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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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For the longest time, I wanted the show to end with a curse like the first season. But we've had four curses now, and what the show centered around has become nothing more than a convenient plot device. When you get to the fifth curse, the novelty tends to rub off. A lot. This curse is especially stupid because:

* Regina, Snow, Charming, Zelena, Hook and Emma aren't even there. They're all off doing their own things. They're not even in Cursed!Storybrooke.
* Cursed personalities are being forgone yet again, for the most part.
* It's a redux of the S4 and S5 finales. Emma is locked up, Henry is traveling America, some of the fairy tale characters are sent to a magical realm, and Rumple is caught in yet another struggle for power.
* It's a cheap way to combine past seasons into a half-assed series finale. 

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It sure sounds like from the TVLine Facebook chat that the reporter who regularly covers the show and knew the plans for Season 7 has no clue what might happen now.  He said that Emma was still supposed to be the main character for Season 7.  Which makes me think the new guy really is adult Henry.  Do they just leave off the last 2 minutes of the episode (presumably when the new character was to be introduced) and end the series now? 

(edited)
3 hours ago, Souris said:

Apparently Matt Mitovich also said in his Facebook Live that Jen/Emma was supposed to be a key part of the reboot. So that wouldn't fit for either a prequel or Wishverse reboot. He also said he's interviewing Jen later today.

I don't how much of this was based on A&E speak. I have a hard time believing they planned to give Emma a pivotal role in the reboot, considering how they underutilized her in S6, and S6 was supposed to be wrapping up the Show as we know it. With her contract up, A&E and Dungey had to have known there was at least a 50% chance she wouldn't sign back on. If they failed to plan for that contingency, and in fact reduced her scenes in several 6B episodes, and also gave her poor material to work with, thus giving her less motivation to renew her contract, that's on them.

Edited by Rumsy4
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Quote

The one Season 7 episode you have promised to return for, is it necessarily the premiere? Or could it come later down the line?
I believe it’s the season premiere; I can’t remember contractually if it was slotted as exactly that, but I believe it’s the season premiere.

 

Link

Yeah...I would spend the entire summer terrified about what happens in the premiere. No thanks. 

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The thing is I don't think that Jen was given a short shrift this season.  She's been able to do quite a few side projects as a result of a reduced workload on Once.  And those projects kept her in LA which she considers home.  Yes, I wish Emma had more screen time but I think it's possible that Jen asked for and was given a smaller role this season.  Just like Josh and Ginny were to promote their movie and have time with their new baby.

From her Tvline interview she says she let A&E know her decision around the time they were writing the finale.  Which would've been late February or March?  This jives with the timing we found out about the Charmings leaving.  She also apologized for the timing of the announcement because the story had been leaked and they wanted to get out ahead of it.

It also sounds like nothing could've persuaded her to stay.  She wants a personal life and feels like she can only have that in LA or NyC.

The one episode she's negotiated to do is the season 7 premiere...

17 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

It also sounds like nothing could've persuaded her to stay.  She wants a personal life and feels like she can only have that in LA or NyC.

That is likely PR speak. It's hard to know the real reasons behind actor decisions to leave a show. To me it seems obvious that A&E's crap writing and treatment of Emma this season made Jen decide to leave. But none of us can really know. 

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(edited)
9 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

That is likely PR speak. It's hard to know the real reasons behind actor decisions to leave a show. To me it seems obvious that A&E's crap writing and treatment of Emma this season made Jen decide to leave. But none of us can really know. 

 
 

It's probably a combination of many factors. Jennifer is in her thirties and probably wants to start a family soon, and she feels like she can't do that in Vancouver. Life is short, and a job is only a job, so I respect her decision for wanting to focus on herself for a little bit and be closer to friends and family. And her decision to do that was probably made easier by the fact that Emma wasn't getting very good story lines anymore, Emma's screen time was being reduced, and Jen knew her character was going to end the way she wanted her to—with a happy ending. All those factors together make an exit seem like a really good idea.

Edited by Curio
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Can I just say how completely uninteresting the finale sounds? How do they even expect a S7 to work? They are creatively bankrupt and continue to trot out the same story time after time. Jen announcing her departure is so disappointing because Emma and her story were what kept me tuned in and seeing the story go on without her will make for a very unsatisfying finale no matter how it ends. This is especially true if Colin is continuing.

