S05.E15: Welcome To Amsterdam?

[talula]

I have a friend whose mom had early onset Alzheimer's disease and acted very similar to Kim in the last few episodes...especially this one.  She would make calls at all times of the night thinking it was 3:30 PM when it was really 3:30 AM.  She would forget what day it was or when something occurred. Her personality changed from courteous and kind to mean spirited.  She would take on a persecution complex and blame others for all sorts of things from the past and turn to sudden yelling fits.  She seemed to be annoyed and become irritated easily. She could also be very easily manipulated by my friends sister who would talk to her daily.  All her life her mom treated her sister and her alike...never played favorites. Once she had Alzheimer disease she put all her trust in one sister and not the other. Once diagnosed she wore a medicine patch for the disease. It didn't help much.

 

The way Brandi has easily manipulated Kim by saying she'll protect her from her sister brought back the memories.  All the problems Kim seems to have are so similar.  I pray it's not true...but who knows?

Edited February 25, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[Sincerely Yours]

Aside from the fact that Lisa R witnessed Kim, high as a kite in the limo, during the poker game/lesson and then in the driveway she has also had Brandi spill Kim's secrets to her causing her alarm to go off even louder. IMO, what Brandi told her during that lunch pushed Lisa R to do something more so than Kim's actual behavior the night of the poker party. Brandi told her "things are far worse than anyone knows", that Kim was suicidal at times, that she was using a "patch" for her hernia pain, that Kim was overloaded and in real distress and it was Brandi that mentioned an intervention, not Lisa. In fact, Lisa said no at first and then Brandi asked Lisa to speak to Kyle about what she told her and that maybe Lisa could set up an intervention for "all" of the women so that Kim did not feel singled out. Then she, Brandi, told Kim and Yolanda this was all from Lisa R and nothing was from her.

 

I have to ask why Brandi felt the need to setup Lisa R in this way, did she do this to anger/hurt Kyle because she and Lisa are real friends outside the show? To destroy any credibility Lisa would have on the show and too the other women?

 

 

One cannot simply have a conversation with Kim Richards.  One can talk at Kim or in Kim's general direction, but Kim does not converse.  She does not discuss, listen, internalize what is being said, or think about what she would like to say before it comes out her mouth.   She does not reason nor consider.  A conversation with Kim is called a soliloquy.

Well if someone intends to insert themselves like Lisa R has then one needs to make an effort regardless. I'm not with this whole Kim doesn't have conversations so why bother excuse. The effort should at least be made and then AFTER Kim reacts however she reacts can a conclusion be made on how to move forward with future interactions and the such. Lisa V did it and decided nope don't want to poke the crazy anymore and left it at that. Done.

[Higgins]

I have a friend whose mom had early onset Alzheimer's disease and acted very similar to Kim in the last few episodes...especially this one.  She would make calls at all times of the night thinking it was 3:30 PM when it was really 3:30 AM.  She would forget what day it was or when something occurred. Her personality changed from courteous and kind to mean spirited.  She would take on a persecution complex and blame others for all sorts of things from the past and turn to sudden yelling fits.  She seemed to be annoyed and become irritated easily. She could also be very easily manipulated by my friends sister who would talk to her daily.  All her life her mom treated her sister and her alike...never played favorites. Once she had Alzheimer disease she put all her trust in one sister and not the other. Once diagnosed she wore a medicine patch for the disease. It didn't help much.

 

The way Brandi has easily manipulated Kim by saying she'll protect her from her sister brought back the memories.  All the problems Kim seems to have are so similar.  I pray it's not true...but who knows?

Interesting observation although it could all also be explained by her addiction problems and personality. It's hard to know if this is new behavior or a pattern since we have only been seeing her for a few years and the edit leaves us without broader knowledge. Next year I bet if Lisa R returns, she will get a bitch edit. I think she already has but I suspect it could be worse. She would be smart to not film with her girls because they already been shown in an entitled bratty light.  

[WireWrap]

I don't think she set up Rinna specifically.  I think Rinna just gave her an opportunity to cast herself as Caring BFF in the story that would inevitably be built around the massive blowout at Eileen's poker party.  Brandi's redemption arc was short-lived, killed by tossing wine at Eileen.  This was a good way to try and avoid being the villain.

I do think she went after Lisa R specifically but I also think Lisa R made it easy for her because Lisa was real in her concern about Kim.

 

 

Well if someone intends to insert themselves like Lisa R has then one needs to make an effort regardless. I'm not with this whole Kim doesn't have conversations so why bother excuse. The effort should at least be made and then AFTER Kim reacts however she reacts can a conclusion be made on how to move forward with future interactions and the such. Lisa V did it and decided nope don't want to poke the crazy anymore and left it at that. Done.

Lisa did try to talk to Kim, face to face, it was at the reading at Eileen's home. But Kim went into her "Blah, blah, blah" talk and refused to acknowledge their legit concerns about/for her because of HER bizarre behavior poker night. Maybe if Kim had just said "Thank You, I will consider what you have said" it would have ended there and then but no, they got "Blah, blah, blah", eye rolls and attitude instead.

[missy jo]

Kim acts like a raving lunatic in the limo, scares Lisar, never says a word about it, and then gets mad because Lisa was talking to other castmates about her concern for Kim?

 

If I endured that limo ride, I'd feel entitled to talk about it 24/7.

 

Steven Tyler (I think Steven takes good care of himself all things considered so kissing wouldn't give me the vapors)

 

Nooo ... re: "takes good care of himself" - He has Hep C and says he's snorted "five to six million dollars in cocaine." He's an addict who's had periods of sobriety, but falls off the wagon on the regular.

Edited February 25, 2015 by missy jo

[SwordQueen]

One thing that both Kim and Brandi need to understand is that when a situation occurs between a group of people, they ALL have the right to speak about their experience, from their perspective, as much as they want, to whomever they want, and when they want.
 
Kim and Brandi going out in public and making a spectacle of themselves, then becomes a shared experience.  They are not owed having their bullshit be ignored and forgotten.  They are not owed silence, especially between the viewers and victims of said spectacle.  If they want to act like asses and hear nothing about it, then they need to stay at home. 

[talula]

Interesting observation although it could all also be explained by her addiction problems and personality. It's hard to know if this is new behavior or a pattern since we have only been seeing her for a few years and the edit leaves us without broader knowledge. Next year I bet if Lisa R returns, she will get a bitch edit. I think she already has but I suspect it could be worse. She would be smart to not film with her girls because they already been shown in an entitled bratty light.  

