Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Carolyn15]

I have been watching the United Bates of America. They just seem a bit more fun than the Duggars. They are way more affectionate too.

It has been kind of fun watching them..

[Marigny]

TFDW is a real shit to his wife, but I saw an old show recently where they were visited by the Smuggers, and he had more "challenges" for Josh and himself.  They some ATV riding, with TFDW looking utterly insane, and then he had to get his hands on Josh and wrestle him into the mud.  That must have been so squishy feeling for Waller.  BTW, "challenge" is another term I've grown to hate due to the association with the fundie world on TV.

Sounds like someone was trying really hard to prove he's manly. 

[floridamom]

Has anyone seen that video of Priscilla trying to speak for 4 minutes about "encouraging her husband"? It's painful to watch and to have to listen to. That poor girl is just somewhere else. I really think that there is some developmental delay in her which her parents purposely ignore. She's perfect for David, who really doesn't want a wife to "have a clue" about anything. He can rule the roost and pretend to be the rooster in the henhouse. He treats her poorly, IMO, from what I have seen, dragging her, while quite pregnant, all around the world, and now even a "swim challenge" in a lake while heavily pregnant? What the hell is wrong with that man? Even more so, what the hell is wrong with her mother? Doesn't Mrs. Kellar believe that God gave us parents to protect us....ALL during our lives? She must know that her daughter is "simple minded" therefore, needs some more protection. Priscilla's statements are rambling, and she is struggling to make sense. She sound like a 6 year old. Sad and painful to watch....anyone else out there agree?

BTW, after listening to that video, I don't want to hear the word "encourage" any time soon again! Lost count of the times it was used, and sorry, please forgive me God, but the word "Lord" is so overly used also that it's nauseating.

[Fuzzysox]

Since the Kellers married off their daughter to a Godly man I don't think they really see what he is doing to her. Mr. Keller seems the same way, simple minded if you have ever seen him talk. Doubt they know there is a delay.

 

As for David I've said it forever that David got married to quell the whispers. He clearly looks like he has learned to pray the gay away but not the fabulousness. JMHO

[trimthatfat]

Can anyone remind me who/what TFDW is?

[Absolom]

The fabulous David Waller.

[trimthatfat]

Oh, thanks!

[floridamom]

BTW, I have been watching The Bates TV show. When it was originally on, it was cancelled before I even knew they were there.

There are my observations:

This family is of the same belief system as the Duggars, but they are more likeable and the parents seem to be real parents to their children, age appropriately, too.

Gil Bates does not make sex jokes or inuendoes at or about his wife and their private life.(so not Jim Bob)

Kelly Jo doesn't seem to be a stranger to the pots, pans and the stove. She actually cooks herself over pots with boiling water. (So not Michelle)

She also speaks like a grown up woman. (so not Michelle)

Kelly actually holds her own children on her own hip. (so not Michelle)

Kelly teaches and instructs her children in a grown up, but age appropriate manner, about behavior AND table manners. She doesn't want her kids putting their heads and HAIR all over the table.(take notes Michelle)

Gil seems to actually have fun with his children and expresses emotion and warmth towards his kids.

No side hugging here.

I know it's just a glimpse into who they are, but they are a bit more refreshing than  wide-eyed, looking in awe at everyone, Michelle.

[lottiedottie]

I was floored by the hotel room configurations that the Bateses had for their trip that was shown in the episode I saw this morning. Girls in one room, boys in another and then mom and dad took some of the little ones while a couple of the older girls took the others. See that, Michelle? Mom and dad look after the little ones, you know...like parents do?

[andromeda331]

I know it's just a glimpse into who they are, but they are a bit more refreshing than wide-eyed, looking in awe at everyone, Michelle.

