S05.E12: Remember

[Pete Martell]

Am I just too obtuse to get whatever I missed, or was cleaning Rick up and especially showing him shirtless just fanservice to the ladies and guys who wanted to see it?  Just seemed like they couldn't hammer it home enough just how much it changed him; what with the attention & comments from Jessie, Michonne, & CWD.

 

One thing I thought a bit weird was the obvious quick passage of time shown, since it seemed like 30 seconds after shaving, Rick was pretty noticeably stubbly again.

 

All I kept thinking was having the foggy shower door (which was hyped up as a great sexy thing...it was OK, but I wish someone had wiped the door...) reminded me of Abby's nude scene on Survivors. Given that Abby was basically the Rick of that show, and she should have continued to be if not for sexism and lazy writing pushing the actress off the show, I'll take it as an homage.

[Dusty]

In Carl's video interview when he said "I didn't just lose her.  I killed her.  It had to be me." Right before they cut to the next scene Judith raises her hand with one finger extended like "Actually, that was me."  That just made me laugh.  Because I am terrible.

[Nashville]

One scene shows the glaring difference in the post-ZA life experiences of CDB and the Alexes:  Daryl gutting the possum on the front step, and pitching the guts onto the porch:

• The Alexes would have been horrified at this sight, as they consider these houses their home; they represent security and stability.
• Daryl (and the rest of CDB by extension) have no such sentimental attachment to dwellings; to them, they're places to hole up which offer some degree of temporary shelter from walkers - maybe for a night, maybe for a week - but nothing permanent.  in that sense, houses and other structures are disposables in the post-ZA world.

[Pete Martell]

As always the lack of sex on this show perplexes me. At least, they should heavily hint that Maggie/Glenn and Abraham/Rosita are off having sex marathons now that they have had showers and the opportunity for some privacy. All the sex on the show left with Darabont. Gimple must have no real comprehension of human sexual desires.

 

Even Darabont only did Lori sex scenes, and those were mostly for plot, as we had to know she'd had sex with both Rick and Shane. 

 

The problem with sex scenes on a show like this is the woman always pays for it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two women who had sex scenes or were presented as sexual (Andrea, Lori) were despised by fans and regularly called sluts and whores. Hell, Andrea was called a slut and a whore for flirting with Daryl, let alone anything else. 

 

Maggie's relationship with Glenn has always been much more told than shown - their first time was "we have condoms so let's just do this Glenn" and cutting away as they're awkwardly standing near each other naked. All the rest has been implied and we've just seen them cuddling or talking post-coitus. I have a feeling at this point Maggie's still too traumatized by Hershel and Beth to think about much of anything. And if she did, then we'd likely hear no end of, "She's getting dick WHILE THE SISTER SHE DID NOT REMEMBER IS DEAD!!! BETH WHO?? LOL!11!!!1"

 

As for Rosita and Abraham...I think Cudlitz is an attractive guy (in spite of the Pippi Longstocking hair dye) and of course Christian Serratos is gorgeous, but I saw it once and that was fine with me. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Pete Martell

[NorthstarATL]

 

Wished we got more of the camera interviews.  Glad they got the important characters for this episode, but I was kind of curious to see how Maggie, Sasha, and even the Abraham/Eugene/Rosita trio were feeling.

I'm hoping they actually filmed each cast member's interview and that we'll see them when the relevant interviewee is onscreen doing something.

   

 

As always the lack of sex on this show perplexes me. At least, they should heavily hint that Maggie/Glenn and Abraham/Rosita are off having sex marathons now that they have had showers and the opportunity for some privacy. All the sex on the show left with Darabont. Gimple must have no real comprehension of human sexual desires.

 I think probably we'll see "hooking up" once people actually feel safe enough to do so, but many in our group are still in amped up paranoid mode. It's likely that some fresh showering might spark interest that was dormant. As I stated earlier, I'd be content to to never sleep with anyone, lest they die and turn while I slept. Then again, no one in our POV group appeals to me.

   

 

I don't like how they run into groups that are hyper-competent and then incompetent.  Mapping a 53 mile radius semi-circle is a lot of ground to cover, and those two Alexandrians who tracked Rick's group for weeks is no small accomplishment.  Plus, they have had to make frequent runs to provide food for all in that community, including elderly members they have not left to die.  Yet, when they arrive we find Laurel and Hardy out making runs.  They better explain that inconsistency at some point.

     I always assume that there are things that aren't being divulged until the writers prove to me that they just didn't consider the inconsistenies. In this case, I wonder whether the people they "exiled" or at least others weren't responsible for the initial survival, and that the need to assimilate our crew is so imortant because those that remain haven't figured out how to make Alexandria work on their own.

[Richness]

I'm really enjoying the last 3 episodes with the group all together. It's such a nice change of pace with all the different groups at different locations of previous seasons.

 

So glad to be rid of Rick's fugly, scraggly beard, though the sexy scruff can return. And yay for shower and shirtless scenes. Now if only Daryl would clean up. They don't even have to tease us and show the process like they did with Rick so long as it gets done. Also loved the look of horror on Carl's face when the kids offered to play video games, which he's so over it's not even funny.

 

Daryl's dinner offering was also funny. However, the scene where he actually shot the possum seemed off effects wise. I didn't actually see the opossum till after he held it up. Then when I watched the Talking Dead, they hilariously showed it among the other dead in the "In Memorium" segment (along with Rick's beard). In the segment, they slowed it in slow motion. The opossum actually looked partially transparent. It suppose its gray fur could have blended in with the background, but it looked like the effects department really botched the CGI or video overlay. I know this is a weird thing to obsess over, but It took me right out of the scene when watching it live.

