S05.E01: Episode One

[StatMom]

I'm a little confused by the timeline. The little kids have obviously done some growing up, but (as an earlier poster mentioned) some of the storylines seem to be right where we left off. So it's supposed to be 1924 now, and when did Matthew die? And when did Edith's guy disappear in Germany? And did we ever get confirmation of what happened with him, or has it just been long enough that it's obvious he is GONE gone? 

[RetailTherapy]

Yay!  Downton is back!

 

Ms. Bunting can go away at any point.  Tom just looks uncomfortable around her and she doesn't really bring anything of interest to the storyline.  Rose can go away next.  She's annoying. 

 

The kids age bit bothers me a little also.  Sybbie is the oldest, yet she and George appear to be the same age, with Marigold not far behind.  I think Marigold lived in Switzerland for a while, so I can see how she'd come to live with the Drewes a little older than an infant.  But that should mean Sybbie and George would be older than what they appear to be on the show.

 

Poor Edith.  Does the girl ever get a minute of happiness?  She's been sad-sacking around for over a decade now.  Even her brief dalliance with Gregson was tainted with the notion that there was something sneaky and creepy about him.  Did we ever find out why he was in Germany?  If it was pre-1924, then it was a bit too early for there to be some Nazi-esqe plot, so what was he up to?

 

Count me into the group who thinks Tony Gillingham is hot.  Count me also into the group that is confused as to what he sees in Mary.  While she's an attractive girl in real life, she's not the raving beauty that the show is desperately trying to imply.  Is it because she's  assumed to be "rich" by some of these suitors? The reality is that they are hanging onto the estate by little more than a thread, so it's not like they're a family using stacks of hundreds to light the fireplaces.  And even if money were no object, it's not like new husband would inherit the house.  That already is going to George. 

[Athena]

Is he the father of that douche that spiked Tom's drink a few seasons back?

 

Yes, Lord Merton is father of Grey who spiked Tom's drink. Merton is also Mary's godfather.

 

I know this is kind of weird, but I'm going to miss Jimmy.  I know he was useless....

 

Real talk? I find Gillingham to be strangely attractive.  Mary needs to take him up on his offer and get down on it. That being said, she probably shouldn't marry him.  There is something about that guy that I just don't trust.  He also comes on kind of strong, knowing that Mary isn't in 100%. 

 

I wondered why they would off Jimmy. I guess he was more useless than most of this other cast. Not bad eye candy for us or Thomas though.

 

The actor Tom Cullen who plays Gillingham is attractive, but Gillingham himself comes off way too strong and has since Day One. 

[molshoop]

 

Did we ever find out why he was in Germany?  If it was pre-1924, then it was a bit too early for there to be some Nazi-esqe plot, so what was he up to?

 

     I'd like to know what happened to him too.  The group that would eventually become the Nazis started in about 1919.

 

[Kat From Jersey]

Was the lady who wanted to bang Jimmy the original Duckface?

 

I shouted "Duckface!!!!!" at the TV!  Anna Chancellor always seems to play the same type of character!  She was great here, though, and so very floozy-ish.  I also noticed Harriet Walter as the widow Violet randomly invited to tea; she was the horrible Fanny Dashwood in the Emma Thompson version of Sense & Sensibility.

[ZoloftBlob]

The little kids have obviously done some growing up, but (as an earlier poster mentioned) some of the storylines seem to be right where we left off. So it's supposed to be 1924 now, and when did Matthew die? And when did Edith's guy disappear in Germany?

 

Matthew dies in sept 1921. So Sybbie looking three and a half and George looking three works for 1924 - although the idea that Tony and Charles have been circling Mary for 2 and half years is ridiculous. Edith and Gregson had sex in April 1922, and he goes missing and she's discovering she's pregnant in June 1922. So Greggson disappears far too early to have been accosted by any formal Nazis (although there were a lot of groups running around Germany at the time) and Marigold is a bit too old looking for born in late 1922, early 1923.

[JudyObscure]

Mary's utter contempt for all things Edith will forever be my favorite part of this show. Even Jan Brady never managed to set the family house on fire with her Debbie Downerness.

 

And yet, it was Mary who remained in her room staring at her fire for six months after Matthew died, while Edith got up for breakfast the day after she "lost," Anthony.  For me, the ultimate, laughable, Debbie Downer moment was at about that same time when Mary passed Edith coming up the stairs with a Valentine and had to make a "No Valentines for me," grumble.   They've both loved and lost and had very bad luck, but at least Edith isn't still acting like a teenager with  constant snide remarks the way Mary does.  She had something petty to say to Edith on Edith's wedding day, at their sister's death bed and now at a moment when Edith had almost burned to death.  The oddest thing is that, as the favorite with their parents, the servants, and, apparently, all the men in England, Mary ought to have a 'grace in victory' attitude with Edith.

