S05.E16: Amster-Damn

[tippytoes1]

Anyone who has caught Lisa Rinna on WWHL over the past years could have predicted she would eventually join the cast of BH.  In the beginning of this season, I found her extreme enthusiasm of shopping with Lisa V and her lunch with Eileen didn't ring true.  She seems to be well rehearsed in her THs.  I could be wrong, just don't feel she's showing her genuine self.

 

What astounded me last night wasn't so much the attempted face-grab or glass breaking is the fact Lisa threw WINE in the face of an ALCOHOLIC.  I re-watched and Bravo showed the waitress pouring wine, while Kim seemed to have a soda in front of her.  The entire act of throwing anything and following up with breaking a glass is ridiculous, but the contents she threw make it over the top.

 

I have been watching all the past seasons of 30 Rock on Netflix and one of the episodes focuses on "Queen of Jordan," a fictitious reality housewives-type show, being taped for Bravo.  One of the characters says, "Well who hasn't throw wine on a cast mate on reality tv," and that starts a montage of various actors throwing glasses of wine at each other.  The last scene is a woman in a limo with her dog and she throws wine in the dog's face.  Ridiculous, right?  It's being mocked as a reality tv stunt and here we have Lisa Rinna, throwing wine in someone's face and maybe even topping Teresa Guidice's table flip by doubling down and shattering the glass!

 

Brandy threw wine at Eileen and it was a travesty among the BH girls and some viewers.  Ramona threw a glass (or as she prefers, plastic vessel, LOL) and it got a bad reaction from the NY cast and some viewers.  After 16 weeks of highlighting her concern for Kim's sobriety, Lisa threw wine in her face and broke a glass.  To use a quote Lisa said about 50 times last night?  "That's not okay."

[copacabana]

Why would you assume that the "secret", if there even is one, is that Harry could possibly have cancer or AIDS?  I mean, seriously?  That's one heck of a leap.  

 

I was only able to catch the dinner and resulting fight last night.  I have to say, out of all the housewives on these shows, Kim is absolutely my least favorite.  She is vicious to everyone and will turn on you in a heartbeat.  Whether or not she's sober.  She is just plain mean and ugly.  If I were a BH Housewife, I would be banding together with the others and demanding that Kim be let go.  She is vile and disgusting.

AMEN!  That just blew my mind when I read it.

 

In fairness, though, what makes Kim's actions so despicable in all this is that, in this day and age, throwing out this kind vague accusation COULD mean almost ANYTHING! And she knows full well that low down and dirty speculation is inevitable -- heck, to her it's desirable if it means folks not delving into her world.  Adultery, sexual preference, money issues, illness, etc., could be the least of it in many folks' imaginations -- for real.  She's a deeply, unapologetically mean-spirited and irresponsible person.  She'll do anything to protect her turf and the sad remains of her reputation -- and taking the absolute low road in defending herself is just fine with her because sobriety and children and LOVE.  This is the true Hollywood -- as in Maps to the Stars mindset of this spoiled brat.  All of this leads me to think that, dumb as she is, she's come to fully accept at some level that her career is officially over -- never to be brought back to life in any real way ... That alone could account for the huge amounts of rage and toxicity that's she throwing out there.  She knows that as a working actress she's done -- (a hot minute on Revenge aside) -- and that this is it.

[Queen of Six]

When Lisa R was talking pre-wine smashing, Kim was just staring at her with this deer in the headlights look. I don't think she blinked once.

Brandi and Kim have such a sense of entitlement. It's uncanny.

Loved the bike rides. Loved Yolanda's mom and brother. GigI does look like her grandmother!

I lived in Europe for 5 years when I was a kid And have been to Amsterdam. Unfortunately, I don't remember much of it, but do remember the miniature city that was there (may have been on the outskirts?). Beautiful country!

Madurodam! I was there the last time we went to Amsterdam and may have pretended to be Godzilla...

[Sincerely Yours]

The thing is that this asshole is also their co-worker.  They have to be around her, contractually.  When she gets all Kim-like, what are they supposed to do?  I get ignoring it to an extent, but she gets personal and nasty and goes after people even when not provoked.  See her calling everyone stupid at the poker table.  Not a mellow junkie at all.  At some point people are going to lose their shit.  It's a pressure-cooker situation but reprimanding the victims of an asshole and not the asshole herself, isn't going to solve the problem, since the asshole then feels justified in being an asshole and will continue in their asshole behavior.

 

 

I said asshole 6, no 7 times in this post. 

Wait, besides poker night when did Kim initiate some aggravated ugly confrontation this season? When did she just go hey Imma just go HAM on these women and start the evening being a bitch just because out of thin air? The closest thing to that was her outburst on Kyle in the airport but where else has she, KIM cause some sort of issue and NOT the TOPIC of addiction that comes up cause these dramatic exchanges?

[slade3]

If I were Kyle I would never ever have a conversation with Brandi that did not involve tampons.ever. I think Kyle Achilles heel is her social game. She is very adept at playing the social angle. Along with that comes trying to desperatly to project a certain image and to hide things that she doesn't want known. I wish she would take a page out of Lisa Rs playbook. Lisa readily admits Harry's brothers were alcoholics and that her sister died of an OD. When you put it all out there It looses all its power. I so wish Kyle would get this and just speak the truth, come what may with her family. Kyle needs to know Kims sobriety its not a reflection on her.

I 100% agree with you! Whenever someone in my hubby's family brings up something they think will embarrass me about my career, etc. I'm totally honest about any recent failures/disappointments I've faced. I can't tell you the number of times I've witnessed open disappointment when they didn't manage to hurt or embarrass me.

 

Anytime Brandi tries to hurt someone, that person should mention any number of heinous things Brandi did to remind her she is trash. Any time Kim is cruel or vicious, one should ask her if she's had a drink. Fight viciousness with viciousness and it will eventually end.

 

I think the biggest obstacle in a conflict is keeping things quiet so that bystanders with opinions make their own judgments (that are usually wrong) and things get misconstrued until no one remembers the truth anymore.

