S01.E09: Unto The Breach

[phoenics]

I'm just going to have to assume that Lucious and the rest of the family knew nothing about Andre's bipolar, because if they did know all this time, what might that imply?  That they didn't understand the seriousness of such a condition that they thought Andre could handle it alone?  Or they did realize how deadly it could be for him and others but they didn't care?  The idea that Cookie and Lucious would've known all this time but never bothered to really check up on him because they were much too into Jamal and Hakeem is just really...................hmmmmm.

I don't believe they knew.

[Dusty]

Thanks Badsamaritan! My psych classes were some of the most interesting classes I took while in school and I worked in a psych unit for adolescent offenders after college.  It takes incredible people to work there.

 

I don't feel bad for Anika at all.  She lost whatever sympathy I could have for her when she drugged Elle.  I'm glad that Elle decided to stick with Cookie (or Empire, we all know it's for Cookie).

 

 

And I had a hard time believing Jamal couldn't remember the words to Lean on Me, it's not like it's some obscure little song.

 

I believe that was just to get Andre engaged in it so he could concentrate on that to calm him down.

[Syndicate]

I don't believe they knew.

I sure hope they didn't!

[Luciano]

Wait - I missed this - what happened?

When they were all trying to get the white guy to sign a deal, he said that he was "done sharecropping, paying for your fancy offices and private jets." Andre was the only one who had a reaction - he burst out laughing in the back.

[memememe76]

i don't think the family knew of Andre's official diagnosis, but they (at least Luscious, Andre and Hakeem--probably not Cookie) have had experiences with some of Andre's "episodes". Andre probably sought help when he was in college, away from his family. 

 

As for Cookie, how young can someone show indications of bipolar? Would Cookie have been witnessed to any episodes before she went to prison? 

 

The elevator scene was great, but I thought Andre was gonna smash Hakeem and Jamal's heads together. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by memememe76

[aprilbabe]

Drunk Cooke was hilarious, I was dying at her drinking those dudes under the table.

About the previews, I watched a couple of time and paused and I think something bad happens to Cookie. You can see a horrified look on Hakeem, Jamal, and Lucious' face and Lucious running and catching her as she seemingly falls

 

Taraji said in the EW interview that someone gets shot and now Im thinking its Cookie

 

[Neurochick]

I think it's interesting that people hate Anika for drugging Elle but don't care that Cookie had a man killed because she "thought" he was going to kill her.

[Syndicate]

I'm seeing rising criticisms of the show moving too fast, dropping plot points, and not really giving the show time to breathe.  Well, I agree, and I've been speaking especially about the show's unpleasant willingness to drop key plot points.  I think it's absolutely incumbent that the show fixes these flaws before taping any episodes for season two.  It's interesting that this gets compared to Dallas or Dynasty.  The writers need to review episodes of those two shows.  They'll discover a steady narrative, complete with subplots and continuity that flowed nicely between each episode.  This just hasn't happened with Empire, but it can happen if they're willing to make a few changes.

[wanderingstar]

I hope Vernon roasts Lucious' ass.

 

For real! He mouths off to Vernon a lot for someone whom Vernon saved from a jail sentence!

[40Love]

i don't think the family knew of Andre's official diagnosis, but they (at least Luscious, Andre and Hakeem--probably not Cookie) have had experiences with some of Andre's "episodes". Andre probably sought help when he was in college, away from his family.

As for Cookie, how young can someone show indications of bipolar? Would Cookie have been witnessed to any episodes before she went to prison?

Shameless also has a heartbreaking bipolar storyline going on right now and I think one of the characters said the illness could present way into the 20s. So maybe Andre didn't show signs until college.. out of his family's sight.

Heartbreaking to watch that breakdown. So sad?

This was one fast moving episode. I loved it! "Bye Felicia" and take the "Fake as Jackie O" with you.

Lol! Cookie cracks me up!

Not only did Lucious threaten to send BBK's dad to jail.. he threatened her life. Watch out BBK. Don't meet Lew under any dark bridges near water!

[Luciano]

As for Cookie, how young can someone show indications of bipolar? Would Cookie have been witnessed to any episodes before she went to prison?

