S29.E14: This Is My Time / Live Reunion

[jumper sage]

Is that true of most Christians or just the fundamentalists?  I think most Christians are past it.  Even the pope is.  

 

Missy saying she was a mother figure out there doesn't have to mean she treated them all the same.  Of course she didn't.  Reed hated her.  What did he expect-- tucked in at night?  

 

I never saw hateful Missy or bratty Baylor.  I wish they'd shown it.  It would've made better tv than all the tears we saw instead.  

You never watched the extras on the videos on the website?  Go watch them.  Um yes the die hard Christians are still anti gay.  Did you see the ponderosa video of Jeremy and Josh talking?  Watch it.  When the pope came out that he did not want to judge gays or they still should be welcomed in the church he also said he did not support gay marriage.  Still his speech was derided all over the country.

[cooksdelight]

Something Reed said, and Jeff sort of repeated, was how Missy doled out and ate more rice than they should have. And she somehow convinced everyone (off camera, to us) how pitiful she was and woe is me.... so she started getting freebie rewards that she didn't earn. And she got to stay in the game by sitting on the sidelines. I think there's a lot that went down in camp we weren't privvy to, which is why she gained the disrespect of most of the jury. She didn't win a single challenge, she didn't do anything to contribute to team wins that I can recall.

I wish it had been Keith, Jaclyn and Natalie in the final 3, just to hear what Keith would have said, and the fact that Jaclyn might have been the only sob story (which would have stuck out like a sore thumb). It would have been a much more interesting final, for me.

[Tryangle]

The seating at the reunion made me laugh.  Jaclyn's stool or stump was so much higher than those around her.  Natalie looked like a little girl sitting beside Jaclyn.  Natalie was the winner and it looked like she was sitting on a little kid's chair.

 

Yeah, it's like a stage hand forgot which stool to place where, and Natalie wound up sitting at the stool meant for Jaclyn.

 

Jeremy's jury speech was so boring and pointless. He thinks he's so much better than everyone else. Enjoy 10th place, Jeremy!

 

I suspect Jeremy was just at a loss for words. He was going to stump for Natalie, but got stage fright or something and wound up rambing incoherently.

 

Sheesh, thank you. I can't stand the whole "Keeping it real / just being honest here / I call it like I see it"  justification for unapologetically acting like an asshole.

 

Cosigned. So, so, true.

[valandsend]

During one of the commercials, I finally looked up MRKH after Jaclyn brought it up yet another time, and immediately wished I hadn't clicked on the Wikipedia entry first. Definitely NSFW!

[ChicksDigScars]

Heh, it would be hilarious if they actually made them wear giant white or blue collars, or no collars, throughout the game!

 

Blue and white buffs? And maybe a tie dye buff for the "free spirits?"

 

 

 

 

When Jeremy finished his little speech about how Keith didn't know how to play the game, I wish Keith would have turned around and asked him, "How far did you get again, Mr. I Know Everything About Survivor? I was in fourth place. About the only time I saw you was when you sitting in that jury box while I was still playing."

I think being voted out in tenth place for basically being a threat is preferable to being voted out in fourth for not being one or for having no clue of how to play the game.  Keith saying that to Jeremy would be all smoke, no fire.  All bark, no bite.  Plain and simple.

 

Really? When an unrated, underdog team, upsets a Top Ten ranked team in in the NCAA tournament, is it preferred to be the losing team? Because they were better on paper? No. You lost. You're done, eliminated. Season finished, You are now the team that underachieved and didn't live up to its hype. The supposed underdog now gets to advance and keep playing, getting more exposure, helping its recruiting status, the morale on its campus, and a chance to actually win the entire thing.  Jeremy, the younger, stronger, bigger threat, lost in the Sweet Sixteen. Keith made the Final Four. Which would you rather have bragging rights to?

 

Keith should have just turned around and simply said, "Scoreboard." 

Edited December 18, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[Tryangle]

Blue and white buffs? And maybe a tie dye buff for the "free spirits?"

 

Oh great, let the speculation on *another* Rupert appearance begin...

[Ms Blue Jay]

I felt pity when Jeremy said that Keith wasn't made for Survivor.  Does he really not realize how stupidly that comes off as?  In the end Keith was a far far better player than Jeremy, so he was made for Survivor and Jeremy well, wasn't.  All that matters is the result.

 

As a Russell fan I actually hate admitting this, because he's never won yet I prefer him as a player to the people that beat him.  But I have to grudgingly admit the people who bested Russell were made for Survivor more than he was.

 

I don't mind it either. These things always seem a little hokey at first, but I thought the Beauty-Brains-Brawn season was one of the more exciting ones we've had in recent years.

 

In my opinion it was easily the most exciting in the past 7 or 8 seasons.  All I could think during this year's finale was that I remember the emotional moment of Spencer falling to the ground after winning an Immunity challenge towards the end of Cagayan.  Even though I loved Natalie and all of her gameplay I doubt anything in this season (added all up together) even came close to the emotion I felt for Spencer's win in that moment and I don't even like Spencer.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[FineWashables]

Amusing how they never showed Rocker's girlfriend's face, just her cleavage on prominent, constant display behind the final 3.

 

Have to give props to Baylor and Missy for suddenly getting classy when Natalie got Baylor voted off.  That was a surprise.  If they'd behaved that way during the game, I would have felt very differently about both of them.

 

Jacklyn accepted Jon's proposal because he at least made it to the merge.  Nobody wants to date someone who can't even make it to the merge.

 

I was sure Keith would vote Missy rather than Natalie because when he addressed the F3, he made it clear that he was disgusted with Natalie's lying . That said, good on you, Keith and Wes, for voting for the more deserving player even though you're not happy with how they treated you.  I figure Keith is a lock to be a returning player.  