 

LisaR and Eileen kept asking the other housewives why everyone was afraid of Kim. LisaR was in a car with LisaV and LisaV refused to give a straight answer. She just kept saying something like you can't go there, it won't work, trust me. Whatever. Why couldn't LisaV just honestly say Kim's sobriety is a major sore subject and Kim loses her shit in a vicious way so everyone finds it easier to ignore her. Lisa and Eileen could decide whether to continue being openly/vocally concerned.

[psychoticstate]

I can't give LisaR a pass because it's her decisions to continue provoking the issue that caused that exchange.

 

 

Kim was sitting at that table just ready to proceed with the night and here we go again about addiction. I honestly thought it was in bad taste to bring it up YET AGAIN. Not only for Kim for the other ladies as well. Lisa R doesn't think she's creating an awkward vibe for everyone else when she puts Kim on the spot like that?

 

 

I understand what you're saying but I think it's just how each person is perceiving it.  I rewatched last week's epi before last night's epi and Lisa wasn't trying to start anything on the plane.  She asked Kim if she was okay because Kim was giving her the cold shoulder.  It was Kim that went off on Lisa.  And Lisa apologized several times on the plane.  It's never good enough for Kim.

 

If Kim wants to stop making her sobriety an issue, then quit going off at people.  She came to that dinner ready to let loose on someone.  She was already looking pissy and edgy when YoFo started the conversation.  If Yo had addressed Kim's issues directly, I have no doubt Kim would have gone off on her. 

 

Lisa R has said before that it's her style to confront things head on and I think that's what she was doing.  Again, she apologized to Kim and that's what she was trying to do at the dinner.  If Kim had the maturity of a "grown ass woman" (as the Atlanta Hos like to say), she would have graciously accepted the apology and let the topic go.  She also wouldn't attack her sister for no reason other than the fact that Kyle was uncomfortable on the plane (with good reason, apparently.)  As was pointed out above, Kyle basically did what Kim did during the dinner with Camille seasons ago and when Brandi made the comment about Mauricio.  What's acceptable for Kim is not acceptable for Kyle - - or anyone else, depending on Kim's thoughts or moods. 

 

I used to like Kim, seasons ago.  But she's proven herself to be a nasty, humorless hag who is a true friend to no one.

[LotusFlower]

Kim has shown she'll talk about her recovery...

But will she talk about her relapse(s)?

Nope.

[GreatKazu]

In fairness, LisaR was having a conversation that YoFo brought up. With that conversation, LisaR decided to mention what she had gone through BECAUSE YOFO MENTIONED LISAR's relatives, not LisaR.  During that discussion, LisaR offer an apology to Kim for entering into her business.  If Kim had just accepted the apology, LisaR would have smiled and then the conversation would have ceased. In my world, when one offers an apology, the other person is either going to accept it or not. Instead Kim responds, "Well, you did." Oh my lord, YES KIM, SHE DID!! That is what she just finished fucking telling you!! LisaR told you she was sorry for getting into your business. She acknowledged it. Of course poor Kimmy can't just say, "I accept your apology. Now let's move on" because the girl herself doesn't know how apologies work since she doesn't offer them when she fucks up.

 

Edit: This is in response to the comment(s) that LisaR was poking Kim again about her sobriety.  I had posted in the First Look thread that I thought LisaR needed to just back off the topic and let sleeping dogs lie, pretty much. But, after watching the scene in its entirety, I have the right to change my mind after realizing how that conversation came about. It wasn't LisaR attacking, probing, poking or bringing up again to Kim about her sobriety.

Edited March 4, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Persnickety1]

But will she talk about her relapse(s)?

Nope.

 

What relapses?

 

Haven't you heard?  Little Kimmy has been sober for 3 years now....

 

*snicker*

[FlyingEgret]

Wait, so no one in the restaurant comes to see what all the commotion is about? Stoned! Lol

LVP has a sturdy gait when not in ridiculous heels.

Well Lisa R can easily sweep it under the rug if there is truth to what kim claims she knows.

Yeah she's from a small town, but c'mon they just happen to have an ex-flame "available"?

it's so small, they're all exes...  No?

[BlackMamba]

Hi BlackMamba,

ITA and I'm glad Lisa VP voiced her support for Kyle with this matter. I believe, like other posters here have also mentioned, the Richards/Hilton family is the elephant in the Umamsky living room.

As the whole world knows, the Hilton children, the behavior of big Kathy and Kims addictions are all out in the open. Normally, a family stands united and loyal in silence, but that train left the station a decade ago. It's time to drop the mask and admit the need for counseling and rehab. It's ok to do and it's healthier for all parties involved in the end. The anger aimed at Kyle is sorely misplaced.

Kyle has a wonderful family unit and a huge support with her husbands family and with Kyles friends. Kathy Hilton & Kim should not be faulting Kyle with Kyle keeping her focus on her children, immediate family and day to day life. From what we have been shown on camera, although editing is involved, we see Kyle going above and beyond while Kim treats Kyle like dirt. Gosh, when my kids were little my family involvement was limited to holidays because we don't live in the same town, and my social life was limited to my neighbors and the parents I see at athletic events. Portia & Sophia are still young plus Kyle has a store. Give me a break.

I'm happy to hear Kyle & Kim have taken another break. It's clear to see that the Richards are led by Kim & Kathys rules and Kyle is shunned when she doesn't toe the line.

 

Agreed.  I'm seeing something though.  Maybe that's what it is.  Kyle and her family have not had anything negative about them other than those rumors that Mauricio might like TVs in his spare time.  But Kathy's family, like where do we begin with those character of idiots from Paris to the son that acted a complete ding-ding on the plane early in Feb.  Then Kim and all her problems I think a few of her kids have had not so great moments.  Kyle did say early in one episode this season when they went shopping for Portia, "I don't want Portia to grow up to be a spoiled brat." Hmm telling indeed!  She must be referring to those Hiltons kids and Kim particularly.   Not to mention, Kyle's family doesn't need the Hiltons like that especially since Mauricio has his own real estate agency and doing hell of well.  Kyle also has her own business too.  I wonder does it annoy Kathy that Kyle doesn't need the same support or help like one Kim tends too that she cant hang that over her little sister's head.