So true...just brought it forward because something is up with Kim...and it reminded me of my friend's mom.  I have alcoholics in my husbands family...but none are like Kim.  They are nice people who have a disease.  All have either joined a program for years and years and others have quit drinking like LisaR's husband.  It seems to be inherited like eye or hair color. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[LilaFowler]

I'm so tired of Brandi and Kim.  This show would improve so much if those two assholes were not on it.  Kim shouldn't be on the show anyway considering her sobriety issues.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I like house porn and closets as much as the next person but that Target moment pissed me off. That's such 1%-er bullshit. "I was going to wear this adorable raincoat but on second thought it's not expensive enough. My teenage daughter who just reversed her opinion on it after I pointed out the brand has convinced me."

[missy jo]

Kim and Brandi need to understand is that when a situation occurs between a group of people, they ALL have the right to speak about their experience, from their perspective, as much as they want, to whomever they want, and when they want.

 

This! "Say it to my face" is a big reality-show thing. If something happens to you, you should be allowed to speak of it, IMO.

[Persnickety1]

No one said they have to like Kim's responses but if you're going to be running around the Kim's addiction storyline with strong opinions and such convictions, ummmm maybe have a one on one conversation with the chick first? At this point if she does try it's too late because Kim know that she was talking about her before coming to her.

 

To be fair, she did try to talk to her one and one.

 

She was very direct and asked Kim if she had been drinking or if she were sober in the back of the limousine.

 

We saw how that went.

 

And, thanks for reminding me of something I've been meaning to bring up.

 

If Kim's behavior on poker night was the result of taking "a" pain pill, why did she not mention this to Lisa Rinna in the limousine ride?

 

She could have said something as simple as, "Oh, I took something for my (insert pain of choice here), and I don't think it's agreeing with me.  Maybe I should go home and sleep it off."

 

Nope, never even mentioned it.  The "a pain pill" story apparently didn't occur to Kim until after the poker night shenanigans were underway.  

 

No matter how many excuses one can try to create to explain the inexplicable, there's just no excuse for Kim and her nasty behavior.  

 

None.   

Edited February 25, 2015 by Persnickety1

[wifey81]

When it comes to the women this week, one theme comes to mind; 'she doth protest too much.'

When you're SECURE in a happy committed loving relationship, most people don't feel the need to constantly publically praise and be over demonstrative with affection...

Yolanda you doth protest too much. Actions speak louder than words. David, your love, your beloved, doesn't seem to dote on you in the way you dote on him and that imbalance makes me uncomfortable. You are wife number 4 and you guys spend a lot of time apart. Now give it a rest. You are overcompensating for something that is lacking in your marriage (I suspect you lack security and that's valid - refer back to being wife number 4).

When you've ACTUALLY been sober for three years, most people have settled into their recovery. They have learn skills to cope without their addiction and know the warning signs for when to look for more help and support. They wouldn't, in my opinion, be so completely defensive when someone shows concern for them...

Kim you doth protest too much. If you're not even willing to acknowledge that your behavior on Poker Night was concerning or that it is murky territory for any addict to be taking pain medication, then you're obviously not engaged in recovery. Its actually really sad because the aggression you are showing towards Lisa R smells like shame to me. I think you have a shame attack every time someone even hints at your addiction and I think we all know that's thanks to Mommie Dearest, Big Kathy, and her emotionally crippled "keep it all in the family'' crap. There is nothing open or honest here.. Sick as your secrets indeed.. 

And when you're TRULY a good friend to someone, you care about them and their welfare, you don't need to a) constantly say that you're always there for them or b) constantly talk about how other people are not there for the same person. Friendship is not built on bashing the loved ones of your friends. Friendship is not built on brownie points you give to yourself for being an awesome friend...

Brandi.. you doth protest too much! Your caring friend routine is fooling no one. Ok it is fooling Kim right now but that's not setting the bar very high, so to speak. For the sake of pretense could you at least hold onto the inside scoop Kim has given you on her life until she turns on you for 'being supportive but not supportive enough' and you expose her like the unscrupulous, mean spirited childish woman we know you to be.

/endrant

[Higgins]

When it comes to the women this week, one theme comes to mind; 'she doth protest too much.'

When you're SECURE in a happy committed loving relationship, most people don't feel the need to constantly publically praise and be over demonstrative with affection...

Yolanda you doth protest too much. Actions speak louder than words. David, your love, your beloved, doesn't seem to dote on you in the way you dote on him and that imbalance makes me uncomfortable. You are wife number 4 and you guys spend a lot of time apart. Now give it a rest. You are overcompensating for something that is lacking in your marriage (I suspect you lack security and that's valid - refer back to being wife number 4).

When you've ACTUALLY been sober for three years, most people have settled into their recovery. They have learn skills to cope without their addiction and know the warning signs for when to look for more help and support. They wouldn't, in my opinion, be so completely defensive when someone shows concern for them...

Kim you doth protest too much. If you're not even willing to acknowledge that your behavior on Poker Night was concerning or that it is murky territory for any addict to be taking pain medication, then you're obviously not engaged in recovery. Its actually really sad because the aggression you are showing towards Lisa R smells like shame to me. I think you have a shame attack every time someone even hints at your addiction and I think we all know that's thanks to Mommie Dearest, Big Kathy, and her emotionally crippled "keep it all in the family'' crap. There is nothing open or honest here.. Sick as your secrets indeed.. 

And when you're TRULY a good friend to someone, you care about them and their welfare, you don't need to a) constantly say that you're always there for them or b) constantly talk about how other people are not there for the same person. Friendship is not built on bashing the loved ones of your friends. Friendship is not built on brownie points you give to yourself for being an awesome friend...

Brandi.. you doth protest too much! Your caring friend routine is fooling no one. Ok it is fooling Kim right now but that's not setting the bar very high, so to speak. For the sake of pretense could you at least hold onto the inside scoop Kim has given you on her life until she turns on you for 'being supportive but not supportive enough' and you expose her like the unscrupulous, mean spirited childish woman we know you to be.

/endrant

Shame, that is exactly right IMO. She is defensive and filled with shame because she just can't make it last. I feel sorry for her.

[imjagain]

If I endured that limo ride, I'd feel entitled to talk about it 24/7.

Nooo ... re: "takes good care of himself" - He has Hep C and says he's snorted "five to six million dollars in cocaine." He's an addict who's had periods of sobriety, but falls off the wagon on the regular.

I agree. If I had the ride from hell with "sober" Kim I would be telling people all day about it. It was so freakin crazy. I understand trying to protect people but Lisa R has every right to tell people her experience with Kim in that limo.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around 5-6 million dollars of cocaine! I was once cornered by one of my husband's friends new girlfriend, she explained she had snorted about 60,000 worth of coke over the years. I had no idea what to say except "so you're good now?" ...she was a nut.