 

Even though Sprint is no longer ponying up the $100K for fan favorite, you'd think the show could just spring for it.  What a disappointment.  I assume Keith would have won.

 

Finally, I don't want to start a new thread because I don't know if anyone else would be interested in speculating along with me, but if they do involve celebrities in the Class Warfare season, I wonder who they'd try to cast.  This is fantasy -- and definitely not a good one! -- but imagine this:

 

White Collar: Donald Trump

Blue Collar: Coach

No Collar: L'il Wayne

 

Tell me you wouldn't set aside time to watch that happen!

Edited December 18, 2014 by FineWashables

[Dobian]

Something Reed said, and Jeff sort of repeated, was how Missy doled out and ate more rice than they should have. And she somehow convinced everyone (off camera, to us) how pitiful she was and woe is me.... so she started getting freebie rewards that she didn't earn. And she got to stay in the game by sitting on the sidelines. I think there's a lot that went down in camp we weren't privvy to, which is why she gained the disrespect of most of the jury. She didn't win a single challenge, she didn't do anything to contribute to team wins that I can recall.

I wish it had been Keith, Jaclyn and Natalie in the final 3, just to hear what Keith would have said, and the fact that Jaclyn might have been the only sob story (which would have stuck out like a sore thumb). It would have been a much more interesting final, for me.

True about Missy, I didn't forget how she had squandered their rice.  I didn't dislike her, but I knew she couldn't win because while the broken foot wasn't her fault, before that she hadn't done anything in the game except play the alliance strategy very well.  And she did get a good share of unearned perks.

 

Reed's "Wicked Step Mother" speech gets the Sue Hawk award.

 

I agree with Blue Jay, Jeremy just came off as an ass last night.  Keith went way farther than you, dude, and it wasn't by luck.

 

Anyway, congrats to Natalie.  As soon as she got Jon voted out I picked her to win the whole thing.  Too bad Keith didn't join Missy and Jaclyn's conversation last night, he might have been able to give Jaclyn that one little push to vote out Natalie, as she was already considering it.  Wouldn't have mattered to Jaclyn in the end, as the mock vote by Probst showed that Keith would have won if he made the final three.

[Scratch]

That was unexpected some. When I had heard that the Twinnies were going to be on, I felt a deep dread that we'd be subjected to more cries of "TWINNIE!" over and over. On the Amazing Race, I thought of them as the CAPSLOCK TEAM, because it was like they were always shouting.

 

So I was quite happy when Nadiya got voted out first.

 

And now I'm quite happy that Natalie won, she played a terrific, strong and intelligent game, she deserved the victory. 

 

I didn't expect that.

[Guest]

Correcting myself here-- I think Josh referred to himself and Reed as pioneers, not role models.  Which to me is even more laughable.  Especially since Reed's idea of Christian seems to consist of being judgmental and holier than thou.  

[TaraS1]

In my house, I am known as a notorious jinx on all those I root for on reality shows, so this might be the first time in 29 seasons that the person I wanted to win from day one actually pulled it off. (I'm also in the minority who loved the Twinnies in all their screechy, annoying glory on TAR.) But when Missy & Jaclyn foolishly voted out Keith, I knew Twinnie had it in the bag. 

 

The slack-jaw Alec shots never.got.old.  I laughed and paused it on his face every single time they showed him.  So kudos to the director/editor for the endless entertainment.

 

Reed?  Get over yourself.  There's no question that Missy was annoying throughout the game, and extra annoying when it came to defending Baylor, but that melodramatic speech was ridiculous.  And IMO it all boiled down to him being pissed that Missy (annoyingly but predictably) snapped on him when he called Baylor a brat during that one challenge.  I think he let that fester, and decided he'd come up with a big Broadway-style, jazz-hands monologue to chastise her with and get some attention/airtime for himself.  Sorry, but you will never be in Sue Hawk's league, pal.

 

And Baylor was irritating too, but I can hardly blame her for being upset that he blasted her mom.  Although if he spoke to my mother like that, I wouldn't have cried, I would have turned around and punched him in his Greg Brady perm face.

[Special K]

I didn't see the reunion, and thus the promo for next season, but reading about it on this thread, I had this heart-seizing moment:  OMG, they're going to pit laborers against office workers against the unemployed!  Talk about cynical exploitation of the recession!

 

Then I realized it was just young free spirits.  Which might be another name for the unemployed, now that I think of it.

 

And since I can't seem to post without including a disparaging comment about Missy :)  let me say that the irony of seeing people literally carrying Missy around, on their backs, was not lost on me, nor the editors, as she was carried to the FTC by others.  We saw her own (much smaller) daughter carrying her on her back.  And in the last instance, we saw Natalie carrying her back to camp piggy-back-style.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Special K

[gesundheit]

What a great ending to a lackluster season. I can't wait for White Collar/ Blue Collar/ People Who Think They're Too Special For Employment!

 

I loved Reed's rant at FTC. He's a showman, he was cast to be a showman, and he did not disappoint. That was great television. He must have stayed up all night writing that, he looked so excited to be saying all of it. Highly entertaining.

 

I too thought it was rude of them to define Missy by "three times divorced".  Why didn't we ever hear that she actually has a career- a cheerleading gym?  Or that Baylor sings?  I think Reed/Josh picked their 'edit':  gay Christians.  Why didn't Missy and Baylor get to pick theirs?  

Reed and Josh didn't get to select their edit any more than Missy and Baylor did, but as the former are both entertainers in real life I imagine they were far more strategic about it in terms of what the editors could work with. Missy and Baylor talked plenty about Missy's divorces.

 

Reed's speech kind of pissed me off. I felt like he was going for his big Sue Hawk moment. For two guys that said they were connoisseurs of the game, how did they both end up voting for Jacqueline? Nat far and away was the best player left.