[SwordQueen]

Wait, besides poker night when did Kim initiate some aggravated ugly confrontation this season? When did she just go hey Imma just go HAM on these women and start the evening being a bitch just because out of thin air? The closest thing to that was her outburst on Kyle in the airport but where else has she, KIM cause some sort of issue and NOT the TOPIC of addiction that comes up cause these dramatic exchanges?

 

Those times weren't enough?  lol  Limo ride, Poker Night, mediation between Kim and Kyle by Eileen, plane ride, airport, Amsterdam restaurant and I'm sure that's not the last of it.  Besides, this has been five long years (for us) of Kim's poor behavior that has been mostly swept under the rug, except for those few times when someone has just had enough with her bullshit and flips out on her.  She never takes responsibility for her behavior and how it affects every single person around her, and even one canine, named Kingsley. 

 

She's constantly, chronically involving other people in her drama, which does include her addiction, and then tries to skate on being held responsible.  If Kim had not relapsed and voluntarily taken someone else's medication and then, also, gotten into a car with someone else and verbally abused them, come into someone else's home and verbally abused a bunch of other people, then there wouldn't be anything of Kim's to even talk about.  She is the topic because she made herself the topic.  She can take all of the pills she wants to but if she's going to act like an ass to other people, then that's where the conflict begins.  No one is knocking on Kim's door asking her about pills and sponsors.  Kim is coming into other people's homes and television screens and then gets offended when people ask why she's acting so fucked up. 

 

Shit doesn't happen in a vacuum.  This is Kim's reputation and her recorded history -- she's an unstable addict who causes drama and then never takes ownership.  Every single thing she does is going to be viewed through that lens unless and until she corrects her behavior moving forward. 

[talula]

I agree, and it all reeks of producer manipulation. Do you think a restaurant is going to allow these women in, to have a fight, and not move all the customers out of the way like they did? There were no people anywhere near them. I would almost bet the glass Lisa R. had was candy glass that stunt people use.

Isn't it ironic that both BH and ATL both had the entire cast in a restaurant and a fight breaks out....in the same week??

I think Lisa R probably does know how to deal with addicts, but for this particular story arc in the show, she's been told to do what she's been doing. To cause Kim to be upset, and Kim being told to react accordingly.

If they didn't bring the drama every week, would we all be here talking? And watching it without fail?

ITA Cooksdelight...that "most" of what we debate for pages is a story arc in a show.

[msblossom]

OK, so one we know why Kim is so passionate about maintaining the the appearance of sobriety; her kids will walk away from her if she falls off the wagon. Of course that only applies to her drinking, so in that respect Kim probably lays off the booze. Pills and other forms of substance abuse -- she has never come clean with. I hope her kids get in her face about that.

I feel bad for Kyle, but the crying, whinging and co-dependency stuff leaves me impatient and cold. GO TO THERAPY. If the situation with Kim has that much of an effect on you then see a therapist for crying out loud! Why wouldn't you? I sound harsh and unsympathetic, but we've seen this play out over and over again for 5 freaking years. Doesn't matter what Kim does or doesn't do; put your big girl panties on and take control of what you can control and that is you. Over it.

[charmed1]

In fairness, LisaR was having a conversation that YoFo brought up. With that conversation, LisaR decided to mention what she had gone through BECAUSE YOFO MENTIONED LISAR's relatives, not LisaR. During that discussion, LisaR offer an apology to Kim for entering into her business. If Kim had just accepted the apology, LisaR would have smiled and then the conversation would have ceased. In my world, when one offers an apology, the other person is either going to accept it or not. Instead Kim responds, "Well, you did." Oh my lord, YES KIM, SHE DID!! That is what she just finished fucking telling you!! LisaR told you she was sorry for getting into your business. She acknowledged it. Of course poor Kimmy can't just say, "I accept your apology. Now let's move on" because the girl herself doesn't know how apologies work since she doesn't offer them when she fucks up.

That's how I saw it too. Kim escalated that conversation. She could've shut Lisa Rinna down completely with a curt "Thanks, so Yolanda where will we be going tomorrow?" She's made it clear to Andy what she will and won't talk about in a firm but non-threatening manner. Why is she full on Smeagol now?

[LotusFlower]

OK, so one we know why Kim is so passionate about maintaining the the appearance of sobriety; her kids will walk away from her if she falls off the wagon. Of course that only applies to her drinking, so in that respect Kim probably lays off the booze. Pills and other forms of substance abuse -- she has never come clean with. I hope her kids get in her face about that.

Why do you think it only applies to her drinking? I'm sure her kids have seen her falling-down drunk AND high as a kite. It's all bad, embarrassing, scary, frustrating.... Kim puts different definitions on what sober means and what a relapse means, but I doubt her kids do.

[Kerrey92]

My takeaway from that whole shit show is that Kim is far from secure in her sobriety.  She's acting more like an active addict.  

 

She cannot accept any responsibility for her behavior.  Thanks to Eileen for pointing out that Kim never apologized for poker night.  And she owed Kyle, Eileen and Lisa R an apology for that night.  Given what she says about her sobriety, one would think that she would have apologized as soon as she could (after her 5/7/9 day stint in the hospital) since everyone knew she fell off the wagon.

 

She cannot give Lisa R any rope with her concerns.  Whether its for screen time or a storyline, Lisa R is expressing concern because of HER direct interactions with Kim.  Kim was awful to her in the car on the way to poker night.  And let's face it, Kim seems loopy and doped up all the time despite her declarations of sobriety.   It's hard to know whether or not she just acts that way or that she's secretly using and not fessing up.  So Lisa R's concern and subsequent discussion of it is not so crazy.  And Lisa R did go to Kim directly at Eileen's to discuss it.  Kim should have begged her off there and told her to leave it alone.  She seemed to thrive on being the center of attention.

 

Kim is unwilling to accept HER role in the outing of her addiction.  She blames Lisa R for bringing shame and pain on her daughters by asking these questions.  Wasn't it Kim who took the pill she wasn't supposed to and Kim who allowed filming while she was under the influence?  KIM embarrassed her kids for a few seasons before seeking help so I find her argument specious.  Is there a chance that Kim was high or drunk at that dinner and that's why she did what she did?

