S01.E10: Revenge Of The Rogues

[Wildcard]

One thing I didn't expect (but really liked) in this episode was seeing Jason Rusch. Was that a one time appearance or will he be in the episodes when Ronnie Raymond and Martin Stein appear?

 

Also, did anyone get the last name of the couple who bought the painting? Were they the

Pied Piper's parents

?

[miracole]

Iris really did have the biggest umbrella in the world...in no rain...

 

I Like how they're dealing with Iris and Barry for now.  She's been with Eddie for a year, to have her suddenly throw him over would make her a flake.  I want them to have her genuinely work to make a go of it with Eddie(for it not to workout for whatever reason) but to eventually fall romantically in love with Barry. I'd also like for Barry to genuinely try to move on but to eventually realizes he's still in love with Iris. Barry and Iris will always be in each others orbit so while I think it will take time for her to shift her thinking in regards to him she'll have the opportunity to. But they better have her eventually shift her thinking.

 

 

 

[SimoneS]

If a girl is making googly eyes at someone while sitting on another man's lap, she's in a love triangle. 

 

I agree. Barry/Iris/Eddie are definitely in a love triangle. It is just that it is an entertaining, well written, and acted love triangle.

[In2You]

The dialogue was horrible last night. 

 

The Flash should only fight Metahumans. He should've easily been able to speed grabs those guns right out of their hands and end that fight in 2 minutes. The big fight scene was just complicated and contrived for no reason.

 

Danielle Panabaker really hasn't improved in her acting since her Disney days. Like she was just cringe worthy at times in this episode. I'm tired of her wooden acting and I just cant buy her as this brilliant scientist.  

 

The only good thing about the episode was Barry speed moving back in with Joe.

[Atony]

The Flash should only fight Metahumans. He should've easily been able to speed grabs those guns right out of their hands and end that fight in 2 minutes. The big fight scene was just complicated and contrived for no reason.

 

If Flash always used his superspeed at 100% logical efficiency...he never would have worked as a character.  It's just kind of one of those things about him that you have to accept, it's been true the entire publication history of the character.

 

Flash on this show only tops out at a couple hundred miles an hour.  The problem is they have him move too fast in more of the jokey situations.  He can have an entire conversation with Iris without her noticing, he can run to his apartment, pack and get back to Joe's in a couple seconds.  Yet he is not actually supposedly that fast.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Atony

[KirkB]

Flash on this show only tops out at a couple hundred miles an hour.

 

 

Not exactly. In the episode where he fights the guy who turns to metal he showed he can run at the speed of sound (he doesn't most of the time because sonic booms are not good for cities), and has been training to go even faster than that since Reverse Flash showed up. We also don't know how far his apartment is from Joe's house. Unless it's more than a hundred miles, which seems unlikely, he could easily rush home at three or four hundred mph, pack and run back in a few seconds. I will admit his speed is written somewhat inconsistently, but that is the nature of super speed. There wouldn't be much of a show if Cold and HW showed up and Barry took their guns away and threw them in jail in the first thirty seconds of the episode.

[saber5055]

This episode reminded me why I was fully and totally in love with Wentworth Miller. Loved his delivery on everything: "Car trouble?" to Caitlyn. It was good to see Dom have an acting job again, too. Cold's cool head was entertaining to the max.

 

Joe acted like Iris was moving to Europe or something instead of just down the street. Apron strings, anyone? Geesh.

 

Barry is the perfect man if he can clean a house and pack to move that quickly. With no nagging!

 

Loved that Barry wanted pizzaS. Also loved the Barry/Joe scenes at the end. That living arrangement is going to work well.

 

Wells made me laugh when he talked about "catching cold" then said, yes, he heard it as soon as it came out of his mouth. Good writing that.

[bluebonnet]

 

Joe acted like Iris was moving to Europe or something instead of just down the street. Apron strings, anyone? Geesh.

 

I thought that was pretty realistic.  Moving out, even just down the street, is a pretty huge deal for parents.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

Leonard and Mick were great! I didn't get why the multi-million dollar painting was torched by Mick, since he was all about the cash and quick pay-off. 

