Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[zannej]

Well, now we know why Joe punched Harry. Not surprised there. It will be interesting to see if they can figure out how to even find Zoom. I think that is where Cisco could come in handy. I am wondering how it is that Zoom knows when and where to meet Harry or if Zoom is the one who tells Harry to meet him at specific times and places and he just shows up. This could be used to their advantage if they can set a trap- close other breaches and then set up the forcefield things they had in place to try to trap Reverse Flash earlier on (only Eobard rigged the hologram instead).

[Trini]

Photos for "Welcome to Earth-2". Glad they found a way to use JLM's musical talents! And Carlos Valdes tweeted that he did a piano arrangement.

[zannej]

Joe as a lounge singer is cool. I admit, being a fan of Wells, I was hoping for some pictures of him and maybe some shots of Jesse since they might be having her show up in the episode. I wish I could warm to the idea of Killer Frost and Deathstorm, but it just makes me *yawn*. It looks like Iris might be a cop, which is interesting.

[marihunc]

The big one for me is this pic: http://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/the-flash-2x13/fla213a_0110b.jpg

 

Floyd Lawton on the left, and he still has both eyes...

[Trini]

Robbie Amell interview; posting it here, because it has major spoilers, and I'm not sure which of the Earth-2 episodes they fall in.

[zannej]

Since this is speculation based on the most recent episode but involves the future episodes I decided to post here. I think the man in the mask that was banging on the glass was Earth1 Henry Allen.

 

So, it looks like Zoom was using Reverb to spy on Barry and the folks on Earth2. I wonder if Cisco thought to snag his glasses before leaving.

 

I was excited to see the Legion of SuperHeroes flight ring when they were going through the breach.

 

I thought I saw Barry's dad with a weird hat and gun on the left in the breach, but I read elsewhere that it was Jonah Hex. Not sure though.

 

Back to the ring, I hope that means we could see Barry's granddaughter, Jenni (aka XS). I'd also love to see Bart Allen and maybe Brainiac 5 (who was one of the few members of the LoSH who liked Bart).

 

I saw that Hartley Rathaway will be returning in I think episode 17? Or was it 18? I can't recall. But I'm looking forward to that. I think they said it involved time travel though. I was really wanting to see how Hartley would interact with E2 Wells.

Edited February 10, 2016 by zannej

[Ruby25]

Apparently Griffin Grey will be making an appearance on the show in April- the first Bart Allen tease, I assume?

 

What do you guys think of the idea that the show might just cut out the Tornado Twins altogether and make Bart Barry/Iris's son? I heard that speculated and it kinda makes sense to me. I know they'll want to bring Bart on eventually- maybe they'll just make him their son instead of grandson. If they still wanted to do twins they could go ahead and make Jenni their daughter too.

[driedfruit]

There were a few light Bart teases this episode. Both Cisco and Nora mentioned Barry's future grandkids. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by driedfruit

[zannej]

Not sure if it means anything, but on John Wesley Shipp "liked" a comment on Twitter that suggested that the reason we haven't seen E2 Henry Allen is because he's Zoom.

Barry didn't tell his father he was going to Earth2. Either those are red herrings, or he really could be Zoom.

Interesting that Killer Frost said Zoom wanted The Flash "alive" but Zoom had apparently stipulated "unharmed" and was pissed off that Deathstorm & Reverb were hurting Barry.

[phoenics]

I have a Terminator theory that Jay becomes Zoom on Earth 1.  Like how in Terminator, Sarah's son (John Connor) sends the guy back to the past to save Sarah.  But then he falls in love with Sarah and sleeps with her, producing Sarah's son, John Connor - who is the one who sent the dude back to save Sarah in the first place.  I think Jay, via working with Caitlin and Harry on Velocity 7-9, becomes Zoom - kinda like the Terminator plot.

[Jazzy24]

Saw a new Flash promo titled:Zoom's Coming if anybody can link it that would be great.

But it looks like Jay will be getting his speed back YAY!!!

And something really broke Barry back on Earth-2, I guess we'll find out on Tuesday.

[bettername2come]

Saw a new Flash promo titled:Zoom's Coming if anybody can link it that would be great.

But it looks like Jay will be getting his speed back YAY!!!

