S06.E17: Reunion Part 2

[jinjer]

She lost her father to cancer when she was young.  She was only in her early 30's when she was diagnosed.  She did endure a mastectomy and chemo.  And If Amber wants to refer to it, as "the cancer", she's entitled to it after what she went through.  I am glad BRAVO gave air time to her story - as opposed to the usual petty catfights, etc.

Premenopausal breast cancer is often much more aggressive and is more likely to return. Catching it in stage 1 is a blessing no matter what type of cancer.  I hate waiting for my mammogram results, so I can't imagine what it is like for Amber and other women who have had breast cancer.  I wish their story wasn't so poorly reenacted because it did have a powerful message behind it.  

 

I think Twin 2 is a lot more palatable than Twin 1.  She is totally onto the fact that Bobby is using her for the show.  And I think that it is weird for a man to be stalking HW signings.  I am sorry; I know that is sexist. I just don't see the firefighters lining up by themselves at HW signings for these old hags.  I could see it for younger eligible women, but these married, over-botoxed, spray-tanned women?  IMO for Bobby to have photos of himself alone with not only the NJ HWs but also with Ramona means that he is a huge starf*cker wannabe. 

 

When Jim got out of law school in 2001, there were no legal jobs really.  It was a time when law firms were cutting associates right and left.  I can't imagine a school like Seton Hall was getting many interviews, and the few they were getting were probably only going to the top students.  He may not have done well in school, although there are articles published by him in some journal - so maybe he did well enough to get on a law review, so maybe he just took a corporate job offer and blew off the bar exam.  You do  have to study for a couple of months before taking it.  The bar review course cost about $800 in the late '80s.  Maybe it was around $1000 by 2000 and he didn't have the money, so he just took a job.  Now why he went back and took it in 2013 is interesting.  

[Lisin]

Hi gang! Your friendly neighborhood mods are here asking you to 1) remember that everyone has opinions and they are all valid. 2) Please keep posts in the Reunion topics about the reunion. It's fine to reference back to prior episode events but not to devolve into "he said she said" arguments between posters that go back seasons unless it's actually been brought up in the episode. 3) Let us remember that none of us know exactly what happened because this show is highly edited and again, everyone has a valid opinion and finally 4) Stick to the show and the people on the show. We don't need to bring our personal lives onto the forum. If the majority of your post isn't about the show, and more specifically events brought up in the Reunion, it will be deleted without warning going forward. Thank you.

[Mackey]

Jim's comments about going to law school and choosing not to take bar exam are believable to me. Three young people in my life (one being my daughter in law) attended average to great law schools. All three completed. Two decided practicing law wasn't their thing and then went into different areas to get PHD's. My DIL did prepare for and pass the bar under the "who knows, it could be useful some day" idea. She didn't once seek employment as an attny, though. These things do happen.

EDIT: The three young people I am describing don't call people names while having an argument, however.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Mackey

[Giselle]

The problem with keeping Jim around is all those pesky contracts he has people sign that guarantee he will not be offended. 

 

Originally, I think the ladies were willing to give Amber a pass but I think it is obvious she glows in her husband's shadow and instigates about 75% of the crap along with Jim. 

 

I am going back to the first episode when Amber & Jim were having a party.  Amber claims the twins had a bunch of their friends crash the party. (the twins claim they were asked by Amber to invite people to fill up the party.) Fast forward ahead to the Project Ladybug party and Jim wrote Dina and said they were pulling their support.   The event soars to 200 people.  I think it might be the twins with the pull in Colt's Neck-not Amber and Jim.  So whether Jim stays or goes he is always at risk of being one upped by either Rino or Bobby.

I think more the twins than Wee Jimmy and THE CANCER, but also that it's more Rino than anybody who may have brought the people in for LB. He's got the schmooz factor down (witness his gentlemanly behavior toward THE CANCER and Theresa) and the perfect venue... his restaurants, to promote the LB fundraiser.

[vrocotamy]

When Jim got out of law school in 2001, there were no legal jobs really.  It was a time when law firms were cutting associates right and left.  I can't imagine a school like Seton Hall was getting many interviews, and the few they were getting were probably only going to the top students.  He may not have done well in school, although there are articles published by him in some journal - so maybe he did well enough to get on a law review, so maybe he just took a corporate job offer and blew off the bar exam.  You do  have to study for a couple of months before taking it.  The bar review course cost about $800 in the late '80s.  Maybe it was around $1000 by 2000 and he didn't have the money, so he just took a job.  Now why he went back and took it in 2013 is interesting.  

 

Your theory sounds plausible, but something still doesn't add up vis a vis Jim finishing law school and not taking the bar. After spending ~$150,000 and a few years on law school (albeit, probably most of it through loans) - in order to become a lawyer - what's another ~$1,000 and a few months of studying to pass the bar exam? If he had done decently in law school, Seton Hall has a strong alumni network and job prospects within New Jersey (if not elsewhere.)

 

I think the actual story as to why Jim hasn't become a licensed attorney probably takes something from each of our accounts. There are two possibilities: a.) He really did take the bar exam, at least once, and failed, and will not admit it publicly, and b.) He, in fact, did not take the bar exam until 2013. If b.) is true, he either i.) Figured that coming from an "average"/regional school like Seton Hall, he would not get a job in the poor legal job market of 2001, a matter perhaps exacerbated by poor grades in law school, or ii.) He had participated in activities prior to beginning law school that would have made it difficult for him to pass the ethics and fitness test.

 

What is indubitable is that, if he did not pass the bar exam until 2013, he would have trouble passing the ethics and fitness committee due to his legal troubles with Mortgage NOW (particularly being banned from writing mortgages in Washington State for twenty years), history of frivolous litigation, and his touch-and-go relationship with the Department of Justice.  Re mackay: In casting doubt on Jim, I don't mean to impugn the character of everyone who's either graduated law school and not taken the bar or taken the bar and ultimately not worked as an attorney.  I know plenty of people who graduated from law school, passed the bar, and for whom employment as an attorney didn't work out. Jim just seems dishonest. Most of the attorneys on these boards have said his story makes their "head hurt" or just doesn't add up.

