S06.E04: Oppo Research

[beeble]

Was Neesa being followed by NSA? I know phone calls were being tracked, but how does Castro of all people know about Neesa's abortion? Was he listening in on phone calls as well?  

 

Castro is turning into too much of a mustache-twirling villain right now. I know he's supposed to be a dick, but this seems a bit over-the-top.

 

Frankly, Michael Cereris and Christine Baranski will have to break into some Sweeney Todd for me to get over it. Nathan Lane and Alan Cumming are free to join in.

[beeble]

Why should she bow down because her stupid son knocked up a girl even if he had access to all the informations in the world to have safe sex ? Boohoooo, how traumatic for him to have gone through that, how frightening that must have been. Cry me a river. Zach made a point 10026 times he was to be trusted and he was not a baby anymore. Yeah, right, how well that worked out for him. He made a big mistake and didn't have the courage to talk about it to his parents while the girl didn't have that chance. It's his right, no problem but Alicia has the right to be pissed off at him for hiding that.

 

 

Well, condoms break, birth control pills may not always work (due to some antibiotics) and even adults have unexpected pregnancies. I'd say it may not be teenage stupidity that caused this.  And while I'd argue that this was difficult for Zach, the anger at Alicia seems to stem more from her reaction being that this news might hurt her campaign more than anything.  We know she's not a very nice person and Gov Florrick, while deeply flawed, demonstrates much more empathy than Alicia. So yeah, I'd avoid Mom and talk to Dad.  Alicia should accept that she's not a very nice person, and really not very approachable. Actually I thought it would have been perfectly plausible if Zach had told his dad, his uncle, his grandmother, his sister, and Kalinda. That would have been hilarious for Alicia to have been the only one not in the abortion-news loop.

[CleoCaesar]

Oh, and when you get into bed with a bad guy like Bishop, are they so stupid that they would EVER think that they could come out with clean hands? Alicia and LG, broke their moral code for MONEY a long, long time ago. Now the rooster has come home to roost.

 

It would be interesting to see if the Kings are setting up a huge arc of Alicia's downfall. As has been observed by many, she's become much more ruthless, pragmatic, cold, and self-serving over the seasons. Now she is alienating family members. Her marriage is a sham. She lost a lot of Cary's trust. She doesn't have Kalinda as a friend. Will is dead. Are we going to (finally) see a female Walter White? St. Alicia, the good wife, becomes another crooked, dirty Chicago politician. 

 

Personally I'd love to see something like this. The show has plenty of sympathetic characters, so I wouldn't feel the loss of "good Alicia" that acutely. And JM would really rock it. But seriously, how cool would it be if in the sixth season, our protagonist becomes the antihero and then becomes the "villain"?

[Kris117]

I could understand Alicia's anger at Zach's lies to her. I could also understand her telling Zach that he should lie and say that she knew all about the abortion. When she told him that he should say that she argued against the abortion, she went too far. That to me is where crossed the line from mother to politician. 

 

All I want before I die is a series of gifs of Eli's reactions in this episode, especially his reactions to everything Grace and her friends did. 

[Cattitude]

Well, condoms break, birth control pills may not always work (due to some antibiotics) and even adults have unexpected pregnancies. I'd say it may not be teenage stupidity that caused this.  And while I'd argue that this was difficult for Zach, the anger at Alicia seems to stem more from her reaction being that this news might hurt her campaign more than anything.  We know she's not a very nice person and Gov Florrick, while deeply flawed, demonstrates much more empathy than Alicia. So yeah, I'd avoid Mom and talk to Dad.  Alicia should accept that she's not a very nice person, and really not very approachable. Actually I thought it would have been perfectly plausible if Zach had told his dad, his uncle, his grandmother, his sister, and Kalinda. That would have been hilarious for Alicia to have been the only one not in the abortion-news loop.

 

I really thought the nerve Zach struck that caused her to be OTT angry was the lying reminded her of Peter. I thought Alicia reacted very odd to finding out about the abortion but I chaulked it up to realizing that Zack was like Peter and would purposely hide things from her. I thought b/c she pointedly had asked him if something was up and he lied about it rather than just never telling her is what bothered her so much. I thought it really refected badly on her that her first thought was to withhold money from him. She really treated him like an adult in the situation when truely he was a child and could not for the life of her realize that her screwed up life had any impact on the situation. She dumped all the blame on Zack and never took any of it herself as a parent.

