S09.E13: Jill's Wedding

[truthtalk2014]

Great find! Notice how there's no serving tongs on any of the trays and that a child is sticking his hand into the mint dish. That's sanitary! 

Oh wow- of all the nastiness this reception brought to mind, I had not even noticed the hand picking up the candy and the lack of serving tongs.  YUCK!  JUST YUCK.  I can't even imagine how many children fondled those items.  

 

  But popcorn, pickles, cupcakes and Rice Krispy treats - that's just odd. It's like a 6 year old went the fridge and took out his favorite things to eat and tried to call it dinner. 

 

 

I'm surprised they didn't serve red plastic cups with oatmeal and a splash of hot water from the kitchen sink. 

[Temperance]

So now I'm wondering - why such a split in traditions?  Does anyone have any ideas? It'd be interesting to find out. Was the South just poorer in general overall for so long? An agricultural economy that didn't yield an adequate enough income for entertaining? If these "light" receptions are the norm for the South [which was news to me, I'd never heard of before] it certainly rubs against the very iconic tradition of Southern hospitality. The Wilkes barbecue in "Gone With The Wind" has always been the epitome of what I thought Southern hospitality was.  Over-the-top entertaining of guests and visitors at every opportunity.

I'm a northern with southern roots. My family (who also never had any slaves) never had the kind of money the Wilkes and the Gone with the Wind plantations owners had. That to me isn't "Southern" (although I don't know) that's rich people's way of entertaining. My family was lucky to have the clothes on our backs and the food on our table and any amount of money saved we could. (I know this from family stories and genealogical research.) Some people in the south were rich and knew how to party (still do). They have the wonderful hospitality people have heard of.  My family came from the same Appalachian roots that the Duggars did and we could also be frugal. 

 

The two big differences between us and The Duggars are

1) If we were trying to save money, we wouldn't have invited so many people. I know what GEML has said, but the biblical size multitude still seems a bit much especially if budget conscience.  (Even more so, with the 500 extra people.)

 

2)When we have more money, we tend to put it towards the wedding. In my opinion, the Duggars are wealthy to an extent and that  they could have spent more on the hospitality side and didn't. 

 

Remember the Duggars old JOY model. (Jesus_others_yourself)? At Jill's wedding, the hierarchy seemed Jesus, Ourselves, and other people, since catering to their guests seemed the least of their concerns.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Temperance

[Betweenyouandme]

About four years ago, my husband and I went to the wedding of one of his co-workers. When it was announced that it would be a cash bar, most of the guests (including my husband) went to the bathroom and took some money out of the gift envelope. If I were invited to Jill’s wedding and was given a cupcake or rice krispy treat, along with a warm root beer float in a plastic up, I would take back my gift.

Nah, just give her one of those Dr. Peppers instead :)

[GEML]

I will take a stab as to why the South might be a little different -- I think it might stem from the fact that the south, contrary to what people might think, was actually the last area of the country to be religious.  You have to think about this in historical terms -- you have New England, which was founded by very religious people, and the first thing built before anything else was a church.  (Think of New England towns with churches on the "green.")  Then you had mid-atlantic states which were founded by people who were more about religious freedom (states like Pennsylvania and Maryland  -- which always attracted people who were still religious, but not WASP religious, they were Quaker, and Catholic and Amish etc.  All of those traditions DO have sit down dinners with their weddings.

Then you come to the south.  The tidewater south had some religion -- you have Episcopal and Presbyterian churches on the coasts, and these areas do have that famous Southern hospitality that you see in places like GONE WITH THE WIND.  But if you read the book, you'll find out the places like the Wilkes were Tidewater hospitality in places like "frontier" Atlanta, which made them so special.  Keep in mind that Georgia itself was founded as a convict state, and the Carolinas and most of the Appalachian states were places for people to get AWAY from the snobs and hoity toity tidewater people.

And that included religion.

So you have all these unchurched people.  Many of whom, frankly, can't even read and write.  Many of whom are breaking the English law following the French and Indian War by moving West of the Appalachian mountains and claiming land that the English were happy to give up to keep peace in the Proclamation of 1763.  Right now, the people who do NOT care about religion are what we now think of as the "Bible Belt."

That all starts to change around the time of the Civil War.  There are these great revivals occurring across the South and the upper frontier of New York.  The number of religions that comes out of the upstate New York are so numerous that it's called the "burned out district."  These are the people who move West as the railroads move, and they take their religious culture with them.  

But across the south, they continue to be less educated and a little wild.  Their religious traditions are wild.  Their revivials are CRAZY.  They last for weeks, with people acting like whirling dervishes.  The Methodists and Baptists can move in, but the Episcopal and Presbyterians are too slow.  Truth is, lots of people are practicing what we would call a Scot-Irish "hand-fast" or "common law marriage" today.  They recognize themselves as married, their community recognizes them as married, but they are waiting, sometimes months for a circuit riding minister to come around to actually marry them.  Thus, wedding services in the South are not as big of a deal as they are in the North East, the Upper Midwest, or the Tidewater South.  Why?  Because by the time you actually have them, you've been "married" for months, and probably have a baby on the way.

Culturally, this probably translates into why wedding traditions evolved the way they do.  It's not an absolute thesis or anything, just some educated guess work from someone who studies cultural migration patterns and happens to be a direct descendent of a couple of Methodist circuit riding ministers and read some of their journals!  :)

[riverblue22]

I noticed that they said the 3,000 cookies were made in the Duggar kitchen.  They didn't say the Duggars made them.  I imagine they pawned that job off to "volunteers" who were allowed to use their industrial kitchen.  After all, Jana was locked in the attic making countless dresses and ties, Jessa was courting, Jill was busy trying on her dress and texting her fiance, and Joy was crying a lot.

