S30.E02: It Will Be My Revenge

[Special K]

I kind of feel annoyed at both sides of the Nina/Jenn debacle.  These things really to shine a light on the situation with the disabled in our society, don't they?

 

First of all, just because you're disabled doesn't mean that people might not want to hang out with you for other reasons. I'm betting that if Nina were a hearing 51-year-old woman on this tribe, acting the same ways, they still wouldn't have asked her to skinny-dip.  They probably assumed that no older "mom" would enjoy something like that since her body is no longer perfect (though she looks pretty awesome, I have to say).  

 

And Jenn.  Sigh.  You're on TV.  Can't you try to behave a little more kindly?  If you haven't ever been around a deaf person, maybe try to give her the benefit of the doubt and try to adjust yourself a little? 

 

Having said that, just once, I'd like to see a disabled person come on this show and USE their disability strategically -- like use it effectively to manipulate others.  I suppose the world would be in an uproar about that since, ya know, a disabled person is supposed to be ennobled by their plight not conniving.  But seriously, use what you have!   The closest I've seen is Justin LeBlanc on Project Runway turning off his hearing to avoid unnecessary drama in the workroom.  Like if Nina can read lips, maybe she could "spy" on people talking from a distance (another Seinfeld reference-- they're endless!).  Tell your alliance mates that you have this superpower!

 

Maybe it happened, but I think Nina also could have been more forthcoming.  I mean if she sat them down and told them 1) how she came to be deaf; 2) what exactly she can hear and not hear; 3) how it affects her; 4) how people should treat her/talk to her/position themselves near her; 5) what kinds of problems she runs into in life and how people can help to avoid them, etc..   Hell, she is described as a "hearing advocate" (which, odd word choice there, but that might be the yahoos at CBS)!  Sounds like she makes a living educating people about hearing challenges.

 

And then she comes on Survivor and is all "Waaa!  Those girls don't like me!"

[Ms Blue Jay]

Also, they are much more awful towards him than Jenn is towards Nina. Jenn mostly kept her rude comments to the confessional, but Lindsey/Sierra openly laughed at Dan to his face. T

 

Agreed.  I don't love Jenn myself either, but Capital A Agreed.  Who is the one who is always making those snarky asides like she thinks she's in a Shakespearean comedy?  Except, she's not downstage or whatever the term is, she's saying it right in front of her targets!  The one who's like, "Is this real life?  Is this really happening?"  Sierra (?) seems to think she's been cast in a The Office/Parks and Rec type sitcom and we need her "Comic Relief".  It's not funny, and it's rude!  I can't believe there are people out there that are that socially tone deaf.   I can't believe she thinks that that's appropriate.

 

The closest I've seen is Justin LeBlanc on Project Runway turning off his hearing to avoid unnecessary drama in the workroom.

 

You're right... it was kind of a brilliant strategy, but not only that, it was very comical for the viewers at home.  

 

Designers:  (start passionately arguing over nonsense)

Justin:  (Rolls eyes, turns off cochlear implant, starts sewing) 

 

Love to see frequent Seinfeld references still popping up.  Perhaps I am more normal than I thought.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[green]

I just don't like Jenn. I can't put a reason to it yet, but she irks.

When No Collar loses again.I think Nina is next to go. She may be a bit annoying, but she committed the ultimate unforgivable crime of being over 25. Same thing for Dan on Blue. Why does Survivor even bother to cast "older" contestants? Probst's BS line about bringing together people "from all walks of life" made my eyes roll out of my head and under the couch.

 

Jenn showed in her private confessionals that she indeed did treat Nina like crap.  And she thought Nina must be used to "being cuddled' at home?!? No, Jenn, she was probably treated like a member of the human race.  A person who has worth and value just like everyone else.

 

Jenn is a law student who wants to work for the underdogs of society?  I don't think so.  If so it is in the abstract.  She will end up as a smug lawyer who will only patronize the downtrodden but never see them as her equals.  Then she will become disillusioned when she isn't properly "cuddled" and go off and join a big corporate firm and co-mingle with her fellow "masters of the universe."  She should have been on White Collars tribe from the get go.

 

Nina might not know how to play the game with Will but her radar was right on in what she picked up from Jenn.  And yes each and every season Survivor teaches America that ageism is not just right but totally cool.

 

Say what you want about Vince but he at lest treated Nina as a fellow human.  He was also entertaining.  Him being booted and Jenn staying was a total downer.  Season just got a lot more boring now.

[ghoulina]

First of all, just because you're disabled doesn't mean that people might not want to hang out with you for other reasons.

 

I agree with your entire post, but wanted to touch on this. Um....exactly. Honestly, why did Nina have to WAIT for an invitation to skinny dip. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jenn mentioned going and then Hail said she wanted to as well. Jenn didn't INVITE Hail, did she? Nina could have easily said, "That sounds fun, let me come with you!" I realize things are difficult for her, and I did get the impression that Jenn was being a bit insensitive (not the same with Hail), but friendship works both ways. 

 

 

As I said in my original post, it's just likely that Jenn and Hail would have formed a close bond anyhow. They're around the same age and likely have a lot in common. Instead of feeling like an outsider, find people that YOU feel a connection with and work/hang out with them. 

[Boilergal]

With that said, I'm not sure what Nina wants them to do.  I imagine this insecurity she has comes from this happening to her before.  She can't expect them to make all the effort though, this is Survivor after all.  She must display strength to show her disability makes little difference.  The other players are always looking for what they feel is the weakest link in the tribe.  Sometimes it's based on skills at challenges, and sometimes it's based on the Just ask Vince. lol

 

Every one enters that game molded by past experiences - you need to pack your best social personality and leave all the other crappy/creepy/needy/hurt/victimized personalities at home - no one wants to play with them.  