 

I'm over Violet, too. Well, I was over her long ago when she helped discourage Sir Anthony into jilting Edith and after she was so  rude to Cora's mother.  She has been the ever present, interfering mother-in-law all of Cora's married life, so it took some nerve to keep asking Cora's mother when she would be leaving during her rare visit.  Violet was funny when she was being snarky about swivel chairs and electric lights but when she turned it on people it lost something.

 

This should be my favorite show.  I love the period, the upstairs/downstairs concept, the sets, the wardrobe, the dog and Downton itself but if the writing doesn't pick-up it's just going to be a weekly disappointment.

[Constantinople]

Overall, I'm a bit put off by how boring all the stories are right now.  There is nothing that we haven't seen before and I wish something new would happen.

We must be watching two different shows

Season One: Thomas helps a dark haired gentlemen sneak uninvited into Lady Mary's room

Season Five: Thomas watches a dark haired gentlemen sneak uninvited into Lady Mary's room

Season One: It turns out Lord G's valet did time for theft

This episode: It turns out Lady G's lady's maid did time for theft

Season Two/Three: People are suspicious that Bates killed someone in London using poison

This episode (and Season Four): People are suspicious that Bates killed someone in London using a speeding truck

Season One: The first footman had an affair with one of Lord G's male guests

This episode (and Season Four, I think): The first footman had an affair with one of Lord G's female guests

Season One: A strapped for cash duke didn't bring his own valet

This episode: A strapped for cash viscount didn't bring his own valet

Season Two: Two female middle class concert guests rudely point out that not all abled bodied men are serving during the war

This episode: A female middle class dinner guest rudely points out that the war was a waste

Season Two: Mrs. Drake, a farmer's wife, is concerned that Lady Edith is acting innapropriately around her husband

This episode: Mrs. Drewe, a farmer's wife, is concerned that Lady Edith is acting innapropriately around her husband

Season One: A chamber maid is secretly trying to improve her typing skills

This episode: A kitchen maid is secretly trying to improve her accouting skills

[MaryHedwig]

Marigold is a bit too old looking for born in late 1922, early 1923.

Alas, Marigold is suffering from rapid age syndrome, a malady more commonly seen in American soap operas.

[LaChavalina]

     I'd like to know what happened to him too.  The group that would eventually become the Nazis started in about 1919.

If I recall correctly, they found out at the end of last season that he got into a bar fight with some proto-Nazis and it was strongly implied that he'd been killed. Sad to see that Edith also appears to have lost any semblance of the personality she was gaining last season. What ever happened to her newspaper columnist gig? Did she quit when she took her nine-month hiatus?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Yes, Lord Merton is father of Grey who spiked Tom's drink. Merton is also Mary's godfather.

 

 

 

 

        Thanks!

[Andorra]

About the age of the children:

 

Sybbie was born June 1920. She's almost 4 when series 5 starts

George was born September 1921. He's not yet 3

Marigold was born in December/January 1923. So she's about 15 or 16 months old.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode, and have watched all of the seasons.  But I'm not a Downton fanatic that repeatedly watches all of the episodes on DVD and can recite lines and plots.  Personally I would have appreciated a bit more of a recap than what the previouslies had shown.  Or at least find a way to work some more hints about previous season plot points into the dialogue.  It took me more than a few moments to remember what happened between Green the valet and Anna and that nobody is 100% certain whether Bates had anything to do with his death.  Similarly, I spent a bit going "Ivy who?" when Mrs. Patmore threw out her name.

 

What happened to the supposedly budding romance between Carson and Mrs. Hughes?  Instead, most of the episode can be summed up as "Sad Sack Edith again feels sorry for herself.  Sad Sack Moseley is still a sad sack, tries to do something about it, and gets ridiculed.  Moustache Twirling Thomas is once again the evil moustache twirling Thomas.  Mary is still being Mary and still won't move on from her now three years dead husband.  Sarah Bunting, unappealing in her first appearance, is even more unappealing."

 

I really hope that something actually happens soon.

[Diane M]

Violet's butler should be sacked for ignoring Dr. Clarkson.  Any guest in Violet's home should have been treated with respect.  Poor man couldn't get a cup of tea, but he didn't complain.  I wish Isobel would marry him.  After all, they are good friends, he's a handsome and kind man, and they have similar interests, so why did she turn him down?

 

I really loathe Bunting, but I think we'll be stuck with her all season.  Tom deserves someone so much better than this annoying character.  If he marries her, he'll be henpecked.

 

I guess I'm the only one here who cares about Anna and Bates and their future.

[blackwing]

About the issues between Violet's servant and Clarkson... what exactly is the issue?  Is it that Clarkson is just a humble working class doctor who Spratt feels doesn't deserve to be waited on?  He seems to have no issues with Isobel and she is equally working class.  Was there some incident in a past episode that I cannot recall?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Widow "Special Snowflake" Crawley, is the Sookie Stackhouse of the DA universe.

 

So Edith is Tara.

