maraleia October 1, 2014 Share October 1, 2014 In order for Fitz to make the biggest impact with his State of the Union address on gun control, Cyrus sets out to recruit a power couple who are influential on the issue. Meanwhile, Mellie’s personal struggle gets national attention. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/
Guest October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 So how did everyone take Cyrus's threat. In telling Olivia that he would tell Fitz she called every day, was he threatening to lie or tell the truth? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432379
bmoore4026 October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Down right apropos that MacArthur Park played at the end. Both figuratively (in Olivia and Jake's case) and symbolically (Cyrus can't take the loneliness after being with James for so long and he'll never have a guy like that again.) :( Gay prostitute Michael is hot, though, even if he's working for the Wicked Witch of Washington. And poor Mellie continues her descent down the Mary Todd staircase. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432399
Guest Accused Dingo October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) I had a thought while watching this episode. "I might actually have voted for Fitzgerald Grant." I liked him. Its not him I hate. Its the Fitz/Olivia pairing that grates. I actually like him when he is not mooning over Olivia. Does Olivia know the definition of the term "booty call?" Gay prostitute Michael is hot, though, even if he's working for the Wicked Witch of Washington. Yes he is. It looks like Rosen has finally learned how to play the game. Use those scary black op files to get ahead. I really liked Abby's speech to Millie. I know I am in the minority around here but I like Quinn. I also like Huck. Not always sure if I like them as a couple but damn do they have chemistry...the weird kind that I appreciate. Edited October 3, 2014 by Accused Dingo 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432420
SimoneS October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 David can be the new Edgar Hoover keeping files on everyone so that he can blackmail them. Cyrus is lonely so I can see him falling for the sex worker and then having him killed when he finds that he was set up. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432429
TarHeelTeacher October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Mellie remains the only one I care about. She breaks my heart. I wish she had thrown Abby off the damn balcony. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432443
wanderingstar October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Can Quinn and Huck find the nearest fire and die in it? *pleaseandthankyou* 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432463
jschoolgirl October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I turned it off three minutes in, when the New Mexico couple were raging at one another. I might check in here to see how Mellie is, but I'm pretty much done with this. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432527
Eolivet October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Down right apropos that MacArthur Park played at the end. I actually thought it was a bizarre choice, as the lyrics "All that sweet green icing melting down" evoke some pretty odd images for a sex/attempted sex montage. The scene with Cyrus and Mellie about grief and loss was good. Those two generally elevate the material they're given, and this was no exception. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432566
Ohmo October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I had a thought while watching this episode. "I might actually have voted for Fitzgerald Grant." I liked him. Its not him I hate. Its the Fitz/Olivia pairing that grates. I actually like him when he is not mooning over Olivia. Yes, I like the State of the Union speech-giving Fitz. I like the Fitz who told the Secret Service guy to get out and then tended to Mellie. i love Olivia when she's being the capable fixer. I absolutely loathe Olivia and Fitz when they're together as a couple. And poor Mellie continues her descent down the Mary Todd staircase. I actually shed a tear when she crumpled in front of the Secret Service guy. Since there had been so much talk about her wearing a dress to the State of the Union, I thought she was about to take the dress off in front of the guy as soon as she kicked off her shoes. I was momentarily relieved when that didn't happen, but it got to me when she started sobbing in Fitz's arms. Team Mellie all the way! Bellamy Young is so terrific! 17 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432648
msani19 October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I hate to be completely shallow but if anyone can identify those boots Liv was wearing in that scene with Jake, I will be forever grateful! 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432713
Guest October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 The scene with Cyrus and Mellie about grief and loss was good. Those two generally elevate the material they're given, and this was no exception. I was too busy thinking that maybe Cyrus would have had a little bit of a point he weren't Cyrus. But then again, I can't remember half of the who knows what about which conspiracy and was pretty sure Cyrus had killed his husband until I went back and looked it up and I guess he didn't. I really don't like B613. Its the poisonous tree from which all of the storylines I hate fell from to rot. Now I'm stuck with some version of Pope and Associates where the only associates are B613 trained assassins and all I have to look forward to is the return of a third B613 assassin for a love triangle that will end with implements of torture. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432722