 

If you know that in the real world you have a difficult time socially you need to work it 100x harder when you meet your tribe,  or better yet don't apply for an uber social show and leave the spot for someone else.

 

 

[wonald]

 

Jenn is a law student who wants to work for the underdogs of society?

\You're right, because it's HALI who is the law student. Jenn is the "sailing instructor."

 

Jenn is 22 and is immature, self-absorbed, and snarky, but I don't think Hali did anything wrong. Hali tried to compliment Nina's top and even tried to comfort Nina when Nina had her temper tantrum, to which Nina said "Leave me alone!" Like a 13 year old. Except Nina is 51. None of them came out looking good, except Nina has 30 years more life experience and should know better. Nina needs to get the hell off my TV screen ASAP.

[Jobiska]

I'm betting that if Nina were a hearing 51-year-old woman on this tribe, acting the same ways, they still wouldn't have asked her to skinny-dip.  They probably assumed that no older "mom" would enjoy something like that since her body is no longer perfect (though she looks pretty awesome, I have to say).

 

They even said that!  One of them said something like assuming the "mom" figure wouldn't want to skinny dip, and the other said "I guess she didn't want to be a mom, she wanted to be a girl!"  Hindsight's 20-20, of course, but I thought that was pretty poignant and sensitive of them to realize that--wish they had said it to Nina.

It's Hali who's the law student, not Jenn.  I think Jenn was shown as being pretty insensitive, but Hali was just more nonplussed at the difficulty of communicating.  I don't have any problem with Hali so far.

And I agree with whomever upthread said that Lindsay (I think?) who just rolls her eyes and snarks at Dan all the time is worse than either of them.  Yeah, Dan can be obnoxious, but she was acting like he was insane or something to try to make underwear.

I'm glad they didn't sledgehammer us with the obviousness that it was actually useful for Blue Collar to while away the time playing basketball (crate ball, I guess), as it may have helped them in the challenge.  For once they allowed us to draw a conclusion ourselves!  

[Special K]

... and the other said "I guess she didn't want to be a mom, she wanted to be a girl!"  

 

Thanks for reminding me.  That was Hali and I thought it was particularly perceptive, and compassionate. 

[fishcakes]

I liked Mike in the first ep, scorpion eating and all, but he was insufferable in this ep. Like you really don't need to be collecting firewood 24/7, Mike. It'll be OK! Also, his voice is so strange. I feel like any minute he's just gonna lose it.

 

I agree with your entire post, but especially this last part. Mike sounds like a muppet to me. If I were one of the blue collars, I'd be wondering why Grover was yelling at me about my work ethic.

[eringogreen]

I think I can understand where Nina's frustration must come from, because it must generally be frustrating in life. But what I didn't like about her approach in this episode is that she tried to make the girls out to be mean girls and the other 3 people on the tribe got no blame or praise. If she was able to make a genuine connection with the other people on the tribe, she wouldn't be so concerned about her interactions with two younger girls. We see interesting and unlikely pair-ups on this show all the time, it's part of what makes it great. So why isn't Nina mad at Joe for not interacting with her or trying to forge a deeper bond with Will and talking about whether she feels their alliance is strong or not?

 

Nina used stereotypes and visually identifiable features to decide who she feels she should "fit in" with, when that's exactly what she doesn't want people to do to her. Then, she got upset because it didn't naturally work that way.

 

That being said, some of Jenn's comments were insensitive and I wasn't a fan of them. I did feel that Hali was making a genuine effort, and might not have known quite how to handle it.

 

Edited to Add:

 

Thanks for reminding me.  That was Hali and I thought it was particularly perceptive, and compassionate.

I had forgotten about Hali's insightful comment ("I guess she didn't want to be a mom, she wanted to be a girl"). That was a great moment and I hope Nina opens herself up a little bit more and we can see the group overcome the barrier together.

Edited March 5, 2015 by eringogreen

[seacliffsal]

Nina could have taken the initiative to invite Jenn and Halli to do something with her rather than wait (expect?) for them to invite her.  She seemed to expect others to reach out to her rather than having to reach out to others.  When questioned about it she stated that she didn't want to keep saying 'what?' to others.  That's not really an answer but it kept the responsibility off of her.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't get how it's insightful?  Is Nina even a mom?  And if so, why can't a mom skinny dip?  And those women are not girls, they are women.

[Special K]

I think what Hali meant (at least as I understood it) was:  This one time, she didn't want to be considered one of the sensible adults, she wanted to play with the kids.  

 

And her wistful tone said to me that she understood that it was perfectly normal for a 51-year-old woman to want to be a "girl" again, and she felt bad about not realizing that earlier.

[Calamity Jane]

Even though he seemed significantly dialed down this week, or the editors left out the creepier stuff, I'm glad Vince is gone.  There were others who may have needed to go as well, but I'm guessing between game strategy (Will's health, really?) and overall unease, they realized things would be better with him gone.  He has the makings of a strong player, if/when he can ever get that stalker/neediness/weirdo vibe under control.  Doubt it, though. Honestly I think that obsessiveness was what made him send Nina over to "check up" on Will -- Vince just does not have any clue when to quit.  With anything.  

[iMonrey]

Vince's parting words were as delusional as expected. "They were smart to vote me out because I was going to take them all out." Uh, really? That's pretty much what everyone says when they've been blindsided and try to save face. "It was a smart move to vote me out because otherwise . . . I would have won." Yeah . . . that's kind of how the game works, dummy.