 

 

 

They really are more refreshing I wonder if I would think the same way if their show would have continue but I'm honestly enjoying the Bates tv show. When they were interviewing the older kids about crushes on the episode today. The kids were funny and making jokes. They were at the Big Sandy conference and admit that its a good place for potential crushes because they were around so many different people so there is a chance for one of them to like someone. Then Zach jokes that he's surrounded by twelve boys so for him not so much. They all spoke so naturally about it, especially when Erin and one of her sisters (Alyssa?) were talking more about it then Erin stays she isn't going to say anything more that might incriminate her. What made that funny and normal was Erin sounded like she was going to keep going or had someone in mind but stopped the way anyone with brothers and/or sisters would because they realized they were about to admit or say something that would result in teasing from their brothers and sisters if/when they realized their sister has a crush on a boy. 

 

[cereality]

The Bates have the same world views as the Duggars, but they are a different type of family -- more "normal" (for their world), more loving, and just more "real," for lack of better words. You see it in how the Bates kids interact -- teasing about crushes etc. the way all brothers and sisters do. You see it in how the Bates parents act. They seem to know each kid, as opposed to the Duggar who view every kid as number 12 or number 17. Gil jokes around with the kids like normal dads do. When Erin's wedding was shown, he was imitating/mocking Erin who had been crying to her parents about leaving home and not having her sisters around; when Gil said -- well you can come back and stay here whenever you want, he mocked her "but it won't be the saaaammme" crying reaction. Very endearing. Same way he was lamenting about feeling like an empty nester because Alyssa is so far away on the Nightline special. It doesn't seem to be stuff that Gil and Kelly say for the camera, it just seems to be how they interact with the kids. And you see Kelly actually cooking, teaching the kids etc. At all 3 weddings so far, Gil had a sleepy/tired toddler glued to his shoulder like all parents have experienced; I feel like if it was the Duggars, they'd hand the child off to a sister so as to be able to get good photo ops of themselves. I just think Gil and Kelly act more real and honest; Kelly may like the attention of having 19 kids, but has said that as she's gotten older, she relies on an epidural to give birth. I'm sure Michelle would never do that and would never want to admit that she needed "help" -- delivering blessings is what she does and she wouldn't admit any "weakness" in her ability to do so.

 

I also think there is some encouragement for the Bates kids to be individuals within their limited beliefs. They have kids who have been county commissioner, worked for a florist, taken college classes, taught music lessons, worked as paid nannies for other families, and worked on music projects. It seems like the kids have some friends beyond their siblings; one of the teens (maybe Alyssa?) had a birthday party and the guests were mostly other teens -- as Gil was saying they always end up staying too late and playing too much music when teens get together. I'm sure they believe in gender roles but it seems to be less strict than the Duggars. I think Alyssa is the one that likes hunting, and for one of her birthdays she went hunting with her dad. I don't know if JB would think it was ok to take Joy Anna hunting as it's too tom-boyish and un lady-like. I feel like if Joy Anna asked for that as a birthday activity, they'd set up a nice tea party or make-over day instead, not considering that that child has zero interest in those things. The Duggars have a more restricted "girls should like this" and "boys should like that" view -- maybe because they don't know their kids as well and just try to fill in those blanks along boy vs. girl lines.

[realityfan26]

Could it be that the "normalcy" on the Bates of America is the reason it was cancelled? It's too mundane. I watch 19 kids mostly out of curiosity to see what outlandish thing they do next!

[floridamom]

From what I have seen of the Bates's TV show, all of their children seem to be genuinely happy. The Duggar children, however, IMO, who seem to not be happy nor do they have much joy at all are: Jana, John David, Joseph, Josiah and Joy Anna. Their parents should take the time to actually observe and think about this group and do more than send then to indoctrination camp. Maybe tend to their own personal needs for once. What do you all think? Have you noticed the same in these adult/kids?

[DangerousMinds]

Except for Joy Anna, all of those kids mentioned are legal adults. IMO it's time for them to figure out what might make them happy and try and make that happen.

[LazyToaster]

I wonder if any of the adult kids still at home, with maybe the exception of JD, have any idea how to support themselves.  That alone will keep them "down on the farm". 