[ZoloftBlob]

He seems to have no issues with Isobel and she is equally working class.  Was there some incident in a past episode that I cannot recall?

 

No it's pretentious and out of the blue except for Fellowes's presented reality that the servants of any household disdain having to serve "lower class" people. You can see examples of this in season one where Matthew was disdained because he "should've been a footman himself" because he was a lawyer. Spratt, being the DOwager's servant, probably mimics her disdain for the lower classes but Isobel is a frequent flyer in the home and probably Violet has allowed the constant petty humilation to stop.

[Diane M]

In one one of the earlier season, Spratt loathed working with the unwed mother (name?) who was learning to cook for Violet.  She took her under her wing to help her out, and Spratt was appalled at having her in the kitchen.  Even Carson isn't as stuffy as Spratt.

[StatMom]

Matthew dies in sept 1921. So Sybbie looking three and a half and George looking three works for 1924 - although the idea that Tony and Charles have been circling Mary for 2 and half years is ridiculous. Edith and Gregson had sex in April 1922, and he goes missing and she's discovering she's pregnant in June 1922. So Greggson disappears far too early to have been accosted by any formal Nazis (although there were a lot of groups running around Germany at the time) and Marigold is a bit too old looking for born in late 1922, early 1923.

Ah, thank you. So really only Marigold is inappropriately aged. The real problem is the lack of progress in the stories.

 

We must be watching two different shows

This is brilliant! There's a real sense of recycling the storylines and you have captured it beautifully. Now hopefully we at least won't see the same scene with Thomas and Baxter over and over and over...

[allboys]

I wonder if they just stopped writing new scripts for Thomas.  They just tell him to look menacing and find new ways to say "Tell me what you know about Bates"

[TexasGal]

I had totally forgotten the "we suspect Bates of murder (again)" storyline from last season.  I couldn't for the life of me remember what Baxter might know that she was withholding from Thomas.  Meh.

 

At least they didn't make poor Edith burn down the ENTIRE house.  At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a plot introduced which allows every other character to just walk by and punch her.

 

And, if Tom were to end up with one of the other daughters, I would so want it to be Edith.  She would be grateful and happy.  Mary would suck the life out of him.

[iMonrey]

Mary surprised me with her comments about the importance of sexual compatibility. I say good for her. Although I'm no fan of Gillingham, and have the same feeling someone else posted that he has a secret, or an angle. Is his family possibly broke? He's doing without a valet, I noticed.

 

His family isn't exactly broke, but it was established early on that they had the same financial difficulties that Robert was going through, and one of the things they did to resolve them was renting out their big manor house and moving into the Dower house, or some equivalent. But Mary knows all this. If Tony is just after her money she should have some inkling of it, because she knows he's not exactly flush with cash. If he has an angle, it must be something else.

 

In one one of the earlier season, Spratt loathed working with the unwed mother (name?) who was learning to cook for Violet.  She took her under her wing to help her out, and Spratt was appalled at having her in the kitchen.  Even Carson isn't as stuffy as Spratt.

 

It was Isobel's cook who refused to work with Ethel, the former prostitute. You may be confusing your households. Ethel never worked in Violet's home.

 

On the other hand, I don't remember ever seeing Spratt until Season 4.

[Hanahope]

I lost a bit of the dialogue at the beginning when Daisy was complaining about the lack of a new kitchen maid, about how some other house only had certain servants.  But I did get the gist that more "lower classes" were working in factories because there they probably only had to work 10-12 hour days and not 15-16 hour days.  But really, no local girl is desirous of working in the great manor house?  I didn't recall seeing any parlour or upstairs maids at the servant's dinner table either.

 

What's was the conversation between Anna and Bates over having children?  They've been married a few years now, shouldn't that have already happened naturally?  Or does Anna have some wonder birth control that she illegally procured somewhere?  Since Bates was married before and didn't have children, maybe there's something wrong with his fertility?

 

Also agreed that the pick up of Mary and suitors story line nearly a year later is a bit ridiculous.  Also surprising that Rose, who was just presented to the royal family and had a "season" in London opened by the Prince of Wales, isn't engaged.  Usually, the whole point of the the season was to get a husband.

 

Did Lord G meet Bunting before, or is he just going off on info from Thomas and maybe Violet (as Bunting was rude to her as well last season)?  It does seem that Bunting was more rude than Lord G was, and also whatever bias Lord G has against her, is from what he's heard from others, which was based solely on Bunting's own prior actions (being rude to Violet, pushing Tom to let her see the house - and the upstairs - where they ran into Thomas).  Gah at having to deal with Bunting all season, as we know she's going to teach Daisy.

 

And speaking of Thomas, man that guy has nine lives.  Every time you think he's done for, due to his own machinations, he somehow 'saves the day' and gets back into the G's good graces.  And yes, the G's should just advertise that they accept ex-thieves, since they now employ 3 of them. 

 

Definitely something more to Baxter's theft story line.  I'm almost positive its has to do with her own out of wedlock child.