 

Not that I'm sorry to see Vince go, because I generally do not enjoy the "characters" this show seems to love so much. But I think voting him off at this stage of the game was a dumb move, just as voting off So last week was a dumb move. Will and Nina were the obvious boots. Granted, White Collar didn't have much trouble this week without So, but still. It's all about numbers when they're still split into tribes - especially when it's a meager tribe of six. Weaklings should go first, that's just common sense. Will and Nina aren't bringing anything to their tribe and are the most likely to jump ship as soon as there's a merge or tribal switch. 

 

The fact that Max and Shirin are just so bohemian they think nothing of walking around naked in front of total strangers just further demonstrates how bogus this whole class division thing is. Clearly they could just as easily have been ascribed "no collar" based on their "attitudes toward life." There's very little to distinguish between Blue and No Collar, job-description wise, and I'm confident that the job bios of the White Collars are overly inflated and exaggerated for most of them. They cast the same stock characters every damn season, it's just a matter of dividing them up to be more or less physically balanced then sticking name tags on them to play whatever bullshit character trait gimmick they've come up with this time.

[fishcakes]

Even though he seemed significantly dialed down this week, or the editors left out the creepier stuff, I'm glad Vince is gone.

 

I thought he was just as creepy this week, but because it was directed at a man instead of a woman it seemed less threatening. I'm not even sure what he wanted from Joe; it seemed like he was saying that unless Joe admitted that Vince was the superior man that Vince would, I don't know, continue to stare at him from a distance of six inches. But I'm glad Vince is gone too, even though I really don't like Joe either.

 

Vince's parting words were as delusional as expected. "They were smart to vote me out because I was going to take them all out." Uh, really? That's pretty much what everyone says when they've been blindsided and try to save face. "It was a smart move to vote me out because otherwise . . . I would have won." Yeah . . . that's kind of how the game works, dummy.

 

Ha,  yes. "I lost because I was the best," will never not be pathetic.

Edited March 5, 2015 by fishcakes

[FineWashables]

 

Vince's half-assed new-agey bullshit was a whisper-thin passive-aggressive veneer covering an insecure, egotistical, paranoid, jealous, petty little man and I'm so glad we don't have to watch him forcing bodily contact on the women in this game for the next 33 days, or insisting people "acknowledge" him.

Brilliant analysis, Gummo.  Hope it lands on the front page quote section!  And ITA agree with Lamb18 about Vince giving off a gigolo vibe.  I got that too.  I can see him with "I'm enlightened, I see past your age and into your soul, I want to make love to your inner beauty. And you can believe me because as a coconut vendor, I naturally seek the truth."

 

Will's comment about water being the black man's Kryptonite was really funny.  That said, I was surprised that no one seemed to consider voting him out after his challenge performance was so weak.  And he never made any sandwiches -- or any move to get any kind food, as far as I recall.

 

I hadn't cared much for Halli but after she made that comment about how Nina just wanted to be a girl, she became one of my favorites.  I love that she got it and felt bad for Nina.

 

Got an enormous kick out of the guy who lost his bikini coming into camp wearing his shirt for pants and one of the girls asking "so does this mean you're going to be walking around without a shirt?"  With a look of horror on her face.

 

Who the hell wears a bra and no pants?  If you need to be free enough to go without pants then ok, but why keep the bra?  It really was an exceptionally naked effect.  Plus it made no sense.  You need some kind of pants to sit on jagged rocks,  You don't need a bra for that.

[Hera]

IMO, Will wasn't the one who lost that challenge for the no collar team.  Vince was.  He kept shooting and missing and wouldn't relinquish the ball to anyone else, especially not Joe.

To be fair, Joe was the one who took the initial shots and missed all of them, too. I think it's something of a balancing act when it comes to throwing—if you're constantly rotating players after a miss, then you're a) wasting time and b) not letting people improve as rapidly as they would if you just let them make consecutive throws. On the other hand, letting someone stand there, not making shots is also a waste.

 

I felt sorry for Nina. It's not nice to feel excluded (whether or not the people who did it were being deliberate about it) and I know from various relatives who have hearing problems that it can be very frustrating and isolating. However, at the same time, she came in knowing that her hearing was going to be a problem, so she also needed to come in with a plan for how to compensate. Personally, I think she needs to be extra gregarious—since it's harder than usual for people to communicate with her, she needs to take on some of that burden for them if she wants to be part of conversations. To be honest, that's true for anyone who finds that their tribemates aren't naturally drawn to them. She also needs to explain (if she hasn't done so already) and constantly remind people how best to position themselves so that she can hear what they say.

 

I also agree with everyone who said that Hali was clearly trying to connect with Nina and that it was Jenn who was being insensitive. In fact, this wasn't a great episode in general for Jenn. Yes, she got her wish and got Vince out, but I didn't think much of her performance at Tribal Council. where she made the same mistake that So did last week—announcing her alliance. I also don't think it will be lost on Nina that she was the intended boot, at least as far as Jenn was concerned. If Jenn's whole game is going to be so out in the open, then she's quickly going to become a liability to her allies.

 

And finally, a word about Mike: ugh. I would not do well being stuck on a tribe with a guy who woke everyone up so that they could get started on a long day of toil. It reminded me of what someone said about Trish from Cagayan—both Trish and Mike seem to think that the only thing that matters is work and the only work that matters is what they decide needs to be done. I'm sure everyone could come up with an endless list of things to do around camp if they put their minds to it, but at the end of the day, no one has won the game based solely on the fact that they gathered the most food or firewood, or did the most maintenance on the shelter.