The average age it develops is in the early to mid-20s, so Cookie wouldn't have been present for that.

The elevator scene was great, but I thought Andre was gonna smash Hakeem and Jamal's heads together.

Seriously.

And Hakeem has such a little neck too.

[Whitley Trillbert]

I'm seeing rising criticisms of the show moving too fast, dropping plot points, and not really giving the show time to breathe. Well, I agree, and I've been speaking especially about the show's unpleasant willingness to drop key plot points. I think it's absolutely incumbent that the show fixes these flaws before taping any episodes for season two. It's interesting that this gets compared to Dallas or Dynasty. The writers need to review episodes of those two shows. They'll discover a steady narrative, complete with subplots and continuity that flowed nicely between each episode. This just hasn't happened with Empire, but it can happen if they're willing to make a few changes.

I agree with all of this. I think tonight's showcased all of those weaknesses.

[thuganomics85]

Speaking of which, I did notice Vernon was missing, which I found kind of strange.  I figured they would have needed him for all of this shit.  Unless I missed it, I wished they had a line where they explained where he was.  I wonder if Malik Yoba was just unavailable or something.

 

I did like that Anika's dad came back into play, in that by helping Lucious cover up his ALS, Anika can't risk telling anyone about it, because she would bring her dad down with him.  I wonder if Lucious is crafty enough to plan that far ahead.  Because, it's certainly one way to get a form of leverage over her.

[Malbec]

According to this interview with Trai Byers, a lot of the scene in the boardroom was improvised.  (FYI to spoilerphobes: There is some general discussion of Jennifer Hudson's upcoming role farther down into the interview.)  I am impressed and I do hope he gets some award recognition for this.

[ridethemaverick]

Lordt. Give Trai Beyers the Emmy right now. Or the NAACP award since the Emmys tend to overlook certain folks. Either way, that boy good!

So much happened I can't even get myself together enough to comment right. This show owns me.

[missbonnie]

I'm seeing rising criticisms of the show moving too fast, dropping plot points, and not really giving the show time to breathe. Well, I agree, and I've been speaking especially about the show's unpleasant willingness to drop key plot points. I think it's absolutely incumbent that the show fixes these flaws before taping any episodes for season two. It's interesting that this gets compared to Dallas or Dynasty. The writers need to review episodes of those two shows. They'll discover a steady narrative, complete with subplots and continuity that flowed nicely between each episode. This just hasn't happened with Empire, but it can happen if they're willing to make a few changes.

I think that this is exactly why this show works. They don't screw around and drag stuff out to the point where the viewer gets frustrated to the point of saying I'm over it. I love the breakneck pacing, the music and all of the actors on this show. I hope and pray that they don't break the mold next season and start doing what other shows do. Also, I don't know exactly where you are seeing these complaints given the fact that this show has picked up viewers every single week to date and been the most successful drama for a new show ever.

One thing struck me as odd tonight though, the company is under attack and it's all hands on deck, where exactly was Vernon?

Edited March 5, 2015 by missbonnie

[SimoneS]

Shameless also has a heartbreaking bipolar storyline going on right now and I think one of the characters said the illness could present way into the 20s. So maybe Andre didn't show signs until college.. out of his family's sight.

 

 

Many mental illnesses like bipolar and schizophrenia present their major symptoms in the late teens and early 20s, particularly in men. This is why parents are usually the last to know when their college children begin to suffer from mental illnesses. It is made worse that these children are young adults and their parents have no legal access to their medical records.

[Artsda]

Lucious needs to sue Anika - what she did was a breach of contract more than likely and he can literally take everything she owns. I hope he was smart enough to make her sign a non-compete clause.

He won't, he has to be wary around her. The entire family does, she still has the ALS card. The smarted thing Lucious did was threaten her life, shutting her up is what he has to do.

[Actionmage]

They'll discover a steady narrative, complete with subplots and continuity that flowed nicely between each episode.  This just hasn't happened with Empire, but it can happen if they're willing to make a few changes.