 

I did like the conversations over sex between Violet and Isobel (hahah, Violet of course Lord Merton would be interested in sex, he's a man and not invalid), and then Mary talking about how she want's to 'be sure" in all things before she marries.  As if she's become some an expert now?  I suppose her experience with two men qualifies her more than other women.  How does she know that it could be bad?

 

So they are keeping Grigson's name alive.  Maybe he will show up, though likely at the most inopportune time.

[helenamonster]

Poor Edith.  Does the girl ever get a minute of happiness?  She's been sad-sacking around for over a decade now.  Even her brief dalliance with Gregson was tainted with the notion that there was something sneaky and creepy about him.  Did we ever find out why he was in Germany?  If it was pre-1924, then it was a bit too early for there to be some Nazi-esqe plot, so what was he up to?

 

Unless he had some sort of ulterior motive (entirely possible) his main reason for going to Germany was to get his German citizenship, which would allow him to divorce his wife. In the UK at the time, lunacy was not grounds for a divorce, but it was in Germany. The last we heard anything definitive on his whereabouts was in the S4 CS, when Edith told Rosamund that he had been set upon by a group of "men in brown shirts," aka early Nazis, and that he hadn't been heard from since. I doubt he's dead, since if they'd wanted to kill him off they could have. He'll be back.

 

 

What's was the conversation between Anna and Bates over having children?  They've been married a few years now, shouldn't that have already happened naturally?  Or does Anna have some wonder birth control that she illegally procured somewhere?  Since Bates was married before and didn't have children, maybe there's something wrong with his fertility?

 

I don't think Anna's using any birth control. At least she wasn't at the time of the rape. There was a line between her and Mrs. Hughes where Mrs. Hughes said something like, "At least now you know there'll be no baby," presumably because Anna had gotten her period and was in the clear. If Anna had been using something, she probably wouldn't have worried about that angle as much. It's possible that she's invested in something now, since she still has her suspicions about Bates and doesn't want to have his baby if he ends up being a murderer. It's just hard to tell anything because for some weird reason Fellowes refuses to give her a strong POV. All I know is she looked really uncomfortable during that conversation and doesn't seem to have any desire to have a baby. Which is actually kind of sad, because when she and Bates were first getting together and he mentioned children she seemed excited about it. That's probably the main reason I can't stand Bates anymore. I think my enjoyment of him was tied to Anna. She loved him and he made her happy, so I was fine to go along with it. But now his existence just seems to make her miserable so he makes me miserable too.

 

I'm surprised at how much Rose no longer bothers me. She's still a bit of an airhead who can't read a room to save her life, but she means well most of the time. I hadn't considered the possibility of her and Tom but they do kind of spark. The two of them would be a lot less squicky than Tom and Mary (sorry, I just can't get aboard that train).

 

Cora may have been lobotomized, but I did enjoy that long stare of "whaaa?" she gave Robert when he said that he thought Violet would be happy for Isobel if she married Lord Merton and became a lady of the county. She may not have much, but she totally has Violet's number.

Edited January 5, 2015 by helenamonster

[blackwing]

Anna remains my favourite character.  Even as Daisy (who I have never cared for at all and who always reminds me of a little elf girl) wistfully goes on about how there are less servants because everyone would rather work in a factory, Anna comes in and reminds her that the lives they have chosen for themselves are equally worthy.  She seems on the whole to be a very positive person despite the recent difficulties in her life.  Frankly I think I'd rather work in a big house as a servant amid the opulence with kind bosses, a decent place to sleep, and meals provided for than to work in a factory risking health and limb, even if it pays a little more and requires less hours.

 

What's was the conversation between Anna and Bates over having children?  They've been married a few years now, shouldn't that have already happened naturally?  Or does Anna have some wonder birth control that she illegally procured somewhere?  Since Bates was married before and didn't have children, maybe there's something wrong with his fertility?

I doubt she's using birth control, I think like many couples, they are just having difficulty getting pregnant.  There was a scene of Anna and Bates at the servant's dining table (with Baxter oddly looking on) where Anna mentioned something about having children and what it would be like but that it was "in God's hands".

 

 

 

Cora may have been lobotomized, but I did enjoy that long stare of "jigga whaaa?" she gave Robert when he said that he thought would be happy for Isobel if she married Lord Merton and became a lady of the county. She may not have much, but she totally has Violet's number.

I must be dense, because I was and still am completely confused as to what was going on there.  Exactly what is Violet trying to do?  I thought she was trying to fix up Lord Merton with Isobel but then she invited that other Lady (not Lady Anstruther, but another one whose name I can't remember) who was also widowed, and this Lady and Lord Merton struck it up and seem destined for each other.  Isobel even mentioned something near the end about how Lord Merton has "other intentions".  It seems telegraphed to me that Isobel and Dr. Clarkson will eventually end up together.  Is that what Violet is trying to do, to ensure that Isobel doesn't end up as gentry?

