Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Promo photos for the Supergirl crossover are out, BTW.

[zannej]

Thanks, Trini. I wish I could bring myself to care about the Supergirl crossover. To be perfectly honest, I found Superman to be a rather boring character (although I loved Christopher Reeves and found the Lois and Clark show entertaining). Supergirl was even more boring to me. I just never really cared for her. I mean, I know she was a sort of love interest for Brainiac 5 (aka Qerl Dox), but beyond that, *yawn*. Plus they kept changing her origins, name, etc so much that it just lost me. They even replaced her with Andromeda (Laurel Gand) in at least one iteration of Legion of SuperHeroes.

Ahh. Kara is in an alternate universe. Interesting.

Oh wow. Callista Flockhart looks good!

[Ruby25]

I don't care about this crossover either. I gave up on Supergirl after the first few episodes- I guess I'll watch this one, but I'm annoyed at all crossovers, just because they're publicity stunts at the core. I can tell you right now it will have nothing to do with The Flash and affect Barry on his own show in no way whatsoever.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Ruby25

[Trini]

I don't care about this crossover either. I gave up on Supergirl after the first few episodes- I guess I'll watch this one, but I'm annoyed at all crossovers, just because they're publicity stunts at the core. I can tell you right now it will have nothing to do with The Flash and effect Barry on his own show in no way whatsoever.

 

True; but if this results in a ratings bump for either show, I bet they'll revisit it or expand on it next season.

[Oscirus]

So to sum it up,  Barry is still doing dumb stuff that he shouldn't be doing while his enablers, I mean friends and family members who should know better, encourage him and the writers are finally acknowledging that Iris's fiancée died so that she can date her hawt boss.

 

At least they addressed the one complaint about Iris not dating any men of color. :eyes

 

The Supergirl crossover actually seems promising. I'm not going to watch it but at least the synopsis makes sense.

 

If supergirl ever gets cacelled off cbs, it's so coming to CW so that we can be inundated with more crossovers. So hopefully this crossover has the desired effect.

 

 

 

 

[cambridgeguy]

 

I don't care about this crossover either. I gave up on Supergirl after the first few episodes- I guess I'll watch this one, but I'm annoyed at all crossovers, just because they're publicity stunts at the core. I can tell you right now it will have nothing to do with The Flash and affect Barry on his own show in no way whatsoever.

There is nothing wrong with either show getting some extra press.  X meets Y is a question that always comes up regardless of how much sense it makes so why not have some fun with it.  This crossover not affecting Barry is a good thing since his major character development should happen on his own show, not when he's a special guest star somewhere else.  They do need to make sure that Supergirl crossing over is virtually impossible since between her and Barry they can handle almost any threat in the Arrowverse without breaking a sweat.

 

Besides, a big complaint about crossovers is that they suck away time from existing characters.  That won't happen on the Flash so nobody can say that focusing on a Supergirl visit is giving "insert character here" the shaft.

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello:

Question: Can we get some juicy spoilers on the Flash/Supergirl crossover? —Cordell

Ausiello: Look (or listen?) for shout-outs to Cisco, Caitlin, S.T.A.R. Labs and Green Arrow in the March 28 event.

[rogueprinzess]

Some pics from the upcoming episode that was directed by Kevin Smith. Iris is wearing her green coat again...

[BkWurm1]

There is nothing wrong with either show getting some extra press.  X meets Y is a question that always comes up regardless of how much sense it makes so why not have some fun with it.  This crossover not affecting Barry is a good thing since his major character development should happen on his own show, not when he's a special guest star somewhere else.  They do need to make sure that Supergirl crossing over is virtually impossible since between her and Barry they can handle almost any threat in the Arrowverse without breaking a sweat.

 

Besides, a big complaint about crossovers is that they suck away time from existing characters.  That won't happen on the Flash so nobody can say that focusing on a Supergirl visit is giving "insert character here" the shaft.

