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S04.E14: Unforgiven


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David and Mary Margaret suspect Cruella and Ursula have come to Storybrooke looking for something more than their own happy endings - something that threatens to reveal a secret they thought was long buried. Emma begins her own investigation of Cruella and Ursula, but she can't shake the feeling that her friends and family are keeping something from her. Regina and Henry continue their search for the Author, turning to Pinocchio and Marco in the hope Pinocchio might remember a clue that will help them. Meanwhile, in a flashback to Fairy Tale Land, Snow and Charming cross paths with the Queens of Darkness as the threat of the Evil Queen's Dark Curse hangs over all of them.

 

 

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I'm going to remember that scene between Regina and Pinnochio next time someone tells me how good she is with children. Loved that Marco wasn't drinking the Koolaid, but he couldn't even hold out for a single episode. 

 

I love Cruella's appreciation of Charming's looks. I also liked how she seemingly put a comforting hand around Ursula's shoulder as they walked away from Hook. I wonder what he could have done.

 

Even though I dread this storyline, GG made me tear up a little with her quivering chin, not gonna lie.

  • Love 6
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I was so happy to be home on a Sunday evening that I watched live and decided not to record.  Of course, I ended missing a couple of scenes.  :-(  I don't think I missed anything important though.  

 

Interesting that to make sure Emma was a "hero", Malificent ended up losing her baby.  I'm not sure how that works but I guess we'll find out.  I also don't know if I like the idea that Emma isn't who she is because she's basically a good person despite it all, but because of some spell or something.  It's just more piling on removal of free will here.

  • Love 18
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So it never occurred to Snow and Charming that maybe the tree of wisdom would reject them for buying this shit that Emma had the potential for the greatest evil or whatever.  They just cratered the Charming family.  This was annoying as hell.

 

I'm seriously considering whether I'll be watching again.  I may take a break for a while.

  • Love 9
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My thoughts on the episode:

 

I was a bit bored, but did enjoy some parts of the episode. 

 

Introductory scene questions: Why is Snow wearing an ugly blue smock? Why don’t they give her a prettier nightgown? And her Enchanted Forest wig was even uglier. OUAT producers, I beg of you, stop this madness.

 

Surprise: During the scene with Belle, all I could think of was Wow, Ursula is packing some really long tentacles. 

 

Loved:
1. The snarky comments:
“If that old bag still wolfed out I would turn her into a coat for my collection.”
“If only your wits matched your looks.”
“Is there a problem, Sherriff Chiseled Chin?” 
“It would be nice if one of the Charmings lived up to their family name.”
“Can I choke them first? My tentacles are bored.”

2. Maleficent’s resurrection.  The clevilage (= evil cleavage, coined by Stacey) is back!

3. Seeing Geppetto again.  And what a nice scene between him and Regina.

4. Gold’s look of love turning to horror and betrayal as he watched Belle kiss Will Scarlet.

  • Love 4
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(edited)

I thought this episode was pretty engaging--more fun that last week. I really appreciated the refocus on the core characters instead of the episode being all about the villains, and goodness knows it’s nice to see Snowing FINALLY get a storyline. But I spent most of the episode unable to get too excited because I just KNOW Snowing’s “secret”--whatever they did to make sure Emma was okay and resulted in Maleficent losing her baby--is going to be the STUPIDEST thing ever, so it’s impossible to get too jazzed. It’ll probably be like, Snow sneezed and somewhere in China a butterfly flapped its wings and somewhere else a branch fell on Mal and caused her to miscarry, so it’s ALL! SNOW’S! FAULT!!! Because lbr, the show does not have the balls to have Snow actually be a baby killer, so it's going to end up looking stupider than stupid.

 

Hopefully the fairybacks this season will tell one unified story. This is another good premise, like the missing year…let’s hope they don’t screw it up again....

 

Captain Swan bores the f out of me to begin with, but I can’t believe Hook is STILL keeping secrets from Emma. That’s only blown up in his face every.single.time he’s tried it to date, including two major times in the last, what, like eight weeks? It’s a good thing he’s a good-looking guy, because he obviously doesn’t have the brains God gave a housefly. Also, he’s even more boring now than he used to be, which is saying something. Really the contrived stupidity was again out in full force tonight on all fronts.

