S04.E16: Books

[chitowngirl]

A debate over a controversial book leads Ava to remove it from the library, but some parents push for its return.
 

Airdate March 5, 2025 on ABC, next day Hulu

[Galileo908]

"That song is from 2005."
"I was born in 2018."

Good god. I knew a cold open about "oldies" was gonna lead to jokes like that, but I still didn't need to be attacked by that. "What were iPods like?" First of all, how dare you?

Krystal is back, and of course she's the book banning Christian. I loved the book speakeasy, and when the show found an excuse to shoehorn Tariq into the episode. Just how long was he waiting to bust down that pile of books like the Kool-Aid Man? lol

Something I learned from the subreddit: Channel 6 is the ABC channel in Philly, while Channel 3 is CBS. And that they don't call it the symphony, they call it the orchestra.

Somehow not surprised that Mr. Johnson was dishonorably discharged from the Salvation Army. And that he'd be the one to pull the fire alarm to get Captain Rob to show up for Melissa. I liked that that plotline finally went somewhere.

Interesting that they didn't resolve Gregory's plot about getting other jobs. They're definitely setting up a plotline where he and Janine move in together.

[Annber03]

"Okay, we're gonna play 'Hot Cross Buns' on the recorder."

Oh, god, that opening segment with Gregory and the kids. I related so much to him there. 

I also laughed at the "I don't even like channel six! I like channel three much better!" line, because "Abbott" airs on channel six here in our area. Channel three is our CBS affiliate :p. 

But man, did I cheer Barbara's "Duh!" reaction to the mom being like, "I guess I might've taken this a little too far." Can we get Barbara to say that to every parent who kicks up a ridiculous fuss about some book that they're not comfortable with? Same with her and Ava being like, "Then talk to your kid!"? I loved the two of them working together to stick up for the library and letting kids read whatever books they wanted, and I felt for Ava having to deal with the push/pull of the conflicting demands from the parents. 

I also like Barbara being sympathetic to this cause because she's no doubt all too aware of the controversies that have dogged the Bible throughout its history, and she certainly wouldn't want that book banned, so... 

But yeah. This isn't hard. A parent doesn't want their own child to read something, that's their choice as a parent. They don't get to make that call for other kids and their parents. Period. End of story. 

As for the other stories, Gregory getting a second job makes sense, and I sympathized with his struggle on the job hunt despite his qualifications. Hopefully this works out for him. 

And aw, Melissa, starting up a new relationship :). 

[Blakeston]

This was confusing. Krystle - the woman who recently paraded around the children with the words "slut" and "whore" emblazoned on her wardrobe - is now some book-banning reactionary?

I mean, it happens in real life, usually when people become religiously born again. I was surprised that they didn't give us an explanation like that.

My guess is that because Raven Goodwin's star is rising (starring opposite Travis Kelce on Grotesquerie), and she's clearly talented, Quinta and company wanted an excuse to bring her back, and they didn't concern themselves too much with consistency.

I thought the conflict was resolved way too easily. Off the top of my head, it would have been a lot more believable that Krystle would do a 180 like that if she found out that her daughter secretly read the book, and it gave her confidence.

[possibilities]

I feel a little bad for the date who is now getting stood up for the symphony. 

Edited March 6 by possibilities

[kathyk2]

I didn't like this episode as much as last week. Ava shouldn't have given in so easily. Krystle was being a hypocrite because she has no problem with profanity but she does with magic? I loved how supportive Janine was of Gregory it's clear she grew up poor. Why couldn't Tariq be this responsible when he was with Janine?

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, Galileo908 said:

"That song is from 2005."
"I was born in 2018."

Good god. I knew a cold open about "oldies" was gonna lead to jokes like that, but I still didn't need to be attacked by that. "What were iPods like?" First of all, how dare you?

It says a lot that Gregory willingly handed out the recorders rather than continue the oldies conversation. Those instruments are in instruments of torture.

[possibilities]

It annoyed me that when Janine realized that she spends less in a relationship than out of one, and that means Gregory is paying for her and struggling, that she didn't decide to pay her own way like an adult. 