The simple solution to Supergirl crossing over into the Flarrowverse is to temporarily depower her.  That's getting way ahead of the game though.  The crossover on Supergirl looks like a lot of fun and though Supergirl is in general a bright, not to serious show, it lacks fun and Barry is clearly going to bring the fun.  Just from the promo clip you can tell they have a playful chemistry.  Of course she's currently hung up on Jimmy Olsen so no worries there. 

[phoenics]

I'm so not interested in this crossover. At least it will have little to no impact on this show.

[Trini]

More info on how the Supergirl episode fits into Flash's timeline and end of season teases:

Should Flash fans worry about being “lost” if they miss the Supergirl crossover? Will it be referenced on The Flash? —Amanda

 

The events of Monday’s #SuperFlash event will be referenced on The Flash, thought “a little more subtly than we were going to, initially,” says EP Greg Berlanti. Also, the episodes “kind of flip order” in that Barry’s unplanned trip is set up in the Flash episode that airs the day after his Supergirl appearance. “We’re much better at coordinating the viewing patterns when we’re crossing over on the same network,” Berlanti admits. “But when [it’s folded into The Flash], people will get it.”

Any Supergirl scoop? Perhaps for the subsequent Flash episode? —Amy

 

If you, as I am, wonder if Barry’s unexpected arrival in National City from another universe means that The Flash’s universe has its own Kara… well, exec producer Andrew Kreisberg wonders, as well. “We hadn’t [considered that],” he shared, when asked by TVLine about the possibility. “Any Kara that exists on Earth-1 would also have to have been an alien — it can’t just be ‘Kara Danvers from Poughkeepsie.’ But that’s the fun of the multiverse. We have a really, exciting, fun doppelganger coming up in the penultimate episode of Flash that we haven’t announced yet that’s another [instance] of, ‘That’ll be really cool.’” In other news, I am hearing that Flash fans will see John Wesley Shipp’s Henry Allen again before the season is up.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Trini

[zannej]

Looks like Queen Bee is making an appearance over on Arrow next week. So, she apparently escape from ARGUS or wherever she was being held. Also, Violett Beane mentioned that she was in an episode being directed by Kevin Smith so either she returns or we just see whatever is going on with her in Opal City (if she made it to Opal City).

What I'd like to see is that despite her "don't look for me" line to Harry, is that he looked for her remotely so he would at least know where she is to know that she is safe.

Still not all that interested in the Supergirl thing, but I will try to watch it if I can.

[CabotCove]

No wondercon trailer?

[Ruby25]

I feel like they haven't been promoting ANYTHING for The Flash lately. They better give us something good in the weeks before the last six episodes.

[zannej]

Did anyone else see that Violett Beane was in the episode Kevin Smith directed? I wonder if Jesse returns to Central City or if they just show whatever is happening with her out in Opal City.

 

I'm hoping they will do one of those behind-the-scenes type things for the next episode so they can talk about the wraith and show us some sneak peeks.

[Trini]

It seems the photo of  the cover page of #2.21 has been taken down from Smith's Instagram, but from it you could make out some of the names of the actors, and it seems Henry and Nora Allen, and Girder show up. So either there are flashbacks, or they are the Earth-2 versions.

[Trini]

Nevermind, found it.

[missysays]

Not sure where to talk about this...but I love how the Barry on Supergirl all of a sudden has his smarts back. I know he's got Cisco, Caitlyn, and Wells but there he's inventing things super buffered ear buds and writing algorithms that can hone in on electrical power all in one episode. Wish he could get a little of that mojo back on his own show.

Edited March 29, 2016 by missysays

[Trini]

Responding in the Barry Allen thread.

[Ruby25]

I liked Barry a lot in the crossover episode- he was more like his season one self.

 

They need to remember this for Season 3, imo. I want to see the happy, joyful Barry again, and on a permanent basis. No more of this "weight of the world," Oliver Queen-lite kind of stuff. That's the opposite of what he's supposed to be.

