S05.E08: Coda

[Madding crowd]

He was disturbed by the slaughter of the termites in his church.  He was looking for proof of what they were.  That's why he responded so strongly to Bob's leg.

 

 

Yes, but he saw Bob in person, when Bob was dying, didn't he? He also said he needed to go to the school, which was filled with walkers.. I just don't see why he left the church for that. And of course, he had to bring home a big ole bunch of walkers.

[Pete Martell]

 

I am really annoyed with Maggie now.  She barely asked about Beth for like weeks now.  Then she's overjoyed and crushed. Lame IMO. 

 

We've barely seen Maggie. It's obvious that she loved her sister. The show just ignored it because they were saving up for this moment, which was bad writing. They likely thought it would have more impact if she didn't think of Beth until now, but it wasn't true to the character.

[minamurray78]

And also, what was Cop Bob thinking? The guy is right behind you. He's on a car and has guns. It's over man.

When a cop tells you to pull over, you pull over.

[Brooke0707]

Yes, but he saw Bob in person, when Bob was dying, didn't he? He also said he needed to go to the school, which was filled with walkers.. I just don't see why he left the church for that. And of course, he had to bring home a big ole bunch of walkers.

I think the reason is that he is just THAT stupid. 

[apollonia666]

Bob's leg didn't look like it had that much, if any, meat taken off of it!  The Termites sure didn't eat much.  And I am peeved for the second consecutive week at Rick and The Gang for not taking any of those bulletproof vests before going into the hospital.  And I can't find any of these people hot because I just keep thinking how awful they must all smell.  

 

This show makes me obsess over such weird things.

[Lingo]

And Morgan!!!! I still don't understand how he's tracking Rick and company. I don't think Rick is leaving those marks on the tree for him to follow because as far as he knows Morgan is still crazy. And besides, Rick's been a little too busy to remember or worry about Morgan's activities. I hope those marked trees are eventually explained. I love that Morgan now has concrete evidence that it is Rick he is following and knows where he is headed. I wonder if he's weeks or months behind the group. I desperately want Morgan to meet up with the gang before the season ends. And for the love of God, please give him some lines!!

 

I think he was following the Terminite's marks, the marks the Terminites were going to use to go back to Terminus.  Naturally the trail ends at the church, but luckily Morgan found the map, so he may start heading to DC to look for Rick there.  That's my guess.

[CletusMusashi]

And also, what was Cop Bob thinking? The guy is right behind you. He's on a car and has guns. It's over man.

When a cop tells you to pull over, you pull over.

Yeah, if every cop that you know thinks that driving into people to see if they live or die is a great way to introduce yourself, why the hell would you think somebody who looks like Rick would be less dangerous?

Bob's leg didn't look like it had that much, if any, meat taken off of it!  The Termites sure didn't eat much.  And I am peeved for the second consecutive week at Rick and The Gang for not taking any of those bulletproof vests before going into the hospital.  And I can't find any of these people hot because I just keep thinking how awful they must all smell.  

 

This show makes me obsess over such weird things.

They didn't eat much of Bob because they found out he was tainted.

 

Not sure if body armor would as useful in the ZA as it is now. I'd think everybody pretty much just goes for head shots. After all, you don't want somebody you just "killed" getting back up again in mid-battle.

[Guest]

He was disturbed by the slaughter of the termites in his church.  He was looking for proof of what they were.  That's why he responded so strongly to Bob's leg.

 

Didn't he find a bible before he saw the leg?  I'm going with he was escaping because he thought there were two groups of bad people and he wanted to get away from the ones that were still living, then he stumbles on the school and realizes that someone was eating Bob while reading a bible and hightailed it back to safety when the zombies escaped.    He edited his reasoning for leaving to Michonne because he realizes there are no other 'good' people to find because even those still actively turning to religion for comfort are eating their fellow man.  Gabriel is not a brave man.  He's not going to come completely clean and that is why his story doesn't quite make sense even though its plausible.