 

Kyle said something in the doorway about letting the truth out or stopping covering for Kim or something like that.  I thought that was telling.  Maybe Kim is in much worse shape and she knows a lot and isn't telling.

 

Also, why is none of this sticking to Brandi?  I don't understand why Lisa R didn't turn to Brandi and ask her about their lunch conversation and the intervention talk and how she (Brandi) was talking behind Kim's back too.  And saying much worse and more hurtful things than Rinna.

 

Brandi's little outburst was laughable and I do believe Kyle when she muttered something about Brandi not being able to have a peaceful night.  Are we to believe that Brandi has no hypocrisy in the person she presents on camera versus some of the things she does in private?  They ALL do this to a certain degree.  Do I think it's a big deal that Kyle smoked pot with Brandi?  No, but I can see Kyle not wanting the world to know that.  Honestly, I would think that Brandi wouldn't want the world to know that SHE did that given her situation with her ex-husband.  

[slitz]

In fairness, though, what makes Kim's actions so despicable in all this is that, in this day and age, throwing out this kind vague accusation COULD mean almost ANYTHING! And she knows full well that low down and dirty speculation is inevitable -- heck, to her it's desirable if it means folks not delving into her world.  Adultery, sexual preference, money issues, illness, etc., could be the least of it in many folks' imaginations -- for real.  She's a deeply, unapologetically mean-spirited and irresponsible person.  She'll do anything to protect her turf and the sad remains of her reputation -- and taking the absolute low road in defending herself is just fine with her because sobriety and children and LOVE.  This is the true Hollywood -- as in Maps to the Stars mindset of this spoiled brat.  All of this leads me to think that, dumb as she is, she's come to fully accept at some level that her career is officially over -- never to be brought back to life in any real way ... That alone could account for the huge amounts of rage and toxicity that's she throwing out there.  She knows that as a working actress she's done -- (a hot minute on Revenge aside) -- and that this is it.

Okay but Kim's not the one who made that leap.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Kim AT ALL.  As I stated in my earlier post, she is my least favorite Housewife...and that's including all the franchises.  I was referring to the original poster making that leap.  If you look at the other posts about what this "secret" could possibly be, the majority of the guesses have been about infidelity.  I have only seen one post where the assumption was made that the "secret" was cancer or AIDs.  To me that's way more presumptuous than stating that it must be about infidelity.

[Neurochick]

I watched the fight.  Yolanda asked the women to share something.  She shared about her daughter, then Lisa R shared about her sister and explained why addiction and alcoholism is so close to her heart.  She said to Kim, "that's why I was hard on you," or something like that and Kim said, "yes, you were hard on me, you did get in my face."  Then Lisa R said something else.  Now, Kim was inappropriate with what she said to Lisa R, and then, because Lisa R didn't get the response she wanted, she went in on Kim and Kim went coo coo bananas, then Eileen said something and Kim shot back at her and suddenly she turned on Eileen.  

 

Kim was acting like...well like an addict and one thing I have learned, you can't reason with someone who's deep in addiction or denial.  

 

The problem with all of this is Kim is on the show and as long as Kim is on the show, they'll have drama.  As long as Brandi is on the show they'll have drama too.  Bravo knows that people want to see drama, this fight had been hyped for weeks, no months.  Kyle was on Access Hollywood last week talking about it and when asked what happened, she said, "You'll have to tune in and watch."  Just like this was a regular show.  

 

Kim and Brandi aren't going anywhere because Bravo wants to keep the drama flowing.

[SwordQueen]

That's how I saw it too. Kim escalated that conversation. She could've shut Lisa Rinna down completely with a curt "Thanks, so Yolanda where will we be going tomorrow?" She's made it clear to Andy what she will and won't talk about in a firm but non-threatening manner. Why is she full on Smeagol now?

 

Because girl is pissed off at, and embarrassed by, herself.  And when anyone else brings attention to that, no matter how innocuously, she vents that anger towards them.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this, too -- when you make a mistake or have an embarrassing moment that is then brought to your attention by someone else, and the first instinct is to become angry at that person, because you're embarrassed.  Kim does this in spades but because she's so obtuse and self-centered, she fails to realize that the reason she's acting out is because she's projecting her own feelings about herself onto others and blaming them for the way she feels. 

 

This is why I seriously doubt Kim has had much in the ay of therapy or a SA/AA program beyond the basics when she's in rehab.  She acts too brand new about this stuff.

[BlackMamba]

Kim never defends Kyle. Not only the Camille instance, but what about just a few weeks ago when Brandi made the remark about Mauricio at the gay mixer? Kim was sitting RIGHT there and she said nary a word. It's a two way street, honey.

Agreed but she was quite alert when Kyle threw the bird at her and told her FU. Kim heard it. She doesn't like Kyle. Period. I remember at that season 1 reunion Camille sat there and turned to Kim on Kyle "But she bullies you." And Kim just looked like a pathetic wounded puppy with her head down! She didn't say "No my sister means well" Just accepted Camille's bully logic. And there went she got more sympathy for Kim. UGH.

Edited March 4, 2015 by BlackMamba

[Sincerely Yours]

In fairness, LisaR was having a conversation that YoFo brought up. With that conversation, LisaR decided to mention what she had gone through BECAUSE YOFO MENTIONED LISAR's relatives, not LisaR.  During that discussion, LisaR offer an apology to Kim for entering into her business.  If Kim had just accepted the apology, LisaR would have smiled and then the conversation would have ceased. In my world, when one offers an apology, the other person is either going to accept it or not. Instead Kim responds, "Well, you did." Oh my lord, YES KIM, SHE DID!! That is what she just finished fucking telling you!! LisaR told you she was sorry for getting into your business. She acknowledged it. Of course poor Kimmy can't just say, "I accept your apology. Now let's move on" because the girl herself doesn't know how apologies work since she doesn't offer them when she fucks up.

And in fairness Kim has expressed how she wanted Lisa R to back off.

