S25.E08: Hot Sexy Knights

[tds444]

Well, it would potentially force them to burn the "Save"...

the save expires after next leg though

[Lingo]

I think one of the things you have to stay away from in writing rules for games and sports is intent. (Even football rules like "roughing the passer" or "intentional grounding" have technical defintions, they don't actually get into what the player "meant" to do).

 

If they want someone to be at risk to mistakenly waste a U-Turn, then they have to allow them to make that "mistake" strategically. That's why intentional walks in baseball and onside kicks in football are allowed.

 

OK, I think that's a good point.  But the producers could at least make it illegal for the 2nd U-Turning team to "waste" the U-Turn on the first U-Turning team.  After all, the first team's faces are on the U-turn board, so the second team can't claim they didn't know the first team got there first.

 

ETA: As poorly planned as this upcoming U-Turn seems to be, at least the producers placed it after the last leg in which the Express Pass could be used.  It would have been especially unfair if a team could just use the Pass to bypass the Detour altogether and go straight to the U-Turn board to u-turn an unpopular team like the cyclists (although Adam and Bethany don't seem like the kind of people who would do that).

 

Well, it would potentially force them to burn the "Save"...

 

That would have been a good reason last time, but next leg is the last leg the Save can be used, so the Dentists are already going to lose it one way or another.

 

I've only seen the relevant clips once, but for the record, I do think Kym was serious about canceling that taxi, and I don't like that kind of thing in the race (saying you're gonna call a cab for a team, and then not doing so), it feels unsportsmanlike to me.  And yet I still want the Cyclists in the Final 3, and not the Wrestlers.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Lingo

[RedheadZombie]

That's very true, but I have to admit, if I were falling off near the yellow flag, the temptation to reach out and grab it would be pretty hard to resist, almost reflexive.

 

I agree, could you imagine the bitching that would have happened if the person who got the yellow flag deliberately chose to fall instead?  I thought they were overlooking the obvious.  There were two flags of each color.  Why didn't the team member who got the yellow flag, dispose of the yellow flag and go collect the red.  That would lead the less athletic team member going for the second yellow flag.

 

I don't care if the cyclists get U-turned out or end up in Alaska with a note telling them the race is over and to make their own way home, so long as they they don't win. When they cancelled (or tried to cancel -- it wasn't clear if their cabbie went along with it) Brooke and Robbie's cab, they lost any moral high ground against other teams allegedly playing dirty. I'm not wild about the U-turn, but it's part of the game and within the rules, whereas interfering with another team, as the cyclists were doing, is not.

 

I don't know why the cyclists were even obligated to call a cab for the very ungrateful, constantly bitching, ass is her moneymaker wrestler.  Considering this is the team who planned the gang up on the cyclists, I actually hope that they cancelled their cab.

[Netfoot]

I don't know why the cyclists were even obligated to call a cab for the very ungrateful, constantly bitching, ass is her moneymaker wrestler.  Considering this is the team who planned the gang up on the cyclists, I actually hope that they cancelled their cab.

 

Here's a tip for when we are on the race together:  Don't ask me for any kind of help. 

 

When I am on the race, I won't speak a single truthful word to anyone.  I'll make (and break) any promise necessary to improve my position.  If you ask me the time, I will give you a wrong answer.  In fact, the only time I will tell anyone the truth is if I conclude it will screw over the competition worse than telling a lie.  And I'll warn the entire cast that this is my plan, in episode one.  Then they won't have any reason to be surprised or angry when they ask me where the cluebox is, and I direct them to the bus station in an adjoining country.

 

Not only will I cancel your taxi, I'll hide your luggage, flush your passport down the toilet, super-glue your hotel room door shut and inform Customs & Excise that you're smuggling guns.  And when you try to U-Turn me for revenge, you'll find your U-Turn photo will have been stolen.  Provided, of course, that these actions aren't banned by race rules!  Because if it isn't against the rules, then it's fair game!

 

Further more, I will expect exactly the same treatment from the other teams, in return.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

It seems like deliberately terrible race design. One of the questions asked about the Save in previous threads was whether the final U-Turn would come before or after it expires. Since the U-Turn will come first (and the ferry conversation felt almost as if teams knew that fact) the Save becomes a direct ticket to the Final 4, because there's no incentive to U-Turn a team with immunity. Having it directly afterwards, with that invulnerability finally lifted, would be much more interesting. It's allowed the dentists to participate in (and encourage) this kind of plotting even through they're a strong team that under normal circumstances would be a target. Hate it even more than I dislike the U-Turn.

 

It really was a shame that they weren't u turned at the first leg, but they were like second weren't they? I hope they realise the save was a bad idea and we never see it again. or at the very least give them less time to use it.  I think part of the problem is there really hasn't been a huge amount of competition for the Dentists this season.  I don't know the numbers for sure but of the 6 teams coming in I don't think three of them had come in higher than third.  Brooke and Robbie and TNT both seemed to be one/two stops ahead of last all season.  I'm sure there was an exception or two but that's how it feels generally

[tds444]

I noticed that at the last u-turn leg they put the u-turn at the very end of leg,so that whoever got it had virtually no chance to catch up. I didn't care about Whitney/Keith leaving but I thought it was poor leg design. If they were to put it at the beginning,I could see the cyclists being strong enough racers to pass B/R or A/M. But my thought is that the U turn will again be put at the end of the leg,giving them no opportunity to come back.