 

I felt really sorry for Zack after she basically telephone bombed him and hung up. Wow some mom she is.

[caracas1914]

The specific lying about her stances to  Zach on the abortion   is what crossed the line for me...

 

It would have been enough for her to say " We  are discussing it now , right?  so when asked you can say there was  a discussion, and that of course what we  talked about  was private.  You are not lying because if you are asked this discussion would have been in the past tense.  Other than that you keep your mouth shut."

 

How difficult is that? 

Edited October 13, 2014 by caracas1914

[buckboard]

Betybee, you said that the rest of the state is not as liberal as Chicago, so Alicia wouldn't have an eight point lead or be able to get elected SA. 

 

SA is not a statewide office.  That's the Attorney General.  The office of SA is what most states call District Attorney and it is a countywide office.  Alicia is running for SA of Cook County.

[Day2Day]

 

 

All I want before I die is a series of gifs of Eli's reactions .....

Not from last night, but a look at the "double lift"    Enjoy, Kris117.

[Kris117]

Love it! Thanks, Day2Day. 

 

I really thought the nerve Zach struck that caused her to be OTT angry was the lying reminded her of Peter. I thought Alicia reacted very odd to finding out about the abortion but I chaulked it up to realizing that Zack was like Peter and would purposely hide things from her. 

 

That's an interesting idea. It's not just that Zack didn't tell her, but that he actively lied when she could tell that something was going on with him. 

 

SA is not a statewide office.  That's the Attorney General.  The office of SA is what most states call District Attorney and it is a countywide office.  Alicia is running for SA of Cook County.

 

 

I have to remind myself of this every time they mention the SA on this show. 

[CleoCaesar]

I have to remind myself of this every time they mention the SA on this show.

 

Same here. Probably because the shows treats the SA races way, way too reverently. If I asked a random group of people who their SA is, I bet very few people could answer. Governor, yes. Maybe senators and representatives too. SA for one county? Probably no.

[Former Nun]

Something better change.  I didn't like this episode at all...so many angles, scoops, introductions, intrigues.  Give me back my Good Wife!

[swimmyfish]

I really enjoyed this episode. I, like Alicia, was completely stunned that Lemond Bishop was behind her PAC; unlike Alicia, I was completely delighted by this turn of events. I am very excited to see how Bishop's involvement in her campaign plays out.

 

I was also very surprised at Alicia's scorched earth response to the news of the abortion, but I agree that a lot of her anger was residual from Peter's debacle and being deliberately lied to. I also think that her response was echoes nicely in Owen's dumping out his wine and stomping out of the apartment without a word; I think slack & burn must be part of how those two were raised.

 

My main objection is that Alicia kept referring to it as "Zach's" abortion. It was actually Nisa's - her decision, her choice, regardless of any talk Alicia might hypothetically have been able to have with Zach about it. I think it would have been nice if the show had acknowledged that at all. I'm not a campaign manager or anything, but I feel like this whole story could have easily have been spun as Alicia supporting a woman's right to choose.

 

I'd also really like it if Eli's daughter could somehow get involved with the campaign. Don't care how, really - I'd just like to see it happen.

[heavysnaxx]

 

Quite frankly, if one of my sons' gf had an abortion, I really wouldn't expect them to tell me and my sons tell me almost everything.

 

Well, that was an interesting episode. When it began, I liked Alicia well enough, even though I thought she was remarkably passive and indecisive. By the end of the hour, I disliked her enough to wonder if I'm going to watch again. And I've been watching from the beginning!

 

Here's why: She was shockingly entitled about Nyssa's abortion. It would have been great for Zack to have family support but he made a judgement call that Alicia's reaction pretty much vindicates. Alicia somehow made Nyssa's abortion all about her and followed that up with the craven order to publicly state that she was opposed to Nyssa choosing an abortion, though it's pretty clear she privately is glad that Nyssa made that decision. Yeah, I think Gloria would really cheer that kind of principled action. Alicia's "sense of allegiance is ruled by expedience," as good old Tom Lehrer once sang of Werner von Braun.