[lunastartron]

I disagree that there was no character progress. When Beth came to Dawn's aid in the fight to the death with the other cop, I was cheering her on because it was one of the only occasions I've seen her make a proactive and/or daring decision and the first when that choice seemed to be calculated not on ideals of goodness but what represented the best option for physical safety/survival. Likewise, I think Dawn was perhaps intended to operate as a foil to Rick; her dialogue about Hansen with the officer who attempted to take her out was all about what constituted a proper response to the "tough choices." She was just both more of a scrapper and a paranoid control freak than Rick. I didn't avail myself of any spoilers, so I was wondering if there was the potential for a redux of the Andrea/Woodbury paradigm. I think it could have been a lot richer plotwise if Beth had aligned herself with Dawn, although that would have required a more protracted story arc.

[MrWhyt]

 

Re the hostage exchange:  could we just once, just one time, get to see this group conceive of a plan that ends up WORKING?

it was working, up until it wasn't. If it wasn't for Dawn and Beth it would've gone off without a hitch.

[Milaxx]

He edited his reasoning for leaving to Michonne because he realizes there are no other 'good' people to find because even those still actively turning to religion for comfort are eating their fellow man.  Gabriel is not a brave man.  He's not going to come completely clean and that is why his story doesn't quite make sense even though its plausible.

 

I'm thinking he may have changed his mind about how he felt about Michonne and the rest of the group when she refused to leave him when he bought the walkers back to the church. His banging on the church doors, much like the folks he let die further proved to him Rick and Co may kill when necessary, but they are murdering just for the heck of it killers. I expect to see a more cooperative Gabriel next season.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Milaxx

[apollonia666]

They didn't eat much of Bob because they found out he was tainted.

Not sure if body armor would as useful in the ZA as it is now. I'd think everybody pretty much just goes for head shots. After all, you don't want somebody you just "killed" getting back up again in mid-battle.

Yeah, but back in the episode where they were munching on Bob they all had pretty big hunks in their hands already before he told them it was tainted meat.

And I am not sure how what you're saying about the body armor really makes sense. Sure you don't want somebody getting back up in the middle of a battle. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't want to have some on yourself so that you don't end up taking a body shot while bullets are flying around.

Edited December 1, 2014 by apollonia666

[Pete Martell]

It would have made far more sense to the narrative if Beth had killed Dawn and was killed in return. Daryl doing it just felt like mushy writing.

[Milaxx]

And I am not sure how what you're saying about the body armor really makes sense. Sure you don't want somebody getting back up in the middle of a battle. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't want to have some on yourself. You know, so that you don't end up being "killed."

 

Body armor is useful against getting bit by walkers, not so much if another human wants to shoot you. Glenn used the riot gear to get out of the prison.

[Guest]

It would have made far more sense to the narrative if Beth had killed Dawn and was killed in return. Daryl doing it just felt like mushy writing.

 

I think they wanted her mouthing 'I didn't mean it' to make her motives ambiguous and that has to be followed up with someone shooting her in the head.

[apollonia666]

Body armor is useful against getting bit by walkers, not so much if another human wants to shoot you. Glenn used the riot gear to get out of the prison.

So those weren't police-issued bulletproof vests? Someone was manufacturing body armor that could be shot through but that couldn't be chewed through before the zombie apocalypse?

[CletusMusashi]

All I'm saying is that body armor is heavy. If you're only expecting head shots anyway, you might opt for less weight to carry over the extra "just in case" protection.

I'd probably still opt for it myself. But, for characters who didn't, that's the best fanwank I can offer.

[catrox14]

We've barely seen Maggie. It's obvious that she loved her sister. The show just ignored it because they were saving up for this moment, which was bad writing. They likely thought it would have more impact if she didn't think of Beth until now, but it wasn't true to the character.

I never said she didn't love her sister. She just didn't seem particularly interested in her whereabouts. To me it would have been far more impactful if Maggie had been mentioning Beth to Glenn more often to show how much she missed her and how worried she was. There has been time for that. So I think this to throw Maggie into a depression etc along with daryl.

[bookrat]

I wasn't paying much attention, but why did Dawn kill Beth? Did Beth slap her and then Dawn shot her?