Dusty October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I wasn't really paying attention to the wheelchair couple so when I quickly glanced back at the screen I had to do a double take because for a split second I thought it was Carol Vassey and Mike Burton together. Alas, it was not meant to be. That would've been cool though. I don't like Portia De Rossi's bouffant. And I care nothing for Huck and Quinn. I was happy when I saw Jon Tenney in the credits. I've liked him since Brooklyn South...anyone? Bueller? Moving on. It's too bad he decided to go the way of the bouffant. I honestly can't remember her name and have too many tabs open as it is to look it up. There goes that happy ending for Mellie. I liked Fitz during his speech. I would've liked it better if Olivia had nothing to do with it but I'll take whatever like I can with Fitz that I can get at this point. I really like how Fitz will sit in the car with a bag of chips while Mellie does her grave thing. I really liked how Fitz went to Mellie when she collapsed after the speech and even apologized! I can like that guy. Which makes it so damn frustrating to know that it will not last. It just won't. The stupid Olivia/Fitz train is just waiting at the station to take off to go in another stupid circle. Mellie. Oh Mellie. Bellamy Young is just really bringing it this season. I can't take it. She's just breaking my heart. I don't even really know what more to say about it right now. It's the best part of the show. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432730
CleoCaesar October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 After a clunker episode of Grey's tonight I was only half-watching Scandal. This show's appallingly bad dialogue and acting doesn't even rile me up anymore; I just feel secondhand embarrassment for the actors. After Cyrus launched into yet another blowhard speech and went "the president of these...United...States..." I just turned the TV off. I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? Why is Shonda peddling this erroneous statistic? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432738
lunastartron October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 During a discussion with a friend the other day about this show, I noted that the writing is so bad that it's difficult to believe that it's unintentional. I find myself trying to contextualize and/or shoehorn most of the narrative into elaborate/unlikely schemas (ie maybe Olivia's gluttony for masochism is really a political allegory on the part of liberal showrunners about minorities who elect to associate with the GOP) because, well, the nonsensical character arcs and constant inconsistency can't be part of an earnest storytelling effort, right? To wit: Olivia's repeated references to the gun control advocacy couple as "terrible people." Uh, okay. Because frustration with singular challenges as a married couple and a desire to make some money is totally more reprehensible than disenfranchising the American electorate, covering up multiple murders, and committing adultery. I've never liked Abby since her need to define everything as an extension of her own experience proved so compulsive that she chased the designated pick onto the elevator during those marriage arrangement negotiations and scared her away since all political marriages have to be abusive because her own proved to be. Her lecture to Mellie was eye roll-inducing. Jacqueline Kennedy led the nation in mourning for her husband because the American people had just lost their President, and also because she understood the images and events that transpired in the days immediately post-assassination would constitute a major aspect of his legacy. Incomparable in most respects to the death of a child. Mellie should have indeed thrown her off of the balcony. On the other hand, I'm here for anyone telling Liv to fuck off, and glad to see Abby step up to the plate on that account. Bellamy Young deserves an Emmy for simply managing to stay afloat amid the shipwreck. She was riveting and yet wonderfully subtle during Mellie's performance within a performance at the SOTU. I thought Bellamy managed to convey the reality that Mellie's grief had to conform to the "tragic but beautiful" standard in order to be acceptable to the public. I miss Kate Burton. I hope Sally returns in some capacity as an ally to Portia de Rossi's character and the RNC. In terms of narrative discontinuity, Mellie previously voiced strong support for Second Amendment rights, and the VP seemed much more aligned with Fitz's new hardline stance on gun control. Relieved to see Cyrus's trick was literally that. Aesthetic differentials seem to figure in a lot of Shonda's work, but that would have been just too much to swallow on the order of Cyrus's sad-sack lament about how people aren't adequately sympathetic to the loss of the husband on whom he once commissioned a hit. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432740