[TheOriginalDonald]

Sad to see Tim and TJ go.  I really thought he could get to that red flag.  Then they almost pulled it out with the polishing.

 

I hope the wrestlers go next. 

 

I'm on the Scientist's team, but anybody than the dentists.

EXACTLY! Anyone who would ally themselves with those scorpions have to ask themselves one question.....(whzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) #ISITSAFE???????????????????????????????????????????????????

I noticed that at the last u-turn leg they put the u-turn at the very end of leg,so that whoever got it had virtually no chance to catch up. I didn't care about Whitney/Keith leaving but I thought it was poor leg design. If they were to put it at the beginning,I could see the cyclists being strong enough racers to pass B/R or A/M. But my thought is that the U turn will again be put at the end of the leg,giving them no opportunity to come back.

Unless they get there second, knowing FULL WELL #ISITSAFE is behind them, and sanity is restored and Jim and Misti are #PHILIMINATED!

(what do you mean they still have the Save?)

[TheOriginalDonald]

Here's a tip for when we are on the race together:  Don't ask me for any kind of help. 

 

When I am on the race, I won't speak a single truthful word to anyone.  I'll make (and break) any promise necessary to improve my position.  If you ask me the time, I will give you a wrong answer.  In fact, the only time I will tell anyone the truth is if I conclude it will screw over the competition worse than telling a lie.  And I'll warn the entire cast that this is my plan, in episode one.  Then they won't have any reason to be surprised or angry when they ask me where the cluebox is, and I direct them to the bus station in an adjoining country.

 

Not only will I cancel your taxi, I'll hide your luggage, flush your passport down the toilet, super-glue your hotel room door shut and inform Customs & Excise that you're smuggling guns.  And when you try to U-Turn me for revenge, you'll find your U-Turn photo will have been stolen.  Provided, of course, that these actions aren't banned by race rules!  Because if it isn't against the rules, then it's fair game!

 

Further more, I will expect exactly the same treatment from the other teams, in return.

Hiding the luggage comes with a time penalty. Just ask Flight Time and Big Easy

[cooksdelight]

(what do you mean they still have the Save?)

Jim and Misti still have the Save. To use or not to use in the next leg of the race. It's the last time they can use it, but if they don't come in last, they don't have to use it.

So, the only reason to U-turn them would be to keep Jim from getting his record of most leg wins.

[TheOriginalDonald]

I despise Brooke. That is all.

The Beautiful People apporved this message #TNAKnockouts

I like all the teams left, including the Wrestlers - Brooke cracks me up as a cartoonish character, particularly when she starts complaining about things we know (as in every cartoon) will turn right for her/her team. I suspect when/if she stops complaining is when that team will/would be eliminated.

 

After seeing interaction betweem cyclists ans dentists previously, it's interesting to see that overall team dentist is liked more by other contestants than team cyclists. It's not a huge surprise, as we've seen team dentists help other teams in the past, but it's interesting that editing is showing it to us now. Methings it means cyclists will be Uturned next week.

 

UNLESS........Kym and Alli get there first, in which case #ISITSAFE??????? will prove to be the scorpions they are

It seems like deliberately terrible race design. One of the questions asked about the Save in previous threads was whether the final U-Turn would come before or after it expires. Since the U-Turn will come first (and the ferry conversation felt almost as if teams knew that fact) the Save becomes a direct ticket to the Final 4, because there's no incentive to U-Turn a team with immunity. Having it directly afterwards, with that invulnerability finally lifted, would be much more interesting. It's allowed the dentists to participate in (and encourage) this kind of plotting even through they're a strong team that under normal circumstances would be a target. Hate it even more than I dislike the U-Turn.

#ISITSAFE in 5th=They'd have to hope a bottleneck happens

WHich does on EVERY EPISODE unfortunately, because the producers can't have anyone suffer the same fate as Team Guido in Season ONe.

[TheOriginalDonald]

I am happy that Tim and Te Jay are gone.   Their shrieky, affected personas really grated on me.    They weren't very good at the tasks either.   Maybe he would have gotten farther on the pole if he didn't run like Mrs. Howell.

 

Hate the schoolyard taint that was introduced in this episode.  "Let's double-detour the cyclists because they won't sit with us."   Sucks that the cyclists should come so far on their strength and ability and potentially be undone by the pettiness of inferior racers.   This isn't Survivor, and I don't want it to become Survivor.   "Social game" should not be an element of the Amazing Race.   From my measure of Jim the Dentist, I don't think he'll go along with it.   He's an achiever and I think he respects other achievers, even if he's competing against them.   Can't see him getting down in the mud with the wrestler witch.  Ditto for Bethany and Adam. 

 

P.S. Thanks, ElectricBoogaloo, for the behind-the-scenes look at false eyelashes. 

If that would mean #ISITSAFE??????????? has a better chance of winning....JIM WOULD U-TURN KYM AND ALLI IN A HEARTBEAT!

[scrb]

Jim and Misti have to be seen as the favorites.

That should be a reason to u turn them, even if they have a save.

