S06.E16: Reunion Part 1

[LotusFlower]

Actually they owe about 8.4 million, I misstated it as 9.4 earlier, to creditors with only about 5 million to mortgages. Some of that money is directly linked to Joe's businesses but creditors could still come after Teresa for some of that money. She was listed on a few businesses he owned. They owe several different Lawyers, the IVF Dr, various small business owners. The amount they owe is staggering! Also, none of those listed were victims of Joe's shoddy work on homes damaged by Hurricane Sandy, that happened AFTER they filed for BK protection. I have to suspect some of them will come after him for that money as well. If Joe gets deported, I wonder if Teresa will be held accountable for any of that money or if she will have to give up 1/2 of whatever is left over from before his deportation. His creditors would be entitled to his 1/2 of their marital estate if Joe goes bye bye to Italy after prison.

Wow, interesting. Thanks for the info. I guess I'm still curious as to what's going on, though. The bankruptcy petition was withdrawn quite awhile ago, yet the Giudices have still been living large. Do the creditors have to each sue individually to recoup their money? What's the process, the timeline, and more importantly, what's the hold-up? (And yes, what would happen to the debt if/when Joe is deported is another good question.)

[WireWrap]

Wow, interesting. Thanks for the info. I guess I'm still curious as to what's going on, though. The bankruptcy petition was withdrawn quite awhile ago, yet the Giudices have still been living large. Do the creditors have to each sue individually to recoup their money? What's the process, the timeline, and more importantly, what's the hold-up? (And yes, what would happen to the debt if/when Joe is deported is another good question.)

The finale report from the BK Trustee was not released all that long ago, a few week before their sentencing I believe. It is my understanding, and Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that now their creditors are free to pursue them in court for any and all monies owed them by the Giudices. I also believe that Joe's ex partner is the only one that already has a judgment against Joe, Teresa was released from that lawsuit by another judge though, that amount is $260K. I think the BK proceedings put everyone on hold until the final report was made, Now it is up to the individual creditor to seek payment in court or through an agreement with the Giudices for payment owing. I think most of them were waiting to see how much the Feds took first and what is left over. There is not much left for them to place a lean against, 2 of the 3 houses are upside down and their mansion has very little equity. I am not sure what vehicles or construction equipment they own outright, they can place leans against them as well but they loose value each day just sitting around. They can force them into selling their personal belongings though, jewelry, furniture, appliances, furs...ect.

 

I would think that if Joe gets deported and Teresa elects to stay here, then she may have to liquidate what ever is left to give his creditors his 1/2 of the marital property. Those creditors that have the oldest debt need to file soon or they will not be able to collect anything. There is a time limit on collecting debts, it varies state to state, but I do believe the failed BK by Teresa/Joe suspended that time frame until that was finalized in court. There was a personal injury lawsuit that had NOT been filed yet against Joe by some woman that he tried to get rid of in BK court, I wonder if she will now file that lawsuit against him, his incarceration would not stop that from happening but his deportation probably would.

 

I really wish some tabloid or blogger would take the time to interview some of Teresa/Joes victims. Viewers seem to think the only ones they ripped off were banks/mortgage companies and the IRS, they have forgotten that there were real people duped by this couple and never paid and that these people have families that had to do without because of Teresa/Joe needed MORE babbles/trinkets. I wish they would interview some of Teresa/Joes tenants that were put at risk because Joe refused to pay the electric bill or buy heating oil in the winter so that Teresa could spend thousands on gaudy furniture, light fixtures, marble fireplaces, furs for themselves and their daughters. Their greed runs deep and has a long history. They started grifting/stealing right after they were married, before Gia was born.

Edited November 4, 2014 by WireWrap

[LotusFlower]

Thanks again, WireWrap. Actually, the bankruptcy filing was withdrawn back in 2011, but I guess the hold-up for the creditors was the case winding its way through the bankruptcy process, as well as the federal fraud case, of course. I Guess the creditors will now have to wait even longer, since both Teresa and Joe are headed to the pokey, and I hear most prisoners only make about $0.25 a day. But I do wonder if any they have any liens against them, or if any creditors have received anything. Anyway, I found a pretty good article on it at nj.com for anyone that's interested:

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2014/04/teresa_giudice_real_housewives_bankruptcy_joe_giudice.html

[hottesthw]

They are still be able to front the lifestyle that Bravo has set for these shows. Teresa will NOT be able to even pretend that she can afford anything. Although the Lauritas are downsizing and the Gorgas are currently renting that does not mean they are poor or even now middle class. It remains to be seen where they will be living next season. Dina is renting an apartment in NYC, Nicole lives with her parents and does not have to worry about big bills because of that. Tamra's house as well as Brandi's/Kim R's rentals will be above what Teresa will be able to rent unless someone co-signs her rental agreement, her Felony and her credit history will make landlords require a co-signer IMO.