 

Jim has a tendency to engage in rhetorical dancing and doublespeak re: his professional activities. For example, "I make millions consulting lawyers on mortgage fraud" (roughly what he said in the reunion) really means "I make millions in whistle-blower payouts for reporting improper filings by Bank of America and Countrywide to the Department of Justice."

Edited November 8, 2014 by vrocotamy

[StatisticalOutlier]

Upthread, I suggested that the victim of the Jim Marchese sex dream try to substitute the Lost Ikea Monkey, figuring that simian sex would be less of a mental burden.  However, I retract that because upon further reflection, simian sex sounds a lot like what Joe Gorga has to offer, and that's not preferable to anything.  So nix that, and go straight for the ECT to try to kill the fold of the brain where the memory of that dream lives..

 

Tiny Jim's explanation of his status as a lawyer makes my head hurt, and did I hear correctly that he's now in a year-long "dance" with the character committee?  Maybe things have changed, or New Jersey has something special going on, but my experience with the committee that examined one's "fitness" for getting licensed was so insignificant that I can't remember enough about it to even try to compare it with Jim's.  I filled out their questionnaire, and then I guess I heard I was okay.  There was definitely no dancing.

 

And I loved one of the twins saying she's Italian, so she's used to friends and family members going to jail, or something like that.  

 

As for the cancer, didn't Angelina Jolie have a double mastectomy because she has the BRCA gene and not even actual cancer? 

 

I wouldn't want to have been in Amber's shoes, but I also like to think that I wouldn't lead people to believe it was a death sentence (even if for the sake of being on t.v.), or anything more than the Stage 1 it was, if nothing else out of respect for women who DO have much more deadly breast cancer.  Like, maybe, "I was diagnosed with breast cancer, but I was lucky it was stage one and very treatable.  It sucked, but it could have been so much worse."

 

And while I'm at it, the scars on her back were from reconstructive surgery.  I don't begrudge her getting Jerseylicious tits as part of the bargain, and don't necessarily have a problem with a woman not wanting to live with disfigurement, but again, her whole approach just grates when it really, truly, could have been much, much worse. 

[lightbeam]

I just want to make a shallow comment - I think that whichever twin ( still can't tell them apart, mostly because they are so screechy and boring that I don't care enough) was wearing the white Grecian dress looked terrible. The cut of the dress was extremely unflattering to her chest. It made her breasts look long and droopy.

Edited November 8, 2014 by lightbeam

[HumblePi]

I just want to make a shallow comment - I think that whichever twin ( still can't tell them apart, mostly because they are so screechy and boring that I don't care enough) was wearing the white Grecian dress looked terrible. The cut of the dress was extremely unflattering to her chest. It made her breasts look long and droopy.

her breasts looked exactly like the white balloons we used to fill with water and suspend out the window waiting for someone to walk under it.

[Higgins]

Upthread, I suggested that the victim of the Jim Marchese sex dream try to substitute the Lost Ikea Monkey, figuring that simian sex would be less of a mental burden.  However, I retract that because upon further reflection, simian sex sounds a lot like what Joe Gorga has to offer, and that's not preferable to anything.  So nix that, and go straight for the ECT to try to kill the fold of the brain where the memory of that dream lives..

 

Tiny Jim's explanation of his status as a lawyer makes my head hurt, and did I hear correctly that he's now in a year-long "dance" with the character committee?  Maybe things have changed, or New Jersey has something special going on, but my experience with the committee that examined one's "fitness" for getting licensed was so insignificant that I can't remember enough about it to even try to compare it with Jim's.  I filled out their questionnaire, and then I guess I heard I was okay.  There was definitely no dancing.

 

And I loved one of the twins saying she's Italian, so she's used to friends and family members going to jail, or something like that.  

 

As for the cancer, didn't Angelina Jolie have a double mastectomy because she has the BRCA gene and not even actual cancer? 

 

I wouldn't want to have been in Amber's shoes, but I also like to think that I wouldn't lead people to believe it was a death sentence (even if for the sake of being on t.v.), or anything more than the Stage 1 it was, if nothing else out of respect for women who DO have much more deadly breast cancer.  Like, maybe, "I was diagnosed with breast cancer, but I was lucky it was stage one and very treatable.  It sucked, but it could have been so much worse."

 

And while I'm at it, the scars on her back were from reconstructive surgery.  I don't begrudge her getting Jerseylicious tits as part of the bargain, and don't necessarily have a problem with a woman not wanting to live with disfigurement, but again, her whole approach just grates when it really, truly, could have been much, much worse. 

Staging of cancer is NOT the whole story. It doesn't tell you the type of malignancy so a stage I breast cancer could be more deadly than a different type, stage II or III. The grade of a tumor is more of a prognostic factor than stage. There is also hormonal status and the non hormonal receptive cancers can be more dangerous and they are more likely in younger women like Amber.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Higgins

[twilightzone]

As for the cancer, didn't Angelina Jolie have a double mastectomy because she has the BRCA gene and not even actual cancer? 

 

I wouldn't want to have been in Amber's shoes, but I also like to think that I wouldn't lead people to believe it was a death sentence (even if for the sake of being on t.v.), or anything more than the Stage 1 it was, if nothing else out of respect for women who DO have much more deadly breast cancer.  Like, maybe, "I was diagnosed with breast cancer, but I was lucky it was stage one and very treatable.  It sucked, but it could have been so much worse."

 

And while I'm at it, the scars on her back were from reconstructive surgery.  I don't begrudge her getting Jerseylicious tits as part of the bargain, and don't necessarily have a problem with a woman not wanting to live with disfigurement, but again, her whole approach just grates when it really, truly, could have been much, much worse. 

 

Amber actually had cancer - and did chemotherapy.  Angelina Jolie did not.  Any diagnostic of cancer - at whatever stage - is frightening - and life changing.  In as far as respect - I doubt anyone who has been diagnose would say Amber was disrespectful.  With her family history, she was smart about early detection.  What was disrespectful were the shrews on the show like Dina, Nicole, Melissa mocking her.  Women should be supporting each other, especially with an issue as important as this - not backbiting and being irresponsible about it.