[Special K]

 

Got an enormous kick out of the guy who lost his bikini coming into camp wearing his shirt for pants and one of the girls asking "so does this mean you're going to be walking around without a shirt?"  With a look of horror on her face.

 

 

This was priceless!  Like she couldn't decide which was worse:  gazing at his junk or gazing at his belly/hairy back.  What a choice to have to make!

 

Also agree with your (hilarious) analysis of the heightened state of nudity that Shirin managed to achieve -- I didn't know it could be possible to be more naked than fully naked!  If she was doing it to make those two amply clothed gents look like damn fools, then I applaud her.  Comedy gold!

[lilabennet]

 

And finally, a word about Mike: ugh. I would not do well being stuck on a tribe with a guy who woke everyone up so that they could get started on a long day of toil. It reminded me of what someone said about Trish from Cagayan—both Trish and Mike seem to think that the only thing that matters is work and the only work that matters is what they decide needs to be done. I'm sure everyone could come up with an endless list of things to do around camp if they put their minds to it, but at the end of the day, no one has won the game based solely on the fact that they gathered the most food or firewood, or did the most maintenance on the shelter.

The hilarious thing about Mike getting upset with his tribe playing that game is that there is actual value in practicing basketball-like skills when you are bored at camp, because there is always at least one game each season that uses those skills.  Then, lo and behold the very next game was throwing buoys into a basket.  I got a kick out of that.  I wonder if practicing baskets was Dan's idea, because he is a Survivor fan?  Setting up a game like that not only helps your team practice for challenges, but it also is a rapport building activity.  I am probably giving him too much credit, but if he did set it up, I don't think it helped because Lindsey has it out for him anyway.  I actually found that whole scene very interesting because Dan is an early outcast on his tribe, but he was clearly trying to be involved in a fun activity with the group to mitigate some of his earlier blunders.  Then, on the other hand, we have Mike being a tone deaf wet blanket.  I wonder if Mike's actions have changed the boot order.

[meep.meep]

My sympathies were leaning entirely away from Nina by the end of the episode.  I'm never a fan of people on Survivor who try and dictate to others how they need to be treated.  If she wanted to go swimming, just go swimming with them.  Don't wait to be asked.  

 

And Joaquin may be a douche bag, but in the last episode when he volunteered to be the lead, my first reaction was "No! Not the Eye Candy!"  The last few seasons, volunteering for that meant being sent to Exile/Combat.  And then he smoked this challenge.  Does he have a little Ozzie blood in his veins?

 

Go Will!  If you find out that someone else thinks you are weak, vote their ass right out.  Don't ask permission, just do it.

[JudyObscure]

They even said that!  One of them said something like assuming the "mom" figure wouldn't want to skinny dip, and the other said "I guess she didn't want to be a mom, she wanted to be a girl!"  Hindsight's 20-20, of course, but I thought that was pretty poignant and sensitive of them to realize that--wish they had said it to Nina.

I thought it was a further put-down. Snarking at a grown woman who might dare to want to have a little fun instead of just stirring the cooking pot for 39 days,  Imagine that.  If they had said  Nina wanted to have fun it would have sounded different to me than saying she wanted "to be a girl," as though Nina was jealous of their youth and forgetting her place.  I agree with those who say Jenn was the worst but Hali, after originally seeming to try a little with Nina was still part of all that . 

 

I'm always offended by the way every  woman over thirty on reality TV is designated the Mom right off the bat.  The men aren't all Dads and just because someone has had a child that shouldn't totally define them from that moment on.  I'll bet Hali wouldn't like being called the Student and expected to watch and learn every minute.

[Special K]

I'm always offended by the way every  woman over thirty on reality TV is designated the Mom right off the bat.  The men aren't all Dads and just because someone has had a child that shouldn't totally define them from that moment on. 

 

This is also true of that other despicable "reality" TV, the news.  If anything happens to a non-celebrity woman anywhere, ever, she is first and foremost identified as a mom.  Bugs the hell out of me.   

 

But it has always been that way, that women are primarily defined by their relationship to others.  To be fair, some women on Survivor make a very big deal out of being moms.  Nina is not (yet) one of them, though.

[JudyObscure]

If anything happens to a non-celebrity woman anywhere, ever, she is first and foremost identified as a mom.

LOL Unless she's over forty and then it's all, "Grandmother tazed by police in road rage incident!"  How do they even know?  I guess it all started with Ma Barker.

[Calamity Jane]

Nina is starting to remind me of the woman who cried all the time and lost her teeth in the lagoon.

Who was that? I seem to remember that as a pretty good season.  They are all blurring together (for me) at this point!  Well, I do have to sign up for Medicare very soon.  

[Special K]

That was Dawn.  She was a Mom.  :)

[wonald]

 

 

But it has always been that way, that women are primarily defined by their relationship to others.  To be fair, some women on Survivor make a very big deal out of being moms.  Nina is not (yet) one of them, though.

Yes, she is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lih4YXnrU_I

 

This whiny bint needs t0 go next week.

Edited March 5, 2015 by wonald

[LoLo]

NIna ruined it by questioning Will's health. She is not very bright, they had the numbers why throw anything to speculate out there? Vince was a bit creepy but I so wanted them to take over & send home one of the 3 that think they are entitled to win. 

[Special K]

Before going on Survivor, in addition to learning to make fire, and how to swim, and practicing puzzles, and getting comfortable sleeping outdoors, contestants should:

 

Learn when to keep your trap shut.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Special K

[blackwing]

I think I might be done with this season.  I don't really see anybody to root for.  I can't distinguish between any of the women and none are particularly memorable.  Too many of the guys (Dan, Joaquin, "I've gaht the bahdy" Bahstahn guy, Vince) are skeevy or just downright weird (Max, Plaid Shirt).