Should I even watch this finale? Should I care? The show I used to adore is going out on a whimper and it makes me so incredibly sad.

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34 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

That is likely PR speak. It's hard to know the real reasons behind actor decisions to leave a show. To me it seems obvious that A&E's crap writing and treatment of Emma this season made Jen decide to leave. But none of us can really know. 

I would agree if this is the first time we've heard her say something like this. But we've heard her talk about not liking Vancouver for a long time. It's been no secret that she spends her weekends in LA or NYC and has apartments in both places. She wasn't like Colin, who lived in Vancouver full time and had his family there with him. I don't know if she wants to start a family or get married or any of that as much as she just wants to be where she wants to be and she just doesn't consider Vancouver home. At some point, that has to wear on you. Perhaps she just felt like this would be the natural end point for Emma and it worked well with her decision to get back to her LA/NYC life.

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(edited)

It is a show about Hope... How it can be a deceiving bitch that lies to you, while crushes your heart with a smile on its face. 

Better yet, I'd rather watch Hope, little Mack's daughter in Agents of Shield, that Hope is a real (not exactly) sweet option that promises to be better than OUAT moto. 

Edited by justmythoughts
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1 hour ago, scenicbyway said:

The thing is I don't think that Jen was given a short shrift this season.  She's been able to do quite a few side projects as a result of a reduced workload on Once.  And those projects kept her in LA which she considers home.  Yes, I wish Emma had more screen time but I think it's possible that Jen asked for and was given a smaller role this season.  Just like Josh and Ginny were to promote their movie and have time with their new baby.

 

The thing for me is the chicken and egg argument. Did she decide to do other work because her role was slowly being reduced (maybe not always in screen time but quality) or did she want to do other work and A & E responded with less screen-time this season.  IMO, she responded to the quality of the work and went looking for more interesting projects.

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I doubt that. A&E have a track record of being accommodating to the actors as needed. Robert got time off for Trainspotting press. They juggled the schedule so Colin could get some time off for Carrie Pilby. And as much as we complain about the lack of Snowing, part of that was due to Josh and Ginny asking for reduced time so they could spend it with their kids. I know we want to jump on A&E for their failures -- and there were definitely failures -- but they've been pretty supportive of actor requests to get time off for various other things. Why wouldn't they do the same for JMo if she wanted some longer weekends in LA to edit the movie she directed?

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2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I don't how much of this was based on A&E speak. I have a hard time believing they planned to give Emma a pivotal role in the reboot, considering how they underutilized her in S6, and S6 was supposed to be wrapping up the Show as we know it. With her contract up, A&E and Dungey had to have known there was at least a 50% chance she wouldn't sign back on. If they failed to plan for that contingency, and in fact reduced her scenes in several 6B episodes, and also gave her poor material to work with, thus giving her less motivation to renew her contract, that's on them.

Exactly--they've pulled a bait and switch like the "Season of Snowing," the "Captain Swan Adventure," and the "Emma in her bug helping people" how many times? 

I know that what is said in interviews is likely different than what is said in show meetings, but A&E have a show in their heads that is not ending up on-screen.  It would not surprise me at all if they've been distracted by squirrels more than once after telling the actors "This exciting storyline is happening for your character!"  Take a look at what happened with Will Scarlett and his performer.

It's easy for them to say, now, that it would have been a reboot about Emma.  But it would have been about Emma for the 32.5 seconds it takes them to be distracted by their new villain idea and whatever they come up with for Regina. 

Emma doesn't interest them.  They won't willingly write an entire season focused on her.

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(edited)

It is possible that she might just think the character has run its course with the original character arc they had planned.  She is in a good place with her family, has found some peace relating to her childhood, and married a great love.  She might simply feel this is a good place to end it for Emma, rather than fabricate some new drama between her and Hook or be stuck as the boring happily married couple who is just a talk-to for the other characters like Snow has been the last two years.  

Six years is also a long time to live in a place you might like, but really don't consider home.  I would not be surprised if that is one of the reasons Josh and Ginny aren't continuing (if they had a choice), because they want to spend more time at their home now that the boys are getting older.

Edited by CCTC
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1 minute ago, CCTC said:

It is possible that she might just think the character has run its course with the original character arc they had planned.  She is in a good place with her family, has found some peace relating to her childhood, and married a great love.  She might simply feel this is a good place to end it for Emma, rather than fabricate some new drama between her and Hook or be stuck as the boring happily married couple who is just a talk-to for the other characters like Snow has been the last two years.  