Also, I am not sure that Teresa will want to be on a show that features her new no frills lifestyle.

You failed to mention Teresa going after Danielle and man handling Andy! Oh, and Ashley was NOT a HW but since you count that, then Teresa tossing Andy, her boss, like a rag doll counts as well.

I guess you do not believe in postpartum depression either and YES, Caroline DID say that she let it slide because she though it happened due to hormones because it happened just after Jac had CJ.

From the start, Theresa was behind Jac in the infamous country club chase.

I don't know Caroline so I'll have to take your word for it since I can't recall seeing the excuse on the show. I do know people with post partum though, none have ever attacked anyone. I also know these folks were diagnosed by their doctors so it was legit. I don't know Jac and never heard anyone state PP is what she was suffering from at the time so I'm not assuming anything on her behalf. However you don't need a doctor to diagnosis you as an asshole, which Jac has shown repeatedly that she is and what I think played the biggest part in her attack on her SIL.

I guess that explains the long time friendship that Jac can't seem to get over. And why Theresa is avoiding Jac now (trying to change her image and all).

Edited November 4, 2014 by hottesthw

[Lastwaltz]

No huge fan of Tre here, but I saw a terrified and devastated woman who was still dealing with the prospect of leaving her family for over a year. It had only been a few days since the sentencing which, from all reports, came as a huge shock to them both. 

 

Regarding Kathy and Rosie's mom's sad story -- I think it happened more often than we might think during the Depression. People had huge families and then needed communal help from relatives to survive. My mother had a sister with 10 children -- by the time the 10th came along, she just couldn't manage (physically or emotionally), and her cousin raised her 10th child. I remember growing up thinking it was a little weird, but the boy retained a keen sense of who his siblings and parents were, the cousin who couldn't have children raised a wonderful guy, and now, many years after the mother figures have passed, the family treats the 10th child the same as everyone else. 

 

Those twins have got to go. And I can't believe that Amber came out looking a lot smarter than the others, at least in terms of the English language ("the cancer" notwithstanding). On to part 2! 

[Midnight Cheese]

From the start, Theresa was behind Jac in the infamous country club chase.

I don't know Caroline so I'll have to take your word for it since I can't recall seeing the excuse on the show. I do know people with post partum though, none have ever attacked anyone. I also know these folks were diagnosed by their doctors so it was legit. I don't know Jac and never heard anyone state PP is what she was suffering from at the time so I'm not assuming anything on her behalf. However you don't need a doctor to diagnosis you as an asshole, which Jac has shown repeatedly that she is and what I think played the biggest part in her attack on her SIL.

I guess that explains the long time friendship that Jac can't seem to get over. And why Theresa is avoiding Jac now (trying to change her image and all).

 

My recall is that Caroline was being a bossy, nasty bitch to Jac about Jac 'forcing' Chris to 'babysit' Chris, Jr. - his own son.  Jac got pissed and punched her in the face.  Where this bull about 'post-partum' issues comes from I have no idea (meaning: if we can't assume that Jac's own shitty behavior as aired comes from some kind of personality disorder/malfunction, how are we to assume that Jac suffered from PPD?  She didn't say that.  Neither did Don Caro).  It's giving a benefit of the doubt to Jac that others certainly don't receive.  As I see it, Jac and Caroline are both bitches, but Jac's own admissions from her own giant papier-mached gob make her out to be a handsy fucking lunatic.  In one episode, she CERTAINLY admitted, in a confessional, without prompting, that Ashlee frustrated her because as a same-sized or bigger adult, Jac could no longer 'pull her hair' the way she did when her daughter was little.  Yes, she did say that.  What kind of asshole jokes/brags/laughs about that to a damned camera years after the fact?

 

I'm glad she's not pulling a full Howife salary, I think she's foul, and I am quite certain that if Chris Laurita could swing it financially (meaning enough to support 2 households since Jac seems absolutely work incompetent and she's vengeful and has no self-control), Jac would find herself divorced.  Chris has paid a heavy price for some Vegas-trained head.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[motorcitymom65]

Motorcitymom, and maybe others, had a different take on this, or a different theory as to the ratings drop, and it made so much sense to me, so I'll repeat it here and hope I'm remembering it correctly. It's this -- Teresa was the break-out star of the franchise, and has (had?) tons of fans, many of whom are blindly loyal to her, as we know. Teresa and Joe were indicted last year, and had already pled guilty while the season was filming and before ep. 1 aired. Therefore, many fans of the show, ie. Teresa fans, didn't watch this season, because it was too hard or not fun to watch her downfall. Makes a lot of sense. Plus, it's been mirrored on this forum - I noticed that certain posters who were die-hard Teresa fans went MIA.

