a mother and a aunt who was having the wedding at her house were all in the loop and the bride and the grooms family I am curious why Kyle was desperately needed.  If it was just that Kim wanted Kyle's sympathy for being overwhelmed that to me is petty.

 

So the question remains what do Kim and Brandi want to talk about regarding the other women?  Horrible comments that LvP is essentially a prostitute for having sex with her husband who is 16 years older (this would also apply to Yolanda)?  LvP cheating with her trainer (who she does not employ one)?  More importantly who would want someone in their social circle who brings up old news or just throws blatant lies out there?  I contrast that with Brandi getting drunk and misbehaving and Kim just being a surly bitch.  Brandi brought up these life destroying comments and pointed her finger at Eileen-yet she is the one that throws out  zinger after zinger about the other women.  I get that Brandi wanted Lisa R to take more heat than she did and maybe rightfully so but Lisar had taken time to develop relationships with the married ladies and did not have a history of repeatedly attacking when unprovoked.  

[blueeyed]

Just wondering...

Kim and Brandi have tried to make the point (in mostly rude ways) that there is a double standard - that it's okay to talk about Kim's sobriety or Brandi's sloppy drinking, but not okay to focus on the other ladies' foibles.

In your opinion, have things been fair, or is it just easy to justify scrutiny of Kim and Brandi's issues because they're so volatile?

When Brandi goes on her "double standard" rants I'm usually confused because I have yet to see any other housewife (other than Taylor after her husbands suicide - and I give her pass because .....) slur, stumble, slap, throw drinks unprovoked or be an all around drunk/drug addled person. When the others start acting like that I will comment. Like everything else with Brandi, its deflection.

[jinjer]

I remember Kim and Kyle talking to a psychic a few years ago, bringing a box with them - something to do with their mom.  (Good lord I hope it wasn't big Kathy's ashes!).  Something may have been said then about taking care of each other and the psychic jumped all over it.  I thought, why don't you just hand her your history in a letter and then ask for a reading!

 

I don't remember who said what.  But I do recall Kim correcting Kyle at some point in the past few seasons and telling her that their mom wanted them to take care of each other.

[zoeysmom]

I remember Kim and Kyle talking to a psychic a few years ago, bringing a box with them - something to do with their mom.  (Good lord I hope it wasn't big Kathy's ashes!).  Something may have been said then about taking care of each other and the psychic jumped all over it.  I thought, why don't you just hand her your history in a letter and then ask for a reading!

 

I don't remember who said what.  But I do recall Kim correcting Kyle at some point in the past few seasons and telling her that their mom wanted them to take care of each other.

Big Kathy made Kyle the Executor of her trust so I am inclined to believe that the "take care of Kim", was placed on Kyle's shoulders.  As to Kim taking care of Kyle-last I remember what Kim claim to taking care of Kyle was buying Kyle her first car.  A very nice thing to do.  I believe Kim married the same year and quit working.  Kim just isn't a reliable historian-obviously any mom is going to ask that the sisters be supportive of each other.

 

I think Kyle took her mom's wishes way too seriously.  The not selling the house for 10 years-Kim and Kathy bailed after two years, the taking care of Kim-that was Kyle's decision to do that he mom didn't force it from the grave.  A lot happen to Kim between her mom's death in 2001 and when she signed on for this show-the most important was her cash kids all became of age and child support ceased.

[jinjer]

Big Kathy made Kyle the Executor of her trust so I am inclined to believe that the "take care of Kim", was placed on Kyle's shoulders.  As to Kim taking care of Kyle-last I remember what Kim claim to taking care of Kyle was buying Kyle her first car.  A very nice thing to do.  I believe Kim married the same year and quit working.  Kim just isn't a reliable historian-obviously any mom is going to ask that the sisters be supportive of each other.

 

I think Kyle took her mom's wishes way too seriously.  The not selling the house for 10 years-Kim and Kathy bailed after two years, the taking care of Kim-that was Kyle's decision to do that he mom didn't force it from the grave.  A lot happen to Kim between her mom's death in 2001 and when she signed on for this show-the most important was her cash kids all became of age and child support ceased.

I don't doubt any of that.  My post is about what was said on the show.  I remember Kim correcting Kyle on the show, and I was wondering whether it was when they went to the psychic with that box that had something to do with Big Kathy.  Maybe her letters?

[imjagain]

When Brandi goes on her "double standard" rants I'm usually confused because I have yet to see any other housewife (other than Taylor after her husbands suicide - and I give her pass because .....) slur, stumble, slap, throw drinks unprovoked or be an all around drunk/drug addled person. When the others start acting like that I will comment. Like everything else with Brandi, its deflection.

This I how I feel too. Brandi's "not fair" rants make no sense to me at all! Take every thing Brandi did this season and throw in Her treatment of Joyce and I'm shocked how another human being can behave like this and not be mortified and also not be called out on it! So fuck off Brandi with your double standard bull shit.