And something really broke Barry back on Earth-2, I guess we'll find out on Tuesday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My9uSscBO8E

[Maverick]

 Geomancer makes int into Star Labs.   Quelle surprise.  

 

 Diggle!  And Lyla!  Without Arrow!   That should be interesting.

 

 Who's the woman in the red mask?  Thea? 

 

 Has the time vault been stocked with MREs?   Did Team Flash convert it a shelter in preparation for the next disaster they cause?

 

So Barry's locked in the pipeline and presumably another speedsters is ruining his good name.  Since Flash cosplay doesn't seem Zoom's style, I'm going to guess this is where Zolomon comes into play.

 

Why do they keep showing King Shark in these promos?  I thought he was supposed to be a one-off sight gag.   Is he going to be revealed to be who Oliver was mourning for at that grave?  Is he going to be unmasked as Zoom?

Edited February 13, 2016 by Maverick

[zannej]

I wonder if the guy on Earth2 wearing the mask is The Man in the Iron Mask person from ATOM comic books. I forget the guy's name, but he can cause people's memories to blackout or something. Or maybe the person is Diggle.

 

I was very pleased to see Diggle in the promo.

 

When Zoom entered the time vault, Barry looked quite frightened. I saw Jesse was in there, so it looks like they rescued her. I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

[Ruby25]

I'm so looking forward to Barry 2 in this episode, lol. I can't wait to see what his dynamic with Iris is.

[Trini]

My two most important takeaways from the new trailer:

1) Who is that masked woman??

 

2) Barry actually manages to get a pep talk from... himself. Okay, it's Earth-2 Barry, BUT STILL.

[bettername2come]

Diggle reacting to Barry's powers gives me endless joy. I need to see him finding out what all Cisco can do. 

 

Has the time vault been stocked with MREs?   Did Team Flash convert it a shelter in preparation for the next disaster they cause?

 

I think it's the Earth 2 time vault.It looked like Earth-2 Barry clinging to Cisco in the background.

[phoenics]

But why would there be an Earth 2 time vault?  RF created that.  No RF on E2.

[bettername2come]

I don't think it's technically a time vault. Just a random creepy Braille room inside STAR Labs. And cheaper to re-use sets.

[Maverick]

1) Who is that masked woman??

 

 After some googling, I think it's Jesse Quick.

[Trini]

Another site I visit thinks it's Trajectory. Way too many speedsters this season!

[Maverick]

 Yes, it looks like there are several that are saying Trajectory.  But it looks like Trajectory doesn't wear a mask (but Jesse Quick does).   Weird.   Exactly how many damn Speedsters are there in the DC universe?   I think the only one with more counterparts is Green Lantern.

[zannej]

After further thought, I think the masked man in Zoom's cage is Wally West of E2.

 

Ok, looking at the video again, I think the masked woman is Lyla Diggle. She has brown eyes. Violett Beane has blue eyes.

 

I was thinking the "creepy braille room" was back on Earth1. They may have set it up as a panic room/fallout shelter of sorts in the hopes that Zoom wouldn't find them there.

[Potanical Pardon]

 Yes, it looks like there are several that are saying Trajectory.  But it looks like Trajectory doesn't wear a mask (but Jesse Quick does).   Weird.   Exactly how many damn Speedsters are there in the DC universe?   I think the only one with more counterparts is Green Lantern.

PLENTY. But I've never minded. The superheroes have never been defined by their power. They're mostly distinct and utilize their speed powers differently with distinct personalities and characteristics.

 

Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, Wally West, Bart Allen (Impulse/Kid Flash), Max Mercury (Speed Force guru that has lived through centuries...not because he's immortal, he just keeps time jumping when he runs so fast in various time periods), XS (Legion of Superheroes, cousin of Bart Allen), Jae West (Wally's son), Iris (Irey) West (Kid Flash/Impulse), Johnny Quick (speed formula), Jesse Quick (speed-formula - daughter of Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle), E3 Johnny Quick (evil), Don Allen (Tornado Twin, son of Barry and Iris, father of Bart), Dawn Allen (Tornado Twin, daughter of Barry and Iris, mother of XS), Eobard Thawne (Professor Zoom/Reverse Flash), Hunter Zolomon (Zoom), Rival, Black Flash (looks like death), Black Racer...apparently the same as Black Flash now, Walter West (alternate aged non-multiverse counterpart to Wally who is stuck on our real-life Earth).