 

 

The scene was meant to show that he has bought into Cold's way of thinking: mere money is no longer an end in and of itself to him. Getting to be one of the kings of Central City is far more important.

 

Atony, I agree with your overall point that we have to suspend disbelief about the Flash's speed, because if he used it with even a bit of logic, he could just grab the guns, throw something at Cold/Heat Wave, or deal with them in a gazillion ways.

 

But the show has explicitly referenced Flash being able to go both at the supersonic speed to punch out Girder and I believe it said he had to go 700+ mph to run up the side of a building and a given speed to run on water, both of which we've seen him do. So the top speed he's shown is more than 700+ mph.

Overall, I enjoyed it. Some observations/nitpicks:

How did Cold manage to a) figure out that one of Flash's helpers was Caitlin and b) where she happened to be at that particular time? I guess I can handwave that she was at least semi-famous thanks to her role in creating the accelerator, but tracking her down at a place where she had no real connection seems a stretch.

I also think this lends a little credence to Barry/Joe paranoia about what happens if someone finds out there's a connection between Iris and Flash. (Not of course that it excuses it, or that Iris would not be better off to know that bad guys might be coming after her, Joe or Barry because of his Flashiness, and that at least one has explicitly threatened her.)

Although I generally like Barry/Joe scenes including the ones in this ep, I think it's a bad thing for Barry to be moving back in with him. I realize as people have said above, it makes things easier from a writing/filming standpoint (I dunno if we've even seen Barry's apartment for more than one or two scenes -- I remember him getting dressed at super-speed in one). But characterwise, I don't like it.

[Oscirus]

How did Cold manage to a) figure out that one of Flash's helpers was Caitlin

 

She was with Cisco when they tricked him with that vacuum/fake gun in his first episode.

 

I kind of give the show a pass on Joe/Barry Joe/Iris screen time. Barry is the star of the show. It makes sense for his story to be centralized. I also think we would be complaining about the reverse if she did get more screen time.

 

Quentin's able to be Laurel's father on The Arrow without devoting that much screen time to their relationship, I don't see why that can't happen here.

 

 

I think my ultimate problem with the way that the final fight happened is the pure laziness of it.  His first battle against Cold was fairly convincing, this one was just silly and the solution was overly complicated.

I can ignore the lack of snipers since there was probably no time to set them up. But even with that, how did the police get there fast enough to set up  barriers?

[Trini]

But even with that, how did the police get there fast enough to set up  barriers?

 

Capt. Cold, in the video, laid out exactly when and where to meet. Apparently at least an hour beforehand.

[glitterpants]

Barry must spend a fortune on food. I hope Starlabs pays for that.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I realize that Cold has seen Caitlin before. What I was questioning is how he managed to turn his minute of interaction with her into the knowledge that she was Caitlin Snow. Facial recognition software? Study of Star Labs personnel since that is where he got the gun from? Or what? 

 

There was definitely time to set up snipers, as Cold/Heat Wave gave Flash an ultimatum to meet at a certain location at noon. That would give enough time to clear the area, put up blocks and snipe the hell out of them,if they wanted to.

[Oscirus]

Ok then yes, I have no explanation for the lack of snipers.  Captain Cold/the writers apparently didn't think that one out too well.

 

As for the Caitlin thing, I'll just assume that they ran across her by mistake while they happened to be getting coffee and they recognized her.

[88Keys]

I really like this show, but Barry has no instincts at all for how to use his speed powers.  What was with all the "crossing the streams" stuff?  I'm no brilliant scientist like half the characters on this show, but here's how I would have handled it:

 

Plan A: The Flash runs up to the bad guys at super speed and snatches their guns out of their hands.  The police stroll over and arrest them.

 

 

 

 

 

YES, THIS.  Good grief.  I was kind of yelling at the TV the whole time.  A bad guy who is totally dependent on a weapon is not really that great of a threat.

 

I like this show, I really do.  It's a lot of fun, and I know better than to take it too seriously.  But I thought this episode was kind of lame.  The Cold and Hot guys were really cheesy, and all the angst over how to stop them seemed unecessary.  Just take away their weapons.  I mean, even the cops probably could have shot the guns out of their hands, or could have brought in a trained sniper to do so. 