Absolutely! Jen seems very happy with where Emma ends up. And she was clearly ready to do other projects since she's already been doing them on the side and has new things planned for the future.

It just would've been nice to know she wouldn't be coming back weeks ago.  The wedding could still be enjoyed without the rug being pulled out 12 hours later.

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Bless Jen for saying she was contracted only for the season premiere. A&E probably would've baited that she might show up the whole rest of the season. They even tried that already with their interviews (done before Jen posted her note), with "That doesn't mean you won't see your Savior again!" She was honest with the fans and wouldn't let herself be used as bait.

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Can you tease a little about how Belle is going to feel about what Rumple did, because he did something bad, but he did it in the name of saving their son? Is she going to be a little bit torn about that?

Kitsis: I think she is. I think she’s understanding. When you have your kid, sometimes it clouds your judgement. You want to do what’s best for them… Belle and Rumple are going to be tested, and everything that they ever wanted is going to be very temptingly close for Rumple. But like everything, it comes with a price.

Really? Belle understands Rumpel being a part of destroying all the realms because it was for Gideon? She doesn't care about her father or her friends? She doesn't notice that Rumpel didn't even give a fuck about his own grandson in this equation? It's just rage inducing.

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I'm with everybody that thinks the show should be cancelled.

Speaking of the potential S7 I can think of ways they will explain Emma's absence post premiere. We could be getting a TVD situation although I don't see them dedicating a storyline to a person that may not agree to appear more. Though I think JMO would not be opposed to appearing as Emma again she just needs space. I hope that if a S7 happens she can make more than one appearance.

I think the one scenario I can rule out IMO is death. Emma is not going to die in the season premiere. Talk about a surefire way to turn off your audience to the rest of the season within the premere. The reboot would be done before it started.

Realistically I think she'll just pass on the mantel to either Andrew or little girls character to be the new savior. Also maybe in the premiere she tells Killian she's pregnant. So maybe she'll come back for babies birth or something.

IDK I'm just coming up with ideas but I know a death seems very unlikely.

Is it possible there's something more exciting in the finale, and it was filmed in studio? I'm just having trouble accepting that the show as we know it will end with a repetitive fight in the street, where Emma does all the fighting and everyone else stands around. That can't really be the big climactic battle they've been building toward for 6 seasons, can it?

I hope we at least get a Rumple death to give the finale some kind of oomph. And what about Regina's ending? I always hoped that Regina would sacrifice herself to save Snow, but of course knew that would never happen. But if this really could be the last episode ever, A&E must have planned for her to get a lot of the spotlight. Or were they so confident that the show would be renewed that they felt no need to give a swan song to characters they plan to use in the reboot? Not that I want any focus on Regina in the finale...I would love for her to take a backseat to the other characters and to just have a lowkey happy ending with Zelena.

As for Snow and Charming's ending...them ending up living happily ever after on a farm with baby Snowflake is just sort of...meh.

Does anyone think it's possible that Emma finds out she's pregnant in the finale? Probably just wishful thinking, but it would be a nice bookend for her character. Then if the show does get picked up for another season, one of the new characters could be Emma and Hook's child, and the show could focus on Hook and the child reuniting and then trying to get back to Emma. But that doesn't seem very likely, given that Jennifer Morrison is only signed on for the S7 premiere, not finale. Unless the plan would be to kill Emma in the premiere, but I refuse to entertain that as a possibility. 

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2 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

They could always do a Flashforward in the first episode and then tell the story across the season as to why x,y,z happened to get to the point in the Premiere? 

Well that means Emma is okay in the FF. That could work.  Maybe it's Emma reading the next book to a CS child lol.  IDK, I just don't think it's as doom and gloom as people suspect it would be. I mean we're losing a lot of characters.

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

 

Maybe we get Teenage Emma or Child Emma full-time?

I think what that means is the S7 premiere and probably more than that. I know JMO said she's only contracted for one. That's just ATM, things can change between now and July. 

I could see them asking her to come back for a couple more episodes down the line. It just seems like she needs a break. 

However that interview did not appear like the door was closed permanently.  I don't think we'll only see Emma in the S7 premiere.

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2 hours ago, cappoe said:

I think what that means is the S7 premiere and probably more than that. I know JMO said she's only contracted for one. That's just ATM, things can change between now and July. 