 

Also, they need to shoot more scenes in daylight. That was SUCH a nice change, seeing him in the sun. I know it's not sunny a lot in Vancouver, but he fights at night too much, imo.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ruby25

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The Barry and Barry+Kara parts were pretty good in the Supergirl/Flash x-over last night, as well as Cat Grant's digs [the CW one was glorious!]... but the rest?  Very CW-esque.  It was all about the relationship drama between Kara & James Olson, and some between Winn & Banshee lady.  Ugh.  If I want that crap, I'll watch Arrow.

 

I really do question the writers of both Flash and now Supergirl, though, lately.  Why even bother having Barry wear the cowl if you're just gonna have him whip it off each time he's not running around?  Giving away your identity when you are in a place you know nothing about - literally just a couple minutes after having arrived - just doesn't seem like either a smart or logical thing to do, but what do I know?

[quarks]

 

I really do question the writers of both Flash and now Supergirl, though, lately.  Why even bother having Barry wear the cowl if you're just gonna have him whip it off each time he's not running around?  Giving away your identity when you are in a place you know nothing about - literally just a couple minutes after having arrived - just doesn't seem like either a smart or logical thing to do, but what do I know?

 

Barry just seems to be in the habit of revealing himself to anyone else in a costume, but in this particular case, I thought he pulled off the cowl only after he realized that he wasn't on his own world anyway, so it didn't matter if people knew his not all that secret identity. It's not as if he's been trying too hard to keep it a secret from anyone other than women he dates or wants to date.

 

Of course, he also pulled off his mask before checking to see if Supergirl's world had any Barry Allens who might possibly have a problem if someone assumed that they, too, could run very very fast.

[zannej]

The dialog, line delivery, and relationship drama on the Supergirl episode were pretty horrid. I pretty much only liked Cat Grant and Barry. Mind you, Kara was adorkable, but I just found it hard to take anyone other than Cat seriously. I felt like I was watching a student film or something. It was just that bad. I won't be watching that show again.

 

I wish the writers on The Flash would have Barry be that mature and intelligent-- and actually have him being the one giving pep talks for a change. Although he lost points for running in circles around Live Wire and throwing lightning at her. That was stupid.

 

Glad the crossover is done for now. Now I remember how much I hated crossovers in the comic books-- although part of that was because I would have to buy the extra comics to see what happened.

[Trini]

No episode description yet (weird.), but photos are out for "Versus Zoom". So they found a way to pull Zoom over to Earth-1, or did he find his own way back?

 

https://youtu.be/VmwADoRz1Lk

[zannej]

My guess is that since Barry made it to the earth with Kara Danvers, he is the one who has figured out how to travel to Earth2. He might not have opened a portal, but he might now be able to travel to different dimensions.

[CabotCove]

https://twitter.com/canadagraphs?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

 

 

Earth 2 Laurel? Time travel? Flashback?

Edited April 1, 2016 by WildcardC

[Ruby25]

Probably E2. She might be a villain.

 

I think the show should get rid of Caitlin. I can't see any purpose to her character anymore. They tie her to a guy who dies every year, once the Zoom thing is done, what do they do with her? Turn her into Killer Frost on E1? I doubt it.

 

Plus, she really just doesn't bring much of anything to the show. Cisco feels far more essential as a supporting character, comic relief, friend, etc.

 

I know it's hard to see them getting rid of one of only two female regulars, but they could replace her with someone like Jesse (a far better actress already and potential love interest for Wally), or even Linda, who's supposed to be Wally's real love in the comics.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ruby25

[bettername2come]

Turn her into Killer Frost on E1?

 

I think turning her into a non-evil Killer Frost would be the best way to go. Danielle seemed to have fun with the role and it lets her get a little more dimension beyond "why do my boyfriends keep dying horribly?" I also think there would be a certain balance to all three members of Original Team Flash being metahuman in comparison to all three Original Team Flash members becoming metahuman. And it would maintain the useful doctor role she plays, although honestly I think she's been more useful on Arrow where she created the Mirakuru antidote and saved Lyla's life. 

 

I like the idea of Black Canary being evil on Earth-2 especially if they went with her actually being metahuman. And I enjoyed her scenes with Cisco last year. One of the rare cases where I actually liked Laurel.