 

All soaps, daytime and nighttime, know when to let stories fade back so they can get your attention later. I haven't read anything as definitively "dropped" because this is a short first season. 

[Syndicate]

I think that this is exactly why this show works. They don't screw around and drag stuff out to the point where the viewer gets frustrated to the point of saying I'm over it. I love the breakneck pacing, the music and all of the actors on this show. I hope and pray that they don't break the mold next season and start doing what other shows do. Also, I don't know exactly where you are seeing these complaints given the fact that this show has picked up viewers every single week to date and been the most successful drama for a new show ever.

One thing struck me as odd tonight though, the company is under attack and it's all hands on deck, where exactly was Vernon?

A lot is being missed out on though, I think.  That's just my opinion.  I've seen fast-paced shows which effectively show characterization and continuity without dropping things that probably shouldn't have been dropped.  Also, the show building every week doesn't mean that some people aren't pleased.  Why isn't this show allowed to be criticized at all?  I like it well enough but I think it needs to do a better job.  Those comparing it to Dallas or Dynasty are wrong in many ways, I think.  Those two shows did it better.  Just sayin.'

Edited March 5, 2015 by Syndicate

[missbonnie]

See, I loved both Dynasty and Dallas, but I think Empire is a completely different animal. I absolutely believe that people are free to critique any show that they watch. I do think that when it comes to this show that the ratings speak volumes about what people think.

[memememe76]

I think Andre confronting Lucsious of the murder at the end is an excellent example of a plot point that seemed to be dropped but wasn't dropped. 

 

I enjoyed Dynasty and Dallas too, but Dallas in its first two seasons or so were extremely episodic. Anyone recall any lingering affects from that hostage takeover from season one? Dynasty had a pretty tight first season, but not nearly as tight in later seasons. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by memememe76

[Whitley Trillbert]

A lot is being missed out on though, I think. That's just my opinion. I've seen fast-paced shows which effectively show characterization and continuity without dropping things that probably shouldn't have been dropped. Also, the show building every week doesn't mean that some people aren't pleased. Why isn't this show allowed to be criticized at all? I like it well enough but I think it needs to do a better job. Those comparing it to Dallas or Dynasty are wrong in many ways. Those two shows did it better. Just sayin.'

Jane The Virgin is a great example of everything you just mentioned.

[SoapDoc]

 

Previous episodes have implied that Andre's meds are either not working or he's skipping doses, so that could also be a factor in why it happened so quickly.

 

They have also shown him drinking and he's also under stress. It's not totally surprising that the symptoms appeared that quickly.

[teezy]

Jane The Virgin is a great example of everything you just mentioned.

Jane the virgin is built off an offensive and very dumb ass premise . If the show really had balls the storyline wouldn't exist. Seriously in real life no woman i know would be cool with that scenario

 

but i agree with you that other shows handle being fast pace better than empire  its a little to melodramtic for me actually 90% of tv shows geared towards african americans are way to over the top for me and i'm black lol.  It like black tv shows forget that its not either hood, or super religious black people their are regualr everyday black people dammit. Even this show is just stereotype after stereotype and it supposedly produced by a black man.

 

Andre is interesting but without his bipolar disorder dude would be very boring he could gain alot more depth if this show had better writers.

[wanderingstar]

Loved the elevator scene with the three brothers.

 

This was another example of how this show can surprise me. From the previews, I thought that scene was going to end with the brothers just fighting each other. Instead, it turned into one of the most moving scenes of the series.

[teezy]

i don't think the family knew of Andre's official diagnosis, but they (at least Luscious, Andre and Hakeem--probably not Cookie) have had experiences with some of Andre's "episodes". Andre probably sought help when he was in college, away from his family. 

 

As for Cookie, how young can someone show indications of bipolar? Would Cookie have been witnessed to any episodes before she went to prison? 

 

The elevator scene was great, but I thought Andre was gonna smash Hakeem and Jamal's heads together. 

this whole scenario is probably based off the stereotype alot of black families seemed to dismiss mental illness

 

i see this alot in real life to the go to answer for black families dealing with thoughts of suicide , depression etc  is always pray on it  instead of going to see professional help. I use to work in the church and every time anyone had these type of issues htere would be a let's pray for them  not let's refer them to a professional who can actually help them with thewir problem.