 

Also, they said clearly where Caitlyn was, but then told The Flash not to show up until 6pm or whenever it was.  Why didn't he just rush over the early and grab her away from them? 

 

I can deal with plot holes, but these were, well, really really big and obvious, at least to me.  The character moments were pretty good- in fact, I think Cisco was my favorite thing about this ep.

Although I generally like Barry/Joe scenes including the ones in this ep, I think it's a bad thing for Barry to be moving back in with him. I realize as people have said above, it makes things easier from a writing/filming standpoint (I dunno if we've even seen Barry's apartment for more than one or two scenes -- I remember him getting dressed at super-speed in one). But characterwise, I don't like it.

 

This, too.  I like Barry and Joe's relationship, but I really don't see the point of Barry moving back in.  I think they alluded to it being so that people won't realize Barry is The Flash because he comes barrelling in and out of the apartment at all hours, but I'm not buying it.  How is it any better when he comes speeding out of Joe's house?

[Primetimer]

Captain Cold and Heat Wave return to take down our hero. Cue the Odd Couple theme song!

Read the story

[silversauce]

Joe and Barry really are the best things this show has to offer. They play off of each other so well.

 

The Captain Cold/Heat-wave team was also good, although I can't help but wonder why Barry didn't just run up to them and steal their weapons in the blink of an eye instead of trying to make their waves cross.

 

Jason Rush seems promising... I like him.

 

Barry if you can see the future, then you should know that you and Iris are going to be more than friends. [ Eventually ;) ] So sad how he's been thoroughly friend-zoned for now, though. I mean, a fist bump, really? I don't like how Iris is acting so awkward but still trying to pretend nothing has changed. I really want to know more about what she's thinking and feeling, but she just keeps giving her vapid smiles... come on writers, give her some more depth.

Edited January 21, 2015 by silversauce

[Shanna]

Quentin's able to be Laurel's father on The Arrow without devoting that much screen time to their relationship, I don't see why that can't happen here.?

But their relationship has gotten screen time. I think the complaint is that Barry's and joes relationship gets more time. Aside from this being Barry's show, they also work together in the capers of the week, and because Barry is part of their family, he also ends up in a lot of those family time scenes. So it would be almost impossible for them not to get more time unless we turned this into a show about iris or changed the family situation. Arrow isn't in the same boat, but Quentin and Oliver still share lots of scenes.

Caitlin is a prominent star labs employee, not jus a worker bee. I suspect she was all over the news before and after the disaster, at the very least standing next to wells. So they could easily know who she was after having met her. As far as knowing where she was at that second, I figured they stalked her a little.

[SimoneS]

Barry if you can see the future, then you should know that you and Iris are going to be more than friends. [ Eventually ;) ] So sad how he's been thoroughly friend-zoned for now, though. I mean, a fist bump, really? I don't like how Iris is acting so awkward but still trying to pretend nothing has changed. I really want to know more about what she's thinking and feeling, but she just keeps giving her vapid smiles... come on writers, give her some more depth.

 

I completely agree about Iris. I want to know what she is thinking. Surely, she is conflicted about Barry's declaration of love. She could confide in Caitlin. I suspect that the writers are stalling. They are attempting to solidify Iris and Eddie's relationship before they ramp up her emotional entanglement with The Flash and/or Barry.

[XtremeOne1]

Man, the writing for women in this was terrible.

 

Caitlin in particular in this episode was around to:
1) Say, "But that's dangerous! What if he gets hurt!"
2) Dole out relationship advice
3) Get kidnapped.

 

I love the science aspect but in the beginning Caitlin was much tougher, more distant and just felt more interesting...It made her a much more interesting character than a Felicity Clone who's much more damsel-y and a total buzzkill.

Meanwhile Cisco gets told what a hero he is.

 

Iris is there to be:

1) A Love interest
2) Have men talk about her where she's less of a person and more of an object to be won or protected(including her own father)
3) Put told to stay back because "DANGER!"
4) Have secrets kept from because, "DANGER!"