Edited January 5, 2015 by blackwing

[izabella]

Mary talking about how she want's to 'be sure" in all things before she marries.  As if she's become some an expert now?  I suppose her experience with two men qualifies her more than other women.  How does she know that it could be bad?

 

Maybe she wants to make sure Gillingham isn't the kind of guy who dies right after his orgasm.

[helenamonster]

I must be dense, because I was and still am completely confused as to what was going on there.  Exactly what is Violet trying to do?  I thought she was trying to fix up Lord Merton with Isobel but then she invited that other Lady (not Lady Anstruther, but another one whose name I can't remember) who was also widowed, and this Lady and Lord Merton struck it up and seem destined for each other.  Isobel even mentioned something near the end about how Lord Merton has "other intentions".  It seems telegraphed to me that Isobel and Dr. Clarkson will eventually end up together.  Is that what Violet is trying to do, to ensure that Isobel doesn't end up as gentry?

 

I think at first the idea of Lord Merton pursuing a reluctant Isobel amused Violet. But then once Robert pointed out she could be a lady of the county (and possibly outrank Violet? I suppose "Lady Merton" is a more prestigious title than Dowager Countess of Grantham/Old Lady Grantham), that just wouldn't do for Violet. She's always made it a point to be superior to Isobel and every way, and couldn't stand the thought of being, at the very least, on equal footing when it came to peerage. So she brought in Lady Shackleton (the widow from the first episode of last season when she was trying to sell Molesley to her but Spratt fucked it up) to distract Lord Merton and Dr. Clarkson to distract Isobel. Isobel doesn't seem particularly keen on the idea of marrying again anyway, but Violet wants to eliminate Lord Merton as an option.

[pasdetrois]

 

Definitely something more to Baxter's theft story line.  I'm almost positive its has to do with her own out of wedlock child.

 

As I watched I wondered if she needed money for her poor sick granny.

[Hanahope]

Either Violet suddenly realized that Lord Merton had an interest in Isobel beyond that of mere friendship, i.e. marriage, and that if Isobel married Lord Merton, her title would be higher and Violet was jealous and/or annoyed that it would be Isobel (thus tried to set Lord Merton up with someone who already was nobility), or Violet is using psychology to push Isobel into considering Lord Merton's potential marriage proposal (which Isobel seemed less than inclined to accept), by making it look as if she's trying to push Lord Merton to another lady.

[meep.meep]

Maybe she wants to make sure Gillingham isn't the kind of guy who dies right after his orgasm.

All I know is that we were screaming at him not to do it because of her poison vagina.

 

We also think that the production company has cornered the market in Dingy colored paint to use in the servants' quarters.

[Milz]

The kids age bit bothers me a little also.  Sybbie is the oldest, yet she and George appear to be the same age, with Marigold not far behind.  I think Marigold lived in Switzerland for a while, so I can see how she'd come to live with the Drewes a little older than an infant.  But that should mean Sybbie and George would be older than what they appear to be on the show.

 

Poor Edith.  Does the girl ever get a minute of happiness?  She's been sad-sacking around for over a decade now.  Even her brief dalliance with Gregson was tainted with the notion that there was something sneaky and creepy about him.  Did we ever find out why he was in Germany?  If it was pre-1924, then it was a bit too early for there to be some Nazi-esqe plot, so what was he up to?

 

Count me into the group who thinks Tony Gillingham is hot.  Count me also into the group that is confused as to what he sees in Mary.  While she's an attractive girl in real life, she's not the raving beauty that the show is desperately trying to imply.  Is it because she's  assumed to be "rich" by some of these suitors? The reality is that they are hanging onto the estate by little more than a thread, so it's not like they're a family using stacks of hundreds to light the fireplaces.  And even if money were no object, it's not like new husband would inherit the house.  That already is going to George.

 

Maybe they'll SORAS Marigold to be the same age as George and Sybbie?

 

Re: Gregson in Germany

 

If not NAZIs then the Soviets. In the early 20s, the Soviets had a counter-intelligence group that lured dissidents back the USSR to be executed. Germany would have been one of the stops on the road to Moscow for spies.

 

RE: Gillingham and the rest of Mary's suitors....

 

Money is probably the number 1 consideration. Even if Mary doesn't inherit Downtown, her husband could still enjoy being a "parasite" living the good life on the estate and whatever's left of Cora's money.

[Llywela]

About the issues between Violet's servant and Clarkson... what exactly is the issue?  Is it that Clarkson is just a humble working class doctor who Spratt feels doesn't deserve to be waited on?  He seems to have no issues with Isobel and she is equally working class.  Was there some incident in a past episode that I cannot recall?

Working class? Both Isobel and Dr Clarkson are resoundingly middle class - not the gentry, but well above the working masses.

 

The background with Violet, Isobel and Lord Merton, as I recall, was that Violet had to invite Lord Merton to some get-together or other, for reasons I can't recall, but asked Isobel to join them because she considered Merton a deathly bore and couldn't stand the thought of an afternoon in his company. She assumed Isobel would feel the same way, and was surprised when they hit it off - and has been bemused and bewildered by their relationship ever since.