[Pete Martell]

I think that Michonne isn't going soft. I think that she truly loves Rick and Carl. They've been through a lot together and she wants to be able to actually enjoy some time with them. I also think Rick is going to hook up with hairdresser (Jessie?) even tho she's married for now. Then, Michonne may start closing off and just be a badass again. Just random thoughts. I'm glad this show has peaked my interest again and made me actually think something other than, "what happened to my show", lol. I haven't enjoyed it this much since Terminus and the church after.

 

I think they're important to her (although I really hope she isn't in love with Rick, especially now that this random woman Rick likely needs to "save" has been parachuted in from the sky - if I have to watch Michonne pining I will lose my lunch, so I hope the show doesn't go there), but I think above all else she's concerned about the fate of the group. They were becoming what she became - lost, nomadic, struggling to see the point of it all, and not caring. She barely managed to survive that life, and she doesn't want the same to happen to anyone else. 

I don't think Michonne is going soft; but there is an undercurrent of desperation with Michonne about settling down.  I don't understand why.   Her worry about not being assigned a job in her nighttime talk with Rick.  She was clearly trying to give the right answers in her taped interview so they'd be allowed to stay and you don't need to be a poker player to know it.

 

She doesn't want to lose herself again and she worries that a life of nothingness will do that. She wanted Terminus, she wanted the cure - each failure is a knock back.

[BrokenRemote]

A couple things:

The "Easter Egg" on Talking Dead was the words on the patch on Rick's jacket. I was pretty sure of that, then saw a bunch of people screaming on twitter " we were never shown the Easter Egg", and Hardwick confirmed it was the patch.

My thought is that the Alexandrians aren't stupid because they don't have watchtowers/guards/lookouts. Deanna said they hadn't seen anyone, living or dead, in a long time. They don't realize how bad things could get. But they're smart enough to go find a group like ours that's obviously seen some stuff. Also why they're not scared enough of walkers. They haven't seen a lot at once, and don't see that many.

I think how sad it is that our group has been wandering around Atlanta for nearly two years, starving and watching people they love die, when there are parts of the country that were evacuated early on, and are rich in supplies and not overrun with people or walkers. If they'd have tried to leave Atlanta sooner, they might not be so far gone now. Makes me wonder if there are more places like Georgia, or more like Alexandria.

Someone asked why only Deanna was told about this place, not all of Congress. I re watched. She wasn't told, per se. She said they were on a back road when they came upon anArmy roadblock. They were told to go to this place and the Army would follow. But the Army never showed. So not many people were sent to this place because it was just those on one particular nearby back road that got diverted there.

[MrHufflepuff]

Let's see.  We've had Woodbury with the dictatorial, nutso small-town mayor.  We've had Terminus and Gareth with his notebook and his mid-level micromanager bullshit.  Then we got the hospital with the "You must respect my authoritah!" cops.  And now we've got a Congresswoman.  This show is just leaping from one leadership asshole to another.  It's like real-life, but with zombies.

[Soobs]

Never trust a politician! Especially one who says they're an awesome poker player. I guess it may not matter as the Alexandrians are living in a Ricktocracy, they just don't know it yet.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Soobs

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Never trust a politician! Especially one who says they're an awesome poker player. I guess it may not matter as the Alexandrians are living in a Ricktocracy, they just don't know it yet.

 

Obey the Ricktator, or get Rick-rolled.

[Pete Martell]

When I read the spoiler about Carol working with the elderly, I was happy, because I feel like we've seen a lot of "badass" Carol in the last two seasons and I think having too many BAMF moments just to try to sustain an image of a character makes them a parody. I'm now very glad I didn't read even more, as the whole undercover aspect of it was a nice surprise. And it is utterly in keeping with her character, because, sadly, abused women have to be "undercover" every day of their lives. Melissa McBride is so capable of playing so many different sides of Carol while still remaining true to who she is

 

I'm bored of yet another incompetent leader/dictator, but I was also very happily surprised to see Tovah Feldsuh. For some reason I never thought I'd see her on a show like this. I know she's best known for theater work but I best remember her from her As the World Turns run as Dr. Bethany Rose, doctor and lover for the irascible John Dixon. When I saw her tonight I actually said, "Bethany Rose!"

[kikaha]

How has Alexandria survived for so long?  I would think the desperadoes out there would have found it and seized it long ago.  Maybe that theme will fill future episodes.  They can't just live happily ever after. 

[kj4ever]

When I read the spoiler about Carol working with the elderly, I was happy, because I feel like we've seen a lot of "badass" Carol in the last two seasons and I think having too many BAMF moments just to try to sustain an image of a character makes them a parody. I'm now very glad I didn't read even more, as the whole undercover aspect of it was a nice surprise. And it is utterly in keeping with her character, because, sadly, abused women have to be "undercover" every day of their lives. Melissa McBride is so capable of playing so many different sides of Carol while still remaining true to who she is

 

I'm bored of yet another incompetent leader/dictator, but I was also very happily surprised to see Tovah Feldsuh. For some reason I never thought I'd see her on a show like this. I know she's best known for theater work but I best remember her from her As the World Turns run as Dr. Bethany Rose, doctor and lover for the irascible John Dixon. When I saw her tonight I actually said, "Bethany Rose!"

I think it's to early to call her incompetent.  She knows they need people like Rick and Co.  Is she a liar though?  I actually went back and rewatched Rick's portion of the interview.  She said they hadn't seen other people in a long time and hadn't brought people in for a long time.  Didn't that kid said that the girl teenager had only been there for 3 weeks?

 

Bet she has Rick's gun.  I also am thinking that she doesn't want to get soft like some of the group expressed.  The kids is pretty crafty with using those pegs to make a ladder on the wall.  I guess Alexandria doesn't have look outs??