 

There are others that aren't Flash family. And there are newer characters since 2011, but I don't recognize that New-52 crap.

 

Fun trivia #1: The Allen and Thawne families are a thousand-years-spanning rivalry that ends with Don Allen marrying Meloni Thawne, the parents of Bart Allen.

 

Fun trivia #2: Barry Allen is a twin. His brother is kidnapped at birth, while Barry's parents are told the twin was lost at birth. The kidnapping family are the Thawnes and raise the twin as their own only child, Malcolm Thawne.

 

Conclusion to fun trivia: These 1000 years of warring families are all descended from the exact same DNA ....and this Hatfield-McCoy shit is kinda sorta incesty. Yeah, 1000 years, but that would be the Meloni Thawne DNA. Don's would be like 1 generation apart from the common source DNA - Barry Allen/Malcolm Thawne.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[Ruby25]

That's a lot of speedsters. Bart Allen is undoubtedly the most famous of the ones they haven't brought in yet, and I'd bet money they'll want to introduce him next season, since they wasted no time bringing in Jay Garrick and Wally West, but I wonder how they will do it.

 

Will they still make him Barry/Iris's grandson? Or will they change the canon a bit, cut out the Tornado Twins and just make him their son instead?

[Ruby25]

Do you guys think it's possible they could entertain the idea of changing Iris's profession during the hiatus this year? It might be a good thing- they could have her be inspired by hearing about her badass E2 self to go after her original dream after all.

 

There was such a positive response to her in these E2 episodes that I'm hoping they consider it. It's obviously much easier for them to write for cops and incorporate them into the action. I know it's a deviation from canon, but in this case I think it might be best for the show, and people would understand.

 

The only downside is that it would be a tacit admission that they couldn't figure out how to come up with ideas for her as a reporter, which is an embarassing knock on them as writers, but if we could really have Iris be that assertive and involved more, than I really do think it's for the best.

[phoenics]

I'd prefer they get Iris right and leave her as a reporter - they just need to write the stories better. That's on them - changing her profession just proves they are really piss poor writers. Lois Lane wouldn't have had to switch jobs.

What they need to show is Iris doing more investigative journalism - in action - and doing self defense when things get hairy. Although she's already pretty handy with a gun and a sucker punch.

The truth is, Iris is already assertive like E2 Iris. She's just not a cop. But if the writers really wanted to integrate her, they would.

[driedfruit]

I don't think Lois (or comic Iris) and show Iris' situations are comparable. For 1.5 seasons now they've shown us that Iris' investigative skills are, for the most part, unnecessary. The scientists and the cops can do everything she can faster and better, and now Cisco's metahuman app took away the need for the one skill Iris brought to the team.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think a career change is feasible because I'd assume the writers will want to keep their options open for future seasons and having every single main character be a cop or a scientist could be terribly limiting down the road. Nor do I see them caring enough to want to incorporate her regularly. 

[zannej]

Thanks for that info, Potanical Pardon. One minor quibble: The rivalry between the Thawne and Allen family didn't quite end with Melani marrying Don. IIRC, her father still had the Tornado Twins murdered and kidnapped her son and held him in virtual reality room (sort of like the Holodeck from ST:TNG, I think) for the first two years of his life. He had something wrong with him so he aged rapidly and was going to die of old age in a short amount of time. Iris broke him out and brought him back to the past and Wally figured out how to stop the aging. He physically appeared to be about 14 but had only lived for 2 years at that point.

 

Fun fact: It was implied that while in his virtual reality prison, he interacted with an infant Brainiac 5 and they were friends. When Bart met up with the Legion of superHeroes, the only members who liked him were XS and Brainiac 5-- and Brainiac 5 didn't like many people. IIRC XS hugged the daylights out of him. LOL.