 

it doesn't help the term "mentally ill"  has a stigma associated with it that nobody wants

This was another example of how this show can surprise me. From the previews, I thought that scene was going to end with the brothers just fighting each other. Instead, it turned into one of the most moving scenes of the series.

I loved that scene but honestly i thought Andre was going to harm his brothers

 

like seriously talk about a horror movie when they were first in that elevator dude look like he could snap at any moment.  The whole expression nad look he had would be perfect for a horror movie

[Kendall]

I think it's interesting that people hate Anika for drugging Elle but don't care that Cookie had a man killed because she "thought" he was going to kill her.

 

If Cookie had Anika killed or even talked about having her killed, I'd be looking at her sideways. However, she had a guy killed that was living a life where he knew that at any moment ... someone could finally buck up and try to kill him as he apparently killed many people prior to that night. That's that world, so he got got, before she did.

 

In regards to the pace of the show, yeah, I'm one of the ones "complaining," but that is because they've done so well with writing what they have, that I want to see what they've left out. I do hope that both Taraji and Terrence will reconsider their hard stance on how many episodes they are willing to do because I wanted to see:

 

• Porsha telling Cookie that Anika approached her.
• More of the hashing out what went wrong with Cookie and Hakeem while she was away and the reconciliation.
• How Cookie found out that Anika was working with Berretti.
• Anika plotting and planning with some of Empire's staff as they were escorting people out of the door.
• A longer scene with Rhonda fighting for Andre as they had him in a glass cage with no privacy and "fighting" Andre to get him to calm down.

 

And a few other things. It's a great show. I'm greedy.

[EyesGlazed]

I effing love this show so much and I can't believe there are only 2 episodes left this season.

 

What acting.  Andre's crackups in the elevator and the boardroom were so incredibly moving and well done.  I also like that the episode showed the "up" side of Andre's bipolar illness too, when he's motor mouthing ideas at the "sharecropper" guy and they're good ideas and he basically saves the day.  His manic side is so different from his usual buttoned-up, corporate image.  Also:  poor Rhonda.

 

Cookie being stuffed into the car with her booties in the air crooning "take my cookies" to Hot Security Man was hilarious.  

 

Glad Tiana's back.  I hope she becomes something like a daughter in the Lyons family, and it kind of looks like that's where things are heading.  Cookie and Luscious both like her.  Hakeem was honest with her and now they may have a good platonic relationship.  Speaking of which, bravo Hakeem, little man you may be growing up!

[maraleia]

I love that they are finding really nondescript places to film the exteriors (Marina Towers aerial shot non-withstanding) so it looks like it takes place in NYC and the environs and not Chicago. Rock on location scouts...you're doing a superior job unlike the production team behind The Good Wife (that get's Chicago so damn wrong all the time)

Andre, Jamal and Hakeem in the elevator was the best. They play so well off of each other.

[Rick Kitchen]

Damn, that duet between Estelle and Jussy was so pretty.  Jussy's killing it with his singing. Is this the only episode Estelle is in?

 

I love Ghetto Ass Studios.  They still have bullet holes in the door glass.

 

Lucious ignoring Jamal's phone calls was absolutely ridiculous.  His homophobia is blinding him. Did he not want to sign Delphine just because she was Jamal's project?

 

Man, that white outfit with the black lines that Taraji was wearing tonight was awesome.

 

That ending song.  I can't even.

[Syndicate]

Only two episodes left of season one, but I've got some hot actor/character additions for season two.  I said several pages back that a rival family should be given a shot with the Lyon family.  In addition to Lucious, Anika, Vernon, Rhonda, Andre, Hakeem, Jamal, and Cookie all returning, let's introduce:

 

1.)  Wesley Snipes as "Tyrone McMillan."  Lucious' not nearly as wealthy record label rival.

 

2.)  Vivica A Fox as "Tara Davis-McMillan."  Tyrone's semi-classy wife.