 

You are remembering correctly and I feel it more strongly today than I did months ago. I have several friends who are loyal Tre fans, and they didn't watch this season at all. They just couldn't stand to see her pain. 

 

I always felt that Teresa's fame skyrocketed when her family came on and she appeared to be picked on. The people who just thought she was funny or cute or whatever suddenly became very protective of her. In general lots of people cannot stand the sight or thought of a "gang up". I never saw it in this way at all.  I saw a mean, hateful, narcissistic person being revealed for who she was. As long as she was the victim of these terribly mean people, folks would tune in and watch because Teresa kept reminding them that she was right and everyone else was wrong. If Teresa hated someone, her fans hated them as well, regardless of what we actually saw on our TV's because Teresa said it was so.  

 

I think that if things would have continued that way this season, her fans would have been there in droves speaking out against her conspirators - if those conspirators had been Kathy, Mel, Jac or Caroline. If this season had been about them mocking her behind her back, talking poorly about her, etc., I think the ratings would have been fantastic. Teresa is popular when she tells us the mean girls are plotting against her. The problem this season is her conspirators weren't her cast members, they were the Feds. 

[Friedbutter]

Yeah, I can't fault Jac for punching Caroline. I know I should, but I can't. She was at the end of her rope with a newborn, which is a fragile place to be, her husband can't even handle "babysitting" for a few hours, and her judgey SIL starts in with "what kind of a mother are you?"

Them's fighting words.

[motorcitymom65]

I seriously doubt she is going to be broke, living in small rental - as you claim.   Her large, extended family would ever let that happen.  She has lots of resources.  And why wouldn't she want to be on a show - that has made her the 2nd highest paying housewife.  RHONJ has always been less focused on wealth - compared to the other franchises in the series.  

 

There are many examples of people in the public eye, who have committed worse felonies - who make comebacks.   The public is usually known to have a short memory and giving 2nd chances.

At LotusFlower pointed out, there is no large extended family in the picture.  Joe has a large family, but the ones closest to him are all in financial straights themselves. They wouldn't have had such a hard time coming up with the money they were supposed to have when they went to court at their sentencing if folks were lurking around with money to loan. There is no money to be found.

 

I do agree that folks make comebacks, but I don't think there are many that do it in these circumstances. Teresa and Juicy seem to have no marketable skills. They are not talented singers, actors, directors, or lifestyles gurus.  Even Teresa's Attorney said that she basically had little way to make a living as she has no real skills or background to make any real money. The most telling thing of all IMO is that they have actually been making some real money over the last couple of years - more money than they ever made before or ever will again. With her Bravo salary, speaking fees, book sales, etc., they were earning a very nice living. Yet even with all of that income, they didn't pay off any of their debt.  Not any of it. They still didn't have the money to pay the fees that are due to the courts. They won't see money like that again. They will be lucky to live in a 4-bedroom rental. 

[Higgins]

The original premise of the NJ show was still based on the HW's wealth. None of the HW shows have ever been about the 1% but they were supposed to be closer to that than not. They were to have much more than average middle class but less than the uber wealthy/yacht class. Name 1 person that committed felonies like or worse that Teresa/Joe's that made a comeback that had "talent" just as the Giudices have, aka/no talent.  And name 1 person that built their entire lifestyle on fraud and then made a legit comeback, just 1 will do.

 

People seem to forget that debt. Do they think it disappears because she Pled Guilty? Teresa and Joe are still on the hook for that money. Even if they sell off all 3 houses they will still be left owing 9.4 million to other creditors that are not going to wait any longer for their money. Who do they think will rent Teresa a house even half the size of her current home? Anyone I have known that had even shaky credit had to have a co-signer to even rent a small modest house/apartment, I can't think of what they will want from someone that owes that kind of money and that pled guilty to 4 counts of fraud. Unless Teresa has some type of deal hidden from the public, which I doubt, she is facing major changes in the way she lives. She has no real marketable skills other than a reality HW that  loves drama.

 

Actually they owe about 8.4 million, I misstated it as 9.4 earlier, to creditors with only about 5 million to mortgages. Some of that money is directly linked to Joe's businesses but creditors could still come after Teresa for some of that money. She was listed on a few businesses he owned. They owe several different Lawyers, the IVF Dr, various small business owners. The amount they owe is staggering! Also, none of those listed were victims of Joe's shoddy work on homes damaged by Hurricane Sandy, that happened AFTER they filed for BK protection. I have to suspect some of them will come after him for that money as well. If Joe gets deported, I wonder if Teresa will be held accountable for any of that money or if she will have to give up 1/2 of whatever is left over from before his deportation. His creditors would be entitled to his 1/2 of their marital estate if Joe goes bye bye to Italy after prison.