[Avaleigh]

And yet, it was Mary who remained in her room staring at her fire for six months after Matthew died, while Edith got up for breakfast the day after she "lost," Anthony. 

 

 

To be fair I'd say that Mary was going through the more difficult loss between the two women so it's understandable to me why she'd need more time than Edith needed. Mary had just lost her husband and the father to her newborn son. Edith was jilted at the altar by a cowardly man and she was better off without him. I don't know I just feel like one situation seems like it would be a lot easier to get over than the other. Also, Edith got up the next day but it was in a very defeated and woe is me way. Edith deliberately makes the comment about how "unmarried girls are supposed to get up for breakfast." Mary OTOH had been married so she and Cora both have that breakfast in bed privilege. 

 

They've both loved and lost and had very bad luck, but at least Edith isn't still acting like a teenager with  constant snide remarks the way Mary does. She had something petty to say to Edith on Edith's wedding day, at their sister's death bed and now at a moment when Edith had almost burned to death.  

 

 

It was actually the other way around. Edith had something snide to say to Mary on Mary's wedding day whereas Mary was able to wish Edith well before the aborted wedding to Strallan.

 

"Lady Edith decided to burn down her room." It's lines like that that simultaneously make me want to high-five Mary and clock her across the face.

I thought it was a funny line. I agree that Mary is bitchy when she says stuff like this but it's one of the reasons I like her. And of course Edith would be the character to nearly burn the house down. It would either be her or Molesley.

 

Reminds me of Violet once accusing Isobel of wanting to burn down Downton and dance around it. I think Robert said something similar too about how they should be thankful Tom hasn't burned the roof over their heads or something like that. All along it was Edith they needed to watch out for! ;-)

 

I'm convinced that Rose is high all the time.  She just seems a little out of it, always smiling even when it isn't necessary.

 

 

Lol, so are you telling us that she's been dipping into Cora's laudanum stash? 

Edited January 6, 2015 by Avaleigh

[heebiejeebie]

Marrying a Lord would make Isobel a Lady.  Which is still far down the pecking order ladder of a Dowager Countess.  Violet isn't doing whatever she is doing to prevent Isobel from out ranking her.  That we know.  Well this is also Julian Fellowes who despite his inordinate love of the "noble" class still manages to get so much of it wrong.  Let's just say in the real world married to a Lord Merton would not elevate someone above a Dowager Countess.

 

Edith annoys the heck out of me with her sniveling and moping.  Robert's pomposity still has no bounds even when he is politically fencing with the shrill and dislikeable Bunting.  Funny that an interview I saw had both the performers who play Robert and Mary thinking their characters are pretty much complete asses most of the time and Fellowes in the same interview considers both his "voice".  The interview was prior to the last season so I have to really wonder at the dynamic of two leads playing roles the creator considers flawed but laudable but they consider more flawed than admirable.

 

I felt a bit cozy just sucking up the atmosphere but once again there is so much lather rinse repeat for the umpteenth time.  The only way any of the characters progress is to either die or leave the show.  The rest, Robert, Mary, Edith, Tom, Thomas, etc all go back to start and get the replay button hit.  We have seen them do the same damn thing season after season in some way or the other.

 

The actor playing Gillingham has a weird way of talking.  Physically that is.  His mouth does something.  Last season I thought he was hot.  This season, not so much.  The man hiding Edith's waif is hotter than the fire he was in the scene with.  But he is a male in Edith's life.  And I loathe cheating.  But still if he is going to fall into bed with anyone other than his wife, Isis stands a better chance.  No way is Edith going find even physical happiness at this point.  I suspect Mary is Fellowes mother and Edith is the wicked spinster aunt who left her money to her cat instead of her grubby nephew.  A new train line will go through the property and an express to York will mow Edith down.  That is what I picture for the final scene of the final show.  Oh, and just as she finds what she thinks is true and lasting happiness and contentment.

[blackwing]

Marrying a Lord would make Isobel a Lady.  Which is still far down the pecking order ladder of a Dowager Countess.  Violet isn't doing whatever she is doing to prevent Isobel from out ranking her.  That we know.

Actually, unless I am mistaken, we really don't know exactly what rank Merton holds.  Violet herself is a Lady, she is "Old" Lady Grantham.  Lord and Lady is simply a term used for the gentry.  Robert's title is Earl of Grantham.  The wife of an Earl is called a Countess.  Violet is the Dowager Countess of Grantham and is addressed as Countess or Lady.  The ranks below Earls are Viscounts and Barons and their wives can also be addressed as Lady even though they are Viscountesses and Baronesses.