[msblossom]

In the preview, it looks like Kim is ready to out some nasty gossip about Harry. LisaR says, "Don't you touch my husband!", and Kim says "Everyone will know, Everyone will know what he did...!" Kim is really going for the jugular and is out for some revenge on LisaR.

At this point, I think Kim is seeing red. She's such a bitch, what a way to suck all the air out of the room. It's clear that she's starting to make even Yolanda uncomfortable now -- being a complete ass, bitching, and making the trip a real bust. She's in a bitter, enraged state of mind and she's about to explode. How is it that Bravo thinks this is remotely entertaining? She's ill and has no business being on tv.

[SwordQueen]

Hell hath no fury like a woman white-knuckling sobriety. 

[mwell345]

 

That's how I felt, too, a few weeks ago.  So I took some time off from watching and commenting and came back with a better sense of humor about the whole thing. Decided none of these women were worth my elevated blood pressure. LOL I haven't been excited about a BH episode in a long time but I'm looking forward to Lisa Rinna losing her mind next week.

 

Well, maybe that's what I need to do.  It's not that my blood pressure gets elevated - it's just that the show to me is no longer enjoyable with Kim (and to a lesser degree Brandi) as the focus.   I find neither woman entertaining or even likeable.   All of this with Kim has played out before, season after season.  I know that I sound like a broken record, but I just don't understand why, with women like Lisa R, Lisa V, Eileen and Yolanda, who all lead interesting lives, the focus is on Kim and Brandi.

[SuzWhat]

Kim was right to be pissed on the plane to Calgary. She was the only one sitting facing that way and the lighting was HORRIBLE. Bitch looked HAg. Gard.

[WireWrap]

Kim was right to be pissed on the plane to Calgary. She was the only one sitting facing that way and the lighting was HORRIBLE. Bitch looked HAg. Gard.

She did look bad! I think maybe Kim was withdrawing from what ever she has been indulging herself with, be it Monty's elephant pain pills, his pain "patch" her psych meds she takes like tic tacs or what, she was in withdraw IMO.

[Higgins]

She did look bad! I think maybe Kim was withdrawing from what ever she has been indulging herself with, be it Monty's elephant pain pills, his pain "patch" her psych meds she takes like tic tacs or what, she was in withdraw IMO.

If she were in true withdrawal from either opiates or benzodiazepines she wouldn't have made it at all.

[WireWrap]

If she were in true withdrawal from either opiates or benzodiazepines she wouldn't have made it at all.

I think Kim stopped taking whatever it was when the trip was announced. How long after the scavenger hunt was the flight to Canada?

[HumblePi]

Am I expecting too much to hope that one day mature affluent women will cease and desist the 'high-five'?  I mean, it looks awkward at times and isn't the high-five or knuckle pump something that we could expect from guys in the NFL or Little League? I have an idea, how about using real words like 'very nice!' or 'that's great!' or even 'good job!'

 

Ladies... Stop, please, just stop before you embarrass yourselves like these two did on TV

 

 

Even Steven Tyler gets messed up, here's the combination high-five and knuckle bump, I call it the 'mid-way ficklenump'. Now if it was LisaV messing it up, then it would be the 'low vanderpumppump'

 

Edited February 26, 2015 by HumblePi

[Noire]

I've not been feeling well all week and was going to go to bed right after the show, but I've got my second wind, so I'm using it to bitch about the show.  lol

 

Kim is a sucking black hole of need.  And I’ve said this before; nothing will ever be enough for her.  No one will ever be able to give her enough, because there is no enough, there’s only not enough.   Kim sucks the air, the fun, the emotional honesty, and the serenity right out of the room.  And THIS, my friends, is why I feel for Kyle and anyone and anything Kim targets.  Save yourself, Lisa R.

 

I love this post so much I could marry it; it articulates exactly how I feel.  I would absolutely cut Kim off and love her from afar.  It is absolutely why I too feel for Kyle and how she's been Kim's hostage for years.   Kyle needs to understand it's okay to have her own life and not cater to this Energy Vampire's needs.

[SoCal4Us]

Kim Swims with Sharks and Gets Eaten Alive!!!

 

Story at 6:00!

 

I keep hoping there's a lot of acting going on and they're all in on it...I don't want sad stories on the BH wives, I want to escape and not overanalyze every single word and facial expression.  My reality tv should not be too real lol.

[HumblePi]

I love this post so much I could marry it; it articulates exactly how I feel.  I would absolutely cut Kim off and love her from afar.  It is absolutely why I too feel for Kyle and how she's been Kim's hostage for years.   Kyle needs to understand it's okay to have her own life and not cater to this Energy Vampire's needs.

SWORDQUEEN you said exactly what I felt when I watched Kim and LisaR go head-to-head inside the private jet. Kim is like one of those plastic storage bags that you put all your summer stuff in to store away, you stick your vacuum hose in the opening and it sucks all the air out of the bag and it turns into a small squashed heap of stuff you can shove under the bed.  Kim leaves me with that feeling all the time, every single episode. She's sucking the life out of the show and I wish I could just shove her under the bed and not take her out until next summer.  Kim.. shoo shoo

[Umbelina]

Lipsa tried to talk to Kim ON CAMERA!  After she had already brought Kim up with everyone else repeatedly.

 

For camera time.  For image.  For any number of reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with something that would help Kim.  Because humiliating Kim will not help her, it will just drive her further into escape and finding something to help dull the pain.

 

If she was so concerned about Kim, she had plenty of opportunity to speak with Kim without the Bravo cameras around.  So bullshit on her "concern" and "good person" routine. 

 

Kim has a disease.  It's an annoying disease, for her, and everyone who knows her.  She hasn't been able to completely get well yet, much like Yolanda with her Lyme disease or anyone else with a chronic illness.  I don't hate Kim because she's battling addictions.  I don't hate Kim because she's sick. 

 

I dislike her because she's a nasty mean girl, much like her horrid sister Kyle.  What a messed up family.

 

Lipsa was the one who brought up "it's genetic" and how many generations it goes back in Harry's family.  If those girls are Harry's daughters, I think she'd be concerned.  In that Bravo clip of the after party (Kyle's white party I think) up in extras, where Brandi was obviously drunk?  Well, so was Lipsa, she was slurring her words and trying to work her fake lips to make words.  Brandi got the attention because she was all loving drunker, but Lipsa was pretty drunk herself.

 

I still wonder if Harry and Kim shared a group AA thing.

