Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[DangerousMinds]

I doubt many true fundies could afford to live in Oak Brook.

[becca3891]

JTTH now has a mothers'/women's program:  https://www.regonline.com/builder/site/Default.aspx?EventID=1708780.  It's September 19th to 27th.  So, who's in?  I can imagine us  not even making it to the camp up north.  We would be lucky to make it through the "first official session" on Saturday.  During Sunday's "personal interviews" we would be escorted out.  In fact, I think there is a strong chance I would be branded with a big red A before being forced off of the property.  

I'd actually love the challenge of "passing." I don't have the time or money to actually go through with it but I wish I could, just because I'm curious! I grew up fundy and would have no problem convincing everyone. I know my scriptures, I know all the talking points, I can pray with the best of them. I love the idea of fooling everyone. I really need therapy, lol! 

 

Is anyone else watching Bringing Up Bates? I have been -- it's only 20 minutes a week with commercials fast forwarded, although I sometimes multitask because it can get a bit boring. I couldn't believe it today when their "swing set" turned out to be some logs nailed together. Really, they couldn't have wrangled a free real swing set in exchange for the company getting a mention? Kelly's mom seemed nice and it was funny how the kids kept referring to her as rich and the houses she was looking at as ritzy. Something tells me the Bateses are trying to make sure they're on her good side, just in case.

[BitterApple]

Spaghetti, I thought Whitney looked pregnant on last night's episode. She had a noticeable stomach. I guess she just never shrank back down after Bradley. I don't think any of these girls really work out either so they all tend to retain their tummies. Anna and Jill are the same way.

[GEML]

Becca - I'm betting you and I could "pass"! My Gothardism specific lingo might need to catch up, but I'm a fast code-switcher. And we could smuggle in pork hot dogs to eat when no one was looking! ;)

[kokapetl]

I'd actually love the challenge of "passing." I don't have the time or money to actually go through with it but I wish I could, just because I'm curious! I grew up fundy and would have no problem convincing everyone. I know my scriptures, I know all the talking points, I can pray with the best of them. I love the idea of fooling everyone. I really need therapy, lol!

Anyone interested in hypothetically passing should take a look at the class of 2013http://livingthejourney.com/2013/09/11/september-2013-girls-journey/. The girl in the centre has an amazing hairdo.

[Catlyn]

Anyone interested in hypothetically passing should take a look at the class of 2013http://livingthejour...-girls-journey/. The girl in the centre has an amazing hairdo

 

It looks like a class photo from the late 60s early 70s.  Is that Jinger in the back row?

[Flowers]

There is a bald girl in the front row, who I assume may be so due to cancer or maybe alopecia? Which begs the question: does Gothard waive the hair requirement in these cases? It seems they aren't rejected. Ditto for the black girls in the pic who can't pull off the long and wavy hair, at least not without much difficulty.

Yes, that's Jinger in the back.

[zenme]

Upon closer inspection, the "bald" girl is a blonde with her hair in a tight ponytail. If you look closely, you'll see a black or navy bow, as well.

[Fuzzysox]

That girl in the center looks like Anna's sister in law the one married to her no longer fundie brother. She too had big hair and was a hairdresser so I can imagine how different she was too all the girls Anna's brother grew up with.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithgoespop/2012/08/meet-the-kellers-the-duggars-in-laws/

[zenme]

Oh shit! That girl's hair is insane! It's definitely going to have the focus on her countenance! Or is it?? I guess if you're looking at her hair you're not looking at boobies. Maybe it's a really clever attempt by her parents to keep dudes from wanting to court.

Edited June 26, 2015 by zenme

[Happyfatchick]

The girl in the center looks like a turkey with its feathers fanned out. Seems like it might put a dent on "keeping it sweet", or "focus on the *countenance" when you're sporting a turkey on your head. *[or a counter top... hee!]

That girl's hair is insane! It's definitely going to have the focus on her countenance!

sorry, Zenme! I think we bumped heads with our posts. Imagine sitting behind that girl in a sermon. That's the part I give up (when I can't see the speaker) and start working on my to-do list for next week.

[GeeGolly]

I don't even understand that girl's hair.