[rubyred]

Any word on the ratings? I bet they got a bump, which is problematic IMO because Bravo may consider ratings more important than that they're producing a dysfunctional shitshow. I believe that Kim should not be on the show, not just for sobriety and/or storyline reasons, but because she's a liability in casting future wives. Who's going to sign up for that mess?

 

It's interesting how perceptions are different; when I read that someone thinks Eileen is on a high horse I think, wow, that person wouldn't like me much either. I am much more of an observer, but, like Eileen, my silence does not constitute co-signing on the crazy, which is what the cast has done for years by not addressing on camera The Problem with Kim. Eileen stands up for herself, but she's not telling anyone to hold her gold, and I appreciate that. It doesn't always have to be a screaming fight. And even if she doesn't come back next year personally I think she's earned every dollar of that 750k.

 

I also agree that Kyle should disengage, but that's not as easy as making the judgement. This show will last for a few years; family is forever. Kyle has been trained to react a certain way, and she handles it poorly or well depending on your point of view. Changing those behaviors isn't something that can be done overnight, particularly if you're in a decades-long dysfunctional sibling dynamic. Glad to hear they've not spoken much in the last few months, I bet that's just a huge relief for Kyle, even as it's painful for her.

[mla40]

My final thought...

Lisa R now knows why "everyone is so scared of Kim Richards".

...chick is psychotic.

[b2H]

THANK YOU! Because just hitting the thank you is not enough.

 

Here's the problem:  Look at how many pages have been posted to in this thread.  This is why the two of them will continue on the show - they create buzz, for better or for worse.  Andy knows we're watching - I am sure he or one of his minions is monitoring all these sites.  

 

Whether we like it or not, these two will continue on the show because they get us to watch and to comment and all the rest of it.

 

We are, unfortunately, our own worst enemies.  As has been stated somewhere here before, the only ways to get rid of a bully are to ignore them or to give them a taste of their own medicine.  A couple have threatened to pull out of watching the next season, but Andy knows that won't happen.

[copacabana]

Okay but Kim's not the one who made that leap.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Kim AT ALL.  As I stated in my earlier post, she is my least favorite Housewife...and that's including all the franchises.  I was referring to the original poster making that leap.  If you look at the other posts about what this "secret" could possibly be, the majority of the guesses have been about infidelity.  I have only seen one post where the assumption was made that the "secret" was cancer or AIDs.  To me that's way more presumptuous than stating that it must be about infidelity.

 

Iago was able to destroy Othello and Desdemona (and himself come to think of it) with just a few words, a  stolen handkerchief, and the briefest whiff of innuendo.  I don't think that any of life's issues -- cancer, AIDS, adultery etc -- need to be graded really.  I know what my own internal process is when it comes to assigning levels of concern and shame but really that's just me and has no bearing on anything really. Civilized folks don't scream across the table that "Everyone will know!"   That's a straight up threat and leaves everything to the imagination, where anything can grow. These days, the ground is very fertile when it comes to suggestions that are left on the table.

 

Nothing personal -- I just think she's a nasty, irresponsible skank, who is finally showing her true nature and colors. The more she displays, the nastier she's going to get.  I see her as being in freefall mode.  

[WireWrap]

Co sign your well written post, Sincerely Yours.

 

FWIW, I think Kim is the most clear headed and coherent I've ever seen her.  In her one on one with Lisar after the fight she was calm and reiterated her desire for Lisar to but out of her life and keep her opinions/questions/concerns to herself.  I applaud Kim on how far she's come and wish her nothing but the best.  I also totally get where she's coming from in staking out her boundaries with the other women and any other woman who comes on the show and wants to use Kim as a convenient plot device.  Kim has shown she'll talk about her recovery but she's not going to be the headline in some new hw's storyline.  

Then she needs to stop getting high during filming or she will face questions about her "sobriety" again. Kim made her sobriety THE storyline of the season, no one else did that other than Kim. She got high, on more than 1 occasion/episode, and she put it out there to be discussed by her own actions.

Wait, besides poker night when did Kim initiate some aggravated ugly confrontation this season? When did she just go hey Imma just go HAM on these women and start the evening being a bitch just because out of thin air? The closest thing to that was her outburst on Kyle in the airport but where else has she, KIM cause some sort of issue and NOT the TOPIC of addiction that comes up cause these dramatic exchanges?

Kim was high in those scenes filmed at her house with Brandi/Kyle and then again at the mixer. Just because she did not scream/act out like she did poker night does not make her any less high/under the influence.

[Sincerely Yours]

Those times weren't enough?  lol  Limo ride, Poker Night, mediation between Kim and Kyle by Eileen, plane ride, airport, Amsterdam restaurant and I'm sure that's not the last of it.  Besides, this has been five long years (for us) of Kim's poor behavior that has been mostly swept under the rug, except for those few times when someone has just had enough with her bullshit and flips out on her.  She never takes responsibility for her behavior and how it affects every single person around her, and even one canine, named Kingsley. 

 

She's constantly, chronically involving other people in her drama, which does include her addiction, and then tries to skate on being held responsible.  If Kim had not relapsed and voluntarily taken someone else's medication and then, also, gotten into a car with someone else and verbally abused them, come into someone else's home and verbally abused a bunch of other people, then there wouldn't be anything of Kim's to even talk about.  She is the topic because she made herself the topic.  She can take all of the pills she wants to but if she's going to act like an ass to other people, then that's where the conflict begins.  No one is knocking on Kim's door asking her about pills and sponsors.  Kim is coming into other people's homes and television screens and then gets offended when people ask why she's acting so fucked up. 

 

Shit doesn't happen in a vacuum.  This is Kim's reputation and her recorded history -- she's an unstable addict who causes drama and then never takes ownership.  Every single thing she does is going to be viewed through that lens unless and until she corrects her behavior moving forward. 

Kyles event: Kim came in non confrontational and expressed herself to Kyle calmly and didn't escalate.

Eileens lunch: Kim expressed herself pretty well by saying "there are some hurt feelings that I thought I was over but didn't realize that they still may be an issue for me" (paraphrase). Nothing really got resolved but Kim was going off on anyone just because.