There is a statute of limitations on debt. Depending on the kind of debt and the state law, it could be only 3 years from the date of last activity. Much of that debt is uncollectable.

ETA: Looks like New Jersey has a 6 year statute on all debt. After 6 years with no payment, without a court judgment, there is no recourse. There may be court ordered judgments already but, I don't know that much about her situation.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Higgins

[copacabana]

Friedbutter -- That was my reaction also to the Jac-Car encounter.  J., as we now see, has serious self-control issues and Caroline can bring out the worst in people with her relentless professional mother schtick.  Manzo'd with Children is so uncomfortable to watch -- Those children, all of them, seem caught in a permanent state of arrested development.  None of the Manzos we see on TV--including La Dina--seem to be really flexible when it comes to meeting life's frustrations. Occasional exceptions would be Chris (elder), Albert, and sometimes Chris (younger).

 

If J. was suffering from post-partum, and no reason to doubt it, and was being given meds to alleviate the symptoms, I can totally get her losing it and assaulting Caroline and, yeah, them's definitely fighting words. Especially if alcohol was involved. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by copacabana

[Midnight Cheese]

Yeah, I can't fault Jac for punching Caroline. I know I should, but I can't. She was at the end of her rope with a newborn, which is a fragile place to be, her husband can't even handle "babysitting" for a few hours, and her judgey SIL starts in with "what kind of a mother are you?"

Them's fighting words.

Absolutely - I just don't think there's been any evidence whatsoever that Jacqueline suffered from PPD.  She suffered from having a bitchy, manipulative SIL.  This is one of the many incidents that I filed away where I just don't see Caroline's take on anything as being necessarily aligned with reality.  Someone just floated that Jac had PPD as fact in light of the Jac/Caro punch.  It's not been substantiated. 

[eurekagirl mOo]

The most interesting thing to me wasn't Tre. but Amber. Talk about brain washed! Did anyone else catch her saying "If you act like a barbarian you get treated like one?" Sounds like Tiny Tim and his telling his kids to be mean back to mean people. Then she says she doesn't have problems with Jim because she doesn't make him mad. Because apparently he would hit her except that "he knows I'll clock him" WOW. Great marriage there. Don't ever upset TT or it's all over....I can totally see her writing all those nasty things to his ex wife thinking it would make him happy. Where in the holy hell do you find such gross, nasty people. Jim, Amber and the twins are ALL stomach turning. Just UGH.....

[Kellyee]

I watched the rest of it last night, and now I do feel a little bad for Teresa. She did look increasingly miserable as the hour wore on. I hope Andy is not planning to spend the next 2 hours on the legal thing, because it really started to get boring as hell. And i really want to know where Joe Gorga's money is really coming from. I think a lot of these people have creative financial statements.

 

I was surpised that Amber had full lose your hair chemotherapy for stage 1 breast cancer. I don't think that is typical. I assumed she was stage 2. I did like that she owned up to the The Cancer thing and said she would keep saying it and didn't care.

[Higgins]

I watched the rest of it last night, and now I do feel a little bad for Teresa. She did look increasingly miserable as the hour wore on. I hope Andy is not planning to spend the next 2 hours on the legal thing, because it really started to get boring as hell. And i really want to know where Joe Gorga's money is really coming from. I think a lot of these people have creative financial statements.

 

I was surpised that Amber had full lose your hair chemotherapy for stage 1 breast cancer. I don't think that is typical. I assumed she was stage 2. I did like that she owned up to the The Cancer thing and said she would keep saying it and didn't care.

It depends on the type of breast cancer. She may have had triple negative breast cancer which can be very aggressive and has no adjuvant hormonal treatment. That is probably why she had a double mastectomy and an aggressive chemotherapy regimen.

[WireWrap]

My recall is that Caroline was being a bossy, nasty bitch to Jac about Jac 'forcing' Chris to 'babysit' Chris, Jr. - his own son.  Jac got pissed and punched her in the face.  Where this bull about 'post-partum' issues comes from I have no idea (meaning: if we can't assume that Jac's own shitty behavior as aired comes from some kind of personality disorder/malfunction, how are we to assume that Jac suffered from PPD?  She didn't say that.  Neither did Don Caro).  It's giving a benefit of the doubt to Jac that others certainly don't receive.  As I see it, Jac and Caroline are both bitches, but Jac's own admissions from her own giant papier-mached gob make her out to be a handsy fucking lunatic.  In one episode, she CERTAINLY admitted, in a confessional, without prompting, that Ashlee frustrated her because as a same-sized or bigger adult, Jac could no longer 'pull her hair' the way she did when her daughter was little.  Yes, she did say that.  What kind of asshole jokes/brags/laughs about that to a damned camera years after the fact?

