S05.E04: Slabtown

[mandolin]

A couple of things I haven't seen mentioned:

I'm really digging the call backs to past seasons. Last week Glenn mentioned Jim and this week when Beth is talking to Dawn about having hope in this new life- I can't remember the exact conversion- and Dawn grabs her wrist and you can see the scar on her wrist from her S2 suicide attempt.

I just rewatched Seed (s03e01) to cleanse this ep from my brain, and they use whistling to alert others that things are ok (or not). That's been pretty consistent I think. They have used that this season as well.

Also, re: the Atlanta skyline, I did see the Equitable building, Peachtree Plaza, and Peachtree Tower.

[Iguessnot]

Last week, when I saw the previews I thought it was improbable that Beth, during the ZA would bang on a hospital door and yell, yet when the door opens not be prepared to fight, only ready to pin prick the intruder. Well, we saw that's just how Beth rolls. Double sigh.

 

By the way, why was she banging on the door? Those room doors don't lock.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Iguessnot

[RustbeltWriter]

I enjoyed this episode for a couple reasons. First, Beth has the potential to grow as a character, much the same way Carol did. She started out kind of meek and naive but this episode shows us that she is growing and adapting to the new world. Rick, Darryl and Michonne are fine but they all started out (or were presented to us) as hardasses. Beth has a lot of potential for development and now we're starting to see it.

 

Second, this episode reminded me of Pegasus in Battlestar Galactica. There, we got to see the road Adama didn't take, where his aggressiveness was tempered by Rosalyn's compassion and Cain didn't have a similar influence. This episode was much the same. This hospital group is led by a police officer, just like Rick's group, only they've had to face a different set of challenges and they've done it without the influence of someone like Dale or Herschel. We can say we don't like Dawn but we don't know what she's had to do to keep her group alive or what threats they've faced.

 

Even though it seems like they are stuck in Georgia, I like the visit to Atlanta. It would be nice to see someone acknowledge the explosion at the CDC or see the Vatos make an appearance but otherwise we got another perspective of what happened when civilization finally collapsed. I enjoy hearing those stories.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RustbeltWriter

[Pandora]

Also, re: the Atlanta skyline, I did see the Equitable building, Peachtree Plaza, and Peachtree Tower.

 

One of the buildings I recognized was the Mariott Marquis, which is one of the host hotels for Dragoncon. Maybe it was a sly shout-out.

[shanndee]

It is inconceivable that Morgan is Noah's uncle so I hope that they writers don't go there. Morgan was with his son, Dwayne and then by himself. I cannot imagine where he would find a nephew.

 

Actually, I think it could work out fairly easily. Morgan's brother and Noah find Morgan's compound. They all live there for awhile, but Morgan's brother can't deal with the wreck that Morgan has become. He tries to bring Morgan around and fails. He offers Morgan one last chance to join them on the road. Morgan refuses. Shortly after they leave. Morgan decides to choose to live with his family. He sets out to follow them. He arrives in time to see his nephew abducted and his brother abandoned. Brother dies from his wounds. Morgan sets out in search of his nephew.

 

Totally do-able. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by shanndee

[Boofish]

 

Even though it seems like they are stuck in Georgia, I like the visit to Atlanta. It would be nice to see someone acknowledge the explosion at the CDC or see the Vatos make an appearance but otherwise we got another perspective of what happened when civilization finally collapsed. I enjoy hearing those stories.

They are all dead (the Vatos) In a deleted scene from Season 1 - they leave the CDC without a plan (SHOCKER) and Rick suggests they go back to the nursing home believing they would give them temporary shelter. They get there and everyone has been executed and or burned there is nothing left. This is the first time you see the tension between Carol/Daryl and Daryl/Andrea. I think this is where some of the guilt and determination Daryl had to find Sophia came into play because just the night before he was telling Carol "to shut her up or I will"

 

It's on YouTube if anyone is interested. They also pass by the same place in Clear I believe and they show it burned out with charred bodies in the yard

[Iguessnot]

Watching the episode again may solve this, but I couldn't make myself watch it again.  But, I wonder if some of those headshots came from the cops who were chasing Beth.  I know the viewer didn't know they were then until the camera pulled back at the last minute.  But there was a moment when all you saw was Beth and the Walkers (and Noah hobbling along) and the camera pulled back and you saw some cops not too far behind Beth and I think they were shooting.  Right?  Wrong?  Does anybody even care?

The cops did start shooting at the end, but Beth was blowing them away at a steady pace while still in the basement.

[transgojobot]

I didn't count the shots so I can't be sure, but I think Beth might have inherited Hershel's Infinite Ammo cheat.

 

What's survival horror, without an infinite ammo cheat/glitch? 

[lulee]

It is inconceivable that Morgan is Noah's uncle so I hope that they writers don't go there. Morgan was with his son, Dwayne and then by himself. I cannot imagine where he would find a nephew.

I'm confused. I thought Noah said that he and his dad were on their way to his uncle's, implying that they'd never made it there. There's no evidence that he's Morgan's nephew. Heck - he could be another character's. For all we know, Rick had a sister and she was Noah's mother. Or, of course, he could be unrelated to all the current characters.

[JackONeill]

Maybe, just maybe, Noah is the Governor's half-son.  And he wants to know what happened to his half-sister!!!

[Nashville]

Are they ever going to get out of Atlanta?  Ever?

 

Know the old saying: go around your ass to scratch your elbow.  That's our crew.  They have walked and walked and walked and they're still in the same frigging spot.