 

My understanding of what happened to Zack was this: He had to negotiate a genuinely frightening event that involved an unplanned pregnancy with a girlfriend who had to decide whether to continue the pregnancy. He seems to have done well -- he stood by his girlfriend who had the support of *her* parents, so they weren't alone -- and Alicia doesn't seem to understand where his loyalty and duty lay in the situation. Hint: not with his mother. Anybody else see shades of Jackie here?

 

Note that I said "Nyssa's abortion." I think it's sweet when men say, "We're pregnant," because I just don't care to nitpick the semantics of joy. But in this case -- a not-so-joyful one where we've already got some Boundary Issues -- the phrase "Zack's abortion" makes me want to interrogate Mrs. Florrick as to the exact location of Zack's uterus, cervix, and va-jay-jay, and ask if he's puking in the am, etc.  I just hate how women's real and significant physical experiences -- pregnancy and abortion -- get downplayed by being presented as essentially shareable emotional experiences.

 

Gah. I need more Diane. Stat.

[Big Bad Wolf]

There really was a lot of "WTF?" with regard to Alicia's reactions to things this episode. It's now clear that if she runs it will have a really terrible effect on the people she's supposed to love most, but she's still going to go ahead and do it. This seems too out of character for me. She's turned into a ruthlessly ambitious politician who will throw those nearest and dearest to them under the bus overnight? I think if the writers were determined to have Alicia run for whatever reason, they went overboard with what would come to light if she did: Zach, her brother, her mother and (most likely) her husband will be horribly humiliated. I know we've seen that Alicia has a selfish side before, but this paints her in a terrible light, and it's not convincing; it's not like she hasn't got plenty else going on with her law firm still in its infancy.

 

The look on Eli's face as it occurred to him that Peter wasn't sleeping with the intern but with her mother was comedy gold.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Big Bad Wolf

[lunastartron]

while Alicia gets to be the bad mother who doesn't care about her son's feelings. 

 

ETA : I have no empathy for the boy, I think it's clear, wow, I didn't know I was so angry at him. The girl a lot more. That would give me a pause about running, the thought of ruining her life.

 

Considering her first reaction was to cut him off financially so he "can pay his own way through college," I'm not surprised at all that Zach didn't feel comfortable communicating the crisis to Alicia. I also see zero evidence in her response that she, well, does in fact care about her son's feelings in any capacity. Her reaction was contextualized in her worry about how it was going to affect her and her literally couple-of-days old dream of running for public office. She is also apparently unconcerned with him lying when it benefits her, as her directive to him to support her fabrication shows. I guess Peter's not the only parent from whom he inherited his dishonesty.

 

I think Zach should basically never speak to her again if she feels that abruptly ending financial support for his education is an appropriate reply to a predicament in which millions of teenagers find themselves every year.

 

But I do think your point about the exclusion of Nissa from the fallout raises a good point: legally - and some would say morally- the decision to terminate the pregnancy was Nissa's and Nissa's alone. It really doesn't involve Alicia except in a tangential way, and yet she is determined to position herself  as the central martyr in her own internal morality play about the situation.

 

She really needs therapy because it seems to me like she has narcissistic personality disorder at this point.

 

 

 

Stockard Channing is perfect in her role, as is Dallas Roberts. And Mike Colter's Lemond Bishop is so smart, sexy, and downright delicious that I can't help but root for him, even though he's a drug dealing slimeball. The casting for this show is so great.

 

 

Not to mention, it's not like Alicia can walk in the office on her first day and say, "drop the case against my good friend and former partner". Ethically (not that this Alicia cares about ethics) she wouldn't be able to touch his case. It would get turned over to a neighboring county or the state's Attorney General, I would think. If Alicia wants to help Cary, the best way she can do that is by defending him. 

 

 

Yeah, seriously. Her only response seemed to be, "Castro is a big bully who picks on people." That's... not a platform. It was refreshing to hear her admit she doesn't really care about people, though. lol

 

 

I always saw Zach as being closer to Peter, as well, and Alicia seems to agree with us, since she assumed that Peter already knew about the abortion. And her reaction! I can totally understand being upset, angry, hurt, whatever, but to not even consider how this might have affected Zach, let alone his poor girlfriend. Alicia acted like he lied to her about going to Boston so he could have a kegger. And not to be insensitive, but wouldn't one of the bigger reasons for teenagers to consider an abortion be that they're terrified of telling their parents? I would think a boy in that position volunteering that information to his mother would be the rare exception. No surprise to me that he kept it to himself.