[Guest]

I never said she didn't love her sister. She just didn't seem particularly interested in her whereabouts. To me it would have been far more impactful if Maggie had been mentioning Beth to Glenn more often to show how much she missed her and how worried she was. There has been time for that. So I think this to throw Maggie into a depression etc along with daryl.

 

Based on them addressing the Martin thing, I'm mildly hopeful that the Beth fallout will be more impactful this way.  Given the short timeline, she could tell herself that there was nothing she could have done for Beth if she'd been more focused on finding Beth than Glenn,  But now she has to deal with deciding to go off with Abraham when she could have been there and seen her sister and maybe changed something had she not gone off on Eugene's mission.

 

I'm not saying Maggie did anything wrong, but they created a lot of room for Maggie to blame herself going this way.

[bookrat]

Ok, I saw the Beth death scene in slow motion and saw that she stabbed Dawn with a pair of small scissors. Um, what exactly was that supposed to do? It wouldn't kill Dawn...it might just make her mad enough to shoot her. And well, gee, it did.  It would have been better if Beth had stabbed Dawn in the eye. At least that would have done some damage. Just what was Beth trying to do? It would have made more sense for her to try to steal Dawn's gun, or stab Dawn and then try to grab the gun. It was a dumb way for Beth  to get herself killed.

[GaT]

Well. First, somebody needs to end Father Gabriel, they were nice & safe in the church until that idiot decides to go walk about. He really had to see for himself? Did he somehow miss the fact that they were responsible for a baby? What a waste of space he is.

 

Beth! I won't miss her & boy am I glad Dawn is finally dead & watching Darryl end her was great. I hope this means we are done with the hospital. & that we don't have to spend many episodes watching Maggie weep.

 

Who is Morgan? Everybody seems to remember who he is, but I don't remember him at all.

Edited December 2, 2014 by GaT

[bookrat]

Isn't Morgan the dad whose dead wife kept coming to his house in the first season? He had a son who it turns out got eaten by his dead wife.

[Milaxx]

Who is Morgan? Everybody seems to remember who he is, but I don't remember him at all.

 

Morgan was the first live person Rick met back in season 1.  He wanders out of the hospital and into town where he meets Morgan and his son.  Morgan won't leave because his wife has turned. He knows he needs to kill her but can't bring himself to do it. Then in Season 3(?) Rick returns to his town with Carl & Michonne. He discovers that Morgan had made a fortress of the town and is a little nuts. Turns out he couldn't bring himself to kill his wife and she bit his son forcing Morgan to shoot them both. Rick tries to bring Morgan back with them to the prison, but he's still stuck in his grief and regret that he didn't shoot his wife when he should and declines.

 

Fans like myself like Morgan because he was in 2 of the strongest episodes of the show. The premiere episode and "Clear". I am hoping that since Morgan has gotten himself together enough to leave the town, he will be all kinds of awesome once he joins Rick & co.

[Pete Martell]

Ok, I saw the Beth death scene in slow motion and saw that she stabbed Dawn with a pair of small scissors. Um, what exactly was that supposed to do? It wouldn't kill Dawn...it might just make her mad enough to shoot her. And well, gee, it did.  It would have been better if Beth had stabbed Dawn in the eye. At least that would have done some damage. Just what was Beth trying to do? It would have made more sense for her to try to steal Dawn's gun, or stab Dawn and then try to grab the gun. It was a dumb way for Beth  to get herself killed.

 

The only way it really makes sense to me is if Beth had just given up much of her hope and life when she was trapped in the hospital for so long, and what happened with Noah was the last straw. If she just fruitlessly attacked Dawn not realizing or caring about the consequences, because she was already dead anyway.

[GaT]

Isn't Morgan the dad whose dead wife kept coming to his house in the first season? He had a son who it turns out got eaten by his dead wife.

 

 

Morgan was the first live person Rick met back in season 1.  He wanders out of the hospital and into town where he meets Morgan and his son. Morgan won't leave because his wife has turned. He knows he needs to kill her but can't bring himself to do it. 