 

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Krystle was being a hypocrite because she has no problem with profanity but she does with magic? 

I have relatives that are like this with their kids, so sadly, that didn't really surprise me. Hypiocritical, for sure, but that tends to be a recurring thing with people who try to regulate what others can read/watch/listen to. 

[kathyk2]

13 minutes ago, possibilities said:

It annoyed me that when Janine realized that she spends less in a relationship than out of one, and that means Gregory is paying for her and struggling, that she didn't decide to pay her own way like an adult. 

 

Gregory might pay for their dates since he has such a limited diet. We don't know how much his rent was being raised he could be fine with a small increase but not a large one. Janine paid for everything while she was with Tariq.

[Galileo908]

41 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Why couldn't Tariq be this responsible when he was with Janine?

Sometimes you need a kid that reads to you before you go to bed to experience some growth in your life.

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Galileo908 said:

 

Something I learned from the subreddit: Channel 6 is the ABC channel in Philly, while Channel 3 is CBS.

Yes, they've referenced real Channel 6 reporters on the show as well. 

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

My guess is that because Raven Goodwin's star is rising

I had no idea she played the teenage girl that a drugged out Liz Lemon mistook for Oprah on 30 Rock all those years ago.   

Edited March 6 by txhorns79

[Harvey]

It is so funny Gregory thinks a masters in education is this big thing. You can tell he has not much experience with job hunting.

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This was confusing. Krystle - the woman who recently paraded around the children with the words "slut" and "whore" emblazoned on her wardrobe - is now some book-banning reactionary?

I can see how she'd explain that. She's an adult. She can do what she likes. Her daughter is not an adult and needs to respect adults, esp Krystal, her mother. For instance, if her daughter, seeing her shirt, were to call Krystal a whore, then Krystal might say, "YOU do not call me a whore. I may call myself one, but you cannot." 

10 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I didn't like this episode as much as last week.

Last week's ep was a tough act to follow.

In the CO it was immediately clear what the kids would consider Oldies. Me, for instance.

So funny when that one girl was braiding Charlie's hair. "He's not even tender-headed."

I hadn't heard of 48 Laws of Power. I was just reading at Wikipedia. It's a very popular book at prisons. Some of the laws:

1. Never Put Too Much Trust In Friends, Learn How To Use Enemies

2. Conceal Your Intentions

3. Get Others To Do The Work For You, But Always Take The Credit

4. Make Other People Come To You-Use Bait If Necessary

But I love Tariq.

"Expecto No-Way-No."

"Y'all may not know this about me, but if I put my mind to it, I can be real annoying."

The book speakeasy was great. Loved the curtain that looked like a library shelf.

"Let's get rid of Everybody Poops, 'cause most days I don't. And that's a problem."

Krystal's sudden turnaround was not believable, but I'm still glad it was resolved.

Krystal: Well, I guess I may have taken this a little too far.
Barbara: DUH.

I also liked seeing the parents listening attentively to Roz reading the book. And then the one child whining, "Mom, can we go home now?"

As far as Gregory's money situation, yes, Janine should offer to pay sometimes. They need to move in together to save money. And the minute Tariq told Janine about the pizza deliverer, it was clear the guy was Gregory.

I'm glad Melissa and Captain Rob are exclusive now. I like that character, and I've always loved the actor. 

"Pulling a fire alarm is a federal offense. I'm going to have to arrest Mr Johnson now."

[Empress1]

13 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

As far as Gregory's money situation, yes, Janine should offer to pay sometimes. They need to move in together to save money. And the minute Tariq told Janine about the pizza deliverer, it was clear the guy was Gregory.

I don’t know why Gregory would want a second job with a lot of responsibility. Teaching is hard and time-consuming, so I’d think a more menial second job would be a good counter. (I mean, rest would be better, but…)

Janine, girl, do better. Take your man on dates. 

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

It annoyed me that when Janine realized that she spends less in a relationship than out of one, and that means Gregory is paying for her and struggling, that she didn't decide to pay her own way like an adult. 