 

The step above Earl is Marquess.  Above Marquess is Duke.  I doubt Merton is a Duke otherwise he would be referred to as the Duke of ______.  In a previous season, a Duchess came to visit and they made a point to identify her as a Duchess (I remember Violet telling Tom not to call her "Duchess" call her "Your Grace" or something like that).  If Merton is a Marquess then his wife would be a Marchioness and outrank a Countess.  But if he is another Earl, then I don't think Isobel would necessarily outrank Violet.  It seems Violet's distaste is just that Isobel would be joining the gentry at all, not necessarily because she would outrank her.

Edited January 5, 2015 by blackwing

[Andorra]

About the children:

 

Marigold was played by twins who were said to be 18 months old. We don't know the name and they're not identical twins, because Marigold keeps looking slightly different.

 

Sybbie is played by Fifi Hart, who was 4.5 in season 5

 

George was played by Zac and Oliver Barker who were 3 when they filmed Downton.

[iMonrey]

Did anyone watch the "after show party" that airs on PBS after the episode? It was mostly rubbish, but the host brought up one good point about this episode. The fact that the scene where Mary discusses taking Tony out on a "test drive" with Anna, and the scene where Tony comes to her room and proposes this very thing, should have been flopped. I agreed, it would have made more sense if Tony had come to Mary and made this shocking proposal first, and after she'd had time to consider it, maybe talked it out with Anna afterwards, instead of the other way around. The way it played out almost made it seem like Tony had been listening in to their conversation and was made aware of what her concern was so he decided to address it head-on.

[Avaleigh]

Did Lady Mary actually say to her parents, "I'm going upstairs and take my hat off? What the hell kind of dialogue is that?! I burst out laughing.  I laughed so much. I don't remember if it was "TO take my hat off, or "AND take my hat off." Either way, it was ridiculous.

 

 

Lines like this are one of the many reasons I enjoy this show. This is true period detail. Upstairs, Downstairs had multiple female characters go upstairs to do this very thing. It's a vanished time and way of life and it can often seem strange to us, and that's one of the reasons I find this show to be so fascinating and enjoyable. 

 

Marrying a Lord would make Isobel a Lady.  Which is still far down the pecking order ladder of a Dowager Countess.  Violet isn't doing whatever she is doing to prevent Isobel from out ranking her.  That we know.  Well this is also Julian Fellowes who despite his inordinate love of the "noble" class still manages to get so much of it wrong.  Let's just say in the real world married to a Lord Merton would not elevate someone above a Dowager Countess.

 

 

I don't think it's about fear of Isobel outranking her either and don't think Fellowes is trying to suggest that. I think it's more to do with the fact that Isobel marrying a peer means that she'll be able to move into the big house and choose to have a more prominent role in county life. Violet is out of the big house and some part of that is still hard for her even this many years later. To see Isobel in a role where she gets to be the grand lady I feel like it's almost like Violet thinks she's going to feel pangs about not being able to do that herself anymore, not in the same way on the same scale. Isobel would likely be entertaining, running a large house, overseeing staff, traveling more, plus I mean she'd have a loving husband--it seems like it would be a lot different than the quiet widow vibe she has going on with the Dowager Countess.

 

I think Lord Merton is a Baron. There are some very old baronies though as Lord Aysgarth pointed out to us in the season 4 Christmas special. I wouldn't be surprised if Merton's title is old. If he were an Earl then Isobel could outrank Violet if the Merton title was older than the Grantham title. I'm pretty sure that Merton is a Baron though. (I wonder if two earls would even typically live so close to one another?) I suppose he could be a viscount but I feel like there would have been some mention of Isobel potentially being the next viscountess but the word they keep throwing around is Lady and that suggests that Lord Merton is a baron since even though Baron/Baroness-Marquess/Marchioness are all addressed as Lord/Lady So-and-So, I've noticed that the words Baron and Baroness aren't really spoken very often unless they're in reference to titles from the Continent. e.g. If Isobel married Merton and became a widow I don't think anyone would refer to her as the Dowager Baroness Merton, I think it would be the Dowager Lady Merton whereas it's fine to say something like the Dowager Countess of Grantham.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by Avaleigh

[jazzpno]

What bothers me about the timeline is that Cora and Donk are celebrating their 34 anniversary which means that when the series started in 1911, they had only been married for 21 years. Are we to assume that Season one Mary was only 20?

 

Also, Rose seems far too young for Tom, and I usually don't mind age differences. Wasn't she just presented at Court last season? Perhaps it is her lack of maturity. We'll see as the season progresses.

 

I've always wanted Isobel to marry Dr. Clarkson,  but it would be amusing to see her outrank the Countess, especially since peerage means nothing to her.

 

Loved all of the "Jane Austin" movie alumna.

 

"Mosely looks...Latin" HEE!!!

[Avaleigh]

What bothers me about the timeline is that Cora and Donk are celebrating their 34 anniversary which means that when the series started in 1911, they had only been married for 21 years. Are we to assume that Season one Mary was only 20?

Also, Rose seems far too young for Tom, and I usually don't mind age differences. Wasn't she just presented at Court last season? Perhaps it is her lack of maturity. We'll see as the season progresses.