Edited March 29, 2015 by imjagain

[breezy424]

Does anyone specifically remember what Kyle stated that her mother said...and when Kyle said this?

 

All I do remember is that there something said about taking care of Kim or taking care of each other.  I don't remember.  The bottom line is that how does a mother saying this turn her into some narcissistic evil mother?   Same goes for Kyle saying that her mother told them to not air their dirty laundry.  Sorry guys but I don't see this huge jump.  I see something that is said in a huge number of families. 

 

Does what her mother has said to Kyle affect her?  Sure.  But there's so much more to it.  It's hard for almost everyone to walk away from a sibling.  A sibling who has children.  A sibling who does not have a significant other or parent in their lives.  And add to that when Kyle did confront Kim and announced she was an alcoholic, she was deemed the evil, horrible sister.  Kyle was telling the truth and not revealing anything more that any halfway intelligent viewer could see.  So, four years after that, it's now okay for her to walk away?  After the flack and downright hatred she got for what she said in season one?  Is this all Big Kathy's narcissistic fault or do the viewers share the blame more? 

 

Walking away from a addictive sibling is tough, no matter what your upbringing, parents, or whatever.   It takes an extreme emotional toll.  Each individual needs to come to a place where they feel it's ok to walk away from someone you love whether it be a divorce or addiction or abuse.  It's so easy to tell other people what to do.  No matter what you do, you're criticized.  If you express 'your' feelings, you're a martyr.  If you walk away, you're selfish.  Kim has a disease.  How could you?  She can't win and none of this, Kim's addiction and other problems, are Kyle's fault. 

 

I do hope that Kyle finds the strength and determination to walk away and realize that she deserves happiness just as much as Kim and you can't take care of someone who doesn't want your help.

Edited March 29, 2015 by breezy424

[zoeysmom]

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-1/episode-113/videos?clip=15820759  Here is the limo scene. . . Kyle brings it up.

Oh more talk of houses (Kim did not buy the family home.)

Kyle brought it up Episode 1 Season 1 on the introduction to Kim.

 

BTW the fight was over the word "insecure" not insignificant.

 

Here is the fight the preceded the limo fight-sober or drunk Kim pulls the same punches. 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-1/episode-113/videos?clip=15820762

 

Personally I don't see much progress Kim is still saying Kyle's good friends talk about her and say she lies (Palm Springs Season 5) and she pulled the same thing here-only in front of them.  Kim drunk is a little less obnoxious than sober Kim.

 

Here is the trailer for Season 1

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/videos/playlist?clip=15067209

 

Everyone has aged so much in four years.  Guys included.

 

After five years very little progress.

Edited March 29, 2015 by zoeysmom

[Me Too]

 

Walking away from a addictive sibling is tough, no matter what your upbringing, parents, or whatever.   It takes an extreme emotional toll.  Each individual needs to come to a place where they feel it's ok to walk away from someone you love whether it be a divorce or addiction or abuse.  It's so easy to tell other people what to do.  No matter what you do, you're criticized.  If you express 'your' feelings, you're a martyr.  If you walk away, you're selfish.  Kim has a disease.  How could you?  She can't win and none of this, Kim's addiction and other problems, are Kyle's fault.

 

I agree with your entire post, especially this paragraph with special mention to the bolded part.  Dammed if you do / dammed if you don't.

 

Thanks zoeysmom for digging out all those old clips.  That must have been quite a job.

 

The following is of course is my own opinion/conjecture since I like everyone here I don’t actually know any of these crazy ass people.

 

During the first season reunion it came out that Big Kathy asked the sisters to take care of each other.  My view is that this does not rule out that she didn’t catch Kyle alone and request that she look after her golden/problem child Kim.  I can totally see that happening.  I can also see where  Kyle may not have felt comfortable bringing that info out for public discussion.  Kyle has made it abundantly clear (and I totally believe her) that Big Kathy’s girls were indoctrinated on keeping family business private and to cover up any issues that come up.  This reunion was after the infamous limo incident when neither of Kyle’s sisters were talking to  her and she no doubt would have felt totally gun shy on more family controversy. 

 

In short one does not rule out the other or in other words both statements may be correct. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Me Too

[rehoboth]

I've never seen any scene where Kyle and Kim talked to each other about this. The only time it's been mentioned has been by Kyle in TH's , and always in reference to Kim's station, as in her addictions. If you were referencing the recent scene this season when Kim and Kyle were talking to each other in the 5, 7, 9 days after Poker Night, as WireWrap wrote, Kim telling Kyle she takes care of her (yea, right) is different than referencing their mother's edict.