Thanks, I'm amazed people actually remember his name & what he looks like. I remember the character now, but didn't remember anything else about him & if someone didn't post who he was, I'm not sure I would even remember the character.

[catrox14]

Morgan stood out for me because IMO Lennie James was brilliant and made Morgan meaningful. I think he is the best actor the show has ever had.  Morgan saved Rick's life. Rick and Morgan had a great rapport. I cannot wait for them to reunite. I might end up shipping Ricgan over Richonne...

[natyxg]

I couldn't catch the episode tonight, but I did see Beth's death scene and it was... weird. The directing and editing this season continue to baffle me, frankly. It's like they don't give a shit about clarity.

 

Beth goes up to Dawn and whatever, then she seems to do something with her hand and we hear like flesh tearing... but we see shit. We don't see her hand, we don't see the wound, anything. I had to watch it two times before I thought "wait, did Beth stab her with those scissors?" which I thought was weird because it seemed to me like she was aiming for Dawn's middle. I mean, to stab her in the shoulder (was she going for the heart?) she needed to like raise her hand, and I didn't see that.

 

Anyway, so Dawn shoots her and we assume she dies, but we don't see her fall or even see where the fuck she was shot.

 

Like, do these people not remember that we don't have a script, that we go into it cold, and we need clarity to understand what's going on in the scene? I can't become too emotionally invested if I'm scratching my head wondering what just happened. I shouldn't have to watch the scenes various times or find explanations online to understand what happened in the scene, or what I was supposed to be looking out. This is like the third of fourth time I feel this way during this season. Also, I thought they needed to show more grieving of at least Daryl, I wanted him to go to her on the floor or something, not just go from Rick inviting people to come with to the gang leaving the hospital... and even then I was looking Beth over trying to figure out where she was shot, but still couldn't figure it out.

 

I'm not even gonna talk much about  Beth's motivations because I haven't seen the full ep yet so maybe it will make sense when I do, but just from that scene alone her death was really stupid. What was this kid supposed to be thinking? I'm sad she died, though, because she had been growing as a character. I'm actually annoyed that the lame, whimpy priest survived but she didn't.

[Pete Martell]

Anyway, so Dawn shoots her and we assume she dies, but we don't see her fall or even see where the fuck she was shot.

 

She was shot in the head. The back of her head exploded.

[natyxg]

She was shot in the head. The back of her head exploded.

 

Thanks. I was skimming through the thread just now and saw someone mention it so I rewatched on a bigger screen, not my phone, and I saw it. So oops. But I still think the rest.

[LexiconDevilOne]

I didn't like how they didn't show Beth reunite in any meaningful way with the members of the group. Like not so much as a hello.

The most powerful scene of this entire show, was a season opener (I'm pretty sure it was season three) where not a single word was uttered...

Edited December 1, 2014 by LexiconDevilOne

[Donny Ketchum]

I love Maggie, and her having to lose another family member just sucks.

Maggie had another relative?  Who?

[natyxg]

Maggie had another relative?  Who?

 

Hershel was her dad.

[catrox14]

Maggie has lost Hershel, Beth, her mother and half-brother

[bunnyblue]

 

The Hunters made those marks.

 

I think he was following the Terminite's marks, the marks the Terminites were going to use to go back to Terminus.  Naturally the trail ends at the church, but luckily Morgan found the map, so he may start heading to DC to look for Rick there. 

 

D'oh! Now I remember, thank you both! I was wondering why Morgan first headed to the school and then the church. He was tracking the Termites movements. 

 

Carol's magical healing abilities - that is a general tv problem, but I'm okay with it, because it means I won't have to worry about her for a while. 

 

Yeah, Carol recovered pretty quickly. She went from critically ill one day, to waking up the next, and walking out of the hospital with little support an hour or two later. I think Eugene was still unconscious in the firetruck while Carol was already up and around after getting run over by a car.

 

Judith was adorable how she was sound asleep strapped to Carl's back outside the church. That baby really can sleep through the zombie apocalypse. 