One of my pet peeves as well. I'm certain the GA Governor's office cut them some really really sweet deals to keep the shooting GA-centric, but it's not translating well into the story line. It's been over a year since the Atlanta CDC went all explodey, and they've traveled what - 150 miles since then? They're apparently still within the range of a half-tank of gas (Gradymobile out&back), so it can't be much further than that.

Semi-minor nitpick for me. When Beth was grinding up that tablet with the mortar and pestle, mixing it with water and injecting it - would that even really kill the doctor-patient? It was such a small dose. I mean, first of all, the Clozapine or whatever it was, was in pill format, which means it is most effective when absorbed by the stomach. Second, each pill contains a precise dose. Beth semi-ground up the pill, barely mixed it with water and injected a very small amount of it.

 

There is no way that amount of drug would kill him - he had the equivilent of small piece of the end of the pill injected into him. Nowhere near the strength of the pill itself. I can only think that that particular drug cannot be injected into a body, even in tiny amounts, or that Beth actually introduced an air bubble into the syringe.

 

For some reason, I was under the impression that the drug that Beth injected, interacted with what the patient was already on, which is what killed him. Anyway, just my nitpick.

I agree. The theory of what Beth was doing was sound - doctors and pharmacists did it that way for years, after all, before the advent of ready-made and quickly-shipped solutions - but the execution sucked. The pills would have to be ground up MUCH finer, and the solution would need to be much more carefully measured to have even a prayer of getting the dosage accurate.

Also, I'm still a bit confused as to why that lady cop slapped Beth the first time. She was mad at the doctor for not being able to save that guy that fell from the roof and then she slaps Beth? What for? I know that Gorman said something about "she should've been mine." Did the doctor "claim" Beth? Even so, i still don't understand what slapping Beth had to do with anything. And why was the lady cop so adamant about saving that guy anyway? It was never fully explained.

Dawn was PO'ed at the doc, but she needs him - so she took out her anger at him on the next available face. Speaks to poor impulse control. :)

So this group had a previous leader before Dawn? See, I missed that. I don't know if it was because I kept nodding off, or if the backstory just wasn't told in a compelling and clear way, but I totally missed that. 

Some dude named Hansen/Hanson - apparently Dawn's superior officer when the post-ZA Grady operation first started up. Both Dawn and the doc mention him at different times.

I didn't count the shots so I can't be sure, but I think Beth might have inherited Hershel's Infinite Ammo cheat.

<grin> I thought so as well at first; I kept thinking, "Chicklet, you better save some ammo for the rest of Atlanta you have to get through!" I left the TV running through the episode encore, though, and counted shots the second time around. It's hard to be specific because they were doing some special effects mucking-about with the audio in the scene, but I only counted about 6 or 7 actual shots in the replay. Well within the capacity of a standard semi-auto magazine, even if the bunghole in blue behind her never fired a shot.

P. S.: If Bunghole WAS firing, I'm betting his partner (the one who tackled Beth) was severely piiiiiiiiiisssssssed off. You know, considering he was in the line of fire and all.... ;)

[nachomama]

I shouted "Everybody Hates Noah" at my tv, the first kid who got sick last season, who turned in the prison and got everyone else sick, was Chris' little buddy so there must be a casting director who worked for both shows. I'm hoping that Noah is with Daryl and they sent Carol in undercover, otherwise this episode wasn't spectacular. 

 

I was playing a little drinking game with myself, drink every time Beth gets slapped. I was happily tipsy by the end of the episode. I was like "yes, hit her in the same spot, really leave a scar".      

[Nashville]

I just don't see how all that could have happened in the time span.  I mean, does Daryl still have the car?  It didn't get that damaged?  Well, if he still has the car, why did he feel the need to walk to the church, instead of just drive up?  And just how close are they to Atlanta?  I mean the whole Daryl/Carol making like Smokey and chasing the speeding car just started the day before, right?  And Noah didn't look like he could force-march through the woods if they didn't have a car?  Not in the time they had, unless Atlanta is just around the next hill.

At the start of this episode we jumped back about a week, to when Beth and Daryl got split. In the parallel story line Daryl is strolling along with Country Joe and the Claimjumpers, until Rick gets to work on his Count Chocula impression.

[Helena Dax]

 

I have been thinking that maybe Daryl and Carol came across Noah who told them about the hospital and Beth. Carol decided to play victim and to get inside the hospital to help Beth escape when the rest of the group comes to the rescue.

Yeah, that's what I think too. Since Daryl and Carol were following  that  car, it makes sense they were near the  hospital and came across Noah.

 

The situation at the hospital makes sense too if you accept that Dawn honestly believes her own lies,  which is possible. They're "saving" people and  they think it's fair expecting some quid pro quo from them. And sometimes these people they've rescued are so stupid they want to run away, so Dawn and her officers are  "forced" to get them back. For their own  good. I'm sure Dawn would be confused if someone told her she's evil. 

 

I liked the episode. Beth isn't my favourite character but I don't hate her either and I found the stuff at the hospital interesting. I liked Noah too, so I hope he stays.

 

Maybe Daryl, Carol and Beth get to rescue some of the people at the hospital and they're the ones hiding behind the trees. If Daryl thinks Rick and the others won't be happy to see more unkonwn people  wanting to join the group, that would explain Daryl's expression when he's talking with Michonne. Because imo, the other choice is that Carol's dead and I don't want that at all.