 

I was really happy with this episode just for the fact that they have brought in characters that I actually want to know more about.  That hasn't happened in a long, long time.  Even after some character development I already hope some of the new ones stay around more then people like Abraham, Tara, and Rosita.  I'll tell you what though, even though I'm meh about those characters I still was like WTF when that asshat threw the walker on Tara.  The two frat boys though....ugh total sterotype that makes them look like lazy writers.

 

I don't think for a second Carol has the congresswoman fooled.

 

Daryl's arc is going to get really interesting I think.  His whole "We brought dinner!" line was the Daryl that I love.

 

You could practically see Rick's eyes rolling in the back of his head when Jessie was rubbing his scalp...lol  It's probably been a long time since anyone has touched him like that.  Hell I know my eyes practically roll back in my head when I get my scalp massaged, so i could imagine how wonderful it would feel to someone who has been in Rick's position.

Edited March 2, 2015 by kj4ever

[Pete Martell]

You're right about Deanna - I guess I'm just never expecting them to break this stereotype for a leader.

 

I wish we'd seen this...

 

(possible spoilers in rest of article)

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/02/27/walking-dead-director-greg-nicotero-reveals-deleted-scenes-latest-episode

 

There were a couple of scenes that we had to lose due to time—a really interesting sequence. It was when all of them were going to work for their jobs. We see Rosita going to meet [Jessie’s husband] Pete, and we see Abraham going to meet the crew that is building the wall, and we see Eugene going to meet with a worker to discuss the solar array. And we also see Maggie going to work with Deanna. So it was a great little montage, and we had to lose it strictly for time. But it was this great moment where people were having to deal with the emotion of assimilating back into what is such a normal world in an abnormal universe.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Caelicola]

I enjoyed it, quite a lot.

I don't know, though, I think I prefer Sheriff Bugfuck Rick to Constable Prettyboy Rick...I think I like my post-apocalyptic somewhat heroes more grizzled and dirty than babyfaced and innocent-looking. Still, apocalypse does a body goooood, thanks for the abs, AMC.

 

I really, really liked Deanna, and Tovah Feldshuh is such a lovely actress that I really want her to be who she says she is; I also didn't see her as an incompetent leader, but as someone who knows the dangers and limitations of her own people and is trying to remedy that. Not every leader has to be a gunslinging badass, there are other ways to lead; I think -make that hope, actually- that she actually knows what she's doing, and knows that her community has survived almost despite its members.

 

Carol rocks, Melissa McBride rocks even harder, and that was perfect and perfectly in character and I loved every second of it. She's also the only one who could have pulled it off; Aaron saw pretty much everyone else kicking ass, and Father PP and Eugene don't have skills to hide, they'd just be telling the truth when acting weak and useless.

Michonne also rocks, as does Danai Gurira, and I don't think she's blindly trusting the community, I think she wants everyone in the group to see the counterpoint to Rick's constant vigilance, Carol's "just-in-case" subterfuge, and Daryl's pacing like a caged animal. She's antsy, I think, almost as suspicious as Rick, but if someone doesn't trust the new guys, no one will, and she's not willing to risk blowing a possibly good situation just because everybody takes their paranoid cue from Rick. Plus, girl has good nose, she sniffed out the Governor's bullshit before anyone else did.

 

Now, possibly unpopular: I haven't given much of a shit about Daryl since pretty much season 3. I don't dislike him, I like Norman Reedus, and I think he's ridiculously charming, I just couldn't have cared less about his character, for quite a long time. This episode made me interested in him again, and I'm glad for that.

 

Quick aside: I think the Unfair Wolves are my new favourite thing ever, so thank you, really, I went back to look for their origin in the thread for What Happened and Yada Yada and laughed my ass off for ten minutes straight.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Caelicola

[BrokenRemote]

Actually, the boy said Enid had been there 8 months. It all fits, so if Deanna is lying she has it worked out really well.

[Otherkate]

I have a feeling they survived because Deanna's husband had the foresight to build big honking steel walls all around the town. They obviously haven't been going on runs in highly populated areas. They also survived by sheer luck by being directed to a town that was self-sufficient and off the grid. At some point, luck runs out. Look at everything that happened to Rick and his followers. I didn't think Rick's statement was about preying on the weak. It was an a statement of fact. The people of Alexandria do seem to be weak, and if/when they falter, then Rick and company will take over. Better them than Termites, after all.

 

I'm definitely leaning towards "when."

 

Did they say what happened to Deanna's husband? They may have and I just don't remember it.

[BrokenRemote]

I enjoyed it, quite a lot.

I don't know, though, I think I prefer Sheriff Bugfuck Rick to Constable Prettyboy Rick...I think I like my post-apocalyptic somewhat heroes more grizzled and dirty than babyfaced and innocent-looking. Still, apocalypse does a body goooood, thanks for the abs, AMC.

I really, really liked Deanna, and Tovah Feldshuh is such a lovely actress that I really want her to be who she says she is; I also didn't see her as an incompetent leader, but as someone who knows the dangers and limitations of her own people and is trying to remedy that. Not every leader has to be a gunslinging badass, there are other ways to lead; I think -make that hope, actually- that she actually knows what she's doing, and knows that her community has survived almost despite its members.

Carol rocks, Melissa McBride rocks even harder, and that was perfect and perfectly in character and I loved every second of it. She's also the only one who could have pulled it off; Aaron saw pretty much everyone else kicking ass, and Father PP and Eugene don't have skills to hide, they'd just be telling the truth when acting weak and useless.

Michonne also rocks, as does Danai Gurira, and I don't think she's blindly trusting the community, I think she wants everyone in the group to see the counterpoint to Rick's constant vigilance, Carol's "just-in-case" subterfuge, and Daryl's pacing like a caged animal. She's antsy, I think, almost as suspicious as Rick, but if someone doesn't trust the new guys, no one will, and she's not willing to risk blowing a possibly good situation just because everybody takes their paranoid cue from Rick. Plus, girl has good nose, she sniffed out the Governor's bullshit before anyone else did.