[Wellfleet]

Wtf?! Why do they need a photo of JTTH participants? Isn't the whole purpose to develop a closer relationship to God? What does physical appearance have to do with it?

 

Yes, this one fact alone is very disturbing. I don't think I've ever seen an application that requires submission of a photo. In the case of a job where security is an issue, the organization may take a photo, if and when needed, and usually not until the individual was hired. But an applicant wouldn't be providing one. Not at that stage of the game. Very, very odd. I think needing to leave behind cell phones, iPods, books etc is odd too. I can see the suggestion being made, but not an all-out edict. Not surprised by any of this however. Every new nuggest learned about "Gothard world" is weird - and confirms all the other weird nuggets.

 

PS - haven't looked yet but I'm willing to bet applicants for the ALERT academy aren't required to send photos.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Wellfleet

[GeeGolly]

And you 'JTTH-ers', please pass out Skittles while you are there. ;)

[kokapetl]

Yes, this one fact alone is very disturbing. I don't think I've ever seen an application that requires submission of a photo. In the case of a job where security is an issue, the organization may take a photo, if and when needed, and usually not until the individual was hired. But an applicant wouldn't be providing one. Not at that stage of the game. Very, very odd. I think needing to leave behind cell phones, iPods, books etc is odd too. I can see the suggestion being made, but not an all-out edict. Not surprised by any of this however. Every new nuggest learned about "Gothard world" is weird - and confirms all the other weird nuggets.

PS - haven't looked yet but I'm willing to bet applicants for the ALERT academy aren't required to send photos.

I went through quite a few of the class photos and they don't appear to discriminate on attractiveness/race/weight or anything really they could glean from a photo. I think they may actually just want to pad out the application form to be more than name address and credit card number, to make it look legitimate and selective.

I saw Jana through to Jinger in the photos, including John David, before I got bored looking at em.

ALERT seems suspicious as hell to me. At best they're preparing for a 'Red Dawn' scenario, at worst an insurrection.

[Fuzzysox]

Do they fear the girls running away? Sounds like another prison for them to be closed up in.

[GEML]

I imagine the photos are more of an attempt to make sure the girl is "in harmony" with the mission. This isn't a place to convert people. That's not the mission. It's not, contrary to outsider opinion, a place where they ship people off that are misbehaving. It's a privilege and an honor to go. So the photo is proof that you're up to the "honor."

[HundFan]

I did finally see the price.  It is 800 for non ATI cult members.  

 

ETA:  They have another later this year in Oregon. 

 

 

I'm gone 2 days and come back to all this wonderful JTTH research! Some random musings ....

 

*Where do these people get $800 for this stuff? Is there work-study where women are paid to play sleeping victims in brief no big deal over the clothes improper touching?

*Can't wait to do the photo. I'm buying a poodle perm kit and digging up my old dweebie glasses as we speak.

*Causes for dismissal might be difficult to avoid. Raised Methodist (but now Buddhist), I've read the Bible, but am a Philistine by Gothard's metric. Is there a biblical Cliff's Notes for would-be fundangelicals?

*Is surrendering my body to Christ more than avoiding drugs and alcohol? Does it involve me and Bill Gothard in a locked supply closet?? I thought this was Journey to the HEART. 

*Where is their seminar held in Oregon? I'm originally from there and visit regularly. Geo familiarity might compensate for my Bible verse illiteracy. 

 

Thinking about JTTH brought to mind a high school summer when my best friend (a Lutheran) and I somehow ended up at a remote Young Life camp in Canada. It was Christian-lite; the worst they did was wake me up daily with a marching band and cheerfully ask me if I was ready to "accept Christ as a personal savior."  My answer never varied: "Not yet, but I'm trying." (Ultimately, I failed.) The pressure was bearable but tiresome. Now I realize this was preschool compared to JTTH. So I think anyone who wants to become a Hearter should start by attending a JTTH pre-camp. Seminars would cover favorite Bible-thumper verses, how to dowdy-up your wardrobe, appearing obsequious even when you're seething and how to apply heavy, ill-flattering foundation. 

[kokapetl]

From the Journey blog, about the Nov 12 class:

Two of the leaders on this past Girls Journey said this journey reached one accord faster than any they had ever been on. Nine of the young ladies realized they did not have a relationship with Christ and prayed to receive Him as their Savior.