 

I've rewatched the final scene many times and almost everyone's reactions were really good and tugged my heartstrings. The only WTF reaction was Abraham. When Maggie starts wailing and drops to the ground, Abe looks over at her like she's crazy. He knows they are there to rescue her sister and Carol; what exactly did he think she was reacting to when they saw Daryl carrying a young girl out of the hospital? Kinda slow at connecting the dots there, Abraham. I liked that Rosita understood what she was seeing and got emotional, even though she'd never met Beth. 

 

I have a slight nitpick about Team Glenn rolling up to the hospital. Michonne must've filled them in on the fact that Carol and Beth were being held against their will but the way they strolled into the parking lot in plain view for anyone in the hospital to see and possibly shoot them seemed careless. I thought Abraham with his military background would have deployed them in a more tactical manner.

[Ronin Jackson]

I'm sad she died, though, because she had been growing as a character.

 

 

That's why she was growing as a character, so you'd be sad when she died.  I suspected she was not long for the show when they gave her her own episode to carry.  By the time Maggie was finally appearing on screen acknowledging and caring about her in this episode, Beth had no chance.  I agree with those who say the writers really bungled the whole Maggie-Beth thing.  Though give Lauren Cohen credit... she gave it her all when the time came for it.

 

For those who hate Gabriel, as soon as he has a redeeming moment and you start to warm to him, he's toast.  It's the formula.

[Bruinsfan]

I think Beth went out in as good a way as she could.  And she didn't get anyone else killed.  

Well, except Dawn. But that's a mark in her favor.

 

That's why FPP went back to the church after - I don't think he really believed that Gareth & co. were cannibals, until he saw the foot. That's when he realized that Rick's group was telling the truth.

Yes, but he saw Bob in person, when Bob was dying, didn't he? He also said he needed to go to the school, which was filled with walkers.. I just don't see why he left the church for that. And of course, he had to bring home a big ole bunch of walkers.

All I can say is, Bob would have to be REALLY committed to pulling the wool over someone's eyes to remove one of his legs in order to sell the story.

 

After seeing the pursuing zombie fall and split her head open on that machete, I'm beginning to think there's something to mustbekarma's divine intervention theory about Father Gabriel.

[Brooke0707]

The most powerful scene of this entire show, was a season opener (I'm pretty sure it was season three) where not a single word was uttered...

 

I don't remember that one off the top of my head.

 

To me, this episode wasn't powerful and it failed. If they were going to kill her anyway without her really reuniting with the group, I think she should have been shot even before she was ushered in by Rick. Because the way it was done, it was like a quiet little reunion in the background and then she gets upset her friend is being held hostage and then she dies. IMO, if they were going to kill her (which I don't think they should have done, but that's another story), they should have either done it after a full-fledged reunion or before she so much as even touched another member of the group. The way it was done, she did reunite with the group, but not in any satisfying way (forget dialogue, the camera wasn't even focused on her reuniting with the group), which I thought lessened the impact of her death. It also lessened the impact because no one mentioned Beth's name other than Daryl for close to the last year.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Brooke0707

[EverCat]

I couldn't catch the episode tonight, but I did see Beth's death scene and it was... weird. The directing and editing this season continue to baffle me, frankly. It's like they don't give a shit about clarity.

Beth goes up to Dawn and whatever, then she seems to do something with her hand and we hear like flesh tearing... but we see shit. We don't see her hand, we don't see the wound, anything. I had to watch it two times before I thought "wait, did Beth stab her with those scissors?" which I thought was weird because it seemed to me like she was aiming for Dawn's middle. I mean, to stab her in the shoulder (was she going for the heart?) she needed to like raise her hand, and I didn't see that.

Like, do these people not remember that we don't have a script, that we go into it cold, and we need clarity to understand what's going on in the scene? I can't become too emotionally invested if I'm scratching my head wondering what just happened. I shouldn't have to watch the scenes various times or find explanations online to understand what happened in the scene, or what I was supposed to be looking out. This is like the third of fourth time I feel this way during this season.

I'm not even gonna talk much about  Beth's motivations because I haven't seen the full ep yet so maybe it will make sense when I do, but just from that scene alone her death was really stupid. What was this kid supposed to be thinking? I'm sad she died, though, because she had been growing as a character. I'm actually annoyed that the lame, whimpy priest survived but she didn't.