Now, possibly unpopular: I haven't given much of a shit about Daryl since pretty much season 3. I don't dislike him, I like Norman Reedus, and I think he's ridiculously charming, I just couldn't have cared less about his character, for quite a long time. This episode made me interested in him again, and I'm glad for that.

Quick aside: I think the Unfair Wolves are my new favourite thing ever, so thank you, really, I went back to look for their origin in the thread for What Happened and Yada Yada and laughed my ass off for ten minutes straight.

If I could like this post 100 times, I would! Agree with every thing you said! (Except I may reserve judgment for a couple episodes on whether I'm interested in Daryl again.) Edited March 2, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Morrigan2575]

Something that's been bugging me about this whole fitting into society and being out in the ZA too long aspect of this storyline.  They really weren't.  Based on the compressed timeline they were out in the ZA for maybe 6-8 weeks post fall of the Prison.  Before that they spent close 6 months in the prison, creating a society, they had jobs, and rules, the kids had school etc.  Before that, they were at the Farm again, keeping their own society and looking to create a community. I could probably buy the whole fish out of water or been in the jungle too long if we hadn't just seen them having their own community not that long ago.

 

I think that's why I find Michonne's reaction so much easier to believe than everyone else.  Michonne (to me) is acting like someone who had her own version Alexandria and lost it (which is funny, since she apparently spent most of her time on runs out looking for The Governor), so she's trying to get back her normal.  While the others are acting like they've been feral dogs for 3 years now and have no idea how to fit into a society.

 

I could buy the distrust after Woodberry and Terminus incidents, that doesn't ring false, it's the we've been out in the ZA too long and don't know how to act around civilized society (or if we even want to be a part of a community) that just seems to ring false.  I think it would have worked better if CDB were living like Nomads and Feral/Wild Animals for 2-3 years.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[JackONeill]

I know what's her name talked about the building of the walls, but did she say how long it took? I would just think, based upon what we've seen so far, they have a bunch of idiots there, and I would think that with all the noise and movement of living people, there would have been not just a swarm of walkers to come through, but swarms of walkers to come through. After all, that's a pretty densely populated place.  But, I know, I shouldn't worry about details!

[Pete Martell]

Something that's been bugging me about this whole fitting into society and being out in the ZA too long aspect of this storyline.  They really weren't.  Based on the compressed timeline they were out in the ZA for maybe 6-8 weeks post fall of the Prison.  Before that they spent close 6 months in the prison, creating a society, they had jobs, and rules, the kids had school etc.  Before that, they were at the Farm again, keeping their own society and looking to create a community. I could probably buy the whole fish out of water or been in the jungle too long if we hadn't just seen them having their own community not that long ago.

 

I never felt like the farm was a society for most of the people living on it. Everyone was struggling psychologically, and even those like Glenn who weren't were reassessing themselves and their lives.

 

The prison was more of a home, but it was an illusion, and most of the remaining characters were never fully comfortable treating it as a community or home. Carl wasn't, Carol wasn't, Rick was lying to himself, Michonne was on her own a lot, Daryl wasn't all that comfortable with the role he had as a "rock star." Glenn and Maggie had their little bubble with Beth and Hershel, which is gone now. 

 

Adjusting to a new place where they aren't in charge and are clear outsiders makes it even more difficult.

[Timetoread]

5 pages before 8 in the morning!!  You guys are prolific!  That said, I simply don't have time in my day to catch up reading before posting my initial thoughts so if I have said something everybody else has said, my bad.

 

I cried salt tears of joy and relief when Rick reintroduced himself to hygiene.  Looking good Sherrif Rick!  In contrast I cried salt tears of despair and desperation that Daryl didn't follow his lead.  I get it Daryl, you're hard to win over but can you at least be a badass who showers once a year?  Even Attilla the Hun must have let water touch his unmentionables on occasion!

 

Loved Carol's line of BS.  Very smart.  I am finally starting to like her because she seems to finally be learning how to be a survivor and a fighter.  And what makes her smiling act even funnier is that she's the one that single handedly burned the last place to the ground.  LOL LOL!

 

I'm worried that they are going to stay just long enough for Maggie and Glen to take advantage of their own King Sized master bedroom and make a baby.

 

I liked that Sasha stayed in character and is still just basically numb.  I also like how Abe seems to silently be looking after her.  But I LOVED Sniper Sasha - which in the bigger perspective makes me love how even random members of this group are no freakin' joke.  So this leads me to...

 

I believe that this Alexandria thing is a straight up bluff. No way that they are this green and this weak.  They couldn't be.  Aaron said in the previous episode that they have to "audition".  Deanna called herself a poker player and I found myself saying out loud "She's VERY smart."  My spidey sense is telling me that they want to see not only how tough this group is but what they do when they sniff out weakness.  Note how interested she was that they stayed together - meaning that the offer of comfort isn't what motivates them to let down their guard.  Where are all the other people?  What happened to Aaron and his friend?   To me what we are seeing is the "audition" but I think if Rick really did try to "take" the place, he'd find REAL resistance.  My guess is that this place has cops, soldiers, and many many tough types.  Even that run with Members Only seemed fake to me.  Those two wouldn't make it to the mailbox let alone clear 59 miles of walkers.  Notice how he pushed that walker toward Tara, my guess to see how she'd react to it, how the others would react to her in trouble, and how all three would react to Member's Only piss poor leadership.  Would they take over?  Would they leave?  Also, my spidey sense tells me that her interest isn't in Rick but in Carl.  I don't know why I feel that but I do. 