 

3.)  Tanisha Lynn as "Stylish Davis."  Tara's spunky and stylish daughter from a previous relationship.

 

4.)  Gabrielle Union as "Sheila McMillan."  Tyrone's headstrong daughter from a previous relationship.

 

5.)  Lance Gross as "Houston McMillan."  Tyrone's bisexual hot-headed nephew who takes an interest in Jamal much to his uncle's chagrin.

 

 

Recurring characters:

 

1.)  Idris Elba as "Jovan Britton."  Sheila's dashing on again/off again devious bad boy with an accent and with somewhat of a heart of gold.

 

2.)  Michael Muhney as Eliot "Eli" Wentworth.  Rhonda's Ivy League college ex.  He's slick and smarmy but has Rhonda's back.

 

3.)  Veronica Redd as "Veronica Lyon."  Lucious' part glamorous, part bad mamma jamma mama.

[Nanrad]

Realistically I have a hard time believing that Andre would dovetail that quickly.  Like he stopped taking his meds that morning.  It was what? Two days at most?  It takes longer than that for it to be out of your system.  Also, I'm confused.  Did Lucious know all along that Andre's bipolar?  Who else knows?  If it's not a secret why act like it is? And poor Rhonda.  She was in it for like five seconds but man.  Can someone give them both a hug now?!?!

 

I started off the episode cheering for Porche and then ending it with "Oh, Andre."

The show has established that Andre hasn't been keeping up with consistently taking his medication, and then altogether stopped taking them. Someone who is more familiar elaborated that it can happen that quickly as well. 

 

I love Cookie even though she's too much at times. I didn't like what they did to Annika's character. Way to demonize an educated, classy, non hood woman of color.

I think Annika's characterization is far more complexed than this. Most, in not all, of her motivation centered around Lucious; she was either trying to prove her importance as a key figure at the label or keeping his attention on her. Annika isn't an inherently bad person, but she is very insecure and let that get the best of her. She felt threatened by Cookie and for good reason, but she went about it all wrong. We saw she had the best interest for Lucious and his company, and then reached her tipping point due to Cookie's increased importance as well as him cheating after he proposed and after promising to stop messing around with her. Not to mention, the other women he cheated with as well. 

 

This is a soap tho, I doubt anyone will stay pure throughout this series regardless of class, race, and so forth.

 

And I had a hard time believing Jamal couldn't remember the words to Lean on Me, it's not like it's some obscure little song.

Even if he lied about it to motivate Andre to sing, which seems like he did, it earned a serious side eye from me. Even if you don't know all of the lyrics, you know the chorus and especially considering the fact that it was a popular song and he's a profession musician. 

 

I think it's interesting that people hate Anika for drugging Elle but don't care that Cookie had a man killed because she "thought" he was going to kill her.

Two VASTLY different things with two VASTLY different motivations. There is no reason to hate Cookie for what she did. 

 

Anika drugged a person who was sober for the first time in years and trying to get her career back on track all because of some petty war she had going on with Cookie. She fucked up another person's sobriety after they struggled to become clean. Like drug addiction is a serious issue. It is terrible that Cookie took another person's life, but it was because she thought someone was trying to take her life. Cookie couldn't play the waiting game unless she wanted to get popped. She grew up on the streets and wasn't taking any chances. It was terrible, but I can't hate her for that because she was honestly scared for her life. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Nanrad

[BestestAuntEver]

Second watch....

Did I hear right when Hakeem, said his friend had some C4 and they were going to go blow up Creedmoor? If true, I'm happy everyone looked at him like he was crazy.

The producer at Ghetto ass studio also mention how his cousin's heart stopped after drinking half of what Coke had drank.

I caught the words Cookie was saying to herself walking out of that ghetto ass studio. I'm paraphrasing but she was mumbling about being to old to hang with the young folks like that.

Andre's scenes were just as powerful the second time around.

Ugh, I can't wait for next week.

Edited March 5, 2015 by BestestAuntEver

[Kendall]

Only two episodes left of season one, but I've got some hot actor/character additions for season two.  I said several pages back that a rival family should be given a shot with the Lyon family.  In addition to Lucious, Anika, Vernon, Rhonda, Andre, Hakeem, Jamal, and Cookie all returning, let's introduce:

 

1.)  Wesley Snipes as "Tyrone McMillan."  Lucious' not nearly as wealthy record label rival.