[LilySilver]

Last week, when I saw the previews I thought it was improbable that Beth, during the ZA would bang on a hospital door and yell, yet when the door opens not be prepared to fight, only ready to pin prick the intruder. Well, we saw that's just how Beth rolls. Double sigh.

 

By the way, why was she banging on the door? Those room doors don't lock.

Yes, and frustratingly improbable that she and Noah would lower themselves into a pit of walkers without weapons, save for the gun she only recently acquired by happenstance (and which gun is probably what alerted everyone to their attempted escape).  We've seen that many things can be made into weapons to use against walkers, so I kept waiting to see the part of her bed that she's fashioned into a shiv, or at least a butterknife she'd stolen from the cafeteria!  Barring that, I expected her to yank a broken bone from one of the bodies at the bottom of the shaft and tell Noah to do the same.  Poor planning, Beth!

[LilySilver]

Actually, I think it could work out fairly easily. Morgan's brother and Noah find Morgan's compound. They all live there for awhile, but Morgan's brother can't deal with the wreck that Morgan has become. He tries to bring Morgan around and fails. He offers Morgan one last chance to join them on the road. Morgan refuses. Shortly after they leave. Morgan decides to choose to live with his family. He sets out to follow them. He arrives in time to see his nephew abducted and his brother abandoned. Brother dies from his wounds. Morgan sets out in search of his nephew.

 

Totally do-able. 

Noah told Beth he had been at the hospital for a year, so it doesn't work with the timeline of when we last saw Morgan, unless he takes awhile to decide to leave and sees Rick, Carl, and Michonne in the interim.  I will be a little irritated if Noah just happens to be Morgan's nephew, among millions of people. That would be silly, I think.

 

I am enjoying this idea of the parallels between the hospital group and CDB, though.  Clearly Dawn and Hanson were fairly close, pictured together pre-ZA.  He was someone she respected, at least.  She felt she had to take him out--ala Shane, as others have pointed out.  Rather than "banishing" (still using that word under protest) group members who harm other members of the group (Gorman/Carol--though very different motives, yes--or even the group's unwillingness to accept Merle) Dawn takes the path of least resistance, justifying her choices with ends-justify-the-means type "greater good" arguments and dehumanizing herself and the cute little wards in the process.  

 

In the hospital we hear the echo of "everyone has a job to do," but at the prison it was real work willingly done for the good and survival of the family. Work done to keep the community healthy and alive and even happy.  At the hospital, it's busy-work done to pay off manufactured debt (debt created when you get kidnapped and forced to submit to medical treatment, receive meals, etc.)--or work done to save your own hide, make yourself important, like the Doctor does.  Or self-serving, predatory work like Gorman does.

 

Dawn makes decisions that can't be questioned, from her pressed blue suit and her failure to come to grips with the reality staring her in the face.  Rick gives up his uniform, faces the new world, and struggles with making decisions....struggles mightily, our dear Clutterbuck does.   Nor does he worry at all about keeping things "neat".  Rick keeps it real, whatever other complaints I might have about him. (Okay, except, you know, when he's all..."Operator? Uh, can you help me place this call? 'Cause I can't read the number that you just gave me..."  Except for then.)

 

So Beth can make a choice. She can trade her freedom for the appearance of safety, the way the Doctor has done and surely others have done. I wish they had shown us a few more of those others in a way we could understand and compare to Joan's, Noah's, and Beth's experiences of the place.   I wish they had shown us why they so very much need  more people there (wouldn't have been difficult) and shown us what power Dawn held over the rapey officers than kept them from overthrowing her. The subject came up repeatedly, but I think the only explanation we really got was the Doctor saying she had saved them all from Hanson's bad decision making....?  I might have missed it, I was multi-tasking through the whole episode.

 

Still, I like the opportunity to see that Beth does not choose the path of least resistance, and she doesn't choose suicide. She looks angry when Dawn implies she is too weak for this world and therefor should be happy to serve the rapey officers in payment for keeping her safe and fed.

 

Did we have to go there with the guinea pigs?  I suppose there might be some available at a research hospital (among other animals), and they are in fact used as a food source in other parts of the world.  But all I could see was my first-grade class pet Squeaky.  On a spit.   Why not rats? Plenty of them in Atlanta, I'm sure. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by LilySilver

[Iguessnot]

So I rewatched the scene when Officer Friendly brings in the lollipop. Beth is standing at a work table next to a sink. She has some bloody rags in a bucket. I suppose Emily is demonstrating washing rags, but she seems to be tearing into the rags, looking for lice or something. So with her hands and wrist cast bloodied, she stares at the wall, then turns her attention to the bed corner where she is either looking for something or making sure those corners are tight. The alien bug Emily can't control her body very well so it's never really clear what she's doing. Officer Friendly let's us know she was looking for a lollipop.

 

But I'm left wondering was she looking for a lollipop in those bloody rags. What caused her to turn away from that unknown task to scrounge for lollipops all the sudden? It also seems the director forgot her hands were covered in gore before fiddling with the bed where her hands were miraculously clean.

 

I get the feeling they have to keep shooting scenes with this woman, and still can't come up with good footage. Even the actress who played Lizzie, whose acting was sometimes inconsistent, had better acting chops. 

[JackONeill]

How 'bout we just never talk about what the meat on the spit is?  I'm totally fine with that.