 

The other females who had major role are
1) Dead Mom!
2) Dead Metahuman who got creepily hit on by Cisco

 

I don't think the Arrow writers are that great on writing women either(Felicity is okay with being stalked, Laurel is all over the place, Sara sleeps with her sister's ex, Moira dies, Thea dates terrible DJs and wooden guys in red hoodies) but Flash just seems worse.

 

And they showed their potential to not being terrible. Iris' journalism, Caitlin in the beginning...but lately it's go this terrible backwards,

 

Like someone mentioned above, why can't we get some of Iris' thoughts on her relationship with Barry? Or her thoughts about how her dad treats her like some fragile child? She's a good character when we see the journalism side of her because we're seeing the character as a fully formed human, but the other 80% she's never more than the girl Barry likes and the daughter of Joe. This is Iris effing West. In the comics, she's a giant deal and pretty much Flash's equal. To do that, they need to let her be a character.

[Latverian Diplomat]

The only good thing about the crossing steams idea was the Ghostbusters reference, and Wells adding "and really very funny" to Cisco's antics. 

The tvtropes name for that is "hanging a lampshade on it" -- and this was a good example of using that trope effectively.

 

While I enjoyed the science shout out to the Planck temperature, it's insanely hot. It's a about a million billion billion times hotter than the core of the sun. And arguably, it's not so much a maximum per se as the maximum we can describe with our current physics.

 

In addition to the bomb under Caitlin's chair being conveniently small, the fuse between the trip wire and the bomb was very slow. I'm going to fan wank that by saying that Heat Wave always uses a slow fuse to give himself gloat and taunt time before the bomb goes off.

 

As much fun as Miller and Purcell are having, who wouldn't want to guest as a villain on this show. 

[twoods]

I didn't think Caitlin was too damsely- she did tell Barry not to come and save her instead of shriek helplessly.

Joe and Barry continue to rock- they last scene was fantastic. I just love all the relationships between the character- it makes this show stronger than most.

Captain Cold- yum. Sorry I never gave Prison Break a chance. Intrigued by his bad ass sister.

I love Eddie, but Barry and Iris are so cute.

[Trini]

 

Captain Cold- yum. Sorry I never gave Prison Break a chance.

It's worth it to check out Season 1, at least, in which his character's tattooed, shirtless torso is a major plot device.

[phoenics]

Ok then yes, I have no explanation for the lack of snipers.  Captain Cold/the writers apparently didn't think that one out too well.

 

As for the Caitlin thing, I'll just assume that they ran across her by mistake while they happened to be getting coffee and they recognized her.

 

I thought for a minute that it was because that's where Iris works - she does have that blog with her name on it so she wouldn't be hard to track down...  I thought maybe they were looking for Iris, but then saw Caitlin and thought, "she'll do!"...

 

BUT they specifically mentioned grabbing one of The Flash's science friends or something like that, so that's out... 

[silversauce]

I didn't think Caitlin was too damsely- she did tell Barry not to come and save her instead of shriek helplessly.

Joe and Barry continue to rock- they last scene was fantastic. I just love all the relationships between the character- it makes this show stronger than most.

Captain Cold- yum. Sorry I never gave Prison Break a chance. Intrigued by his bad ass sister.

I love Eddie, but Barry and Iris are so cute.

I didn't think of Caitlin as exactly a damsel in this episode either. Her being kidnapped made sense as she was out in the open after speaking with Jason. Her spat with Heat-wave was the most interesting she's been, for me. But she's still missing something...

 

I may or may not go watch the pilot of Prison Break now. x)

 

Man, the writing for women in this was terrible...

Iris and Caitlin definitely need help in the characterization department. I'm still waiting on Cait to become Killer Frost...! I wouldn't mind if she went evil, at least temporarily.

Edited January 21, 2015 by silversauce

[XtremeOne1]

I didn't think Caitlin was too damsely- she did tell Barry not to come and save her instead of shriek helplessly.

 

 

To be fair so did Rachel in the Dark Knight, it didn't make her any less of a damsel. 