 

These reality shows always get criticised for casting too many "pretty" people and not enough "normal" people.  Well, if "normal" people is Dan with his hairy belly, hairy back and mankini.... then by all means, more pretty people please.

 

Joaquin has a French last name and a Hispanic first name.  He reminds me of someone famous but I can't think who.

 

Why do the men always have to walk around in their underwear?  In the first episode, some of the women were already in bikini tops.  Is it that difficult for men to be allowed to wear swimsuits in place of underwear underneath their show-approved clothes?  Does that mean that the show made Dan wear his mankini or was that his choice?  Why do we have to see Mike walk around in his too tight underwear to the point where it can be determined whether or not he is circumcised?  Yuck.  It's a good thing the men were given swimsuits in this episode.  Hopefully they will actually use them and not revert back to underwear.

[ghoulina]

oaquin has a French last name and a Hispanic first name.  He reminds me of someone famous but I can't think who

 

He KIND of reminds me of Dr. Will from Big Brother. Just a tad.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Before going on Survivor, (snip)  contestants should:  Learn when to keep your trap shut.

These type of people are not going to be cast on Survivor, primarily.  I'm happy that Will slipped through. 

[Calamity Jane]

That was Dawn.  She was a Mom.  :)

Oh, yes, thank you!  I see her square jaw clearly now.  She looked a lot like many of my husband's Minnesotan relatives.  

[Way Wes Jr]

That was unexpected.  I’m not complaining, I wasn’t a Vince fan, but that truly seemed like the worst choice of the three Will had to choose from.  Given the surprisingly high Survivor acumen we seem to be getting from players this season, I was surprised to see Will choose what I thought was an extraneous red herring thrown into the mix by the editors.

 

Forget the “collar” theme of tribal distribution; the interesting thing so far this season are the intra-tribal age splits.  (Okay, not Masaya, with the exception of Carolyn they’re all in the 27-37 range - but if you wanted to argue that Shirin has a more mature outlook, and fits better with the 37 year old Max and Carolyn ... well, I’m not going to argue with your promoting my observation.) 

 

Nagarote fell into an old vs. young split, (and I’m sorry Vince, but to Hali, Joe, and Jenn, you are old.,) and Escameca would have also, if not for Kelly being smarter than allowing that to happen.  Add the “no collar” attitudes of Shirin and Max, and this could be an interesting merge as long as we don’t end up with the one destroyed tribe being absorbed into the other two model that we’ve had the last two times out.

 

And hopefully this will lead to a reduction in vote-splitting.  Personally, I suspect the producers encourage it, by asking, “what if someone has an idol?,” during interview time.  Heck, this was probably the result they were hoping for in that encouragement.  (Someone going afield in their vote, not specifically losing Vince, whom they were probably hoping to mine for comedy gold all season.)

 

Masaya (Yellow)

 

No changes here, the scenes we had with them, (no post vote?  Joaquin must have had an inkling of So’s departure,) were of little help in diagnosing tribal alliances.  (And even if Tyler were to ally with Joaquin over nudity-gate, they’d be down 3-2, so that shouldn’t be happening.)

1. Carolyn, 2. Max, 3. Tyler, 4. Joaquin, 5. Shirin 

 

If Carolyn is forced to use the idol, she drops to last place.  And, as an aside, it occurred to me during the “previously on Survivor,” bit that if I took Max’s course on Survivor, and noticed that he didn’t bother to learn how to make fire before he went on the show, that I’d want my tuition money back

 

Escameca (Blue)

 

Winners of least perceived screen time for the second week in a row, tribal power viewing being limited to Mike trying to take bottom position from Dan by becoming a worker-bee Nazi.  Even though I could rank the top four interchangeably, and/or make no changes, I have a bit more to say on these folk.

 

1. Kelly (5)  A huge jump for not doing anything.  But, consider: She knew, from the first episode, not to tell the twenty-somethings to get off of her lawn, and while I can’t know if she planned it or not, but her group of four has all three of her tribes women, giving a possibility for the always feared XX-alliance to actually happen.

 

2. Sierra (1)
3. Lindsey (3) While I think she was overthinking Dan’s “motivations,” (I think he just managed to lose his underwear,) it was an interesting line of reasoning.

 

4. Rodney (2)
5. Mike (4) Even though he seemed to try to be the most disagreeable person around, and I consider previews to be red herrings, I think he will be perceived as the better “challenge” option of the bottom two.

 

6. Dan (6)  But not for lack of Mike trying.

 

Nagarote (Red)

 

Let us examine Will’s choices.  (1) Stick with the young folk,split the vote, and be in the 4-1 majority.  Downsides, betraying Nina, whom he felt empathy for, and being the definite #4 of that majority.  (2) Use your inside information of the split vote plan to blindside Jenn, be in the 3-2 majority of your tribe - and in a pair within that three.  Or (3) use your knowledge to blindside the guy you aren’t 100% on, betraying both the (now) dominant group of three AND your closest ally on the tribe.

Yeah.  Stick to trying to get acting gigs.  Though major props for “the black man’s Kryptonite,” line.

 

1. Joe (1)
2. Jenn (2)
3. Hali (4)  While they didn’t get out their target, they are now the majority block.  (A-ha!  it’s “Haley,” I was pronouncing it “Holly.”)

 

4. Nina (6)
5. Will (3)  Examine choice (3) in the above paragraph again.

 

BYE  Vince (5)  But not for the reason(s) I expected.  He received a much more favorable edit this episode, and had an excellent elimination attitude.  Some of the blame has to go on Nina, for telling Will about Vince’s reservations about Will and challenges, but rational self interest would have had Jenn in this position instead.  Survivor contestants: still doing (dumb) things to keep the show interesting after twenty nine seasons!