Blakeston October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) I know this show isn't realistic, but there are still certain things that just really bug me. Don't even get me started on how silly it is that "No Skills" Abby is now the White House Press Secretary (she was a dismal failure when she tried to step in for Olivia last season, and Cyrus thought she was a joke, and the president doesn't care enough about her to call her by the right name - so who hired her, exactly?). And why is the press secretary being treated like she's the Deputy Chief of Staff, or something like that, where she and Cyrus are a two-person strategy team? And the public is so bent out of shape over the photos of Mellie? She may have looked goofy stuffing her face in the photos, but would the American people really be so horrified that a grieving mother sat by her son's grave, and ate some food while she was there? The tabloids that printed the photos would be pilloried, and the public would rally behind her. I also don't buy that people would believe that the president's son just happened to get bacterial meningitis and die from it. The odds of that happening to someone in the U.S. are positively miniscule. Barely anyone would believe it was just an enormous coincidence. And finally, Fitz is going to stand up there and basically say the Second Amendment is crap? Not just that gun control laws should be stronger, but that the right to bear arms is an idea we should abandon? I really hope we're not expected to believe that his speech was popular. Right or wrong, it would be political suicide for a president from any party to go that far. To wit: Olivia's repeated references to the gun control advocacy couple as "terrible people." Uh, okay. Because frustration with singular challenges as a married couple and a desire to make some money is totally more reprehensible than disenfranchising the American electorate, covering up multiple murders, and committing adultery. While I certainly agree that Olivia is worse than the husband and the wife, I think her "terrible people" comment was about the husband telling his wife that she's worse than the Taliban, and the wife mocking her husband's torture. Not about them having marital strife, or wanting to make money. Edited October 3, 2014 by Blakeston 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432821
topanga October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 What did Fitz mean when he told Olivia "you at least owe me that."? Was he talking about Jerry's death, or something more personal between the two of them? I forget if he knows or suspects that Olivia's father was involved with Jerry's sudden illness. I can't figure Jake out. On the one hand, he's this (super cute) schmoopy and pensive guy who wants to run away with Olivia to live on an island, and his sensitive heart is broken because she only wants him for sex. On the other hand, he's a hardened assassin who conned his way into heading B613, where he continued to kill people without hesitation. Someone said he brought down B613. Did he? Or did the organization simply self-implode--or go even farther underground? I've enjoyed these two episodes so far. I told my husband that Shonda has toned down the crazy this season. His response? "Just wait. It'll be back." Sadly, I think he's right. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432826
90PercentGravity October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Was the sex worker Luke Wilson? I didn't like the choice of MacArthur Park for the end. I thought it was distracting and took me completely out of the scene. I like this show when there is no Olivia/Fitz angst and hate it when there is. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432903
jjj October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Does Olivia know the definition of the term "booty call?" Of course she does: put on boots, make a call. Keep boots on. It really bugged me that they had so many green leafy trees looking out from the balcony. There are no leafy trees in the middle of winter, when the State of the Union Address is given. I love "MacArthur Park", but agree that it took me out of the drama. Just an instrumental version would have been more effective -- the theme of the text was right on. "I'll never have that recipe again." 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-432954
Blakeston October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Was the sex worker Luke Wilson? No, that was Matthew Del Negro. I know him from The Sopranos, where he played Carmela's cousin Brian, the financial advisor. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433012
Oblique Angle October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 And the public is so bent out of shape over the photos of Mellie? She may have looked goofy stuffing her face in the photos, but would the American people really be so horrified that a grieving mother sat by her son's grave, and ate some food while she was there? The tabloids that printed the photos would be pilloried, and the public would rally behind her. I think it was a combination of how long it's been going on and how shabbily she was dressed. The American public is not accustomed to seeing members of the First Family in such a state of disarray. I'm wondering if we're going to find out that Cyrus was behind those photos being taken. And finally, Fitz is going to stand up there and basically say the Second Amendment is crap? Not just that gun control laws should be stronger, but that the right to bear arms is an idea we should abandon? I really hope we're not expected to believe that his speech was popular. Right or wrong, it would be political suicide for a president from any party to go that far. Yeah, Shonda has taken plenty of flights of fancy with this show but that one is bordering on dystopian sci-fi. What did Fitz mean when he told Olivia "you at least owe me that."? I was wondering that too and was taken aback that he--the cheater who is staying married for the foreseeable future--had the nerve to say something like that to his former mistress. But whatever, it worked and Olivia once again did his bidding. As far as I'm concerned, she owed him nothing and the "debt" should be considered paid now. Ugh, Fitz is such a self-entitled d-bag. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433064