[shura]

If you think about it and remember that all of this has already happened, shouldn't the fact that we the viewers know about the Save mean that it WILL be used in the next leg? If it's not used and ends up having had no bearing on the Race, why not simply edit it out? Never show Phil announcing it, never show the Dentists getting it or anybody speaking about it... Even the Dentists' attempt to surrender it in their NEL can be edited to remove it. I mean, yes, our knowing about the Save adds a little bit to thinking about strategy and such, but it's not like it enriches the viewers' experience that much.

 

Then they won't have any reason to be surprised or angry when they ask me where the cluebox is, and I direct them to the bus station in an adjoining country.

 

Please, as if they have to have a reason to be surprised and angry. They will be angry even if you have them sign a waiver beforehand.

[millennium]

If that would mean #ISITSAFE??????????? has a better chance of winning....JIM WOULD U-TURN KYM AND ALLI IN A HEARTBEAT!

 

Perhaps.   But for the sake of strategy, not spite.

[Latverian Diplomat]

OK, I think that's a good point.  But the producers could at least make it illegal for the 2nd U-Turning team to "waste" the U-Turn on the first U-Turning team.  After all, the first team's faces are on the U-turn board, so the second team can't claim they didn't know the first team got there first.

Yes, you are right, that's a good rule idea that could be easily enforced and eliminates a "risk free" choice when trying to waste the U-Turn intentionally. I would 100% support that change. Well done.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[netlyon2]

I don't understand all the other teams ganging up on the Cyclists, the Dentists have won more legs than anyone else and they seem to be good at getting the other teams to help take out their strongest competition.  I wonder if there's more we're not seeing that makes all the other teams anti-cyclists.

 

The Cyclists kinda bug.   First everyone boring and sticks in the muds.   Now when they want to just be by themselves and relax the others are wrong for wanting them to mingle.   I think the Cyclists think they are just cooler than everyone else on the whole planet.   

My guess would be that this is the accumulation of snide comments and petty actions throughout the race.  We've seen a few (making fun of everyone else for not going to a pub, writing on Jim and Misti's window--which the other teams might have seen and figured out, sniping about how Misti doesn't sweat), which some viewers (and I'm sure the cyclists themselves) would not see as a big deal.  However, as someone who finds them utterly exhausting and tiresome, I can certainly see how the other teams would be tired of them, especially if that's their ongoing behavior.  While Jim is intense and Misti's a little goofy, they don't seem anywhere near as malicious as the cyclists can be. 

 

The Wrestlers were gung-ho about a U-turn alliance, while the other teams seemed to have various levels of investment.  From a strategic standpoint, it makes sense to join an alliance that you know is brewing to U-turn another team when the other team is a threat and you don't particularly like them anyway.  This is far from a Twin Hunt.

 

 

They might have except every team did it wrong.  They went for the easy one first which meant one person was shut out at the very start leaving one person (and from what i could tell the less capable of the pair) to try for the harder flag.  Ignore the yellow flag and both go for the red.  It didn't help that every single time they slowed when they got to the grease.

I totally agree.  Furthermore, I wanted each person who got stuck with the red flag to tell his/her partner to demonstrate how to succeed if it were so easy.  Get the red flag yourself, and then let's talk about how you did it so I can be as awesome as you!

 

 

Well part of the problem of course is the damn Save.  Is there any point to u-turning the Dentists if you know they aren't gonna be eliminated and you're just gonna piss them off, and maybe temporarily put them behind?  Granted, this is likely the last U-Turn so the Dentists can't get revenge, but still there's little point.

This is so interesting to me.  IMO, the Save has been almost neutralized by the consistently high performance of the team that won it (combined with the NEL on their one bad leg).  I see it (and the Express Pass) as a strategic non-issue due to the strength of the team.  All of the strategery discussion that I've seen has centered on how to render it ineffective, but the Dentists have been rendering it ineffective themselves.

 

 

Brooke and Robbie reminds me of a less annoying version of Flo and Zach. I adored Zach, and for the most part do not mind Robbie even if he is a little dim, but Brooke drives me insane. If the race isn't going perfectly for them she gets all defeatist. She hasn't gone all Flo-like, but she is still irritating.

I think being physically strong and generally competitive will keep Brooke from going full-on Flo, but boy does she have the defeatist verbal Flo down!  I really hope they're out next, preferably in a spectacular fashion that directly results from Brooke's whining and wanting to quit.

[etagloh]

 

If it's not used and ends up having had no bearing on the Race, why not simply edit it out?

 

Because it's clearly a massive part of the grand strategy and narrative of this season of TAR, just like the $2 million prize for the first-leg winners in S21. It's perhaps even more important to have it looming in the edit even if there was always a strong chance it wouldn't be used, because of how it alters the inter-team dynamics. It's not going to be edited out like tasks have been in the past.

 

 

I see it (and the Express Pass) as a strategic non-issue due to the strength of the team.

 

It's surely more than that because of its influence on other teams. Even strong teams have bad days, and if bad days don't really matter, then other teams won't exploit them when they're given the opportunity. Had the dentists been rewarded for their first leg win by a fortnight's vacation and a direct flight to the start of leg 10, it'd be functionally the same as the Save, but the effect would be very different.

Edited November 23, 2014 by etagloh

[tds444]

I think the save is a really bad concept because non elimination legs are saves.