 

Even if any of them would like to strike out on their own, since they haven't been educated beyond the home schooling and with little or no work experience, they probably would not know where to start.  They can't just walk to town and say "I'm free", they would need to have a plan, a job, a clue... a life. 

[cereality]

The difference is that the Bates kids all seem to pursue their interests when they become of age. I'm not suggesting they get to pursue a dream interest -- like being a doctor or something -- bc they are also under-educated, but at least they get off the compound and go work for city gov't if they want to.

 

I think Jana, Joy Anna, Josiah, and Jinger seem unhappy. I think JD is fine -- he has his own life -- a towing business, a constable gig, and is able to fly a plane some; all of that at least allows him out of the house and allows some interaction with the rest of society. As for Joseph -- he seems to be content for now just lazying around the house, working out, and doing some odd jobs for JB or JD. He doesn't seem particularly ambitious. I'm sure he'll set up a business or start working for John David full time when it is time to court and support a family, but he doesn't strike me as someone who wants a different way of life.

 

Jana's frustration at being the mom of the 16 kids at home is palpable despite her "keeping sweet" demeanor. We don't see enough of her spunk or attitude to know what she really wants, but it's clear that she doesn't want what she has. It's possible that she doesn't want for college or a profession -- she may be happy being a wife and stay home mom to 2-5 kids of her own, but I get the sense she DOES want friends. She'd be a much happier person if she could have girlfriends to relate to, joke around with etc -- people who weren't putting her down for her marital status like Anna. I feel like being around strong women would bring her out of her shell some and just allow her to experience some joy.

 

Joy Anna, Josiah, and Jinger all want a totally different type of life. Josiah has said he wants to study accounting; I can see him wanting a job like Derick's and that isn't going to happen if he's studying accounting online. He seems defeated because he probably knows that the closest he'll get to that role is being a book keeper for whatever businesses JB sets up for Josh, Ben, Joseph, and whatever other sons-in-law come along needing employment. That's a far cry from a 4 yr college and a corporate office for a Fortune 500. Jinger and Joy Anna just seem like they never bought into the whole fundie goal for women -- marry young and raise as many babies as possible. I don't know what they want, but they both seem like the types who'd want to go away to college -- experience having roommates, having debates with classmates, etc. I can see both of them in a big city (not necessarily NYC big but medium cities like Dallas or Atlanta) as 20-somethings trying to make it in their chosen professions.

 

For those who say -- they're over 18, it's their own fault for not doing it. They have no money of their own. They have no support outside the compound because they are so isolated. And they are really under-educated. Even if one of them decided -- I'm going away to a 4 yr college on my own, the reality is JB and Michelle wouldn't pay so they'd need merit scholarships. I shudder to think of what their SAT scores would look like. I also think they'd have NO idea where to begin -- applications, essays, financial aid etc. and because they are so isolated, it's not like they have non-fundie peers who could guide them through the process. Now they do have Derick, but the reality is that Jill is very firmly entrenched in the fundie world and I'm sure would strongly discourage her husband from putting ideas in her siblings' heads about -- hey I know this school in Chicago isn't top ranked but they give a ton of merit scholarships and you could get a 4 yr degree while living in a big city.

[Sew Sumi]

Speaking of Joseph Duggar, Bates family instagram this past week places him at their place for over a week. I bring this up because Tori Bates was part of a traveling party that visited the Duggars last month (accompanied by The Bank of Lawson and Trace). The way Gil has been marrying off his daughters to fundie royalty (IBLP Board, charter member, and IBLP Congressman), I could see him pairing up Tori with Joe. Man, this sounds like Pride and Prejudice! LOL

 

Yes, they're young, but remember Alyssa was engaged to John Webster last year when she was about the same age as Tori now (she's 19 in December, if memory serves; Joe turns 20 in January). Joe has been pretty much on his own for years now, working construction with JD and for Boob from what I've been able to ascertain. If there is something afoot, we're still looking at a wedding maybe a year away; if Boob accepted Bin with no visible means of support, he should let Joe pursue a girl if he wants.