random chance October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I agree that in real life that speech would have been political suicide, but it's all part of the liberal-demopublican Pres fantasyland that SR has got going on. I [...] was pretty sure Cyrus had killed his husband until I went back and looked it up and I guess he didn't. OH. I thought he did. I thought the show was asking us to feel sorry for him because he was so lonely since he killed his husband. This one was a little ho-hum to me, but I blame that plate of fried chicken more than the writing. I seriously couldn't concentrate on anything at all after that, because the fried chicken looked so damn good. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433091
Artsda October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Fitz has every right in his mind to tell her "you owe me that." Fitz knows that Maya killed Jerry. Olivia knows and believes the same. To both of them, Maya was released because Fitz let the terrorist go because Olivia asked him too. Granted, he's a dumbass who let Olivia's terrorist mother go because she asked him to, but she did ask him too. So Maya's release, Maya being out on the run able to kill. All that leads back to Olivia wanting her set free. So to Fitz and to Olivia too since she gave in (and she ran out of Washington unable to face Fitz during his grief), she owes him. Mellie's the rockstar of the show. She was amazing. Loved her conversation with Cyrus about loss, her and Abby and her breakdown at the end. Fitz's speech was great too! Although he seems more Democrat than Republican. Jake's a joke, saying the word booty call a dozen times is great use of a character. He's busy? He has no job. So how did everyone take Cyrus's threat. In telling Olivia that he would tell Fitz she called every day, was he threatening to lie or tell the truth? I think tell the truth. She and Cyrus both wouldn't want him to know that, because it would hinder Fitz 2.0. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433094
ProneToCheerfulnes October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Long, longtime TWOP lurker and total forum newbie so please be kind (I already typoed my name LOL). Disappointed that Olivia is still so stunted she can't admit Jake is her boyfriend. Mellie is having a nervous breakdown, but I am also intrigued at the idea that she and Fitz grow closer this season. He did love her at some point after all, and it would provide some real and desperately needed tension to the Olitz (?) pairing. One thing that really stands out for me is the fact that Fitz was almost assassinated and no one mentions it! Ever. Not in the re-election campaign and not when his son died.... and not when he is stumping for gun control. He was shot in the head for goodness sake and I naively thought the effects were so lasting that his subsequent toxic personality change was a legitimate part of the drama. Admittedly I've been hoovering seasons all in one go, so maybe the show is best enjoyed that way? So far, so snooze... 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433169
2KllMckngBrd October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) And the crap just kept on rolling. TGIT my ass. Grey's sucked. Scandal sucked. This was lazy, boring tv. I can't even remember what the b story was about. I will say that whatever it was at some point Abby or Cyrus had a throw-away line about the case/client of the week fucking up their b-roll for after Fitz' speech, and I tweeted how meta "b-role, b story". Only way to amuse myself while this crap was on. And I call bullshit on plastic Abby. If I remember from way back, when we got a little backstory on her, and how she came to be at OPA, and be a gladiator, wasn't she the abused wife? I think the story went that she had married into a rich family, and her husband, the senator, was kicking her ass (not trying to be callous, just frustrated), and Olivia extricated from that situation, after he almost beat Abby to death the last time. I think there was even a scene where she was worried about if he ever found her, what would happen. So Abby was ride or die where Olivia's was concerned after that. So let me get this straight. Now she can be on tv, almost daily, covered by how many countless reporters and cameras. You don't say. Forget her qualifications and preparedness. What happen to her being in OPA witness protection? Whoever frosted Lizziebear's hair, and Cyrus'...well whatever the hell is on the top of his head...they must be found, and, well, I'll leave that to the imagination. No where in nature, or a Crayola box, does that color occur. Mellie remains the only one I care about. She breaks my heart. I wish she had thrown Abby off the damn balcony. I am not, and have never been, a card carrying member of the NRA, or the Mellie fan club. What I have always liked though, was Bellamy Young's acting, and the batshit crazy fun of the Mellie character. And she is working her butt off for the supporting actress Emmy nom better be coming for completely switching gears. She is playing the hell out of the grieving mother. When she fell out after the State of the Union I wanted to cry for Mellie. As for that unnecessary Abby/Mellie scene. She was the complete wrong character and actress to put in that scene, if the scene was even necessary at all. I was hoping Mellie would get up and slap the shit out of Abby. The one place you wanna steer clear of is commenting on how 1 grieves a dead child if you have never been a parent. Especially given all the complications where Jerry is concerned, and of course, you're on a balcony. They could have covered up her "accidental" tumble. They've covered up much, much more in this administration. Besides, doesn't Liv always "owe Mellie", to quote Mellie. Edited October 3, 2014 by 2KllMckngBrd 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433174