 

the cyclists remind me a bit of brooke and claire,running their own race,snarky,but rootable. And also Kym yells at  Alli the way Brooke yelled at Claire

[Netfoot]

IMO, the Save has been almost neutralized by the consistently high performance of the team that won it (combined with the NEL on their one bad leg).  I see it (and the Express Pass) as a strategic non-issue due to the strength of the team.  All of the strategery discussion that I've seen has centered on how to render it ineffective, but the Dentists have been rendering it ineffective themselves.

 

But the effect on the save is on how it alters the probability of the outcome of the race. 

 

The winner of the Save is the team that wins a leg against the largest field of opposition in the entire race.  This tends to put the Save into the hands of a team that race well.  Teams that race well already have a high probability of doing well in the race.  Chances are they'll make it into the F3 and possibly even win.  Of course, even a good team can screw up and end up last, hoping for an NEL to save them.  This is what happened to the Dentists this season.  But on average, there is an X% chance that they will go on and reach the F3, maybe even win.  I don't have a value for X, but I think it's probably high for a team that has shown it can win the first leg with maximum competition.

 

Now you throw in the Save, which guarantees that if they screw up, an NEL will save them.  This increases the value of X.  Also, if they screw up on a regular NEL leg, they get to keep their Save so as to be able to screw up again!  So X increases to an even higher value. 

 

On top of this, the knowledge that they hold the Save makes a team an unlikely target for the U- or W-Turn.  Obviously, this is an advantage for that team, so once again, probability X increases.  The Save could also affect race tactics for the team that holds it.  They might, for example, choose a riskier, but faster option save that if the risk goes against them, they will be Saved.  I'm not sure this actually affects their overall probability of success, but reduced KF from not worrying about elimination for most of the race will certainly have a positive effect on their chance of winning.

 

Essentially then, the Save takes a team with a high probability of getting into the F3 and even winning, and significantly increases that probability to something approaching a certainty.  As far as I'm concerned (and I am 100% unspoilt), the Dentists will win this race, and essentially won it back in leg #1.  And if the Save returns in subsequent races, we'll get to see teams far less competent than Jim & Misti win the race in leg #1 too.

[jjj]

I agree with Netfoot about the Save increasing the chance that a team will end up in the F3.  But the Dentists have also shown that they are one of the best competing teams in TAR history, so if they are in the F3 and then win the Race, it is because they are exceptional competitors.  They are not people I'd probably want to hang with in real life, but they have consistently supported each other and are considerate of other Racers; you know we would have seen any rude behavior if it had occurred, because somehow, the Amazing Editors have created a sense of dislike about the Dentists that the weekly forums buy into.  They are too polished, their teeth are too white, and Jim has a thyroid condition (or other physical condition) that makes his eyes bulge and therefore is scary.  If we swapped out every decision and line of dialogue of the Dentists with the Surfers, everyone would be in lurve because they are lovely and overcoming the lack of an arm.  And we already love the Surfers because they also are great competitors on top of being lovely and weekly amazing us with Bethany's physical skills. 

[Packerbrewerbadger]

Loved how when Amy and Maya were going up th steps to the pit stop, Maya yells " Oh Phiiiilllll!

[auntlada]

The Wrestlers were gung-ho about a U-turn alliance, while the other teams seemed to have various levels of investment.  From a strategic standpoint, it makes sense to join an alliance that you know is brewing to U-turn another team when the other team is a threat and you don't particularly like them anyway.  This is far from a Twin Hunt.

 

I think it makes sense for the wrestlers to start a U-turn alliance (although I think they did it from a personal viewpoint rather than strategic) because they are one of the teams that will benefit the most from a team besides them being U-turned. If they get to the U-turn spot towards the end, and they probably will, they're likely to get U-turned. If they can get everyone to agree to U-turn the cyclists and waste the other U-turn on someone already in front, then they have guaranteed they won't be U-turned (as long as the cyclists don't get there first). And then they might have a chance to not come in last, although if anyone here is going to anyway, it's probably the wrestlers.

[Donny Ketchum]

So, the only reason to U-turn them would be to keep Jim from getting his record of most leg wins.

Except even then, he can't get it.  Adam & Bethany winning this leg pretty much ended any chance he had of him and Misti breaking the record.  At this point, they can only tie Rachel & Dave's record of eight wins.  And if Adam & Bethany win the next leg due to the Fast Forward, then the best they can hope for is tying Nick & Starr and Meghan & Cheyne's seven wins.  So not much to stop here.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[cooksdelight]

Ah, Donny, ye of a wealth of knowledge and trivia, thank you. :)

[Camera One]

I felt badly for Amy especially on the stairs.  They were lucky though the next task was in the morning, or they could have been last.  I'm glad Amy insisted on switching at the Flag task.  I would have expected Maya would have recognized that they couldn't have done it, especially since the spectators were so nice to point out that if they couldn't run, there was no chance they can do the task.  That's surprisingly helpful of them.

 

I was cheering for T&T as well, so I was disappointed they chose the wrong detour and stuck with it for so long.  As someone else said above, I would have liked Adam and Bethany to try it since at least they could show that the task was possible.  If anyone could do it, it would have been them.  Alternatively, they could have said each team had to get 3 out of the 4 flags, and each teammate had to get at least one.  So then, Te Jay could try for the Red one as well.