Seems like it works on a combination of guilt/shame and peer pressure. It's not unlikely that repeat attendee Jana was one the leaders, she is in the group photo. Edited June 26, 2015 by Kokapetl

[kokapetl]

I imagine the photos are more of an attempt to make sure the girl is "in harmony" with the mission. This isn't a place to convert people. That's not the mission. It's not, contrary to outsider opinion, a place where they ship people off that are misbehaving. It's a privilege and an honor to go. So the photo is proof that you're up to the "honor."

I'm now thinking they use the photos to inspect the hair. This class has one boy with longish hair, and that's the only one I saw, the rest match John David. I think I saw maybe one girl with short hair, and by short I mean above shoulder length.

ETA: I take that back. Now I notice the boy below the curly Bieber has his hair tied back.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Kokapetl

[HundFan]

I'm sure the different JTTH women's shirt colors have some symbolic meaning, but taken together they're only a few colors shy of a full rainbow. And all of us in California know what THAT means. I doubt JTTH even gets the connection.

Edited June 26, 2015 by HundFan

[JoanArc]

I'm now thinking they use the photos to inspect the hair. This class has one boy with longish hair, and that's the only one I saw, the rest match John David. I think I saw maybe one girl with short hair, and by short I mean above shoulder length.

He's the only one that looks truly miserable, too. Poor guy!

[truthtalk2014]

I'm now thinking they use the photos to inspect the hair. This class has one boy with longish hair, and that's the only one I saw, the rest match John David. I think I saw maybe one girl with short hair, and by short I mean above shoulder length.

ETA: I take that back. Now I notice the boy below the curly Bieber has his hair tied back.

Am I wrong to think that a straightening iron is considered of the devil?  I assume they take those along with your cell phones.  

[Quilt Fairy]

I've been thinking about requiring a picture with your application to JTTH, and I don't think it's outlandish. They want to connect a face with a name for their database. So what? This is a very security conscious world. Conversely, young people today post pictures of themselves online all the time. If Gothard wasn't involved, would you even think twice about it? 

 

The same goes with banning electronic devices and cell phones. When you're there, you're supposed to focus on being there. Isn't that what every summer camp wants?

 

OK, back to snark: That girl in the center, I'm thinking that she has a super long, thick braid that she has wrapped around her head. Although she must have hair down to her waist to make it look like that. It has the potential to make her offr-balance, she looks top-heavy. I wonder if it makes her neck hurt.

[kokapetl]

Am I wrong to think that a straightening iron is considered of the devil? I assume they take those along with your cell phones.

Hmm, I'd say they encourage curling irons for girls, but curly hair in boys is a little too 'ethnic'. A truly solid and well thought out position. Edited June 26, 2015 by Kokapetl

[truthtalk2014]

Hmm, I'd say they encourage curling irons for girls, but curly hair in boys is a little too 'ethnic'. A truly solid and well thought out position.

Oh yea, they want curling irons to make the curls and such - but a straightening iron would make straight hair and I don't think that is the way Daddy Gothard likes it. 

[Churchhoney]

I

 

OK, back to snark: That girl in the center, I'm thinking that she has a super long, thick braid that she has wrapped around her head. Although she must have hair down to her waist to make it look like that. It has the potential to make her offr-balance, she looks top-heavy. I wonder if it makes her neck hurt.

 

Ah, that's a much better explanation than mine. I thought she was trying to impersonate a prairie chicken.

[Sew Sumi]

From the Journey blog, about the Nov 12 class:

Seems like it works on a combination of guilt/shame and peer pressure. It's not unlikely that repeat attendee Jana was one the leaders, she is in the group photo.

Exactly. And I've read plenty of stories on Recovering Grace about girls raised in that lifestyle who were "in rebellion" and forced to do the Journeys. So, there's also that aspect. Not everyone who goes considers it a privilege. But of course, by the end of the week, they've been brought to heel, at least outwardly. 

[Barb23]

I think you have to be a single female between 13-30 to be considered for the girls' JTTH. However, they also offer a Mother's JTTH, because you know women are such sinners! I do not think they offer this service for married men, and there are about 1/3 or maybe 1/2 the amount of boys' JTTH than girls'. Make of this what you will.