 

No, I don't believe it was addressed again on the show.  I think that both Kim and Kyle addressed this separately in the press after season 1.  Kyle mistakenly gave the impression that her mom had saddled her with looking after Kim for the rest of her life.  They both gave out the additional information that Kim was asked to look out for Kathy and Kyle, Kathy was asked to look out for Kim and Kyle, etc...  Kyle was just speaking to her part of the pact.  It seems that Kyle really takes her mother's words to heart.

[VanillaBeanne]

If I were the enabler-in-chief of a substance abusing daughter with four kids and no stable man to support her and I was diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would be pretty worried about what happens to said daughter when I go. Having all three of my daughters make a deathbed promise to take care of each other seems neutral and fair on its face, but if the drugged out daughter can barely take care of herself, it really means the more responsible daughter(s) will be saddled with her.

[motorcitymom65]

She's said "Mom asked me to take care of you too, for us to take care of EACH OTHER."

I think the question is "when"? I have watched every episode, most many more than one time. I can remember no time that they ever had a conversation with each other like this. I remember Kyle saying in her TH that her mom asked her to look after Kim because she was so fragile or something to that effect. I have heard nothing similar from Kim ever. I did hear Kim say to Kyle this season when Kyle came to visit her after she got home from her 5/7/9 day hospital stay, the following: "I have always taken care of you and you have always taken care of me". There was zero mention about the mother in this statement.

[nexxie]

No matter what Big Kathy wanted, Kyle owes it to herself and her family to break free - FLY KYLE!

[PhilMarlowe2]

That would be a great book for Kyle to read! She has mentioned that her mother's "shove it under the rug" approach wasn't helpful, but I wonder how much Kyle has figured out about her family dynamics. I agree, it's impressive how she's built a good life with seemingly healthy relationships in her own family.

 

Seriously - I am always shocked by how functional Kyle seems to be in her life given what the rumor mill has to say about their upbringing. Kim and Kathy seem like absolute messes, but Kyle seems to have created a genuinely stable home for her family despite her streak of rage. I wonder if it has something to do with having been the baby - perhaps Kim and Kathy got more of the brunt of it, and by the time Kyle came along Big Kathy had cooled off some, especially if Kim had fulfilled a lot of her vicarious need for stardom.

[zoeysmom]

Seriously - I am always shocked by how functional Kyle seems to be in her life given what the rumor mill has to say about their upbringing. Kim and Kathy seem like absolute messes, but Kyle seems to have created a genuinely stable home for her family despite her streak of rage. I wonder if it has something to do with having been the baby - perhaps Kim and Kathy got more of the brunt of it, and by the time Kyle came along Big Kathy had cooled off some, especially if Kim had fulfilled a lot of her vicarious need for stardom.

We never hear from any of the Richards sisters they had a bad childhood or their mother was a bad person.  Kim biggest whine is she thinks she was the sole support of the family, which has been proven to be untrue.

 

Big Kathy loved her daughters and her daughters loved her.  Kyle chose to take away the good things she saw in her mother into raising her children.  To Kyle it seemed like it was one big pajama party of girls gathering around to hear the wit and wisdom of Big Kathy and talk of make up and style tips.  Kyle also says she was raised with some degree of affluence.  Kyle also claims that any accomplishment by the sister was applauded by all the sisters.  It is people like Brandi who claim there was all this jealousy on Kyle's part. 

 

Kim was out of the spotlight for many years before Big Kathy died.  They even appeared together in a "Where Are They Now",  segment.  If Big Kathy was living vicariously through anyone I am thinking it was Little Kathy and Paris.  Paris initial fame was a couple of years before Big Kathy's death. 

[LotusFlower]

I think the question is "when"? I have watched every episode, most many more than one time. I can remember no time that they ever had a conversation with each other like this. I remember Kyle saying in her TH that her mom asked her to look after Kim because she was so fragile or something to that effect. I have heard nothing similar from Kim ever. I did hear Kim say to Kyle this season when Kyle came to visit her after she got home from her 5/7/9 day hospital stay, the following: "I have always taken care of you and you have always taken care of me". There was zero mention about the mother in this statement.

Thank you! This is exactly right. And Kyle only talked about her mother's edict in TH's in relation to Kim's alcoholism (and likely other still not disclosed addictions), which she's had her whole adult life. Not in any kind of "family takes care of family" kind of way.

[zoeysmom]

I don't doubt any of that.  My post is about what was said on the show.  I remember Kim correcting Kyle on the show, and I was wondering whether it was when they went to the psychic with that box that had something to do with Big Kathy.  Maybe her letters?

It was Big Kathy and a lock of her hair.  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-1/episode-109/videos?clip=15664579

 

I don't believe it was ever said.  Kim talks more about being there for Kyle (great imagination) but I don't recall Kim saying anything about her mother's wishes.

[Avaleigh]

I think the question is "when"? I have watched every episode, most many more than one time. I can remember no time that they ever had a conversation with each other like this. I remember Kyle saying in her TH that her mom asked her to look after Kim because she was so fragile or something to that effect. I have heard nothing similar from Kim ever. I did hear Kim say to Kyle this season when Kyle came to visit her after she got home from her 5/7/9 day hospital stay, the following: "I have always taken care of you and you have always taken care of me". There was zero mention about the mother in this statement.