[BluishGreen]

Kim does, for one.  Which is what I find so fake about Brandi’s “concern”.  It switches sides, like a person faking an injury forgets which leg is supposed to be the one supported, so one day they’ll limp on the left leg, and the next, it’s their right. 

 

According to Brandi:

Kim is strong.

Kim is too fragile.

Kim is perfect.

Kim is not sober.

Kim doesn’t have Kyle’s support.

Kim doesn't need Kyle's support.

Kyle needs to leave Kim alone.

Kyle should have been there at 2am.

She can drink around Kim.

She can’t/shouldn’t drink around Kim.

Kim will kill herself if anyone mentions her addictions.

Kim is using highly medicated pain patches.

No one should be discussing Kim behind Kim’s back.

She discusses Kim to Jennifer, Yo, Eileen, Lisa R and Kyle, behind Kim’s back.

She wants someone to intervene on Kim’s behalf because she’s worried.

Other people want to intervene on Kim’s behalf because they are mean.

and on and on...

 

Perfect.

[njbchlover]

Except Eileen does not have a nanny. This was clarified in a scene after poker night. Eileen also mentioned having a housekeeper once a week.

I have never left a note or list with my spouse, but I have called home on a daily basis to make sure this and that was done, and that our child took his medication, the dog received his medication, etc. I do it because I know my spouse has his work and his hands full as it is and it puts me at ease.

I do not know if Eileen was just being overly concerned and worried, as a lot of parents do when leaving minor children behind. It might be she knows her child won't follow through with doing things that he should, as some kids do. It is her child. She would after all, know him better than we do. She has probably left out of town before and realized things didn't go as planned at home so, she now has to leave behind instructions. Whatever the case may be, I don't see what is wrong with Eileen leaving a list.

As for Lisa, I make a list every single time I go on vacation. Every time. I have to make sure I packed the cameras and chargers, different shoes for excursions we will be taking, swim goggles, etc. I even jot down some of the clothes I need to make sure to take. I do not list every clothing item like Lisa, of course. If I do not have my list, I will forget to pack items or clothing that will be needed. I do this for for each of us in my family. My youngest once forgot to pack swim shorts. I had to buy a pair at our vacation resort which ended up costing a pretty penny.

 

I think Eileen is a pretty "hands-on" Mom.  She mentioned that this is the first trip she has ever gone on without bringing her son, and we saw a previous scene where she brought him to the studio and they reminisced about her bringing him when he was younger.  Eileen also seems like a pretty detailed-oriented person, where Vince seems  more laid back and kind of "go with the flow" (no allusions to his hair....LOL!!) guy.  I think they counter-balance each other pretty well.

 

As for Lisa and her packing list - I thought it was great, because I am the same as her - when I travel, I make lists of specific items of clothing, with coordinating accessories (shoes, jewelry, etc.)...I only wish that my list was as luxurious as hers - my "traveling" jewelry is mostly costume stuff and I don't have Chanel and LV bags!!

 

And, can I say that I thought Lisa looked fantastic when she was trying on clothes and she had on that beige sweater, navy blazer and jeans??  She really should dress down more often.

[Watermelon]

Lipsa tried to talk to Kim ON CAMERA!  After she had already brought Kim up with everyone else repeatedly.

 

For camera time.  For image.  For any number of reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with something that would help Kim.  Because humiliating Kim will not help her, it will just drive her further into escape and finding something to help dull the pain.

 

If she was so concerned about Kim, she had plenty of opportunity to speak with Kim without the Bravo cameras around.  So bullshit on her "concern" and "good person" routine. 

 

Kim has a disease.  It's an annoying disease, for her, and everyone who knows her.  She hasn't been able to completely get well yet, much like Yolanda with her Lyme disease or anyone else with a chronic illness.  I don't hate Kim because she's battling addictions.  I don't hate Kim because she's sick. 

 

I dislike her because she's a nasty mean girl, much like her horrid sister Kyle.  What a messed up family.

 

Lipsa was the one who brought up "it's genetic" and how many generations it goes back in Harry's family.  If those girls are Harry's daughters, I think she'd be concerned.  In that Bravo clip of the after party (Kyle's white party I think) up in extras, where Brandi was obviously drunk?  Well, so was Lipsa, she was slurring her words and trying to work her fake lips to make words.  Brandi got the attention because she was all loving drunker, but Lipsa was pretty drunk herself.

 

I still wonder if Harry and Kim shared a group AA thing.

Whatever Kim's issues this is a TV show. We all know her issues are real so why would concern have to be off camera to be real?

 

I'm not at all interested in coworkers having to talk to each other outside of work about the way their actions/addictions effect them.  Things off camera can be twisted, lied about, ignored 20 times as much as things people lie about that we see on TV.

 

Also, it's impossible to embarrass someone who doesn't believe in reality.

[Higgins]

We can't consider this work like our work. It is supposed to be like "real" life. How many of you drink at work?

[beaker73]

Kim was right to be pissed on the plane to Calgary. She was the only one sitting facing that way and the lighting was HORRIBLE. Bitch looked HAg. Gard.

No kidding. That was some rough shit.

First of all, if I were Lisa in that limo with Kim you bet your ass I'd be discussing it with the other ladies. Maybe not in a gossipy way, but in a WTF is going on with her and has anyone else experienced this kind of way. To say that her first course of action should be to pull Kim aside and have a heart to heart with her isn't realistic. Kim was off her rocker and there's no way I would have done that. Period.

I agree with whoever said it was a shame thing with Kim. She's an addict. I believe she's tried to get sober and failed. Instead of admitting that she had a setback or needs help, she gets angry. Angry that people know she failed. Kyle is the easiest person to take that anger out on because she knows her history and her secrets and I think that makes her feel vulnerable.

On a shallow note--I loved Yo's dress and Kyle's jumpsuit that they wore at the benefit. Is the dress Brandi had on the same one she wore last season for those headers or whatever you call them that precede each HoWives segment? Speaking of Brandi (sorry)--dude, her hair has been a hot flippin' mess this season. Perhaps she needs to get a new live in hairstylist.

Edited February 26, 2015 by beaker73

[Umbelina]

I'd love to just flip the wives, and then see how everyone would feel.

 

For example, if Kim or Brandi had told the story of being high and then spread eagled on the pool table.

 

If Kim or Brandi had cheated and taken a bike or a tour bus.

 

If Kim had misplaced her luggage and kept them waiting for an hour.

 

If Brandi or Kim had refused to drink the milkshake because it was chocolate, or if Brandi had said "EWWWW I don't want to share KYLE's straw!" 

 

If Kim or Brandi had refused to do the last clue and simply pushed their way into the restaurant?