 

Though Regina and the book/Author plot=STILL THE STUPIDEST.

 

I did have to cackle when Ursula and Cruella were reminding Regina of her evil in front of Henry--it was a total dick move, but it’s the kind of thing Regina usually does to other people, so I loved seeing the shoe on the other foot. But seriously, Regina is still such a jerk. I wanted to smack her in the Pinocchio scene--what an ass. I don’t care if she apologized, it doesn’t take away from the fact that she was like two minutes away from assaulting that kid. I’m REALLY supposed to be rooting for her, show? I loved Gepetto and Regina dropping truth bombs on each other, though. It’s LONG past time SOMEONE called both of them out on their culpability.

 

Every time Regina blathers on about her happy ending I roll my eyes. Like, the scenes are good, and Parrilla is selling them, and then the words “happy ending” are spoken and I immediately tune out. Regina still doesn’t get it. She doesn’t get a) that being good doesn’t automatically give you a happy ending and b) you don’t do good to get a happy ending, you do good because it’s the right thing to do. If this show had better writers I would be hopeful that that’s what this storyline was supposed to teach her, but, well. These writers. (Also, the words “our secret” and “the truth” became that way this episode. Such obvious obfuscation just to keep the audience guessing or whatever. “Hero” and “villain” are getting close this half-season, too.)

 

Really the Queens of Darkness were misnamed. They should’ve been called the Bitchy Sorority Girls from Hell. I’m kind of loving their cattiness…wouldn’t mind them sticking around to observe the Storybrooke goings-on and make snarky comments in the background. But really, show, they’re pretty underwhelming so far. And I can’t believe Maleficent in the Enchanted Forest was so mellow the first time she saw Charming after he shoved an egg down her gills!

 

Poor Snow and Charming. Their pregnancies get worse and worse. Now they had to be told about their first child by the three bitches? Man, it sucks to be them hardcore. Exhibit A, Regina, for being good does NOT always give you a happy ending.

 

Snowing wronged Maleficent most? Has the show forgotten that Aurora and her mother exist? Could the show not get Sarah Bolger back or something?

 

Loved Snow’s monologue at the end and the way she was ordering Regina around. But the monologue should’ve ended before the cut-back to Snow and Regina. And oh boy, Rumpel is NOT gonna take Belle/Will well.

 

Did like Maleficent with the rattle. Nice acting there by KBvS.

 

I love Cruella's appreciation of Charming's looks. I also liked how she seemingly put a comforting hand around Ursula's shoulder as they walked away from Hook. I wonder what he could have done.

I...kind of would not be opposed to Cruella and Ursula having a thing. Reform them and let them hang around being cutesy and snarky! Neither seems particularly evil, so!

Edited by stealinghome
  • Love 11
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So, three things.

 

  1. Marco, you are my fucking hero.  I mean, my hero.  And I'm even okay with him being nice in the end, because I didn't want bitchy Marco while someone else is apologizing for their behavior.
  2. Captain Swan their last scene, yeah, plot point, but the whole I choose to believe the best in you and his reply?  Did not wanna cry at all over that.
  3. Maleficent with that rattle at the end?  Tore me up

 

The whole Snowing thing.  I need to sort of process that.

  • Love 9
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Two words I've come to hate: "Heroes" and "Villains".

 

So now Emma is Wyatt from Charmed?

 

I love how Regina ends up making everyone feel sorry for her. Do they not get that to this Pinocchio, August never existed?

 

What is a 20's era dressed woman doing medieval land? Cruella does not fit.

 

What was with the weird way the sheriff station scene with Hook and Emma was filmed? It looked almost documentary style.

  • Love 2
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The whole secret thing is a mess (because there's no way it's going to be as bad as they're making it seem), but what really angered me in this episode was Belle randomly kissing Will Scarlet.  I don't really care about Belle getting over Rumpel, but Will has a True Love (Ana in Wonderland, and the pair of them were my favorite thing about the whole spin-off), even if we haven't seen her on the main show.  Argggggh.

  • Love 9
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(edited)

Is this A& E's version of Beowulf?

 

Carlyle sold me on Rumple's shock.

 

CS looked nice, as did Snowing.

 

Lies are stupid.