Edited November 8, 2014 by twilightzone

[One Tough Cookie]

So JoGo took the high road with Jimbo  when it comes to speaking about women?  Quite a change from last  year when he screamed "Don't talk about my FUCKING WIFE" at someone.

This is truly my last season-I can't stand any of them.

Edited November 8, 2014 by One More Time

[Notmuchofacook]

The segment with Jim and Amber "getting" Bawby with the pictures was uncomfortable. It was much ado about nothing, really, and Amber was gleefully laughing and being stupid. Hated it. hate them.

[Marigold]

I don't know much about law but maybe Jim deliberately avoided the bar exam.

If you are not an actual lawyer, you are not held to attorney standards, licensing etc.

Maybe he was planning on playing a little dirty and didn't want to be an attorney? All those pesky licensing rules and regulations?

Edited November 8, 2014 by Marigold

[RazzleberryPie]

OMG Those twins have to go. Now. Can't got quick enough, Andy. The one in the white dress with the boulder boobs looks ridiculous. 

 

They're loud, squawky, boring, loud, squawky, broken records, loud, squawky, have nothing to say but just loud, squawky. Did I mention they were loud and squawky? Get over the V Gotti comments about your mother. They were both fine with it, until production encouraged them to perpetuate the fight, and they realized that's their only story line, and they thrive on the pointless drama. Squwak. 

 

Rino, I can handle. Bobby is charming but a little slimey, but I can handle. Amber, I can handle because she makes Melissa a little bit nervous as to what she or Jim are going to reveal about their past. Jim's not worth commenting on except that he needs to calm down and grow up.I hate the whole 'cross the line and I'll destroy you bit,' when the line is a hairline trigger with no rhyme or reason as to when it is crossed. 

[Daisy head]

Twin Teresa -with the darker hair- gives me serious Jane Seymour vibes.

I actually like the twins. I think they seem fun :)

[Rahul]

OMG Those twins have to go. Now. Can't got quick enough, Andy. The one in the white dress with the boulder boobs looks ridiculous.

 

Boulder boobs! I love it. 

 

Seriously though, something is wrong with that woman if she took a look in a full length mirror before walking out onto the reunion set and thought everything was fine. Her breasts are grotesque monstrosities that should be covered up at all times. 

[zoeysmom]

Your theory sounds plausible, but something still doesn't add up vis a vis Jim finishing law school and not taking the bar. After spending ~$150,000 and a few years on law school (albeit, probably most of it through loans) - in order to become a lawyer - what's another ~$1,000 and a few months of studying to pass the bar exam? If he had done decently in law school, Seton Hall has a strong alumni network and job prospects within New Jersey (if not elsewhere.)

 

I think the actual story as to why Jim hasn't become a licensed attorney probably takes something from each of our accounts. There are two possibilities: a.) He really did take the bar exam, at least once, and failed, and will not admit it publicly, and b.) He, in fact, did not take the bar exam until 2013. If b.) is true, he either i.) Figured that coming from an "average"/regional school like Seton Hall, he would not get a job in the poor legal job market of 2001, a matter perhaps exacerbated by poor grades in law school, or ii.) He had participated in activities prior to beginning law school that would have made it difficult for him to pass the ethics and fitness test.

 

What is indubitable is that, if he did not pass the bar exam until 2013, he would have trouble passing the ethics and fitness committee due to his legal troubles with Mortgage NOW (particularly being banned from writing mortgages in Washington State for twenty years), history of frivolous litigation, and his touch-and-go relationship with the Department of Justice.  Re mackay: In casting doubt on Jim, I don't mean to impugn the character of everyone who's either graduated law school and not taken the bar or taken the bar and ultimately not worked as an attorney.  I know plenty of people who graduated from law school, passed the bar, and for whom employment as an attorney didn't work out. Jim just seems dishonest. Most of the attorneys on these boards have said his story makes their "head hurt" or just doesn't add up.

 

Jim has a tendency to engage in rhetorical dancing and doublespeak re: his professional activities. For example, "I make millions consulting lawyers on mortgage fraud" (roughly what he said in the reunion) really means "I make millions in whistle-blower payouts for reporting improper filings by Bank of America and Countrywide to the Department of Justice."

I think we are missing the obvious why Jim didn't pursue finishing up his pursuit of being an attorney-he is an asshole.  Some kindly attorney, who he clerked for one summer  took Jim aside and suggested he mature a tad bit before pursuing the practice of law. Or more likely said, "Jimmy your an asshole and you will have exactly zero character references on your bar application.  I see a great future in you as a whistleblower."  He is an incredibly polarizing person.

 

Has it been confirmed that Jim was actually paid anything whistleblower wise from B of A?  I got that Jim was claiming to have made 8.5 million but Jim has to pay salaries, commissions, bonuses, air time for tasteless television ads and normal overhead on Mortgage Now.  Does Mortgage Now receive 1% of the total of the loan funded?  That would mean they funded $850,000,000.00 in mortgages or in Bravo terms the amount Maurico Umansky's firm sold 2012.

I don't know much about law but maybe Jim deliberately avoided the bar exam.

If you are not an actual lawyer, you are not held to attorney standards, licensing etc.

Maybe he was planning on playing a little dirty and didn't want to be an attorney? All those pesky licensing rules and regulations?

Jim has actually said something close to your thought.

Edited November 9, 2014 by zoeysmom

[TattleTeeny]

Teresa is inmate #42601

 

So close to Jean Valjean's.

[kacesq]

Ya know...it was bad enough when Albie flunked out of Seton Hall Law, but now I have to deal with complete loser Jim as a fellow alumni (and Gov. Christie). I swear to you, Previously TV, there were smart, decent people at the school! :) I predated Jim's time at Seton Hall slightly, and even with a poor legal job market, Seton Hall did - and still does - get a lot of interviews (I interviewed with all the major NJ firms and a lot of NYC firms).  As vrocatomy mentioned, if nothing else we have a very strong alumni network in NJ.

 

Did Jim do the night program? I can't recall if he ever mentioned it, but I really didn't know anyone in the day program who didn't do the traditional graduate in May - study for the bar in June/July - and then take the bar exam in July. Jim says he was making so much money - so he worked some amazingly profitable job while in law school?