Airplane: Lisa R poked that bear. Body language and "evil" stares isn't going off on anyone and isn't the same as escalating a situation.

Airport: Kim's fed up acts bitchy. Yeah there's one but isn't that just someone being bitchy? That's not necessary oh there's that addict behavior again but anyway

Dinner table: Kim was expressing herself rather calmly at first but firmly and then it went into secret spilling territory but Kim didn't just initiate some screamfest. She started off rather clearly.

 

So I'm confused what out of control behavior are the other women needing to ward off by making it absolutely necessary to address Kim, her addict status, her sober status and what have you?

[izabella]

Kyle said something in the doorway about letting the truth out or stopping covering for Kim or something like that.  I thought that was telling.  Maybe Kim is in much worse shape and she knows a lot and isn't telling.

 

 

"More than we could ever know," as Brandi said.  Brandi told LisaR that she'd never seen Kim take a drink or a pill, but she's seen her drug patch and I have no doubt she has seen Kim wasted often.

 

I also do not believe Kim taking Monty's pills was a one time relapse.  And I'm equally sure that Kyle covers up for Kim as much as possible to avoid facing the wrath of Kim-Ra. 

[Pattycake2]

 

Iago was able to destroy Othello and Desdemona (and himself come to think of it) with just a few words, a  stolen handkerchief, and the briefest whiff of innuendo.

 

Ah, yes.  Brandi whispering into Kim's ear.  "She's a bad sister.  She's a bad sister."

 

Kim could have stopped all the talk right after poker night with a quick apology and a friendly and genial "I'm all right. Boy, did I do something stupid, but I'm fine now.  Thanks for caring."  Quick hug.  Drama over.

[grittypearl]

Kim is a bile induced putrid individual. IMO, she didn't seem sober when she was attacking Kyle, LisaR and Eileen at the Dutch lunch.

 

And because it can't be said enough, Kyle just needs to cut ties with her "I'm ready for my close-up" sister. I can relate because I have a brother who is similar to Kim (mentally ill and self-medicates but not nearly as heinous) and narcissistic parents.  I have nowhere near the financial resources Kyle does; yet I manage to go to therapy, support group meetings with Al-Anon and through NAMI.  It has helped wonders. I am not sure if Kyle has or hasn't utilized her mother-in-law, Estella the therapist for support/referrals. If not, she needs to do it soon.

Edited March 4, 2015 by grittypearl

[slitz]

Nothing personal -- I just think she's a nasty, irresponsible skank, who is finally showing her true nature and colors. The more she displays, the nastier she's going to get.  I see her as being in freefall mode.  

 

On that we are in complete agreement.

 

I will send you a PM on the other.

[SwordQueen]

I'm going to ramble for a minute, so I apologize (how DARE I?!) if I'm not all that coherent.  lol

 

I can’t/won’t speak for Lisa R. here, but one thing I can understand about why she (and Eileen) have been non-stop with Kim is because Kim hurts others and then turns around and not only expects, but demands support and adulation for her “sobriety”.  My feeling is that if it were me in Lisa or Eileen’s shoes, I wouldn’t be willing to give my support or congrats to someone when they refuse to acknowledge and make amends for their shitty, abusive behavior towards me. 

 

ALSO, I kind of get from both of them that, more than anything, they are trying to understand and get to the root of why Kim is like this if she says she’s completely sober.  Sober people do not act this way unless they are also shitty people, in general.  So I can see why they want to help Kim because they believe she is acting this way because she isn’t sober/is crying out for help.  They need to face facts that Kim is just a terrible human being, drunk or sober and that is the reason why she hurts other people and doesn’t give a fuck.

 

I’d do the same honestly, if I were trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt.  Maybe it’s that they are on something that has altered their behavior.  Maybe they don’t know how to ask or receive help and that’s why they act out.   Most, I think, want to believe that people are generally good.  So when someone acts badly, there’s a need to investigate and help.  I've done this way too many times in my life; forgiven people and worked too hard to help them when they didn't care about me or how they treated me in the first place.  Some people just suck balls and really, that’s it.  It can be a hard thing to accept though and often takes getting burned before you do. 

[HumblePi]

There was a 'tell' about Kyle that I noticed in the scene where they were all sitting in the hotel lobby waiting for Kim and Kyle to show up so they could all go to the pot shop. Kyle strolls in looking like she just stepped out of photo shoot, hair, clothes, makeup and accessories were all impeccably put together.

 

Everyone stands up ready to go as she approaches. Kim stands there and asks "where's Kim, she coming?" Lisa Rinna says "mm-mm". Kyle looks surprised and says "Kim's not coming?"  Lisa V says  "She's not coming. Well, I don't think she's gonna go to the pot shop, is she?" There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

This was a huge revelation about Kyle in my opinion. Kim's sobriety was the furthest thing from her mind. She never gave a single thought to how going to a pot shop might be uncomfortable, unpleasant and maybe even dangerous for her sister who has been fighting for sobriety for 3 years. Kyle thought that it was best that Kim not accompany them to the pot shop only because it would have been uncomfortable for her because they were not even looking at each other. Kim's sobriety was the last thing that concerned Kyle.

 

I'm really disliking Kyle more and more. Saying that, I am sympathizing with Kim more and more, although I in no way condone the erratic behavior and anger she's projecting to everyone around her.

 

As far as the 'makeup' between Lisa Rinna and Kim, I felt that under normal circumstance, they would have never had contact with each other again. Lisa even told Kyle that she will never speak to or have anything to do with Kim ever again. Then in the next scene she and Kim are sitting down calmly discussing the incident and suddenly it's all good, they're congenial once again. I know that they have a contract and it wouldn't be in their best interest to be in violation of that Bravo contract and that's the only reason those two women came face to face to smooth things out.

[SwordQueen]

Oh, and the next time someone sincerely apologizes to me, I'm going to tell them that I hate their face.   That'll learn 'em. 

[TattleTeeny]

I have read many posts here saying "I don't condone what Lisar did, but I understand it". Hmmm. Isn't "understanding it" same as approving, forgiving, regarding  it as acceptable, in other words, condoning it?