They didn't both vote for Jaclyn.

 

I call BS on Josh's "We didn't set out to be role models!"  I don't think they are role models, except in their own minds.  I don't think 'gay Christians' is any more rare than any other combo of major world religion and sexual orientation.  By even suggesting it is they themselves seem to be implying there's something 'heathen' or anti-spiritual about gayness, or even sinful.  

This hits a little close to home for me, admittedly, because I do work on a hotline for LGBT youth. But there are tens of thousands of Christian kids sitting around right now terrified that they're going to burn in hell because of their sexual orientation, or afraid that they will have to turn their backs on a faith that matters to them in order to be who they are and wondering if just removing themselves from the earth is the only solution. It's actually a big deal that they were on there showing that you can live as both (and on a show that is based on lying and backstabbing, I'm not going to ask them for perfect squeaky-clean Christian behavior in the context of the game show).

 

I don't really think Jaclyn/Missy made a mistake by not voting out Natalie. Keith would've beat them too. I was sorry to see Keith feeling so embarrassed on the reunion -- he kicked ass as one of the biggest underdogs on the season!

 

Why do they even let quitters come to the reunion?

 

Anyway. Very satisfying results. 

[Dobian]

That was unexpected some. When I had heard that the Twinnies were going to be on, I felt a deep dread that we'd be subjected to more cries of "TWINNIE!" over and over. On the Amazing Race, I thought of them as the CAPSLOCK TEAM, because it was like they were always shouting.

 

So I was quite happy when Nadiya got voted out first.

 

And now I'm quite happy that Natalie won, she played a terrific, strong and intelligent game, she deserved the victory. 

 

I didn't expect that.

I had the exact same feeling.  I'm not a fan of people who get on these shows and then get brought back again.  They've had their fifteen minutes, time for someone else to get a shot.  And they did seem overbearing in the beginning so I was glad Nadiya was gone right away.  And I continued to dislike Natalie with her loudmouth assault on Rocker an episode or two later, but as the game wore on she won me over with her very smart playing, and took over control of the game near the end which is the mark of a winner.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Dobian

[SHOgirl]

Correcting myself here-- I think Josh referred to himself and Reed as pioneers, not role models. Which to me is even more laughable. Especially since Reed's idea of Christian seems to consist of being judgmental and holier than thou.

I can't speak of all Christians, but based on the ones I know, there is nothing pioneering about being a judgmental and holier than thou Christian. Where I'm from, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

[SimonHumboldt]

I think being voted out in tenth place for basically being a threat is preferable to being voted out in fourth for not being one or for having no clue of how to play the game.

 

No way.  Because if your social and strategic game is so lousy that you cannot put together an alliance or a strategy that gets you further than 10th place, then you are not really that much of a threat.

 

It is ALWAYS better to get further in the game than get voted off. ALWAYS.

 

Jeremy reminds me of the people that get voted off first and say, "It's a good thing they got rid of me first, because if they didn't I would have won the game."  Riiight.

 

Yes, Keith had that terrible tribal council where he blabbed Reed's plan to vote Jon out. (That actually endears me to him because it torpedoed Reed's plans and expedited his ouster.)  But beyond that, he found an idol and played it at the right time to save himself.  He won several immunity challenges, and winning immunity is part of the game. He positioned himself as a more desirable asset for Natalie to keep over Alec, and played his part in booting Jon. He worked hard at camp which is always better than conspicuously lying around doing nothing. And he was in a position where if he won the final immunity and booted Natalie, he would win the game.

 

He's not even close to the worst 4th place finisher ever, and if Outlast is one of the three components of Survivor, then he Outlasted circles around Jeremy.

[Cutty]

If you think Jeremy is cocky go watch his extra video before FTC. He actually said that one reason he might not vote for Natalie was because she didn't vote him out and he was the best player and you shouldn't win if you didn't take out the best player. Ha ha ha. This guy is a legend in his own mind. 

[valandsend]

One thing I miss about these "Blood Vs. Water" seasons is how the  players' IDs don't tell us anything about where they're from or what line of work they're in. Even in the last episode, we were still seeing "Wes' Dad" under Keith's name. I know the show has to show us the pairings early in the season so we can keep track of everyone, but once we know everybody, it would be nice to get these details.

[blackwing]

Truly, I don't think Missy had any chance at all of winning.  Reed may have been using his time to tell others why not to vote for Missy, but I'm assuming that at Ponderosa these people all had constant discussions about the voting.  I'm sure everyone on the jury knew how he felt about Missy, especially those that were still in the game that witnessed the "Baylor you're a brat" confrontation.

 

His only purpose in giving that fairy tale analogy was to attempt to embarrass Missy on national TV.  So overly dramatic, complete with finishing theatrical hand flourish.  Well, for me at least, it completely backfired.  The only one that got embarrassed was himself.  It makes him look like a spiteful and petty person.  We have no idea of knowing whether Missy was "the wicked stepmother" because I can't recall any instances where Missy treated the people in her alliance better than the others.  And if she did, so what?  The whole point of Survivor is to advance your own position in the game, and you do that by cultivating relationships with others.  It seems like once people are divided into alliances, that it would be natural to be friendlier to the people in your alliance.  Why on earth would Missy ever be friendly to Reed?  He and his guy alliance was very nasty to Baylor and Missy almost the entire time.

 

In the end, what it comes down to is that Reed is just jealous that Missy managed to Outwit, Outplay, and Outlast him.