 

Agree completely...and I watched the entire episode.   I am going to have to watch this again.  What I 'saw' was Beth stabs Dawn in the neck (severing her jugular). Then someone from the Grimes' Gang shoots Dawn, but, because she is slumping downwards to the floor, Beth accidentally gets shot instead.  This part I only surmised because we hear the shot and then are shown Beth's brains on the ground.   I was like Key when he asked on TD what just happened?

As for Beth saying "I get it now", the only thing that makes sense to me is when a poster earlier compared it to Dawn saying she had to take out Hansen.

 

The pacing in this episode was uneven.  I completed zoned out when Tyrese and Sasha were talking.

I agree with Ronin - I was sure Beth (or possibly Carol) were 'leaving' this ep because of their story arcs. The pattern had just been shown with Bob...As soon as the character becomes interesting and sympathetic they're done.

Edited December 1, 2014 by EverCat

[Desiree]

 And I can't find any of these people hot because I just keep thinking how awful they must all smell.  

 

This show makes me obsess over such weird things.

You're not the only one. Couple weeks ago I was watching and text my best friend that no one showers in the Zombie Apocalypse and I'd probably put a bullet in my head for the smell of it. I get personal hygiene is probably the last thing on anyone's mind when the dead are literally trying to eat you, however how many times have they been looting some house, or how about the church, the executive office that Carol and Daryl were in (which probably had a fully functioning shower), and no one wistfully says they would love to take a hot shower and put on a change of clothes? Geez, I would have been right in the middle of the power wash Eugene gave the Walkers, just to freshen up a bit! 

 

I didn't hate Beth. I wasn't a fan, she was just another character who was there. I was surprised by her demise and did tear up at the end when Daryl was carrying her out and Maggie started to cry. Would have been nice if she'd had more of a storyline then the last two-three episodes.

[Iguessnot]

Beth didn't stab her anywhere near the jugular. It was probably below the collar bone. It looks silly on rewatch seeing those petite pair of scissors sticking out of Dawns dark blue uniform even outside the collar. Heck it's probably firmly implanted in her bullet proof vest. Watch the scene again. After she shoots Beth, it is clear she is not injured at all by those scissors as she is begging for mercy.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Iguessnot

[loki567]

Yeah, that blew. This show does not know how to do a finale right. 

 

It's funny the comparison between how unlikely that Carol's one-woman assault of Terminus would result in zero casualties on our people's side to now Beth unrealistically fubaring a pretty simple prison exchange. And the idea that when Beth and Dawn would kill each other and it wouldn't cause a gunfight. 

 

It was so stupid. Beth's been given more focus than anybody the last sixteen episodes, this is how you get rid of her? Why? Dawn's could almost be considered decent by Walking Dead-standards and it's likely her officers would have taken her out soon. Am I suppose to view it as some great sacrifice? Give me a break. The producers just wanted the big moment that everybody talks about the next day, but the death really doesn't hit hard if it's idiotic and pointless.

[GreyBunny]

Ok, I saw the Beth death scene in slow motion and saw that she stabbed Dawn with a pair of small scissors. Um, what exactly was that supposed to do? It wouldn't kill Dawn...it might just make her mad enough to shoot her. And well, gee, it did.  It would have been better if Beth had stabbed Dawn in the eye. At least that would have done some damage. Just what was Beth trying to do? It would have made more sense for her to try to steal Dawn's gun, or stab Dawn and then try to grab the gun. It was a dumb way for Beth  to get herself killed.

 

Beth was an impulsive dummy but that's par for the course.  If she hadn't re-inserted herself into the situation she could have walked out of there alive and Noah might have been able to come out as well.  She knew the rest of the cops and the wards hated Dawn, she was the new Hansen.  If Beth had stayed put, the rest of the cops could have subdued Dawn and let Noah go.  But no, she had to stab Dawn in the shoulder (instead of the eyeball) with her silly little preschool scissors and get shot for her idiocy.  

