Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[becca3891]

"To their credit, they did mention that they finally used birth control right at the end of the mom's childbearing years because she had a dangerous pregnancy/birth. So that's something.)"

I admit I didn't pay close attention, but my understanding was after the uterus-shredding pregnancy she actually got pregnant again. It was after the subsequent pregnancy she finally wised up and had her tubes tied.

Yes, you're right, that's exactly what was described. Thanks for clarifying!

 

I agree that their warmth/affection seems genuine and it's only a good thing that they feel comfortable in concert halls and public libraries. I just found it all a little boring, found the camera work dizzying, and was a little creeped out by the vibe of the home church and the whole Mary courtship/engagement/breakup. Also I hate it when reality TV tries to make it seem like things are way tougher than they are. They were acting like they needed to make a few random stops in the western part of the country to get their name out there, when they and the producers knew full well that they just did it to film interesting places. Their real exposure was America's Got Talent and now their show, both of which are accessible to anyone with a TV and which have allowed their album to become so popular.

[Happyfatchick]

... and the whole Mary courtship/engagement/breakup.

. They broke up? I didn't watch past the engagement show, so didn't see this. Can't find it on google or the Willis forum.

[Barb23]

I did like the Willis episode showing Mom, one of the older girls & possibly a younger one going grocery shopping. The older daughter made comments like it's no big deal shopping for a large family, you don't need to bring the whole family where everyone has a cart & showing the long receipt at the end. We all knew who she was referencing.

[Fuzzysox]

. They broke up? I didn't watch past the engagement show, so didn't see this. Can't find it on google or the Willis forum.

I want to know more too. They seemed perfect for one another.

[parisprincess]

I enjoy the Willis family.  Toby and Brenda have a normal relationship that doesn’t include mauling and constant sexual references.    Also, watching the sisters and brothers interact with each other on such a comfortable level is really refreshing, since the Duggar girls aren’t allowed much interaction with their brothers.

 

Even though the Willis parents share some of the fundie beliefs of the Duggars, my concern is for the kids and how they are cared for.   The way Toby and Brenda interact with their brood makes it obvious that they are involved parents who have no problem showing the kids love.   They set boundaries, but they’re not outrageous and stifling for the kids.

 

I would much rather watch a bunch of happy kids having fun doing what they seem to love, singing, dancing and wrestling, than watch the older Duggar girls parent their younger siblings (yawn) while the older boys do what?  We rarely see them doing anything.

 

Although I’d like an update occasionally (maybe once a year) on what is happening to the Duggar kids, I wouldn’t mind not seeing all the upcoming courtships, weddings, pregnancies and births, since that is all the show has become, other than JimBob and Michelle schooling us over and over again on their courting/mating rituals and reminding us what pious Christians they are.

[GEML]

I'm now wondering if the counter stuff doesn't start off as a way of getting the younger children in the shot.

[dillpickles]

I'm now wondering if the counter stuff doesn't start off as a way of getting the younger children in the shot.

"Oh Josie, why don't you stand on the counter and lick your fingers for the camera?"

"Hey J-whatever, ride your bike indoors! It will be quirky! "

[GEML]

Let's face it - with their fame has come some laziness, or at least complacency from their film crew.

[Churchhoney]

I do think a lot more kids would run on counters if it were permitted. When you're the short people in the place, it's nice to be up high.

[Happyfatchick]

"Permitted" being the key word. I've always been the short person in my crowd - I'm assuming (in my mid 50's) I'm not going to grow out of it. Never occurred to me to WANT to run on the counters (barefoot or otherwise). I have to admit I was an ace at climbing onto a chair and stepping up a counter when I was very young. When it became apparent That growing taller was out, I learned to be a champion "spatula jar flipper". Where you grab the nearest spatula (or any long utensil, really) and flip the jar into midair and catch it. Ought to be an Olympic sport: I'm a pro.