[ProfCrash]

I do not take your final position in the game as a sign of how well you played the game. Stronger players are targeted earlier. A Good player figures out how to get around those pitfalls and controls the game. Josh almost pulled it off but was taken down by the Neanderthals and their behavior/ignoring Jaclyn. Jeremy almost pulled it off but was out maneuvered by Reed, who wisely did not tell Keith what was happening. Reed almost pulled it off but was taken out by Keith's inability to keep his mouth shut.

 

Keith did not understand the concept of a sub alliance. Jeremy had to explain that to him at Tribal and even after that explanation, Keith was confused. Keith was not told about Jeremy's blindside because they knew that Keith would screw it up. Keith was told that Reed was going to come after Keith and the immunity idol hard and that he just had to suck it up and say nothing. Keith managed to screw that plan up. Keith made it to the end because he was not seen as a target (which is why Josh and Jeremy were taken out early) he was a useful tool ( which is why he stayed over Alec) and he won immunity in a few places. His clueslessness helped him get further in the game but the only concern was that he would win immunity and not that he was going to mastermind anything, or keep a great plan secret. Watch his Ponderosa video, even Wes was frustrated with his play.

 

I like Keith as a person but he really is an awful player and did not understand any type of strategy.

 

Finally, I offer who he suggested to Jaclyn to vote out. Keith suggested Missy. Missy, who had gotten into pissing matches with how many people and was not liked by most of the folks on the jury. Not Natalie, who had made big moves and voted out Jon, but Missy. Keith couldn't see that pointing out that Natalie had more votes then Missy and he would make a stronger argument. He targeted Missy, probably for personal reasons. Keith's personal dislike of Missy was strong enough that Natalie knew that Keith would vote out Missy if he won the final immunity. That speaks volumes about how Keith was playing the game. He is an older Woo and that is quite simply not a person whose game play I can respect.

If you think Jeremy is cocky go watch his extra video before FTC. He actually said that one reason he might not vote for Natalie was because she didn't vote him out and he was the best player and you shouldn't win if you didn't take out the best player. Ha ha ha. This guy is a legend in his own mind. 

Cutty, if you watch all of those videos you will see that each of the Jury members were asked to explain why they would vote for each of the final three. Reed discussed why he would vote for Missy, aka the Evil Step Mom. Jeremy was probably asked why he wouldn't vote for Natalie and had to come up with something and the only thing he could come up with was that she was not behind voting him out.

[SimonHumboldt]

If you think Jeremy is cocky go watch his extra video before FTC. He actually said that one reason he might not vote for Natalie was because she didn't vote him out and he was the best player and you shouldn't win if you didn't take out the best player. Ha ha ha. This guy is a legend in his own mind.

 

Good grief. What a clown. Ha ha ha indeed.  Can't believe I was rooting for him early on.

 

Interestingly he compliments Missy and has nothing bad to say about her, whereas you would assume the whole jury except Baylor hated her based on Reed's bitchy little soliloquy.  If Missy was really all that bad you would expect one or two other jurors to unload on her. It just reinforces my hunch that Reed would have tailored his ridiculously rehearsed over-the-top "villain" speech to match ANY Final 3 configuration, just to soak up more attention and camera time like a buttermilk biscuit sopping up country gravy.  I absolutely believe he had a backup speech ready for Baylor if she made F3, and probably even for Jacklyn or Keith if neither Baylor nor Missy made it.  Dude's gotta have that spotlight.

[Brookside]

Damn, Missy cleans up real good.

 

Seemed to me like Mr Botox had a hand in that.

[cooksdelight]

Keith may have taken a little time to learn the game, but at least you didn't have to tell him 50 times who to vote for....Alec....

[Special K]

Yeah, I think Keith may have been at a loss in the strategy department, but he was definitely suited to the other aspects of Survivor -- he had no trouble living outdoors and working hard; people pretty universally liked him; and he dominated in many challenges, far beyond what people expected of him.

 

Others have won Survivor for less. I'm talking to you, Fabio...

[BigRedCheese]

For those that miss the fan favorite prize, Rob Cesternino had a fan favorite vote, the prize is a throw pillow. Nat won it, wow, a million bucks and a free throw pillow, you go girl :)

[Eolivet]

Oh, I forgot to talk about the super gross, OTT sexism during the rehash of the Jon/Jaclyn fight. How embarrassing for everyone, but especially Probst, of course.

 

I was just thinking about the OTT sexism, and I looked to see if there was a feminism thread, and while it's also archetypes, it's not fox/bear/goat/bunny, I hope it's the right spot for it:

 

I watched this episode with my husband, who was so convinced that Missy or Jaclyn would win. I told him that was impossible since the jury was nearly all men (or really male reality show contestants, since there is a difference), except one woman whose vote was non-negotiable. Natalie, by luck or design, was sitting next to the two female reality show archetypes that I believe male reality show contestants hate more than anything.

 

Missy was "bad Mommy" who, as we've seen with Dawn in previous seasons, most contestants (men in particular) hate because mothers are supposed to be nice, and when they're not, men get offended. Jaclyn was "Useless beauty." The argument against her is obvious: coattail-rider, did nothing all game. But I believe the deeper-seated reason male reality show contestants feel she's useless is because she's taken by another man and thus uninterested in them, sexually. This wouldn't apply to Josh and Reed (the latter who obviously voted for her).

 

Natalie won by skill, but in the world of reality show contestant archetypes, she also won by default. The other contestants had no interest in her nurturing or her looks -- just her gameplay. Which was ideal in a nearly all-male jury.

[ProfCrash]

Fabio, Woo, Keith are all in the same category to me. They were clueless and played in seasons where somehow or another they got away with being that clueless. Fabio was pretty much rewarded for being so clueless. Nice guys but awful Survivor players.