[Betweenyouandme]

I'm a northern with southern roots. My family (who also never had any slaves) never had the kind of money the Wilkes and the Gone with the Wind plantations owners had. That to me isn't "Southern" (although I don't know) that's rich people's way of entertaining. My family was lucky to have the clothes on our backs and the food on our table and any amount of money saved we could. (I know this from family stories and genealogical research.) Some people in the south were rich and knew how to party (still do). They have the wonderful hospitality people have heard of. My family came from the same Appalachian roots that the Duggars did and we could also be frugal.

The two big differences between us and The Duggars are

1) If we were trying to save money, we wouldn't have invited so many people. I know what GEML has said, but the biblical size multitude still seems a bit much especially if budget conscience. (Even more so, with the 500 extra people.)

2)When we have more money, we tend to put it towards the wedding. In my opinion, the Duggars are wealthy to an extent and that they could have spent more on the hospitality side and didn't.

Remember the Duggars old JOY model. (Jesus_others_yourself)? At Jill's wedding, the hierarchy seemed Jesus, Ourselves, and other people, since catering to their guests seemed the least of their concerns.

OR, they could have just had a wedding after a church service, asking for no gifts and making it clear there's no reception. A couple did that at a church I went to for a while.

" They last for weeks, with people acting like whirling dervishes."

Hmm, this sounds like fun but only if I could drink.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Betweenyouandme

[xls]

  If you were so foolish as to think you should be included in that 500, and you bought them a set of towels and guzzled down a half melted root beer float so you could say you were there? Well, that says as much about a "guest" as it does the Duggars.

  

And a sample-sized root beer float at that!

Edited October 30, 2014 by xls

[joanofarch4]

Do people attend weddings for a free meal?  I'm sure the "close circle" (of 300 or so) enjoyed their bar-b-q dinner the night before.  The wedding attendees were probably just grateful for bragging rights to a celebrity event or perhaps hoping to appear briefly on the show...

[Lola43]

Wow, hopefully there weren't too many hungry diabetics there. I'd have only been able to eat the pickles.

[floridamom]

But where was Jessa during her homefooling math lesson? How can an adult woman say that the number l,000 (meaning guests, ie people), doesn't sound like a lot? But when you SEE that amount of people, "well, it's a lot of people". That just didn't make sense. Does she have no sense of anything? No judgment? How can she think that? Anyone else catch that stupid statement?

[glow]

But where was Jessa during her homefooling math lesson? How can an adult woman say that the number l,000 (meaning guests, ie people), doesn't sound like a lot? But when you SEE that amount of people, "well, it's a lot of people". That just didn't make sense. Does she have no sense of anything? No judgment? How can she think that? Anyone else catch that stupid statement?

 

Was it Jinger who said that?

Edited October 30, 2014 by glow

[BitterApple]

I don't think there's a right, wrong, better or worse way to do a reception, but I do think Jill would have been better off cutting the amount of desserts in half and serving other appetizer items instead. For example, I could eat a small plate of cheese, crackers and veggie sticks and top it off with a small piece of cake, but I couldn't eat a big slab of cake, cookies, mints, rice krispie treats and a root beer float. I think she needed better balance.

 

Also, was Jill's wedding cake for family only? I noticed she was cutting it in front of all the guests and wondered how they managed to direct guests towards the sheet cakes instead of lining up for a piece of the wedding cake? Or maybe it's already understood that the wedding cake isn't for everyone?

[Darknight]

Great find! Notice how there's no serving tongs on any of the trays and that a child is sticking his hand into the mint dish. That's sanitary!

Regarding the little kids, I hope to God someone packed a cooler with sandwiches, juice and snacks so they could have some nourishment before they overdosed on sugar at the reception. Given that none of them had a complete meltdown during the ceremony, I'm assuming they were fed earlier in the day.

These people are so unsanitary

[floridamom]

I cannot fathom for the life of me that Jill actually had her "reception" in the church parking lot! What on earth possessed her and her so called professional wedding planner to think that was ok? All that sugary food was siting outside on tables under the hot June sun for 90 minutes? Nothing was covered that I saw, so it was fodder for all the flies, mosquitos and bees that were buzzing by, wasn't it?  No tables to put your "snack" down, no chairs to sit on, and socialize semi-comfortably? I wouldn't call this a reception, I don't have a word for it other than the annual church carnival, even then, the food is in a booth and is covered. Tacky, tasteless and CHEAP of them. It also was disrespectful for the Duggars to have a separate "real reception" for the 300 friends at their house after the fact. What does that tell the l,000 people who were at the church? "Oh, we'll have the real guests at our house after you leave".  One simply doesn't invite 1500 people to a wedding unless it's being held in a sports arena, and even then, it's indoors. From what I understand, Jill didn't require RSVPs! Can you imagine that? She really was like a 14 year old planning a "really neat birthday party" all on her own.

[Lizziedrew]

Of all of the things I can let slide....there are 2 I can't.

 

One, JB making sure there was a chaperone on the wedding day while the couple prayed together and called his very, very ill mother. Days later I am still dumbfounded by that. That one tops saying Hola! in Nepal, it tops MeChelle's thumbprint between the lovebirds (I know she didn't actually do it)....it was beyond. Just beyond.

 

The other thing is Cathy looked lovely and I can't for a minute criticize what she wore. She looked totally appropriate, especially given that dress shopping has probably not been anywhere near her priorities (nor should it have been.) Navy actually looked very nice on her, and peach or mint or anything like that would have washed her out and made her look more ill. 

[NausetGirl]

I will take a stab as to why the South might be a little different -- I think it might stem from the fact that the south, contrary to what people might think, was actually the last area of the country to be religious.  You have to think about this in historical terms -- you have New England, which was founded by very religious people, and the first thing built before anything else was a church.  (Think of New England towns with churches on the "green.")  Then you had mid-atlantic states which were founded by people who were more about religious freedom (states like Pennsylvania and Maryland  -- which always attracted people who were still religious, but not WASP religious, they were Quaker, and Catholic and Amish etc.  All of those traditions DO have sit down dinners with their weddings.