 

I recently had my longer hair cut to a much shorter style (tho it is naturally curly) so I guess that leaves me out. I could get some cheap extensions. They couldn't look any worse than the girl in the middle of the picture. Not sure I could stand all the shirt layering either -too hot for me. I'm wondering too what the different colors of their shirts mean.

OMG one of my friend's shared a picture of a stink bus for sale on FB. Who's in? We can tour the country! Maybe we can rescue Jana!

Since I won't be going to JTTH, save me a seat on the bus. Maybe we can get Jana to drive.

[TomServo]

WHYYYY is it that none of the other college age kids snap and post pics of him? (Maybe they have, I wouldn't know him if he walked in my front door!). He seems to have just evaporated. If he's in public, YAY, good for HIM! But where IS this kid?

 

I know people who live in the area, and he's definitely been seen around the area of the college during the semester.  Almost always with some or all of the Bates crew.  I've seen pictures, but I'm not posting links here because I figure he didn't ask to be a D-list celebrity; his parents decided that for him.

 

 

Is that Jinger in the back row?

 

Yep, and Jana, too.

Edited June 27, 2015 by TomServo

[NikSac]

I'm not entirely sure where this belongs. Many of the families including some Duggars will apparently be in town (local for me) next week. There's info here: http://ati.iblp.org/ati/events/regionalconferences/. Appearing live it shows David Waller and Gil and Kelly Bates, among others. JB and Michelle are "appearing" via video. I don't think any of the Duggars are appearing in person.

 

I can't help but laugh that it's supposed to hit 105 degrees the day they arrive, and the whole time they'll be here.  It's not that unusual for around here and the time of year, but considering it's in the 90s before and after, I thought it was funny timing wise.

[Micks Picks]

I looked at the program, and they remind me of Hitler youth.  Indoctrination of the little girls, drilling courtesy of Alert, speaker after speaker about family and duty.  I've been forced through work to go to some boring stuff, but nothing quite like this.  Boring conference, boring life full of duty and fear.  I'm glad I'm not one of them.

[becca3891]

Becca - I'm betting you and I could "pass"! My Gothardism specific lingo might need to catch up, but I'm a fast code-switcher. And we could smuggle in pork hot dogs to eat when no one was looking! ;)

Haha, I love it, GEML! Half of me really wishes we could, but of course a whole week with no connection to the outside world, constantly having to pretend, might get a little old. 

 

I'm guessing for the girls that never wanted to be there in the first place, there may be some pretending going on as well. They may figure, hey, if I don't just suck it up and pretend my "heart has been changed," Dad and Mom are just going to send me back again. I know many like Jana and Jinger really do want to be there, but based on what we've heard, not all of them do.

[Ljohnson1987]

Why do Fundies feel the need to live stream their weddings? TFDW's brother is getting married today.

[GEML]

I imagine a lot of the reactions depends on what life is like at home. There are happy, functional Fundy homes just as there are unhappy, dysfunctional secular ones (and every permutation in between.). Plus, some girls really enjoy "camp" type escapades and some don't, regardless of subject matter.

I do think IBLP is smart, strategically, making JTTH and ALERT! a privilege for their followers rather than punishments. You do catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and I have no doubt that a lot of fence sitters had their allegiance solidified by being "chosen" to attend and having a week away from home that perhaps was even stricter than what they learned at home, but had the added plus of peer pressure as opposed to parental bossing.

[kokapetl]

Why do Fundies feel the need to live stream their weddings? TFDW's brother is getting married today.

I don't understand why they even bothered. Considering that the live streaming was announced just a day before the event, and David only instagramed about the live stream immediately prior to the thing starting, he and Priscilla wore matching fuchsia, how many would have viewed it? They pay to have these personal websites, but fail to cultivate any followers.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GeeGolly]

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier...

 

Change of subject: The Bates. I do watch their show and see the blatant differences between them and the Duggars. However Alyssa married a conservative politician's son & Michael is engaged to a Gothard employee. Is the Bates family just more savvy & subtle (maybe having learned from some of the Duggar 'mistakes'), or are they more 'see how we live - if your life is lacking - join us'?