 

No. Those words are not synonyms, and this comparison doesn't make any sense. I understand why someone might feel the need to rob the 7-11. Doesn't mean I condone it. And what would there be for one to forgive if one already approved of the action that warrants forgiveness? "I approve of this haircut you gave me -- and I also forgive you for it"?

 

I assume that "understand" is more attached to the urge, as opposed to the act.

Edited March 4, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[msblossom]

Why do you think it only applies to her drinking? I'm sure her kids have seen her falling-down drunk AND high as a kite. It's all bad, embarrassing, scary, frustrating.... Kim puts different definitions on what sober means and what a relapse means, but I doubt her kids do.

Because the drinking was all Kim would cop to. I imagine her kids are desperate to believe her and they don't live with her, except her son, and desperation and codependency can leave you with blinders on. It was her kids and Kathy who were the most instrumental in convincing Kim to go to treatment 3 years ago and I think they want to believe her, maybe bc she's truly is off the booze and her addictive behavior is no longer off the charts as it when she was drinking and taking pills. I don't want to get off topic, so I'll end it here.

Of course Kim has different definitions to what sober means. It's called denial. (not to sound snotty to you, but just directing that toward Kim).

Edited March 4, 2015 by msblossom

[copacabana]

On that we are in complete agreement.

 

I will send you a PM on the other.

 

Thanks for that -- You are too kind and definitely too kind to me.  PMed back.  Wish we all could go to Amsterdam together and have a proper meal at the very nice looking broken glass of loose lips restaurant.  Nothing like arriving at a city, feeling tired and kinda raw, and having an Aqua Teen meltdown in a restaurant before you even get your dinner.  Ils sont fous, ces Romains!  Like youth is wasted on the young, international luxury travel is wasted on the HWs.  

[sistermagpie]

FWIW, I think Kim is the most clear headed and coherent I've ever seen her.  In her one on one with Lisar after the fight she was calm and reiterated her desire for Lisar to but out of her life and keep her opinions/questions/concerns to herself.

 

 

I think Kim's never more clear-headed than when giving a pre-planned speech about how the other person was wrong to question her sobriety. She knows how to get into character for that one.

 

There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

 

Or maybe Kim had said she was coming and was expected and decided not to go after the blow up. If Kim had said straight off she wasn't going to a place with pot nobody would have been expecting her.

Edited March 4, 2015 by sistermagpie

[SwordQueen]

Here's the problem:  Look at how many pages have been posted to in this thread.  This is why the two of them will continue on the show - they create buzz, for better or for worse.  Andy knows we're watching - I am sure he or one of his minions is monitoring all these sites.  

 

Whether we like it or not, these two will continue on the show because they get us to watch and to comment and all the rest of it.

 

Eh, I think it's more of a "Love (to hate) the one you're with".   If they wipe this cast and we get a whole new slew of HW, we'll still find stuff to over-analyze.  lol  None of these ladies are essential, imo.  I might miss a HW but they don't "make" the show for me.  I can find something to snark on about anyone (it's a gift).  I'm kind of itching for new blood and I'd be really interested to see a new group of women with fresh drama.  I think BRAVO can only ride this gravy train for so long before people stop watching because they are too irritated or have become too bored, which is happening now. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by SwordQueen

[slitz]

Thanks for that -- You are too kind and definitely too kind to me.  PMed back.  Wish we all could go to Amsterdam together and have a proper meal at the very nice looking broken glass of loose lips restaurant.  Nothing like arriving at a city, feeling tired and kinda raw, and having an Aqua Teen meltdown in a restaurant before you even get your dinner.  Ils sont fous, ces Romains!  Like youth is wasted on the young, international luxury travel is wasted on the HWs.  

Ha!  That's what would have had me in tears if I had been at that dinner.  It certainly looked like they'd never even gotten around to ordering their food!  I hope they all indulged in some room service back at the hotel!  I'm sure Yo's mini-bar was fully stocked with lemons already.  ;)

[phoenix780]

Reading through the comments and seeing the warning originally posted at the top of each page has me thinking...it's kind of amazing how far you could go in trying to untangle and understand this blow-up.  I don't know if I would say Rinna was bringing something up again after Kim told her not to, which she shouldn't have done.  To me it felt more like she was trying to get a point across in a calmer moment, once Kim got her apology, that she was unable to do in their conversation on the plane.  Taking it at face value, I think it was primarily an attempt to connect and be understood, not rehash.  And really...doesn't she have the right to do that?  Why does Kim dictate?

 

I wonder if it'd have landed better off-camera, since anything on-camera contributes to a Story and Kim clearly doesn't want certain things to be part of her tale (as is the same for all of them).

 

I have to agree that it's time for them to swap out HW's on this show, after this.  At a certain point it becomes...repetitive and tiresome.  Brandi feels ignored for the millionth time.  Everyone's vowing to move forward...again.  I think they need to shift focus to fresh faces sooner rather than later, or else it just becomes...Jersey (family drama on repeat and you have to scrape the very bottom of the barrel to find new castmembers).

[HumblePi]

I agree. I smoked pot a bit in high school, so I'm definitely no stranger to it. But it was always on the downlow, as it . Honestly, I thought they were just having a good time and the only real reason I can see for Brandi getting so put out by the behavior would be jealousy. 

 

Brandi realized as I had also that the women sitting in the pot shop were all transparently disingenuous in their reluctance to taste a tiny piece of hash-cake. I mean really, they know their kids will watch the episode so I'm sure they didn't want to sit there and say "hey yah, give me five pieces, I like that shit".  Comon' now, which of them that has teenage or older kids believes their kid hasn't tried smoking a joint at least once? And how many of their almost-adult children actually believe their mothers are sainted beings that have done no wrong in their lives? (cough-cough)

[LotusFlower]

There was a 'tell' about Kyle that I noticed in the scene where they were all sitting in the hotel lobby waiting for Kim and Kyle to show up so they could all go to the pot shop. Kyle strolls in looking like she just stepped out of photo shoot, hair, clothes, makeup and accessories were all impeccably put together.