Also Tariq was broke so I don’t know where this “I spend less money in relationships” thing comes from. Tariq being a deadbeat was well-established. He drove her car without filling it up, he only paid 20% of the rent. I doubt he was taking her on dates.

The adults paying rapt attention to the book at the end was the best part. Ava’s giddy “This is my favorite part!” and Jacob mouthing along both had me laughing.

[peeayebee]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Also Tariq was broke so I don’t know where this “I spend less money in relationships” thing comes from. Tariq being a deadbeat was well-established. He drove her car without filling it up, he only paid 20% of the rent. I doubt he was taking her on dates.

That's a good point. I had forgotten. And now I can't remember: Have we seen her date anyone else?

[Empress1]

22 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

That's a good point. I had forgotten. And now I can't remember: Have we seen her date anyone else?

Not long-term. There have been a few but they were all pretty short-lived. I could see her not paying for dates with men she doesn’t date for long, although I generally start splitting pretty early, but her supporting Tariq’s bummy self is canon. And even if she hadn’t, letting Gregory pay for everything when she knows how little he makes (because she makes the same amount) is a bad look. I would feel terrible if a man got a second job to pay for me, and conversely, if I were going broke dating someone, I would stop dating them.

I have an ex who made a lot more than I did (I made good money, he made great money) and he paid for most things because he could, but I still paid for SOME things. Janine and Gregory presumably make the same amount; they should be splitting stuff.

[marceline]

I really hope the story of Gregory getting a second job brings us a scene where some of his students see him working the second job. I still remember being traumatized when I was in middle school and saw my History teacher working his second gig at the mall.

I will never stop saying it: these child actors are such a joy.

I like Melissa being honest about her feelings and having it work out for them.

The book speakeasy was brilliant.

13 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Krystle was being a hypocrite because she has no problem with profanity but she does with magic?

Sadly, that kind of hypocrisy isn't remotely unusual in culture warriors.

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Not long-term. There have been a few but they were all pretty short-lived. I could see her not paying for dates with men she doesn’t date for long, although I generally start splitting pretty early, but her supporting Tariq’s bummy self is canon. And even if she hadn’t, letting Gregory pay for everything when she knows how little he makes (because she makes the same amount) is a bad look. I would feel terrible if a man got a second job to pay for me, and conversely, if I were going broke dating someone, I would stop dating them.

I have an ex who made a lot more than I did (I made good money, he made great money) and he paid for most things because he could, but I still paid for SOME things. Janine and Gregory presumably make the same amount; they should be splitting stuff.

I don't think they go out very often. They went out on Valentine's Day and to that fancy restaurant.  It's possible that rent is too expensive on a teacher's salary. Jacob moved in with Melissa when he broke up with Zack.

[Empress1]

In fairness to Janine, Gregory did say that one of his reasons for the second job is that his rent is going up, and there’s a window where an increase will squeeze you but it’s not cost-effective to move to a cheaper place since moving requires a lot of cash up front (to say nothing of the time required to find a new place and pack). Gentrification is affecting Philly’s cost of living too, so finding a cheaper place is harder than it once was.

None of the dates they’ve mentioned have sounded particularly fancy and they may well not go out much, but I think it’s reasonable, if what they do is straining Gregory’s budget, for Janine to treat sometimes and for them to split most of the time at this point in their relationship. They’re more settled, out of the courting/ trying to impress phase. Even Ava was trying to be mindful of O’Sean’s budget (or what she perceives his budget to be) when she was first becoming interested in him.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also Tariq was broke so I don’t know where this “I spend less money in relationships” thing comes from. Tariq being a deadbeat was well-established. He drove her car without filling it up, he only paid 20% of the rent. I doubt he was taking her on dates.

15 hours ago, peeayebee said:

That's a good point. I had forgotten. And now I can't remember: Have we seen her date anyone else?

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Not long-term. There have been a few but they were all pretty short-lived. I could see her not paying for dates with men she doesn’t date for long, although I generally start splitting pretty early, but her supporting Tariq’s bummy self is canon.