 

One more week.

 

 

PS-- Writers, make it more clear whether Snow and David are using "we" to cover their worries about The Secret or if they truly think the Queens will tear up the town. I personally think it's just Snow &David, but I can't be sure.

Edited by Actionmage
  • Love 3
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(edited)

I have never punched pillows during an OUAT episode more than this one. This was such a horrible episode!

 

Pros:
* Ursula and Cruella giving Regina a sliver of self-awareness with that diner comment. Wish Henry didn't have to ruin it later.

* I'm ok with Ursula and Cruella just standing around making remarks on the action.

* Cruella's parking tickets made me LOL.

 

Cons:
* This is where the pillow punching comes into play - Regina and Pinnochio. She is such jerk! She gets mad at Ursula and Cruella for snarking about her past in front of Henry, then she openly insults an innocent boy right in front of his father! This Author plot is so mean-spirited! Kudos to Geppetto for standing up to her and questioning her motives. Right when I think Regina's made some progress, here comes snotty Woegina out to hurt little kids!

* When Regina came to apologize, I was slightly hopeful. Then they make it about her sad frustrations and Geppetto just instantly forgives her?! He changes his entire view just because she said she was sorry?! What kind of "redemption" arc is this?!
* This episode got almost NOTHING done until the last 5 minutes. Maleficent is back... yay? Then there was that whole speech Snow gave to kill more time. Did we really have to wait until the last minute to get some vague details on the "secret"?
* The secret was weak for being hyped so much. We found out NOTHING in this episode that we couldn't have just speculated on our own.

* Scarlet Beauty. Seriously?! They're going to break up two confirmed True Love couples for that? Like that kiss in the shop with Rumple watching was such a big twist? Anastasia, pack your bags and find out what your husband has been doing with divorcee maids!
* Snow and Charming are the worst liars ever. For Emma to just blindly believe them was just dumb, dumb, dumb. Say, how were you sheriff/bailbondswoman again?
* The flashbacks were utterly pointless. We found out nothing there that we couldn't have learned in the present.

* Hook keeping secrets... Recycled Plot No. 5059. Then Emma's okay with it because you know... we don't want to bring it up again until the Ursula centric!
* Frosted donuts. The Regal Believer dialog is middle school essay material.

* So to resurrect Maleficent, all they needed was her ashes and the blood from two people who had wronged her? Why not cut Regina's hand, find Graham's body, and bring him back to life while we're at it!

* This episode's pacing was all over the place.

 

I'm sure I'll find more to complain about the more I reminisce this monstrosity of an episode.

Edited by KingOfHearts
  • Love 8
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I think its great that Emma accepts Hook as is and vice versa, but why doesn't she really want to know more?  Shouldn't she want to know about his past beyond Peter Pan?

She said he could tell her on his own time, which to me means she expects him to tell her eventually.

  • Love 8
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The whole secret thing is a mess (because there's no way it's going to be as bad as they're making it seem), but what really angered me in this episode was Belle randomly kissing Will Scarlet.  I don't really care about Belle getting over Rumpel, but Will has a True Love (Ana in Wonderland, and the pair of them were my favorite thing about the whole spin-off), even if we haven't seen her on the main show.  Argggggh.

Yeah, but Rumple was also confirmed as Belle's True Love from her debut. It makes sense that Belle and Will are trying to fill the void left by their TLs with each other, at least until they inevitably reconcile with Rumple and Ana respectively.

  • Love 6
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(edited)
I think its great that Emma accepts Hook as is and vice versa, but why doesn't she really want to know more?  Shouldn't she want to know about his past beyond Peter Pan?

She told him she would wait for him to tell her in his own time which is probably happening whenever we get Ursula's backstory.  And she knows absolutely nothing about his past with Peter Pan either.

 

The secret was weak for being hyped so much. We found out NOTHING in this episode that we couldn't have just speculated on our own.

This show is written for people who aren't spoiled, aren't on social media or message boards.  You and I and everyone else who spends time in the spoiler thread or discusses the show had already guessed based on everything that Maleficent may have been pregnant.  

Edited by YaddaYadda
  • Love 2
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Remind me again why it's so "dark" to ensure that a super dark evil villain doesn't have a child? Isn't stopping evil procreating a good thing?