 

I don't believe him. I think he was a crappy student who most likely flunked the bar exam and still hasn't taken it and is only saying he took it in 2013 to save face. Also, unless times have changed from when I stood for the NJ bar, you handed in all your character stuff before you took the bar, so when you passed the exam, you got your ok from the character side and were sworn in pretty quickly (unlike NY where you didn't hand in your character material until AFTER you passed the bar).  So that part about now he has to do the character dance didn't ring true to me either.

 

This season - as evidenced by this reunion - was one big dud.  I think something that could benefit all of these franchises would be someone other than Andy hosting them. Andy's too involved and has way too many pets and goats among the cast. But we'll never get rid of Andy unfortunately - he loves the spotlight too much. Something in common with these housewives.

 

I'm torn as to whether I would want to see this show continue with an entirely new cast or put out of its misery.

Edited November 9, 2014 by kacesq

[Giselle]

So close to Jean Valjean's.

 

"Look down, look down. Don't look them in the Eye. Look down, look down...."

[RazzleberryPie]

I can't imagine Jim negotiating or in a courtroom. He has zero control over his emotions and takes everything personally. 

[Kerrey92]

Won't Jim and Amber's children end up the kind of adults Jim supposedly despises what with all their dad's millions?

And is there any chance that Jim was licensed in NJ but was disbarred and that's why he has to do the year long (?) dance with the character committee?

[kacesq]

Won't Jim and Amber's children end up the kind of adults Jim supposedly despises what with all their dad's millions?

And is there any chance that Jim was licensed in NJ but was disbarred and that's why he has to do the year long (?) dance with the character committee?

If Jim was licensed and disbarred, there's no way he would ever be re-admitted.

[Cheetosandchoc]

Won't Jim and Amber's children end up the kind of adults Jim supposedly despises what with all their dad's millions?

And is there any chance that Jim was licensed in NJ but was disbarred and that's why he has to do the year long (?) dance with the character committee?

I hate when people act like growing up in a wealthy family is something to be ashamed of. Don't we all want to have money to give our kids great opportunities?

[copacabana]

I'm on board with everything except the exceptionally silly notion that we don't need to bring our personal lives into the forum, which is a long time trope of every message board and manages to be both sensible and totally off putting. 

[vrocotamy]

I think we are missing the obvious why Jim didn't pursue finishing up his pursuit of being an attorney-he is an asshole.  Some kindly attorney, who he clerked for one summer  took Jim aside and suggested he mature a tad bit before pursuing the practice of law. Or more likely said, "Jimmy your an asshole and you will have exactly zero character references on your bar application.  I see a great future in you as a whistleblower."  He is an incredibly polarizing person.

 

Has it been confirmed that Jim was actually paid anything whistleblower wise from B of A?  I got that Jim was claiming to have made 8.5 million but Jim has to pay salaries, commissions, bonuses, air time for tasteless television ads and normal overhead on Mortgage Now.  Does Mortgage Now receive 1% of the total of the loan funded?  That would mean they funded $850,000,000.00 in mortgages or in Bravo terms the amount Maurico Umansky's firm sold 2012.

Jim has actually said something close to your thought.

 

Jim's payout as a whistle-blower on Bank of America and Countrywide has not been confirmed, but the article from Litigation Daily I linked up-thread suggested he would receive a payout. I'd be surprised if the Department of Justice doesn't look askance at him now. You bring up a great point vis a vis how much Mortgage NOW (I insist on the capital letters) would have to make in mortgages for Jim to make $8.5 million, before overhead. Mortgage NOW, at this point, looks like a rinky-dink little operation. At the time Jim was banned from writing mortgages in Washington State (2012), Mortgage NOW had branches in Central Jersey (South Plainfield and Red Bank) and in suburban parts of upper-size (but not huge) metro areas across the country (Seattle, Cleveland, Philadelphia, and Atlanta). According to the document I linked up-thread from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, the Willow Grove branch, outside Philadelphia, closed after his employees bailed on him for another mortgage firm. A few years ago, he also had a network of branches in the Pensacola area in Northwest Florida; he successfully sued another small-time mortgage firm after they "stole" his employees (perhaps he was living off this for a while?) At this point, Mortgage NOW seems to only operate a "headquarters" in an office park in Shrewsbury (near Colt's Neck), with no other branches.

 

I like your theory about Jim being told he'd have zero character references on the bar application but would make a great professional snitch. He begs the question of how many whistles you'd have to blow before the Feds start questioning whether you're the one dirtying the water where you swim...

 

But, as for temperament and the legal profession...there are lawyers who are perfectly lovely people (e.g. my father, grandfather, and grandmother) and lawyers who are raving lunatics and assholes (e.g. my father's former boss.) If you are a member of the latter category, however, you need to suppress those characteristics professionally in relation to your clients and superiors. I don't know if Jim could do that.

Edited November 9, 2014 by vrocotamy

[vrocotamy]

Ya know...it was bad enough when Albie flunked out of Seton Hall Law, but now I have to deal with complete loser Jim as a fellow alumni (and Gov. Christie). I swear to you, Previously TV, there were smart, decent people at the school! :) I predated Jim's time at Seton Hall slightly, and even with a poor legal job market, Seton Hall did - and still does - get a lot of interviews (I interviewed with all the major NJ firms and a lot of NYC firms).  As vrocatomy mentioned, if nothing else we have a very strong alumni network in NJ.

 

Did Jim do the night program? I can't recall if he ever mentioned it, but I really didn't know anyone in the day program who didn't do the traditional graduate in May - study for the bar in June/July - and then take the bar exam in July. Jim says he was making so much money - so he worked some amazingly profitable job while in law school?

 

I don't believe him. I think he was a crappy student who most likely flunked the bar exam and still hasn't taken it and is only saying he took it in 2013 to save face. Also, unless times have changed from when I stood for the NJ bar, you handed in all your character stuff before you took the bar, so when you passed the exam, you got your ok from the character side and were sworn in pretty quickly (unlike NY where you didn't hand in your character material until AFTER you passed the bar).  So that part about now he has to do the character dance didn't ring true to me either.