 

They do seem to make Alicia more "gray" and insufferable as time goes by. I can't decide if making her so unlikable is stupid, brave, or both.

 

 

I think it's admirable and interesting when a writing team eschews the conventions of a traditionally "moral" character and sketches a protagonist with more nuance and complexity. However, it's disturbing to me that this and other similar programs like Scandal are held up as some sort of feminist innovation. Women protagonists with flaws are feminist, imo, because they bolster diversity and break the archetype of female purity.

 

But Alicia and Olivia Pope are not just unlikeable or ethically challenged. They're intellectually vacuous and downright stupid/deranged. Alicia obviously does not have the psychological depth or mental horsepower to fully grasp her own contradictions and delusions. This differentiates her from, say, Claire Underwood and Ellen Parsons/Patty Hewes of Damages (a show that had its own troubling undertones of misogyny albeit in a different way) who are all strong and ambitious but completely conscious of and reconciled with the price they need to pay for their respective objectives.

[PaperTree]

Quite frankly, if one of my sons' gf had an abortion, I really wouldn't expect them to tell me and my sons tell me almost everything.

I wouldn't have told my parents either.  Especially if the girl's parents were consenting and I didn't need to ask them for money.

 

I think Alicia would have totally supported it at the time, but from Zach's pov; don't go there if you don't have too.  I always hated household drama.

 

My folks would have been really pissed at first when they found out; but I think they would have gotten over it pretty quickly.

 

The "I'm an adult and I dealt with it, but I knew you were there if I needed you"  card is the one to play.

[lunastartron]

Well, that was an interesting episode. When it began, I liked Alicia well enough, even though I thought she was remarkably passive and indecisive. By the end of the hour, I disliked her enough to wonder if I'm going to watch again. And I've been watching from the beginning!

 

Here's why: She was shockingly entitled about Nyssa's abortion. It would have been great for Zack to have family support but he made a judgement call that Alicia's reaction pretty much vindicates. Alicia somehow made Nyssa's abortion all about her and followed that up with the craven order to publicly state that she was opposed to Nyssa choosing an abortion, though it's pretty clear she privately is glad that Nyssa made that decision. Yeah, I think Gloria would really cheer that kind of principled action. Alicia's "sense of allegiance is ruled by expedience," as good old Tom Lehrer once sang of Werner von Braun.

 

My understanding of what happened to Zack was this: He had to negotiate a genuinely frightening event that involved an unplanned pregnancy with a girlfriend who had to decide whether to continue the pregnancy. He seems to have done well -- he stood by his girlfriend who had the support of *her* parents, so they weren't alone -- and Alicia doesn't seem to understand where his loyalty and duty lay in the situation. Hint: not with his mother. Anybody else see shades of Jackie here?

 

Note that I said "Nyssa's abortion." I think it's sweet when men say, "We're pregnant," because I just don't care to nitpick the semantics of joy. But in this case -- a not-so-joyful one where we've already got some Boundary Issues -- the phrase "Zack's abortion" makes me want to interrogate Mrs. Florrick as to the exact location of Zack's uterus, cervix, and va-jay-jay, and ask if he's puking in the am, etc.  I just hate how women's real and significant physical experiences -- pregnancy and abortion -- get downplayed by being presented as essentially shareable emotional experiences.

 

Gah. I need more Diane. Stat.

 

Thank you for highlighting the reality that Nissa's reproductive choices are exactly that- hers and hers alone. Alicia essentially embodies entitlement and the concept of privilege (social, economic, racial) to me at this point.

[BearCat49]

Doesn't a PAC have to indicate who set it up?  Even if that's not true, wouldn't Eli and the campaign manager and Alicia want to know who was raising money for her - and before she even has officially entered the race?

Hoping that Alicia sees the light.  She's treated her family like crap, all sorts of skeletons will come out of her closet and she'll be in the pocket of Bishop.  So much for integrity in office. 

I'm surprised her campaign manager took on her campaign.  She really has no good explanation of why she wants to be SA and the negatives far outweigh the "but she stood by her husband."  She might be ahead by eight points today, but Castro has months to dig up more dirt, real or made up (like the DUI stop).