[patchwork]

I was surprised she didn't have a weapon other than the gun too,  when she fired at the first one and I thought 'fool, they're attracted to noise why did you do that? Stab it in the eye!'

 

If I wanted to be kind I guess I could say that they wanted to show that while Beth has had training she lacks field experience.

 

All in all though I liked it, the show explained what happened to her and we saw a Shane-like leader in charge who believed whole heartedly that the ends will justify the means. It's an interesting set-up for the Carol/Daryl/Beth subplot we'll probably be getting for most of the season.  

[JackONeill]

I, too, would have liked to know how many people were there, and, most interestingly, why the fellow cops didn't pull a coup.  (I know the theories.  Still.)

 

You know, with the cops making runs to pick up people like Beth, didn't they see any other places that'd make a better home than a hospital right in the heart of the largest city in the southeast?  What about a prison?  Or a little quaint town called Woodbury? Or a farm?  Or a rail yard with lots of Big Green Eggs?  And how come they didn't run across Joe?  Think of the fun of that.

Edited November 3, 2014 by JackONeill

[CletusMusashi]

About the guinea pigs: I think it was to make clear that they were raising lab animals for food. If they'd said mice, rats, or rabbits, viewers might simply think they were trapping wild ones. Also, they're bigger than rats, so until proven otherwise I'm going to picture all their electricity being provided by a giant system of guinea pig treadmills.

About Beth's acting: Under-acting can bother people as much as over-acting. I actually found it to be a plausible depiction of somebody who's being real-life stoic, as opposed to cigar-chomping, winking-at-the-audience Hollywood stoic. Granted, the latter is more fun, but the former is more realistic. She wasn't in a situation where charisma was the goal, she was in a situation where fading into the woodwork was. 

About the episode: I didn't even bother watching it until 1AM. After watching Bob take pretty much an entire hour to finally get off my TV, I feared we were into that mid-half-season slowdown that they so like to do. I was wrong. I liked the setting, I liked the characters, and, no, I did not mind going a week without Rick, Gabriel, Eugene, or Yosemite Sam.

[Nashville]

I, too, would have liked to know how many people were there, and, most interestingly, why the fellow cops didn't pull a coup.  (I know the theories.  Still.)

 

Why bother? Dawn is largely a figurehead at best. The Rapey Raiders pretty much have the run of the place, while Dawn rationalizes their actions to everybody else and deals with all the administrative scut.

[morgankobi]

I'm glad this didn't become Everyone Eats Chris, and I think he's limping with Carol and Beth helping him on either side when Darryl emerges from the woods. But if we're with Abraham next week, we have to go back in time again to pick up the hospital storyline in time to see Carol wake up and kick ass in 2-3 weeks. I'd rather flash between groups in one episode than spend whole hours with one group.

 

Did Beth not notice the cars with the crosses in the back window out in the parking lot? Has she not figured it out yet? I thought she would call Dawn on that.

 

I think Beth was going to threaten to kill the good doc with the scalpel, hold him hostage, to get out of the hospital. But there was nothing to support that-just my fanwank.

[RustbeltWriter]

They are all dead (the Vatos) In a deleted scene from Season 1 - they leave the CDC without a plan (SHOCKER) and Rick suggests they go back to the nursing home believing they would give them temporary shelter. They get there and everyone has been executed and or burned there is nothing left. This is the first time you see the tension between Carol/Daryl and Daryl/Andrea. I think this is where some of the guilt and determination Daryl had to find Sophia came into play because just the night before he was telling Carol "to shut her up or I will"

 

It's on YouTube if anyone is interested. They also pass by the same place in Clear I believe and they show it burned out with charred bodies in the yard

 

Aw man. I was hoping we'd get a better outcome than that. I still would have liked to see the doctor comment on the CDC exploding.

[kikismom]

. Utimately, it didn't work out, but at least she tried     https://twitter.com/The_GovernorTWD/status/529105844294529024/photo/1

[ghoulina]

Did Beth not notice the cars with the crosses in the back window out in the parking lot? Has she not figured it out yet? I thought she would call Dawn on that.

 

It really bothered me that Beth didn't try to take one of those cars. She just ran right past them! She couldn't at least LOOK and see if someone had left the keys in one? As soon as we saw those cars, I told my husband - "Watch, she snagged one of those and that's who Daryl and Carol saw driving around". But, nope. 

[Nutjob]

 

Why bother? Dawn is largely a figurehead at best. The Rapey Raiders pretty much have the run of the place, while Dawn rationalizes their actions to everybody else and deals with all the administrative scut.

Exactly. That's what Joan meant when she kept telling Dawn that she can't control "them"--she was referring to the other "cops" and the fact that they pretty much do whatever they want when Dawn isn't in the room.

 

I have mixed feelings about this episode. I can't be too fussed to care about Beth, but I did like the scenario and thought it was well done. If it had been a character I cared about, it would've been very tense. Now that Carol is in the mix, I'm much more interested to see where it goes.

[Trek]

I just feel like not everyone had to be a 'badass' and it doesn't make sense that Beth is suddenly one. With Carol there was a progression...Beth is the one who always said 'everyone has a job'. Her job may not be 'killing machine' and I would be more than ok with that.