 

If Kim or Brandi had jumped on stage, rubbed their crotch, and full mouth kissed the singer?  Then continued to dance on stage while he performed?  (I remember Kyle's fake-shock, disapproval of Camille for kissing her male friend, because "SHE IS MARRIED!" gasp.)

 

If Brandi had said "fuck this!  I hate this!" during the treasure hunt?

 

It's something to think about.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Umbelina

[Watermelon]

We can't consider this work like our work. It is supposed to be like "real" life. How many of you drink at work?

I do.

[zulualpha]

beaker73: First of all, if I were Lisa in that limo with Kim you bet your ass I'd be discussing it with the other ladies.

Fair enough but to use words like "whack a doodle", "crazy", off her rocker and the other stuff Lisar had said over and over again in her THs?  She knows perfectly well that Kim is a supposedly recovering addict and that Kim's behavior was almost certainly because she was under the influence of some substance.  So I just wonder why Lisar has to be so unkind.  Why not say something like, wow, I think Kim may have relapsed or KIm was behaving in a way that was concerning or some such thing.  I just don't like the name calling and I think that kind of labeling is a reason Kim is unwilling to discuss her sobriety or lack there of with people that are not her friends or family.  Eileen is up in Kim's business as well but at least she tried to be constructive with arranging the lunch between Kim and Kyle even though it didn't go well.

[Persnickety1]

I'd love to just flip the wives, and then see how everyone would feel.

 

For example, if Kim or Brandi had told the story of being high and then spread eagled on the pool table.

 

If Kim or Brandi had cheated and taken a bike or a tour bus.

 

If Kim had misplaced her luggage and kept them waiting for an hour.

 

If Brandi or Kim had refused to drink the milkshake because it was chocolate, or if Brandi had said "EWWWW I don't want to share KYLE's straw!" 

 

If Kim or Brandi had refused to do the last clue and simply pushed their way into the restaurant?

 

If Kim or Brandi had jumped on stage, rubbed their crotch, and full mouth kissed the singer?  Then continued to dance on stage while he performed?  (I remember Kyle's fake-shock, disapproval of Camille for kissing her male friend, because "SHE IS MARRIED!" gasp.)

 

If Brandi had said "fuck this!  I hate this!" during the treasure hunt?

 

It's something to think about.

 

In order to flip housewives and elicit different reactions to these things, it seems it would require also flipping every iota of these housewives' fundamental personalities.  

 

If, for example, Lisa V ran around drunk, belligerent, and blatantly stirring up shit everywhere she went, no one would be shocked at the "spread eagle" comment.  That's not we expect from Lisa V so of course it's kind of surprising to hear her utter such a thing.    

 

On the other hand, If Brandi had made the "spread eagle" comment, no one would be surprised because it would be in line with her past behaviors we've seen on the show and her own tales of drunken debauchery.

 

Our reactions are based on what we've been shown on the program and based on what we know of their personalities (which is I believe Bravo's intent with these shows, to keep us a bit in the dark about certain things the women are capable of saying or have said that they choose not to show us), so, forgive me, but I don't quite grasp what it is you're trying to convey with this post.

 

Maybe I need another cup of coffee because I'm probably not expressing myself well at all.  

[SwordQueen]

On a shallow note--I loved Yo's dress and Kyle's jumpsuit that they wore at the benefit. Is the dress Brandi had on the same one she wore last season for those headers or whatever you call them that precede each HoWives segment? Speaking of Brandi (sorry)--dude, her hair has been a hot flippin' mess this season. Perhaps she needs to get a new live in hairstylist.

 

I’ll sit riiiight here and be shallow with you for a minute.  I try not to zero in on and bash their looks, and usually I am too disgusted by what these women are saying to pay much attention, but I can’t stop myself from focusing on it sometimes. Tuesday, I caught the episode before the new one and had it on mute while I was doing something else. 

 

It was toward the end of the episode where Lisa R. and Brandi were having their conversation, when it caught my eye.  Looking at those women, without sound, had me focusing just on their faces.  It was almost like watching clay animation, with the amount of sculpting they have had done. Caught me completely off guard.  I’m not against plastic surgery at all, but it’s sad that people do this to themselves only because 1) it doesn't make them look better or more youthful, and 2) they all start to look the same.  Same facial tightness and overly smooth skin with cheekbones that look like they were already storing nuts for winter, when this was filmed last year. 

 

Now I don’t know much about hair extensions, but I thought their main purpose was to make someone’s hair look better than it was without them.  Why women go around with shitty extensions when they could just do something with their own hair is a mystery for the ages.  Even though it would be nice to see something different, I appreciate Lisa R.’s long-standing hairstyle, for the fact that it’s all hers, it suits her personality, and doesn’t seem to fall in line with what is trendy at any given time.

 

Okay, all done now.  lol

[beaker73]

Fair enough but to use words like "whack a doodle", "crazy", off her rocker and the other stuff Lisar had said over and over again in her THs?  She knows perfectly well that Kim is a supposedly recovering addict and that Kim's behavior was almost certainly because she was under the influence of some substance.  So I just wonder why Lisar has to be so unkind.  Why not say something like, wow, I think Kim may have relapsed or KIm was behaving in a way that was concerning or some such thing.  I just don't like the name calling and I think that kind of labeling is a reason Kim is unwilling to discuss her sobriety or lack there of with people that are not her friends or family.  Eileen is up in Kim's business as well but at least she tried to be constructive with arranging the lunch between Kim and Kyle even though it didn't go well.

Agreed. Perhaps calling her whackadoodle isn't nice. I did use the term "off her rocker" in my post, so I guess I'm just as guilty. :)

I’ll sit riiiight here and be shallow with you for a minute.  I try not to zero in on and bash their looks, and usually I am too disgusted by what these women are saying to pay much attention, but I can’t stop myself from focusing on it sometimes. Tuesday, I caught the episode before the new one and had it on mute while I was doing something else. 

 

It was toward the end of the episode where Lisa R. and Brandi were having their conversation, when it caught my eye.  Looking at those women, without sound, had me focusing just on their faces.  It was almost like watching clay animation, with the amount of sculpting they have had done. Caught me completely off guard.  I’m not against plastic surgery at all, but it’s sad that people do this to themselves only because 1) it doesn't make them look better or more youthful, and 2) they all start to look the same.  Same facial tightness and overly smooth skin with cheekbones that look like they were already storing nuts for winter, when this was filmed last year. 