[JenCarroll]

lol My husband hates when I do that. And one of my daughters (the 20-yr. old) is even shorter than I am, with really tiny hands. She's a menace in the kitchen, with the spatula flip or her own patented " throw a beanbag at the can" move, or her belief that once she's up on a stool (or the counter) she might as well get everything in one trip. Nothing like jumping down off the counter with an armful of plates and glasses!

[Micks Picks]

Well make that three of us, HFC and JenC.  You gotta improvise.  

 

Just wanted to also ask if either of you feel really weird when you interact with people shorter than you.  You know, they aren't dwarfs or anything, just a couple of inches shorter.  I feel so odd.  And I feel like I am almost looking over the heads of short men, though they are still several inches taller than me.  

Edited June 21, 2015 by Micks Picks

[cereality]

I want to know more too. They seemed perfect for one another.

They didn't say much about the break up and Jer seemed pretty confused himself saying -- I don't understand the things she was saying, I want to talk to her. He also said something along the lines of -- I don't want to give up what I love and what I'm good at -- meaning the band, when talking about the break up. It's quite possible that they got engaged with her thinking -- oh he's a singer in a family band and he's quick to grab me and start dancing wherever we are, how cute -- and figured he'd get a "real" job before or once they got married and leave the band to the other 11 siblings. He OTOH may have thought -- this is my job, this will pay the bills, she'll go on the road with us until there are babies, and then she'll stay home and I'll see her in between shows as much as I can. He seemed STUNNED at the suggestion that he'd have to give up the band. From the way he answered questions and things that the mom said -- sounds like they weren't sympatico re what married life would look like and the mom says they may end up apart permanently.

[Happyfatchick]

That's too bad; I thought they'd been near enough for long enough to fit nicely. I liked the way they laughed and seemed so comfortable together. I hope he doesn't take it too hard, so that it doesn't work against his personality. He seems agreeable enough on camera, and works well with the ip other kids - but he has those drawn down eyebrows that give him a surly look sometimes. I almost feel like going "nice" all the time is a bit of a stretch for him. When I grow up (ugh!) I'd love to study psychology, just so I could read body language. It fascinates me.

[GeeGolly]

I've watch the Willises a couple of times. I've noticed 2 instances where the family band seemed to come first; one of the boys stated he would have liked to try and make the Olympic wrestling team, and the oldest boy losing his fiance. The 'wrestler' actually stated the band comes first, it is just my assumption about the canceled engagement.

[Carolyn15]

I'm from the NW Chicago suburbs, and I remember this vividly. The resulting scandal brought down the governor.

I am from the far North Suburbs and remember this so well. I made my heart hurt watching the coverage. It did change alot of laws in Illinois about getting a drivers licence The faith the family has got them through so much.

[cereality]

Do the Willis kids support the parents or does the dad do something else for a living? I like the family overall -- despite the fundy beliefs, they are a lot more real, connected with each other, not as militant about courting or not hugging or not wearing pants or whatever. But there's something about the parents that comes across very "stage parent" or "you better not screw this up, you're my meal ticket." I think it's just the way they bark out orders that everyone needs to be wearing blue and standing here and be ready to go at x time. I sort of get it, but honestly the older kids are in their late teens and 20s -- by that age, people in a band view it as "theirs" and they're not going to eff up an opportunity for an album release party in Nashville or a photo spread in People; they don't need their mommy yelling at them, they know it's a big deal.

 

If the stage parent thing is true and Jer remaining in the band long term was what turned Mary off, I can kind of see why. She might love him, but maybe she wants an independent life and home -- not a husband who works for his parents who will in turn be screaming at her to get on the bus bc they're late for a photo shoot and she's expected to go wherever Jer goes.

 

What's the deal with the little kids? Do they perform with the band or are they just "brought out" here and there to add to the cuteness? I don't see why a 22 yr old or a 17 yr old would want to be in a band with their 5 yr old sibling, nor do I see what a 5 yr old adds when the older ones are writing and singing the songs and playing the instruments.