 

I'm glad she's not pulling a full Howife salary, I think she's foul, and I am quite certain that if Chris Laurita could swing it financially (meaning enough to support 2 households since Jac seems absolutely work incompetent and she's vengeful and has no self-control), Jac would find herself divorced.  Chris has paid a heavy price for some Vegas-trained head.

No, Caroline did not use the term PPD, that is what I got from the description of events as she described them on season1 reunion. That is when Caroline told the story. Her description was that Jac was "emotional"  after just having CJ and I equated that to PPD because it resulted in an action that was no normal for Jac according to Caroline. I also do NOT excuse Jacs violence but seeing that Caroline, the perceived victim, does is what matters IMO.

[breezy424]

Caroline stated in a blog from two years ago that Jacqueline had postpartum depression after giving birth to CJ:

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/season-4/blogs/caroline-manzo/when-one-door-closes?page=0,1

[Higgins]

The reason she hit somebody is because she is emotionally fucked up. You can tell by her erratic behavior. She drinks too much and acts like a middle school drama queen. She is as bad as Teresa if not worse IMO.

[WireWrap]

No huge fan of Tre here, but I saw a terrified and devastated woman who was still dealing with the prospect of leaving her family for over a year. It had only been a few days since the sentencing which, from all reports, came as a huge shock to them both. 

 

Regarding Kathy and Rosie's mom's sad story -- I think it happened more often than we might think during the Depression. People had huge families and then needed communal help from relatives to survive. My mother had a sister with 10 children -- by the time the 10th came along, she just couldn't manage (physically or emotionally), and her cousin raised her 10th child. I remember growing up thinking it was a little weird, but the boy retained a keen sense of who his siblings and parents were, the cousin who couldn't have children raised a wonderful guy, and now, many years after the mother figures have passed, the family treats the 10th child the same as everyone else. 

 

Those twins have got to go. And I can't believe that Amber came out looking a lot smarter than the others, at least in terms of the English language ("the cancer" notwithstanding). On to part 2! 

Mrs P is the oldest child in her family and was sent to the Aunt because that Aunt could not have children of her own. Although she knew who her real parents were, she was NOT raised to look at them as her parents and rarely saw them or her siblings. That was what she said when she told the story.

Caroline stated in a blog from two years ago that Jacqueline had postpartum depression after giving birth to CJ:

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/season-4/blogs/caroline-manzo/when-one-door-closes?page=0,1

Thank You for finding that!

[zoeysmom]

There is a statute of limitations on debt. Depending on the kind of debt and the state law, it could be only 3 years from the date of last activity. Much of that debt is uncollectable.

ETA: Looks like New Jersey has a 6 year statute on all debt. After 6 years with no payment, without a court judgment, there is no recourse. There may be court ordered judgments already but, I don't know that much about her situation.

Bankruptcy stays the statute of limitations.  That is why people can't file for BK and wait for the statute to run and then dismiss their BK.

[Higgins]

Was there a bankruptcy? I thought  it wasn't granted.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Higgins

[zoeysmom]

The reason she hit somebody is because she is emotionally fucked up. You can tell by her erratic behavior. She drinks too much and acts like a middle school drama queen. She is as bad as Teresa if not worse IMO.

Not meaning to be bitchy but how does anyone know how much "she" drinks.  I have never really seen any of the HW drunk except maybe Melissa being tipsy or Rosie slugging a few down with the guys.  I would assume you are talking about Jacqueline?  Her name doesn't appear in your post. 

"

[njbchlover]

I watched the rest of it last night, and now I do feel a little bad for Teresa. She did look increasingly miserable as the hour wore on. I hope Andy is not planning to spend the next 2 hours on the legal thing, because it really started to get boring as hell. And i really want to know where Joe Gorga's money is really coming from. I think a lot of these people have creative financial statements.

 

I was surpised that Amber had full lose your hair chemotherapy for stage 1 breast cancer. I don't think that is typical. I assumed she was stage 2. I did like that she owned up to the The Cancer thing and said she would keep saying it and didn't care.

 

He's "first and foremost, a real estate developer"...didn't you know that, LOL!!  That's what Melissa said when Andy asked her how the document shredding/destroying business was doing.  She said that was just one of the businesses that Joe has invested in, and didn't really seem to have too much knowledge about if the business is currently successful.  I, too, wonder where their money is coming from, although I do think that they don't front as much as some of the others.

Melissa is good at deflecting and giving non-answers.

[zoeysmom]

Was there a bankruptcy? I thought they withdrew it or it wasn't granted.

Of course there was a BK the Giudices pled guilty to BK fraud.  Their discharge was denied so they withdrew the petition. 