 

Your information as an NJ-licensed lawyer and Seton Hall alum is invaluable! If what you experienced is still true, I'd assume his "character dance" assertion was a complete lie. And yes, while Seton Hall Law School is not a national brand, it's a very strong name in the New York Metro Area. If you ascribe to US News' rankings, it's one of the five best law schools in Metro New York (after Columbia and NYU and on par with Fordham and Yeshiva). It's far better than a whole host of other law schools in and around New York City.

Edited November 9, 2014 by vrocotamy

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

Seriously though, something is wrong with that woman if she took a look in a full length mirror before walking out onto the reunion set and thought everything was fine. Her breasts are grotesque monstrosities that should be covered up at all times.

I know.  I could barely follow the conversation because I was so damned distracted by the bolted on breasts.  They have a not-so-happy life of their own, I fear.  Bad plastic surgery and that dress just compounded the problem.  That get-up did her no favors.

 

Wrt losing your license to practice law, apparently it is different in NJ than in other states.  Here, if you are disbarred, unless it is for something really egregious, you can re-apply to get your license back if you've been squeaky clean for five(?) years and you can prove it.  I happen to know someone who was disbarred but never reapplied because he decided that no, he wasn't disbarred, he quit!  Yeah, that's the ticket.  And he didn't want to be a lawyer anyway.  So there.

[happykitteh]

Amber, Jim and The Twins are such HORRID, HORRID people they make the Gorgas and Guidices look like sane, stable, emotionally healthy people! Quite a feat!

 

Gotta admit it - I was hoping Joe Gorga would lose his shit and beat the crap out of Jim.

 

ANY cancer is a devastating diagnosis (many in my family have had it, including BC) but Amber and Jim really did make Amber's cancer sound more serious than it was  and there ARE different levels of seriousness. Shameful and disgusting the way she manipulated it into a sympathy ploy storyline. Had the oppposite effect on me. I now feel no sympathy for her at all.

 

White Dress Twin looks so much older, so much harder, than the other twin. They both have voices that make my ears ache.

 

Seeing the flashbacks to the early season (I missed the first 2 seasons) Tre looked so much better with less makeup. Milania was cute when she was little, though probably still bratty.

 

What is it exactly that Jim is going to do to people? He acts like he's such a tough guy hard ass but what is it he thinks makes him so bad ass? He's going to make those who anger him his bitch and depose them for 8 hours? So what - anyone can hire a lawyer and do the same. He certainly can't physically harm anyone seeing as he's a tiny little thing. Can't kill anyone unless he's willing to go to prison for life. I just don't get why he thinks people should fear him, lol.

 

Jim said the only people who hate him are those who Bobby pays to Tweet about him. He needs to visit this forum.

 

Whoever was in charge of set design needs to find another line of work.

[breezy424]

I think we are missing the obvious why Jim didn't pursue finishing up his pursuit of being an attorney-he is an asshole.  Some kindly attorney, who he clerked for one summer  took Jim aside and suggested he mature a tad bit before pursuing the practice of law. Or more likely said, "Jimmy your an asshole and you will have exactly zero character references on your bar application.  I see a great future in you as a whistleblower."  He is an incredibly polarizing person.

 

Has it been confirmed that Jim was actually paid anything whistleblower wise from B of A?  I got that Jim was claiming to have made 8.5 million but Jim has to pay salaries, commissions, bonuses, air time for tasteless television ads and normal overhead on Mortgage Now.  Does Mortgage Now receive 1% of the total of the loan funded?  That would mean they funded $850,000,000.00 in mortgages or in Bravo terms the amount Maurico Umansky's firm sold 2012.

Jim has actually said something close to your thought.

 

And this is another interesting aspect of Jim's explanation of law school.  I thought, and I think you confirm, that he did an interview in which he said he didn't take the bar because being a licensed attorney would prevent him from doing some of the 'consulting' he does.  But now we learn that he took the bar in 2013.  This doesn't make sense or am I missing or misunderstanding something with his 'story'.

 

I still say you don't spend all that time going to law school in your late twenties, early thirties and then turn around and not take the bar.  Sure, if you go straight out of college or graduate school, maybe.  It just seems there's more to this.

[vrocotamy]

And this is another interesting aspect of Jim's explanation of law school.  I thought, and I think you confirm, that he did an interview in which he said he didn't take the bar because being a licensed attorney would prevent him from doing some of the 'consulting' he does.  But now we learn that he took the bar in 2013.  This doesn't make sense or am I missing or misunderstanding something with his 'story'.

 

I still say you don't spend all that time going to law school in your late twenties, early thirties and then turn around and not take the bar.  Sure, if you go straight out of college or graduate school, maybe.  It just seems there's more to this.

 

Perhaps we should make Jim our b*tch and depose him for eight hours until he tells us the truth about why he's not an attorney. We have about as much power to do that as he does!

 

There's part of me that thinks Jim is disturbed enough to go through (and pay for) three years of law school in order to buoy up his fragile, fragile ego and then, because of his fragile, fragile ego, was too afraid of failure to subject himself to the bar exam. This would be completely illogical for most people, but not for Jim with his imperial Napoleon complex.

Edited November 9, 2014 by vrocotamy

[happykitteh]

 

They weren't in shock. They knew back in March that Joe was definitely headed to prison, and Teresa might. That's seven months that they had to sit with this reality. Yes, they are a couple that lives in denial, but they knew.

 

I don't mean to defend Joe Gorga one bit for name-calling Teresa, and it's disgusting to me that all of them air their family's dirty laundry for fame and fortune, but I do think there's a difference between family and others. Let's face it - we're all different with our family than we are with other people. Joe Gorga's stuff with Teresa is all deep-seeded, heat-of-the-moment anger, which might not be ok, but we all do it. He talks about other women as precious jewels, or whatever corny language he uses, but I have no doubt he means it. In stark contrast to Dim Jim, who treats any and all women like scum, and insults them to their face. Jim had the gall to characterize this behavior as treating women as equals! Jim - it's called being a douche. I'll take the Joe Gorga type over Mr. ERA any day of the week.