[bigskygirl]

Reminder: There is a Willis Family forum   http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1715-the-willis-family/

 

Please take the family discussion there.

[kokapetl]

Do the Willis kids support the parents or does the dad do something else for a living? I like the family overall -- despite the fundy beliefs, they are a lot more real, connected with each other, not as militant about courting or not hugging or not wearing pants or whatever. But there's something about the parents that comes across very "stage parent" or "you better not screw this up, you're my meal ticket." I think it's just the way they bark out orders that everyone needs to be wearing blue and standing here and be ready to go at x time. I sort of get it, but honestly the older kids are in their late teens and 20s -- by that age, people in a band view it as "theirs" and they're not going to eff up an opportunity for an album release party in Nashville or a photo spread in People; they don't need their mommy yelling at them, they know it's a big deal.

If the stage parent thing is true and Jer remaining in the band long term was what turned Mary off, I can kind of see why. She might love him, but maybe she wants an independent life and home -- not a husband who works for his parents who will in turn be screaming at her to get on the bus bc they're late for a photo shoot and she's expected to go wherever Jer goes.

What's the deal with the little kids? Do they perform with the band or are they just "brought out" here and there to add to the cuteness? I don't see why a 22 yr old or a 17 yr old would want to be in a band with their 5 yr old sibling, nor do I see what a 5 yr old adds when the older ones are writing and singing the songs and playing the instruments.

The Willis family reached an out of court settlement of around $100 million with the state of Illinois, due to the fact a Illinois government official accepted a bribe and unlawfully gave the driver at fault (in the crash that killed half dozen Willises) a drivers license in return for that bribe. Perhaps forty percent of that amount would have gone to the lawyers, and Scott Willis wouldn't have been the next of kin to his siblings who died in the crash (the parents were still alive) but it's fair to say the 'Wíllís Clan' don't need money. They're after fame. The parents don't have jobs because they don't need jobs.

[Flowers]

I like the Bates, I really do. I follow their IG and enjoy their posts there. That also means I can see that they continue to Like all of the Duggars pics on IG, so I doubt heavily that they "really aren't that close" and that their relationship is TLC-driven.

Up Network probably told them not to make major statements while the Josh thing is going on and they haven't. But their social media usage still supports that family.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Flowers

[Flowers]

Also, sorry but I don't know where to post this, why am I seeing threads stretch waaaaay out along the right side of my screen (iphone)? It's difficult to read the forum this way. I didn't see it like this before I stopped lurking and signed up to the site. Can anyone help?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Flowers

[zenme]

Click the "mobile version" button at the bottom of the page.

[Flowers]

Thank you!!!!!!

[Fuzzysox]

I am from the far North Suburbs and remember this so well. I made my heart hurt watching the coverage. It did change alot of laws in Illinois about getting a drivers licence The faith the family has got them through so much.

I see we have plenty of Chicago girls around here. Anyone up for a bus trip to Gothard headquaters so we can meet TFDW? It would make my year if we did!

[Sew Sumi]

Brandon Keilen (Michael's fiance) also works at HQ, so you can get a gander at him, too! 

[becca3891]

I see we have plenty of Chicago girls around here. Anyone up for a bus trip to Gothard headquaters so we can meet TFDW? It would make my year if we did!

Haha! I wish I lived close enough to do that. I wonder how the Gothard headquarters are set up. Can you just put on a skirt and show up, asking for a tour and saying god laid it on your heart to check it out? I would love to meet TFDW too.

[Happyfatchick]

Edited: I thought I was on this thread when I posted this earlier so it's OT...sorry!

I've watched a little of the Bates family, and I agree with other posters that they seem likable and especially engaged with their kids. Even the parents are personable. It's hard not to like them.