Yeah.  Sorry, show, but so far you're not convincing me that Snow and David did a horrible, horrible, unforgivable thing, and I'm not buying that Snow killed a baby.

 

Plus, not partnering with Maleficent isn't evil, or wrong.  She's not exactly proven herself trustworthy--partnering up with her would've been stupid.

  • Love 9
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* Snow and Charming are the worst liars ever. For Emma to just blindly believe them was just dumb, dumb, dumb. Say, how were you sheriff/bailbondswoman again?

 

Have I been wrong all this time?  I thought Emma's "super power" about lies was a real savior thing.  Has it really been a fallible skill developed in foster care all this time or are they retconning?

  • Love 6
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I did have to cackle when Ursula and Cruella were reminding Regina of her evil in front of Henry--it was a total dick move, but it’s the kind of thing Regina usually does to other people, so I loved seeing the shoe on the other foot.

Oh, but Henry doesn't seem bothered. As long as she gets him the chocolate frosted doughnuts, it's okay that she killed a bunch of people.

  • Love 20
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The whole secret thing is a mess (because there's no way it's going to be as bad as they're making it seem), but what really angered me in this episode was Belle randomly kissing Will Scarlet.  I don't really care about Belle getting over Rumpel, but Will has a True Love (Ana in Wonderland, and the pair of them were my favorite thing about the whole spin-off), even if we haven't seen her on the main show.  Argggggh.

 

Amen. Much to my surprise (and I think this is an opinion shared by many who made it all the way through the show), the Red Queen ended up becoming an incredibly sympathetic character and a real bright spot in that series. It was Regina's story done right, and she and Will were awesome together. They better end up fixing this one (and I wouldn't argue against having Ana on for a few episodes, but not so many that they end up ruining her).

  • Love 5
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This episode felt slow moving to me. Too much happened last week, and not enough went on this week to hold my attention.

 

I found myself annoyed at several things. I hate, HATE, when characters constantly talk about keeping a secret while around others or out in public. Snow and Charming aren't the smartest, but they should have more sense than that. The flashbacks didn't add much intrigue for me either. It was hard to get excited about a journey to the Tree of MacGuffin.

 

I cheered at Marco's tearing down of Regina, but of course he had to help the slaughterer (and that's what she is as Cruella and Ursula so helpfully pointed out), by giving her August's old stuff.

 

It was nice to see Will for those 7.5 seconds. Don't know how he and Belle hooked up since Rumple's been gone less than two months.

 

I liked the Hook/Emma stuff, but I'm greedy and wanted some more Hook dialogue/explanation in the last scene. I guess I will have to wait until episode 15.

 

I honestly don't care about Maleficent's kid. When Snow said they made her lose her child, I said "So?" out loud to the television lol.

 

Overall, the episode was aggressively fine. Which kind of doesn't cut it for me anymore.

  • Love 3
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(edited)

Yeah, that answer was REALLY vague. It was like when Snow was all "I ruined Regina`s life!" When it was really more like "I let a secret slip, with fully good intentions, as a little kid". I`m assuming losing Mal`s kid was a total accident or something. What a let down.

 

Yes! Go Marco! No wonder he hasn't been around in awhile, he would have been dropping truth bombs all over this place. I literally cheered when he said that he wouldn't have had to lie about Pinocchio if she didn't cast the curse in the first place. Thank you! Oh it was amazing. 

 

I knew it wouldn't last, and we would be getting an apology and Regina tears in the end, but I enjoyed it while I could. 

Edited by tennisgurl
  • Love 10
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(edited)
What kind of "redemption" arc is this?!

The Woegina Non-Redemption Arc! Featuring retconning/whitewashing/aggressive ignoring of evil/dickish deeds! And sacrificing all other characters, character consistency/believability, plot coherency, and general common sense (the Author plot) to get there!

 

Have I been wrong all this time?  I thought Emma's "super power" about lies was a real savior thing.  Has it really been a fallible skill developed in foster care all this time or are they retconning?

Adam and Eddie have said that it IS a real superpower, but it's unrealiable when used on people Emma has strong emotions for. Yeah, I know....