 

The cab ending seemed exaggerated for drama.  Did the Wrestlers have to start with a new suit of unpolished armor, or did they continue with their previous one?  The only chance was for T&T to switch at the same time as the Wrestlers, but I think with the pole thing, one might think *one more try* and they could get it... so in reach and yet so far.

 

The Dentists were strong as usual, though I was surprised they took longer to realized they missed the Detour instructions.  The rappelling showed that Misti could be very competent as well.

 

Brooke really has to whine about everything, doesn't she?  Though weirdly, she has grown on me a little.  Even so, I wish they had gone out instead of T&T.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Camera One

[Muffyn]

Brooke is one of those people who think bad things "just happen" to them & that they have no influence on the consequences that befall on them.  Brooke, you're so tired of coming in last?  You can't believe it always comes down to bad luck with cabs?  Here's a thought...stop running across the entire friggin' city screaming "Taxi!!!".  Try using your own damn eyeballs and scoping out the area before & after the tasks.  No other team seems to have as hard a time as you finding transportation.  In fact, many of them appear to practically run into a gaggle of taxis as soon as they finish a RB.  Oh, and STFU and stop mimicking other people.  You're rude and disrespectful.  Your BF may be a little dopey, but at least he tries.  He's a little bit charming and self-deprecating so he is likeable.  You are not.

We have actually seen other teams ask locals where they would recommend they go to get a cab.  Brooke and Robbie just run while she shrieks - effective.  You nailed it - the world happens to her.  The best racers make their own luck or at least do everything they can to reduce the need for luck and rely on acquired knowledge.  

Another problem with the way the teams did it was that the first member of the team to attempt it was probably the more athletically inclined one, but he/she would naturally go for the flag that was easier to get. Which left the poorer athlete with the more demanding task.

 

I agree, could you imagine the bitching that would have happened if the person who got the yellow flag deliberately chose to fall instead?  I thought they were overlooking the obvious.  There were two flags of each color.  Why didn't the team member who got the yellow flag, dispose of the yellow flag and go collect the red.  That would lead the less athletic team member going for the second yellow flag.

I wonder if there was something in the rules that said once you got a flag you couldn't go back for a different color.  If the first team member got yellow, then the second team member got yellow, they could each keep trying for red, reducing the possible dependency on the less athletic team member being the only one trying for the hardest flag and reducing the strain on that person.  That task looked exhausting given how many times they had to try.  

 

Weirdly I've done a similar kind of greased pole run and kicked it ass, much to the chagrin of all of the beefy and athletic guys around me (out of shape fat chick for the win!).  You do need to be able to run, so Amy was out from the start.  You need to talk long strides and turn your feet out.  With Tim running so slowly and tentatively he was never going to reach the flag.  You need to try to plan your fall to stay close to the pole to hope you can get the flag.  And mostly you need to be confident and to put the fear of falling out of your mind.  A few of these teams were out of this task the second they saw it.  If Amy wasn't injured I actually think she and Maya would have had a good chance of getting it because they would have thought through the mechanics. 

[tds444]

Alli said on twitter that the same team member wasn't allowed to go for both flags

[MortysCleaningLady]

I totally want to vacation in Malta after that episode. 

 

Hope the wrestlers leave next -- everyone else seems to be working hard to stay and enjoying their time on the race.  If Robbie had a different partner, the same could be said of them.

[Mreid]

Brooke....good gawd she drove me crazy this episode. Brooke your in freaking Malta!!! for crying out loud embrace the moment good lord. And thank you Adam and Bethany for using that Express Pass because if you didnt team teeth would have finished first again! I didnt think that flag challenge would be so hard but none of the teams were able to complete it so it must have been a lot harder than it looked. Maya running them laps at the pitstop was funny, you would have thought they finished first as happy as she was. So long Tim and Tejay you guys had a great run and Malta was a great place to end the race for sure. I believe they are going to Singapore next. Double U turn next week I figured one would happen soon, that should be interesting.

[Netfoot]

I agree with Netfoot about the Save increasing the chance that a team will end up in the F3.  But the Dentists have also shown that they are one of the best competing teams in TAR history, so if they are in the F3 and then win the Race, it is because they are exceptional competitors.

 

I think it's true that the Dentists are a very strong team with a high probability of an F3 finish, and even a win.  Unless they have some sort of bad luck next leg, then they won't need to use the Save, and their final outcome will be due to their own natural abilities.  But this is exactly the sort of team that doesn't need the additional advantage of a safety net like the Save. 

 

So, you might say the Save didn't really affect the outcome.  But think of the next and subsequent races, where the Save is won by teams which are good, but maybe without quite the awesome race-ability of the Dentists.  These teams X% probability of success will also be increased to near certainty as well! 

[erikgbx]

 

They are not people I'd probably want to hang with in real life, but they have consistently supported each other and are considerate of other Racers;

 

Just a hunch- but I think that the Save also contributed to this as well.

 

As long as they have it, they go through each leg with no fear of being eliminated- which must relieve a HUGE amount of pressure. Their personalities just scream meltdown, but as you pointed out they have been consistently supportive and considerate.

 

I would love to be proven wrong, and we will see what happens once Leg 10 begins.

[Wandering Snark]

Whilest I enjoyed people saying they couldn't "root" for the dentitsts, I just wanted to mention this was a particularly relevant turn of phrase for this leg of the race:

 

 

Te Jay has tarnished due to his own behaviour.