Doesn't it seem so WEIRD though, that they are more closely "tied" to the Gothard system than the Duggars, yet we "like" them? It seems to me we'd be viewing them as little Gothardite robots. How is it that they have managed to break free and be real people? Maybe I'm only seeing the "family", though, and not the son in laws. Most of the time, I get that creepy radar thing that pings "narcissist" about the top guys. Gil may be a narcissist, but he's a like able one.

I think it's a pretty thin line (and probably significantly overlaps sometimes) between a narcissist and a con man.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[GEML]

I think there are two things in play -- first, Gil is an educated person who at least at had the option of choosing his religion based upon some non-fear reasons.  Education won't keep you from making a fear-based choice (plenty of educated people are very fear-based) but it also does give you some chance of learning some critical thinking skills to come at that religion in more than one way.  I think the Duggars are Gothardites because they fear the world and God's judgement.  I think the Bates are Gothardites because they feel it's a better way to live.

 

Second, I think Kelly actually is a nurturing person, which makes all the difference in the domestic life of the home.  Michelle doesn't enjoy children.  I think she likes babies under the age of about six months, and I think she might enjoy her adult children, but she doesn't like the stages in between.  Under most conditions, that would be ok -- not all women, including all mothers, really like children that much, and we need our mothers most at the earliest stages of life, and we'll be adults longer than we'll be children, so having a close relationship as an adult can be more rewarding in the long run.  If you have one or two children, you might be able to bear the young years until everyone gets to the place where they are happiest.

But Michelle didn't follow that -- she's had children all of her life, and more importantly, a lifestyle that insists that her brain be one thing and she profess another (loving children and childraising.)  That creates cognitive dissonance and her mental life seems pretty messy to me.  Whereas Kelly seems to love children, babies AND her adult children.  I think she basically enjoys people.  That makes a huge difference just day to day.

Then there's the whole Josh mess (who knows what they were like before that) and the fact that Gil Bates isn't a politician or a wannabe politician.  I'll say it over and over -- politics is dirty and no one goes into it, however noble, and comes out clean.  Jim Bob wanted a life that he didn't get, and he wasn't good at.  And it's a life that corrupted him all the same.  

[Aja]

I agree about the Bates. For me, it comes down to motivation, or the motivation that I am perceiving. The Duggars always seemed extremely motivated by attention and money. JB with all of his politickin' and Michelle with her Mother Of The Year bullshit, all of their overly rehearsed appearances and "spontaneous" talking head interviews on the show, The Today Show appearances every ten seconds, the People magazine covers. It's very clear that they absolutely love it and eat it up, and as a result their 'wholesome Christian family' schtick comes across as not terribly genuine (to put it nicely.) The Bates, on the other hand, seemed to find the novelty of the whole reality TV thing interesting for a little while, but ultimately weren't that motivated to "put on a show". That naturally comes across as more genuine and likeable. And this totally putting aside sex scandals and the politics of Satan.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Aja

[Fuzzysox]

Haha! I wish I lived close enough to do that. I wonder how the Gothard headquarters are set up. Can you just put on a skirt and show up, asking for a tour and saying god laid it on your heart to check it out? I would love to meet TFDW too.

Hmmm I would love to meet TFDW. My only problem is that I only own skorts and nothing really long enough to cover my defrauding hussie knees. I will not buy a maxi skirt not my style so unless TFDW and Prissy just happen to be shopping at Oak Brook Mall then my dream of meeting him will never come true. :(

Edited June 24, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Muffyn]

Hmmm I would love to meet TFDW. My only problem is that I only own skorts and nothing really long enough to cover my defrauding hussie knees. I will not buy a maxi skirt not my style so unless TFDW and Prissy just happen to be shopping at Oak Brook Mall then my dream of meeting him will never come true. :(

They would have to put blinders on TFDW and have modestly-dressed women completely surround him to allow him to safely go to the mall.  Think of all of the defrauding!  He might see a woman in pants!  He might see a mannequin in a mini skirt!  Shorts!  There would be shorts!  The poor man would never be able to control himself.  

[Happyfatchick]

 The poor man would never be able to control himself.