I could see them asking her to come back for a couple more episodes down the line. It just seems like she needs a break. 

However that interview did not appear like the door was closed permanently.  I don't think we'll only see Emma in the S7 premiere.

Reading Jenn's interviews, I had quite the opposite impresion. I seriously doubt she would come back for more than the premiere. 

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(edited)
43 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Reading Jenn's interviews, I had quite the opposite impresion. I seriously doubt she would come back for more than the premiere. 

She does seem to be clearly drawing a very bright line with her agreement to do one (and only one) episode,  I'll admit!  I've often wondered how she keeps the work schedule she does. If she feels it's time to focus more on her life and family rather than work, then more power to her.

Edited by OnceUponAJen
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 Honestly,  if Jen is done.   I think that if there was a next season that ABC should honestly just try to sign the entire cast for a limited four or five episode season to just solidify everyone's happy ending and solving whatever backdoor plot that they insist on throwing into the finale.  Continuing on without half the cast just doesn't make any sense and none of the fans are going to want to watch it except for Hook being there.

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(edited)

Until we have some official confirmation, I would take all this with a grain of salt, especially the info regarding Carlyle. These are the actors the producers wanted to keep but we don't know what kind of offer they made them and what kind of deal they have reached. It can be full time, or part time, or just a few episode that serve as a bridge to the new story and characters. 

It also depends on how much the original plan have changed with Jenn's decision to leave. 

Edited by RadioGirl27
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9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Sounds like they're starting Villains Anonymous. How the heck do you have Hook without Emma, and Rumple without Belle?

You kill them off.  If Jen is only contracted for the Season Premiere, you get rid of Emma in the premiere, and Hook regresses back to his villainous ways?  Who knows if Belle is even around at this point since the Finale synopsis seems to point to her being missing.

This sounds like an incredibly dumb idea.  It's basically a new show with an old name.  I get that they have a lot invested but perhaps the network should've officially renewed the show and negotiated contracts earlier.  I'm still kind of flummoxed that Jen would only sign on for one episode.  They could've brought her back for 3 episodes the premiere, somewhere mid season and the finale and been done with it.  I think what's happened is that they've canceled all their new shows and Once is established and reliable and they have been able to cut the budget by losing some cast and they want to keep it.  But it's extremely difficult without the character the show was built around.  Especially with no build up to her exit.

It also looks to be a shortened season anyway with American Idol coming to ABC.

The thing is, Hook and Regina tolerate each other for the sake of the Charmings.  Hook and Rumple hate each other, so in what universe does a show about the three of them (an adult Henry?) work?

4 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Until we have some official confirmation, I would take all this with a grain of salt, especially the info regarding Carlyle. These are the actors the producers wanted to keep but we don't know what kind of offer they made them and what kind of deal they have reached. It can be full time, or part time, or just a few episode that serve as a bridge to the new story and characters. 

It also depends on how much the original plan have changed with Jenn's decision to leave. 

Exactly.  What I think is confusing is that reporters that were on set during the filming of the wedding thought up until they got the press release from Jenn and the network that Emma was still the central character in Season 7, they seemed as surprised by the news as the audience.  But Jenn said she told A&E as soon as she made a decision which she thought was when they were beginning to write the finale which would've been Feb or March.  Surely, they've been putting a new plan in place before last weekend?  It also sounds like they knew about renewal 2 months ago but couldn't say anything.  So if the show does get cancelled, it could look in part that it was because Jen decided to leave, when its really because the ratings have tanked.

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I have a thought about the wish realm idea.

Hook is still there and still wants his revenge now that the Dark One is loose. While EQ and Robin are getting to know one another in another part of the kingdom he is seeking the dagger. He kills Rumple and becomes the DO, de ages himself back to devilishly handsome. Colin wants to play a villain. EQ and Robin are the romantic leads fighting against this new Dark One and if this takes place a few years later then the new guy is Henry. Not sure how he fits in, maybe sides with the new DO? 

The old EQ can come out to play at some point also.

All the existing guest stars still fit. The DO could even cast a curse to rip everyone from the land at some point, or manipulate someone to.

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There are certainly ways they can set up this reboot to not affect the happy endings of "our" characters. The question is will they?