I'm curious about when this supposedly happened too. 

 

I also wonder how long ago it was that Kim ever "took care" of Kyle. 

[jenny2682]

That is so, so sweet of you to say, film noire!  Wow, I really appreciate it.  I'm glad to hear that all of my long-winded, word-vomit makes some kinda sense and doesn't just bore everyone to tears.  I always feel like such an dork because the only reason I watch reality shows is because I like the sociology and psychology aspects of it.  I like figuring people out, which includes myself.  RHoBH is so great because it also includes cool homes and pretty, shiny things to look at. 

I do as well. I have had a lot of toxic relationships and was diagnosed with PTSD two years ago. The therapy consensus is a narcissistic mom coupled with a co dependent dad and early trauma made me a walking target for manipulators. I used to watch reality TV for mindless entertainment but now it is fascinating to watch and see and pick out thinking patterns etc. It helps me hone my skills. Two years ago I would have been like oh help Kim and Brandi or various subjects on Intervention and the like. Now I can spot a borderline, narcissist etc I mile away. I have too or my PTSD acts up. And believe me those fuckers smell me from a mile away and try the manipulation.  

 

Topic- changing is hard work. Kyle needs a personal counselor as well as more Ala Non. Plus you know getting rid of people. The hardest thing for her to realize is if she didn't take the bait from Kim and was bored and  nonchalant Kim would freak and eventually give up and find someone new to torture. The drama is what feeds Kim, as well as illicit substances. She is a master manipulator and Kyle has been groomed her entire life to respond to that. She needs to not respond- and she will be fighting everything she has ever learned. Brandi is a raging vindictive borderline and I hope she is gone next year. Evil mental illness is not fun to watch. On scripted drama sure but at the end of the day this is real people with real families and children. Poor Kim and Brandi's kids.

[PhilMarlowe2]

We never hear from any of the Richards sisters they had a bad childhood or their mother was a bad person.  Kim biggest whine is she thinks she was the sole support of the family, which has been proven to be untrue.

 

Big Kathy loved her daughters and her daughters loved her.  Kyle chose to take away the good things she saw in her mother into raising her children.  To Kyle it seemed like it was one big pajama party of girls gathering around to hear the wit and wisdom of Big Kathy and talk of make up and style tips.  Kyle also says she was raised with some degree of affluence.  Kyle also claims that any accomplishment by the sister was applauded by all the sisters.  It is people like Brandi who claim there was all this jealousy on Kyle's part. 

 

Kim was out of the spotlight for many years before Big Kathy died.  They even appeared together in a "Where Are They Now",  segment.  If Big Kathy was living vicariously through anyone I am thinking it was Little Kathy and Paris.  Paris initial fame was a couple of years before Big Kathy's death. 

 

I credit Kyle with creating a loving marriage and home for her family, but she does, IMO, have a mean streak about a mile wide. That rage came from somewhere. She is also very codependent. And Kim is a hot mess of huge proportions based on what we have seen on the show. Per Kyle's own description, major issues were swept under the rug and kept secret. I know there is no way to know what really happened in the Richards household but I personally don't believe Kyle's candy-coated version of their childhood. I have learned through my life experience and through my work that people can be in deep denial about the reality of their childhood upbringing until they're ready to really acknowledge it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by PhilMarlowe2

[zoeysmom]

I credit Kyle with creating a loving marriage and home for her family, but she does, IMO, have a mean streak about a mile wide. That rage came from somewhere. She is also very codependent. And Kim is a hot mess of huge proportions based on what we have seen on the show. Per Kyle's own description, major issues were swept under the rug and kept secret. I know there is no way to know what really happened in the Richards household but I personally don't believe Kyle's candy-coated version of their childhood. I have learned through my life experience and through my work that people can be in deep denial about the reality of their childhood upbringing until they're ready to really acknowledge it.

I am beginning to think the statute of limitations expired for both of them when they turned 40 years old.  Mom was gone by then and if they could not deal with it before then maybe it is worth exploring moving on.

[notnowimbusy]

Kim is a whole bag of crazy.  I remember in one episode, at the white party, when she was with her "boyfriend".  She was mad at Brandi, confronted her, and used very odd language.  She told Brandi she was "a dirty, nasty girl".   She is so stuck in her childhood, I couldn't help but think when I watched that, that those words were spoken to her at some time in her life.  .  It was the way she said them, and used it to shame.     Not  unlike when she was relating that story with Vince, when she said for some role she was required to play tennis, said she could when she knew she couldn't.   Her mother taught her to lie, no matter what.  And I don't doubt when the teenage hormones started, she was called "a dirty, nasty, girl".  