 

ITA.  I think the show loses something by gradually turning everyone into a badass. On a philosophical level, I agree with Dale’s “It can not only be about survival of the fittest.” The key difference between Rick and Shane was that the former had retained some of his “To Serve and to Protect” (those that are less able to fight for themselves) instincts from their cop days while Shane had shed it all. (Protecting his own family doesn’t count, the one thing Shane wanted to protect was also Rick’s family, heh.)  If the evolution of CDB is such that it gradually becomes a place for only badass killers, it makes it a worse place than Woodbury which had room for a ton of non-combatants, young and old, and Shane might as well have stayed as leader all along.

 

On a viewer’s level, we also get a different show.  From an assortment of ordinary people of different skill sets trying to survive, we get the adventures of Seal Team Six in the ZA. The latter is a lot less compelling to me.

 

Footnote: As a former certified marksman, I can assure that what Carol did, a headshot from about 50 yards with a rifle while stationary in a door jamb before switching to auto to give the guy on the roof a controlled accurate burst is achievable with some training and practice. Getting perfect headshots with every single round from a pistol (with what must have been a seriously oversized magazine), half of them in pitch darkness – while you yourself are on the move is completely OTT. (Great play is often made about the difference between hitting a moving target vs a stationary one. However, the shooter’s own movement is actually, by several multiples, more detrimental to accuracy than the target’s movement or lack thereof.)

[panthergirl13]

Interesting to see the split reactions to this episode. I find TWD to be overrated and boring most weeks, so I kind of liked this one. I hate Rick and "Coral" and most of the other bunch (with the exception of Michonne, the only character I'd be seriously bummed to see go). So while I'm not a big Beth fan, it was a nice break to have other people in the mix. The zombies are also getting boring so more storylines that revolve around the living are welcomed by me. Otherwise it's just blah-blah-set piece-blah-blah.

 

Frankly, I find the opening music exciting and compelling but the show never really lives up to it.

[CloverTracey]

Well I'd just like to express something I have not seen addressed yet, and that is.....WHY

OHH WHY are there sooooo many namby pamby "yes men" in the bad guy camps??? Does the ZA breed only bad asses and wanna be types? Just answered my question. Everybody else gets eaten. Anyway I was put off by how many cops there were in this episode whispering top secret info into the ever ready ears of top gun Dawn. Go grow some, guys. Working together, you have a good shot at taking Dawn down.

[Ouisch]

Scott Gimple said that the writer's just had it that some guy was living there and went out for a supply run and it went sideways and he never came back. We all read a lot of possibilities into it, but it was just random.

 

 

He also mentioned that the funeral director was a heart patient, that at some point if you looked carefully (or maybe that scene got cut) you could see bottles of his heart meds in the funeral home. He kind of left it open-ended, as if perhaps Funeral Director had a heart attack while on a run. However, since the Creepy Rape Cops were trolling around that area (that's where they found Beth, after all), I'm wondering if that first cardiac patient we saw at the beginning of the ep - the one where Dr. Steve pulled the plug because he wasn't responding - was supposed to be the missing Funeral Director?

[kikismom]

Dawn on the elliptical barking out orders to Noah about having clean uniforms, I don't know why but it made me lol!

Because we saw that same scene--with different actors---about 80 times on Scrubs?

[PunkyMouse]

Okay, I finally finished watching the episode. Alright, I'll be completely honest: I fell asleep again and had to rewind, but I finished! What a steaming pile of poo! 

 

Through the whole thing I kept wondering if perhaps Campbell's had had a little mishap down at the processing plant and some 'shrooms got mixed into my cream of mushroom soup because this episode felt like one big non-sensical hallucination. Characters pop in and out. Storylines meander around aimlessly. Simple scenes take F-O-R-E-V-E-R. Did David Lynch write and direct this episode? And I don't mean Twin Peaks David Lynch, I mean Eraserhead David Lynch.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but last time we saw Beth she was playing the piano at the funeral home, right? So when did she break her wrist? Or did the goon squad break it for her?  And is Beth a lefty? 'Cause I'm a decent shot with my right hand, but if my wrist were in a cast and I had to shoot left-handed all bets are off. 

 

I really felt like a LOT more script was shot for this and the intention was for the storyline to go on longer than it will. I'm wondering if they just realized that EK isn't a strong enough actress and Beth is not a compelling enough character and edited it all down to conclude it in 2 episodes rather than play out much longer over the season. Because that is the only reason I can think of for the hodge-podge nature of this episode.

 

ETA:

 

 

Did Beth not notice the cars with the crosses in the back window out in the parking lot? Has she not figured it out yet? I thought she would call Dawn on that.

 

It really bothered me that Beth didn't try to take one of those cars. She just ran right past them! She couldn't at least LOOK and see if someone had left the keys in one? As soon as we saw those cars, I told my husband - "Watch, she snagged one of those and that's who Daryl and Carol saw driving around". But, nope.

 

 

 

YES!!! I was thinking "Hey, dumbass! Look at all those cars right freaking next to you!!!

Edited November 3, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[Boofish]

 

Working together, you have a good shot at taking Dawn down.

You don't even need that many people. One or two could do the trick. I hope they explain this hold she has over an entire hospital that includes people with guns and a doctor who knows how to use drugs to kill. Reminds me of every season of Big Brother (which is why I stopped watching) All the houseguest allow 2 to 4 people to have all the power and no one on the outside ever says "hey, let's all get together and destroy the dominant alliance" Nope, they are just always floating and hoping to be the ever coveted "swing vote." I remember as a child once asking my mother (but in more child friendly terms) "why don't Bluto just eat some spinach and beat the living s*%^& out of Popeye"

 

[Nashville]

Footnote: As a former certified marksman, I can assure that what Carol did, a headshot from about 50 yards with a rifle while stationary in a door jamb before switching to auto to give the guy on the roof a controlled accurate burst is achievable with some training and practice. Getting perfect headshots with every single round from a pistol (with what must have been a seriously oversized magazine), half of them in pitch darkness – while you yourself are on the move is completely OTT. (Great play is often made about the difference between hitting a moving target vs a stationary one. However, the shooter’s own movement is actually, by several multiples, more detrimental to accuracy than the target’s movement or lack thereof.)