[Turtle]

Did I miss something because she is being lumped in with Jenn as having no compassionate and being a mean girl but I didn't see it at all.​

 

That's a good point.  I think I lumped her in with Jenn because the show sort of did, showing her in scenes with Jenn when Jenn was being awful.  

[Nutjob]

Will is now on the bottom of a 4 person alliance, when he probably could've been on the top of the other.  I'm glad to see Vince go, but Will made a terrible move there.

[EC Amber]

What I'm loving about this season is that we're on the second episode and I already feel like I know these people better than most of the previous season in recent history. Hell, I'm shocked i know more than 3 or four people's names! 

I'm glad Vince is gone for the sake of his tribe. I'm sorry he's gone because he was entertaining to watch. 

 

Will actually disappointed me. I love his game play, I love his attitude, I really enjoy watching him (and share Vince's concern about his health). But I'm unsure about his vote. He is definitely four out of four with the alliance he went with. If they picked off Jen, he was two of three (as he and Nina were tighter). It's too early to tell how that will settle out... 

Hali - she's my dark horse at the moment. She's quiet and off the radar... but she seemed genuinely touched that Nina felt left out. Jen truly seemed like a "mean girl"... which makes it hard to like her, because her glee at tribal was pretty damn cute. 

I'm ok with the nudity, but I'm a little irritated that it seemed more acceptable for Max to be nude... but when Shirin did it it was somehow less acceptable? The editing was rather offensive in this regard. (Yes, let's focus on her backside and her rash on her hip while we get humorous shots of Max floating on his back). 

Blue Collar seems to have their crap together the best... so I'm really looking forward to next week when we finally get to see where the cracks are. 

Edited to add: It just occurred to me why I'm reluctant to really like Joe on No Collar. He is Probst's seasonal crush who may get invited back in the future. It shouldn't be enough to not like the guy, it's not his fault.

Edited March 6, 2015 by EC Amber

[LanceM]

That's a good point.  I think I lumped her in with Jenn because the show sort of did, showing her in scenes with Jenn when Jenn was being awful.  

 

I disagree. If that was the case they wouldn't have shown that scene where Hali was trying to talk to Nina including a  confessional where she said she was a very nice woman and that she was impressed with her coming on the show to play. They could have easily left that scene out if they wanted to lump the two of them together.Makes you wonder why they included it. My guess, Hali goes deep in this game.

[howiveaddict]

Half naked girl reminded me of someone going for a pap smear.  " Undress from the waist down."  And ooh to her naughty bits down near the dishes.

[green]

It's Hali who's the law student, not Jenn.  I think Jenn was shown as being pretty insensitive, but Hali was just more nonplussed at the difficulty of communicating.  I don't have any problem with Hali so far.

 

 

Okay thanks.  I stand corrected.  I think Hali too could have behaved better but I agree she wasn't quite as bad as Jenn.  Jenn however is definitely Ms Smug of 2015.  A totally painful person to watch.  Why did Will miss his chance to be in the ruling alliance, keep the tribe strong for challenges AND get this twit off our screen all at the same time?  It would have been win-win -win for us all!

Edited March 6, 2015 by green

[Miss Scarlet]

Ugh. This episode of Survivor was awful, all around.

 

I thought both Nina and Jenn dealt with their conflict poorly. I feel like Nina is the type to stereotype Jenn and Hali as "mean girls" before even getting to talk to them and then constantly looking for confirming evidence of this whenever she interacts with them. It's awful to feel excluded, but she dealt with that in the worst way possible. When she and Jenn were fighting Jenn made a comment to Nina about how they didn't ask her to go skinny dipping with them because they had asked her to go swimming with them earlier and she had said no. I wish they had aired that previous conversation because if that's true (or if there were a lot of other instances where Jenn really did make Nina try to feel included, like Hali did) then I don't think it's fair for Nina to be upset at Jenn for being excluded. 

 

On the other hand I felt like Jenn was way too smug about her closeness with Hali and Joe. I think she secretly likes the idea of being "one of the cool kids" even though she would deny it because she would claim that she's soooo alternative and hates labels. I also think it's pretty funny that she is getting the "cool girl" role this season because a few years ago she totally would have been thought of as a weirdo. Can you imagine her fitting in with Jenna and Heidi in the Amazon? I can't. They would have acted like she was Flicka from Cook Islands (never thought I'd be making a Flicka reference again) or Courtney Marit from Exile Island. She's being seen as cool because we're at a point where mainstream society is obsessed with weird/quirky/alternative women and so she fits into the zeitgeist right now. But, as I said last week, I think a lot of it is an act with her and she tries way too hard to be so quirky.

 

I really liked Joe last week, but I was kind of disappointed with his attitude toward the whole Nina issue this week. He had a confessional before tribal where he was like (paraphrasing) "Nina needs to go because she's old, oh and she's deaf". Look, I get that what he's saying is true. But the way he said it just seemed harsh and completely dismissive of her. And it also made it sound like these qualities were just so awful and undesirable on their own that Nina needed to be voted out. He didn't clarify anything with the implications of her age or disability like "and so she struggles in challenges" or something else like "since we've had difficulties getting along with her it makes me feel like she could flip on us later on". Nope. She's just old and hard of hearing. Off with her head!

 

I loved Hali. I thought she was sweet and tried really hard to connect with Nina. And I liked how she said she did it because Nina's a "nice woman" and wasn't patronizing about Nina or the situation at all. 