She dated Gregory's friend.

Janine didn't deny supporting Tariq. She said: "Well . . . [scoff]. Relationships don't cost money. I mean, if you ignore my first relationship, I usually spend less when I'm dating someone . . . hm."

On 3/5/2025 at 9:03 PM, Galileo908 said:

They're definitely setting up a plotline where he and Janine move in together

Agreed. That's usually the progression on these will-they-or-won't they shows. Although I feel that Gregory needs his privacy more than Janine does. And we've seen he gets up really early.

Edited March 7 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Lovecat]

15 hours ago, Galileo908 said:

Something I learned from the subreddit: Channel 6 is the ABC channel in Philly, while Channel 3 is CBS. And that they don't call it the symphony, they call it the orchestra.

 

Ah, but did they get into the part where back in the day Channel 3 was NBC and Channel 10 was CBS, and then one day, for reasons that I STILL don't understand, they decided to swap them, leading us Olds to mental gymnastics that continue to this day, e.g., "This is Us is an NBC show, so it should be on Channel 3, which means it's on Channel 10."

I love when the Channel 6 news people show up :)

And yes, it's never been the Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra, just the Philadelphia Orchestra.  Mr. Google reminded me that a Symphony is just another name for an orchestra that is large enough to play large-scale symphonies.  It is sometimes used in an orchestra's name to make it clear that they are not a chamber orchestra.  Philadelphia does have a chamber orchestra, BTW, fittingly called The Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia.  And now I've typed "orchestra" so many times the word has ceased to have meaning.

[chitowngirl]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I have relatives that are like this with their kids, so sadly, that didn't really surprise me. Hypiocritical, for sure, but that tends to be a recurring thing with people who try to regulate what others can read/watch/listen to. 

We had parents who wanted books taken out of the school library, mostly because of sexual content (both Heterosexual and Homosexual). Other parents countered that it was fine if you wanted to restrict books for your children, do not dictate what my children can read. And to trust the librarians to know what content should or should not be in the school libraries. This was a matter for District School Board meetings, not at a building PTA meeting.

The librarian really had no authority over Ava to close the library and to refuse to let her in…

[Crashcourse]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I have an ex who made a lot more than I did (I made good money, he made great money) and he paid for most things because he could, but I still paid for SOME things. Janine and Gregory presumably make the same amount; they should be splitting stuff.

I'm...older.......😉so when I was younger and dating, a guy wouldn't want to split the tab, so sometimes I'd fix dinner for him.  He liked that!

[Empress1]

I’d cook for this ex - I’m a very good cook and he thought it was sexy to be my sous chef. I like cooking for people, generally.

There are some women who don’t let a guy pay ever because they don’t want to feel like they owe him anything. I went to a first date drinks-turned-to-dinner with a guy who asked “are you OK if I get this?” when the check came, because he’d been on first dates with women who insisted on paying for this reason. Conversely, I asked a guy out and so expected to pay for both of us, but he wouldn’t allow it. I tend to be of the mindset of “the person who asks, pays”, and then things get split more as you become more involved. split equitably, not necessarily evenly, depending on the financial situations of the people involved. 

[DearEvette]

The cold open was, as usual, excellent.

Sassy Wizard Kid has a vogueing troll under a bridge.  Unc's grilling ribs and 'Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self." It is like if somebody did a 'The Wiz' version of Harry Potter.

Also, good to know that Charlie is not tender-headed. Heh

 

16 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This was confusing. Krystle - the woman who recently paraded around the children with the words "slut" and "whore" emblazoned on her wardrobe - is now some book-banning reactionary?

Krystal's objection to the book isn't steeped in a performative morality like most are, though.  For instance, I don't think she'd have been as concerned if the book had bad words in it.  But she is concerned that the books promote kids thinking they can speak disrespectfully to their parents.  But even if it were the former,  I think that sort of hypocrisy is the point. Many of the parents who want to ban books are are probably quite hypocritical  and whose personal lives wouldn't stand up to the 'purity' scrutiny they are trying to impose on everyone else.  Also it was very telling Krystal hadn't even read the book  only heard about bits and pieces that she created her own narrative around. Which again, is rather common.