 

Moving on to speculation. I have several things I'm speculating:

* First up is my speculation about Eobard's motivations. The excuse about not being able to be The Flash didn't satisfactorily explain to me why Eobard hated The Flash so much. Then I remembered the speech he gave to Eddie about imagining all the people you loved, your job, your life, etc and then it was just gone. So, what if Eobard had a memory of his life before Eddie died and erased his family line from existence. So, he's time-traveling and goes to return home only to find that it's all gone. His family, his career, everything he knew in his life had just vanished and he was unknown. Not only was his family gone, but his social status and everything he achieved was wiped out (this would have been after the bit we saw of him first telling Barry that he wanted to kill him because he learned they would be enemies). He might not have known exactly what happened, but as far as he's concerned, Barry literally ruined his life. That would explain to me just why he hated Barry so very much.

* I think it is still possible that Zoom is E2 Henry OR that he was able to change his appearance to look like Henry Allen and that he was the one who told Barry he was leaving to let him be a hero and he was the one who came back and said he'd been in Granite Peaks National Park catching his fill of "large mouth bass" and that sometimes you have to slow down to get to where you want to be.

* If Zoom is not actually Henry Allen, then I think he's Hunter Zolomon.

* What if the location of Zoom's lair is the E2 equivalent of E1's Granite Peaks National Park?

* I think the man in the iron mask is the real E2 Jay. Note how he was in the same sort of cell as Barry-- indicating he might have speed powers. He appeared to have blonde hair on the back of his head. The mask could serve multiple purposes.

* I think the man that went to E1 claiming to be Jay is not really Jay and he's in cahoots with Zoom. He could be Hunter Zolomon (if Hunter is NOT Zoom) or he could be a clone of either Hunter or Jay. I think he's addicted to speed and, like a junkie, refused to take the velocity serum to make it seem like he was not a junkie so people would want to push the serum on him and remain oblivious to his addiction. The DNA degrading problem could be because he's a clone. Furthermore, I think he's been feeding info to Zoom about team Flash and that he sabotaged the speed canon twice and that he arranged to have the metahuman earthquake guy break in to STARLabs. I think he may have been in cahoots with the guy, turned off the security system, and let him in while he was claimed to be napping. I absolutely believe he walked so close to the portal knowing that Zoom was going to pull him through. Whether or not his apparent "death" was planned or not, I don't know. Either he faked it so they would be angry at Zoom, or he was no longer useful to Zoom so Zoom offed him. My guess is the former rather than the latter.

* I think that Zoom wasn't actually trying to catch Harrison Wells in the beginning of the episode. If he'd really wanted him, he would have gone to STARLabs first. I think he was deliberately terrorizing him and making it so Harrison would have no place to go. I also think he could have killed Jesse in a heartbeat if he'd really wanted to. So, I think he let the team get away on purpose, while making it look like he wasn't letting them get away.

* I am entertaining the idea that Jesse has been brainwashed by Zoom. First she was saying her father didn't care about her, then she was telling the iron mask guy to stop tapping, she initially discouraged attempts to decipher what he was saying, and she discouraged Barry from trying to escape. It may be subconscious on her part though. I don't know. Zoom may have a Manchurian candidate thing going with her. I'm hoping that is not the case, but if it is, I'm sure she'll break free from his influence somehow. I see it as Zoom switching agents to see if one will be more effective. They would never suspect Jesse of working with Zoom. If she is, her love for her father will probably win in the end. I do think she was genuinely happy to be reunited with him and that she was afraid of Zoom.

* I wonder if Zoom needs to keep collecting speed to stay healthy. I was re-watching the scene where Wells brought him some of Barry's speedforce and his hand was shaking before he injected himself. He may get DTs if he doesn't get a speed fix.

Edited February 19, 2016 by zannej

[Trini]

EW Spoiler Room:

Will we see Killer Frost again on The Flash? — S Delcarmen
First off, despite the final breach being closed, we have not seen the last of Earth-2. “You’ll see quite a bit” in coming episodes, executive producer Todd Helbing says. As for Killer Frost, we will find out her fate, so yes, you will see her again sometime soon.

[missysays]

Don't know if this has been put out there. But I wonder if the man in the iron mask is Eddie that was resuscitated from death on E2 after his body was dragged into the wormhole at the end of last season.

 

Pure conjecture: I wonder if they'll build Barry and Iris' relationship back up over the course of this season until the end when the "Eddie" comes back again right at the end of season 2 after they've declared their love for each other and then they'll end it as a major relationship cliff hanger at the end of season 2 -- along with some other super villain stuff too.