And it most definitely WOULD NOT be his fault - his lack of self control, with all that blatant defrauding beating his eyeballs!!!

[becca3891]

This is TFDW we're talking about. I think the only defrauding going on at the mall will be the guys in skinny jeans and the shirtless mannequins in the window of Abercrombie and Fitch. And thankfully for TFDW, no one but us thinks those things would defraud him! 

[Happyfatchick]

@becca3891

There's something for EVERYone in a public mall!!! ;)

[Fuzzysox]

Pride parade this weekend in Chicago. It's a HUGE celebration TFDW could go down there you know to "minister." 

[yogi2014L]

I see we have plenty of Chicago girls around here. Anyone up for a bus trip to Gothard headquaters so we can meet TFDW? It would make my year if we did!

I live and work less than 5 miles from Gothard Headquaters, I have been following the Duggars for over 6 years and am sometimes shocked I haven't been there yet.

 

I drive past it on a regular basis, maybe next time I will actually stop and pull in parking lot LOL

I feel like it would actually cross me over from snarker to stalker but I probably will find my way over there one of these days, but maybe if we go in a group it wouldn't be so bad? haha. 

 

I see fundies from time to time and am waiting for the day I run into TFDW and Prissy. LOL

Edited June 24, 2015 by yogi2014L

[Fuzzysox]

I live and work less than 5 miles from Gothard Headquaters, I have been following the Duggars for over 6 years and am sometimes shocked I haven't been there yet.

 

I drive past it on a regular basis, maybe next time I will actually stop and pull in parking lot LOL

I feel like it would actually cross me over from snarker to stalker but I probably will find my way over there one of these days, but maybe if we go in a group it wouldn't be so bad? haha. 

 

I see fundies from time to time and am waiting for the day I run into TFDW and Prissy. LOL

Damn girl now I'm jealous that you are a stone's throw away from them!!!!!!! Can't you take pictures?

[Frost]

 

But kids are commodities to so many of these families.  You can't be invested in all of them.  And you can't be close siblings if you are 20 years apart.

That's a pretty big generalization.  My dad is one of 18 children and there's 30 years between the oldest and youngest.   We're talking 1917 through the late 1940's so times were different then, but there was, and is, a very strong bond between the siblings.  There are also some very strong relationships between some of the younger siblings and their nieces and nephews of the same age.  Just because something looks different doesn't mean it's not genuine.

[yogi2014L]

Damn girl now I'm jealous that you are a stone's throw away from them!!!!!!! Can't you take pictures?

Next time I drive past Ill try to get a pic of headquarters, LOL!

 

Its funny bc Hinsdale/Oakbrook/Downers Grove is pretty expensive, I really want to know if TFDW and Prissy own their home. They live in DG which is FAR cheaper than OakBrook/Hinsdale(those areas have million dollar homes) but still pretty pricey. 

[zenme]

That's a pretty big generalization.  My dad is one of 18 children and there's 30 years between the oldest and youngest.   We're talking 1917 through the late 1940's so times were different then, but there was, and is, a very strong bond between the siblings.  There are also some very strong relationships between some of the younger siblings and their nieces and nephews of the same age.  Just because something looks different doesn't mean it's not genuine

 

I agree.  My dad is one of 14. They're all extremely close, and the oldest have special relationships with the youngest as they would often spend the night with the olders and their children.  I'm 14 years older than my sister and we're extremely close.  I think "closeness" depends on the family.  I don't think a family like the Duggars really fosters such close relationships with anyone other than spouses, and only same sex siblings relationships are encouraged.  Sad.

[Fuzzysox]

Next time I drive past Ill try to get a pic of headquarters, LOL!

 

Its funny bc Hinsdale/Oakbrook/Downers Grove is pretty expensive, I really want to know if TFDW and Prissy own their home. They live in DG which is FAR cheaper than OakBrook/Hinsdale(those areas have million dollar homes) but still pretty pricey. 