Regarding the shooting in the basement - ITA. I was looking around for a dwarf walker exclaiming "ZE BRAIN, ZE BRAIN!!!" because this was purely a zombie-style Fantasy Island shoot-fest. Great cinematography, crappy reality.

Regarding the shootings in the outside yard - To be fair, about half the "head shots" were Beth sticking the gun under their chin and pulling the trigger. Judith could've hit them at that range.

Wait a minute; that's unfair and demeaning to Judith. Let me try again...

LORI could've hit them at that range.

[LexiconDevilOne]

 

 

There are gas-powered generators.  If they have gas for cars, no reason why they couldn't get it for a generator. 

 

 

There is no way that ANYONE would have gas. It goes bad, unless you add an additive to preserve it longer. It's one of the biggest plot holes in this entire series. One of the more annoying ones. At least for me.

 

It's always annoyed me in this type genre (post apocalyptic genre), that more characters don't utilize bikes. You have different types, none are that hard to find, especially since every town, city or what have you, has bike shops, or a Walmart/Target. You can even put bike racks with the big metal saddles (mine and my son's have them) and/or trailers on them for your stuff. It's not like you have to ride them on the side walks, either. As long as you have gears, you can ride on all kinds of surfaces.

 

Although, I can't picture Daryl Dixon riding an adult tricycle, since he admitted on one of the shows he doesn't know how to ride a bike, because he never owned one. Funny, he rode a motorcycle....but, a bike's a bit different.

 

Anyway, back to boring Beth...I still haven't forgiven her for making Daryl boring. Now if she puts herself in front of a bullet or a walker, taking one for the team, and dies...maybe then I MIGHT forgive her. Until then, snooze, zzzzz!

 

Oh good lord, whole and hole, not the same word...

Edited November 4, 2014 by LexiconDevilOne

[CloverTracey]

Agree - the entire set-up confused me. I spent too much time trying to figuring out Dawn's game plan. She has the cops (how many minions does she have) take the cross-bearing cars and drive around the countryside (as far as 30-40 miles away) looking for frail women. Then, they bring these women back to the hospital, stitch up their wounds, feed them guinea pig meat and let the male cops rape them. We see one male captive who irons and mops floors. They have water and power and food...somehow. All because Dawn thinks that they will be saved.

 

When the cars are driving around the Atlanta countryside, no one noticed that it is complete devastation everywhere. How many "patients" are in the hospital? How many cops? Who is doing the supply runs and where do they go? Where did the guinea pigs come from? What happens if the doctor dies?

 

I know that Dawn is just another wacko but her plan doesn't appear to be logically sustainable. We saw about seven characters. It seemed like a very small operation...nothing that would outlast a ZA. There was no "community" vibe about it like we see with Woodbury and Terminus. 

 

The story wasn't well-fleshed out. I spent more time trying to second guess what was going on rather than being concerned about Beth. Maybe we will get more details next week. Or maybe Carol will just kill all of them and end this stupid storyline.

[RedheadZombie]

When Noah was talking about his uncle, did anyone else think he was talking about Morgan? That thought crossed my mind.

 

Maybe if the show were set in Vermont, where if you see two black people in a fifty mile radius, they're probably related.  It's possible Noah was "blind casted", and his race has nothing to do with his storyline.  (ETA:  no snark meant to the OP)

 

I'm sure it's because I'm a nurse that I noticed, but a hospital with no nurses?  A real nurse would have known how to give a shot, and would have known the doctor was ordering an inappropriate med.  I'm not surprised, most TV shows set in hospitals have invisible nurses, while doctors change dressings, distribute meds, empty bedpans, and walk patients up and down the halls. 

 

When Beth was frantically searching under the mattress, I got all excited.  Ooh, Beth hid a gun, knife, hammer, map with escape route, walkie talkie, giant syringe filled with a deadly drug ......  Then I remembered, this is Beth - it was a lollipop.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RedheadZombie

[kikismom]

I basically threw up when Noah said he was from Richmond Virginia. You know, near Washington DC?

near Alexandria?

Too many convenient connections on this show lately.

I guess Merle was right when he said this ole world gets a little smaller toward the end

Edited November 3, 2014 by kikismom

[LexiconDevilOne]

I'm sure it's because I'm a nurse that I noticed, but a hospital with no nurses?  A real nurse would have known how to give a shot, and would have known the doctor was ordering an inappropriate med.  I'm not surprised, most TV shows set in hospitals have invisible nurses, while doctors change dressings, distribute meds, empty bedpans, and walk patients up and down the halls. 

 

 

A real nurse, (I'm one too) would also have been looking at her patients chart (because a real doctor would insist on having this), and made sure her meds matched doctors orders, as well as the correct dosage, and route.