 

Missy was no were near Dawn or Lisa Mommy type thing. I really think there was a lot that were not shown back at camp because Missy and Baylor have been targets in every interview. I am not sure why would not have been shown the bad behavior or if it was one of those subtle, annoying if you live with it for 39 days, which is also possible. Several people mentioned that Missy gave Baylor more rice then others. She did seem to baby Baylor a fair amount was called on that by many a person. I don't think it was worthy of Reed's little speech. I do think that Reed and Josh are superfans and Reed wanted to do something that would be remembered. His game play was mediocre so he went for the over the top speech.

 

The more we heard from folks, the more we heard that Jaclyn did not approach them to talk or strategize. Yes, Alec, Wes, and Keith did not approach Jaclyn but she never approached them. She talked to Josh and Reed when they approached her but it did not sound like she was trying to work with them. Jon was the one that the guys talked to because he was willing to talk to them. He was the social one of the two. So, yeah, Jaclyn rode his coat tail. She was flipping voted because people were not being nice to her. The guys were rude and ignored her, we can't vote with them. Missy didn't take me on reward, we should flip. I am sorry, but Jaclyn was not impressive in this game.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ProfCrash

[shanti]

I wonder if it was Keith who had been divorced 3 times if they would have constantly focused on it. The latent sexism on this show makes me fucking sick. But credit to Jeff for what he said on the reunion show about it.

I think a majority of it was that Missy and Baylor kept talking about the divorces. It was even part of Baylor's final speech to her mom. How could the editors cut it out?

[gesundheit]

Yeah, I think Keith may have been at a loss in the strategy department, but he was definitely suited to the other aspects of Survivor -- he had no trouble living outdoors and working hard; people pretty universally liked him; and he dominated in many challenges, far beyond what people expected of him.

 

Others have won Survivor for less. I'm talking to you, Fabio...

I totally agree. There are many ways to advance in this game and you go with your strengths. His wasn't strategy, it was challenges and being super-helpful around camp and generally being Mr Congeniality. And considering how little he knew going in? Good for him. 

 

 I do think that Reed and Josh are superfans and Reed wanted to do something that would be remembered. His game play was mediocre so he went for the over the top speech.

Totally. That wasn't some impassioned accident. Just as he was criticizing the legacy of her Survivor "character," he was creating the legacy of his own. He's thrilled today that everyone's talking about it and thinking it was overkill. I'd bet money that even before the game started he planned to make a dramatic FTC speech if he wasn't going to be in the hot seat. Who knows, he might've had a future "villains" season in his head. 

[Taylorh2]

Damn Reed. The next time I feel the need to tell someone off.  I'm going to hire you.

 

That was the most beautifully articulate 'you aint shit ' speech that I think I've ever heard. lol

Edited December 18, 2014 by Taylorh2

[SimonHumboldt]

Stronger players are targeted earlier. A Good player figures out how to get around those pitfalls and controls the game.

 

Exactly. That is why Jeremy and Josh did not play a good game. They put a target on their own backs by allowing others to form a perception of them as threats, without forming alliances or strategies that would protect them from being voted out as threats. If "a Good player figures out how to get around those pitfalls and controls the game," then by definition they are not good players. Only Natalie played a game that fit that description. She was the only good player which is why it was kind of a lame season.

 

I like Keith as a person but he really is an awful player and did not understand any type of strategy.

 

I agree. Nevertheless this awful player was only one more immunity win away from winning the game. Or he would have won the game if Jacklyn and Missy decided to vote out the best player (Natalie) to increase their chances of winning.

 

In a season full of bad players (except Natalie), Keith is a bad player who came VERY close to actually winning the game. Therefore, he played a better game than Jeremy, a bad player who got voted out in 10th place.

 

Keith did not understand the concept of a sub alliance. Jeremy had to explain that to him at Tribal and even after that explanation, Keith was confused.

 

Merely knowing what alliances and sub-alliances are doesn't help you if you cannot form one that will save your sorry ass from getting voted out in 10th place.

 

Jeremy was probably asked why he wouldn't vote for Natalie and had to come up with something and the only thing he could come up with was that she was not behind voting him out.

 

Or he could have said "Natalie clearly played the best game by far and deserves my vote" rather than the nonsense he came up with in which he actually called himself the best player.

 

In the end, what it comes down to is that Reed is just jealous that Missy managed to Outwit, Outplay, and Outlast him.

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

I'm sure everyone on the jury knew how he felt about Missy, especially those that were still in the game that witnessed the "Baylor you're a brat" confrontation.

 

And the whole reason for his "Baylor you're a brat" comment is that he just couldn't stand it that she saw through him and called him out on his insincere phony baloney with Jacklyn. ("We love you Jacklyn!" ... "You love everybody, Reed.")  He called Natalie a self-serving hypocrite for giving up a reward and then turned around and did the exact same thing himself.  He's a phony.

[liqidclark]

This season suuucked. Lots. But I'll admit that it was nice that a good player won. And being that this was BvW, it's cool that the sole survivor was the only player who actually had to, you know, survive the game on her own.

 

I don't want to see any of this cast in future seasons.

[Cutty]

So who are the all-stars from this season (if any)?

 

Given how much airtime Reed got at the reunion show he seems likely. I'd also say the self professed genius Jeremy. That's about it.

[ProfCrash]

I'll cut people some serious slack when it comes to hypocrisy in the game, pretty much everyone does it. Whether it is giving up rewards, claim loyal game play while stabbing people in the back, or whatever. They all do it and they are all surprised when others call them on it. It is as much a part of the game as lying and backstabbing.

 

Several folks said that Baylor had been making comments targeting Reed during that challenge and that we simply were not shown them.

 

Jeremy did say he was voting for Natalie but was asked to explain why he might not vote for her. He gave an entire speech on why she should win at final tribal, do you really think he was being sincere when he commented that she didn't vote him out? I'll give people crap for some of the dumb things that they will do but when they are asked specific questions, and it is clear that they are being asked specific questions, I will ignore the stupidity. Reed said in his interview he would vote for Missy just like Jeremy said he wouldn't vote for Natalie. So, I don't see it as much.