ProneToCheerfulnes October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Fitz has every right in his mind to tell her "you owe me that." Fitz knows that Maya killed Jerry. Olivia knows and believes the same. To both of them, Maya was released because Fitz let the terrorist go because Olivia asked him too. Granted, he's a dumbass who let Olivia's terrorist mother go because she asked him to, but she did ask him too. So Maya's release, Maya being out on the run able to kill. All that leads back to Olivia wanting her set free. So to Fitz and to Olivia too since she gave in (and she ran out of Washington unable to face Fitz during his grief), she owes him. Mellie's the rockstar of the show. She was amazing. Loved her conversation with Cyrus about loss, her and Abby and her breakdown at the end. Fitz's speech was great too! Although he seems more Democrat than Republican. Jake's a joke, saying the word booty call a dozen times is great use of a character. He's busy? He has no job. I think tell the truth. She and Cyrus both wouldn't want him to know that, because it would hinder Fitz 2.0. Olivia does bug with her "woe is me" attitude about the whole thing. She was the actor, not the victim. Sad that we live in a time when one can say the President's speech sounded too much or not enough like one party or another. Pre- GWB's second term, reasonableness was the norm. Republicans abolished Slavery we must remember! Every party has been progressive. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433177
ProneToCheerfulnes October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) I know this show isn't realistic, but there are still certain things that just really bug me. Don't even get me started on how silly it is that "No Skills" Abby is now the White House Press Secretary (she was a dismal failure when she tried to step in for Olivia last season, and Cyrus thought she was a joke, and the president doesn't care enough about her to call her by the right name - so who hired her, exactly?). And why is the press secretary being treated like she's the Deputy Chief of Staff, or something like that, where she and Cyrus are a two-person strategy team? Abby always came off as resentful and entitled and competitive with Olivia. I guess she parlayed her talking head persona from the campaign (which was another WTF) + her OPA credentials to slide into the spot. As someone in her new profession (not in the US), she completely messed up that press conference (not that Olivia's answer was the way to go either). I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? Why is Shonda peddling this erroneous statistic? Sadly no. Edited October 3, 2014 by ProneToCheerfulnes Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433182
Julia October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I was too busy thinking that maybe Cyrus would have had a little bit of a point he weren't Cyrus. But then again, I can't remember half of the who knows what about which conspiracy and was pretty sure Cyrus had killed his husband until I went back and looked it up and I guess he didn't. He didn't explicitly send a hit man after him the way he did before his court appearance, but he did set the whole thing in motion, and he was the one using B613 as a clean up crew for his administration, so he kind of did, JMO. I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? Nope. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433268
MrsRafaelBarba October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 See what you're doing Shonda, the Epic retconning of Mellie is complete. Ditto for Olivia's character assassination. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433343
topanga October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 One thing that really stands out for me is the fact that Fitz was almost assassinated and no one mentions it! Ever. Not in the re-election campaign and not when his son died.... and not when he is stumping for gun control. He was shot in the head for goodness sake and I naively thought the effects were so lasting that his subsequent toxic personality change was a legitimate part of the drama. Wow, I'd completely forgotten about that. No sh*t it should have been mentioned in Fitz's big speech about gun control. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433371
Empress1 October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike?No, and that .77 figure only applies to what white women make in relation to white men; women of color make even less, and men of color make less than white men. "Surprisingly," the racial component of paycheck inequality is rarely discussed.I'm confused about Jake. I recall Olivia expressly saying she was in love with someone else before they flew off into the sunset; maybe he thinks she's over it? I don't feel sorry for Cyrus either; he almost had his husband killed and he literally pimped him out to the VP's husband. I don't recall him ever treating James well. Agree that Bellamy Young is killing it this season. When her pearls fell to the ground and she followed, my eyes welled up. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433417
Good Queen Jane October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 It really bugged me that they had so many green leafy trees looking out from the balcony. There are no leafy trees in the middle of winter, when the State of the Union Address is given. This. It bugged me both last episode and this one. Two months after the November election is January, as is when the State of the Union address is given. January in DC is cold, gloomy, and brown. No way would anyone be sitting outside on a balcony eating fried chicken, especially not in PJ's. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433550