 

2.)  Vivica A Fox as "Tara Davis-McMillan."  Tyrone's semi-classy wife.

 

3.)  Tanisha Lynn as "Stylish Davis."  Tara's spunky and stylish daughter from a previous relationship.

 

4.)  Gabrielle Union as "Sheila McMillan."  Tyrone's headstrong daughter from a previous relationship.

 

5.)  Lance Gross as "Houston McMillan."  Tyrone's bisexual hot-headed nephew who takes an interest in Jamal much to his uncle's chagrin.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but every last one of these actors, (except for Tanisha Lynn, as I'm not familiar with her work) are the very ones that would've doomed this show before it even started. Their years in the industry have been long, but their talent has always been mighty short and I definitely include Wesley in that. If it ain't Nino Brown, then there is no point to Wesley.

 

Ugh, the endless neck and eye rolling! It would've been too much and I hope they never even get to see the set of Empire, much less a script with their name on it.

[coloradoqt]

 

 

How Cookie found out that Anika was working with Berretti.Porsha telling Cookie that Anika approached her.

 

When Cookie and Porsha entered telling Lucious about Anika. Cookie said "she tried to get Porsha to spy on me and Porsha" said  "I spied on her ass" (paraphrasing)

I think a lot of people are used to writers,directors, etc who wrote and directed Dallas, Dynasty. They told stories the only way stories were being told.

for and about white people.

Lee Daniels is neither, he is Lee Daniel. 

He is telling his story the way Lee Daniel tells his story, about lives of people like him,for and about black people.

That what make this show so different!!! This is what makes Empire, Empire.

A show that is breaking records etc, because of the direction AND writing of this show.

The only things this show has in common with Dallas, Dynasty is it comes on at night, has a large cast and the actors all seem made for the roles they play,(certainly in Empire) killer wardrobes and, oh yes music.

If you are looking for a  Dallas, Dynasty  remix,you ain't gonna get it from Lee Daniels.IMO

 

 

 

And I had a hard time believing Jamal couldn't remember the words to Lean on Me, it's not like it's some obscure little song.

 

Jamal started a song they used to sing as kids when life was happening around them. Andre said they were babies and inferred he was their protector. Jamal  sang the part he and Hakeem sang and then Jamal said to Andre, (think he said fool) this is is your part,  which is when Andre started singing "lean on me when you're not strong",etc they all ended up with " we all need somebody to lean on". I didn't get the impression  Jamal couldn't remember the words. I kinda thought they all had their part to sang and this is the way they sang this song. 

[GreekGeek]

I thought that Lucious handing off the signing of Andre's commitment papers to Rhonda was a sign of his acceptance of her as family, but you all are right that he may have a more treacherous motive in mind. I don't think he knew about Andre's condition, because he would have thrown it in his son's face as another reason he won't hand over Empire to him. Loved the scene of the brothers singing in the elevator. I'll be interested to see how his music therapy goes. I'm not sure why someone would decide music will help heal him--it could just as easily make him feel bad about his relative lack of musicality all over again. Or will it be an opportunity to bring out his hidden talent?

 

I almost felt bad for Anika that she can't hand Baretti his biggest weapon against Lucious--the news about Lucious's illness, because it would bring down her father too. 

[Neurochick]

I can't with Cookie. I think she is biased. She hated Anika from the day she met her, for no reason. I think Cookie didn't like Anika because of her color. So I can't totally like Cookie.

[NorthstarATL]

Well, that was good! I almost always feel that Taraji/Cookie carries each episode, but Jussie and Trai especially stepped up this time, and things really coalesced around saving the Empire while Andre spiralled. I love how quickly the show moves. Hopefully with Andre getting treatment maybe we'll find out more of his history, and his relationship with Rhonda might be fleshed out some. I'd hate to see her chucked out the way that Michael was. The group sing was really nicely done.