[Higgins]

Of course there was a BK the Giudices pled guilty to BK fraud.  Their discharge was denied so they withdrew the petition. 

So why would bankruptcy stay on the statute of limitations apply here if the discharge was denied?

[shoegal]

So why would bankruptcy stay on the statute of limitations apply here if the discharge was denied?

 

I assume that the statute of limitations would not be applied during the time that the bankruptcy petition was submitted and active, even though it was ultimately denied.  So people can't cheat the system and file bankruptcy as a means to run out the clock on the statute of limitations. 

 

Not that the Giudice clan would ever try to cheat the system. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by shoegal

[Lastwaltz]

Mrs P is the oldest child in her family and was sent to the Aunt because that Aunt could not have children of her own. Although she knew who her real parents were, she was NOT raised to look at them as her parents and rarely saw them or her siblings. That was what she said when she told the story.

 

Ah, so the inverse of what my family's experience was, thanks for clarifying. 

[Higgins]

I assume that the statute of limitations would not be applied during the time that the bankruptcy petition was submitted and active, even thought it was ultimately denied.  So people can't cheat the system and file bankruptcy as a means to run out the clock on the statute of limitations. 

 

Not that the Guidice clan would ever try to cheat the system. 

I understand that but, their debt was not discharged by the bankruptcy so it seems to me except the fraudulent debt which I believe extends the statute, the statute would still apply at some point anyway. There is a reason for it.

\

[shoegal]

I understand that but, their debt was not discharged by the bankruptcy so it seems to me except the fraudulent debt which I believe extends the statute, the statute would still apply at some point anyway. There is a reason for it.

\

 

I believe the statute would apply from the date of the default to the bankruptcy petition, then from the date of the discharge being denied.  Basically, you pause or remove the portion of time between filing bankruptcy and the denial or resolution, which in the Giudice case was 5 years. 

[hottesthw]

I assume that the statute of limitations would not be applied during the time that the bankruptcy petition was submitted and active, even thought it was ultimately denied. So people can't cheat the system and file bankruptcy as a means to run out the clock on the statute of limitations.

Not that the Giudice clan would ever try to cheat the system.

I think this is why noone reports on it ever. It's so damn confusing and unless you are their attorney, BFF, family member or part of their inner circle, you really don't know for sure. I live here and that news website that keeps being quoted is far from prize winning with their accurate and intelligent reporting. No journalist cares enough to sift thru whatever public records may be out there. So instead we get numbers flailing around from one blog to the next, and some bloggers stating them as fact, then it ends up in a paper, so people like us just believe it.

There's so much shit involved in this mess who knows what's what.

Caroline stated in a blog from two years ago that Jacqueline had postpartum depression after giving birth to CJ:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-jersey/season-4/blogs/caroline-manzo/when-one-door-closes?page=0,1

So Caroline diagnosed her. [/sarcasm]

That was during the height of Theresa bashing, I'm taking that blog with a large vat of salt.

But thanks for posting the link showing it was said.

[Higgins]

This kind of law is very confusing and specialized. It hard to determine what applies.

[WireWrap]

I believe the statute would apply from the date of the default to the bankruptcy petition, then from the date of the discharge being denied.  Basically, you pause or remove the portion of time between filing bankruptcy and the denial or resolution, which in the Giudice case was 5 years. 

The BK Court did NOT release their final report until a couple of week before Teresa/Joe were sentenced on Oct.2 It took a long time!

[shoegal]

This kind of law is very confusing and specialized. It hard to determine what applies.

 

Personally, I don't think it really matters how the law applies, because I don't believe Teresa has any intention of following the law regardless.  Statute of limitations or not, I wholeheartedly believe that Teresa has absolutely no intention of paying anything back, and if she is sued for anything, she'll do whatever she can do avoid any court ordered payments (cash only book signings, anyone??).  Teresa is a criminal and a thief, that's not going to change.

Edited November 4, 2014 by shoegal

[Higgins]

There is wage garnishment. They can also freeze and collect from a bank account. So if she ever works again for Bravo or anybody else in the next 6 years, she is subject to the court attaching her asset.

I suppose she could make money that way but if she were to get a contract of some type, the would most likely not agree to pay her cash.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Higgins

[WireWrap]

I think this is why noone reports on it ever. It's so damn confusing and unless you are their attorney, BFF, family member or part of their inner circle, you really don't know for sure. I live here and that news website that keeps being quoted is far from prize winning with their accurate and intelligent reporting. No journalist cares enough to sift thru whatever public records may be out there. So instead we get numbers flailing around from one blog to the next, and some bloggers stating them as fact, then it ends up in a paper, so people like us just believe it.

There's so much shit involved in this mess who knows what's what.