 

Henry was being creepy yet again--does that kid have no home work? Doesn't he ever play video games or play with other kids? He is way too interested in his parents' love lives. And Operation Stupid is still... stupid. How many hours per day does Regina keep staring at the book? Great job being a Mayor!

Oh yeah: I laughed and laughed when Regina was all "What are you talking about, I can't be bothered to keep an eye on the powerful villains who are threatening the town, I have ~MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO. Like stare at a book and yell at a 6-year-old." Oh, show. Never stop bringing the unintentional lols.

Edited by stealinghome
  • Love 13
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I bet the reason Snowing caused Mal to lose her child is going to turn out to be as stupid as a 10 year old spilling secrets, Eva ratting out Cora, and Snow getting Cora killed. God... A&E love demonizing the Charmings, don't they? Especially Snow. 

 

I cheered the Belle/Will kiss just to see the look on Rumple's face. But Belle did move on rather fast, didn't she? And what happened to Ana? Belle could have moved on with anyone else in town. Why Will? They need to reveal that at some point to make his presence and relationship with Belle meaningful. 

 

Henry was being creepy yet again--does that kid have no home work? Doesn't he ever play video games or play with other kids? He is way too interested in his parents' love lives. And Operation Stupid is still... stupid. How many hours per day does Regina keep staring at the book? Great job being a Mayor!

 

I do like Cruella's snark, but Ursula seems superfluous. She doesn't have magic, and her tentacles are creepily phallic.

 

I agree about Snow's nightgown--looks like a hospital robe.

 

The CS scene at the end was adorable. I think it's fine if Hook needs some time to tell her about his history with Ursula. He has so much guilt about his past. It can't be easy to open up about all of it to Emma, when they are just in the early stages of their relationship.

 

Mal shaking the baby rattle was touching (someone called that in the Spoiler thread). 

 

I guess Snowing have the Giving Tree chopped down to make the Wardrobe? 

  • Love 12
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I'm really hoping there's more to this "secret" because it was hyped and hyped and then ... just ... whatever. I don't understand how this secret is so dark that it can hurt Emma? I mean, why is it bad that Snow and Charming decided not to partner with a pregnant Mal and go on their own instead?

 

The Scarlet Beauty thing was interesting, but I don't totally get it. I never watched Wonderland, but I'm pretty sure Will had the Ana so does that mean he forgot about Ana or maybe he's using Belle to get to something in the shop so he can get back to Ana? Because Belle hasn't been double crossed before or something.

 

Loved the Captain Swan scenes! I liked that Emma didn't push him and made it more about when he was ready to tell her. But it better be something good considering Cruella was even consoling Ursula after they ran into the captain. It better not be something as "meh" as the Charming secret is so far.

  • Love 4
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Also, that Tree looked weirdly like Grandmother Willow from Pocahontas. 

 

Henry needs to stop acting like a little kid, when he is clearly a teenager now. Does he not have friends? Homework? Anything? Someone get that kid a fake ID or something, stat!

 

What the hell, Will? Why are you not in Wonderland with Anastasia, your one true love! Stop screwing with Wonderland and its perfect ending, show!  

 

Every time the Queen of Darkness show up, I feel like they're going to start quoting Mean Girls. or break out into a 1960`s girl group sing. 

 

Captain Swan are just to dang cute. I love it, but I know it`s not going to end well. 

 

I know I am going to re-watch Marco tearing into Regina about 10 times on repeat. It`s good to know that not all the townsfolk are drinking the Kool-aid. 

  • Love 3
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It was nice to see Will for those 7.5 seconds. Don't know how he and Belle hooked up since Rumple's been gone less than two months.

 

i know two months to get over the love of your life (that you are still married to). I think Rumple is totally justified in going all medieval on them.

 

This whole storyline seems to come from some idea the writer's had about, "hey wouldn't it be fun to make Emma evil?" instead of any compelling story reason for Emma to move to the dark side.

 

This author story is incredibly dull. 

  • Love 3
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(edited)
I'm really hoping there's more to this "secret" because it was hyped and hyped and then ... just ... whatever. I don't understand how this secret is so dark that it can hurt Emma? I mean, why is it bad that Snow and Charming decided not to partner with a pregnant Mal and go on their own instead?