[JBody]

This episode has made me do something I thought I'd never do: I'm now looking forward to the short bus road trip to DC with Sgt. Moobs, Dr. Mullet, Short Shorts and Maglenn. Saints preserve us. First time in recorded history we did not do an instant rewatch. DH's only response: "That wasn't very exciting." I think he became rather out of sorts when at the half hour mark he realized we weren't gettin' nothin' but Bethy Lou improbably metamorphosing into a "badass". Sigh. I went into this with an open mind but I just don't know. I liked the setting, the Dr. (another chickenshit like Father Pee Pants), Noah, Joan, and Dawn, whose barely suppressed terror was palpable, but overall WTF are these people doing?!? If they're not going gruesome experiments or acting as a breeding centre or something then have them be a semi-decent bunch for a change (as Ghoulina and others have mentioned) instead of yet another group of yahoos with a psycho leader.

[Milaxx]

The split-up doesn't bother me, because the last time they kept the group together, they didn't write for half or 2/3 of them (season 3), and I thought the reasons for the splits made sense (Daryl was in a rush and Carol went with him, Abraham was going no matter what and Glenn and Maggie were trying to keep the peace/not sure about Rick), but I agree with you that they can't keep doing this over and over.

The split up doesn't bother me either. I enjoyed it last season. It was a good way to develop some of the more background characters. For me the problem honestly is EK. I didn't find her character development last season interesting and since the show hasn't made us care about Beth through it's actions (Like having Maggie mention/worry about her, having Darryl mention her more than once). Therefore, as a viewer I don't care about her. Even with her episodes with Darryl last season, I don't care about her. Couple that with the fact that try as she might, EK has not made Beth a compelling character and the fact that the hospital scenario feels a bit like Woodbury 2.0, and you get a big old shrug from me. If they had never found Beth again, I wouldn't have missed her one bit.

 

Semi-minor nitpick for me. When Beth was grinding up that tablet with the mortar and pestle, mixing it with water and injecting it - would that even really kill the doctor-patient? It was such a small dose. I mean, first of all, the Clozapine or whatever it was, was in pill format, which means it is most effective when absorbed by the stomach. Second, each pill contains a precise dose. Beth semi-ground up the pill, barely mixed it with water and injected a very small amount of it.

 

There is no way that amount of drug would kill him - he had the equivilent of small piece of the end of the pill injected into him. Nowhere near the strength of the pill itself. I can only think that that particular drug cannot be injected into a body, even in tiny amounts, or that Beth actually introduced an air bubble into the syringe.

 

For some reason, I was under the impression that the drug that Beth injected, interacted with what the patient was already on, which is what killed him. Anyway, just my nitpick.

I didn't mind that scene. I think the show's downfall was showing the mortar & pestle with the not quite ground up contents. I'm too lazy to google the properties of the 2 drugs, but the difference is that when pills are swallowed they are slowly absorbed by the stomach and then enter the blood stream. Beth (supposedly) ground up a few pills with water and then injected it directly into the bloodstream. So theoretically, the right pills going through fewer filters directly to the bloodstream will it would be absorbed much faster could be fatal.

I would like Beth better if they would just let her stay in her lane. You can't break bad when you look like Elsa and sound like Paris Hilton

She would be better off going the honey trap route. It would be more believable and perfectly in her wheelhouse.

 

A real nurse, (I'm one too) would also have been looking at her patients chart (because a real doctor would insist on having this), and made sure her meds matched doctors orders, as well as the correct dosage, and route.

I wonder if the nurses were among those deemed too strong to live? If deadly Doctor killed off the other doctor because he presented a threat to him, what would he do with a competent nurse? 

[Jordan27]

.

If this a clever attempt at humor it fell as flat as this episode.

You really are humor challenged.

[Jordan27]

I think this episode should have been called "Everyone Hates Beth and Chris."  This thread should be called "Everyone Hates Beth".

 

Some of you, okay most of you are really picky.  This is the Walking Dead and I don't care who is on the screen, it's still better than 99% of what is on TV.

 

Beth isn't my favorite, but the ep was fine.  More bad guys, walkers, view of Atlanta and Beth doing her best. 

 

And why do you so many of you dislike her singing?  She sings fine.  Certainly could have made it to Hollywood.

[VLove]

I have nothing thoughtful or insightful to say - but when I saw Carol being wheeled in, I immediately thought of a Nicki Minaj lyric... she says, "Now which b*tch want it, cause that b*tch get it." Carol is gonna wreak so much havoc and I, for one, am here for it.

[kikismom]

I just rewatched Seed (s03e01) to cleanse this ep from my brain, and they use whistling to alert others that things are ok (or not). That's been pretty consistent I think. They have used that this season as well.

 

I love the bit where Rick uses a different whistle at the church to gather the others...and then later, at night, Sasha hears that distinctive two-note whistle from outside...before Bob's maimed body is left by the entrance. It just underscores how long Gareth and his finks were spying on our group.

[Trek]

It really bothered me that Beth didn't try to take one of those cars. She just ran right past them!

What struck me about that was, yep, of course they would park the Kidnapbulances in a completely unsecured lot with broken and torn fences overrun by walkers.  Why not have to clear the lot again and again every time you want to go out and it’s even more fun when you return to fight walkers while you and your partner are carrying an unconscious kidnap victim between you.  Just another one of the hospital’s set-up that don’t make sense. (e.g. Hyperactive animals like guinea pigs would consume well over 10 times the amount of calories to rear for every calorie it provides in meat).

[Timetoread]

I don't like damsel in distresses either and I love it when a female is able to be her own hero.