 

 

PACs are typically set-up by shell corporations, LLCs, entitled along the lines of "Citizens for Reformed Justice" or whatever.  Anyone, e.g. Castro, can do their research and discover that the backer is Bishop.  Although Eli's correct that they can not have direct contact with and/or influence the PAC, they'll obviously use surrogates to do their own oppo research and keep tabs on the group.

 

Agree, she needs to be ready to explain why she's running.  Don't believe we, the viewers, ever learned the real answer.  Not sure if Alicia even knows.  Perhaps the Kings will reveal it as the arc unfolds.

 

Before my time but I've read this problem occurred during one of Ted Kennedy's presidential campaigns.  A reporter asked him why he wanted to president and his response was apparently, "Uh, uh ...".  I understand he couldn't come up with an answer.  Guess the responses "because my brothers did" or "my family expects me to" weren't going to cut it.

 

Hoping that the focus returns to F/A -

[BearCat49]

On the other hand, I did love the oppo research scene and the start of the scene with her mom and brother.

 

Did Finn set her up, or was he being used by Castro to unknowingly set her up?

 

 

 

I believed that Finn was honest with her.  Although we've seen some normal, working interactions between Finn and Castro WRT Cary's prosecution, IIRC, they had a personal falling out when Finn was running for office.  Not surprising that a boss isn't thrilled when one of his protégés attempts a takeover.

 

Great scene with the loving family all together, i.e. Stockard Channing, Dallas Roberts and our heroine (cough ... cough).  JMHO but didn't get the impression Owen knew all his partner issues.  Thanks, Sis!

[PaperTree]

At this point, I really can't tell if Owen is pissed because he was blindsided by his partner's "activities", the fact that he was spied upon by Alicia, even though she didn't knowingly initiate it, the disgust at her running for office, or just a big crap burrito of it all rolled up together.

 

I loved his reaction.

 

Yes.  Zach didn't have an abortion.  Nissa did.  Alicia's reaction was totally selfish.

[BearCat49]

I always thought Alicia wasn't the best mother and put everything else first, but this episode took the cake in how she treated Zach. He was a scared teenage boy who lied to his parents so they wouldn't look at him differently or flip out. I can understand that. Alicia's response is to cut him off financially and treat him so cold? Just proves he was right to not say anything to her. 

 

 

Not surprised to hear of Nisa's abortion.  They were hinting at it during the teenage break-up before he left for school.  Had some sympathy for Alicia's dismay that Zach lied to her; not surprised that he did, however.  Also not surprised that Zach didn't share the news with either self-involved, distracted parent.

 

Didn't get the impression that Alicia actually cut him off, financially.  That was just her initial exclamation to Peter.  After her political instructions to Zach, she said "Enjoy college" and hung up.  Amazing the way Alicia (well, JM) turned the good wife into a cold, calculating politician seemingly overnight.  And, most importantly, why? 

[Big Bad Wolf]

My understanding was that Peter knew about Kalinda's faked identity/INS issues and used that to blackmail her, sleeping with her.  Don't believe the Kings ever developed that storyline.

 

I never got that impression. I don't think at all that Peter is the kind of man who would use blackmail to get a woman into bed. 1. He wouldn't need to. 2. He would consider it beneath him anyway.

[Cattitude]

I never got that impression. I don't think at all that Peter is the kind of man who would use blackmail to get a woman into bed. 1. He wouldn't need to. 2. He would consider it beneath him anyway.

 

And to be fair when does anyone need to use blackmail to get Kalinda to open her legs? She is pretty much all service all the time.

[iolanthe95]

I think Alicia's anger at Zach came from hurt.  She realized that they didn't really have the relationship she thought they did.  I think that's why she said if asked during the campaign about the abortion, he should lie and say she was a good mother.  She was angry at him AND herself.

Edited October 13, 2014 by iolanthe95

[LadyMustang65]

I don't honestly know how I feel about Alicia running for SA, but this episode (and I'm sure some of the ones to follow) just reminded why our political system is in so much trouble.  No one in their right mind would want to run for office knowing that every aspect of not just their life but their families' and friends' lives will be open to inspection and misrepresented, if not actually lied about, for political gain.  The crap with Alicia's stop for DUI was just that . . . crap.  The idea that her son's girlfriend having an abortion has anything to do really with her suitability for political office is absurd.  Or that her brother is gay and involved with a married man who does porn.  How does that possibly speak to whether Alicia would make a good SA or not?  But this is what goes on and why we are stuck with the garbage that we have in office right now.  The sane people . . . the ones who truly want to make the world a better place . . . the ones who aren't in it for power . . . they are too smart and too unwilling to put themselves and their families under the microscope like that.