Then you come to the south.  The tidewater south had some religion -- you have Episcopal and Presbyterian churches on the coasts, and these areas do have that famous Southern hospitality that you see in places like GONE WITH THE WIND.  But if you read the book, you'll find out the places like the Wilkes were Tidewater hospitality in places like "frontier" Atlanta, which made them so special.  Keep in mind that Georgia itself was founded as a convict state, and the Carolinas and most of the Appalachian states were places for people to get AWAY from the snobs and hoity toity tidewater people.

And that included religion.

So you have all these unchurched people.  Many of whom, frankly, can't even read and write.  Many of whom are breaking the English law following the French and Indian War by moving West of the Appalachian mountains and claiming land that the English were happy to give up to keep peace in the Proclamation of 1763.  Right now, the people who do NOT care about religion are what we now think of as the "Bible Belt."

That all starts to change around the time of the Civil War.  There are these great revivals occurring across the South and the upper frontier of New York.  The number of religions that comes out of the upstate New York are so numerous that it's called the "burned out district."  These are the people who move West as the railroads move, and they take their religious culture with them.  

But across the south, they continue to be less educated and a little wild.  Their religious traditions are wild.  Their revivials are CRAZY.  They last for weeks, with people acting like whirling dervishes.  The Methodists and Baptists can move in, but the Episcopal and Presbyterians are too slow.  Truth is, lots of people are practicing what we would call a Scot-Irish "hand-fast" or "common law marriage" today.  They recognize themselves as married, their community recognizes them as married, but they are waiting, sometimes months for a circuit riding minister to come around to actually marry them.  Thus, wedding services in the South are not as big of a deal as they are in the North East, the Upper Midwest, or the Tidewater South.  Why?  Because by the time you actually have them, you've been "married" for months, and probably have a baby on the way.

Culturally, this probably translates into why wedding traditions evolved the way they do.  It's not an absolute thesis or anything, just some educated guess work from someone who studies cultural migration patterns and happens to be a direct descendent of a couple of Methodist circuit riding ministers and read some of their journals!  :)

 

Thanks, GEML, for putting so much into this.  It certainly could account for the differences we see in weddings from region to region. Personally I don't have a problem with anyone having a simple wedding - ever. I think most of these over-the-top weddings in the US today - I call them technicolor Normandy invasions - are ridiculous, wasteful and self-centered. But I do have a problem doing things as the Duggars did them for Jill's wedding. These are people with plenty of $$ to do whatever they wanted to do, yet they still essentially ask [or worse, expect] donated or discounted goods and volunteer help with just about everything. That's the kind of thing people willingly do for charities. But the Duggars are not a charity, despite what Boob thinks. Sometimes I think he spends most of his time trying to stretch the Gothard-approved "live debt-free" motto into "let's see just how much I can bilk out of others for our benefit..."  I don't think Boob or Mechelle think about others much at all - unless they're thinking of how people can be useful to them.  I mean, the idiot expected the carpetlayer to train his kids - for FREE - so that the next time they needed carpet, they could do it themselves and bypass giving that guy their business again. What a colossal moron!!  Every time Boob gives that big horse-tooth smile of his at the end of a TH, I get the impression he's thinking, as the saying goes,"I'm laughing all the way to the bank..."

[BradandJanet]

I cannot fathom for the life of me that Jill actually had her "reception" in the church parking lot! What on earth possessed her and her so called professional wedding planner to think that was ok? All that sugary food was siting outside on tables under the hot June sun for 90 minutes? Nothing was covered that I saw, so it was fodder for all the flies, mosquitos and bees that were buzzing by, wasn't it?  No tables to put your "snack" down, no chairs to sit on, and socialize semi-comfortably? I wouldn't call this a reception, I don't have a word for it other than the annual church carnival, even then, the food is in a booth and is covered. Tacky, tasteless and CHEAP of them. It also was disrespectful for the Duggars to have a separate "real reception" for the 300 friends at their house after the fact. What does that tell the l,000 people who were at the church? "Oh, we'll have the real guests at our house after you leave".  One simply doesn't invite 1500 people to a wedding unless it's being held in a sports arena, and even then, it's indoors. From what I understand, Jill didn't require RSVPs! Can you imagine that? She really was like a 14 year old planning a "really neat birthday party" all on her own.

Ugh. I didn't even think about food sitting out in the sun. However, maybe the hungry guests grabbed whatever came out as quickly as they could.

 

I hated the lack of seating. There were certainly pregnant women, tired children, elderly people, and people with physical ailments. Did most of them have to stand in the parking lot? I guess that's one way to keep a party short. 

[trimthatfat]

But where was Jessa during her homefooling math lesson? How can an adult woman say that the number l,000 (meaning guests, ie people), doesn't sound like a lot? But when you SEE that amount of people, "well, it's a lot of people". That just didn't make sense. Does she have no sense of anything? No judgment? How can she think that? Anyone else catch that stupid statement?

 

Jinger said it, not Jessa. I mentioned it a few pages back because I couldn't believe she said that.

[KitKat]

Ok, I've now had a chance to see the episode and I'm going to go on the record and say (gasp!) that no one here looked nice, and this is what comes of trying to put together a wedding on such short notice.

Jill's dress needed to be fitted better. The men's suits were of such low quality that they practically shone like mirrors. Michelle's dress WAS a mirror. The bridesmaids dresses looked like they had all been slept in. And even Cathy's dress was inappropriate for a June wedding and it's dark color only made her look all the more like she was dressing for a less than festive event, shall we say. (Perhaps she was, in her mind....)

That was a boring, impersonal service, made for television. It also was filled with guests who were invited to prove they could fill the church. You could tell by the way Jill greeted the guests. Given that we know the number of "real guests" back at the house being about 300 (again, going from estimates from Josiah's party) that means there were probably 250-400 people on the original list that the Duggars wanted to include and another 500 or so that they had to deal with. If you were so foolish as to think you should be included in that 500, and you bought them a set of towels and guzzled down a half melted root beer float so you could say you were there? Well, that says as much about a "guest" as it does the Duggars.