[SCS]

I credit Kyle with creating a loving marriage and home for her family, but she does, IMO, have a mean streak about a mile wide. (Snipped).

Dead on. A huge mean streak. Great assessment.

[zoeysmom]

Kim is a whole bag of crazy.  I remember in one episode, at the white party, when she was with her "boyfriend".  She was mad at Brandi, confronted her, and used very odd language.  She told Brandi she was "a dirty, nasty girl".   She is so stuck in her childhood, I couldn't help but think when I watched that, that those words were spoken to her at some time in her life.  .  It was the way she said them, and used it to shame.     Not  unlike when she was relating that story with Vince, when she said for some role she was required to play tennis, said she could when she knew she couldn't.   Her mother taught her to lie, no matter what.  And I don't doubt when the teenage hormones started, she was called "a dirty, nasty, girl".  

I think the entire group should stop referring to themselves as girls or individually as girl.  Most of them they have at one point used the term mean girl.  Kyle said you are that kind of girl to Brandi as well.  Brandi calls her son little men and a 23 year old she claims to have banged Amsterboy.  So I think it is a bit of a stretch to put these abusive scenario  that would have occurred 40 years ago on the back of a dead woman.

[SwordQueen]

I think the entire group should stop referring to themselves as girls or individually as girl.  Most of them they have at one point used the term mean girl.  Kyle said you are that kind of girl to Brandi as well.  Brandi calls her son little men and a 23 year old she claims to have banged Amsterboy.  So I think it is a bit of a stretch to put these abusive scenario  that would have occurred 40 years ago on the back of a dead woman.

 

I dunno, for me, it's more about the descriptors "dirty" and "nasty" rather than "girl".  if someone is calling me a "dirty, nasty girl", depending on the tone, I'm going to assume that they are either 1) trying to talk dirty to me, to turn me on, or 2) repeating something that someone said to them at one point, which humiliated them.  It's a pretty strange string of words to say to anyone, let alone to another women, also over the age of 40. 

[motorcitymom65]

So, your assumption here is that Lisa V. was actually plotting revenge when she said on the boat in Amsterdam that Kyle was "her girl" ?  And the times she has shown friendship and  support for Kyle over the past couple of episodes are all part of a scheme to trick Kyle into thinking they are mending fences, when, in reality, Lisa V. is coming for her? All part of some master plan to get back at Kyle when she least expects it?  Wouldn't that make Lisa V.  kind of a monster?  Or, at the very least,  wouldn't we all have to say Lisa V does play a chess with other people's emotions and does prey on the weak or, at least, the unsuspecting? Wouldn't that mean that Kyle's long ago remarks about Lisa V were true after all?

First of all BluishGreen, it was really nice to see a post from you in this thread.  You always had some of the most epic posts (I think in NY?) and I always love reading your impressions of the drama. 

 

Yes, I think that if Lisa is just pretending to be friends with Kyle that this would make her a monster. I have also had my issues with Lisa over the years, but have found myself liking her this year, much in the same way I liked her in S1. 

 

More than anything, the thing that is interesting to me in this particular franchise is that we have a lot of history to reflect on. Many of these women have been interacting for 3 or more years, so we don't really have to guess anymore with regard to their behavior. Of course folks change and grow, self-reflect and improve themselves hopefully, but it is rare that someone's true nature changes, especially when they are in their 50's. Despite a lot of the things I have seen in Lisa V, I've never seen anything historically that would prove that she would "pretend" to be friends with someone to get revenge on them. We have seen her do just the opposite. We have seen her basically ignore them when she doesn't want to play anymore. She did it with Adrienne, she pulled back from Kyle in S3 (and she was much more angry with Kyle after the S2 reunion than she was for anything that went down in S4), and we are seeing her do that with Brandi now. Lisa knows that the best way to prove her displeasure is to avoid doing a lot of filming with a HW, certainly filming with them one-on-one. She certainly would have nothing to do with helping them be shown in a positive light, and that is what she has done with Kyle. For all that I believe Kyle would have more good will on her side this year than she has in the past because of how horrible Kim and Brandi are, it is also Lisa's support that is bolstering her. If Lisa was giving her the side-eye, or acting like she is in the wrong in some manner, this whole story would be playing out very differently for Kyle. Lisa is the smartest of this crew, the most shrewd by far. She knows what her approval/disproval means for another HW. She is backing up Kyle 100%, even in times when Kyle has frustated words for Lisa, like she did at the Gay Mixer.

 

Not only that, Lisa is a busy woman. I don't believe at the end of the day that she really cares one way or another about most of this drama, so I cannot see her creating a whole scenario off screen to set Kyle up. There have been many spottings of the two of them out having fun together, either alone or with Ken and Mauricio. The writer of that restaurant review said she spotted them in an out-of-the way booth the night after filming and they seemed very close and friendly. 