[Runningwild]

The drunk driving set up reminded me of the Bubba the Love Sponge/MJ lawsuit that ended with MJ's attorney being set up by Bubba's.

Why didn't Peters opponent know about the abortion?

[mommalode]

Hasn't Alicia heard the advice that if you are going to get into politics, you should decide by age 12, and you and your family live un-attackable lives from then on?

Maybe she realizes that advice doesn't hold water anymore. If there's nothing real they can attack you with, they just make stuff up. Like she was really born in Paris. Or she pals around with anti-American socialites.

As for the Zach thing, good lord, Alicia, grow up as a parent already! Teenagers lie. Especially about their sex lives. Alicia needs to get over herself. Planning revenge by withholding financial support.... *hmmmph* What is she going to do when he doesn't need her money anymore? Manipulate Grace into turning against him? Selfish, cold woman.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

Thank you for highlighting the reality that Nissa's reproductive choices are exactly that- hers and hers alone. Alicia essentially embodies entitlement and the concept of privilege (social, economic, racial) to me at this point.

 

Correct, they are hers. But, Alicia's own team found out and knows that it will somehow become her fault. Just like it was Sarah Palin's fault that her daughter lied to her and had unprotected sex and chose the opposite (to keep her son). The whole country was turned upside down either defending her or branding her as an inattentive mother. How does Alicia not be branded inattentive when her son's girlfriend has an abortion without her knowledge? Would it have been okay for SP's daughter to have an abortion for her political career? Either way she was damned. Castro is being shown step by step to be a vindictive opponent and Eli knows

I wonder if Finn was trying to protect Alicia because he knew Castro may do what he did with the DUI stop. He told her let loose and take a cab. Perhaps she should have. Chicago politics is down and dirty. Glad I live nowhere near there.

Hearing all the remarks about Eli's facial expressions I need to learn not to work on my laptop and listen to this show. Now, I have to spend time rewatching just for Eli.

BTW, I wanted to reach through my screen and slap the kid and the mother. That kid played his part well.

[magdalene]

Poor Stockard Channing. Another plastic surgery cautionary tale.

 

I feel awful for Cary.

 

I understand that Alicia is upset that her son did not confide in her about his girlfriend's abortion.  However, the abortion is the girlfriends business, not Alicias.

 

Bishop is a real smooth operator. 

[BearCat49]

I never got that impression. I don't think at all that Peter is the kind of man who would use blackmail to get a woman into bed. 1. He wouldn't need to. 2. He would consider it beneath him anyway.

 

If that's true, then why was Peter apparently paying for sex during that same period?

 

It was during his SA days.  Perhaps Kalinda, to her credit, didn't care to sleep with the boss.  Kalinda does well on her own in that department, IMHO, so would that have been beneath her? 

 

As SA, Peter definitely had power and control, two things that politicians desire and gladly use for their benefit.  Kalinda, OTOH, was extremely vulnerable.

 

BTW, if my memory's correct, they implied it during an episode.  I'm not merely speculating ...

And to be fair when does anyone need to use blackmail to get Kalinda to open her legs? She is pretty much all service all the time.

 

Well, that's when SHE wants it, IMHO.  Peter doesn't seem like her type, to me.  The Cary relationship surprised me but her pursued her, is far younger than Peter and was more of a colleague to her, when their relationship began.  (She didn't report to him at L/G.) 

Was Neesa being followed by NSA? I know phone calls were being tracked, but how does Castro of all people know about Neesa's abortion? Was he listening in on phone calls as well?  

 

 

 

My understanding was that the oppo research Eli presented to Alicia was ordered by Eli, to warn Alicia of potential landmines, if she decided to run.  So, Castro may or may not know about Zach and Neesa's situation.  Depends on the quality of his oppo research!

Poor Stockard Channing. Another plastic surgery cautionary tale.

 

 

 

I can't even look at her head-on during her scenes.