I still don't know if the cake was supposed to look like that or not, but in my house that's called "iced cornbread cake."

If iced cornbread cake is anything like this, count me in http://whiskeybacon.com/2013/03/26/maple-iced-bacon-corn-bread-cake-recipe/

[Shugardrawers]

A handful of points now that I've read the whole thread:

 

Our wedding in 2001 had a simple cake, punch, cheese, crackers & veggie tray reception.  No alcohol.  And I believe 18 people attended.  Why?  BECAUSE WE COULDN'T AFFORD ANYTHING ELSE!!!  We kept it extremely small inviting ONLY family and our VERY closest friends.  Afterwards my groom and I went out to dinner and invited anyone who wanted to come along to do so but with the understanding that everyone paid for their own meal.  Now, I was told at the time that this was extremely tacky but to us we wanted to get married NOT hold a wedding.  Everyone who came understood our situation and NO ONE thought it was tacky.  In fact, we were told by everyone it was the best way to have an affordable wedding.  BUT...we gave our guests a little something to eat at our 3pm wedding and didn't forget to vary the damn food!  We had a lovely time and accomplished what we set out to do:  get married.  Our rehearsal dinner was attended by nearly all the guests and had a nice spaghetti dinner with salad and garlic bread for all those people very economically.  We asked FAMILY ONLY to please bring a dish.  Worked out great.  And everything from my gown to the peanuts and pretzels came to less than $800.  We didn't invite 500 people and then feed them rice krispie treats and bad root beer floats.  That's just begging for gifts.  

 

I tend to think the difference in receptions isn't so much regional as cultural.  Italians and Irish are highly concentrated in the northeast and well known for their get togethers with more food than they could eat in a week.  I grew up in the pacific northwest where ethnicity tends to be more diverse and so it really wasn't expected that you have a sit down dinner because many people attended so many different types of receptions from strictly cake and punch in the church basement to a full sit down dinner.  In fact, sandwiches and salads with cake and keg was really the norm.  My family is of german descent and we thought my cousin had quite the blowout when she served a few hot appetizers along with her sandwiches.

 

Having been a cancer patient I can't possibly criticize Cathy's outfit.  Geez, she got out of the hospital the day before!  I'm betting she wasn't even up to shopping and simply wore the nicest thing she had.  I'm just happy she was able to be there.

 

The exclusive reception back at the compound?  UNFORGIVABLE!  All that says to everyone else is "Thanks for the gifts but you aren't important enough to me to actually celebrate with so see ya!"

[Shugardrawers]

A note one the honeymoon:  It's my fervent hope they DIDN'T have sex that first night!  Going from strictly side hugs and hand holding to full on hot monkey sex in 2 hours is just too much for someone who's only ever seen a naked male when changing his diapers.  I would hope they did some kissing and cuddling the first night then slowly progressed to touching and then after a week or so to the "full act".  I hope Derrikdillard had some compassion for his bride and her obvious fear and nervousness for the first few nights!

Edited October 30, 2014 by Shugardrawers

[GEML]

One thing I noticed (and replayed to double check) they prepared for as many as 3,000 but had only 1,000 show up. Now, that is still an enormous number, but a 1/3 show rate is actually pretty low. Most brides who do weddings can expect half to 2/3rds. So in a sense, Jill was dissed.

And yes indeed, liquor at the revivals of the south was a HUGE problem! Jim Beam whiskey might be legal now, but at one time it was just a family in the wilderness getting a little warmth as they could.... ;)

[NausetGirl]

These people are so unsanitary

 

Let's face it, people. This wedding was Hee Haw Amateur Night. Mechelle never said a truer sentence in her life than "We Duggars are backyard and barefoot people..." First off, there should have been tents and seating. Not just to prevent melting food but for everyone's comfort. It was the middle of June and a nice sunny day as best I could tell. If they insisted on holding the reception outside and there was roofed room around the church [under eaves etc], that should have been where food tables and some of the seating was set up. A PROFESSIONAL caterer would have known enough to slice the Rice Krispie treats and any other frosted/sticky items and place them on those small individual white paper doilies. A PROFESSIONAL caterer would have known re-frozen ice cream should never have been served.  If it was, which doesn't seem clear as of now. The sheet cakes could have been sliced and plated, with a fork alongside, during the ceremony, so they wouldn't dry out too much before being served. Candy and nuts should have been served in large bowls, with serving spoons in each bowl and smaller bowls or cups - or even cocktail napkins - on the table for guests to help themselves. Pickles, despite being Duggar favorites, were not appropriate items considering the rest of the menu. They would have been fine had small sandwiches or deli wraps been served, along with crudite platters, cheese and crackers etc.  All of which also would have been a nice counterpoint to all that sugar.  PS - I can't imagine how spastic the youngest kids were that evening, after running around wild and unsupervised most of the day shoveling down sugar.  In my mind's eye I just see little Duggars [maybe larger Duggars as well] crashed in their tracks, all over the TTH, sleeping wherever they dropped.  Not washed, jammied and put to bed - a bed with clean sheets and pillows - at 7 or 8 that night after a very busy and exciting day.

Edited October 30, 2014 by NausetGirl

[TVFAN]

I have to weigh in on the "reception" issue.  I come from a small town in the Midwest and did not attend a wedding where much more than cake and punch was served until I was in college. Church hall receptions with no alcohol were the norm.  So, the amount of food served does not throw me in the slightest.

 

I also suspect that when Jill and Derrick say that 3,000 people were "invited," they mean that an open invitation to the wedding was announced at a number of local churches and other organizations with which their families are affiliated.  Since the invitation was open that is why they had no clue how many people might show.  I am sure some people came just out of curiosity and the desire to be on TV.

 

When I was a child, it was not at all uncommon for an open invitation to the WEDDING to be read during the announcements at church.  Everyone there knew that if you did not receive an individual invitation, you were welcome to come to the ceremony, but were not invited to the reception.  The idea was to allow your childhood Sunday School teacher to come to the big event if she liked, but not be pressured to buy a gift.  It also cut down on the reception expenses.