[cereality]

Speaking of Joseph Duggar, Bates family instagram this past week places him at their place for over a week. I bring this up because Tori Bates was part of a traveling party that visited the Duggars last month (accompanied by The Bank of Lawson and Trace). The way Gil has been marrying off his daughters to fundie royalty (IBLP Board, charter member, and IBLP Congressman), I could see him pairing up Tori with Joe. Man, this sounds like Pride and Prejudice! LOL

 

Yes, they're young, but remember Alyssa was engaged to John Webster last year when she was about the same age as Tori now (she's 19 in December, if memory serves; Joe turns 20 in January). Joe has been pretty much on his own for years now, working construction with JD and for Boob from what I've been able to ascertain. If there is something afoot, we're still looking at a wedding maybe a year away; if Boob accepted Bin with no visible means of support, he should let Joe pursue a girl if he wants.

I'm not sure if the Bates like the Duggars that much -- despite all their proclamations of friendship. Though who knows. I think Joseph seems like one of the less "harmful" ones -- I don't see him turning into Josh who wants to be a politician or a Jill/Derick who want a tv/People magazine empire because he doesn't seem that outgoing. I see him being more like a JD or Chad Paine -- working hard at a construction job and perfectly content with his fundie life, his 6 kids, and not questioning the world in any way. From a profession or providing standpoint, I think the Bates would be ok with him as a son in law. He will likely make a living in construction or in the trades and they have been ok with other sons in law doing that -- Chad works at a metals company; John is in the air conditioning business with his brothers. It's an honest living from the sweat of your brow where you likely work for other conservative Christians (just given the location) and have zero chance of having female bosses or co-workers.

[DangerousMinds]

For all these guys with minimal education who go into physical professions, like construction, what would they do if they became ill or disabled for some reason? And with big families and wives not allowed to work either?

[Micks Picks]

Those kids have had years of traveling around the country, appearing on tv shows, doing magazine spreads, being in recording studios, and being filmed by crews in their own home.  They have had plenty of opportunity to see people, including women, working.  Some of the kids have an interest in photography and lighting.  They could learn and see themselves in many different jobs, just as we all do.  Their chances have been increased in many ways.  I remain shocked that they don't take advantage of the routes they see, even on the sly.  Granted they'd have to hide it from the spies, but it could be done.  Amy is another source of a good life lived in another way in another place, even in a city.

[floridamom]

Even though the Duggar children have SEEN women and other adults actually working in real fields out there, remember what their parents have told them to be true: that these people are sinners and ARE SINNING in doing so. It would be a separation from God and from their families if they were to do such a thing themselves. I shudder to think what Jim Bob and Michelle really think of the female servers in restaurants, the female cashiers in WalMart and Aldi who check them out at the register..do they actually have spiritual disdain for these people? Do they believe those people to be sinning working outside the home? My guess would be a "YES" because it is viewed as wrong for their own daughters to be doing the same. It disgusts me to think this, but it's logical and probably true, IMO.

[BitterApple]

I've always wondered why there's never been a Bates/Duggar courtship. Both families certainly have their fair share of good-looking kids, so given how often they see each other you'd think it would only be logical for some mutual attractions to develop. The Bates girls do seem rather prissy however, so I don't know if they would go for a guy like Joseph or JD. I could see one of them with Josiah, who's more of a clean-cut, pretty boy type.

[Fostersmom]

If I were either set of parents, I'd discourage any courtships with the kids. All the kids seem to be friends. If there was a broken courtship, it would likely highly impact all the friendships. 

[cereality]

How come these kids never pursue anything with parental involvement? I agree that neither set of parents should encourage a courtship -- esp the Duggars -- their kids have so few friends that they don't need a situation where the boys aren't hanging out/speaking because Lawson took a piece of Jinger's heart but didn't marry her. Nor does there need to be lifelong resentment if they were to end up in a situation where one family knew the courtship was a bad idea but felt pushed into engagement and marriage because the other side pressured (kind of like Ben's family) and they didn't want to offend lifelong friends.