So Caroline diagnosed her. [/sarcasm]

That was during the height of Theresa bashing, I'm taking that blog with a large vat of salt.

But thanks for posting the link showing it was said.

Where does Caroline say that she diagnosed Jac as having PPD? In the 6 seasons we have watched this show have we ever seen Jac lay a hand on anyone to physically hurt them? The only HW that has been physically aggressive/violent has been Teresa and that was toward Danielle/Andy at the season 2 reunion. 

[Gigi43]

Yes. And in my book grown adults don't lay hands on each other. Ever. I don't recall any HW laying hands on another during this franchise. Oh wait that's right, Ashlee/Ashley did. Oh wait, whose daughter is she?

And no, flipping a table does not equate to punching a family member in the face IMO.

My sister had a baby recently and we managed to get thru 9 months without anyone getting smacked around. Hormones is a bullshit excuse (which I don't recall hearing Caroline state) and quite frankly insulting to pregnant women everywhere. Jac is unhinged, plain and simple.

Last year's season finale didn't Jaqueline hit someone with a shoe? She, Chris and Joe Gorga had to go to court over the fight. Right away even the morning after said fight on the finale it seemed like Joe Gorga no less was trying to claim more responsibility since Jaq and Chris "have so much to deal with with Nicholas" so better him with his ordinary healthy kids to have a legal issue regardless of actual adult personal responsibility, and the Lauritas were all too willing to play into that (imo I think that's when Melissa officially wanted done with Jaqueline) but that whole thing was Jaq being pissed about something said on Twitter. Jac was pregnant on the show with Nicholas and didn't breathe a word about past PPD and until people really questioned The Punch it never came up... until she needed an excuse to her behavior. Kind of like now whenever she's erratic and then goes into how stressed she is with Nicholas. Not too stressed that she can't be on Twitter, not too stressed she can't yell accusations at reunions. Just any point in time anyone wants her accountable for something.

[Midnight Cheese]

I agree with hottesthw - thanks for the blog link breezy424, I didn't remember that at all.  But frankly, and just IMO, of course Caroline will dust off her MD (I'm sure she earned it like she was willing to earn Albie's second degree for him but for the meanies at Seton Hall) and claim this instead of writing "I was a giant asshole and told my SIL she was wrong for having her husband 'babysit' his own newborn.'  Chick is full of shit as far as I'm concerned. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[BostonBlonde]

Kathy is so pathetically desperate that now it's getting comical. She gets an A for effort I guess.

Couldn't agree more.

Edited November 8, 2014 by BostonBlonde

[Higgins]

He's "first and foremost, a real estate developer"...didn't you know that, LOL!!  That's what Melissa said when Andy asked her how the document shredding/destroying business was doing.  She said that was just one of the businesses that Joe has invested in, and didn't really seem to have too much knowledge about if the business is currently successful.  I, too, wonder where their money is coming from, although I do think that they don't front as much as some of the others.

Melissa is good at deflecting and giving non-answers.

Their money is coming from Bravo. I think that is pretty much all they have really going on. They are fronting like the rest of them.

[Higgins]

The BK Court did NOT release their final report until a couple of week before Teresa/Joe were sentenced on Oct.2 It took a long time!

I don't know if the BK re-aged the debt but if it didn't, the statute clock starts from the last activity or payment. So, if they hadn't made a payment to Neiman Marcus for 3 years before the stay then, they have 3 years to go to the courts for remedy.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Higgins

[WireWrap]

Last year's season finale didn't Jaqueline hit someone with a shoe? She, Chris and Joe Gorga had to go to court over the fight. Right away even the morning after said fight on the finale it seemed like Joe Gorga no less was trying to claim more responsibility since Jaq and Chris "have so much to deal with with Nicholas" so better him with his ordinary healthy kids to have a legal issue regardless of actual adult personal responsibility, and the Lauritas were all too willing to play into that (imo I think that's when Melissa officially wanted done with Jaqueline) but that whole thing was Jaq being pissed about something said on Twitter. Jac was pregnant on the show with Nicholas and didn't breathe a word about past PPD and until people really questioned The Punch it never came up... until she needed an excuse to her behavior. Kind of like now whenever she's erratic and then goes into how stressed she is with Nicholas. Not too stressed that she can't be on Twitter, not too stressed she can't yell accusations at reunions. Just any point in time anyone wants her accountable for something.