Edited October 14, 2014 by BearCat49

[mrsdalgliesh]

 

 

At this point, I really can't tell if Owen is pissed because he was blindsided by his partner's "activities", the fact that he was spied upon by Alicia, even though she didn't knowingly initiate it, the disgust at her running for office, or just a big crap burrito of it all rolled up together.

 

Welcome to Moooooooooooe's!

 

I loved his reaction.

Me, too!

[BetyBee]

SA is not a statewide office.  That's the Attorney General.  The office of SA is what most states call District Attorney and it is a countywide office.  Alicia is running for SA of Cook County.

 

d-oh!  Thanks Buckboard.  I don't know what I was thinking!  Thanks for setting me straight!

[Guest]

I too balked at Alicia's shitty parenting.  And I too balk at the red wine, all the time.  You can't drink red wine from 5pm on and forever remain a size 0 and always sober.  They stick the red wine glass on these characters like a designer accessory.  

 

Eli's hair is like the horse of a different color.  If it has to be black for Broadway, just leave it black here.  It looks like they sprayed it with spray-can snow in some scenes.  

 

The facial scar comment better come back.  I think Peter's more confident than for him to make it up out of some weird jealousy tack.

 

I had an abortion in high school and the doctor called my mother and her reaction was the same:  "How could you do this TO ME?!?"  I still am pissed off about that.  Um, you rented the bedroom next to your 17 year-old daughter to her 23-year old divorced boyfriend, and you worked 5pm-3am.  But I did it to you?  I guess the message is, "I trusted you with freedoms and you screwed up."  But Zack DID the adult thing, which is take care of the problem himself and honor Nissa's privacy.  

 

But I guess St. Alicia believes in "just say no to drugs" and "just abstain from premarital sex".   

 

 

[buttersister]

I will laugh my ass off when her campaign goes down in flames, no one in her family is speaking to her, and her firms votes her out.   Then she can sit home by herself drinking red wine and hallucinating about a life with Will.

I will totally watch this--then they can cut away to Diane and Eli making mischief in their respective fiefdoms and all will be well. Alicia headed down this path for me a long time ago. Brave or b.s.? Not really caring, to tell the truth.

[Litnit]

Count me in as one who doesn't understand how it's a lie for Zach to not tell his mother all the details of his sex life.  And as many of you have pointed out, it was grating to hear Alicia call it Zach's abortion, considering it sure as hell wasn't.  I don't know if it was to create drama, but Alicia's personal moral code and her expectations of her children smacks of hypocrisy.

 

Again, the oppo research scene was done for drama, but Peter has gone through this at least twice, so I'm not sure why she seems so shocked / dismayed / surprised by any of it.

 

Interesting that Eli did not know about Kalinda and Peter.

 

Right, to add - the wine drinking.  I do a social message assignment with my media students and we have discussed the glorification of drinking, especially women's drinking, in the media.  This show could be Exhibits A - Z of showing beautiful, gurgling wine with none of the negative consequences of it.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Litnit

[Guest]

Also, look at how gorgeous the wine glasses are.  They're mesmerizingly clean and sparkly, never a water spot or lipstick mark and pretty much always full.  

[merylinkid]

Forget the abortion, Peter's banging hookers, her brother's love life, Jackie, etc., wait until Castro gets hold of her wine bill.   Can you see the ad know "Do you want an SA who comes to work drunk?"

[BearCat49]

Also, look at how gorgeous the wine glasses are.  They're mesmerizingly clean and sparkly, never a water spot or lipstick mark and pretty much always full.  

 

Yeah, that's definitely more than a standard pour.  Looks like at least 2 servings.  Was wondering myself if her wine would end up as a Castro issue, somehow.

 

WRT Zach, thought the only "lie" she was talking about was his claim that he was visiting Boston College on that day, i.e. not the details of his sex life.

[CleoCaesar]

I do a social message assignment with my media students and we have discussed the glorification of drinking, especially women's drinking, in the media.  This show could be Exhibits A - Z of showing beautiful, gurgling wine with none of the negative consequences of it.

 

Are they really glorifying Alicia's love of wine, though? Doesn't seem seem like it to me. She doesn't have Mad Men-esque three-martini lunches and doesn't drink on the job or abuse alcohol. Not to mention it's wine, not tequila or something. A couple of glasses don't necessarily bring about negative consequences.