 

However, these kids see each other reasonably regularly -- at least 2-3 times a yr it seems. If two of them liked each other, started talking, texting etc. -- wouldn't that could as a de facto courtship where the two could decide whether this was for them or not? Then they could go to their parents saying -- we have decided to marry, let us get engaged. I know texts etc. are monitored but I was under the impression that was only when you are in an official "get to know you" or courtship period. I don't imagine every text coming into that home from any friend goes to Mom and Dad's phone too. Normal teenagers sneak around all the time. It wouldn't be so hard for say Joseph to be texting Tori or Carlin and frankly he's out of the house (it seems) for construction jobs and to workout in his garage gym -- he could even be calling them on the sly without his entire family knowing that he was talking to a girl.

[BuddyMom]

I hope JD/Joseph/Josiah are calling or texting girls when they're away from their parents. That would be a completely normal thing for young men to do. Unfortunately I have my doubts because if they were caught, they would likely end up back at ALERT. Poor kids. They must be so frustrated. Probably why Joseph is always working out.

[cereality]

I wonder how the Bates home functions and whether there are kids that really drink the kool aid and will report every infraction to mom and dad, or whether it is one where every kid is encouraged to have his/her own relationship with God without fear of mom and dad, being sent to Alert etc. From what little we've seen, it doesn't seem like there is an element of fear in the Bates family -- it seems like a relatively fun family, though who knows what is true.

 

As for the Duggars, I don't get why the kids don't work together more. There are only 2 parents who are pretty much checked out; Jill and Josh were the real kool aid drinkers and they're gone. If Joseph decides he wants to talk to a Bates daughter, how hard would it be to bring Josiah to his gym under the guise of needing a work out buddy. Meanwhile he can jump on the phone for 45 min with Josiah as a lookout who can throw something at him if he sees the parents coming; heck they could build a little library of contraband books out there which I'm sure Amy or Grandma would purchase for them and Josiah could use his lookout time to read science books or finance books or whatever he likes. The Bates kids seem "close" like that. I think it was shown that Carlin and Erin are really close and Carlin kept breaking down when thinking about E's wedding. I feel like now that Erin is out of the house, if Carlin told her she really wanted some book to read and gave her cash for it -- presuming it wasn't about sex or something -- I can see Erin buying it and discreetly handing it off without reporting to her parents that Carlin wanted to read about science.

[Fuzzysox]

Can we please have a  Seewalds thread. Since they will be the new in laws I feel they need their own thread so we can easily snark without having to wade through a 100 posts. Oh and Michael Seewald is krazy. His latest rambling blog post proves it.

[Carolyn15]

BTW, I have been watching The Bates TV show. When it was originally on, it was cancelled before I even knew they were there.

There are my observations:

This family is of the same belief system as the Duggars, but they are more likeable and the parents seem to be real parents to their children, age appropriately, too.

Gil Bates does not make sex jokes or inuendoes at or about his wife and their private life.(so not Jim Bob)

Kelly Jo doesn't seem to be a stranger to the pots, pans and the stove. She actually cooks herself over pots with boiling water. (So not Michelle)

She also speaks like a grown up woman. (so not Michelle)

Kelly actually holds her own children on her own hip. (so not Michelle)

Kelly teaches and instructs her children in a grown up, but age appropriate manner, about behavior AND table manners. She doesn't want her kids putting their heads and HAIR all over the table.(take notes Michelle)

Gil seems to actually have fun with his children and expresses emotion and warmth towards his kids.

No side hugging here.

I know it's just a glimpse into who they are, but they are a bit more refreshing than  wide-eyed, looking in awe at everyone, Michelle.

I totally agree. They really seemed like caring loving family where the parents do the raising and not their buddy.   

[BitterApple]

Oddly enough, it seems like side hugs are more of a Duggar/Keller thing. On the episode where Zach asks Sarah to court and she says yes, Sarah's father embraced her in a full frontal hug and held her for a few moments. It was actually really sweet and nice to see that not all Fundies are traumatized by physical contact with their relatives.