 

I kept wondering why the racers looked, well, sooty? During their talking portions until I saw that everyone got smeared with the polishing paste.

 

I must also concur with the choruses of 'Shut up Brooke' and 'Bethany rocks!'.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Wandering Snark

[shortsummers]

I can think of a number of reasons to U-Turn the Jim and Misti in spite of the Save. 

 

First, to save your own team.  The U-Turn has been used so much lately to eliminate strong teams or for spite, it's easy to forget its most valuable use.  Its not so important that the team you use it on be eliminated, what's most important is that your team NOT be eliminated.

 

Second, to potentially put them on a later flight or in inferior seats in the next leg.  Though there have been bunch up points in every leg, it doesn't mean that there are no disadvantages to finishing last.  And at this stage of the race, every little bit helps.

 

Third, to tire them out.  Some detours can be quite exhausting.  Making them do both detours might tire them out for the next leg of the race.

 

Fourth, to keep Jim from framing the Save on his wall and bragging to  every visitor that he was so good, he didn't even need to use TAR's stinking Save.

 

As for the theory that Jim & Misti having the Save has made them nicer and more helpful to other teams knowing that they cannot be eliminated that leg, I disagree with this.  I would like to point out that Jim was very helpful to other teams on the first leg in the compass challenge, and was before they got the Save.

 

[Muffyn]

If a team is battling for last with the dentists they should definitely U turn them,  The dentists can use the save but the other team can keep themselves from coming in last.  Makes sense to me.

[ProfCrash]

Just a hunch- but I think that the Save also contributed to this as well.

 

As long as they have it, they go through each leg with no fear of being eliminated- which must relieve a HUGE amount of pressure. Their personalities just scream meltdown, but as you pointed out they have been consistently supportive and considerate.

 

I would love to be proven wrong, and we will see what happens once Leg 10 begins.

I don't agree with this. They had two bad legs a little while back. Yes, they had the Save and they thought that they had to use it, but as things were going south Jim supported Misti while she was struggling with the tasks. I don't think it was because they knew that they were protected but because that is who they are as people.

 

They are intense and can be a bit boastful (MCAT scores, we did this that and the other thing, we are awesome flash the pearly whites) but they have been calm dealing with each other, polite to the locals, helped other teams out in the middle of the competition, and have maintained a pretty level head. I actually think they would be better received if we had not heard about how high their MCAT's were (high enough for Jim to not finish medical school and become a dentist) and the other stuff. Actually, I am not sure about that. There is something about them that just rubs the wrong way. For me, I think it is the fact that they don't seem to be enjoying themselves. They are so intense that they don't seem to appreciate what they are doing and were they are. Perhaps that is how they prevent themselves from losing focus but I like to see people do well and have some fun. Hence, liking Bethany and Adam and Amy and Maya. I actually even like the cyclists.

 

Jim and Misti just don't seem to be having fun or taking time to enjoy the experience. They are all business. They are polite and efficient and effective but they are not fun.

[Haleth]

They seemed to be enjoying themselves with the other teams on the ferry.

 

I wonder if the Save has screwed up any of the timing for eliminations.  Were the producers counting on someone having used it by now so that there is actually one fewer team than planned?  Or where they hoping no one would use it and if for some reason the dentists pull it out next week there will actually be an extra team than planned?  Will they have to add or toss out a NEL to get the right number of teams in the finale?

[Lamb18]

Regarding that greased pole challenge, I was wondering, too, if coating the bottoms of your feet with sand would have helped.  But I can't recall if there was any sand there or if it was all concrete to the water. Although that challenge was very difficult I think a lot of teams psyched themselves out over it, too, and got a mental block over the greasy part.  I'd have thought the grease would have started wearing off from repeated foot traffic.  Adam and Bethany would have had the best shot of completing that task successfully but they had to use their Express Pass.

 

Actually I think Jim is probably a sweet guy when he is out of competition beast-mode (TM Caleb BB).  Secret code name "Molar" - ha!  and "Cuspid!"  I cannot stand Brooke now.  I find unkindness a big turnoff and her mocking of Amy's limp was totally rude.  It's like she has some compulsion to be constantly funny for the camera so she'll take a cheap shot at someone if there's no better material around to use.

[fib]

I don't agree with this. They had two bad legs a little while back. Yes, they had the Save and they thought that they had to use it, but as things were going south Jim supported Misti while she was struggling with the tasks. I don't think it was because they knew that they were protected but because that is who they are as people.

I think it's much easier to be generous of spirit to a struggling partner when you know a big mess up won't cost you the rest of the race. Maybe that is who they are as people (they do seem spectacularly positive), but I don't think we can know whether or not one of them would be an asshat if staring down elimination based on what we've seen. We have seen them being strategic about who does which task (Misty doing tasks even when they were behind) because they knew they had the save if Misty didn't do the task as fast as Jim would be able to. Even that's a pretty significant advantage.  Everyone else has to balance their roadblock choice based on placement and ability (for this task and future unknown tasks), Jim and Misty have just been able to pick based on ability.  Even that is a big stress relief. (Kind of like what the Beekmans experienced: they had no real interest in winning, just in not showing a bad face that would hurt their reputation... it changed the race dynamics significantly)

All of which is to say: I am reserving judgement until the save is gone and there is less race fodder. They do seem to have a race-friendly combination of brains and brawn.  I think they'll continue to do well. But if they end up racing for third with no save to get into the final? That will be when we see their true colors. 