 

Now I don’t know much about hair extensions, but I thought their main purpose was to make someone’s hair look better than it was without them.  Why women go around with shitty extensions when they could just do something with their own hair is a mystery for the ages.  Even though it would be nice to see something different, I appreciate Lisa R.’s long-standing hairstyle, for the fact that it’s all hers, it suits her personality, and doesn’t seem to fall in line with what is trendy at any given time.

 

Okay, all done now.  lol

LisaR was soooo greasy at the benefit. I wanted to reach through the tv and blot her. I think Yo looks worlds better since she ditched her extensions and platinum mullet.

[hypnotoad]

 

If it's about her being an asshole then talk to her about being an asshole

 

I think that's a fair way to look at this, but I really don't believe for a second that Kim would listen even then. I mean lets be real here. Has she bothered to apologize to Eileen for her behavior during poker night? I doubt it. Kim isn't enough of a grown up to own any of her behavior, so the odds of getting a conversation out of calling her an asshole are no better than discussing her alleged sobriety. Plus, her behavior in the limo and at poker night sort of open the floor up to discussions of sobriety since everyone knows she took drugs that night!

 

 

She characterized Kim as out of control and whack a doodle in the limo but imo she encouraged Kim by asking her to do an acting scene about how she felt and otherwise baiting her.

 

I didn't think she was baiting her at all, but rather trying to contain the situation in some way because she really had no idea what was going on.

 

 

I love him too!

 

I am joining your table! I'd rather kiss him than drink from Brandi's straw.

 

 

I'm so tired of Brandi and Kim.  This show would improve so much if those two assholes were not on it.

 

There is just no way for me to agree more.

 

 

It's something to think about

 

I disagree. I think for the most part the examples given were things said or done in a joking manner.

 

 

It was toward the end of the episode where Lisa R. and Brandi were having their conversation, when it caught my eye.  Looking at those women, without sound, had me focusing just on their faces.  It was almost like watching clay animation, with the amount of sculpting they have had done.

 

I'm not against plastic surgery per se, but most of these folks have gone too far. I don't even understand why Brandi started all of that at such a young age. Eileen is older than Lisa R and Brandi and looks much much younger.

Edited February 26, 2015 by hypnotoad

[BluishGreen]

Lisa V. and her ... cat of a different color.  

 

I'm as filthy-minded as anyone else, but I enjoy a little variety in my filth.  I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'm sick of hearing the word pussy.  Can you talk about something else now, Lisa?  Another body part, perhaps.  You can make armpit farting noises and everything would be coming up roses for me.   

Two for two.

[Umbelina]

No, anything Brandi or Kim do or say is torn apart and dissected endlessly.  The others?  Not so much.  I'll stand by my point.

 

I like to spread my dislike around.  ;)

Edited February 26, 2015 by Umbelina

[SwordQueen]

No, anything Brandi or Kim do or say is torn apart and dissected endlessly.  The others?  Not so much.  I'll stand by my point.

 

I like to spread my dislike around.  ;)

 

I want to reply to this, but I'm tired, and it would come out all stupid. ; )

 

So if this thread hasn't blown up by the time I log in again, I'll have a more smartified response. 

[motorcitymom65]

I'd love to just flip the wives, and then see how everyone would feel.

 

For example, if Kim or Brandi had told the story of being high and then spread eagled on the pool table.

 

If Kim or Brandi had cheated and taken a bike or a tour bus.

 

If Kim had misplaced her luggage and kept them waiting for an hour.

 

If Brandi or Kim had refused to drink the milkshake because it was chocolate, or if Brandi had said "EWWWW I don't want to share KYLE's straw!" 

 

If Kim or Brandi had refused to do the last clue and simply pushed their way into the restaurant?

 

If Kim or Brandi had jumped on stage, rubbed their crotch, and full mouth kissed the singer?  Then continued to dance on stage while he performed?  (I remember Kyle's fake-shock, disapproval of Camille for kissing her male friend, because "SHE IS MARRIED!" gasp.)

 

If Brandi had said "fuck this!  I hate this!" during the treasure hunt?

 

It's something to think about.

Yes, but the world doesn't work like that. It's like asking if a person who is perpetually late in paying their electric bill is viewed the same as the person who is never late and then suddenly misses a payment. They are not. Folks are judged not by what just happens in the minute, but based on a history of behavior. In S3 Brandi was cut all kinds of slack for the Adrienne reveal because folks saw her as someone who was very honest. She was given a pass for the most part because it seemed like she had many other redeeming qualities and therefore she could be forgiven for her mistake. She would never be able to get away with this now because she has been revealed as a horrible person. People are generally willing to give most folks a break for saying or doing something stupid, mean, or hurtful in the moment because most of us have done this at one time or the other. Once you start making a habit of it things change.

[GreatKazu]

sorry, my post is within a quote box and I can't fix it. Help moderator! 

 

I have a friend whose mom had early onset Alzheimer's disease and acted very similar to Kim in the last few episodes...especially this one.

It could be very well that Kim is also going through menopause. With menopause, the memory sometimes is not as good.  I will also throw in what I have thrown in before - brain damage. Alcoholics put their livers through hell and cause irreversible damage. I think some people forget that the brain is also affected and the damage is also irreversible. It is why sometimes addicts who do get themselves clean and sober, will be put on medication to help with the damage that has been done. As you know, I dealt with addicts in my life.  Two of them needed medication to help them with brain function. As for Kim, it could be multiple things such as any mental disorder she had prior to her addiction, the onset of menopause and the damage done to her brain. Of course, continued use of meds and alcohol doesn't help.

 

I am sorry to read about your friend's mother. Alzeimer's is a horrible disease that I watched two relatives go through.

 

 

If I endured that limo ride, I'd feel entitled to talk about it 24/7.

Thank you.  I didn't endure that ride from hell, but I feel entitled to comment on behalf of LisaR 24/7. If that had been me in that limo ride, I would be feeling exactly like LisaR did. Considering it was also captured on camera, there is no excuse that it is pure speculation and we don't know what went down. We saw it.

Lipsa tried to talk to Kim ON CAMERA!  After she had already brought Kim up with everyone else repeatedly.

For camera time.  For image.  For any number of reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with something that would help Kim.

Oh, you mean just like Brandi has done.

 

 

Well, so was Lipsa, she was slurring her words and trying to work her fake lips to make words.  Brandi got the attention because she was all loving drunker, but Lipsa was pretty drunk herself.