[farmgal4]

Does anyone know what the scandal/secret was concerning Gil Bates? Whatever it was happened several years ago and was alluded to by some posters on TWOP but nobody would ever come out and say what happened. I've always wondered what the in secret was.

[Fostersmom]

I've never heard of a scandal involving Gil. Or even seen one alluded to. 

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Zach and Whitney's baby registry has mostly practical things. Looks like Winnie the Pooh is the theme, which is also practical for the first child. It's neutral enough for boys or girls, so they could get good use out of it. Good on them.

[charmed1]

One of the old 17 Kids and Counting episodes was on this morning. The Bates were visiting the Duggars. Gil Bates was talking about how they keep magazines and internet out of their house lest they tempt their kids with all their I'm assuming, sinfulness? But they do allow the kids to go to the library.

But I'm wondering if he's ever stepped inside a library because that little section named Periodicals is all about magazines and newspapers, Gil. And I'm not sure about Arkansas, but when I borrow books online from my local library, the most popular list is always filled with porn DVDs.

And this little speech about temptation and what not was spliced in right after the scene of him meeting cousin Amy. Hee.

Edited August 29, 2014 by charmed1

[Zahdii]

...I'm not sure about Arkansas, but when I borrow books online from my local library, the most popular list is always filled with porn DVDs.

You can borrow books online?  How does that work?  I have a difficult time making it to my local library, so this sounds intriguing.

[charmed1]

Zahdii I download e-books from the local library to my iPad. Just punch in the number on my library card. Saves me from all those overdue library fees I used to always get.

[Fuzzysox]

I think Kelly makes more of an effort to get to know people on a one on one basis and become friends with them thus having good luck finding the perfect mate for their daughters vs. Bitchelle who only is ever seen taking pictures with people but she really doesn't make close friends with anyone.

[cereality]

I honestly think people probably also take the Bates family more "seriously" -- meaning they are likely seen as a family that is living their testimony. The Duggars are on TV, making money from books, on book tours etc. and that probably scares a lot of the decent fundie suitors off. If they want to live according to what they believe, they probably don't want to consider marrying into a family that's on TV and may expect them to participate in the TV empire. They may also just not like how "in your face" JB and Michelle are; the Bates seem like they are probably more reasonable as inlaws. Of their married daughters so far, only Chad seems like he'll be living in town for a while or forever -- I don't see Gil trying to control Chad; he has his own job and seems to spend his weekends with his wife doing whatever they please. I'm not sure if the Duggars are that easy going as in laws. Maybe with Derick because he had his own life prior to Jill and may not be showing up every weekend to dance to JB's tune, but they practically own Ben.

[andromeda331]

I'm not sure if the Duggars are that easy going as in laws. Maybe with Derick because he had his own life prior to Jill and may not be showing up every weekend to dance to JB's tune, but they practically own Ben.

 

 

Given how they treat Anna, that's probably true. Michelle resents and hates it every time Anna announces she's pregnant. JimBob makes her go on a bus tour despite being very close to delivery. You know he was hoping she'd give birth on the bus or somewhere on the tour. Showing up with in minutes after she gave birth being loud and obnoxious, without any consideration too the poor girl who just spent hours in labor and you know just gave birth. Or you know giving the actual parents time with their new baby. Making the stop to pick up Michelle who doesn't care while she's in labor, Making the poor girl sleep in the RV or what ever with three small children including her newborn just days after giving birth and without any of the baby stuff? Also, did anyone else think the picture they had of Anna during their opening rundown of the family in the pink shirt was most unflattering? 

[Micks Picks]

I know it's appalling the way they treat Anna.  But the last baby was just a couple of months old in one of the episodes last season and she was going on and on about having yet another one.  So I don't feel sorry for her anymore.

[juneday]

I know it's appalling the way they treat Anna.  But the last baby was just a couple of months old in one of the episodes last season and she was going on and on about having yet another one.  So I don't feel sorry for her anymore.