 

I just they wouldn't treat the female characters so patronizingly(this mostly implies to Iris) and have Caitlin develop the personality she had before the decided, "Oh dear, she's slightly combative, can't have that in a woman can we, not unless she's worrying about our hero."

Edited January 22, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Shanna]

I just they wouldn't treat the female characters so patronizingly(this mostly implies to Iris) and have Caitlin develop the personality she had before the decided, "Oh dear, she's slightly combative, can't have that in a woman can we, not unless she's worrying about our hero."

I don't think they've revamped her to be too damsely just because she got kidnapped once. That is pretty much par for the course on these shows. I am still enjoying her and I think she showed a lot of fire in her scenes with Dom.

Iris could definitely use some more fleshing out, but I kind of hate that she is a journalist so I'm no really interested in more of that, I'm not a shipper and I don't like her swooning over the flash so I'm not interested in that... Best thing to do would be to bring her in on the secret but i bet they'll keep that in their back pockets for a while.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Also, did anyone get the last name of the couple who bought the painting? Were they the

Pied Piper's parents

?

Yeah, they were

the Rathaways

, and their son is most likely

Hartley, aka The Peid Piper, who's apparently gonna turn up next week

. :)

[Trini]

So who's bankrolling STAR Labs anyway? Paying for equipment, utilities, salaries for Caitlyn and Cisco? I'm assuming they lost a good bit of funding since the Accident, yet they have drones they can afford to blow up.

 

The West vs. Wells tension is back!

 

It was nice to see Cisco interacting with other characters. And I liked that this episode highlighted the Cisco/Caitlyn friendship again. Speaking of Caitlyn, even while she was "damselled", she's still driving the Firestorm storyline forward.

 

So is it Cisco's turn to be damselled next time?

 

The scene with Iris at the fight is even more dumb because there was no lead-up OR follow-up to her being there. She just shows up to be the Worrying Girlfriend for NO reason. Come on, show; I like Iris and she's not irredeemable yet (O hi, Gotham's Barbara), you can do better. For instance, we STILL haven't heard what she thinks/feels about Barry's revelation. NO, furtive glances at Barry don't count.

 

I'm glad Capt. Cold is going to be recurring; Wentworth Miller is killing it in this role.

 

So finally The Flash and the CCPD are on their way to working together. But let's see how they feel when that STAR Labs metahuman prison is discovered.

[MaryMitch]

Ok, with all the plot holes and a superhero and all that, why is it that the only thing that really bugs me that they were transporting a multi-million dollar painting without any kind of crating - or even bubble wrap?

[benteen]

I didn't think Caitlyn was too damsely either.  She's not trained for combat so her chances of getting away from Cold and Heat Wave was slim to none.  She didn't want Barry to risk himself coming after her.  And it's just a general TV trope for the people the hero cares about to be kidnapped, both men and women.  Now if this become a regular thing with Caitlyn, then yeah, there's an argument to be made.

[Oscirus]

But their relationship has gotten screen time.

 

I guess one serious discussion in ten episodes technically counts as screen time. Sorry but could Joe be anymore of an absentee dad?

 

I just they wouldn't treat the female characters so patronizingly(this mostly implies to Iris) and have Caitlin develop the personality she had before the decided, "Oh dear, she's slightly combative, can't have that in a woman can we, not unless she's worrying about our hero."

 

 

Unfortunately it looks like these writers are stuck with the "A team" mentality towards women. ( Action good, women useless just stand over there and look pretty).

 

 

[Minneapple]

I really like this show, but Barry has no instincts at all for how to use his speed powers.  What was with all the "crossing the streams" stuff?  I'm no brilliant scientist like half the characters on this show, but here's how I would have handled it:

 

Plan A: The Flash runs up to the bad guys at super speed and snatches their guns out of their hands.  The police stroll over and arrest them.

 

My version: The Flash runs behind them, whacks them on their heads and knocks them out cold. The police stroll over and arrest them.

I'm reminded of the time I saw the Harry Potter Goblet of Fire movie with a friend who hadn't read the books. After the movie, she asked me, "why didn't he just summon the egg instead of summoning the broom and going through all that nonsense with the dragon?"