 

The video taping, electricity, plumbing, hi-tech surveillance - that's quite an infrastructure for a gay couple, a congresswoman, a hair dresser and four punk kids to uphold.  Nope this is not the REAL Alexandria.  Not yet.  I'm not saying that they are bad per se but they are not what this group thinks initially and they may not be what this group can accept in the long run.

 

PS:  I love good casting because I swear Members Only really did look like he could be Deanna's biological son.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Timetoread

[Darknight]

Finally Rick shaves and takes a bath. I love how they're all sleeping on the floor together like a family. Never let your guard down. I have a bad feeling about this town just like the governor.

[ghoulina]

On re-watch I noticed Rick glancing a the steeple during the interview with Deanna. Foreshadowing? Who would the sniper be?

 

I didn't think it was foreshadowing, just highlighting how paranoid Rick has become. We saw a lot of that in this episode - his inability to sleep, freaking out when he can't find Carl and Judith. I can't say that I blame him. After all they've been through. 

 

One small detail I noticed.  It can't be a coincidence that the comic book Carl found in the attic that belonged to Enid was titled: "Wolf Fight!"

 

I noticed that too, and I definitely thought THAT was foreshadowing. 

 

There is just no way that Carl can be one of "the video game playing - I hope I don't get in trouble with my Dad" type of kids. Eventually, Carl and that creepy girl will live on the ashes of the old world these people are holding on to.

 

And it's not only an issue of CAN Carl be one of those kids, but I don't think he really WANTS to. I mean sure, his inner kid instinct wants to just chill out and have fun. But he recognizes how complacent these people are and he does not want that to happen to his group. I thought that was what he was struggling with in that kid's room. He may be torn between his humanistic desire to just have fun and be a kid, and knowing that the world outside hasn't changed and that living that way may not be good for them. Carl has really become a wise little bastard, and I love him. 

[Bad Example]

I also thought Deanna was bullshitting them when she was on Glen's side over the dispute with her dumb son. I don't know why yet, but I think she is very good at manipulating people. I don't think she is another governor or Terminus person, but something is just off in this fairy tale world.

 

Oh, absolutely.  Made me wonder if we'd start the next ep seeing exactly what happened in the dumb-son conversation that she tried to make sound like would be a dressing-down.

 

 

 

 But even then, Glenn just knocked Aiden on his ass, making it clear that he didn't even consider it a fight. Loved it. I also loved how all the crew came out and were ready to throw down, without even knowing what was going on.

 

Glenn was spot-on with everything he did this episode.  I also loved Daryl's little smile when things got stirred up- "Finally, something I understand!"

 

 

Tovah Feldshuh?  Yes!  That is a fantastic addition to the show.  I've always loved her.

 

I'm not familiar with her. She's a tiny little thing, isn't she?  Andrew Lincoln is not a large man, and he seemed to tower over her.  

 

Rick does look much younger without the beard and I am so glad to see it go, but I agree he looks best with a scruff of a beard, and I hate the new cop uniform. Especially the tie. Is Michonne supposed to dress like that too? Good lord.

I am not sure yet what to make of Deanna. I kind of hope she's like President Laura Roslin from BSG, and that maybe the Alexandrians are good people who have been incredibly lucky, and that she realizes that and took in the gang to try to fix that. 

 

Clearly the first new law that needs to be enacted is that no matter what job Michonne is doing, it is a crime for her to have to cover those arms.  

 

I got a huge Laura "Airlock" Roslin vibe from her when she was talking about the people she exiled.  I don't think it's possible for her to be that awesome, though.  

 

This could be an unpopular opinion, but am I the only one who doesn't like how carefree Rick & Carl are with Judith?  When R&C first walk into their new "home", where is she??  And letting unknown people hold her, even if are old and seem super nice?  Maybe they told Carl they had acorns for her.....

 

I wondered where she was, too, and just figured that the baby (babies?) was having a really fussy day and it just wasn't going to work.  Took me out of the scene, but whatever.  

 

I think it's to early to call her incompetent.  She knows they need people like Rick and Co.  Is she a liar though?  I actually went back and rewatched Rick's portion of the interview.  She said they hadn't seen other people in a long time and hadn't brought people in for a long time.  Didn't that kid said that the girl teenager had only been there for 3 weeks?

 

I heard three weeks, too.

[Sakura12]

Clean shaven Rick looks so weird. Although it makes him look less threatening without the crazy homeless beard which is a good thing. I loved Carol playing docile, I just don't think Deana bought it. Aaron's been following that group for awhile, he's seen what they all could do  including Carol, that's the whole reason they brought them in. 

 

Deana's a politician, she's an expert in manipulating the truth. So she's smart but her group is not world weary as any one that survived on the outside. Her brains won't help if a stronger group wants to take what they have.  I do think she's hoping these people are so desperate for a home that she can manipulate them to listen to her. Daryl is going to be a problem and she will probably want to kick him out. She's coning them but you cannot con people that have resorted to their animal instincts, they react to threats with death. 

 

I think Rick's warning about not letting people inside their gates is going to come true. I think Enid's spying for her group on the outside. She's a survivor like our group so she's not a regular kid anymore. That was smart of them, no one is going to turn away a lone teenager especially that group. Once she saw Carl and his group enter the town she had to go tell her group that stronger people have arrived and they will have more of a fight if they want to take the town. 

[Bad Example]

A few more observations and questions:

 

Carl going to school?  Poor kid.  I suppose it has to happen from Rick's POV at least for appearances, but really, we all know that ship has sailed.  Carl's done too much to be a kid.

If you think kids *now* ask what good algebra is going to do them in the real world, imagine someone trying to teach it to them in the ZA.  They're not lucky enough for school to be Carol's Storytime Tea and Ten Ways to Kill.  