[proserpina65]

And I really hate the super alliance thing. Ooooh, let's take another team down....because they want to sit by themselves!

 

Given that all of the other teams were quick to agree, I suspect there's more to the dislike of the Cyclists than just them wanting to sit by themselves.  Yeah, they're a pretty tough team, but so are the Dentists and the other teams seem to like them.  Maybe it's just wanting to get a competitive team out of the way; maybe there's been more less than pleasant back-and-forth between the Cyclists and the other teams than we've been shown.

[Bryce Lynch]

 

 

I don't know why the cyclists were even obligated to call a cab for the very ungrateful, constantly bitching, ass is her moneymaker wrestler.  Considering this is the team who planned the gang up on the cyclists, I actually hope that they cancelled their cab.

 

I don't think the cyclists were at all obligated to call a cab for the wrestlers, but saying they would and then telling the driver to cancel the call was dirty play, IMHO, and just another reason why they are IMO the least likable team. They should have just said, "Sorry, we can't help you, we're in a RAAAAAACE!" What they did might be legal, but it is also good cause for other teams to U-Turn you, if they get the chance.

 

IIRC, another team asked Adam and Bethany, who were returning from a task (the Knight's table, maybe) and Adam gave some vague answer like "far away".  That is totally fair, IMO.  But, if Adam told them to make a left and go 2 miles, when it was really straight ahead, I'd consider that dirty play. 

[proserpina65]

I don't know why the cyclists were even obligated to call a cab for the very ungrateful, constantly bitching, ass is her moneymaker wrestler

 

They were under no obligation to do so UNTIL they said they would.  Not doing so after agreeing to it or getting their driver to cancel the other cab (assuming they were serious and not just joking) would be a shitty thing to do, no matter the teams involved.  Again, this is assuming any cancellation comments were serious, which we can't really know for sure one way or the other.

[tds444]

Well I imagine they were quick to agree because

 

1)the wrestlers and the sweet scientists probably need someone to be u-turned in order to make the final 3. An "As long as it's not me" strategy

  

And 2) The other strongest team has the save.

 

When the cyclists won leg 4,Copenhagen they used a band member's phone to get them a flight 2 hours earlier than all the other teams,while the other teams waited forever at that travel agency. I think maybe the other teams don't like the unique tactics that cyclists use to get themselves places faster.But I personally like teams that run their own race. 

[K2DangerGirl]

I did (literally) laugh out loud when Bethany (who is awesome and seems very nice but also seems a bit dim) asked the falconer "What kind of bird is that?" But Mr. DangerGirl thinks I'm being unreasonable since she's pretty young and probably doesn't spend a lot of time watching Humphrey Bogart movies.  (Or reading.)

[Netfoot]

I wonder if the Save has screwed up any of the timing for eliminations.  Were the producers counting on someone having used it by now so that there is actually one fewer team than planned?  Or where they hoping no one would use it and if for some reason the dentists pull it out next week there will actually be an extra team than planned?  Will they have to add or toss out a NEL to get the right number of teams in the finale?

 

Next episode (#9) is the last opportunity to use the Save.  Assuming that it is not used, I predict that the following leg (#10) will be a scheduled NEL.  However, should the Save be used on leg#9, the NEL schedules for leg#10 will be cancelled to compensate.  Either way, we get four teams starting leg#11 which will finish with an elimination as usual, leaving three teams to race for the finish in leg#12. 

 

This means that the viewers -- and racers -- will know for certain (assuming the Save isn't used) that leg#10 will be a NEL.

 

Edit:  s/teems/teams/;

Edited November 24, 2014 by Netfoot

[blackwing]

I think it's much easier to be generous of spirit to a struggling partner when you know a big mess up won't cost you the rest of the race. Maybe that is who they are as people (they do seem spectacularly positive), but I don't think we can know whether or not one of them would be an asshat if staring down elimination based on what we've seen. We have seen them being strategic about who does which task (Misty doing tasks even when they were behind) because they knew they had the save if Misty didn't do the task as fast as Jim would be able to.

I agree.  He knew he had the save so no matter what, they were going to be OK.  He did seem to get frustrated with her when she had trouble with the rugs.  This after they had already been in last and got saved by a non-elimination.  They were prepared to turn in the save after Misty imploded at the sandwich shop, they got lucky, then she struggled again with the rugs, but it was all OK because they knew they weren't going home.  And he's said it several times, that they don't feel stressed because no matter what happens, they won't go home that leg.

 

Personally, I HATE the Save.  I hate the non-elimination legs, and the Save is a non-elimination leg for that team every single leg until they come in last.  I really hope we don't see it again in future races, because it really does affect the game play.  If they are going to have the Save in future races, they need to change it a bit more so it's not just a free pass to the finals.  Either 1) have it like the express pass of before, where there is a duplicate that they have to give to someone (only make them decide immediately right then and there instead of lording it over everyone like Marie did) or 2) make it MUCH harder to get, as in, they have to drive far out of the way, like the fast forward and risk the chance that someone else already went for it.