 

I actually think of the party back at the house as the real reception.  I have no doubt that those who received written invitations to the wedding were invited to the party as well.  Providing food to those who simply received an open invitation was simply a nice gesture.  I sincerely doubt any of them were from out of town.

[BitterApple]

NausetGirl, if I was there with small children I think I would have bolted after letting them have a cookie each. There is nothing worse than a cranky kid coming down from a major sugar high. 

[demarti]

A note one the honeymoon:  It's my fervent hope they DIDN'T have sex that first night!  Going from strictly side hugs and hand holding to full on hot monkey sex in 2 hours is just too much for someone who's only ever seen a naked male when changing his diapers.  I would hope they did some kissing and cuddling the first night then slowly progressed to touching and then after a week or so to the "full act".  I hope Derrikdillard had some compassion for his bride and her obvious fear and nervousness for the first few nights!

Oh, I don't think ole' Derrick would have lasted more than a minute anyway so I hope she let him have his moment.

[GEML]

I seriously don't think it is that big of a deal to go from kissing to sex in a day's time. The Duggars are too hung up about sex, but I also think that sometimes people act like people in their twenties who have waited are like two teenagers. Trust me, it works out! ;)

[Barb23]

OMG. That picture of the rice krispie treats on top of a beautiful bed of baby's breath is just so gauche and laughable.

I have been to some tacky and cheap weddings, but that is some seriously tacky, low brow shit.

I keep thinking about how many ungloved hands touched those "treats". Or how the J'howlers touched and/or drooled over them. I'm sure they got nice & gooey sitting out in the heat. Just Yuck!!!

[Fuzzysox]

I seriously don't think it is that big of a deal to go from kissing to sex in a day's time. The Duggars are too hung up about sex, but I also think that sometimes people act like people in their twenties who have waited are like two teenagers. Trust me, it works out! ;)

Jill looked like she was in a HOT hurry to get to business. They didn't wait one minute. She wanted to jump his bones.

[Darknight]

I cannot fathom for the life of me that Jill actually had her "reception" in the church parking lot! What on earth possessed her and her so called professional wedding planner to think that was ok? All that sugary food was siting outside on tables under the hot June sun for 90 minutes? Nothing was covered that I saw, so it was fodder for all the flies, mosquitos and bees that were buzzing by, wasn't it? No tables to put your "snack" down, no chairs to sit on, and socialize semi-comfortably? I wouldn't call this a reception, I don't have a word for it other than the annual church carnival, even then, the food is in a booth and is covered. Tacky, tasteless and CHEAP of them. It also was disrespectful for the Duggars to have a separate "real reception" for the 300 friends at their house after the fact. What does that tell the l,000 people who were at the church? "Oh, we'll have the real guests at our house after you leave". One simply doesn't invite 1500 people to a wedding unless it's being held in a sports arena, and even then, it's indoors. From what I understand, Jill didn't require RSVPs! Can you imagine that? She really was like a 14 year old planning a "really neat birthday party" all on her own.

I wonder how the Duggars would feel if someone invited them to an event and they had to eat in the parking lot

[NausetGirl]

A handful of points now that I've read the whole thread:

 

Our wedding in 2001 had a simple cake, punch, cheese, crackers & veggie tray reception.  No alcohol.  And I believe 18 people attended.  Why?  BECAUSE WE COULDN'T AFFORD ANYTHING ELSE!!!  We kept it extremely small inviting ONLY family and our VERY closest friends.  Afterwards my groom and I went out to dinner and invited anyone who wanted to come along to do so but with the understanding that everyone paid for their own meal.  Now, I was told at the time that this was extremely tacky but to us we wanted to get married NOT hold a wedding.  Everyone who came understood our situation and NO ONE thought it was tacky.  In fact, we were told by everyone it was the best way to have an affordable wedding.  BUT...we gave our guests a little something to eat at our 3pm wedding and didn't forget to vary the damn food!  We had a lovely time and accomplished what we set out to do:  get married.  Our rehearsal dinner was attended by nearly all the guests and had a nice spaghetti dinner with salad and garlic bread for all those people very economically.  We asked FAMILY ONLY to please bring a dish.  Worked out great.  And everything from my gown to the peanuts and pretzels came to less than $800.  We didn't invite 500 people and then feed them rice krispie treats and bad root beer floats.  That's just begging for gifts.  

 

I tend to think the difference in receptions isn't so much regional as cultural.  Italians and Irish are highly concentrated in the northeast and well known for their get togethers with more food than they could eat in a week.  I grew up in the pacific northwest where ethnicity tends to be more diverse and so it really wasn't expected that you have a sit down dinner because many people attended so many different types of receptions from strictly cake and punch in the church basement to a full sit down dinner.  In fact, sandwiches and salads with cake and keg was really the norm.  My family is of german descent and we thought my cousin had quite the blowout when she served a few hot appetizers along with her sandwiches.

 

Having been a cancer patient I can't possibly criticize Cathy's outfit.  Geez, she got out of the hospital the day before!  I'm betting she wasn't even up to shopping and simply wore the nicest thing she had.  I'm just happy she was able to be there.

 

The exclusive reception back at the compound?  UNFORGIVABLE!  All that says to everyone else is "Thanks for the gifts but you aren't important enough to me to actually celebrate with so see ya!"

 

Good for you, Shugardrawers! Your wedding sounded really nice and something everyone who was there looks back on with fond memories. When my brother/SIL and the rest of our family get to reminiscing about their wedding, we mostly remember the very intimate rehearsal dinner the night before. Just the wedding party [which included all siblings on both sides], parents, several out-of-towners and the priest who was going to officiate. No more than 15 people I think. My dad took us all to his favorite restaurant where he and Mom had been regulars for years. The staff there were all practically surrogate kids to my parents, and we all knew each other on a first-name basis. Dad announced "Please order anything you like and as much as you like..." and we had a wonderful evening.  It was one of the best parties I've ever been to. Mom later told me how much the evening had cost Dad, and it was a sizable chunk. He'd worked 41 years as an industrial pipe fitter, and with six kids to raise, was never a wealthy person. But he was always very smart when it came to $$ and was ready to give a really nice party for his son's wedding rehearsal. I know it was a source of enormous pleasure to him that he could take us all out that night, and was able to offer us anything off the menu and bar. To me, that is the real definition of hospitality - the generous treatment of guests. Even strangers.