 

I don't necessarily need her to be a bona fide hero but I need to see some urgency, desperation, determination to simply SURVIVE it.  I wanted to SEE on her face that she understood fully the deal there and was actively thinking, not only how she was going to get out but how she was going to get out of Atlanta. Beth apparently learned how to play dead, a la A Christmas Story, and like Randy, it's the best defense she's got.

I don't think we were supposed to see her as doe-eyed, but rather pretty clever, tough, and resourceful.  Cute young blonds can be those things.

 

Absolutely!  After 7 seasons of Buffy, 5 seasons of Starbuck and 7 seasons of Gabrielle (XTWP) - I don't just want to see it, I EXPECT to see it.  But for the record I didn't witness clever, tough OR resourceful.  One of the three would have sufficed.

 

She wasn't in a situation where charisma was the goal, she was in a situation where fading into the woodwork was.

 

Let me just tell you how much it is pissing me off that to address this point, I'm going to have to think of the mechanics of this horribly told storyline.  How could she possibly fade into the woodwork when she basically walked from room to room and had each and every character vomit exposition all over her.  Dawn told her about the past, present and future.  Joan told her of her misery.  Officer Rapey made her feel like there was simply no other woman he wished to rape more than her.  The doctor fed her, worked with her, saved her, used her as part of his evil plan.  Noah, undercover for over a year, divulges his brilliant escape plan to the new girl.  It was like a Perry Mason trial with all the confessing.  No fading into the woodwork when you are everything to everybody.

 

If the evolution of CDB is such that it gradually becomes a place for only badass killers, it makes it a worse place than Woodbury which had room for a ton of non-combatants, young and old, and Shane might as well have stayed as leader all along.

 

I don't see it as an evolution of badass killers but I do see it as the evolution of soldiers fighting a war.  Not all of them are badasses but all of them have to fight to stay alive.  They all suffer traumas that change them forever.  And even when they hate each other, they are bonded in ways that stick with them forever.  Weak links aren't just pathos, they are dangerous.  If Beth is nothing without the group acting like her bodyguards then she is a liability.  Rick, who is carrying around a toddler, wouldn't throw her out for that, but that doesn't mean that I as a viewer accept that.  I don't.

 

I basically threw up when Noah said he was from Richmond Virginia. You know, near Washington DC?

 

Richmond isn't actually "near" DC.  It's about two hours in a car and on foot, might as well be Timbuktu.

[RedheadZombie]

Ugh, what an awful episode.  I really can't stand these, "Meanwhile, back at the ranch...", types of episodes.  I was hoping that they would stick with the gang getting back together for awhile.  It is bad enough that they split them up shortly after they did get back together.  Now an all about Beth episode.

 

Beth as a character is fine, but there really is no reason to devote an entire episode to her. 

 

I think they need to be very careful when they're doing character-centric episodes.  I like the quieter episodes, but they tend to kill the momentum of the season. For instance, the governor-centric episodes happened after the Karvid reveal.  The show may think it's building suspense, but it seems to make people angry instead.  It also created the sense that Daryl didn't care about Carol being banned. I also think it helps when the episode has a beginning, middle, end.  For example, fallout has continued from The Grove, but that episode was definitely stand alone.  Both the Beth and Governor eps were incomplete after one episode, irritating the people who assumed we would find out how people reacted to Carol's banishment, and "who's in the bushes?".

 

And now (and looking at the Abraham story next week), they're split up and in jeopardy.  Rick will split the group, leaving some at the church with Judith, to go save Beth and Carol, and then the Church will get attacked while they're gone.

 

I can handle the group being separated.  The problem is, there has to be compelling characters in each group.  I think one of the mistakes with Woodbury, was choosing a character that was highly disliked to be the connection between the governor and Rick's gang.   I love Maggie and Glenn, and I like Tara and Abraham, but I know many don't.

 

Semi-minor nitpick for me. When Beth was grinding up that tablet with the mortar and pestle, mixing it with water and injecting it - would that even really kill the doctor-patient? It was such a small dose. I mean, first of all, the Clozapine or whatever it was, was in pill format, which means it is most effective when absorbed by the stomach. Second, each pill contains a precise dose. Beth semi-ground up the pill, barely mixed it with water and injected a very small amount of it.

 

There is no way that amount of drug would kill him - he had the equivilent of small piece of the end of the pill injected into him. Nowhere near the strength of the pill itself. I can only think that that particular drug cannot be injected into a body, even in tiny amounts, or that Beth actually introduced an air bubble into the syringe.

 

For some reason, I was under the impression that the drug that Beth injected, interacted with what the patient was already on, which is what killed him. Anyway, just my nitpick.

 

The administration of the med had many problems.  First, Beth did not inject into the vein, although they wanted us to think that.  Meds injected intravenously or potent, and have quick onset.  The med wasn't fully melted, Beth only drew up a small portion, there was no filter, and she used water (instead of the proper saline).  After watching improper oxygen cannula use for years, I've learned that a hospital scene will always be wrong.

[PunkyMouse]

Richmond isn't actually "near" DC. It's about two hours in a car and on foot, might as well be Timbuktu.

But with the route they're taking it's on the way.

Some of you, okay most of you are really picky. This is the Walking Dead and I don't care who is on the screen, it's still better than 99% of what is on TV.

And when the show is good we say so. I personally thought episode 5x01 was amazing! Of course even the best episodes have little nit-picky things that bother some of us, and we chat about these things, too.