[Ruby25]

I think that would suck, and frankly be overkill as far as the whole "will they, won't they" thing is concerned. I kind of expect them to get together by the finale at least. Or at least declare their love before a moment of peril or something.

 

A moment of peril I can take- yet another love interest, back from the dead or not, is too much at this point.

[missysays]

I'm not saying that I'd like it if that's what would happen but I'm sort of going through who it could possibly be behind that iron mask. I'm thinking it's someone that the audience would know or else why the mask. So of the male characters that we've seen the past two seasons - it's not likely to be a former villain of the week metahuman. It's not likely to be Jay (at least not the one we've seen on E1), the only missing males that we'd know are some version of Eobard (not likely), Henry? (not likely). I think some version of Jay may be Zoom or else why would they bother casting a fairly well known actor to play Jay if they were just going to give him the bland nowheresville storyline he's had so far this season. I think the man in the mask was spelling out Jay bc he was trying to warn Barry/Flash that Jay was Zoom.

 

I actually would hate it if it were Eddie. I'm more than ready for E1's Barry and Iris to come together in a legitimate way! But how else would the showrunners drag this out- and you know they'll want to. They haven't shown that they know how to write for 3 dimensional solid romantic relationships where the action comes from struggles that they face together instead of against each other.

[Trini]

Matt's Inside Line:

Will The Flash‘s Barry ever tell Iris about their kiss and love confession from the other timeline? –Lashae

The timing for those two just never seems right, you know? And next up as an obstacle is Iris’ new editor, Scott Evans. “There’s a bit of a romance that starts to happen between them,” Candice Patton previews of her and Tone Bell’s characters. “It’s more on his part than hers, but it’s the first time that Iris starts to deal with moving on from Eddie’s death and being open to the idea that maybe her heart can finally move forward. The Scott Evans character is really the catalyst for that.” Which, in the long… run… could service WestAllen!

 

Smeggin' frell. I was really hoping they weren't going this direction. Yeah this might move WestAllen forward blah blah blah, but I still don't like this arc is now going to be related to her role as a love interest. And a boss/subordinate workplace romance can be sketchy, at best.

[phoenics]

Ugh.  This damn show.

[zannej]

I despise supervisor/subordinate relationships in shows. There are so many problems that can arise from it. I mean, it would be different if it started out with a married couple and one is the boss, but I am not for the supervisors hooking up with the subordinates because it is just asking for trouble. Plus, I think they are trying to make the editor a bit of a dick and Iris deserves better.

 

And now we have to wait for March for the next episode.

[Trini]

Episode 2.16 :

"Trajectory" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET)

THERE IS A NEW SPEEDSTER IN CENTRAL CITY; WILL THE FLASH BE ABLE TO KEEP UP? -

 

Deciding to blow off some steam, Barry and the team head out for a night on the town only to encounter an unexpected speedster who is up to no good. Iris is challenged by an assignment from her new boss (guest star Tone Bell), and is surprised when friction turns to flirtation.

 

Glen Winter directed the episode written by Lauren Certo and Lilah Vandenburgh

[Trini]

... and is surprised when friction turns to flirtation.

Gah -- I hate this so much already. But I hate the cliché of "we hate each other, therefore, we secretly want to bone".

Edited March 9, 2016 by Trini

[zannej]

I hope that Iris doesn't flirt with her boss and vice versa. If the boss starts flirting with her then it would be completely inappropriate.

[Trini]

Well, I had no idea there was a Flash Costume dept. instagram.... Anyway, the episode that Kevin Smith is directing is 2.21.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCg6qEBg3Hw/

Edited March 9, 2016 by Trini

[Trini]

Promo pics for "Trajectory" are out;  something about a blood transfusion?
 
Description for episode 2.17, "Flashback":

After the shocking revelation that Zoom is Jay Garrick, Barry is more determined than ever to get back to Earth-2 to stop Zoom forever. Desperate to find a way to increase his speed, Barry decides to travel back in time and masquerade as his earlier self in order to get his arch-nemesis, Dr. Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne, to teach him how to run faster. However, things don’t go as planned and Barry is stunned to face familiar foe Hartley Rathaway (guest star Andy Mientus), as well as old friend Eddie Thawne (guest star Rick Cosnett). Iris makes peace with her past in order to embrace her future.