Edited October 31, 2014 by NausetGirl

[Darknight]

Jill looked like she was in a HOT hurry to get to business. They didn't wait one minute. She wanted to jump his bones.

I agree. Jill probably wanted sex more than Derrick that day. I think they both were hot and horny

Edited October 30, 2014 by Darknight

[GEML]

It crossed my mind that maybe they really did need that chaperone....just how much time did they have alone as the bridal party walked out?????

[3girlsforus]

A handful of points now that I've read the whole thread:

 

Our wedding in 2001 had a simple cake, punch, cheese, crackers & veggie tray reception.  No alcohol.  And I believe 18 people attended.  Why?  BECAUSE WE COULDN'T AFFORD ANYTHING ELSE!!!  We kept it extremely small inviting ONLY family and our VERY closest friends.  Afterwards my groom and I went out to dinner and invited anyone who wanted to come along to do so but with the understanding that everyone paid for their own meal.  Now, I was told at the time that this was extremely tacky but to us we wanted to get married NOT hold a wedding.  Everyone who came understood our situation and NO ONE thought it was tacky.  In fact, we were told by everyone it was the best way to have an affordable wedding.  BUT...we gave our guests a little something to eat at our 3pm wedding and didn't forget to vary the damn food!  We had a lovely time and accomplished what we set out to do:  get married.  Our rehearsal dinner was attended by nearly all the guests and had a nice spaghetti dinner with salad and garlic bread for all those people very economically.  We asked FAMILY ONLY to please bring a dish.  Worked out great.  And everything from my gown to the peanuts and pretzels came to less than $800.  We didn't invite 500 people and then feed them rice krispie treats and bad root beer floats.  That's just begging for gifts.  

 

I tend to think the difference in receptions isn't so much regional as cultural.  Italians and Irish are highly concentrated in the northeast and well known for their get togethers with more food than they could eat in a week.  I grew up in the pacific northwest where ethnicity tends to be more diverse and so it really wasn't expected that you have a sit down dinner because many people attended so many different types of receptions from strictly cake and punch in the church basement to a full sit down dinner.  In fact, sandwiches and salads with cake and keg was really the norm.  My family is of german descent and we thought my cousin had quite the blowout when she served a few hot appetizers along with her sandwiches.

 

Having been a cancer patient I can't possibly criticize Cathy's outfit.  Geez, she got out of the hospital the day before!  I'm betting she wasn't even up to shopping and simply wore the nicest thing she had.  I'm just happy she was able to be there.

 

The exclusive reception back at the compound?  UNFORGIVABLE!  All that says to everyone else is "Thanks for the gifts but you aren't important enough to me to actually celebrate with so see ya!"

All of this... and I think this shows best that it's not about dinner vs. buffet, vs cake and punch etc... it's about doing something that shows respect for the people who care enough about you to be at your wedding. What you did was not tacky in the least. If I was close enough to you to be part of 18 friends and family you chose to have witness your wedding, I would be happy to pay for my own dinner after a simple reception like that just to be with dear friends on their wedding day. I would know you well enough to know that financially you made the decisions you needed to and still made an effort to make your guests feel welcome with cake and veggies/cheese/cracker trays etc. I never go to a wedding expecting a 5 course meal. I have been to a few with just cake and punch but I've never been to a wedding where I didn't feel like the bride and groom cared about their guests. That's the feeling I got with this one. 

 

And I will echo the 'I don't care what Cathy wore." She's critically ill and has been thrown into this circus. I'm sure she was just grateful to be with her son on his wedding day and if I was Derick I would have been thrilled to have her there even in her pajamas.  And even still I thought she looked lovely.

[Darknight]

I seriously don't think it is that big of a deal to go from kissing to sex in a day's time. The Duggars are too hung up about sex, but I also think that sometimes people act like people in their twenties who have waited are like two teenagers. Trust me, it works out! ;)

think the problem is going from not touching to saying it's sinful to touching and having full blown sex. My goodness. Normal people build up to that. They talk about these things but the Duggar kids can't because they have no privacy until the wedding night. Heck these kids don't even know the mechanics of sex

[GEML]

I'll respectfully disagree. These aren't child brides, and the Legos discussion at Josh's wedding was for the cameras. I do think that they probably understand just fine.

[Darknight]

Let's face it, people. This wedding was Hee Haw Amateur Night. Mechelle never said a truer sentence in her life than "We Duggars are backyard and barefoot people..." First off, there should have been tents and seating. Not just to prevent melting food but for everyone's comfort. It was the middle of June and a nice sunny day as best I could tell. If they insisted on holding the reception outside and there was roofed room around the church [under eaves etc], that should have been where food tables and some of the seating was set up. A PROFESSIONAL caterer would have known enough to slice the Rice Krispie treats and any other frosted/sticky items and place them on those small individual white paper doilies. A PROFESSIONAL caterer would have known re-frozen ice cream should never have been served. If it was, which doesn't seem clear as of now. The sheet cakes could have been sliced and plated, with a fork alongside, during the ceremony, so they wouldn't dry out too much before being served. Candy and nuts should have been served in large bowls, with serving spoons in each bowl and smaller bowls or cups - or even cocktail napkins - on the table for guests to help themselves. Pickles, despite being Duggar favorites, were not appropriate items considering the rest of the menu. They would have been fine had small sandwiches or deli wraps been served, along with crudite platters, cheese and crackers etc. All of which also would have been a nice counterpoint to all that sugar. PS - I can't imagine how spastic the youngest kids were that evening, after running around wild and unsupervised most of the day shoveling down sugar. In my mind's eye I just see little Duggars [maybe larger Duggars as well] crashed in their tracks, all over the TTH, sleeping wherever they dropped. Not washed, jammied and put to bed - a bed with clean sheets and pillows - at 7 or 8 that night after a very busy and exciting day.