Did LisaR cuss out people when she felt the need to put them in their place? Did LisaR threaten to punch out people's teeth? Has LisaR been out publicly showing her tampon string as she was being held up by a friend before she ended up falling down? Has LisaR sat on other people's husband's laps at dinner parties? Has LisaR called another friend's spouse her "boyfriend"? Has LisaR claimed to mix Xanax with her liquor? Has LisaR claimed to need liquor to help her deal with her daily life? Has LisaR been accused of having sex in a friend's child's bathroom at a party? Did LisaR ever push anyone away from their sibling? Was it LisaR who talked about finger-banging at the Foster home in front of Babyface? Was it LisaR who needed to be told to behave herself and to stop bothering Babyface? Was it LisaR who was told to behave herself if she wanted to attend LisaV's surprise birthday party? Was it LisaR who had to be censored when the secret of Adrienne's children was exposed?   Kim and Brandi, and anyone else who is drinking, are allowed to be drunk, slurring their speech, fall down drunk, have a tampon string showing, or just be assholes whether they are stoned or sober.  What they don't have a right to do is, have their asshole behavior affect people around them. Cross that boundary, all bets are off.

Edited February 26, 2015 by stacey

[motorcitymom65]

I want to reply to this, but I'm tired, and it would come out all stupid. ; )

 

So if this thread hasn't blown up by the time I log in again, I'll have a more smartified response.

Oh come on. As a fan of your posts I hope you find the strength and energy to respond when you log back on.

[AnnA]

With the exception of the Foster Foundation's charity event in Calgary, last night's episode wasn't nearly as entertaining as reading through this entire thread so "Thank you - thank you all so very much." LOL

The only comment I have is about the Kim-LisaR dust-up on the plane and Kyle's reaction. Some of you believe LisaR was acting out of concern for Kim because of what happened with Harry's brothers, making it personal to her. Others think she's speaking on Kyle's behalf because they are friends and some believe she's being so vocal and participating in the drama to secure her spot on the show. It's probably a combination of all three but I think her primary motivation is having Bravo ask her back for next season.

This is in no way a defense of Kim's behavior but I felt that LisaR really started the whole thing. First she asked Kim if she was OK and when Kim did not respond pushed her again by asking Kim if she was mad at her. If LisaR had kept to herself or chatted with someone else, that ugly scene wouldn't have happened on the plane. It was destined to happen (thanks to Brandi) but it didn't have to happen at that moment in time. Chances are Bravo made it happen because otherwise, Kyle should have told them both that they were making her uncomfortable and not just Kim.

Edited February 26, 2015 by AnnA

[Rhetorica]

I'm just glad I'm not a mean ole drunk like Kim. I don't get drunk often but when I do, I'm a delight!

[BluishGreen]

Was that Yo's PP (TM J. Zarin)? Did they take that aircraft straight from Calgary to Amsterdam or fly commercial from Calgary?

I still say Yo is stealth, as evidenced by waltzing in her queenly robes into the hotel room in Calgary of one of the other girls " oh what a cute room" which we all know means "how cozy compared to my 5000 square foot Presidential Suite you peons..." If Adrienne can fool all of BH that she carried twins for 9months then Yolanda has the ability to use her Lyme disease to exit this ship of fools and skip reunion to save what's left of her cred and her girls' career and relationship with My Love, who probably told her in no uncertain terms at the words "finger banging" to exorcise the demons tout de suite or else. She is gracefully on her way out. The tense chocolate shake thing was some real Yo.

Lisa V has some bod! Yikes. Short legs, knock knees, big ass she is human after all. I can see why she strategically wears her dresses shoes and accessories to get the eye away from her figure below the waist. It was very awkward. Now I just need a maid and a fortune so I can wear a costume that flatters my blob shape!

Kim and Kyle are impossible to de code as they are siblings it's just too deep for me. Brandi is using it. Lisar I think is getting into it for the job but has good intentions, I love her and Eileen.

I wonder if Brandi is on the cleanse with Kim. Kim IS grumpy and mean and clean. She acts like a fitful child. No emotional growth since little Kim of Witch Mtn days. Kyle also.

 

Re: Lisa V's figure.  Yeah, that was surprising. Seeing her standing next to Kyle-- who has been continually mocked here and there for her weight, while Lisa V was simultaneously praised for her great figure-- was quite surprising, to say the least.  In reality, Kyle looked fit and athletic and ran like a deer, while Lisa V. looked quite dumpy and stumbled along like someone had taped her knees together.  I thought maybe Lisa V. was trying to smuggle two couch cushions in her yoga pants when they showed her from behind. Never been a big fan of Lisa V.'s looks or her style, but I have to say-- she does a great job dressing in a way to highlight her assets and downplay her... less attractive attributes. That cat-- or should I say, that Pussy-- is out of the bag now, though...

 

No surprise that I still think her humor is quite un-funny. So, she has to-- I mean, has to-- tell us that, if she gets high, she'll end up "spread eagle on a pool table." Anyone remember that movie with Jodie Foster, based on a true story, where this woman was in a bar,  had a few too many,  and then was held down, spread eagle on a pool table, and gang raped while a crowd of men stood around cheering? Big news story back in the day, and I think Jodie might have gotten an AA for her performance in the movie based on the crime and the court case that followed.  So yeah, sure,  Lisa wasn't riffing on THAT. Nope. Not at all.  I mean, who would joke about something like that?  Who would be that horribly vulgar?  Who, indeed...

[Cheetosandchoc]

I also wanted to say that I think Yo's husbands foundation was a breath of fresh air. I think it's a great thougt that is very meaningful. I liked Kyles acknowledgement of how big it was. It may have something to do with his ego, but I think t is genuine too. Kudos for that Steven Foster. You have ever so slightly restored my faith in the uber wealthy.

Muhhomad, and Lisa I dare you to top it.

Lol I called him Steven instead of David. See how important he is?

[Avaleigh]

It's been done. Remember Hawaii? No one was talking about Kim and any addictions (they were all thinking it). Instead the fact that she caused nonstop drama by her rude behavior was what Kyle talked to her about.  She refused to engage in this discussion or take any ownership of her behavior. Lisa's original conversation in Paris about Kim started out being more about the way she was acting. Kim didn't appreciate being told she was behaving oddly. Lisa asked her is she had taken a sleeping pill as perhaps a reason why Kim was acting so strangely.  Kim lost her mind. Kim also lost her mind when Kyle told her she was out of line to tell Adrienne and Paul about the surrogacy comments Brandi had made at Mauricio's big Open House. Kim didn't like the fact that Kyle told her she had acted like an asshole. And the most glaring example in my mind is when Ken reminded Kim that she had been a big fat no-show at Pandora's wedding, never bothering to let anyone know her seat would sit vacant.  What did Kim do when faced with evidence of her assholeness? She blamed it on the fact that she was a drunk back then and couldn't possibly be held responsible for anything she might have done during that time. She is the one who tends to blame her bad acts on her addiction, so isn't it just easier at this point if folks start there in the first place?  