 

I think the secret has more to do with what they had to do in order to make sure Emma turned out good.  I mean I'm hoping that at the very least, their motivation for doing that is because they know by this point that she will be on her own in a whole other realm where they don't know what's going to happen to her.  

 

This whole storyline seems to come from some idea the writer's had about, "hey wouldn't it be fun to make Emma evil?" instead of any compelling story reason for Emma to move to the dark side.

I'm not entirely sure about this just because Emma has already said that she felt she was not in charge of her life, which in retrospect, she hasn't been.  She made good choices after she left prison, but it was decided when she wasn't even born that she would be the Savior and would break a curse when she turned 28.  She was sent to jail because her "good" friend August decided it was time for her to meet her destiny because his ass was turning into wood.  What she told Rumple was the truth according to her, perhaps, but it's her truth.  So now, we have Snow and David manipulating her fate as well.

 

Besides, every single show has the good girl gone bad thing.  Hero walks the dark side, it was bound to happen.

 

But hey, she has Hook by her side who basically told her he would also always see the best in her.

Edited by YaddaYadda
  • Love 1
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I think the secret has more to do with what they had to do in order to make sure Emma turned out good.  I mean I'm hoping that at the very least, their motivation for doing that is because they know by this point that she will be on her own in a whole other realm where they don't know what's going to happen to her.  

I think that's what the writers are going for.  But, logically, how "dark" could whatever they did to ensure Emma's heroism be if it wouldn't taint her by osmosis?  If what they did was so dark, wouldn't that darken Emma? 

 

 

I actually did feel sympathy for Maleficent, especially at the end. Besides her tendencies to kill innocent guards, she seems to have a heart.

 

True, she's not seeming as dark as Rumple and Regina in their heyday, but whatever David and Snow did, it had better be worse than just not partnering with Maleficent. 

 

Because while Maleficent might've been thrilled she was going to be a mother, "mother" and "trustworthy" aren't exactly synonymous.

  • Love 6
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I'm really hoping there's more to this "secret" because it was hyped and hyped and then ... just ... whatever. I don't understand how this secret is so dark that it can hurt Emma? I mean, why is it bad that Snow and Charming decided not to partner with a pregnant Mal and go on their own instead?

 

I thought that the secret they didn't want to tell Emma was that she was born with the potential for great evil.  That she could have been a villain and unlovable so they did stuff to guarantee that she'd be a 'hero'.  Its actually the worst thing I can imagine given Emma's insecurities and the only thing that could really make me despise Snow and Charming.  That smug certainty that they are heroes and an unborn child could be the only reason they were thrown back from the tree ticks me off.  I flashed right to Snow protecting baby Snowflake from Emma.

 

It pisses me off that A&E are going exactly for this and I'm buying it.  I'm buying it because they keep piling on and I can only ignore it for so long.  Here's the thing, it doesn't make me think Regina is on more equal 'hero' footing with the Charmings.  But I'm not liking Snow right now and I'm not just going to shrug and forget about it when they don't deal with this in a satisfactory way and get distracted by something bright and shiny.

 

Two things kept me watching, Charming family and Captain Swan.  I'm not sure if Charming family as a reason to keep watching will survive this and I'm not liking this storyline enough to be ok with them sacrificed for it.  I wish I had some confidence they would explore the complexities of the dynamics they are bringing up as it would make me less worried but they never have bothered before so I doubt they will this time.

  • Love 5
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Well what can I say about this one except

 

~Boring, boring, boring~

~Boring, boring, boring~

~You don't win friends with salad~

~You don't win friends with salad~

 

Also, where the hell is Aurora?  Maleficent is her Big Bad.

  • Love 6
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I'm really hoping there's more to this "secret" because it was hyped and hyped and then ... just ... whatever. I don't understand how this secret is so dark that it can hurt Emma? I mean, why is it bad that Snow and Charming decided not to partner with a pregnant Mal and go on their own instead?

 

Because it's not. I thought the whole "secret" was freaking stupid. Because they didn't want Emma to be near darkness, Snow refused to partner up with Mal even though she's pregnant too.

 

Um...shouldn't the anger, and hatred be directed at Regina? I mean if she didn't enact the freaking curse to begin with, then Mal wouldn't need to have asked Snow to team up to save both of their kids! See this was exactly what people had feared when this spoiler was first outed during the winter hiatus that they'd make the Charmings seem "bad" just to prop up Regina.