[Fuzzysox]

Prissy and David look very nice and polished! I love the bridesmaid dress she is wearing. Classy not tacky and the pearls add a nice simple touch! Well done. Take notes Jinger! 

[Sew Sumi]

I'm not entirely sure where this belongs. Many of the families including some Duggars will apparently be in town (local for me) next week. There's info here: http://ati.iblp.org/ati/events/regionalconferences/. Appearing live it shows David Waller and Gil and Kelly Bates, among others. JB and Michelle are "appearing" via video. I don't think any of the Duggars are appearing in person.

 

I can't help but laugh that it's supposed to hit 105 degrees the day they arrive, and the whole time they'll be here.  It's not that unusual for around here and the time of year, but considering it's in the 90s before and after, I thought it was funny timing wise.

Yeah, I have no idea why they do the Sacto conference at the height of the Central Valley heat. That's a venue better suited to the fall. 

[Churchhoney]

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier...

 

Change of subject: The Bates. I do watch their show and see the blatant differences between them and the Duggars. However Alyssa married a conservative politician's son & Michael is engaged to a Gothard employee. Is the Bates family just more savvy & subtle (maybe having learned from some of the Duggar 'mistakes'), or are they more 'see how we live - if your life is lacking - join us'?

 

Makes me really curious. Especially because I can't think of the Bateses without thinking of the Nathan Bedford Forrest portrait they have on their sort of "love of country" wall. Just thought of that the other day, reading an old quote about NBF in an article on the pro-slavery and racist underpinnings and aftermath of the Civil War, in The Atlantic:    

 

"And in 1917, the Confederate Veteran [a late 19th-/early 20-century magazine] singled out one man for particular praise:

   "'Great and trying times always produce great leaders, and one was at hand—Nathan Bedford Forrest. His plan, the only course left open. The organization of a secret govern­ment. A terrible government; a government that would govern in spite of black majorities and Federal bayonets. This secret government was organized in every community in the South, and this government is known in history as the Klu Klux Clan...

    "'...No nobler or grander spirits ever assembled on this earth than gathered in these clans. No human hearts were ever moved with nobler impulses or higher aims and purposes….Order was restored, property safe; because the negro feared the Klu Klux Clan more than he feared the devil. Even the Federal bayonets could not give him confidence in the black government which had been established for him, and the negro voluntarily surrendered to the Klu Klux Clan....

    "'Bedford Forrest should always be held in reverence by every son and daughter of the South as long as memory holds dear the noble deeds and service of men for the good of others on, this earth. What mind is base enough to think of what might have happened but for Bedford Forrest and his "Invisible" but victorious army.'''

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

 

The guy was apparently a very talented and ruthless military officer, too, but there's no way that the Bateses, college-educated southerners, aren't fully aware of the only real reason that Forrest is still remembered and was celebrated long after the war. I would love to know what's in the head of a 21st-century American who hangs a few pictures on his wall of national heroes and the founder of the KKK is among them. Sure hoping that they didn't name their son Nathan after this dude, but who the heck knows. How many portraits of historical figures do any of us have on our walls?

 

ETA: I guess the depiction of the old-time Clan is of massively fearful people. So if the Bateses are identifying with this tradition in some way, then that would put them right in the same ballpark as JImBob and Michelle who, to me, appear to be some of the most fearful people on this earth. I haven't watched the Bates (heck, have hardly even watched any of the Duggars), but from what I read, they don't seem to give off the fear vibes that the Duggs do. They seem to be quite a mystery.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Churchhoney

[GEML]

I disagree that the Klan is the ONLY reason NBF is remembered - especially if you are from Tennessee. Each state does tend to remember each personality that it sent - and for anyone who is a Civil War buff (my husband and I are - for the record, we considered naming a child Grant but have a print named "Lee's Lieutenants" on our wall) you know who these folks are.

Edited June 27, 2015 by GEML

[Micks Picks]

Forrest Gump got his name from this man, according to the character's creator.

[Churchhoney]

I disagree that the Klan is the ONLY reason NBF is remembered - especially if you are from Tennessee. Each state does tend to remember each personality that it sent - and for anyone who is a Civil War buff (my husband and I are - for the record, we considered naming a child Grant but have a print named "Lee's Lieutenants" on our wall) you know who these folks are.