 

Someone upthread asked this, too, and I didn't see an answer.  I also wondered if the scene with Rick and Jessie's husband could be a dream?  Maybe the whole scene with Michonne before it, too?  It was such a blunt cut to Rick asleep on the front porch (?) afterward that I'm questioning it.

Also, Carol as she disarmed.  Rick said something to her about "second" that I couldn't make out.  Was he asking about a second weapon?  Did she get rid of that also?  If she was hiding one, it seemed strange for Rick to call that out in front of everyone.  I definitely missed something.
 

[ghoulina]

Now, possibly unpopular: I haven't given much of a shit about Daryl since pretty much season 3. I don't dislike him, I like Norman Reedus, and I think he's ridiculously charming, I just couldn't have cared less about his character, for quite a long time. This episode made me interested in him again, and I'm glad for that.

 

Same here. Daryl started out as my favorite character, but by the time season 4 came along he had moved several notches down. And this season I have really been tired of him. But last night I was feeling drawn to him again. For some reason him "moping" about this new community is so much more palatable than him moping about Beth. 

I think Rick's warning about not letting people inside their gates is going to come true. I think Enid's spying for her group on the outside. She's a survivor like our group so she's not a regular kid anymore. That was smart of them, no one is going to turn away a lone teenager especially that group. Once she saw Carl and his group enter the town she had to go tell her group that stronger people have arrived and they will have more of a fight if they want to take the town.

 

Completely and totally agree with you. As soon as I realized it was Enid that Carl saw outside the gates in the beginning, I was guessing that she was sent in as a spy for a rougher group who wants to take the town over. 

[BrokenRemote]

I know what's her name talked about the building of the walls, but did she say how long it took? I would just think, based upon what we've seen so far, they have a bunch of idiots there, and I would think that with all the noise and movement of living people, there would have been not just a swarm of walkers to come through, but swarms of walkers to come through. After all, that's a pretty densely populated place. But, I know, I shouldn't worry about details!

Yeah, but if she's telling the truth, the whole area, millions, were evacuated right as things started going down. Not many left behind, just a few stragglers. She said they hadn't seen anyone, living or dead, in quite a while. So it's up to whether you believe her, but they did cover those details.

[Happy Harpy]

I really enjoyed this episode.

 

 

Father-son bonding over killing Walkers? That's what I want to see. I love how Rick and Carl's relationship has evolved, and how they now truly rely on each other. It's one of the perks of TV shows, you have the time to see the characters change - and even progress, when the writers care about something else than regression for the sake of drama. I also loved when Rick mentioned Carl's opinion to Carol and Daryl, showing that he valued it.

 

Talking about the Old Guard, Carol rules. I think that Daryl doesn't like the idea of having to blend in a community where the rules have been established by others; but indeed, I think that he might be making it glaring on purpose. He can divert the attention on himself, as the reluctant/possible problematic one, and give more leeway to his buddies.

 

I like how Rick has his circles of trusts that he confides in, in different ways. Carl, for one. Daryl/Carol. Michonne. I'm overjoyed that Rick and Michonne are going to work together. Love it.

 

Glenn rocked it as much laying it bare, as Carol did with dissimulation. I wonder why we didn't see Rick consult him and Maggie. Considering that he won't be working with Rick, and after the fight, I think that he and Daryl might become new "partners in crimes". Although I wouldn't mind Glenn and Maggie be more of a "battle couple"; they're awesome when they fight together.

 

That's the only thing I've been having a hard time with during this part of the season.  I don't understand why Michonne has this overwhelming need to settle down.  She seemed like she was fine as long as she was with people (Carl and Rick, mainly); but the overwhelming need for a place is something that I don't understand where its coming from with her.  It bugs me in a way it doesn't with Glenn and others.

I'm probably way off base, but I don't think it's about herself. I think it might be about the children: Judith (and Andre) and Carl.

Judith is the one Michonne mentioned when she told Rick they needed to settle down; I don't think she said Carl's name then. Maybe talking about her son with Carl has made feelings and fears come back to the surface, especially now that she has bonded with Judith. Michonne might have lost her son in a camp, but the people she had with her weren't reliable/were weak. Now Judith has reliable/strong people around, so imo, Michonne might feel they need a base to give her the best chance of survival. Considering how short a "Baby vs Wild" match would be, I can see why she'd be in a hurry, and want to believe in the first legit-looking opportunity.

There's also her discussion with Carl after the Termites, when he told her he was a monster. It's less urgent than Judith, but it's also a reason why she's so eager to find a place to stay, imo. I think that she wants the most "normal" and "safe" for him, so that he doesn't lose himself.

 

And maybe she's right to have a good feeling about Alexandria. Her intuition was, I think, pretty much on the spot so far. Imagine, strangers happening to be decent people...what a shocker after the last string of psycho/socio/whateverpaths ! I like Deanna so far, I think she could be what she says she is.

Her son and Barber doll's husband are the obligatory source of tension/problems; maybe they're red herrings though. I certainly hope so for the latter, because one or two anvils were falling in a direction I'd dread.

 

I think I could love Enid. She's the character who interested me the most, and I'm not too much into kids/teenagers usually (except for the Grimes kids).  I wonder what she's cooking. I don't know why, but she reminded me a bit of Michonne in the beginnings. Maybe the closed off/kickass side? And Carl with a crush is just too cute. I really like how he can be a badass zombie killer one minute and an awkward teenager wondering why the girl doesn't like him the next.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Haleth]

I loved that Daryl had such great lines.  "I brought dinner."  "You look ridiculous."  Carol had a good one too on the tape about being a "people person."  Yeah, we've seen how she interacts with people.
Glad to see our core group is adament about not turning soft.  Hope Michonne doesn't fall into complacency.  Glenn was back to being awesome in his encounter with ROTC boy.  "No one is impressed."  Back off dude.
Rick's comment about taking the place was kind of scary, despite his good intentions.  I think even the Governor thought he was doing the right thing.