[FurryFury]

Is Hartley Rathaway the Pied Piper? If so, cool, I liked him.

[SevenStars]

Promo pics for "Trajectory" are out; something about a blood transfusion?

Description for episode 2.17, "Flashback":

I don't get this. Did Barry forget how to run fast enough to move through time ? Am I missing something ?

[Trini]

Matt's Inside Line:

Will Patty Spivot ever return to The Flash? –Merilyn
Quite possibly, though that seems a bit less likely now that Shantel Van Santen’s USA Network pilot, Shooter, has been ordered to series. But in a best-case scenario, “We have not seen the last of Patty,” exec producer Andrew Kreisberg told me at the time of her send-off. “We very consciously did not kill her.”

Eh. Not a surprise.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Trini

[Trini]

I'm excited to see Eddie and Pied Piper return, but that description does raise some questions:

After the shocking revelation that Zoom is Jay Garrick,

So, I guess they find out in 2.16? But how?? And didn't the producers say Zoom is Hunter Zolomon?
 

Barry decides to travel back in time and masquerade as his earlier self in order to get his arch-nemesis, Dr. Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne, to teach him how to run faster.

Well, this sounds like a terrible idea. I wonder how Barry (and Team Flash?) justify this course of action; because time travel has worked out so well for them before. There seems a real good chance for him to screw up his current timeline. Will this change events in Season 1?
 

However, things don’t go as planned and Barry is stunned to face familiar foe Hartley Rathaway

Well, DUH. But I wonder what time he goes back to exactly -- the same time as when he fought Hartley before?
 
Also, this is the episode airing right after the Supergirl crossover, so I'm wondering how and where those events fit into The Flash's continuity. Does he cross universes at the end of 2.16, and then come back at the start of 2.17?
 

Iris makes peace with her past in order to embrace her future.

Okay, Iris finally deals with/moves on from Eddie's death last season... two-thirds of the way through this season.*  ::sigh::  Now, "her future" with Barry, or with her new boss? It's probably Barry, but I still don't trust these writers when it comes to Iris.

 

 

*That's not a comment on how long it takes to grieve; it's about the writers ignoring this part of Iris' story for so long.

[Ruby25]

I'm guessing in the short term it refers to the new boss, but it probably won't go past one date. Then we finally start moving on Barry/Iris, probably in time for them to admit it and/or kiss in the season finale. Sigh. That's just taking way too long.

 

As for Supergirl, my guess is they'll only barely explain it, because whatever happens on Supergirl will have ZERO effect on The Flash, so it may as well be like a dream that Barry had in between episodes, lol.

[cambridgeguy]

 

I don't get this. Did Barry forget how to run fast enough to move through time ? Am I missing something ?

Barry's problem is that he inadvertently time travels after he reaches a certain speed.  He wants to avoid that and just run faster instead.

 

I can see his Supergirl crossover being due to a failed attempt at returning to Earth 2.  It might come up in conversation (hey, there are aliens who conveniently look just like attractive humans in this alternate reality!) but will otherwise be irrelevant.

[Trini]

Hmmm, I wonder if there's a National City in the Arrowverse?

[Trini]

A couple of BTS pics from cast and crew on Instagram show that Henry will be appearing in upcoming episodes. (We should have had more of him instead of Jay!)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

And this is why I don't (usually) seek out spoilers... not only because it gives away 'surprises', but now I'm pissed as hell to find out that CW will never ever change, re: Iris & Scott.  Then, probably a romantic reunion of sorts between I & E with the time-travel ep and bringing Eddie back for a cameo.

 

TheCW does ship stalling, pairing significant characters that ends up ruining one or both characters, and/or pointless relationship angst like they are the only tropes worth mimicking when it comes to making TV shows.  Supernatural is the only CW product to mostly escape those problems, only because the main characters are heterosexual brothers.

 

What I wouldn't give to see the next seasons (however many of each are left) of Flash, Arrow, Supernatural, & LoT moved to Netflix or another (cable) channel so I could avoid CW altogether.