 

 

 

The show starts in 1912 and Mary was about 21. Edith was 20 and Sybil was about 17. Mary would have been born the year after her parents marriage. Mary should be about 33 now with Edith being around 32. Rose was presented later than most girls of her class and was about 21 when she was presented at court in 1923 making her about 22 now. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Avaleigh

[apgold]

So is Daisy going to have Miss Bunting tutor her in math? (or maths, as the Brits say?)  How old is Daisy supposed to be anyway?  She's been at Downton at least 12 years, so she's got to be in her late 20s if she's been working there since she was 15 or 16.  Daisy acts like someone in her early 20s, IMO.  

 

Moseley looked like he was dyeing his hair with shoe polish although I didn't think it looked that bad, it would've been worse if he tried a toupee.

 

I noticed that most of the scenes were about a minute or less, I suppose to fit in all of the characters, but it felt really choppy.  

 

I agree that Rose is less annoying so far this season, less the show's cousin Oliver, and now more of a youthful substitute for Sybil, since Mary and Edith are 30ish.

[heebiejeebie]

Lord Merton's surname is Grey.  Which suggests he is a Baron. His son was 'Honorable" so that makes it even more likely. By the twenties proximity probably played little in where Earls lived in regards to each other even with estates.  England is hardly that big after all and the numbers of titles were actually growing in the 1800s.

Plus the shift in how estates played their role in British High society complete with entry by the industrial and banking wealthy late Victorian times had evolved by the time Edward VII took the throne.

 

I have avoided the British season so I'm wondering if Jimmy is truly gone for good.  I suspect we will get another worthless segue to London after all from the way some of the characters were talking this episode.

[Avaleigh]

By the twenties proximity probably played little in where Earls lived in regards to each other even with estates.  England is hardly that big after all and the numbers of titles were actually growing in the 1800s.

 

 

The main reason I asked is because the non royal dukedoms seem pretty spread around so I wondered if it might be similar for earldoms and marquessates especially if the peers who were hanging onto their estates were growing fewer and fewer in number. 

 

Lord Merton's surname is Grey.  Which suggests he is a Baron. His son was 'Honorable" so that makes it even more likely.

 

 

The younger sons of earls are also styled as Honourables and I'm not sure if Larry is the oldest or not. Still, I agree that he's more than likely a baron but it's also possible that he's a viscount.

[magdalene]

I like Thomas. I think he is one of the more interesting characters on this soap opera. About once or twice each season the character does something heroic that keeps him from going off into total villain territory for me. And like some of the other characters I think Thomas is a victim of inconsistent writing. And the way Thomas always lands on his feet like a particularly surly and bristly tom cat makes me suspect that one day he will be butler. If the show runs another couple of seasons.

 

I really hope Gillingham is not "the one" for Mary - he and Mary have zero chemistry. Come on - there has to be someone out there with whom Mary will generate genuine sparks.

[JudyObscure]

it would be nice if Jimmy went to work in London and found out the truth about Greene's death.

 

Thinking about Mary's test drive with Gillingham:  I'm sure she won't get pregnant, since she's not Edith, but it's still risky and I think she already has the answer to her question.  When Mary first saw Pamuk she flamed up so fast she almost fell off her horse and once she decided Matthew was the one they couldn't keep from kissing even as others lay dying.  Now she's been around Gillingham for about a year and they're still able to stand alone in her bedroom and make prim conversation.  They should have been riding off into the woods by now if it's the real pepper sprout of lust. 

[Cranston]

If only to continue exploring the Jimmy/Thomas relationship...I bet Jimmy manages to stay on at Downton.  And the "The Mentalist" analogy is so spot on, I am amazed every time I see Jimmy on the screen.  What a cutie.

[ennui]

"RE: Gillingham and the rest of Mary's suitors....  Money is probably the number 1 consideration."

 

I don't think it's money, since many of the estates are broke. Mary is open about trying to change with the times in order to keep Dowton for her son rather than sell it off. I think it's the system, the titles, the hierarchy. Royalty marries other royalty, nobility marries other nobility, etc.

[Pallas]

Maybe she wants to make sure Gillingham isn't the kind of guy who dies right after his orgasm.

 

Or her labor.

 

Even if Mary doesn't inherit Downtown, her husband could still enjoy being a "parasite" living the good life on the estate and whatever's left of Cora's money.

 

Or rather, his wife's late husband's late fiancee's father's money.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

So. I'm not alone, in the Pig Guy/Fireman is hot club?

Dude looks like he will keep you warm, during cold nights in Yorkshire.

[LaChavalina]

So. I'm not alone, in the Pig Guy/Fireman is hot club?

Dude looks like he will keep you warm, during cold nights in Yorkshire.

I actually find him kind of creepy. Maybe it's just because he keeps getting wrapped up in other people's schemes, but he seems to do the job of concocting noble lies a little too well.