CofCinci October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I'm just tuning in for the Mellie show at this point. She's killing it. But let this be the last week for moping. Time to give her a plot instead of collapsing on the floor. The CGI/Green Screen backgrounds are ruining most scenes. Just because the technology exists doesn't mean you have to use it in every other scene. I wouldn't be surprised if the fried chicken and Oliva's "fuck me boots" were computer enhanced. I'm in the minority, but I wanted Huck and Quinn to kiss. Either end them forever or put them together. Just pick one theme and stick with it. I'd like to see Cyrus and the prostitute Michael become a real couple. Hooker with a heart of gold? We haven't seen that in a while. They'd make the perfect DC couple. Abbey is Jan Brady-ing it up these days. They're building to to the Abbey/Olivia show down. But just like with Jake, I couldn't care less. I'm just tuning in for the Mellie show at this point. She's killing it. But let this be the last week for moping. Time to give her a plot instead of collapsing on the floor. The CGI/Green Screen backgrounds are ruining most scenes. Just because the technology exists doesn't mean you have to use it in every other scene. I wouldn't be surprised if the fried chicken and Oliva's "fuck me boots" were computer enhanced. I'm in the minority, but I wanted Huck and Quinn to kiss. Either end them forever or put them together. Just pick one theme and stick with it. No Ross and Rachel shit for these two creepy fucks, who get aroused at the memory of pulling teeth. I'd like to see Cyrus and the prostitute Michael become a real couple. Hooker with a heart of gold? We haven't seen that in a while. They'd make the perfect DC couple. Abbey is Jan Brady-ing it up these days. They're building to to the Abbey/Olivia show down. But just like with Jake, I couldn't care less. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433603
Aethera October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Having just rewatched the end of West Wing yet again, seeing Matt Del Negro like that freaked me out. He's Bram! Nice to see 2 late-season WWers in a single episode, though. Bellamy Young is awesome. She's really doing amazing work with weird material. Most of the rest of the show, just shut up already. I actually would vastly prefer Fitz & Mellie make it work, Liv matures in any way but I don't see it happening. And I am sick of B613 even though we haven't even heard them much. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433770
CleoCaesar October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? Nope. Huh. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433864
marceline October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) This show is so much more tolerable when Fitz and Liv are apart and acting like adults. Bellamy Young is definitely this show's MVP. Her fall to the floor was just so Tennessee Williams. I felt for the Secret Service guy. I always wonder what the protocol is for something like that. Was Andrew sitting behind FItz at the SOTU? I need Andrew and Mellie to reconnect. She deserves something that hers. That said, yes Mels, you lost a child but you have two others who need you. One is just a toddler. Don't make the same mistake. Go be a mother to your child while you can. Huck/Quinn? Nope. Don't care. Still skeevy. Liv/Jake. Whatever. David Rosen? Welcome to the dark side. His speech about how Liv really has no loyalty was spot on. She ruined his life and she's still ruining it. I said this last week. Shonda seems to be using Scandal to address real life political issues WAY more this season. I'm curious how long it will be before she attracts the attention of the same right-wing sites that have thrown tantrums about The Good Wife over the years. Edited October 3, 2014 by marceline 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433873
Mama No Life October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 This episode was crap. I like New Fitz, and I enjoyed Abby's speech to Mellie, but the rest of it was absurd. If Mellie needs to grieve, which I get, then go to Camp David and get your shit together. Or a hospital. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433884
SevenStars October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 After a clunker episode of Grey's tonight I was only half-watching Scandal. This show's appallingly bad dialogue and acting doesn't even rile me up anymore; I just feel secondhand embarrassment for the actors. After Cyrus launched into yet another blowhard speech and went "the president of these...United...States..." I just turned the TV off. I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? Why is Shonda peddling this erroneous statistic? What statistic have you read that debunked this theory, because the recent one I read, had white women earning 77 cent, Asian women 90 cent, black women 65 cent and Latino women 55. So this have nothing to do with feminists but facts. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433918
Ohmo October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Fitz has every right in his mind to tell her "you owe me that." Fitz knows that Maya killed Jerry. Olivia knows and believes the same. To both of them, Maya was released because Fitz let the terrorist go because Olivia asked him too. Granted, he's a dumbass who let Olivia's terrorist mother go because she asked him to, but she did ask him too. So Maya's release, Maya being out on the run able to kill. All that leads back to Olivia wanting her set free. So to Fitz and to Olivia too since she gave in (and she ran out of Washington unable to face Fitz during his grief), she owes him. Agree to all of that. Admittedly, the events of last season blur together a bit for me, but Maya's release also set about Olivia's dad returning to his B-613 ways and hatching this plot to have Jerry killed. Fitz enabled both of Olivia's bat-shit crazy parents to roam off the reservation and play their twisted, murderous games because they're Olivia's parents, and Fitz knows that Olivia has feelings for them on some level. That lame-ass crap about Rowan having power over Fitz because