 

Jeremy thinks highly of his game, that much is clear. He lost. He is more frustrated then others that he played with that he lost. He can't believe he was out before some of the others like Alec, Wes, and Keith. I can understand why he is baffled by that, they were not good players. They simply were not good players. I can understand being annoyed to be knocked out before those dudes. Josh got over it better then Jeremy but I can fully see why it is frustrating. You have Wes who didn't take an idol to stay in a game. You have Alec who is slack jawed and not exactly bright. You have Keith who has no concept of strategy.

 

There are many components to Survivor. Jeremy and Josh failed to hide well enough and got taken out early. But position in the game does not equate with good game play. Many times, position is based on people thinking you are easy to get rid of whenever they want to. I'll take getting taken out because I was seen as a strong player then taken out fifth because they knew I would be easy to take out.

[truthaboutluv]

My main problem was that there's a time and a place for that. I have never understood any juror who chooses to use the FTC to just walk up and insult one of the finalists. If there's no way you're voting for them, and you're confident that they already stand no chance of winning, then you're just standing there insulting a person who really isn't in a position to say anything back.

 

 

But when is the time and place seeing as the minute players are voted out, they have zero interaction with the players left in the game, until they are subsequently voted out. The final tribal council, going all the way back to Season 1 with Sue's infamous snakes vs. rats speech has always been about the Jury who has remained silent for days, getting a chance to ask questions of those left in the game and yes say how they feel about them. Sometimes it's mean and brutal yes but that is also why the social game has always been a key component of Survivor. And why you have the Russell's who sure, outwitted, outplayed and outlasted but never won because his social game was shit. And that essentially was what Reed was saying to Missy. That for him, she was horribly unpleasant out there. 

 

And then to show no caring at all for Missy's feelings at the reunion by refusing to at least say he didn't mean to hurt her.

 

 

He did say that or something to that effect and went on to be very clear that everything he said to Missy that night was with regards to who she was out there, while they were playing Survivor and not a commentary on her as a person in her everyday life as he doesn't know her outside of Survivor. But playing the game of Survivor with her, that's how she came across to him and I see nothing wrong with him not apologizing if he stands by what he said. That would have just been fake and pandering. 

 

For two guys that said they were connoisseurs of the game, how did they both end up voting for Jacqueline?

 

 

Josh voted for Natalie. Jaclyn only got two votes - Jon and Reed.

 

I don't mind it either. These things always seem a little hokey at first, but I thought the Beauty-Brains-Brawn season was one of the more exciting ones we've had in recent years.

 

 

Agreed, especially as I don't think it's those gimmicks necessarily that makes a season interesting or not but rather the cast. So as long as they have an interesting cast of players for this Class thing, it should be great. 

 

The seating at the reunion made me laugh.  Jaclyn's stool or stump was so much higher than those around her.  Natalie looked like a little girl sitting beside Jaclyn.  Natalie was the winner and it looked like she was sitting on a little kid's chair.

 

 

Good so I wasn't imagining things. I remember watching and at one point going, "why is Natalie so much shorter than Jaclyn and she's the one who won the damn game?" That was really strange. I don't think I ever remember seeing that the other reunion shows.

 

I didn't see it on the show, and didn't hear players complaining about it in confessionals.  Sounds like revisionist history because if any of this was on camera, they certainly would have shown it.

 

 

There is a lot that does not get shown because these people have so many hours of footage and have to narrow it down to 13 one-hour episodes (save for the premiere and finale which are usually two hours). So I don't think one can automatically say it's "revisionist history" on the part of the players who were actually out there all those hours playing with each other and seeing how they acted all the time. Unless the revisionist history is about viewers' comments and if so, that can be applied to many players.

 

Some viewers have hated Reed as far back as episode 3 or 4, when he was mostly mute based solely on Drew and later Kelly's interview I believe where they said he was causing issues in those early days and the tribe didn't like him. We saw none of that during the season at all. The episode when Hunahpu went to tribal council that one and only time, Reed's name never even came up in the discussion for who to get rid of. But plenty of opinions were formed about him from that so I don't think it's so unfair to Missy if some viewers are saying a bunch of the players seemed to acknowledge issues with her in their media interviews. 

 

But to vote for someone NOT to win but only to break a tie for 2nd place, and not because you feel bad for anyone but out of sheer spite, solely to dick someone out of a 2nd place tie and 2nd place money -- that shows a level of petty vindictive assholishness that might be unprecedented even for SURVIVOR. And that's really saying something.

 

 

Putting aside the simple fact that no one actually knows why exactly Reed vote for Jaclyn unless he states it himself, I don't see anything wrong in voting for someone because you like them and want them to get second place because you know they're not going to win. I mean really Reed's vote even if it was to avoid a tie for second place is unprecedented for Survivor - really? Again when we had All-Stars where Amber got 4 votes that were essentially 3 "I would rather die than vote for that guy who I loathe because he had the audacity to outplay me" and 1 vote from Shii Ann who truly believed she played the better game and deserved to win. Natalie was going to win, I'm sure most of the jury through talking to each other realized this. Reed's choice was between her and Jaclyn since there was no way in hell he was voting for Missy - and so he decided to throw a vote to Jaclyn who he genuinely liked probably knowing she was only going to get Jon's vote. I hardly see this as some big evil move and certainly not the most vindictive ever in the 20+ season history of this show. 

Edited December 18, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[shanti]

You seem to have forgotten about a certain legendary Survivor goddess named Kim Spradlin. And I personally hold Sophie and Denise in pretty high regard, as well. That takes nothing away from Natalie, though. She played a great game and totally deserved the win.