When did Jac use PPD as an excuse on the show? It seems that Caroline is the one that said it, not Jac. And it was Teresa that brought it up on the show again 2 seasons ago to hurt Jac and that is why Caroline revealed the PPD diagnoses. I agree that she needs to stop with the twitter rants but she is NOT the only HW to use twitter as an extension of the show. Teresa did as well until Feldman put a stop to it and Dina has used it this season as well, Dina has gone so far as to post videos "explaining" her side of the story from the reunion. LOL

 

 When did Jac "yell out" accusations at the reunion that were not in direct response to Teresa revealing something personal, true OR not, about Jac first? Teresa knows which buttons to push when it comes to Jac, she succeeds in getting Jac to over react like it is child's play, she does that well with most of the other HW's as well. Teresa is a master of deflection by knowing her opponents weak spots, and YES Jac does seems to have a few of those, and zeroing in on them relentlessly until that person reacts then she cries that she is THE victim! 

 

I find it fascinating that some see Teresa more as a victim of the other HWs and some see her more as the aggressor! LOL

Edited November 4, 2014 by Lisin

[WireWrap]

I don't know if the BK re-aged the debt but if it didn't, the statute clock starts from the last activity or payment. So, if they hadn't made a payment to Neiman Marcus for 3 years before the stay then, they have 3 years to go to the courts for remedy.

 

From what I read, it does rest the clock but I am not versed in BK law or debt collection law.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Lisin

[SFoster21]

I think Caroline just used the words hormones or hormonal, not specifically PPD.

[SoCal4Us]

How about Juicy having a new go to line:  "If you stabbed me with a knife, I wouldn't even feel it."

 

TerEHsa's line:  "You hit my mother and my husband below the belt."

 

Nicole:  "Beautiful dress!"

 

Teresa:  "Find a penny…"

 

Dina:  "I never bring up the indictment."

 

Melissa:  Thinking to herself "How long do I have to go on with this farce?  I need to be On Display!"

 

Okay, maybe not that funny but I'm trying haha!

[eurekagirl mOo]

I'm really getting angry at how posters are attacking each other. We are ALL entitled to our opinions and we certainly do not have to agree. But PLEASE let's treat each other with respect. I'm not liking the tone of a lot of these posts. I used to complain about TWOP Howard to but right now I'd like to see her slam in and stop this crap. These boards are respectful and we DO NOT attack each other.

[Lisin]

Hi gang. 1) STOP IT with the sniping at each other. Bashing other posters will not be tolerated, we've deleted several posts and if it continues we will have to lock this topic down. Please, snark the show not your fellow posters. 2) If you see someone attacking another poster don't engage, report it. Don't let the thread devolve into petty sniping. It isn't fun. Thank you. 

[eurekagirl mOo]

Hey Lisin-Amen and Thank You

[Midnight Cheese]

 

I find it fascinating that some see Teresa more as a victim of the other HWs and some see her more as the aggressor! LOL

True, Wire Wrap.  I really, really can't handle Jac or Caroline but I also really don't see Teresa as calm person at all; the incident where Ashlee physically ripped out Dinyell's hair started because of Teresa chasing her down the country club (or Brownstone?  I don't remember), with Jac in hot pursuit and staring down Dinyell as Dinyell cowered in her town car after being attacked by Ashlee (Ashlee of course floated the bullshit that she was 'defending her mom' because she'd 'heard' Dinyell hit Jac.  Such damned b.s.).  I wanted Ashlee, Jac and Teresa all to get backhanded by fate for that mess.  All three of them charged after 1 woman who was trying to beat a retreat.  It was disgusting, though it did lead to Teresa's "Silverback" nickname, since she and Jac were I believe wearing janky furs courtesy of Posche Boutique while giving chase.  I just think Jac is also a very aggressive (aggressive-aggressive and passive-aggressive) woman in her own right - and nobody's victim, as much as she is equally IMO desperate to claim victim status. 

[Notmuchofacook]

Tre looked shell-shocked and really medicated at the reunion. She still throws shit out there, though, to see if it will stick. Never hits below the belt??? Come ON! I used to like Dina, but she was getting all up in Tre's business at the reunion (as Tre was Dina's) and I don't think Andy appreciated it. Furthermore, she may be alienated from Caroline, but those family genes are strong: they laugh the same, tilt their heads the same, and are convinced of their absolute rightness. Also, teeth.

[zoeysmom]

So why would bankruptcy stay on the statute of limitations apply here if the discharge was denied?

Once you file BK there is an automatic stay in place.  While things are being hashed out and until the discharge is granted the stay is in place.  A creditor has to apply for leave from the stay to file an adversary action.  One creditor did-Joe's former business partner.

 

Last spring the BK court closed the case essentially, and no longer has jurisdiction.  So the creditors are given the opportunity to file or execute judgments.  The Giudices, after the appeal time ran out then placed three properties and a at least one car up for sale.  So they are trying to sell before judgments can be obtained.

 

A stay is put in place to protect the estate.  If someone knew they were about to be sued, the statute of limitations was looming, all they would have to do is file BK, and then wait until the statute had passed and dismiss the BK.