of B613 doesn't fly with me. Rowan has power over Fitz because Rowan is Olivia's father Mellie is having a nervous breakdown, but I am also intrigued at the idea that she and Fitz grow closer this season. He did love her at some point after all, and it would provide some real and desperately needed tension to the Olitz (?) pairing. I like that this brings more balance to the show (at least for me). Though not a fan of Olitz, I can accept the fact that people do fall out of love. Fitz could feel that way about Mellie. I can also acknowledge that Mellie has done some awful things, but unlike Fitz himself and Cyrus, Mellie has not murdered anyone (unless I'm forgetting something, which could be possible). Yet, Fitz was absolutely horrid to Mellie. The level of hatred toward her just didn't jive with what he himself did and what Fitz apparently still feels toward Cyrus. I can no longer keep track of all of the stuff that Cyrus has done. Fitz doesn't know all about all of it, but he knows about some of it, and Cyrus is still by his side. I say all of that to get to the point that I needed to see Fitz be compassionate to Mellie as a human being. I know that he no longer loves her, and she clearly knows that, even in her grief. However, we were told for so long that Fitzgerald Grant was this decent man. The man I saw last night was a decent man, While I agree with those who know this is temporary, and I will eventually be stuck with more Olitz, I appreciate what I saw last night, however brief I know it to be. See what you're doing Shonda, the Epic retconning of Mellie is complete. I don't see it as a retcon. Mellie has not been a saint. I think that we are seeing the true devestation of a character. All of Mellie's schemes, no matter how well-intentioned she thought they were, intereacted with a whole bunch of different events by other people, and now she truly has lost everything. her marriage. her child, and now her very self. I attribute a great deal of this to Bellamy. I don't think Mellie would come off nearly as sympathetic as she does in the hands of someone else. I understand that Mellie is not pure as the driven snow. She does not wear the white hat, but I'm rooting for her, and I'm rooting hard. I hope that we see a scene where Mellie becomes aware of Hal being the one to have infected Jerry. Given the dynamic that existed between Mellie and Hal, there's got to be some fallout from that. I'm going to ask a stupid question about the pearls. I don't wear necklaces often, and I don't own a string of pearls. What makes pearls fall individually like that? Do most necklaces do that if you pull at them? Finally, what did Mellie do? Break the clasp? 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433928
Frankie5Angels October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Republicans abolished Slavery we must remember! Every party has been progressive. That was 149 years ago, so I'm not sure how that is relevant to now, and that's not even mentioning how that is a whitewashing of history (no pun intended). The Democrats were once infiltrated by the Dixiecrats who found a new home in the Republican party, especially after they implemented the Southern Strategy. They have ridden that misogynistic and racist horse to this very day. Also, Republicans have since disavowed the end of slavery what with some of them being signatories to a document declaring that black people were better off during slavery. Fitz couldn't possibly be elected even in the 1970s, let alone now. His election and ability to suffocate a Supreme Court justice are equally improbable, but they are both real, so we have to run with it. I am only here for Mellie these days. I've always loved her the most and Bellamy Young is slaying. I've also always thought that she was the best actress on the show. The character and the actress are so good. Did anyone think last night's "Lenny Skutniks" were based on Gabby Giffords and her husband? I thought of them immediately when they gave the background of the characters. If so, that is really shitty of Shonda. I forget (already) if the paycheck fairness issue was this week's topic or last week's. Hasn't the "women earn 77 cents on every dollar men make" been debunked as a myth by feminists and non-feminists alike? No, that's not true. And, it is actually worse than it is portrayed in the media because even in cases where white men should be earning less (having less education, not living on the coasts, and working in typically lower paying jobs), they still make more than white women, who're the women who earn the most. I know that there has been an insidious lie that white men earn less than Asian men, but that has been revealed as a lie. If you're interested in looking at the wage breakdown across racial and gender lines, especially as they intersect, here's a study. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433941
CleoCaesar October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 What statistic have you read that debunked this theory, because the recent one I read, had white women earning 77 cent, Asian women 90 cent, black women 65 cent and Latino women 55. So this have nothing to do with feminists but facts. It's more that the 77 cents figure is inaccurate. It's more like 91 cents. Which is still a gap, but not as big as widely reported. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433945
Primetimer October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Fitz invites a Hero Couple to the State of the Union, but like everyone else on this show, they are terrible people. Read the story 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433953