[DearEvette]

I can't with Cookie. I think she is biased. She hated Anika from the day she met her, for no reason. I think Cookie didn't like Anika because of her color. So I can't totally like Cookie.

I don't think Cookie dislikes Anika b/c of her being biracial, I think Cookie is jealous of Anika because she represents everything Cookie wishes she had.  She was free, with Lucious living in his big ass house, by his side at Empire for years and being a mother-figure to her sons.  She sees Anika (and rightly so) as a threat to her.  So Cookie does what any good Alpha Dog does, she establishes dominance.  I think Anika  could have been a dark sister and Cookie would have been calling her a fake-ass Lupita.

 

Regards the pace of the show --I think it is important to remember that tv storytelling today is not like tv storytelling of 20 years ago.  This is a season of 11 episodes.  They have to tell in 11 episode what Dallas & Dynasty got to tell in 23.  This is also an environment where shows get cancelled a lot more quickly  than they did 20 years ago.  And I saw people dragging Empire before it even aired.  They do not have the luxury of telling a slow paced story.  They also compete with & have to take into account social media and other platforms that access their narrative.  Also they have to be able to include songs. 

 

But in reality it may not be dropping pieces of the narrative it may just be piling up stuff for a crazy ass climax.  It handled Andre's bipolar stuff really well, planting seeds earlier and letting them sprout into the full fledged forest last night.  Also the trajectory of Hakeem & Camilla's relationship etc.  The return of Billy Baretti from a blink and you miss it appearance earlier, the continuing mentions of Elle, the flashbacks that are fleshing out The Lyons' etc.  And I don't think we have seen the last of the fall out from Cookie's hit on that guy.

 

And finally I do think a couple of the episodes did slow down on the plots a bit to build some character development.  Last week really was not plot heavy at all but it did propel a lot of character narrative. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by DearEvette

[Malbec]

I'm kind of OK with the pacing, although I do agree the show could benefit from slowing down and exploring certain things in more depth.  Put it this way, I would prefer this pacing over a 22-episode season with filler episodes.

 

I'll be interested to see how his music therapy goes. I'm not sure why someone would decide music will help heal him--it could just as easily make him feel bad about his relative lack of musicality all over again. Or will it be an opportunity to bring out his hidden talent?

 

I hope it goes well.  I think it could be really good for him.  But I really hope it isn't just Lucious being in denial about mental illness and thinking "my son doesn't need pills, he just needs MUSIC!"

[Grace19]

I love, love the three brothers in the elevator, my heart melted. I've always loved everybody in this show with Hakeem a little bit my favourite. In episode 4 Andre made me care about him when we saw how he covered for his father, in 8 he stole my heart when he had that gun to his head, now he owns me, he's my favourite now. I want him to get better and run the company with the support of his parents and Jamal & Hakeem as superstars. The actor playing Andre is so talented, he,s in the same league with TH and TPH. Ofcourse It helps that the actor is so handsome.

As much as I think TPH is a great, that drunk scene was not convincing.

[Neurochick]

I don't think Cookie dislikes Anika b/c of her being biracial, I think Cookie is jealous of Anika because she represents everything Cookie wishes she had.  She was free, with Lucious living in his big ass house, by his side at Empire for years and being a mother-figure to her sons.  She sees Anika (and rightly so) as a threat to her.  So Cookie does what any good Alpha Dog does, she establishes dominance.  I think Anika  could have been a dark sister and Cookie would have been calling her a fake-ass Lupita.

 

 

Cookie is an ass then, because what any self aware person would realize is that going to prison was on HER (really on Lucious), and has nothing to do with Anika.  

 

So far my favorite character is Andre.  However I wonder if it will ever come out that he sent those friends of Hakeem's to the studio where Jamal was recording to rough things up.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Neurochick

[GrtGzu]

WTF was Cookie and those dudes drankin' though? She was good and f***ked up...

[Luciano]

WTF was Cookie and those dudes drankin' though? She was good and f***ked up...

Looked like purple drank/sizzurp.

[TobinAlbers]

 

2.)  Michael Muhney as Eliot "Eli" Wentworth.  Rhonda's Ivy League college ex.  He's slick and smarmy but has Rhonda's back.