Probably a product of listening to Michelle talking like that all of the time, or Josh pushing having another baby on her. Or maybe she just wants to, but she seems kind of overwhelmed with just three children, to me.

[mimionthebeach]

Probably a product of listening to Michelle talking like that all of the time, or Josh pushing having another baby on her. Or maybe she just wants to, but she seems kind of overwhelmed with just three children, to me.

I think it's just the brainwashing. You prove your godliness by catching blessings. I actually don't think Josh would be pushing her. Hadn't he said at some point that if god only sent 2 or 3 blessings, he'd be fine with that. As the eldest, he's seen the whole circus from the beginning, including Michelle's breakdown. Anna's struggling with three. If he's really loves her (and I believe he does) I think he'll leave it up to her or even suggest they slow down a bit.

Michelle and Boob on the other hand, welcomed her into the family to Make More Duggars.

[Fostersmom]

Out of all the older kids, I've always thought that Josh was the one most concerned about Michelle's health and seems to have the closest relationship with her. Even the older girls seem to have distant and cold relationships, more like she's a neighbor or friend they are concerned about rather than a parent. I don't see Josh wanting the same kind of life for himself or Anna and unfortunately, it seems Anna wants nothing more than to live the same life. I think it's going to be more apparent as we meet more courting partners, their families, and see more Bates spouses. Already, Anna doesn't fit with Derick or Ben and her family certainly doesn't fit with their either. 

[lottiedottie]

Out of all the older kids, I've always thought that Josh was the one most concerned about Michelle's health and seems to have the closest relationship with her. Even the older girls seem to have distant and cold relationships, more like she's a neighbor or friend they are concerned about rather than a parent. I don't see Josh wanting the same kind of life for himself or Anna and unfortunately, it seems Anna wants nothing more than to live the same life. I think it's going to be more apparent as we meet more courting partners, their families, and see more Bates spouses. Already, Anna doesn't fit with Derick or Ben and her family certainly doesn't fit with their either. 

Anna probably wants the life because it is her only chance at having any relevance as a human being. If they fade into obscurity (not if, when) no one will give a shit about them and whatever number of kids they have. But if she keeps towing the line and popping out kids then maybe someone will find her interesting enough to keep them "famous". I imagine the alternative life of relative obscurity when this show ends is very unappealing. It will just be her, Josh and their gaggle of kids. No fun/interesting trips, no cameras, no attention. No one will pay poor Anna the least bit of attention.

 

My husband used to be in a band with a guy who was famous-like in the 70s. He told my husband that once you have a taste of fame, you spend the rest of your life chasing that feeling. I suspect even for fundie baby makers it isn't much different.

[Almost 3000]

I'm sure Anna and Smuggar will still be considered fundy royalty within their circles after the show goes away. They, but probably just Smuggar, will still get a few gigs at conferences and workshops and be honored at homeschool events. The fame won't end with the show it will just shift.

[BitterApple]

The difference I see between Anna and Michelle is that I don't think Anna's body will be able to tolerate that many pregnancies. Both Michelle and Kelly Bates have stocky, sturdy frames whereas Anna is naturally petite. I fear if she keeps having babies in quick succession, something could go seriously wrong during one of the deliveries.

[floridamom]

Well, I believe in God's protection in our lives if we ask Him for it, however, I still look both ways before I cross the street so I don't get hit by a car while crossing. These idiots don't consider any of their own common sense or using the brains that God gave them to discern their own lives as He will protect them from anything going wrong. I have stated here before the notice that Michelle is a "larger, stronger boned woman" than Anna. Anna is a small boned woman, regardless of the weight she has retained from her pregnancies. No one, absolutely no one in their belief system takes anything into consideration here. They are all cookie cutter lifestyles. All it is to them is a race FOR conception.. look at Jill...leaving it up to God is an obvious joke. They don't do that at all.

I also believe that Michelle is going through the hormone marathon of her life. With menopause upon her and YES, having non-stop pregnancy hormones in her body for decades, she is doing a double tailspin. It is obvious to me on those "Dishing With".. segments....her face and eyes are vacant, her voice is barely there, losing weight, and she is quite uncomfortable with her kids...