 

But outside of the stupid secret that doesn't even deserve the hype; I liked this episode.

  • Love 5
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(edited)

 

 

True, she's not seeming as dark as Rumple and Regina in their heyday, but whatever David and Snow did, it had better be worse than just not partnering with Maleficent.

Because while Maleficent might've been thrilled she was going to be a mother, "mother" and "trustworthy" aren't exactly synonymous.

 

She seems to be grounded and has self-awareness. Her determination (to save her child from a curse) is much more logical and human than Regina's revenge spree or Zelena's Operation Envy. She doesn't seem like a person who would just go out and kill people for fun. She just has clear goals she needs to accomplish and she's not going to let anything stand in her way. Her scene with Snow in the bedroom was touching.

Edited by KingOfHearts
  • Love 7
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I actually did feel sympathy for Maleficent, especially at the end. Besides her tendencies to kill innocent guards, she seems to have a heart.

And isn't that this show's tagline? "Really good deep down, if you ignore all the murder"

  • Love 17
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I swear, I need to make a Bingo game for this show. "Happy Ending" would be the free square. Other words showing up would be "hero," "villain," "hope" and "true love." It's a good thing I wasn't playing a drinking game with this episode, or "happy ending" would have sent me into liver failure.

 

I admit I was getting sidetracked working the Sunday NYT syndicated puzzle ("Cruella" was an answer!), but didn't they say that Emma's potential for darkness had something to do with her great capacity for love? That was kind of what I guessed last week, that she had the potential to be a "love" villain, someone who was sent over the edge into darkness because of lost or betrayed love. That's where Hook and even Regina might be able to help because that's what started both of them on the path to villainy. But as usual, it seems like the thing someone does to try to keep something from happening is going to be what makes it happen, since I'm sure that Snow keeping secrets from Emma will come closer to making Emma feel betrayed, which could lead to the darkness, than the secret itself would. Would Emma even be all that surprised by a capacity for darkness? I'd think she's already faced that.

 

Go Marco! I didn't mind his softening all that much because, you guys, Regina apologized to someone -- sincerely! And she admitted that she was in the wrong! This is HUGE!

 

I guess Belle and Will are the latest Love That All of a Sudden. I know they were going for the "gasp!" surprise factor, but it's hard to feel too much about it when we've seen them interact once in the time he's been on the show, and that was when she found him passed out in the library. Though it does make Regina's moping look silly. In the past six weeks, Belle has moved on after learning that her husband was cheating on her with evil. Regina is still hung up on her boyfriend of two weeks.

  • Love 7
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(edited)
Her scene with Snow in the bedroom was touching.

 

Her very last scene was also touching.  It was just sad.  As someone who has seen what the loss of a child can do to someone first hand, I can't not feel sad for her.  The final scene was very well played with the rattle.  I really believe that losing a child is the worst thing in the world.  I mean we saw Snow give up Emma right after she was born and then Do Over be kidnapped by Zelena.  So it's not like the pain of that is exclusive to heroes.

 

And isn't that this show's tagline? "Really good deep down, if you ignore all the murder"

 

That was thrown in Regina's face twice tonight which made me feel very good.  

Edited by YaddaYadda
  • Love 8
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(edited)

 

Other words showing up would be "hero," "villain," "hope" and "true love."

I was so tired of hearing Snow use the word "villain" like some sort of slur. We can't trust them! Why? Because they're villains! Who comes up with these labels?! Does the Author send some sort of memo out to everyone?

Edited by KingOfHearts
  • Love 5
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I hope EdR and Socha gets paid pretty well for showing up for 5 seconds without lines. We can't even see how those 2 got together? Anyone get the feeling they hired Socha and didn't know what to do with him so they just stuck him with the other person they don't know what to do with.

 

Maleficent with the baby rattle was the highlight and believe me, this show is getting pretty thin on the highlights. I'm willing to put money on the Mr. Cluck scene from the premiere will be the best scene of 4B.