[phoenics]

Wait - former? Did they really kill off LL on Arrow? I haven't watched, so I dunno - but did they?

[bettername2come]

Wait - former? Did they really kill off LL on Arrow? I haven't watched, so I dunno - but did they?

No

but there are apparently pictures of a grave with Dinah Laurel Lance on it.

[driedfruit]

I think turning her into a non-evil Killer Frost would be the best way to go. 

 

What's the point? Bag cgi and an awful wig? Unless they give her a good villain arc and send her packing, Killer Frost being a regular feature is too expensive to be worth keeping her. And Flash is way too powerful to require a team of metas. This isn't a cartoon, they can't afford to regularly feature epic showdowns they'll require for a meta team to make sense.

Edited April 1, 2016 by driedfruit

[CabotCove]

Unless they give her a good villain arc and send her packing, Killer Frost being a regular feature is too expensive to be worth keeping her.

 

How do you know its expensive?

 

Probably E2. She might be a villain.

 

I would be underwhelmed if they did that. Caitlin, Cisco, Ronnie turned out to be villains on E2, its just too repetitive for everyone to turn out to be a villain. Barry wasnt a villain but CSI, so not every E2 character need to be an evil version or too different from their E1 self. IMO.

 

 

Turn her into Killer Frost on E1? I doubt it.

 

I dont know what they will do with E1 Catlin. I liked E2 KilleFrost, I think she should be send to Legends of Tomorrow for next season . Firestorm her arch nemesis is there.  

Edited April 2, 2016 by WildcardC

[Primal Slayer]

 

Honestly, it is a little tiring that everyone on E2 who isn't Barry has to be evil if they have powers.

[CabotCove]

^well you beat me too it

 

Nevermind

Edited April 2, 2016 by WildcardC

[bettername2come]

Cool outfit, though.

[driedfruit]

How do you know its expensive?

 

Logic? Unless they downgrade her to recurring it's not feasible to keep a full-body transformation meta for 23eps/season. They couldn't even afford to give Jay speedster powers and had to retcon him as Zoom lol. 

[foreverevolving]

While it is tiring, in the case of Laurel/KC it is probably the best option in terms of the actress acting abilities. She plays evil mean girl far better than the hero good girl next door type of characters (which is part of the reason Laurel Lance on Arrow failed- the actress acting abilities).

[Jenesis]

Some pics from the upcoming episode that was directed by Kevin Smith. Iris is wearing her green coat again...

With their clothes and the lake in the background, it looks like they go back to that day Barry erased from existence, when Cisco died and Iris chose Barry.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

(which is part of the reason Laurel Lance on Arrow failed- the actress acting abilities).

 

She didn't fail, IMO.  She acted out the script she was given.  Almost nobody wants to look at the real culprit of LL/KC's problems in Arrow [esp. in S2]; and that being she could only work with the script and direction she was given. 

 

Just like the script & direction is now (& has been for almost two seasons) failing FS/EBR, on a horrific level of epic proportions.

[foreverevolving]

Look, Arrow writing in general is fairly mediocre (always have been), and yet every single cast member has managed to take some of the worse lines ever written on this show and transcend above it (hack even CH have managed to do it), every member except KC. Imo, she has very limited acting range, and that range does not include the type of character Laurel Lance is supposed to be in terms of personality. in other words: I think KC was simply miscast, and I say this after watching some of her past work, I really do think she would have done far better in a role like Helena.

 

And yes I agree the direction in S03 for Felicity was pretty bad for the most part, and S04 has been a 50/50 shot- it was great the first half but from the second Oliver found out about his son he just went terribly wrong, and yet EBR seems to manage to raise above the terrible storyline and dialogue.

 

but all of this is besides the point,

I'm glad that KC is getting to have her character have her swan song in the flarrow universe having a personality that is far more in line to the actress acting range.

Edited April 3, 2016 by scarynikki12
Discussing non-Flash spoilers

[Trini]

With their clothes and the lake in the background, it looks like they go back to that day Barry erased from existence, when Cisco died and Iris chose Barry.