[Grumpbump]

I have always loved Stockard Channing, but she has *destroyed* her face. So distracting. I love her as Alicia's mom, though. She just crazy enough.

[shapeshifter]

Ok, I love that fake cop show that Alicia is always watching.  The Stag standing behind the body. . . . . .

So it was fake? Too bad. TGW is popular enough that it would've been a great chance to do product placement for another show.

Why am I watching two shows where the ostensibly strong 40-something female leads are acting like complete dandelions?

"Dandelion?" Hee.

[beeble]

I have always loved Stockard Channing, but she has *destroyed* her face. So distracting. I love her as Alicia's mom, though. She just crazy enough.

 

I figured that something was wonky with the lighting. Just on her. I also wondered if she was trying to look like a crazy person. After all, it DID fit the character.  Don't mind me, I'm just in denial about an actress whom I respect making a very bad cosmetic decision.

[AudienceofOne]

Ok, I love that fake cop show that Alicia is always watching.  The Stag standing behind the body. . . . . .

 

 

 

What was the hilarious line in the post-show discussion panel? They detailed all the game changing things from the episode and it included "the yellow arm MOVED".

[dr pepper]

Agreed with most of the complaints about Alicia's character arc, especially the last 2 seasons.

 

And i blame Jacob. He used to keep that show in line with his unpacking of everyone's inner thoughts and his philosophical commentary on the meaning of events.

 

But then, TWOP went down and he didn't come over here to continue. So the writers felt free to screw around.

 

Good Wife. Bad Jacob.

Oh, and can we please get Darkness at Noon as a web series? It wouldn't have to be a full length show, just give us each episode as a long recap punctuated by 30 second to 2 minute video excerpts, It coud even be hosted here!

[Big Bad Wolf]

If that's true, then why was Peter apparently paying for sex during that same period?

 

I would think that a man like Peter would consider paying a prostitute for sex totally different to blackmailing a woman to sleep with him. The former involves a woman who has made a choice to exchange sex for money, the latter involves forcing a woman to do something she really doesn't want to do. 

[Brookside]

How many sharks have been jumped over this season?

[Kel Varnsen]

Why didn't Peters opponent know about the abortion?

That is what I didn't get. I mean doesn't Peter have political enemies who would love to take him down? If this is something that happened months ago how come no one has found out about it? Plus if US politics are that dirty, how come people aren't hammering Peter about his Mother-in-law and his brother-in-law if those are potential scandals?

 

Not to mention if whoever did the research is good enough for find out about a confidential medical procedure, how come they couldn't find out more about Alicia and Will?

[LadyMustang65]

My problem with them knowing about the abortion is how did they know?  As pointed out above, that is confidential information and should not be able to be found out unless Nissa or her parents were talking about it publicly, which I have trouble believing.  I get so angry sometimes because I can't even call the doctor's office to ask a question about my kid's medical issue that I already know about (and for whose treatment I am paying) because it violates HIPPA regulations.  My kids are now over 18, so they each had to sign a form giving the doctor's office permission to talk to me about things.  And even then, depending on who I get when I call, they still won't answer my questions.  So how do total strangers get this kind of information?

[mwcdeb8r]

 

PACs are typically set-up by shell corporations, LLCs, entitled along the lines of "Citizens for Reformed Justice" or whatever.  Anyone, e.g. Castro, can do their research and discover that the backer is Bishop.  Although Eli's correct that they can not have direct contact with and/or influence the PAC, they'll obviously use surrogates to do their own oppo research and keep tabs on the group.

Well, all of this is certainly true, rules are different with Super PACS, especially after the Citizens United ruling. If he started a 527 or 501©4 (which are diffrent types of Super Pacs and are also non-profits), they are not required to disclose donors to the FEC. And Bishop is smart enough to do something like that, to effectively hide himself from the prying eyes of Castro.

 

I really liked Alicia's flirtation with Finn, for exactly some of the reasons some of you didn't. I like that it doesn't have all the tension and drama of her relationships with Peter and Will. It seems like she has fun with him, totally lights up. Plus I think Matthew Goode is cute.

[alexvillage]

 

How many sharks have been jumped over this season?

I din't have much to add to the mess this episode was (and the season, so far)

What you said is enough