These boys are the dumbest ones I have ever heard...(example?) She asked them what was the best thing about having the Bates family over their house? One actually responded "Candy". These kids seem to be addicted to candy and junk food. The other two boys gave a similarly stupid answer to the question. I also couldn't quite understand them vey well, as they don't seem to speak in full sentences and it gets worse as the younger kids try to articulate themselves. I also think that Josie should put an end to her imaginary "fight" with those invisible flies she keeps trying to swat and stop smacking herself in the face.. Any other takes on these things guys?

[BitterApple]

It's funny because when Josiah was having his graduation party, the camera crew asked the boys what they liked most about him. Their response was he gives them lots of candy. I hope JimBob is getting a group rate at his dentist.

 

I was watching the replay of Erin's wedding last night and I found a couple of things odd. Jill and Jana were doing a talking head where they remarked about being best friends with Erin for years, but I didn't get that same vibe on Erin's end. Neither girl was asked to be in the wedding and it's not like the two of them went down to Tennessee ahead of the rest of the family to lend a hand in preparations. I also thought Jana seemed really subdued and sad, like she really didn't want to be there. It just circled back to a comment made upthread where someone remarked that the Bates don't seem to be particularly fond of the Duggars. 

[Zahdii]

The Duggars are actually the worst example of "letting God decide" on the number of children a family has.  Gothard starts out by saying no birth control, just enjoy yourselves and what happens, happens.  He even dictates a waiting period before resuming sexual relations after the birth of a child.  But his waiting period is longer after having a girl than if a boy was delivered.  He handpicked these waiting periods from the Old Testament.  The reason for waiting longer to wait longer for a girl?  Because somehow having a girl is dirtier than having a boy.  The mother needs more time to get the icky dirty girl stuff out of her system.  What does that tell his followers?

 

Gothard also says that whenever any partner wants to have intimate relations the other person should do it even if they don't want to.  But let's face it, if a man doesn't want to do it, it's pretty difficult to make that happen, and I don't think he wants people who have oral sex or mutual masturbation among his following.  But if the woman isn't in the mood, no problem; lie back and think of how you might just be about to create another Quiverfull blessing.  What fun if you already have a 3 month old and some older ones besides.

 

The men are raised to be proud of how many arrows (blessings [children]) they can add to their quiver.  The women are similarily raised to see how many children they can bear.  There are some like Michelle, who have convinced themselves that their only value in life and beyond is to have as many children as possible.

 

The result is that most quiverfull families live in poverty and can barely get by.  Isolation and homeschooling produce boys who are fixated on working subsistence level jobs and can't make any meaningful decision for themselves.  The girls are even worse off.  They just want to get married and produce as many children as possible, while trying to be a good sex slave to their husband and keep the kids fed, clothed, and if they're lucky, the kids will be taught by their mom to read at least a third grade reading level.

 

You think the Duggars are a good role model for Gothard and his Quiverfull movement?  Check out online some of the signatures of his younger children when they're out on book signing tours.  Most of those kids can only print their names and they all have the handwriting of a kindergartner.  I bet if you asked them the most basic facts of world history or US history, they'd look at you like you were speaking a foreign language.  Ask them what's 5x5, they wouldn't know what you are asking.  Ask them is the proper sentence structure is "I seen a lot of balloons in the sky.", or "I saw a lot of balloons in the sky.", they'd get it wrong.

 

These are the people who want to take over the US government and eventually rule the world.  God help us all.

 

I'm going to shut up now.  Carry on.

[BitterApple]

Zahdii, even the older kids had a very child-like script. I know even public schools don't teach cursive anymore, but the Duggar kids' signatures looked like they came from a small child just learning to print. 

[WTFFF]

Well, Michelle taught the older ones to write, and she copied her handwriting from Stacey McGill of the Baby-Sitters Club.  Seriously, the woman never aged past how old she was when she got married.