I want this. I want this SO bad. He would really fit on this show and be down the sexy and scheming even when he's not trying to win Rhonda back.

 

 

 

I thought that Lucious handing off the signing of Andre's commitment papers to Rhonda was a sign of his acceptance of her as family, but you all are right that he may have a more treacherous motive in mind. I don't think he knew about Andre's condition, because he would have thrown it in his son's face as another reason he won't hand over Empire to him.

 

Also, Rhonda is technically his next of kin so it would be her decision not Lucious, but I agree with others that he was passing the buck once again to someone else to clean up the mess so he could keep his hands clean. He was keeping his name off the forms so this couldn't be later traced back to him when he later uses Rhonda's actions against her.

 

You just know that Lucious is going to prey on Andre's insecurities by saying that that 'white woman' didn't care about him- she just signed a paper to have him taken away to be done with him and hide him away. And Lucious -even when denying the boy has a mental illness- would totally go as far as try to use Andre's illness against him by saying that Andre wasn't of sound mind when he married Rhonda and try to contest the marriage or even try to have it annulled on the grounds that she 'took advantage' of Andre to make sure Rhonda gets no control of Andre's estate or anything to do with Empire. And if he does that, boy, do I hope Rhonda comes out fighting for her place and her man.

 

Another layer to add to that scene: It would be an interesting thing to have someone realize (or Lucious acknowledge) that he really didn't know what to do in that moment because he was so thrown by seeing his son so out of control and on the floor needing 3 people to control him. He was stunned and slipped into letting someone else take control.

 

And another thing that broke your heart in that scene was when everyone was piling onto Andre and he was falling to the floor and he began to panic, like a drowning man going under for the last time he's calling out to Rhonda and reaching for her. That girl's his lifeline and it must've been hell for her to have to stand back and let them take him to save him.

Edited March 5, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[luckyroll3]

Did I hear right when Hakeem, said his friend had some C4 and they were going to go blow up Creedmoor? If true, I'm happy everyone looked at him like he was crazy.

You heard right!  And he said it so nonchalantly too, like this is stuff they do all the time, which made it even funnier.  

 

So no one is gonna mention Jamal's D'angelo-esque video with all that damn lip licking.  That was hot!  Where can I find that full video, lol!

 

And because it was hilarious: "That's my name!  Want a bite?!"  That whole scene with Cookie and Derek Luke was gold.

[Primetimer]

A brilliant opening scene unleashes hell on the rest of this week's Empire.

Read the story

[TwistedandBored]

I just thought this episode belonged to Trai Byers. The actor totally stepped up and played Andre in such a heartbreaking way that he almost brought me to tears. Well done!

 

I also loved how everyone came together. Seriously, I am glad the show is giving each brother and family member a time to shine.

 

Also, the sneak peak for next week looks amazing! I can't wait to watched it.

[CofCinci]

I'm a licensed mental health clinician who has practiced (and hold licensure) in 3 states. I can't speak for NY, but in my states family members can't sign you into treatment, voluntarily or involuntarily. It's either the MD, psychologist, police or judge (varies so much from state to state) -- or the consumer/client. So, I figure Rhonda signing the application for emergency admission is a plot point. Luscious will (eventually) use her signature as a wedge to drive between the couple.

From the crisis mental health POV, the portrayal of Andre's mood disorder is quite realistic. Yes, if you have Bipolar I, Bipolar II or Cyclothymia (possibilities for Andre), discontinuing your meds can produce immediate mood swings and other symptoms. I wanted to discuss the show with my friends at work --- but no one watches!!! What!

I cried along with Jussie during the elevator scene. His tears were real and unscripted. I want to see more of the brothers working together (against their monster of a father).

I'm confused by how all these recording artists can negate their contacts when Anika left? You've got Price changing his name to a symbol and writing Slave on his face when he fought to get out of his contract?? How can people leave with Boo Boo Kitty?

Another entertaining episode! I'm going to miss this show when it goes on hiatus -- but I have Jussie and his nude pic to keep me company.