So all the professional wedding bullshit was for show for 10 episodes??? I can't with these people. And they're could've gotten an ice cream truck for all that. I know someone who rented an ice cream caterer and had ice cream trucks serve ice cream and sundaes

[Barb23]

That has to be traumatizing on some level. I remember my first non-group date, I was a nervous wreck and all we did was go see "Save the Last Dance", I can't imagine the first time I'm alone with guy being the night I marry him and have sex for the first time.

And when the whole nation knows about it.

[Sew Sumi]

It's been days and I still can't get the idea of how awful eating pickles and root beer floats at the same event would taste.** And before anyone reminds me, yes, I know that they had lemonade and other snacks, too, and that no one (probably) ate those two items together. But when they were showing them getting the "reception" food ready, pickles, ice cream, and root beer are what they focussed on and my mind keeps putting them together. Part of planning food is pairing foods and beverages that complement each other. Their fancy wedding planner could not even steer them toward cheap food items that would pair better.  

 

**Unless you are pregnant, I suppose. OMG now it all makes sense since the Duggars have probably witnessed a pregnant MEchelle eating repulsive food combos for their entire lives. 

Neither wedding planner was "fancy." The food coordinator was Sierra, the "cake doctor" who "rescued" Michael's first birthday cake. I doubt that neither she nor Venessa (the logistical "planner") were paid.

[BitterApple]

So all the professional wedding bullshit was for show for 10 episodes??? I can't with these people. And they're could've gotten an ice cream truck for all that. I know someone who rented an ice cream caterer and had ice cream trucks serve ice cream and sundaes

They allegedly prepared 3,000 root beer floats, yet only 1,000 guests showed up. I'm sure many of those guests didn't even stay for the reception. So that means the majority of those floats went right into the trash. 

 

Honestly if I'd hired VEnessa and that's the best she could come up with, I would have put a stop payment on her check. I understand she wasn't given a good budget to work with, but there were so many common sense no-no's that should have been avoided. Desserts in the hot sun, lack of seating and shade, no serving utensils, melted ice cream, poor presentation, volunteers prepping food with their hair down etc. A real wedding planner would have been on top of that stuff.

[Shugardrawers]

THANK YOU!  To all who agreed my wedding WASN'T tacky in the least.  No one who attended thought so and those who would have just weren't invited. I'd have loved to have had a full sit down dinner but it just wasn't feasible hence our decision to have very few people attend.  If you can't afford to feed people properly then DON'T INVITE THEM!  Though that wasn't the case at this wedding.  It was just plain Boob's cheapness.  

 

My point about the wedding night is this: To ME it would feel like my first alone date when I was 16.  If I'd have been expected to have sex that night I'd have been terrified.  I'd never kissed that boy either and to go from that first tentative kiss to sex in a matter of a couple of hours would have been horrifying.  You have to work up to that no matter how old you are.  Anyone who's had a one night stand would understand how awkward that is when you have barely touched.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Neither wedding planner was "fancy." The food coordinator was Sierra, the "cake doctor" who "rescued" Michael's first birthday cake. I doubt that neither she nor Venessa (the logistical "planner") were paid.

Sierra is a fellow fundie and friend of the Duggars.

[Barb23]

I'm thinking it was to either camouflage that she was wearing diapers or it was to keep the diaper snug and from sagging down if it got full. Or maybe both.

I didn't even think of that. I didn't even realize she was wearing leggings until another poster commented about it. You would have thought they could have found a fancy pair of undies to go on over the diaper/pullups (if she was wearing them) instead of having her wear the long hot leggings. Poor thing, I wonder how they explained to her why she was wearing them & the other girls weren't.

I noticed that they said the 3,000 cookies were made in the Duggar kitchen. They didn't say the Duggars made them. I imagine they pawned that job off to "volunteers" who were allowed to use their industrial kitchen. After all, Jana was locked in the attic making countless dresses and ties, Jessa was courting, Jill was busy trying on her dress and texting her fiance, and Joy was crying a lot.

You got that correct.

[truthtalk2014]

Oh, I don't think ole' Derrick would have lasted more than a minute anyway so I hope she let him have his moment.

If these kisses he gave Jill that day or any indication, he may have had a headache that night.

 

Watched the end again so I could see all those people standing out in 90 degrees eating cake that's been sitting around cut all day complete with the nice little sprinkling of some big Arkansas flies.  

 

Watched the kisses again- especially after they fed each other cake.  I can honestly say that Derrick kisses her like one would kiss their mother.  I can tell Jill keeps waiting- hoping he will give her a real kiss.  

[Sew Sumi]

Sierra is a fellow fundie and friend of the Duggars.

Exactly. Add to that a dedicated leghumper and you can pretty easily ascertain that she wasn't paid for her (shoddy at best) efforts. Can you imagine what a real wedding planner (or two, as was the case here) would have cost Boob?

 

They were famewhore/leghumping freebies.

[truthtalk2014]

Neither wedding planner was "fancy." The food coordinator was Sierra, the "cake doctor" who "rescued" Michael's first birthday cake. I doubt that neither she nor Venessa (the logistical "planner") were paid.

Speaking of awful dresses, I thought the cake coordinators dress was hideous.  VEnnessa (maybe she wants to be like MEchelle) got on my last nerve as well.  When the people were carrying trays of root beer floats out and she kept saying "SMILE! SMILE!"  

 

Please lady.  It's 90 degrees in the middle of the day in Arkansas and they are carrying melted root beer floats, hoping they don't spill on their clothes.  