 

Everyone stands up ready to go as she approaches. Kim stands there and asks "where's Kim, she coming?" Lisa Rinna says "mm-mm". Kyle looks surprised and says "Kim's not coming?"  Lisa V says  "She's not coming. Well, I don't think she's gonna go to the pot shop, is she?" There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

This was a huge revelation about Kyle in my opinion. Kim's sobriety was the furthest thing from her mind. She never gave a single thought to how going to a pot shop might be uncomfortable, unpleasant and maybe even dangerous for her sister who has been fighting for sobriety for 3 years. Kyle thought that it was best that Kim not accompany them to the pot shop only because it would have been uncomfortable for her because they were not even looking at each other. Kim's sobriety was the last thing that concerned Kyle.

 

I'm really disliking Kyle more and more. Saying that, I am sympathizing with Kim more and more, although I in no way condone the erratic behavior and anger she's projecting to everyone around her.

There have been lots of scenes like that over the years. I noticed it on Poker Night when Kim confided she had taken a pill, and Kyle didn't even seem cognizant that it meant Kim had relapsed. She talked about the positive of Kim not hiding that from her, but it was Brandi of all people who outed Kim's pain pill relapse in a TH, not Kyle. For someone who has had an addict sister her entire adult life, you would think she gets the drill and notices the behavioral changes, but instead she always seems surprised and asks "what's wrong with you?" She doesn't seem to have the awareness or resignation of a long-term sufferer that I've seen in others in her place. I think the reasons are this: 1) she's not that sharp; and 2) she doesn't want to know. She was raised to ignore it and not ask questions. Stay in denial. She needs Al-Anon so badly.

[TexasGal]

Everyone stands up ready to go as she approaches. Kim stands there and asks "where's Kim, she coming?" Lisa Rinna says "mm-mm". Kyle looks surprised and says "Kim's not coming?"  Lisa V says  "She's not coming. Well, I don't think she's gonna go to the pot shop, is she?" There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

This was a huge revelation about Kyle in my opinion. Kim's sobriety was the furthest thing from her mind. She never gave a single thought to how going to a pot shop might be uncomfortable, unpleasant and maybe even dangerous for her sister who has been fighting for sobriety for 3 years. Kyle thought that it was best that Kim not accompany them to the pot shop only because it would have been uncomfortable for her because they were not even looking at each other. Kim's sobriety was the last thing that concerned Kyle.

 

I could see how it could be interpreted that way.  My view on Kyle, though, is that all season it seems like she's trying to cover for Kim.  In the limo back from Eileen's with Lisa R, when Kyle already knew that Kim had taken a pain pill, she didn't tell Lisa that.  As she discussed with the Lisas and Eileen after dinner, she can't say anything negative about Kim or she gets the wrath of the whole family.  So, the way I interpret that was - let's find a spin for why Kim didn't come.  Because I can't say a word about her sobriety or she's gonna go apeshit on me.

[SoCal4Us]

Just wondering if anyone else thought of "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" when Eileen and Lisa V arrived at the hotel?

 

No?

 

Okay.  Carry on.

[HumblePi]

I have to agree that it's time for them to swap out HW's on this show, after this.  At a certain point it becomes...repetitive and tiresome.  Brandi feels ignored for the millionth time.  Everyone's vowing to move forward...again.  I think they need to shift focus to fresh faces sooner rather than later, or else it just becomes...Jersey (family drama on repeat and you have to scrape the very bottom of the barrel to find new castmembers).

Unfortunately, or...fortunately for Bravo, it's precisely the 'bottom of the barrel' that brings the rating that has Bravo rubbing its hands in glee over.

[bosawks]

Stop spreading lies about her. Bride of Chucky has been sober for three years!

 

To be fair Bride of Chucky has not had a DRINK in 3 years.....

[zoeysmom]

Because the drinking was all Kim would cop to. I imagine her kids are desperate to believe her and they don't live with her, except her son, and desperation and codependency can leave you with blinders on. It was her kids and Kathy who were the most instrumental in convincing Kim to go to treatment 3 years ago and I think they want to believe her, maybe bc she's truly is off the booze and her addictive behavior is no longer off the charts as it when she was drinking and taking pills. I don't want to get off topic, so I'll end it here.

Of course Kim has different definitions to what sober means. It's called denial. (not to sound snotty to you, but just directing that toward Kim).

I think Kim overstated what her kids would do if she relapsed.  You are correct she lives in denial. She lives in a state of relapse and she or Monty don't seem smooth enough to cover up Kim's pill usage.  Kim's kids will be there for her just as Kathy and Kyle were there for here when Kim made the decision after Season 2 to go into rehab.    I see Kim's comments as poor acting, her adult children's reactions were never about the rumors it is about her lack of sobriety.  Kim brought it to them on small screen big time and still denied it.  Kim acts as if people are talking about her son being the next Norman Bates-when all people really say is she is a mean bitch.  No one cares about her kids' lives.

 

The irony is Lisa has never started rumors about Kim not being sober Lisa, Eileen, Kyle et al lived a special night of Kim's brand of lack of control due to substances.  What was her excuse for last night's dinner behavior?  I have never seen a group of people that feel so flipping entitled to direct and control the conversation.  Brandi and Kim being the worst.  Brandi and Kim aren't happy unless someone is outing someone or someone is getting hurt.

[HumblePi]

I could see how it could be interpreted that way.  My view on Kyle, though, is that all season it seems like she's trying to cover for Kim.  In the limo back from Eileen's with Lisa R, when Kyle already knew that Kim had taken a pain pill, she didn't tell Lisa that.  As she discussed with the Lisas and Eileen after dinner, she can't say anything negative about Kim or she gets the wrath of the whole family.  So, the way I interpret that was - let's find a spin for why Kim didn't come.  Because I can't say a word about her sobriety or she's gonna go apeshit on me.

From what I observe, Kyle is 'there for Kim' when it suits her, but she's very reticent to defend Kim when she's in front of the camera or out in public with the other women. Kyle is more concerned with how she comes off, she needs the fan support and if she had defended Kim right that at the moment with LisaR then people would have put her squarely in Kim's camp. She wants to be liked, even if it means separating herself from giving her sister the support she so desperately needs.