[Macktor]

Yeah, they were

the Rathaways

, and their son is most likely

Hartley, aka The Peid Piper, who's apparently gonna turn up next week

. :)

 

Definitely! The son's name was mentioned, as well as his father saying

"I have no son", presumably because he's gay (as in the comics) and Singh's significant other.

. Looking forward to seeing him!

[Jordan27]

 

 

Outside of Eddie, how useless were the cops in this one.  Haven't they ever heard of a sniper?                                                                            

Totally agree.  The cops reminded of the one's in the old Batman series.  Hey, there's a guy running around with a question mark on his shirt and three henchmen.  Call Batman!  We can't handle it.

 

Hot guy and cold guy weren't impervious to bullets, were they?  I didn't get it.

 

And the new cliché I keep seeing on TV.  How come when someone gets captured they are always resisting and squirming when they aren't going anywhere and it's usually a girl with a much stronger guy holding her.  They did it here with Caitlin.

 

And did she really tell the baddies that she didn't care what they did to her, but don't hurt Barry.  The old cliché of emotionally telling bad guys what to do.  It always works.

 

And I didn't buy the bad guys would be as much trouble as this ep made it to be.

 

And the silly shields that protected the cops, but not the bottom of their legs, yet the bad guys shot directly at them.  Too funny.

 

Iris is adorable to look at, but I don't see any chemistry between her and Eddie.  Barry and her have good chemistry, but it's hard to see them as a romantic couple.  She just seems so much older.

 

I didn't really care for this ep and thought it was one of their weakest.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Jordan27

[chelsie]

CC adopting the nickname Cisco gave him made me smile.

 

I'm a little confused to where CC and Heatwave can go from here; from what I understand, they are not metahumans and they stole the weapons (which are now back with star labs). They also have no money as they stupidly set fire to the $20 mil painting (which would have went for crazy dough on the black market). They are essentially as threatening as a knife without a blade.

 

Was it that hard to get a plastic/rubber dummy, instead of an officer, to hold the sheild so that Cisco could test his ice raygun? I'm pretty sure there precinct has a forensic lab  from where they could borrow. It was awfully dangerous to shoot a lethal gun at a police officer holding an unproven sheild.

Edited January 22, 2015 by chelsie

[sking24450]

Was it that hard to get a plastic/rubber dummy, instead of an officer, to hold the sheild so that Cisco could test his ice raygun? I'm pretty sure there precinct has a forensic lab  from where they could borrow. It was awfully dangerous to shoot a lethal gun at a police officer holding an unproven sheild.

 

I think it was a dummy holding up the shield in the station.  The captain makes a remark to Cisco about how it'll be different when real police officers have to be protected instead of a dummy.

[chelsie]

I could have sworn the sheild lowered tho. Ah well, I was tired when I was watching.

[Enero]

I'm more interested in learning why she was carrying that silly assed umbrella.

In her defense the umbrella was wet so perhaps it was raining near her car. Lol. The umbrella was humongous though. If you notice she nearly knocked a cop over with it when she ran on the scene. Lol

Totally agree with others, I need to see what Iris is thinking about Barry's confession. Surely a young lady who has a "three list" something that Barry knew nothing about, has girlfriends. Because she would not discuss something like that even with her best guy friend (as evidenced by Barry's obliviousness). It would be nice to see her confiding in someone. If not Joe, perhaps the girl she works with at the coffee shop who we briefly saw in 1x5 asking her about her "shadow" eta. Barry.

Did anyone think it was weird that when Joe gave Barry and Iris a moment to talk he just went a couple of feet away to the couch. I know he knew what was up but he could've at least left the room and given them some privacy.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Enero

[driedfruit]

And the new cliché I keep seeing on TV.  How come when someone gets captured they are always resisting and squirming when they aren't going anywhere and it's usually a girl with a much stronger guy holding her.  They did it here with Caitlin.

 

You'd think they'd conserve their energy for when they'll need it, in case they'll ever get a half-chance at escaping. Or even just act subdued to lull the bad guy into thinking they'd been tamed so they might lessen their restraints or take chances and slip up.  