 

EDIT- forgot to add that I found it funny that Jinger said, "So I grabbed a melted root beer float."  lol

Edited October 31, 2014 by truthtalk2014

[cereality]

I don't really have a problem with a lack of a sit down meal at the "reception," as the church parking lot reception was NOT the real one. My view is that the wedding was an open invite to whoever wanted to come gawk, and then the true reception was the "closed" invite for 300 or so. The Duggars were merely feeding those who came to the church as a courtesy but did not have to. BUT I think the problem here is that of that 1000 at the church, a few hundred were volunteers. They had been slogging away since that morning (or before) and I think it's unkind to take someone's free labor from 8 am to 3 pm (as well as a wedding gift probably) without offering them food besides cake/cookies/candy/sugar. They must have been tired from being on their feet for hours, and it wouldn't have killed the Duggars to make the church "reception" food a bit better merely as a thank you to those few hundred volunteers. Now of course if you want better food for the 200 volunteers, there's no way you can deny it to the other 800 -- but it still didn't have to be a meal. Some cheese and crackers and veggie trays and bread sticks to balance out the sugar, sugar and more sugar would have been nice.

 

Did Derick and Jill go back to the reception at the house or did they just show their face at the church reception, cut the cake, and then leave to get it on?

 

As for the reception at the house, these are supposedly the Duggars' "friends" that they fellowship with -- not an open invite. There is NO excuse to not feed them a proper meal. If the wedding ended around 3 pm, these people went back to the house and dinner hour was quickly approaching. If they actually made it pot luck, that is beyond cheap. I mean these people have traveled (like the Bates, Paines etc.) and many of the women have volunteered at the wedding, bought a wedding gift, and now they have to bring a dish as well?? JB could have had hot food catered for that one -- even BBQ fare (though Cathy just did that the night before); even spaghetti, salad and bread would have hit the spot at that point.

 

To the poster who said they've never been to a wedding where the bride and groom don't care about their attendance -- it happens and it sucks. You actually see it all the time in my culture (Indian) where people insist on throwing 500 person weddings. The food is beyond plentiful, but the reality is the bride and groom don't know or care about 500 people. Often the people invited are attenuated from the couple as that's how it was done in the old country -- the parents' colleagues or parents' old college friends and their families etc; some of these people have never even met the bride and groom or maybe saw one of them once as a baby. You definitely feel like it doesn't matter to the couple whether you attended or you sent your next door neighbor as long as the seat was full and the party thus looked big.

 

Did Derick get any time with his family on his last day as a single man? It seemed like Jill was with him THE WHOLE TIME. He was with his brother in the groom's room, but then JD, Justin etc. were there too. And then when his mom arrived, Jill was with him. I know in most families the groom's parents will get a few minutes with him after he's dressed, before pictures etc. to exchange a few words or just spend some time just as a nuclear family. Cathy obviously wasn't able to be there until the last minute, and then we she got there -- it seemed like Jill jumped in on that time and Dan was no where to be seen in that room.

[andromeda331]

The running out of the church is still so weird to me. Did she think it was suppose to be cute? That's general question because it looked like they were running off to have sex in a closet. I hope that's not what they were going with. After that everything seem to be in a rush or designed so they could get out of their quick. No place to sit down or put your snacks down odds are your not going to feel like hanging around for a long time. Just right outside the church on the sidewalks, grass and parking lot. It really felt like the guests were suppose to chuck everything so the bride and groom could get out of there. I mean if you don't want to feed your guests, don't feed them. A little note that there's going to be no food or just cake. Then they know whether to eat before they come. But if your going to give them food at least give them chairs and tables. But again it really felt like they were trying to rush through it. If that's the case what was the hold point of having a wedding ceremony and then a reception? Why not get married a justice of the peace or even by reverend or what ever their religious person is called and leave? I've been to all kinds of weddings some that offered food, some that didn't and some that were just the ceremony and nothing else. But if I was at a reception like that I would why they bother to invite guests or have food if they were in such a rush to leave.   

 

Dan's speech about meeting Jill before hand and checking to see if she was good enough for Jill, was it just me or did he pause before answering? Translation, I tried to talk my brother out of this but it didn't work and now I'm hoping for the best.

 

I thought Cathy looked really nice and I'm glad she was able to be there for her son's wedding. But I do kind of wish someone would have suggested postponing the wedding. I'm not saying they had to or there was anything wrong with them going on with the wedding. I just think it would have been really nice if after learning his mother wouldn't make it to the rehearsal dinner and it was questionable whether or not she would have made it to the ceremony if Jill or someone suggested or asked Derick if he wanted to postpone it. 

 

Having the groomsmen and bridesmaids stand together at the ceremony, is that new? 

 

I think my favorite part of the wedding was Erin pounding those piano keys. Was there something you wanted to say Erin? I'm still laughing. 

[Barb23]

Jill looked like she was in a HOT hurry to get to business. They didn't wait one minute. She wanted to jump his bones.

And as it was said before, it's so sad their "covenant" wedding ceremony came across as just a pass to get things going. Hopefully, they were concentrating on the vows & the seriousness of the ceremony but you know sex was front & foremost on their minds.

I wonder how the Duggars would feel if someone invited them to an event and they had to eat in the parking lot

They could always eat on the Stink Bus.

[cereality]

In contrast to the Duggars, the Kellers -- who aren't nearly as well off -- sprang for food at Josh and Anna's wedding. I don't think it was fancy, but I remember Josh saying that it was made by the church ladies and I distinctly remember the cameras panning over things like chicken salad sandwiches. I only remember because I thought that was odd for a wedding, but honestly compared to the Duggars' limited dessert reception at the church followed by a potluck at home, at least it was real food in addition to cake which I'm sure held everyone over as they made their long drives back to Tennessee or wherever. And unless it just wasn't shown, it seemed like the Kellers did one reception -- none of this A list or B list stuff re who got an invite home. There may not have been as many gawkers at Josh and Anna's wedding, and given that the Kellers live in a manufactured home, they may not have had an option of bringing their closest friends home for a separate reception so I guess they decided to feed and socialize with everyone there at the same time.