 

Where is Enid's family?  Were they the ones that were exiled and she is taking supplies to them?  I have no doubt she found the gun in the blender.

One thing I thought a bit weird was the obvious quick passage of time shown, since it seemed like 30 seconds after shaving, Rick was pretty noticeably stubbly again.

Because he's manly like that.

Second,  why did the CDB crew submit to questioning on film without asking many questions of their own?

I guess it's like Aaron said, Rick wouldn't believe anything Deanna said anyway so why bother?

 

I want soooo much for Daryl to suddenly appear all newly showered and coiffed and Carol say to him, "You look ridiculous."

Edited March 2, 2015 by Haleth

[SevenStars]

I am not convinced Deanne is buying Carol's granny act. It would of been a bad idea to call her out on it. Time will tell.

 

Also, they had the guy (can't remember his name) following the group, which means they seen Carol in action. I'm sure he has told Deanne everything he has seen the group handle and the dynamic of the group. So while what Carol is doing is smart, I don't think it is working because Deanne already knows too much.

[Timetoread]

I'm probably way off base, but I don't think it's about herself. I think it might be about the children: Judith (and Andre) and Carl.

Judith is the one Michonne mentioned when she told Rick they needed to settle down; I don't think she said Carl's name then. Maybe talking about her son with Carl has made feelings and fears come back to the surface, especially now that she has bonded with Judith. Michonne might have lost her son in a camp, but the people she had with her weren't reliable/were weak. Now Judith has reliable/strong people around, so imo, Michonne might feel they need a base to give her the best chance of survival. Considering how short a "Baby vs Wild" match would be, I can see why she'd be in a hurry, and want to believe in the first legit-looking opportunity.

There's also her discussion with Carl after the Termites, when he told her he was a monster. It's less urgent than Judith, but it's also a reason why she's so eager to find a place to stay, imo. I think that she wants the most "normal" and "safe" for him, so that he doesn't lose himself.

 

And maybe she's right to have a good feeling about Alexandria. Her intuition was, I think, pretty much on the spot so far. Imagine, strangers happening to be decent people...what a shocker after the last string of psycho/socio/whateverpaths !

 

I know that she is supposed to be an asexual robot creature who is all kill and no cuddle, but Michonne's behavior screams pregnant to me.  It's like she's forcing her husband to build the damn crib because it will be needed soon.  She didn't hook up with Rick - maybe Carl?  Nah, I'm kidding but I am trying to put my finger on her level of desperation.  I, unlike everybody else, am NOT trusting her instincts on this - and neither is Rick.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Timetoread

[Darknight]

As always the lack of sex on this show perplexes me. At least, they should heavily hint that Maggie/Glenn and Abraham/Rosita are off having sex marathons now that they have had showers and the opportunity for some privacy. All the sex on the show left with Darabont. Gimple must have no real comprehension of human sexual desires.

Who has time for sex during a time like this.

[Bad Example]

I know that she is supposed to be an asexual robot creature who is all kill and no cuddle, but Michonne's behavior screams pregnant to me.  It's like she's forcing her husband to build the damn crib because it will be needed soon.  She didn't hook up with Rick - maybe Carl?  Nah, I'm kidding but I am trying to put my finger on her level of desperation.  I, unlike everybody else, am NOT trusting her instincts on this - and neither is Rick.

 

While I disagree about the "asexual robot creature" and I don't think there's a chance in hell she's pregnant, this is exactly the sort of crazy-ass speculation that I love.  Because I think you're so right- that's exactly how Michonne is acting.  

[BrokenRemote]

Michonne is only as asexual and robotic as half of the rest of them. Is it insane that as a mother she'd have those maternal instincts for the kids in her extended family? Makes more sense to me.

Re watched and it's definitely 8 months they said Enid has been there.

Edited March 2, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Texasmom1970]

Was that clown wearing a Member's Only jacket?

Glenn should pound caked his ass even more for that.

And calling guns biscuits, who does that?!

Silly ass wouldn't last a day in dem ZA streets..

Great minds think alike. I said the thing about him wearing a members only jacket just a couple posts before yours. I totally agree he needs his ass kicked just for wearing one.

As stupid as this group behaves around walkers it shouldn't be hard for Rick and CDB to get rid if them if necessary.

[Bad Example]

Who has time for sex during a time like this.

 

I thought that Maggie smelling the clean sheets in the background made it clear that she thinks she's got time for sexytime ahead of her!  Sure, it's about the luxury of clean and the scent of soap, too... but at this point, for Maggie and Glenn, sex on a bed in a totally private space is a downright kinky novelty.  

 

Kidding aside, I don't think it's about time.  It's about desperation and death being so commonplace--why not feel good for a few minutes because it's so easy to believe it'll be your last opportunity.  Like Simones, I'm also perplexed by the lack of sex.  

[Texasmom1970]

I still am so confused as to why Daryl was absent during the scene where the group was giving up their weapons (where was he?), and how he had his crossbow later. They let him keep it? Really?

Would you want to be the one to try to get the crossbow away from Darryl? I know I wouldnt, I don't even know if any of them could physically take it away, he'd give them an ass whoopin.

[BrokenRemote]

Would you want to be the one to try to get the crossbow away from Darryl? I know I wouldnt, I don't even know if any of them could physically take it away, he'd give them an ass whoopin.

I agree and I figured that would happen. I think it's odd that they wouldn't show it to us though, since it would help them to establish "outsider Daryl" like they've been trying to do. And where was he, physically, when they were handing in guns? Did the new group just let him wander around swinging his possum after they tried and failed to disarm him? Inquiring minds want to know!