 

There was much conversation on some of the forums last year that this was going to be an unpleasant year for anyone who really hated Kyle. I don't mean folks that just don't like her - I mean folks that really hate her - because this was going to be the year when she and Lisa became friends again. The writing was so on the wall at the end of the last season. 

[ryebread]

She was mad at Brandi, confronted her, and used very odd language.  She told Brandi she was "a dirty, nasty girl".   She is so stuck in her childhood, I couldn't help but think when I watched that, that those words were spoken to her at some time in her life.  .  It was the way she said them, and used it to shame.    

 

Good catch and I agree.  When Kyle points at Kim (or Brandi?) at the reunion and says, "You're so mean!"  I expected her to, then, stick out her tongue.  I think they're both stuck in some tortuous pre-teen cycle of angst.  Time to throw mama from the train, ladies.

[zoeysmom]

 

 

 

I dunno, for me, it's more about the descriptors "dirty" and "nasty" rather than "girl".  if someone is calling me a "dirty, nasty girl", depending on the tone, I'm going to assume that they are either 1) trying to talk dirty to me, to turn me on, or 2) repeating something that someone said to them at one point, which humiliated them.  It's a pretty strange string of words to say to anyone, let alone to another women, also over the age of 40. 

Well if it was Brandi she would call someone an old menopausal hag.  Guys and girls are pretty common descriptions for adult groups of people.  Men get pummeled all the time for using the term girls.  For some reason that is how Kim choses to express herself.  Maybe one or both of the two husbands she cheated on called her dirty or nasty.  I just have a hard time blaming the dead mom once again.

Edited March 30, 2015 by zoeysmom

[SoCal4Us]

Well if it was Brandi she would call someone an old menopausal hag.  Guys and girls are pretty common descriptions for adult groups of people.  Men get pummeled all the time for using the term girls.  For some reason that is how Kim choses to express herself.  Maybe one or both of the two husbands she cheated on called her dirty or nasty.  I just have a hard time blaming the dead mom once again.

Don't cha know it's always the mom's fault :)

[msblossom]

I've never seen any scene where Kyle and Kim talked to each other about this. The only time it's been mentioned has been by Kyle in TH's , and always in reference to Kim's station, as in her addictions. If you were referencing the recent scene this season when Kim and Kyle were talking to each other in the 5, 7, 9 days after Poker Night, as WireWrap wrote, Kim telling Kyle she takes care of her (yea, right) is different than referencing their mother's edict.

I actually think I remember a scene or two when they did talk about it. IIRC, it was Season 2 and it was when Kyle and Kim were getting ready for the psychic reading at Kyle's house? The other time was at Kim's house on her deck when Kim was packing to move in with Ken 2.0 -- I don't think these were done in TH's, I believe it was a dialogue between the two sisters and Kathy's name came up too. And all three made a promise to Big Kathy to take care of each other. Or am I dreaming this up? Lol.

[ElsieH]

Big Kathy made Kyle the Executor of her trust so I am inclined to believe that the "take care of Kim", was placed on Kyle's shoulders. 

 

That's another thing I was wondering about.... isn't the oldest child usually appointed executor? Why would Kyle be the one to have to deal with all of that, especially considering Kyle and Kim's conversation at the Palm Springs house about how the baby never had to do anything? Being executor had to have been a huge burden for Kyle, all things considered. Even more so if Kim was in bad shape at the time due to alcohol or drugs, or both.

[msblossom]

I remember Kim and Kyle talking to a psychic a few years ago, bringing a box with them - something to do with their mom.  (Good lord I hope it wasn't big Kathy's ashes!).  Something may have been said then about taking care of each other and the psychic jumped all over it.  I thought, why don't you just hand her your history in a letter and then ask for a reading!

 

I don't remember who said what.  But I do recall Kim correcting Kyle at some point in the past few seasons and telling her that their mom wanted them to take care of each other.

Ah, yes!! I am just seeing this post. I remember this scene pretty clearly and Kim did correct Kyle and say to her that they promised their mother to take care of each other. Not just Kyle taking care of Kim.

I am speaking to this bc as much as I detest Kim, I really detest it when certain posters demand facts/episode dates/blood tests/you-name-it as if they know all, when in fact they are incorrect are aren't humble enough to say so. Just my 2 cents.

[WireWrap]

That's another thing I was wondering about.... isn't the oldest child usually appointed executor? Why would Kyle be the one to have to deal with all of that, especially considering Kyle and Kim's conversation at the Palm Springs house about how the baby never had to do anything? Being executor had to have been a huge burden for Kyle, all things considered. Even more so if Kim was in bad shape at the time due to alcohol or drugs, or both.

It could be as simple as that Kathy had her hands full with her own children at the time, Paris was already a handful at that point, or that Kathy traveled a lot. Kyle was the stay close to home and was stable/reliable sister.