 

Lotusflower, you're right on this. I think many people get angry with a sibling, call them names, insult them, but God forbid if an outsider does it - then that same sibling will defend his/her family member to the death. I do think JoeGo loves and cares about Tre. The fighting between them on the show, IMO, was partly exaggerated for the cameras and partly both Joe and Tre (and Mel) getting carried away with their "characters". Horrible things were said, feelings were hurt, but I believe they love each other deeply.

 

I respectfully disagree with the first paragraph in your post. I think Tre WAS in shock. She's gotten away with so much illegal, deceitful behavior over the years she really convinced herself she'd weasel out of prison time. She was aware that prison time was a possibility but Tre doesn't live in reality, in her mind she lives in the world as she wants it to be. When forced to face the reality that, YES, you WILL be held accountable and YES, you WILL be doing time in prison she was shocked, shocked that for once things did not go her way, shocked that she wasn't able to lie her way out of a situation or use her stupidity and ignorance as a valid excuse. I don't think she still believes she'll really go to prison. In her mind she'll find a way out of it before she's due to report. Joe, on the other hand, knew he'd do time. I think he's scared and worried but I wouldn't describe him as shocked, more like beaten down.

[WireWrap]

 Things that make you go Hmmmm! Tiny posted a picture of Amber and the twins shopping together!

https://twitter.com/JLMarchese111

[Muffyn]

I wouldn't want to have been in Amber's shoes, but I also like to think that I wouldn't lead people to believe it was a death sentence (even if for the sake of being on t.v.), or anything more than the Stage 1 it was, if nothing else out of respect for women who DO have much more deadly breast cancer.  Like, maybe, "I was diagnosed with breast cancer, but I was lucky it was stage one and very treatable.  It sucked, but it could have been so much worse."

 

And while I'm at it, the scars on her back were from reconstructive surgery.  I don't begrudge her getting Jerseylicious tits as part of the bargain, and don't necessarily have a problem with a woman not wanting to live with disfigurement, but again, her whole approach just grates when it really, truly, could have been much, much worse. 

I agree so much with this.  If the cancer was very aggressive, she could have also explained why she opted for a mastectomy rather than a lumpectomy.  It could have been stage one, highly aggressive and she may also have the genetic component. How that played into a decision could be helpful to other women faced with similar situations. But the way she and the tiny man presented themselves, then adding his general asshattery and her glee in his heinous behavior, I just cannot work up the level of sympathy they wanted.  

 

As far as Jim and the BAR exam, I would accept that he went to law school and decided he didn't want to be an attorney if he didn't pontificate about his great lawyering skills so much.  Then again with his (hopefully drunken) rambling at the reunion, who knows?  He would have a hard time presenting a case in court since he talks in convoluted circles.  It would be fun watching a judge slap the tiny man down.  

[Daisy head]

She lost her father to cancer when she was young. She was only in her early 30's when she was diagnosed. She did endure a mastectomy and chemo. And If Amber wants to refer to it, as "the cancer", she's entitled to it after what she went through. I am glad BRAVO gave air time to her story - as opposed to the usual petty catfights, etc.

Which is why I said it was, no doubt, scary. That, however, does not change the fact that, IMO, the dynamic duo were misleading regarding the actual prognosis. I don't think the survival rate fit into their sympathy & plot line scenario. Doesn't mean it wasn't upsetting or frightening, just not as they portrayed. Jmo, ymmv & all that.

A lot of people take issue with the use of "the" in " the Cancer". I don't really care how it's referred to, I just always figured that was the term Amber heard growing up. That's the least of her gross qualities, IMO.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Daisy head

[The Mighty Peanut]

When my mom was diagnosed with stage 1 breast cancer her tumor was already so large and aggressive that her doctors thought the best option was to first shrink the tumor through chemo before removing her lymph nodes and doing a double mastectomy followed by intense drug therapy. While she had a good chance of surviving (and did) it was still a very long and difficult road that destroyed her immune system and drastically altered her physical appearance and self-perception. I dunno. I can't begrudge Amber her "the" if it makes her feel better. Jim, however, is still an accessory to murder as far as I'm concerned with his pharma scam and Amber is fooling herself if she thinks he blew the whistle for any reason other than it becoming less profitable for him to continue the dirty deals. How does he even have money? He can't practice law, he can't do mortgages in D.C....can he still work selling pharmaceuticals? If not, that's 3/3 business ventures that failed epically.

Edited November 10, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[Daisy head]

As some on here have mentioned, I too have had a close loved one receive a breast cancer diagnosis, and have lost loved ones to other forms of the dreaded disease. I don't really like to talk about it & the thought of bringing it up on a reality show is completely foreign to me, but different strokes. Not everyone deals in the same way.

[eurekagirl mOo]

Amber, Jim and The Twins are such HORRID, HORRID people they make the Gorgas and Guidices look like sane, stable, emotionally healthy people! Quite a feat!

 

Gotta admit it - I was hoping Joe Gorga would lose his shit and beat the crap out of Jim.

 

ANY cancer is a devastating diagnosis (many in my family have had it, including BC) but Amber and Jim really did make Amber's cancer sound more serious than it was  and there ARE different levels of seriousness. Shameful and disgusting the way she manipulated it into a sympathy ploy storyline. Had the oppposite effect on me. I now feel no sympathy for her at all.

 

White Dress Twin looks so much older, so much harder, than the other twin. They both have voices that make my ears ache.

 

Seeing the flashbacks to the early season (I missed the first 2 seasons) Tre looked so much better with less makeup. Milania was cute when she was little, though probably still bratty.

 

What is it exactly that Jim is going to do to people? He acts like he's such a tough guy hard ass but what is it he thinks makes him so bad ass? He's going to make those who anger him his bitch and depose them for 8 hours? So what - anyone can hire a lawyer and do the same. He certainly can't physically harm anyone seeing as he's a tiny little thing. Can't kill anyone unless he's willing to go to prison for life. I just don't get why he thinks people should fear him, lol.

 

Jim said the only people who hate him are those who Bobby pays to Tweet about him. He needs to visit this forum.