 

I like the cyclists, precisely because they are running their own race and doing their own thing and not relying on others.  Does that make them unfriendly?  Perhaps.  But like one of them said, they're from New York.  They don't care who they offend.  Is that bad strategy?  Especially with U Turns in play, perhaps.  I always hate this social aspect of the game, where you have to walk on eggshells and avoid pissing off another team.  I hate that Shelly U Turned Keith and Whitney just because they got into an argument.  Keith and Whitney would have been eliminated anyways due to their own incompetence, but still.  The cyclists are one of the stronger teams left in the race, and I hate the fact that they could be U Turned because of some variation of the theme of "they all jus' jealous".

[kingshearte]

I haven't really had a strong opinion about the Save, but recently (probably inspired by the insightful observations of many of you), I've come around to disliking it. As it stands now, it basically gives an extra advantage to a team that theoretically doesn't really need it (barring the fluke of an otherwise incompetent team somehow stumbling into that first win), thus making the strong stronger, which is not a particularly compelling scenario. So then I thought, what if they made it something that could somehow potentially be available to one of the other teams (maybe a FF-type setup). But then I thought that the Save is such a potentially huge reward that it shouldn't be given to a weaker team, because that's not how this whole race thing should work. So basically, I don't like it.

[etagloh]

 

I wonder if the Save has screwed up any of the timing for eliminations.

 

This has been chewed over in previous threads: based on the performance of past first-leg-winners, the most likely scenario is "Save not used", with "Save used" as the backup plan. I think Netfoot's right to assume they've planned backward from the F4 in leg 11, making leg 10 the optional elimination leg, which in turn dictates the positioning of the second U-Turn leg.

 

 

Either 1) have it like the express pass of before, where there is a duplicate that they have to give to someone

 

If the single Save has such a distorting effect -- without even being used! -- adding a second completely changes the nature of the competition, both in the early legs where the weakest teams get picked off and in the middle legs where the possible winners are asserting themselves. One of the abiding things about TAR is that a strong team can be eliminated by a single bad day. That feels harsh when it happens, but it's consistent.

[Netfoot]

One of the abiding things about TAR is that a strong team can be eliminated by a single bad day. That feels harsh when it happens, but it's consistent.

 

Another abiding tenet -- gradually being eroded by Saves, Express Passes, U- and W-turns, etc, etc -- is that any team, strong or weak, stands or falls based upon their own performance.  If they race well, overcome misfortune and avoid delay, they have a good chance of succeeding.

 

Alas, we seem to be approaching the point where the last team to the mat isn't eliminated.  Instead, there will be a Tribal Council at the mat, and the racers vote who to eliminate.  Since performance won't be an issue, Roadblocks and Detours will be replaced by ass-kissing and backstabbing.  I, of course, won't be watching.

[BarneySays]

I agree with Netfoot about the Save increasing the chance that a team will end up in the F3.  But the Dentists have also shown that they are one of the best competing teams in TAR history, so if they are in the F3 and then win the Race, it is because they are exceptional competitors.

I think one also has to take into consideration the competition.  This season IMO is populated with pretty average (mediocre?) competitors.  In one sense, it makes for a better race because they are not so unevenly matched.  But it lacks the fun of watching clever people solve the problems of the challenges (Bethany being the obvious exception).  I think Jim and Misti are fine competitors, but they have not really consistently excelled (notwithstanding their admirable record).  They've failed to read clues, switched detours, made stupid mistakes, etc.  If this field had the old glut of young jock teams, they'd be getting the "keeping up with the young 'uns" edit.  YMMV. 

 

I tend to believe there is significant psychological currency in the save.  We have seen the effects of panic on many a competitor's thoughts and actions over the seasons.  Eliminating that handicap must be very valuable, especially since you still only have to beat one team to stay alive.  I think the team dynamics might be very different if Jim and Misti did not catch that non-elimination leg. 

 

I think Brett's caterwauling is all just an act.  I think all of them are playfully mocking themselves.  Everyone's got a shtick!  But I don't find any underlying hostility with any of them and I don't find their shticks cloying.  They all seem like decent people who are having a great time running around the world.  Just like old times.

 

I have to reiterate how much I am enjoying this season.  Every leg has had some level of suspense (some much more than others).  The locations have been stunning; the tasks have been among the best; there's no reality tv drama; nd Phil pops up like Waldo every episode.  What more could we ask for?  Okay, cross our fingers for a broken ox.

 

ETA:

 

Quote

    

    I am happy that Tim and Te Jay are gone.   Their shrieky, affected personas really grated on me.    They weren't very good at the tasks either.   Maybe he would have gotten farther on the pole if he didn't run like Mrs. Howell.

 

/snicker wiping tears of laughter away/

After I had a good laugh, it dawned on me...that's who that Maltese falcon reminded me of!

Edited November 25, 2014 by BarneySays

[Camera One]

In the exit interview with Te Jay and Tim on TV Guide, they said the pole was re-greased.  It really was a case of "One more time and we'll get it" syndrome.  They said they knew if they went to polish, they would be behind the Wrestlers, so maybe it does mean the Wrestlers would pick up the armor they had already begun polishing, so they would already be ahead of the game.  They said they were 20 min after, so I don't know if they managed to polish fast or what.  It's not possible to tell how long Brooke and Robbie polished for before they left.