I know it is old news, but I really wish that someone would call her on this at the reunion, since not a single person ever has. Just remind her as she gets all butt hurt about how Lisar is supposedly trying to ruin Kim's life, that not so long ago she literally took a lie and sold it to us as the truth for an entire season. 

If I could +1 this a million times I would. 

 

I don't understand the idea that Kim hasn't had people tell her to her face that her behavior is not okay. The problem repeatedly is that Kim simply doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't want to listen to people when they have a problem with her. OTOH in Kim's mind it is okay for her to air her own grievances with people and talk about how she doesn't like certain behavior from various cast members. 

 

This makes me think of LisaV saying one time that even if she did have a problem or whatever with Kim that she'd "let it go shall we say." The implication here was that confronting Kim with anything whether it's on or off camera is just asking for trouble and most people don't find that out until they deal with her at least once. LisaR and Eileen know now that it isn't worth their time give a shit about Kim or what she's going through because Kim doesn't appreciate it and she's only going to give them grief over it. 

 

As far as the idea that Kyle is trying to paint herself as the saintly sister--I don't see it that way at all. We see Kyle admit that she isn't perfect and that she doesn't always know how to handle things. We see her admit that she can't always be available because she has a lot going on in her own life. She hasn't once tried to paint herself as a perfect sister to Kim or as someone who hasn't made mistakes. We've seen Kyle apologize to Kim, we've seen Kyle cover for Kim and come up with excuses, we've seen Kyle call Kim out, we've seen Kyle silently try to pretend that nothing is going on with Kim, we've seen Kyle be supportive of Kim, we've seen Kyle argue on Kim's behalf, we've seen the "tough" love approach with Kim (leaving her and Ken when they were late, when she tells her she's over her bullshit, fuck you, etc), we've seen Kyle cry for Kim, we've seen Kyle get upset with Kim, we've seen Kyle tease Kim--there's a wide range of things here. I know people think that Kyle is phony when it comes to Kim but most of what I see between the sisters comes across as very real. I'm not seeing where Kyle is trying to get people to buy into this sanctified image of herself when it comes to her relationship with Kim because there's negative stuff mixed in with the positive and it isn't like Kyle hasn't admitted to fault in the past. Kim on the other hand is a totally different story. When it comes to Kim, Kim sees herself as the good one who is frequently being wronged by others. 

 

It's easier to respond within the quote:

I'd love to just flip the wives, and then see how everyone would feel.

For example, if Kim or Brandi had told the story of being high and then spread eagled on the pool table.

For me it's different with Lisa because her schtick is usually about how she isn't having sex. She changes it up every now and then and makes risque jokes every season but it doesn't come across as overkill as it does with Brandi at least IMO. As for being high, Kim would never admit, and while Brandi can admit to drugging herself her stories typically make her sound silly and desperate. With Lisa it comes across as more of a joke. All this being said, Lisa has been in for criticism for her comments including this one.

If Kim or Brandi had cheated and taken a bike or a tour bus.

It wouldn't have bothered me. If anything that would have meant less of Kim complaining.

If Kim had misplaced her luggage and kept them waiting for an hour.

Kim is the one who has a history of repeatedly being late for ridiculous reasons so yeah I probably would roll my eyes if she were the one to keep the women waiting for an hour. Kim can thank herself for why I'm less willing to cut her slack for stuff like this. Kyle doesn't have a history of being late and making the women late so it's understandable that it wouldn't be treated like how it was when everyone was waiting for Kim and Ken so that they could leave for the catamaran. 

If Brandi or Kim had refused to drink the milkshake because it was chocolate, or if Brandi had said "EWWWW I don't want to share KYLE's straw!"

It wasn't a nice thing to say but I have to admit that I know that I personally wouldn't want to share a straw with Brandi so I guess I can't get too worked up over this one especially when I consider the fact that Brandi has it coming when I consider even a quarter of the rude things she's said to the women since she's been on the show.

If Kim or Brandi had refused to do the last clue and simply pushed their way into the restaurant?

I wouldn't have been mad at Kyle for doing that if the last spot had been her store. I wouldn't have been mad at Eileen for doing that if the last stop had been CBS. It was just a game. Should I really take one of the women to task for using something they've rightfully earned to gain an advantage for a scavenger hunt? It just doesn't come across as particularly offensive to me. If the last stop had been wherever Brandi records her podcast and she'd shoved in I'd have been fine with that too although I would have rolled my eyes if she'd made a snotty comment as she was passing whoever it was that she had to go around as she'd be likely to do.

If Kim or Brandi had jumped on stage, rubbed their crotch, and full mouth kissed the singer?  Then continued to dance on stage while he performed?  (I remember Kyle's fake-shock, disapproval of Camille for kissing her male friend, because "SHE IS MARRIED!" gasp.)

Brandi comes across as desperate on a regular basis so I think that has an influence on the perception of spontaneous moments like these. If Brandi had done that I probably would have cringed. I did wince a bit with Kyle, I admit, but since Kyle doesn't have the same desperate factor going for her that Brandi does (IMO anyway) I think that makes all the difference. Also, wrt the Camille kissing incident--even Camille was embarrassed over that one. It was a pretty different situation than the one where two celebrities (however minor a celeb Kyle is) were having fun onstage for a charity event. (I don't have strong feelings about the Camille thing btw just to be clear. Water under the bridge and all that.)

If Brandi had said "fuck this!  I hate this!" during the treasure hunt?

I think this is rude and I'd feel the same with Brandi. Kim was still the worst though in terms of the scavenger hunt.

 

I'm not seeing where Kim or Brandi are getting a raw deal when it comes to the impressions of the viewers.

 

[rho]

It's probably a combination of all three but I think her primary motivation is having Bravo ask her back for next season.

This is in no way a defense of Kim's behavior but I felt that LisaR really started the whole thing. First she asked Kim if she was OK and when Kim did not respond pushed her again by asking Kim if she was mad at her. If LisaR had kept to herself or chatted with someone else, that ugly scene wouldn't have happened on the plane. It was destined to happen (thanks to Brandi) but it didn't have to happen at that moment in time. Chances are Bravo made it happen because otherwise, Kyle should have told them both that they were making her uncomfortable and not just Kim.

 

My thoughts exactly. Didn't this whole thing start because LisaR was concerned about Brandi's behavior? How did it suddenly turn into an intervention for Kim? Any sane person knows not to try to approach her about her sobriety or lack thereof. There is video evidence from every season to support that Kim doesn't like having her sobriety questioned on camera (and probably off camera too). I think LisaR is just fishing for a project.