I'm just not sure how Jen being in the season premiere will work if the reboot is set in another realm. Why would they need her at all if it's all taking place in another realm/time? That detail is the one that makes me worry that the reboot is in our time -- and somehow all the heroes are gone and it's all villains (Hook has been reverted) -- and they'll use the premiere simply to get rid of Emma permanently (unless Jen agrees to come back for an ep or two at a later date, which is far from a sure thing). Jen seemed pretty darn adamant about it being the one ep and the one ep only.

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(edited)

This is from one of Jenn's interviews, the one fron Deadline:

Quote

“It just felt like everything had come to a really nice place for Emma, and (Horowitz and Kitsis) had set themselves up to really revamp the show with new people in a really interesting creative way,” Morrison said. “It felt like time for me to come home.”

If this is true, maybe the ones remaining (at least Rumple and Hook) are just going to be part time. I can see ABC and A&E using them as a way to lure viewes but using them scarcely. That gives them free time to do other things but also a bit of stability. We are treating this as if Hook, Regina and Rumple are going to be the leads, but we really don't know.

Edited by RadioGirl27

What are some examples of other shows that have rebooted in their final season? I've seen shows add a new character or kill off a main one (DS9, for example), but I'm not accustomed to drastic cast changes, a new story, etc. Well, unless it's a revival on Netflix that's released years later. Has this idea ever functioned?

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

What are some examples of other shows that have rebooted in their final season?

The X-Files had an almost all-new cast. I guess it was more or less the same show, in that it was FBI agents investigating supernatural things, but with all-new protagonists, allies, and even villains. Angel sort of rebooted in the final season, changing the setting and situation, but they still had mostly the same cast. British series often have to keep rebooting because of cast leaving, since they don't seem to tie up actors in multi-year contracts. The British version of Primeval more or less rebooted a few times, so that by the last season they barely had the same cast, and a lot of the big-picture stuff had changed.

Really, with this show, they might be better off truly considering it a spinoff or sequel rather than a reboot of the same series. There would be financial and promotional benefits.

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1 hour ago, SiobhanJW said:

Maybe they are doing an "American Horror Story" type thing where the remaining regulars will all be playing different characters in the reboot? 

Im still not sure how Emma fits in for the first episode? Maybe she's reading stories to CS kid? 

Agreed, that this would be one of the only ways to go..I would like to see Lana play something other then Camp Evil Queen or Teary Eye Regina..maybe a villainous who has some depth? (with these writers..hahahahaha....) I think that this would also be the only way to keep the Rumpel actor who is understandably bored by Gold/Rump, and I can't see them ripping Hook away from Emma without their fans going absolutely ballistic, and since they seem to be the only people left to turn out the lights, that would be a really dumb move.

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(edited)
6 hours ago, Souris said:

There are certainly ways they can set up this reboot to not affect the happy endings of "our" characters. The question is will they?

I'm just not sure how Jen being in the season premiere will work if the reboot is set in another realm. Why would they need her at all if it's all taking place in another realm/time? That detail is the one that makes me worry that the reboot is in our time -- and somehow all the heroes are gone and it's all villains (Hook has been reverted) -- and they'll use the premiere simply to get rid of Emma permanently (unless Jen agrees to come back for an ep or two at a later date, which is far from a sure thing). Jen seemed pretty darn adamant about it being the one ep and the one ep only.

I don't think they will get rid of JMO permanently. At all. I think if there's one thing we can be sure of is whatever happens in S7 will not ruin CS, Emma, or the last 6 seasons.

There's plenty of ways they can go about this to not ruin anything and Emma can just be mentioned in dialogue.

One thing is for sure Adam and Eddy will not be able to hide things from the fans. For one screeners for the premiere will be out before it aires. So we'll know what's going on with Emma, CS , etc in S7.

I think if they have something lined up for JMO in the premiere then it's gotta be a storyline set up for the season and maybe JMO will come back for more episodes towards the end of the season/series.

Maybe it's wishful thinking but I don't think JMO's only episode will be the season premiere. That's just all she can promise now because she doesn't know what the future holds for her.

I'm sure if they tell her that this is the last season she won't have an issue coming back for a couple episodes near the end to wrap everything up.

Edited by cappoe

I think the one-episode commitment is mostly about ABC wanting to keep their options open because the they haven't decided on the specifics of what is happening in the season opener episode yet. Having that contractual commitment from Morrison doesn't mean that the network has to use her. They can just pay her whatever was agreed upon and do something else.

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