Ah, yes!! I am just seeing this post. I remember this scene pretty clearly and Kim did correct Kyle and say to her that they promised their mother to take care of each other. Not just Kyle taking care of Kim.

I am speaking to this bc as much as I detest Kim, I really detest it when certain posters demand facts/episode dates/blood tests/you-name-it as if they know all, when in fact they are incorrect are aren't humble enough to say so. Just my 2 cents.

I do think their mother told all 3 sister to look after each other, be there for each other, but I do think she asked Kyle to "take care" of Kim because of Kim's addictions.

[msblossom]

It could be as simple as that Kathy had her hands full with her own children at the time, Paris was already a handful at that point, or that Kathy traveled a lot. Kyle was the stay close to home and was stable/reliable sister.

I do think their mother told all 3 sister to look after each other, be there for each other, but I do think she asked Kyle to "take care" of Kim because of Kim's addictions.

I agree, WW.

[zoeysmom]

That's another thing I was wondering about.... isn't the oldest child usually appointed executor? Why would Kyle be the one to have to deal with all of that, especially considering Kyle and Kim's conversation at the Palm Springs house about how the baby never had to do anything? Being executor had to have been a huge burden for Kyle, all things considered. Even more so if Kim was in bad shape at the time due to alcohol or drugs, or both.

Their mother may have felt that Kyle was most likely to carry out her wishes.  Apparently, Kyle took the do not sell my house for 10 years very seriously and the take care of Kim. I think Kyle would do pretty much anything her mother asked and without complaint.  I get the impression Kim has never been good with business affairs.

 

I think the conversation about the baby never having to do anything goes to Kim's pity party and was maybe a way Kim was trying to reach out a bit instead of apologizing or thanking Kyle.  What does she think Kyle has been doing for the last 27 years to take care of her family?  Kim was acting like it was 1976 and Kyle was seven years old or something-very odd.

[ElsieH]

Well, it seems to me like Kim might just be a little resentful that Big Kathy "trusted" Kyle to handle her estate more than the older sisters. Personally, I wouldn't want to do it. Grieving is hard enough without having to deal with all of that, and I'm sure Kathy's estate was much more complicated than say, anyone in my family's would be. But Kim is kind of self centered and I think that just added fuel to the "you stole my GD house" thing. For all of Brandi claiming Kyle is jealous of Kim, I think it is the other way around.

 

Oh, and I agree that Kyle has a mean streak. I think she's gotten better at hiding it, but I think it is still there.

[psychoticstate]

She's said "Mom asked me to take care of you too, for us to take care of EACH OTHER." 

 

And we know that Kim never lies or exaggerates the truth.

 

I've watched this show from day one and I came into it as a fan of Kim's.  I hate to say that I am no longer a fan of hers because I find her delusional, narcissistic and flat out rude.   From the first season she has leaned on Kyle (I remember her having to be out of her rental in two weeks and having nowhere to go and Kyle worrying over it) and I can't recall any instances where she has been sincerely supportive of her sister.  Everything has been about Kim.  And Kyle HAS had her back.

 

Whether you like Kyle or not, whether you find her a famewhore or not, you have to have sympathy for her and for her family.  She didn't ask to deal with an addict or choose to.  I imagine that when Kim is in the Umanskys' lives, it's nothing but being up and down constantly, never knowing what Kim they will deal with that day, worrying about her kids, worrying about getting a phone call in the middle of the night.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

I may stand alone on this but I think Big Kathy was wrong, wrong, wrong to tell Kyle (or Little Kathy, if it had been her) to take care of and look out for Kim.  It's one thing to tell all your children together to look out for each other but she singled out Kyle and put an unhealthy and unfair amount of responsibility on her.  I think that's primarily why Kyle can't let go - - she feels as though she would be disrespecting her mother's last wish and letting her down if she doesn't follow through with Kim.  Maybe Big Kathy should have told Kim she wanted her to stop drinking and drugging.  Let Kim feel the disappointment if she doesn't follow through.  But once again, Kim gets a pass because Kim is Kim, Kim is an addict, Kim needs help, etc. 

 

I'm not lessening the seriousness of addiction but Kim is 50 years old and Kyle did not cause her addiction.  Neither did Kyle force Kim into working full-time when she was a child.  I think Kim has a lot of unresolved resentment about her childhood and maybe even toward her mother that she takes out on Kyle.

 

For all of these reasons I feel terrible for Kyle.  I'm not a huge fans of hers necessarily but she doesn't deserve the hand she's been given when it comes to Kim.

[msblossom]

Their mother may have felt that Kyle was most likely to carry out her wishes.  Apparently, Kyle took the do not sell my house for 10 years very seriously and the take care of Kim. I think Kyle would do pretty much anything her mother asked and without complaint.  I get the impression Kim has never been good with business affairs.