 

Her death didn't get to me, and thankfully the show has one less weak actor, but the reactions of the other characters made me teary-eyed.  I'm not sorry Beth is dead but I'm sorry Maggie lost her sister and the others lost their friend.

Edited December 1, 2014 by GreyBunny

[EverCat]

Beth didn't stab her anywhere near the jugular. Watch the scene again. After she shoots Beth, it is clear she is not injured at all by those scissors as she is begging for mercy.

Thanks - I will have to. I knew Beth had those little scissors she had hidden earlier and since we didn't actually see her stab Dawn, I assumed (at the time) that Beth was going to do some actual damage with the scissors. An eyeball could have worked too.

[CletusMusashi]

Please no more eyeball stabs. I don't want to sit through Pirate Dawn and her long phony redemption arc.

[Black Knight]

Lauren Cohan is a good actress and she gave her all to the scenes where Maggie finds out the group knows where Beth is and when she finds out Beth is dead...but it was just too little too late given the writing that's had her ignore her sister's existence for so long and thus left me completely unmoved. It doesn't help that I watch TWD right after Once Upon a Time, where one of the main plotlines of this season has been a woman looking determinedly and desperately for her sister. And as it happens, tonight was the night she finally reunited with her sister and that was so much more emotionally affecting and convincing for me because, you know, OUaT had devoted screentime to her search (as well as to how much the sisters love each other and are continually concerned for each other). So the contrast with OUaT definitely did not help.

 

I'm just relieved that it was Beth who bit it, because out of all the female characters on the show, she was the one I didn't mind losing due to her being played by Emily Kinney, who I'm sure is a lovely person but is the most limited actress of the bunch. The only thing I'm sorry about is that Beth didn't get to smack Maggie first for being a shitty sister. (But, at least now that Beth is dead, I can go back to unreservedly liking Maggie because I don't have to think about the Beth thing anymore.)

 

It seemed to me that there were a couple of ways that the standoff over Noah could have been avoided. First, I don't think Dawn was originally going to ask for him - it seemed like that her demand was prompted when she heard her group whispering about something behind her. Since she's paranoid, I think she thought they were grumbling about Noah, as she mentioned that officers had risked their lives to go looking for him, and she and most of her group were under the impression that that one cop had died as a result, and so she thought it would make her look weak in front of her people not to insist on Noah's return. If it hadn't been for the whispering behind her, she might not have gone to crazytown.

 

The second way the standoff could maybe have been avoided is if Rick hadn't decided to kill the runaway cop. If he'd kept him alive, he would've had three cops to trade and Dawn could have accepted that without loss of face since it would have been a trade of equal numbers. When watching the opening, I'd thought that Rick made a dumb decision to kill the cop, because it seemed like a poor strategic move to reduce the number of hostages he had available, and that was underlined for me by the end.

 

Third, and easiest of all, Noah should have stayed outside, out of Dawn's sight. Bringing the runaway along was another poor strategic decision.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Black Knight

[Iguessnot]

Seriously, given how paranoid Dawn was, why would you have Noah in the hallway to poke the bear.

[nomodrama]

That was beyond stupid....I'm actually quite pissed at this ending. All that trouble to have the first Darly and Carol go try and save Beth, Carol gets hit by a car, the whole group then has to go in for round 2 to now try and save both of them and then stupid Beth gets herself killed! That was just beyond dumb....what did she think she was going to do to Dawn with those stupid little scissors.....now I'm going to be pissed until February....and then I'll get pissed all over again.

[Brooke0707]

I so resent that Beth 1) didn't even kill Dawn - Daryl had to do that for her and she was essentially incompetent during her last moments; and 2) she did what she did for Noah and had a moment with him - Noah of all people. Not Maggie or Daryl or someone from the core group, but some random who we were just introduced to a few episodes ago.

I doubt the day will ever come where I give even the slightest shit about 90% of the newbies.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Brooke0707

[morgankobi]

The whole time Dawn was sitting on Carol's bed blathering on, and the shot was wide enough to show the whole bed, I was just WAITING for Carol to sit up and grab her.