I suspect that Bill Gothard owns a lot of houses that he rents out to his ministry peeps. I know it's expensive there! I still SMH thinking that Gothard can survive considering Oak Brook, Hinsdale and Downers Grove demographics are rich highly educated people.

[kokapetl]

I suspect that Bill Gothard owns a lot of houses that he rents out to his ministry peeps. I know it's expensive there! I still SMH thinking that Gothard can survive considering Oak Brook, Hinsdale and Downers Grove demographics are rich highly educated people.

I looked at David Wallers house on google maps, his house was toilet papered on the day the Google streetview car took the photo.

It's the worst house on the street, the rest of the street looks like what Hollywood thinks is middle class, so upper upper middle class at the very least.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Kokapetl

[zenme]

I looked at David Wallers house on google maps, his house was toilet papered on the day the Google streetview car took the photo

 

I let out a huge laugh, and I know karma will repay me by having someone t.p. my property.  We have well over a hundred trees, so I'm in trouble...

[Fuzzysox]

I looked at David Wallers house on google maps, his house was toilet papered on the day the Google streetview car took the photo.

It's the worst house on the street, the rest of the street looks like what Hollywood thinks is middle class, so upper upper middle class at the very least.

Like I said I suspect Bill owns those houses because old crappy houses that sit on a huge lot  have been sold and  torn down and replaced with mansions. Bill probably uses those houses to house his ministry peeps.  Otherwise they couldn't afford to live up there on what little they make being Gothard's salespeople.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[yogi2014L]

I suspect that Bill Gothard owns a lot of houses that he rents out to his ministry peeps. I know it's expensive there! I still SMH thinking that Gothard can survive considering Oak Brook, Hinsdale and Downers Grove demographics are rich highly educated people.

I really doubt the majority of the followers are around here- It just doesn't make sense.  The women in this areas are far from skirt wearing/barefoot and pregnant and you do not see families with more than 4 kids lol.

I guess we do have Wheaton College not too far away but this is a fairly liberal area, and there are a lot of Catholics. Catholics who use birth control. :-)

 

Interesting theory on Gothard owning the houses- especially in DG.  That makes a  lot of sense. He still has to pay them a bit because cost of living for 15 kids is gonna be high around here, lol. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by yogi2014L

[kokapetl]

Astonishingly, the ranch style Maison d'Waller has a fair cash value of $47,200. The owners, who live a couple houses down the street, their house has a fair cash value of $492,800. Zillow and Redfin give estimates of $1,200,000 to $1,400,000 for the Wallerhaus.

[BitterApple]

I was going to say when the Smuggars visited TFDW and Priscilla, the town they lived in looked really nice. How much is Ole Bill paying his underlings? The Wallers live in a simple ranch home but it was done up nicely and had a lot of land.

[Ilovemylabs]

That's a pretty big generalization.  My dad is one of 18 children and there's 30 years between the oldest and youngest.   We're talking 1917 through the late 1940's so times were different then, but there was, and is, a very strong bond between the siblings.  There are also some very strong relationships between some of the younger siblings and their nieces and nephews of the same age.  Just because something looks different doesn't mean it's not genuine.

My sister and I are 17 years apart and are very close.  Can't make generalizations.

[kokapetl]

I was going to say when the Smuggars visited TFDW and Priscilla, the town they lived in looked really nice. How much is Ole Bill paying his underlings? The Wallers live in a simple ranch home but it was done up nicely and had a lot of land.

The lot barely has room for the small ranch house and driveway, looks to be the smallest in the neighborhood. A lot of the neighbors have space for horseshoe 'drive thru' driveways. I imagine the entire area looks amazing outside of winter, lots of trees.

[Flowers]

I must be alone here. David doesn't strike me as gay at all, just "not macho." Because a man (especially one raised with all the Gothard stuff) isn't macho and is rather awkward and soft-spoken doesn't make him gay. I enjoy this forum but this is an aspect that has always seemed quite catty.