 

Well, they didn't have to do it over, but it's cool that they did.

 

-----

Re: the "Versus Zoom" episode description: Cisco can open breaches now? I'm not sure if that's one of his powers from the comics, but that's making him very powerful, and anyway, I thought that the crossover just established that Barry can cross universes by himself.

[scarynikki12]

This thread is for Flash spoilers only.  The only spoilers that should be discussed here are the Flash ones.  Arrow, LOT, Supergirl, etc, have their own spoiler threads.  Your fellow posters might be fine knowing what's to come on Flash but want to remain spoiler-free for the shared universe.  Once the episodes air, the best place for the shared universe discussions is the Mind Your Surroundings thread located here in the Arrow forum.  Until then, please be careful to discuss the spoilers in the appropriate threads. 

 

Thank you.  Here's a kitten

 

[Maverick]

Re: the "Versus Zoom" episode description: Cisco can open breaches now? I'm not sure if that's one of his powers from the comics, but that's making him very powerful, and anyway, I thought that the crossover just established that Barry can cross universes by himself.

 

 I only know comics backstory from what I read on wiki, but in one of DC's reset I thought Vibe's powers were re-written because the original version was so lame.  I remember reading his powers could now disrupt the Speed Force, making him one of the only heroes or villains to pose a direct threat to Flash's powers (which is why I assume he was included in The Flash).  

[Trini]

To address the set pics, I guess:

The Flash‘s doppelgängers keep on coming.

Arrow star Katie Cassidy will guest-star on the spinoff as the Earth-Two version of Laurel Lance, Arrow executive producer Marc Guggenheim confirmed at a Monday press screening.

In the parallel universe, Laurel takes on the moniker of Black Siren, who was a member of the Justice Society and the mother of Dinah Laurel Lance in the DC Comics canon.

Cassidy appears in The Flash‘s penultimate Season 2 installment, airing May 17.

 

Black Siren was a hero in the animated universe, but this version is evil, most likely. Why do all the doppelgangers have to be evil/opposite??

[nksarmi]

To address the set pics, I guess:

 

Black Siren was a hero in the animated universe, but this version is evil, most likely. Why do all the doppelgangers have to be evil/opposite??

 

I've read tons of comments from actors over the years and they almost all enjoy playing evil for at least a little bit.  Perhaps they are just letting her have some fun?

[CabotCove]

Black Siren was a hero in the animated universe, but this version is evil, most likely. Why do all the doppelgangers have to be evil/opposite??

 

We dont know that for sure though or do we?

Probably will be clear, when the episode airs (2x22)

Edited April 5, 2016 by WildcardC

[Trini]

I've read tons of comments from actors over the years and they almost all enjoy playing evil for at least a little bit.  Perhaps they are just letting her have some fun?

 

Oh, I'm sure it is, and I don't have a problem with that, but at this point the opposite doppelgangers are getting repetitive and predictable. Earth-2 Tina McGee is probably equivalent to Lex Luthor! /spoiler /kidding /probablytruethough

 

Yeah, we don't know for sure if she's evil; but this season's track record and the set pics have me leaning that way. I think she'd have the mask if she was on the hero side.

[slayer2]

Honestly, it is a little tiring that everyone on E2 who isn't Barry has to be evil if they have powers.

She looks great though! Hopefully she's a meta and can find someway to make Laurel meta too.

[zannej]

I know in the comic books Black Canary was a metahuman and the Canary Cry was something she could do "naturally" without technology. I can't remember if she was born with it or if something happened where she was given the power. I do know she had been unable to have children due to something happening to her. I think she was dipped in the Lazarus Pit at some point though.

[Trini]

With Black Siren (assuming she has the canary cry), that's going to be three sound-based villains the Flash has gone up against this season. Or four, if we count Pied Piper.

 

-------

How is Barry going to defeat Zoom anyway? He didn't actually stop Reverse Flash or Trajectory. Even if he manages to catch him - and it looks he does next episode - then what? Maybe they try to 'cure' him, if that's even possible?