Spartan Girl October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Mellie chowing down the fried chicken while laughing at Fitz for pretending that her behavior wasn't really about a reflection on him was nothing short of amazing. But my heart broke for her when she broke down after the speech. Fitz continuing to call Abby "Gabby" is a healthy reminder that he's still an asshole. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-433998
La Tortuga October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I thought it was interesting that the producers/casting went almost out of their way to hire, costume, and style an actor to be almost identical to a young Mitt Romney, and have him play a gay prostitute. Well, maybe "interesting" isn't the right word. I was cracking up. Bellamy Young continues to captivate. I don't think I'd still be watching the show without her. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434078
Oblique Angle October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 What makes pearls fall individually like that? Do most necklaces do that if you pull at them Well-made pearl necklaces have tiny knots in between each individual pearl to keep them from rubbing against each other and ruining the finish. When they're broken the pearls will not fall individually and the knotting actually prevents what seems to have happened to Mellie's necklace. I find it hard to believe that she'd be wearing a pearl strand of less than excellent quality and I was surprised to see that moment. I guess it's possible she was wearing high-end costume jewelry; whatever, it's probably more dramatic to have the pearls go rolling around on the floor apart like that than just falling as a big clump. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434106
Sidney October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 Well-made pearl necklaces have tiny knots in between each individual pearl to keep them from rubbing against each other and ruining the finish. When they're broken the pearls will not fall individually and the knotting actually prevents what seems to have happened to Mellie's necklace. I find it hard to believe that she'd be wearing a pearl strand of less than excellent quality and I was surprised to see that moment. I guess it's possible she was wearing high-end costume jewelry; whatever, it's probably more dramatic to have the pearls go rolling around on the floor apart like that than just falling as a big clump. LMAO. This show, this show, this show.............. Kerry was really phoning it in. Not a good sign for the lead character. I miss Sally. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434181
Sidney October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 What did Fitz mean when he told Olivia "you at least owe me that."? Was he talking about Jerry's death, or something more personal between the two of them? I forget if he knows or suspects that Olivia's father was involved with Jerry's sudden illness. I could be wrong, but I think he was talking about her leaving during the time he was grieving for his son. He had already told her he didn't blame her. But who knows where Shonnda is going with this. He might blame her on some level. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434208
Sidney October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 I can't figure Jake out. On the one hand, he's this (super cute) schmoopy and pensive guy who wants to run away with Olivia to live on an island, and his sensitive heart is broken because she only wants him for sex. He sound so stupid. I'm glad he's doing something other than waiting on his next booty call from Olivia. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434234
jjj October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) What was Jake's big discovery with the receipts? That Charlie killed Harrison? I could not figure out what we were supposed to be seeing there, or the significance of Charlie in the restaurant. Edited October 3, 2014 by jjj 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434258
topanga October 3, 2014 Share October 3, 2014 (edited) The CGI/Green Screen backgrounds are ruining most scenes. Just because the technology exists doesn't mean you have to use it in every other scene. I wouldn't be surprised if the fried chicken and Oliva's "fuck me boots" were computer enhanced. I know, right? I find myself trying to blur my eyes so I won't notice how bad the background is, but that takes me out of the scene. But looking at that fried chicken made me hungry. Abbey is Jan Brady-ing it up these days. They're building to to the Abbey/Olivia show down. But just like with Jake, I couldn't care less. Olivia, Olivia, Olivia!! Since joining OPA, Abby has consistently held ambivalent love-hate feelings towards Olivia. And I think her feelings have merit. "I love you because you saved me from my abusive husband, so why won't you let me help you in your time of need? I thought we were friends, but I'm clearly just your project and your flunky. So now I hate you. You abandon OPA and your gladiators, and then you swoop back into town to plan Harrison's funeral. And you get mad at me for not turning cartwheels when I see you? Now I really hate you. I've been helping Cyrus and the President hold the country together, and you swoop into town, stealing the President's ear, back-door criticizing my press conference, and making Cryus and Fitz lose their minds just to be near you?" --I agree with you, CofCinci. It's going down. I know you don't care, but if the writers handle it well, this conflict has the potential to be one of the most intruguing themes of the season. A former Gladiator stands toe-to-toe with Olivia and asks her who the hell she thinks she is? I know the writers tried to do it last year with Quinn, but it sucked. Let's see if they do better with Abby. Edited October 3, 2014 by topanga 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/15712-s04e02-the-state-of-the-union/#findComment-434264
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