 

Overall, this was the kind of episode that makes me want to quit watching Survivor. I hate that the show is so rife with ageism (and sexism). And I'm saying this as someone who is in my early 20's. I'm really tired of the assumptions that older people just don't fit in with the younger people and not just from the people on the show, but fans/bloggers/podcasters/whoever. And the worst part is that it's not even like it's explained by talking about how the younger players just have more in common with each other or are at a more similar stage in life.  It's not explained by saying "they don't along that well because person X is young and likes to talk about drinking and partying a lot, whereas person Y is older and likes to talk about their kids and career a lot". It's more like "older people don't fit in because older = bad and younger = good" and "ewww old people". I find that attitude pretty gross. (Side note - newsflash to all those people: they will be old one day too. And I'm sure they have older family members that they love. How would they feel if people were like "ewww old person" to them?)

 

And I think the fact that Vince went home really says a lot about how contestants shouldn't be stereotyped by age. Because if you looked at the No Collar tribe just by age then you'd think Vince would be in with the younger 3 and there'd be no way he'd go home so early. But age didn't account for the fact that he was creepy as hell. There are also instances (sometimes on Survivor and definitely on the Apprentice) where young people are stereotyped and there's a lot of young = stupid (especially female contestants). That's not good either. 

 

It's rare that anyone considers the fact that a younger player might actually have more in common or have a more similar personality to an older player, even though it does happen (e.g. Malcolm and Denise, Tom and Ian, etc). That happens all the time in real life too. I worked at a job where there were some other employees who were in their early 20's and a few who were in their early 30's. My closest colleague/friend at that job was a 30-something because her personality was so similar to mine. It had nothing to do with age. Maybe this is less likely to happen on Survivor because there is a physical component that puts older people at a disadvantage which might negate compatibility with other players or maybe it's because all the young people that are cast tend to be extremely similar to each other in areas other than age, which is different than if a tribe had younger people who were very dissimilar and thus, less likely to work together. But the show needs to stop acting as if younger and older people can't ever form meaningful relationships with each other and that young people should think of getting older as the worst thing in the world.

Edited March 6, 2015 by wudpixie

[BarneySays]

It didn't take long for the bloom to come off that rose,  Nearly everyone featured in this episode was reprehensible.  Starting with hipster douchebag media whore who fancies himself so special and bright, but survives solely on attention.  This is the kind of person in whose company I would refuse to be.  These special snowflakes drive me up the wall.  Can I even bear to watch him on TV?

 

The blonde on the no collars who seemed kind of interesting last week turned into a cow this week, What a smug little...  Another personality I would disdain if I met. 

 

The deaf woman was so embarrassingly immature that I was left slack jawed.  Who behaves like that- at that age?  Grow up, woman.  And then to be so tone deaf (pardon the bad and obvious, but apt, pun) in her conversation with Will.  Ah, Will, who telegraphs, I am not long for this game.  Why cast someone who appears so physically ill-prepared for the show?  And the prince.  I suppose the tween demographic likes the young douche, full of himself, type.  But this viewer certainly does not.  Even the Texas oil man who sounds like he's swallowed quite a few gallons of that Texas tea became insufferable. 

 

The mailman is certainly doing everything he can to make good on that promise that he won't be forgotten.  Unfortunately for him, he is incapable of contemplating that some forms of remembrance are not fond.  The only two who seemed at all interesting are the poor hollywood assistant who seemed genuinely unnerved by the pantless shirin and joachim, the not really white collar guy.

 

Clearly they are going to push the collar angle until we scream for release.  I don't think I will last that long, though.  This season took a real nose dive incredibly quickly.  Bad editing or bad contestants?  It seems like the latter.   

 

ETA:  I found Will's "kryptonite" comment both self-serving and uncomfortable.  He didn't fail at the challenge because he couldn't swim, but because he is so out of shape that he was too wasted to be able to concentrate.  It was his inability to work through the ropes that was his demise.  But better to make a self-depracating comment that invites the whote people to laugh at his blackness than confront the fact that he is obese.  Shame on him.

 

As for Vince and the coach comparisons, as much as I found him uncomfortable to watch (yet intriguing), he seemed much more sincere than the usual clowns like Coach and Philip.  He may be a mess, but he wasn't putting on any of that.  He seems like someone with some social anxiety issues who, as a result, surrounds himself with people who can accept his oddity.  I never got the sense that he was playing a role.  He was being himself, for better or worse. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by BarneySays

[Miss Scarlet]

Jeff was incredibly rude when he responded to Dan saying he was going to compete in the immunity challenge. Has all the hair dye Jeff uses seeped into his brain and made him forget that Rupert, another big guy, was strong and a good swimmer? STFU Probst. Now and forever.

[SlackerInc]

Before reading the thread, these were my thoughts as I watched:

 

Mike not only doesn't understand the Survivor sweet spot between being noticeably lazy and being a nagging pain in the ass, he also is wrong about blue collar necessarily meaning some kind of intense, workaholic Protestant work ethic.  A lot of times it is the white collar people who push themselves to work long hours, while many blue collars just are working for a paycheck and are very content to only do what is required to make that paycheck happen.

 

Surprised Nina is 54.

 

Joe is foolish to aim for a split when he isn't sure about Will.

 

Nina, WTF?!?  Earlier she was sabotaging her own game by blowing up emotionally, but that's more common and understandable.  To take a situation where she had an alliance that was pretty strong, and undermine it by revealing Vince's talk about Will's health, is unforgivably stupid.  What possible good could that do her position in the game?  Good lord.  (I noticed then at TC they showed her in conjunction with the word "stupid", LOL.)