 

I think the conversation about the baby never having to do anything goes to Kim's pity party and was maybe a way Kim was trying to reach out a bit instead of apologizing or thanking Kyle.  What does she think Kyle has been doing for the last 27 years to take care of her family?  Kim was acting like it was 1976 and Kyle was seven years old or something-very odd.

And also, maybe Big Kathy knows how loyal Kyle is, to a fault. She carried out her mother's wishes to the tune of her own expense, both emotionally and financially.

Kim is very odd. I guess being odd is never having to say 'I'm sorry'. Lol.

[Trooper York]

I think Big Kathy told Kyle to look out for Kim's dog. She just didn't listen or hear it right. I think her hair got in her ears or something.

[rehoboth]

I think the entire group should stop referring to themselves as girls or individually as girl.  Most of them they have at one point used the term mean girl.  Kyle said you are that kind of girl to Brandi as well.  Brandi calls her son little men and a 23 year old she claims to have banged Amsterboy.  So I think it is a bit of a stretch to put these abusive scenario  that would have occurred 40 years ago on the back of a dead woman.

 

You win the internet today!  Love that name!!

[SwordQueen]

  I just have a hard time blaming the dead mom once again.

 

Dead Sigmund Freud would be able to help you with that.  LOL  

[rho]

That's another thing I was wondering about.... isn't the oldest child usually appointed executor? Why would Kyle be the one to have to deal with all of that, especially considering Kyle and Kim's conversation at the Palm Springs house about how the baby never had to do anything? Being executor had to have been a huge burden for Kyle, all things considered. Even more so if Kim was in bad shape at the time due to alcohol or drugs, or both.

I can't remember where it was but someone mentioned that naming Kyle the executor was more of a statistical thing, since she's the youngest, she's likely to live longer. This is just speculation of course, and it's possible that Kathy and/or Kim where once listed as the executor but the reins were handed to Kyle when BK deemed her responsible enough.

Personally I think it's a horrible position to be put in. I hardly want to deal with my own finances, much less someone else's. But at the end of the day I think Kyle was the right one for the job. Say what you will about her but in coparison to her sisters, she seems to be the one most in touch with reality and probably the most likely to manage her own finances (and Kim's as well). I get the impression that Kathy outsources all that sort of housekeeping.

[MatildaMoody]

That's another thing I was wondering about.... isn't the oldest child usually appointed executor? Why would Kyle be the one to have to deal with all of that, especially considering Kyle and Kim's conversation at the Palm Springs house about how the baby never had to do anything? Being executor had to have been a huge burden for Kyle, all things considered. Even more so if Kim was in bad shape at the time due to alcohol or drugs, or both.

I don't know if there is a "usual" for this type of thing. Parents tend to know their kids and what they are capable of, even when the kids in question don't want to admit it sometimes. Kathy probably saw Kyle as the most stable of her children. Since Kathy Hilton was travelling a great deal, and Kim didn't even own a home and had had so many divorces and there was also the addiction issues. 

 

A good friend of mine recently lost her father. Her mother is still living and she has an older brother. When her father was diagnosed with cancer, both of her parents sat her down and told her that she would be executor of both estates. She was angry because she believed that this was a job for her older brother or her mother. Since her mother was getting older (no less quick witted though), they both decided it wouldn't be a good idea for her to be the executor - especially since she would be grieving her husband of 3 decades. So they knew that it would have to be one of the children. And, they just didn't trust her brother to respect their wishes. Not that he is a bad guy, but he simply isn't the more responsible of the two children. 

 

They figured that he would just ignore all of the responsibility if it were left to him to take care of it. So, she relented. Her father passed 3 years ago, and she is still sorting out things that concern her mother and medical treatments as well as getting the estate in order so that her mother receives the monies that are coming to her. And she dreads having to do the same for her mother once she passes, but she accepted the responsibility because she knew her parents were right. Her brother would never take care of the things necessary. 

 

It really is a big burden to put on a loved one, but at the same time it shows a really big level of trust that they will respect your final wishes are carried out. From the way things worked out it seems that Big Kathy made the right choice.

[notnowimbusy]

I wonder if who the executor named came as a surprise to them?  It would be interesting to know, since Kim still seems to be stinging from having Kyle named.  I think she would have been happier if it had been Kathy.   It's just one more thing that screams that Kyle is more stable, responsible, and for whatever reason Big Kathy (or her attorney's advised her) that Kim just couldn't handle it.     Yikes, I'd hate to think of what Kim would have done with anything left by her mother, especially in the condition she was in when her mom died. 

 

Have to add - it you are making out a will, PLEASE make a decision, and don't make it co-executors!   Horrible.   It's bad enough having to wade through mountains of paperwork, the sale of property, etc.  But if you have to make sure two people are available at the same time to sign papers, get things notarized, file claims, having two people is a nightmare.   When my MIL passed, she never wanted to play favorites, so my husband & his sister were named co-executors.   The burden for figuring things out fell to us, but trying to coordinate all the stuff was like doing all the work twice.