 

 

 

Okay, that's true. I've never been one to focus on military strategists as the greatest historical heroes, so I know I tend to put them a lot lower on my list of inspiring historical figures. That's probably because nobody else ever got much mention in my school history classes, and memorizing lists of battles and generals nearly killed history for me for life. Nevertheless, I still wonder what's going on in the head of a 21st-century person who names Confederate leaders as their national heroes and especially this guy, whose role after the war makes him, at the least, a difficult figure that one might hesitate to venerate. Founder of the C/Klan -- to use violence and the threat of it to make sure that blacks could get nowhere, even after slavery ended. Nice Christian attitude. Also not very patriotic -- treasonous at the time, in fact, although nobody was going to treat it as such.

Forrest Gump got his name from this man, according to the character's creator

 

 

 

Apparently I have an issue with NBF that goes beyond the Bateses then, because I don't get that story either!

[GEML]

I'll admit, I've never watched FORREST GUMP. But I've talked a little with the writer's literary agent, and he was old style, southern gentleman type. I'm a West Virginian, so I can play both sides, but there was a lot of nasty stuff on both sides that came out of the late 19th and early 20th Century. Neither the North nor the South has much to brag about in the years after the war.

[Churchhoney]

I'll admit, I've never watched FORREST GUMP. But I've talked a little with the writer's literary agent, and he was old style, southern gentleman type. I'm a West Virginian, so I can play both sides, but there was a lot of nasty stuff on both sides that came out of the late 19th and early 20th Century. Neither the North nor the South has much to brag about in the years after the war.

 

Only too true. Civil strife has a way of bringing out the worst in people.

[BitterApple]

Prissy and David look very nice and polished! I love the bridesmaid dress she is wearing. Classy not tacky and the pearls add a nice simple touch! Well done. Take notes Jinger!

Right?! I can't even snark. Pris looks polished and elegant. The Duggar girls as bridesmaids looked ratty and cheap in comparison.

[RazzleberryPie]

TFDW and Priscilla look great there, and they can't be faulted for matching fuschia, because they're wearing wedding party colors/clothing. They really are two good looking people, until they start speaking, and then it's just Gothard-bot crazyness.

[kokapetl]

TFDW and Priscilla look great there, and they can't be faulted for matching fuschia, because they're wearing wedding party colors/clothing. They really are two good looking people, until they start speaking, and then it's just Gothard-bot crazyness.

I missed the live streaming, and I did try and see what the wedding party wore, but I couldn't find any other photos about the wedding besides Gayvid's Instagram. I'm gay, and I'll admit he is attractive in an inoffensive way. While I'm on the subject, I wanna say that Derick's Picassoesque face is more attractive than Bens blah symmetrical allergy face.

[Wellfleet]

Why do Fundies feel the need to live stream their weddings? TFDW's brother is getting married today.

 

My guess is because getting married in the absolute biggest, best thing that is ever going to happen to them, and they want to be sure everyone knows about it. They must be loving the fact that they can stream it now, rather than just share photos at the next fundie gathering after their wedding. Which is probably another wedding... LOL.

I've been thinking about requiring a picture with your application to JTTH, and I don't think it's outlandish. They want to connect a face with a name for their database. So what? This is a very security conscious world. Conversely, young people today post pictures of themselves online all the time. If Gothard wasn't involved, would you even think twice about it? 

 

The same goes with banning electronic devices and cell phones. When you're there, you're supposed to focus on being there. Isn't that what every summer camp wants?

 

OK, back to snark: That girl in the center, I'm thinking that she has a super long, thick braid that she has wrapped around her head. Although she must have hair down to her waist to make it look like that. It has the potential to make her offr-balance, she looks top-heavy. I wonder if it makes her neck hurt.

 

The girl in the center. It looks like she was going for that Kate Gosselin porcupine hairstyle  - but something went horribly wrong. LOL.

[Marigny]

I don't understand why they even bothered. Considering that the live streaming was announced just a day before the event, and David only instagramed about the live stream immediately prior to the thing starting, he and Priscilla wore matching fuschia, how many would have viewed it? They pay to have these personal websites, but fail to cultivate any followers.

Werq!!!!