I don't know - did anyone of them win Survivor twice? :) Sandra FTW!

[lilly6]

Correcting myself here-- I think Josh referred to himself and Reed as pioneers, not role models.  Which to me is even more laughable.  Especially since Reed's idea of Christian seems to consist of being judgmental and holier than thou.  

 

Until about 2 years ago, when he met Josh, Reed was a devout Catholic.  He only started into the Hillsong NYC, contemporary born-again Christian bit after meeting Josh. 

 

Josh is clearly still struggling with coming out and reconciling his religious upbringing and his family with his orientation.  He can't just be gay and be a Christian and be whatever else, he has to be the Best Gay Christian Pioneer.

 

What really bugs about Josh is that everything is about him, him, him.  He couldn't even congratulate the top 3 without inserting himself into his comments ala "I wish I were up there." 

 

I think Missy was a total beyotch to Reed all along, with a twinge of homophobia at times, but his speech was clearly designed to get attention and cement his place as a memorable contestant.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Keith really grew on me. Loved his "stick to the plan!" story. How much you wanna bet that goes on his headstone one day?

Nat, girl. As Jeremy said, "You were ballin'!" Well done.

[SimonHumboldt]

Natalie, by luck or design, was sitting next to the two female reality show archetypes that I believe male reality show contestants hate more than anything ... Missy was "bad Mommy" ... Jaclyn was "Useless beauty" ... I believe the deeper-seated reason male reality show contestants feel she's useless is because she's taken by another man and thus uninterested in them, sexually ... Natalie won by skill, but in the world of reality show contestant archetypes, she also won by default. The other contestants had no interest in her nurturing or her looks -- just her gameplay. Which was ideal in a nearly all-male jury.

 

Huh?  Female reality show archetypes?  Deconstructing sexist / feminist subtexts in a Final 3?  I don't get it. Is it bad that Natalie won based solely on skill and gameplay?

 

What I saw was an attractive older woman and two attractive younger women, one of whom was a kickass warrior princess who recovered from a few setbacks to eventually take the game by the throat and run circles around everybody else. Is that a recognized female reality show archetype or did I just make one up?

 

The other contestants had no interest in her nurturing or her looks

 

What's wrong with Natalie's looks?  She looks great to me and frankly that is part of her appeal.

[Special K]

When Missy and Jaclyn were discussing possibly voting out Natalie, and Missy asked her WWJD (What would Jon do)? and Jaclyn said, "He'd vote out Natalie," with a little knowing smile, I about had a cow.

 

But in the final analysis, it seems that Jaclyn knew that the thing to do was THE OPPOSITE of what Jon would do.  

 

I wonder if, having seen that now, he thought that through, and if it went down with a nice oaky, buttery finish.

ETA:  Natalie is beautiful.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Special K

[blackwing]

I really hope Reed doesn't get invited to a future Heroes and Villains based on his bitchy drama queen speech.  I hate the fact that this show rewards bad behaviour, it just encourages people to make a memorable splash.  Instead of the usual Heroes v. Villains All Stars, I'd rather see returning contestants come back who had generally good gameplay but caught a bad break, whether it be numbers, or getting blindsided, or someone inopportune winning immunity.

 

I really don't need to hear Reed's extremely irritating voice ever again.

 

I do think that Jaclyn should have made her big move and voted out Natalie.  Even Natalie admitted in her final speech that she should have been the one they voted out the last TC.  Jeff did the show of hands thing and it seemed that Keith would have won with 4 votes, with 3 for Missy (Baylor, Natalie, and I'm not sure) and 1 for Jaclyn.  However, I think Jaclyn could have made a more convincing case in FTC against Missy and Keith.  Keith would have destructed at FTC, and Missy didn't get much respect.  Natalie is a good strategist and seems to appreciate good gameplay, so for her not to reward Jaclyn for a big move to take her out seems inconsistent.  Natalie would have wanted the best player to win, and she wouldn't be able to begrudge Jaclyn's move.  Missy had no moves other than agreeing to Nat's plan to vote out Jon.

Edited December 18, 2014 by blackwing

[SimonHumboldt]

I really don't need to hear Reed's extremely irritating voice ever again.

 

And I really don't need to see another split with that thing he does with his hands that looks like a Price Is Right model showing off the Showcase Showdown.

[truthaboutluv]

Fabio was pretty much rewarded for being so clueless.

 

 

That and a lot of people on the jury were pretty mad at Chase for playing the game. There were some real bitter people on that jury. 

[SHOgirl]

Why on earth would Missy ever be friendly to Reed?

For a jury vote?

[fishcakes]

Extremely good finale to what was maybe the second most crapass season ever, after the original Nicaragua. Because of the promos promising one last blindside, I was certain Natalie was going out at 5; it never occurred to me that she would save Jaclyn and boot Baylor, and as nervous as it made me for her going into F3, it really was a smart move because if the F4 had been Missy, Baylor, Natalie, and Keith, and Keith wins final immunity, which given his track record seemed likely, she's screwed. She said she needed to play off Missy vs. Keith as the two threats, but really I think she was playing off Jaclyn vs. Keith. If either of them wins final immunity, she can argue that the other is a bigger threat then herself. Judging by exit interviews, Missy was pretty well-hated by everyone; she was no threat to win anything.  And the minute Natalie said, "did you vote for who I told you to vote for?" I was practically jumping up and down in my chair. Totally unapologetic, in control, badass gameplay. LIKE A BOSS. Dear Natalie: I'm sorry I said "aw, fuck NO," when I heard you were playing this season. You are the best. I even sort of like your sister by proxy now, even though I have no reason to.