 

The cops could've used snipers, or even the Troy shield shell formation to attack. 

 

I've never been more jealous of Barry's powers than when he did the speed reading.

Edited January 22, 2015 by driedfruit

[Trini]

Wait, so now another Flash suit has been destroyed. I hope Cisco has been working on a few more.

[KirkB]

Cold and HW in the comics are a major threat mostly because comics cops not named Gordon are generally too incompetent to be much use with some other guy in a funny costume around to help. These cops are better off, because Joe and Eddie at least seem pretty good at their job. They are vulnerable because they were at least inconvenienced by the fact one of the cops damaged the heat gun with a bullet. As for why they didn't have snipers or unload on the thermodynamic duo with lots and lots of bullets, it's the same reason Barry doesn't zip in and take their toys away. No show. HW also made a point of Cold insisting the two of them learn everything they can about the weapons, which is how he was able to repair it, which tells me they may be able to make (or have made) their own versions since Star Labs took the originals back. 

[bettername2come]

Wait, so now another Flash suit has been destroyed. I hope Cisco has been working on a few more.

That was the scene I wanted at the end - Cisco pissed off at another suit being destroyed.

[MarkHB]

I loved that this ep seriously veered towards the Bronze Age / 70's-early 80's Flash comics: the main goal of the Rogues wasn't so much perpetrating any particular crimes as it was simply defeating the Flash, almost like a game.  Great to see Snart's sister show up; I was psyched when he briefly mentioned her in his original appearance, and I'm looking forward to seeing her for real.

[FishyJoe]

I think they really should have come up with something better than heat and cold guns. It should be no problem for the Flash just to run by them and grab the gun or throw rocks at the gun. And why didn't the cops just shoot at the bad guys with real guns?

 

I really hope Cold's sister is Gretchen!

[Terrafamilia]

I swear, Miller was channeling Agent Smith.

 

I do have a question. IIRC the cold gun operates with some sort of special cryogenic fluid that it squirts out. Unless every shot only requires a miniscule amount you'd think it would be running on empty by now. Maybe the stuff is fairly easy to procure (then why aren't there more people running around with cold guns?).

[MarkHB]

I think they really should have come up with something better than heat and cold guns. It should be no problem for the Flash just to run by them and grab the gun or throw rocks at the gun. And why didn't the cops just shoot at the bad guys with real guns?

 

I really hope Cold's sister is Gretchen!

Gretchen?

 

Her name's Lisa, she becomes the super-villainess Golden Glider in the comics, and she's going to be played by Peyton List.

[Jordan27]

As for why they didn't have snipers or unload on the thermodynamic duo with lots and lots of bullets, it's the same reason Barry doesn't zip in and take their toys away. No show.                                                                                                                           

Well, that's a product of bad writing.  It's just as important to write good villians that are a challenge as it is to write heroes that are capable.

 

Buffy did a great job with this, but this ep the villians were lame and too smug considering all they had were guns. 

[Ottis]

Worst. Episode. Ever.

 

Is there a reason that the 50 cops on the scene didn't just shoot Cold and Fire while their backs were turned battling Flash? What did I miss? And as someone mentioned, Flash should have been able to disarm them before they even saw him.

 

The fatal flaw with Cold and Fire is that they are not meta-humans. No guns, no powers. So they are no real threat to Flash. At least, not when the world operates logically.

 

And the dialogue in this one sunk to so many cliches. I really like this series, and how it can be fun at times, but this episode was full on silly and worse than previous eps. Did they have a new writer or something?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ottis

[MarkHB]

According to the CW site, the writer credit for the ep is Geoff Johns & Kai Yu Wu, who from her Twitter is definitely part of the writers' room.  My hunch is that, for episodes like this that reflect the history of the character, they're going to be willing to go full-on comic book and let the viewers decide whether they're going to embrace the goofy or not.  (Note that Kai Wu, in one of her tweets, noted a Flash comic featuring both Cold and Heat Wave that was in fact written by Geoff Johns; that may or may not be the source of his writing credit depending on how closely this ep matched that story.)