Edited March 2, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[JackONeill]

Thank god they didn't put Rick in a Member's Only jacket. With the fresh-shaven face, people would have thought he was one of the Hardy Boys.

[Samx]

Also, they had the guy (can't remember his name) following the group, which means they seen Carol in action. I'm sure he has told Deanne everything he has seen the group handle and the dynamic of the group. So while what Carol is doing is smart, I don't think it is working because Deanne already knows too much.

 

I think that's partly true. I can't remember seeing any badassery from Carol since before the hospital (assuming b/c of her injuries) so maybe she was a little more subdued and Aaron didn't get a chance to see her go full Exterminator. However, I'm sure Deanna knows that Carol isn't the delicate flower she's portraying herself to be - no one gives the den mother such a large rifle. I think Deanna is smart enough to know Carol is putting on an act but will damn sure keep an eye on her, even at the old folks home. I really did enjoy Melissa McBride's performance though.

 

I really like the interview scenes and hope we get to see everyone's at some point. I really enjoyed this episode and can't wait to see how Alexandria plays out.

[diebartdie]

I'm sure this is a comics spoiler but explain?

 

It's not from the comics; inside Noah's neighborhood was graffiti that read "WOLVES NOT FAR" but because of how the scene was filmed and where the words were written, at first glance it looked like "WOLVES NOT FAIR" and now we have our very own meme.

I'm going to say almost the same thing I said last week

 

There's only 4 more episodes in this season, when are they going to start the big story?

This IS the "big story", this season there is no external, all encompassing "big bad" other than the situation our heroes find themselves in.

 

Regarding Enid -- she could be in contact with a people outside and may bring them supplies (family or friend/boyfriend who was exiled?), but she could also be setting up her own escape/backup plan in case things go bad. If she was living outside the community until 8 months ago, then she probably knows how vulnerable they are, just like Carl. But there's no where else for her to go, as with our group.

I like your thoughts on Enid, I still don't really think it was her family that was exiled, that just wouldn't make sense because she is still semi-feral like Coral, if she had been part of the ASZ with her family, then exiled, why would ASZ bring her back in and act like she was fresh off the boat like Coral?

 

I had a dream last night where instead of the lady who is actually playing the congress critter it was Kate Mulgrew and this morning I realize they really look similar, could even play sisters! Finally, That front gate is KILLING ME!!!!!! It is so flimsy and stupid, zeds could crawl under it, humans could tear the burlap down and just start shooting, it's just so freekin' WEAK!!!!

[JackONeill]

Didn't Deena, at the end (after the Glenn smack-down of her son), even nod towards Daryl when she said (in essence): "These people are welcome here"?

[Puffaroo]

Gotta love an episode where the scariest thing is a cardigan and a button down.

 

But freaking brilliant.  BTW, that doesn't make a twinset.  Just sayin'.  ;)

Edited March 2, 2015 by Puffaroo

[Tippi Blevins]

I was expecting Rick's face under the beard to be noticeably paler than the rest of his face. Like, glowing blue-white.

 

Why do they insist on shaving Andrew Lincoln's chest? We saw his little pelt in "Days Gone Bye" and it's been absent since. Maybe all the hair fell off in despair.

 

Enid spelled backwards is Dine! She's secretly a Terminus cannibal. Okay, not really, but something is up with that kid.

[Primetimer]

How long can Rick and his crew find peace in a peaceful place?

Read the story

[Timetoread]

Michonne is only as asexual and robotic as half of the rest of them. Is it insane that as a mother she'd have those maternal instincts for the kids in her extended family? Makes more sense to me.

Re watched and it's definitely 8 months they said Enid has been there.

It's not insane.  But I would think if she's feeling maternal towards Rick's kids that she'd articulate to their father, her BFF, Picard to her Riker, that "Carl and Judith need a home.  Stat!"  There is a certain irrationality to her "wanting to believe" - it's more like "needing to believe or else I will go completely nuts" - that makes me feel like it is deeper than simply caring about somebody else's children.   Did she have some one on one time with Tyrese?  How about Pee Pants, whose track record with keeping his priestly vows isn't exactly stellar?  How long ago since the prison when she and Daryl would go on those anonymous runs?  Maybe that's why Daryl is so intense right now and weeping to himself.  Hershel had a special gleam in his eye before the Governor got him - perhaps Maggie has a new sibling on the way.  I'll stop.  Joking aside, the shows writers can be dull instruments at times, but I feel like Danai Guirira would only act pregnant if she IS pregnant.  She is ACTING pregnant - or on the verge of a breakdown.  There's something she's not telling us.

[tv echo]

I was surprised by how few people appear to live in that Alexandria community.  Are they all hiding in their houses?  I was also surprised that Alexandria had the 'no guns' rule.  It seems shortsighted.  If walkers (or other enemies) break into the community, the residents are going to lose valuable time getting the weapons out of storage.

 

I think cleaning up Rick and company was to show their attempt to blend in to the community and acclimate back to some sense of 'normalcy'.  But they'll probably find out that they can't and don't want to change who they've become.  

 

I find the cleaned-up Rick and Carol much scarier now than before.  Now, they've got the deceptively harmless and civilized exterior, but they're still feral and ruthless underneath - so you'll never see the knife coming.  In fact, most of Rick's gang is deceptively dangerous.  Aiden probably thought he could bully Glenn, but he didn't know that Glenn once fought off a walker while tied to a chair.  Probably the only one that Aiden could beat from Rick's group would be Eugene (and Judith).

 

I'm still wondering who took that gun that Rick hid before they entered the community.

Edited March 2, 2015 by tv echo