 

Whoever was in charge of set design needs to find another line of work.

Jim threatened me on Twitter....still no check from Bobbi....

[jinjer]

Can you find out if someone failed the bar?  Maybe he failed initially, said the hell with it and got a job.  And now in 2013 took it and passed and HAS to do a dance with the ethics committee because of all his legal troubles.  As mentioned above, no one else has to do that dance.  You do it all before hand and get sworn in after your results come in.  Even your childhood indiscretions of getting arrested "down the shore" don't hold you back (don't ask me how I know...).

 

Could the twins and Amber have made up the whole feud?  That photo Jim tweeted was retweeted by Nicole or the other Twin with a heart.  I wonder if Bobby is retweeting Jim stuff with hearts now too.

[LotusFlower]

I respectfully disagree with the first paragraph in your post. I think Tre WAS in shock. She's gotten away with so much illegal, deceitful behavior over the years she really convinced herself she'd weasel out of prison time. She was aware that prison time was a possibility but Tre doesn't live in reality, in her mind she lives in the world as she wants it to be. When forced to face the reality that, YES, you WILL be held accountable and YES, you WILL be doing time in prison she was shocked, shocked that for once things did not go her way, shocked that she wasn't able to lie her way out of a situation or use her stupidity and ignorance as a valid excuse. I don't think she still believes she'll really go to prison. In her mind she'll find a way out of it before she's due to report. Joe, on the other hand, knew he'd do time. I think he's scared and worried but I wouldn't describe him as shocked, more like beaten down.

Sure, I get it. The original post was about Teresa and Joe both, and of course Joe's incarceration was always a near-certainty, so how could he be in shock? As for Teresa, it all goes to what you believe happened behind the scenes with the lawyers. Post-sentencing, Teresa said that her lawyers didn't tell her anything, and yes, she signed the plea deal, but she didn't understand what she was signing. Not for a second do I believe this, and frankly, I find it hard to believe that anyone does. Not only because she's a lying liar who lies, but because this shifting of blame and refusal to accept responsibility is so consistent with her personality. Furthermore, her lawyers did an excellent job of promoting the probation hope to the media, as so many bought it as a probable outcome. But it was always just PR, and to those who looked more closely at the situation, including knowledge of sentencing guidelines and similar precedents, a prison sentence was always probable. If her lawyers didn't tell her this, to call it a dereliction of duty is putting it mildly, so I don't buy it. (Plus, we know due to the unprofessional yet very public statements from her "coach" Wendy Feldman that prison was on discussed).

I guess it all comes down to denial vs. knowledge. Yes, Teresa lives in a world of denial, but she always knew that prison was a real possibility. I know you agreed with this, but summised that she thought she could talk her way out of it, like she always does. But again, unless you buy her claim of ignorance, Teresa knew her fate was sealed once she signed the plea agreement, a deal where she admitted her guilt to four federal crimes, crimes punishable by a 21-27 month prison sentence. The argument for downward departure at the hearing (asking for mercy) was always a long shot, and Teresa knew it. I would say that Teresa was in denial and still thought she'd get away with everything in the months leading up to the plea (in March). Once she bit the bullet, she knew it was likely over, and to me, it explains why she was so nervous from March on. But denial after she was sentenced? I would say we were looking at someone more medicated than in shock.

[Higgins]

With what the judge said about considering probation until the financial statement document mess, I can see Teresa blaming Joe for her sentence if what Joe said is true and he was responsible for that mess.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Higgins

[LotusFlower]

With what the judge said about considering probation until the financial statement document mess, I can see Teresa blaming Joe for her sentence if what Joe said is true and he was responsible for that mess.

Yes, I see what you mean. But that, too, goes to whether or not you feel her lawyers could be that derelict. I believe Joe told Teresa he would handle the financial disclosure forms, but it's not like Teresa's lawyers didn't see it before it was submitted. So again, behind the scenes, what was discussed between Teresa and her lawyers, and Joe and his lawyers? (Separate counsel).

[zoeysmom]

With what the judge said about considering probation until the financial statement document mess, I can see Teresa blaming Joe for her sentence if what Joe said is true and he was responsible for that mess.

I think the message from the court was misinterpreted by Andy Cohen.  What the judge said, "for a moment I thought about probation.  For a moment."  She continued with, "I need to send a message that it isn't who you are, how famous you are.  If you do something wrong there will be consequences to pay."  I think the all day nattering in court had more to do with setting the restitution and fines and that is why they needed ACCURATE financials. 

 

To me, there is this knee-jerk reaction to the Giudices screwing up once again, on the financial reports, was the reason Teresa received prison. I don't think the court ever really considered anything other than prison time and I believe the reason this case took so long is because Teresa when faced with options, pre-indictment, would not entertain prison time.  In the world of criminal defense attorneys, Teresa and Joe received a great deal.  Her not dealing with prison time has little to do with anything other than she just doesn't believe she should be subject to criminal prosecution.  She saw pretty things she wanted them.  What is wrong with that?  She didn't murder anyone so why shouldn't she have nice things.   She received on the low end of the possible term she could have faced.  I felt like they had been working the system for so long and try and buy an advantage with their "fame" that the court held an unusually long sentencing hearing to ensure the chuckleheads understood the process.

 

As to Teresa's shock it was to me like a spoiled child who didn't win the raffle at the school fair.  Teresa wanted to believe the pie in the sky her defense counsel put out there as a trial balloon.

[Higgins]

I think the message from the court was misinterpreted by Andy Cohen.  What the judge said, "for a moment I thought about probation.  For a moment."  She continued with, "I need to send a message that it isn't who you are, how famous you are.  If you do something wrong there will be consequences to pay."  I think the all day nattering in court had more to do with setting the restitution and fines and that is why they needed ACCURATE financials. 

 

To me, there is this knee-jerk reaction to the Giudices screwing up once again, on the financial reports, was the reason Teresa received prison. I don't think the court ever really considered anything other than prison time and I believe the reason this case took so long is because Teresa when faced with options, pre-indictment, would not entertain prison time.  In the world of criminal defense attorneys, Teresa and Joe received a great deal.  Her not dealing with prison time has little to do with anything other than she just doesn't believe she should be subject to criminal prosecution.  She saw pretty things she wanted them.  What is wrong with that?  She didn't murder anyone so why shouldn't she have nice things.   She received on the low end of the possible term she could have faced.  I felt like they had been working the system for so long and try and buy an advantage with their "fame" that the court held an unusually long sentencing hearing to ensure the chuckleheads understood the process.