 

This whole secret thing is stupid. Did the writers forget that the whole "Savior" thing isn't even real in the first place? That it was a trumped up term Rump made up for Charmings and his curse? So they're just retconning it that Snow and Charming knew about the curse and the savior thing before going to see Rump? So why the hell did they go see Rump anyway? They wasted a deal on it and gave him Emma's name for nothing. And does this make Rump stupid too? He plotted this elaborate scheme to get in jail to talk to the Charmings but those 2 clowns were already way ahead of him?

  • Love 1
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The show wants us to feel sorry for villains and see heroes with feet of clay.  The show's point is that everyone has light and dark in them, and the choices they make as to their behavior will place them variably either in the hero or in the villain group.  It relies upon perspective.  From Maleficent's perspective it was perfectly fine to burn the guards on the bridge, because she needed to learn how to counteract Regina's curse and therefore protect her baby.  From Snow's and Charming's perspective it is ok to put Maleficent's unborn baby at risk to protect their own baby's future.  And don't all villains see themselves sympathetically - how else can they justify their villainous behavior?  There is no absolute good/absolute evil for this show - always a mixture.  OUAT has been preaching this from the beginning.  But - at some point one must draw a line where nothing can justify certain types of villainy and the show seems capable of forgiving the worst behavior including murder.  I think that is what many find objectionable about the show's handling of theses issues.

 

And I think they use the word villain because Shakespeare used it.  Just a guess.

  • Love 12
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I hope Snow & Charming did something to actively separate Mal from her child, because if it was just not partnering with someone who killed two innocent guards, it's just lame. I know Snow has a huge guilt complex but still. They may have done the child a favor. The last scene with the rattle was sad though. And how dumb can they be to not tell Emma the truth? The more time passes, the worse it will be. If they did something to help Emma though, why is it that they don't want her to find out? Just because she sees them as heroes? She's BFFs with Regina so...

 

CS is so adorable. I love Emma being so open and in love and HAPPY. She deserves it.

 

Standing ovation for Cruella, Maleficent and Marco throwing Regina's crimes in her face. I don't know why Regina cares about them mentioning them though, if Henry has read that book that tells those tales a billion times and Regina herself is making him read it right now!! But kudos to Regina for finally making a sincere, remorseful apology!

 

They didn't really wanna write the beginning of the Will/Belle romance, huh? They prefer shock value than actual on-screen development.

 

So I guess dead-is-dead except for: Rumpel, Charming and now Maleficent (and even Gerhardt and Daniel somewhat).

  • Love 3
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I actually did feel sympathy for Maleficent, especially at the end. Besides her tendencies to kill innocent guards, she seems to have a heart.

Yes.

 

But killing the innocent guards was totally unnecessary!  Think about it -- Maleficent is a dragon; therefore, she can fly!

 

Just, you know, FLY yourself/your companions across the ravine!  Hell, fly all the way to the tree if you want.  Make extra trips if you can't carry them all at once (I'm not sure how much weight dragons can actually lift.)   Of course, you could walk a ways down the trail, out of the guards' sight, if that's an issue.

  • Love 8
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But killing the innocent guards was totally unnecessary!  Think about it -- Maleficent is a dragon; therefore, she can fly!

Why couldn't the Queens just poof themselves to the other side? Maleficent was able to poof them all in 4x11.

  • Love 5
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She seems to be grounded and has self-awareness. Her determination (to save her child from a curse) is much more logical and human than Regina's revenge spree or Zelena's Operation Envy. She doesn't seem like a person who would just go out and kill people for fun. She just has clear goals she needs to accomplish and she's not going to let anything stand in her way. Her scene with Snow in the bedroom was touching.

Oh, absolutely.  Maleficent has a believable and sympathetic motive.  Losing a child is a horrible thing, and someone who loved her child would go to extreme lengths to try and stop that.

 

But at the same time, it's hard to fault the Charmings for not trusting her and not wanting to partner with her.  In the brief temporary partnership, she torched guards and was trying to intimidate them into doing what she wanted.

 

I can even buy that Snow and David felt guilt about it. 

 

 But, if Snow and David are at fault for Maleficent not having her child, there needs to be more to the story.  They need to have actively separated her from the baby, or this is just another case of "Snow and/or David get blamed for behaving in a reasonable way and someone else killing a person."

  • Love 5
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