 

What's wrong with Natalie's looks?  She looks great to me and frankly that is part of her appeal.

 

I agree. I think she's gorgeous.

 

FTC speeches were predictable. Missy's was basically, "I deserve to win because I have a broken foot, I completely mismanaged my own life, and also, I have a broken foot." Jaclyn's was, "I deserve to win because I did jackshit in the beginning and got saved at the merge because my boyfriend was still in it. Also, I have no uterus." Natalie: "I deserve to win because [points at Missy and Jaclyn] DUH."

 

I get that players are lulled into thinking that their 15 minutes actually mean something to us, the little people, but their "inspirational" stories are always so lame. Like the letter Reed got from the gay Christian who said that he and his father didn't talk until his father watched Survivor and realized that there could be gay Christians. You would think that the father would have been tipped off to that fact by virtue of his son rather than by two strangers on a reality show, so that story is less heartwarming than intended, I think. And Jaclyn's tearful confessional about how she wanted to win the title of Sole Survivor so she could be an inspiration to other women with her condition was a big WTF; what's the takeaway for these women? "Well, I have an incomplete reproductive system but Jaclyn was the Sole Survivor so I can ... something."

 

Regarding Reed's vote, if he had voted for Natalie, leaving Jaclyn and Missy to get one vote each, how would the tie be broken for the $100,000 second-place prize?

 

When Dawn and Sherri tied for second with zero votes apiece (yay!) in Caramoans, Dawn said they split the second- and third-place prize money, and each got $92,500. I really don't see anything wrong with Reed voting to ensure that Jaclyn got second place. If people are supposed to vote for who they think deserved the million and they know that the winner already has enough votes, then I have no problem with them voting to make sure they the person they think played second-best gets the second-place prize. Even if he did it out of spite, it's still valid; the biggest part of the game is getting people to want to give you money. Missy failed at that.

 

Similarly, I didn't mind his pissy speech to Missy, just as I didn't mind Natalie going off on Rocker early in the season. Mainly because I don't like Rocker or Missy and the enemy of my enemy and all that.

 

I don't really think Jaclyn/Missy made a mistake by not voting out Natalie. Keith would've beat them too. I was sorry to see Keith feeling so embarrassed on the reunion -- he kicked ass as one of the biggest underdogs on the season!

 

Yeah, I went from liking to disliking to liking Keith again over the course of the season. If Natalie had gotten voted out, I would have been rooting for a Keith win, just based on his being an underdog and the fact that he wasn't Missy or Jaclyn. I don't know how much stock you can put it the "how would you have voted if the F3 were different" votes at the reunion, but I was still glad to see that when Jaclyn said if she had known Natalie was going to get so many votes she would have kept Keith instead and they did the mock vote, Jaclyn ended up doing worse.

[ksleeve]

Glad Natalie won, she deserved it.

 

Hypothetically speaking:

At Final 5 Tribal, if Jaclyn could somehow catch on to Natalie's plan and guessed Nat may have an idol she was contemplating using on her (I know she didn't know this, she'd have to be incredibly perceptive - which she has shown to be throughout so it's not entirely impossible) Could the votes have gone like this?

 

Baylor, Missy and Keith vote Jaclyn

Natalie votes Baylor

Jaclyn votes Natalie

 

Jaclyn tells Nat she voted the way Nat told her, Natalie used the idol on Jac rendering her safe. Votes stand at 1-1 Nat vs Baylor.

On the re-vote Missy and Keith vote out Nat.

 

This is the only way I see Jaclyn winning at FTC (though I still think Keith might edge her out if he's there)

 

 

[gesundheit]

So who are the all-stars from this season (if any)?

 

Given how much airtime Reed got at the reunion show he seems likely. I'd also say the self professed genius Jeremy. That's about it.

 

Keith, maybe?

 

 

 Jaclyn's was, "I deserve to win because I did jackshit in the beginning and got saved at the merge because my boyfriend was still in it. Also, I have no uterus." 

Well, I've lost a good bit of the iced tea I was drinking. Thank you!

 

I get that players are lulled into thinking that their 15 minutes actually mean something to us, the little people, but their "inspirational" stories are always so lame. Like the letter Reed got from the gay Christian who said that he and his father didn't talk until his father watched Survivor and realized that there could be gay Christians. You would think that the father would have been tipped off to that fact by virtue of his son rather than by two strangers on a reality show, so that story is less heartwarming than intended, I think.

Well, it's depressing that that's the reality, but it's not that unusual. It's why visibility matters a LOT.

 

 

 And Jaclyn's tearful confessional about how she wanted to win the title of Sole Survivor so she could be an inspiration to other women with her condition was a big WTF; what's the takeaway for these women? "Well, I have an incomplete reproductive system but Jaclyn was the Sole Survivor so I can ... something."

Just think of all the barren girls out there who, had she won, would have realized that they, too, could go on a reality show and win a million dollars so they could afford to buy a really expensive baby!!!

Edited December 18, 2014 by gesundheit

[Special K]

 

Missy's was basically, "I deserve to win because I have a broken foot, I completely mismanaged my own life, and also, I have a broken foot." Jaclyn's was, "I deserve to win because I did jackshit in the beginning and got saved at the merge because my boyfriend was still in it. Also, I have no uterus." Natalie: "I deserve to win because [points at Missy and Jaclyn] DUH."

 

Yup.  In a beautiful little nutshell.

[meep.meep]

Woo Hoo Natalie!  That's playing the game!  I was disappointed that there wasn't a flurry of "Twinnie!  Twinnie!" coming from the upper left corner of the jury when her win was announced.

 

If Jeff has to go into the audience, I'd rather he asked questions, or posed situations, like he did last night, rather than interview Rob Mariano again and again.  I'd rather see him interview all the contestants first.