 

As to Teresa's shock it was to me like a spoiled child who didn't win the raffle at the school fair.  Teresa wanted to believe the pie in the sky her defense counsel put out there as a trial balloon.

I agree but, what did Teresa hear? She heard that she would have been sentenced with probation if Joe hadn't fucked up so it is Joe's fault, again.

[LotusFlower]

I think the message from the court was misinterpreted by Andy Cohen.  What the judge said, "for a moment I thought about probation.  For a moment."  She continued with, "I need to send a message that it isn't who you are, how famous you are.  If you do something wrong there will be consequences to pay."  I think the all day nattering in court had more to do with setting the restitution and fines and that is why they needed ACCURATE financials. 

 

To me, there is this knee-jerk reaction to the Giudices screwing up once again, on the financial reports, was the reason Teresa received prison. I don't think the court ever really considered anything other than prison time and I believe the reason this case took so long is because Teresa when faced with options, pre-indictment, would not entertain prison time.  In the world of criminal defense attorneys, Teresa and Joe received a great deal.  Her not dealing with prison time has little to do with anything other than she just doesn't believe she should be subject to criminal prosecution.  She saw pretty things she wanted them.  What is wrong with that?  She didn't murder anyone so why shouldn't she have nice things.   She received on the low end of the possible term she could have faced.  I felt like they had been working the system for so long and try and buy an advantage with their "fame" that the court held an unusually long sentencing hearing to ensure the chuckleheads understood the process.

 

As to Teresa's shock it was to me like a spoiled child who didn't win the raffle at the school fair.  Teresa wanted to believe the pie in the sky her defense counsel put out there as a trial balloon.

I could not agree more. And it wasn't just Andy Cohen, a lot of people, and media, reported the sentencing results this way. And then of course the one-on-one interview, with Teresa blaming Joe for everything, only exacerbated this perception. Judge Salas had a mountain of information, not to mention seven months, to read and decide. The misleading or downright false reporting on the financial disclosure form was just one piece of damning info. that she had at her disposal. They screwed themselves with their crimes, and their admission of said crimes in the plea agreement, not with the one form.

[motorcitymom65]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being born rich. However, I do have a problem with people who are born rich and do nothing with their lives. At least Bobby is a volunteer firefighter. Despite all of his posturing, Bobby probably does more for his community than Jim does.

I would agree except Bobby only became a Volunteer a Firefighter two weeks before filming. He also never mentioned on the show anything about his family or any wealth. I also don't remember him or anyone else specifying that he was a volunteer. That came out later. It seems as though he was trying to stay away from being a trust fund baby with no real job for the show and to portray himself as a Blue Collar type. I think it would have been interesting to know about his actual life but he didn't say boo about it on the show. I agree with others who see nothing wrong with being born into wealth (wish I would have been), but think that many people have issues with folks of privilege not really contributing anything. I think he saw this and worked to move a different narrative. What has come out is that he is not just a famewhore, but a man who is a Real HW Famewhore. He seemed embarrassed by this disclosure which is why I assume he tried to make up reasons why he was at each book signing, acting like each episode was just happenstance. Yea Bobby, whatever.

[TattleTeeny]

Sure, I get it. The original post was about Teresa and Joe both, and of course Joe's incarceration was always a near-certainty, so how could he be in shock?

 

I have a sister who does dumb shit all the time (and is not technically a dumb person, if that makes sense), for prolonged amounts of time, and is always in shock when it blows up in her face.

I took the other poster's comment about Teresa being in shock, despite knowing the possible outcome for a while, to mean that, for some, when the verdict (literal, in Teresa's case, as well as metaphorical in other people's situations) actually is in place, it's a call to action that can be daunting to even the best planners or people who ponder every possible outcome. For instance, I was in shock on two separate instances that two chronically ill (and very beloved) pets finally passed away--even though one was euthanized, and I was the one who took her to the appointment. I am not a dumb person, and also not someone who didn't think about and try to brace myself for those moments all too often. Still…shock.  

Edited November 9, 2014 by TattleTeeny

[ryebread]

Great post, Tattle. I thought Teresa was in shock, too, but I have such little sympathy/interest in her plight that I couldn't be arsed to explain why I thought so. LOL. Very nice job.

[TattleTeeny]

Thank you. I worried that my example became extremely convoluted.

[happykitteh]

 

I guess it all comes down to denial vs. knowledge. Yes, Teresa lives in a world of denial, but she always knew that prison was a real possibility. I know you agreed with this, but summised that she thought she could talk her way out of it, like she always does. But again, unless you buy her claim of ignorance, Teresa knew her fate was sealed once she signed the plea agreement, a deal where she admitted her guilt to four federal crimes, crimes punishable by a 21-27 month prison sentence. The argument for downward departure at the hearing (asking for mercy) was always a long shot, and Teresa knew it. I would say that Teresa was in denial and still thought she'd get away with everything in the months leading up to the plea (in March). Once she bit the bullet, she knew it was likely over, and to me, it explains why she was so nervous from March on. But denial after she was sentenced? I would say we were looking at someone more medicated than in shock.

 

Teresa knew she was facing the possibility (even the judge said she considered probation but for Tre lying on the court documents) of prison time but she never believed she would really be sentenced. In her world of "I'm entitled, I get away with everything, things eventually always go my way" she believed this could never happen to her. The difference between knowledge and denial is one may indeed KNOW something, be intelligent enough to process that information but one's brain refuses to actually BELIEVE it. Has nothing to do with ignorance, just a mind's inability to accept a horrible fate. This kind of thinking is the basis of hope for humans - the ability to believe something awful will not happen despite being told it's a forgone conclusion. I think Tre's nervousness from March on was about Joe going to prison and her losing everything - money, material possessions, etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2014 by happykitteh