It just sucks because I like Will the best on this tribe ("water is the black man's Kryptonite", LMAO), but his options are to be the bottom of the cool kids' totem pole, or to be aligned with the stalker and the idiot.

 

ETA:

 

[Jenn is] being seen as cool because we're at a point where mainstream society is obsessed with weird/quirky/alternative women and so she fits into the zeitgeist right now. But, as I said last week, I think a lot of it is an act with her and she tries way too hard to be so quirky.

 

 

 

Wudpixie, what does she do that is so "weird/quirky/alternative" IYO?  She just seems like a regular twentysomething woman to me.

Edited March 6, 2015 by SlackerInc

[cooksdelight]

I'm thinking Jenn may be getting the mean girl edit, showing us her worst comments and leaving out any good things she might have had to say during confessionals. She seemed nice and fun at TC. I'm going to wait and see what happens moving forward.

[ProfCrash]

I don't think Jenn is a mean girl and I don't think Nina is manipulating anything. I do think that they are feeding off each other and that they just don't get along. I think Nina was getting more and more upset about what she thought was being excluded and Jenn wanted less and less to do with her because of the negativity. Jenn was already in a bad place dealing with Vince and now she is dealing with Nina who is becoming increasingly negative.

 

Nina has her own issues that she is bringing into Survivor. She seemed to think that the people on Survivor would be supportive and inclusive. I have no idea why she thought that because Survivor is a game for a million dollars. Why would you think that people from a different place in their life would bend over backwards to include anyone, never mind bend over backwards to include someone who is harder to communicate with because she is deaf? Honestly, can you think of a season where there is one tribe where everyone gets along and everyone is happy together and includes everyone in everything? I can't. Nina could be a hearing person who is in her 30's and on the outs with people because of over all tribal dynamics.

 

Jenn didn't handle things well, Nina handled things worse but she came in with a weird set of expectations.

 

But I did not leave the episode thinking that Jenn was a mean girl.

[ghoulina]

Will is now on the bottom of a 4 person alliance, when he probably could've been on the top of the other.  I'm glad to see Vince go, but Will made a terrible move there.

 

I just don't know. If Will had gone with Vince and Nina and voted out Jenn, Joe and Hali would not have been likely to trust him again. And, in fact, that move may have even made them target him next. And, as far as Will was concerned,  Vince may have been wanting to target him as well - given what Nina told him about Vince being concerned with his health/performance. 

 

It seems, to me, that he's in kind of bad/low position either way. But at least with the way he did it, he might be able to salvage himself with Joe and the girls and make it through another week, should they end up at tribal again.

[Haleth]

I'm sure Nina was very confused about why Will didn't vote the way she thought he would.  I hope they show the conversation in the next episode to see her reaction when she realizes she torpedoed her own alliance by telling Will that Vince was going to go after him.

[truthaboutluv]

Reading all the comments, honestly as much many seem to dislike the young, mean girls who act like they won't get old at some point too, I hate when people are quickly pinpointed as such just because they are young and someone older does not care for them. I watched the episode closely, paid attention to what everyone else was saying and saw nothing hateful or mean girl from Jenn and Hali towards Nina. Yes Jenn's comment at tribal council about never dealing with someone like Nina in her life may have seemed a bit tactless but what I took from that was she was saying that maybe she wasn't saying or doing the right things all the time but it wasn't deliberate or to be mean but just that she's never experienced that before. 

 

Hali especially I think has been unfairly attacked. The only thing Hali said in her talking head was that she wanted to get closer to Nina, wanted to get to know her but that it was just a little difficult because she had to sometimes repeat things multiple times and you see the other guys, Will and Vince, saying the same thing. And while Hali saying this in her talking head you see shots of her and Nina collecting firewood together, her trying to compliment Nina on her shirt and basically attempt to bond with her. Then later there's a scene of Jenn jumping up and saying she wants to go skinny dipping, asking Hali if she wants to come along and they leave. Then Nina snaps about this.

 

Of course I acknowledge that the show is heavily edited and these people spend hours and hours together, just hanging around camp so it is possible there was more going on and more specific things that made Nina feel ostracized but I can only go by what I'm shown and what I saw in the episode was someone feeling sorry for themselves, then getting resentful of the others and trying to turn them into villains because she decided her feelings were hurt. After she has a big blowup, where Hali tries to comfort her but she rejects her, later after they lose she's saying to Will about how distrustful the three are and how deceitful and I have seen none of that. Certainly they are no more or less than the average person playing Survivor.

 

 And while this is going on, you see the three only talking about Vince and his insanity which they weren't wrong about and debating getting rid of him because they still need him for challenges and strength. I've seen nothing awful or so deceitful from Hali, Joe or Jenn while I found Nina incredibly whiny and on top of that, she ruined the game for herself by talking too damn much and then looking pissy and angry at Will after the vote, not noticing it's her own damn fault and poor Survivor skills that helped get Vince voted out. 

[Guest]

I was so glad to see Vince go.  Jeff looked mad about it.  

 

I didn't see anything mean about Jenn, either.  She was saying what I (age 49) was thinking.  Nina is expecting to be coddled.  

 

The two young girls also didn't 'invite' any of the men to go swimming.  Why should they have invited Nina?  It's a big ocean, Nina.  Go swimming when you want to.  That's how you play the game.  You get close to people, you make yourself fit in.  She was bitchy to Hali when Hali did try to talk to her.  She should've taken those comments and talked back to her, not corrected her ("It's my heel, not ankle.")  

 

Dan (or is it Mike?) is also terrible at this, if he's expecting everyone to work all day.  Awful lot of Survivor non-fans this season.