I continue to love how they are writing the Janine/Gregory dynamic. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

I'm a sucker for anything and everything related to books and libraries, so this was another great episode for me. 

I loved everything about how Ava, Barbara, and Inez handled the PTA meeting as book banning is something that REALLY gets me fired up. Talk to YOUR kid, don't try to dictate what every other kid gets access to. 

I do wish that before they took the vote, they had actually asked first "Raise your hand if you've read this book." 

I practically fell off the couch at the end of the meeting when Barbara mentioned the one book everyone should be reading and Ava ushered them out "before she starts quoting!" 😂

[JeanJean]

"This is going to be worse than the end of the Old Testamentt."

Hilarious.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

12 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

The librarian really had no authority over Ava to close the library and to refuse to let her in…

Pretty sure Mr. Johnson would have had a key.

It's also nice to see that besides her side-hustles, Ava also reads classic literature (Of Mice and Men.)

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Even Ava was trying to be mindful of O’Sean’s budget (or what she perceives his budget to be) when she was first becoming interested in him.

I think she was trying to determine if he could afford to treat her in the manner to which she was accustomed, which would determine whether or not she would consider dating him. (The answer would be "no".)  She subsequently succumbed to his charms anyway.

[peeayebee]

13 hours ago, JeanJean said:

"This is going to be worse than the end of the Old Testamentt."

The New Testament. I think we all know how that ends. Spoiler alert!

[tennisgurl]

30 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The New Testament. I think we all know how that ends. Spoiler alert!

"Should I read the Bible?"

I am glad that this show went so hard on parents trying to ban books, my mom is a children's librarian and I swear the amount of time she has had to spend on annoying parents whining about what books are on the shelves who would rather complain to librarians than have an actual conversation with their kids. It felt weird at first that they choose Krystal to be the book ban parent but I thought about it more and and it works to really show the hypocrisy of parents banning kids books. Krystal gets mad when people try to complain about her clothes but all of the sudden is offended by witchcraft and stuff that she saw on Reddit. 

Of course none of the parents actually read the book, I remember when I was a kid in the height of the Harry Potter witch controversy and everyone complaining about the book had so clearly never read the book and kept taking quotes totally out of context. 

Look, I feel old enough already, I do not need this show to remind me that Umbrella is from years before these kids were born. That hurt, I felt Gregory on that one so hard. At least I know that yet another generation will be tortured by Hot Cross Buns. 

"Lies. Lies-a-Minnelli."

[Ilovepie]

On 3/6/2025 at 6:31 AM, peeayebee said:

So funny when that one girl was braiding Charlie's hair. "He's not even tender-headed."

Omg - my favorite moment of this episode! And he was just letting her braid his hair as he went on with his work! And her response to "what would you do if someone touched your hair?" "Smack em!" 

Also, Jacob being enthralled by Barbara's dramatic retelling of the Bible story: "Should I read the Bible?" 🤣

In my kids' school district, they send out a letter every year with a list of the books they will be exploring within the curriculum for that school year. Each has a synopsis, and you have the right to exclude your child from anything you deem inappropriate. It goes back to the district. I have never once said no - I read through and sign it. 

I think it's sad that Gregory feels the need to get a part time job. So much wrong with this. 

Loved Melissa finally admitting she wanted to date her fireman exclusively. He's so chill. Love him for her.

Edited March 7 by Ilovepie

[Blakeston]

On 3/6/2025 at 1:35 PM, chitowngirl said:

The librarian really had no authority over Ava to close the library and to refuse to let her in…

Something about the librarian just rubs me the wrong way.

I would never have expected Ava to take that weird power move lying down.

[SoMuchTV]

Add me to the viewers who felt for dead-inside Gregory saying “we’ll be giving out the recorders and playing Hot Cross Buns.”  Because that’s an oldie and a classic. 

One thing that took me out was the paper cover on the book. Has nobody in the props department ever seen a library book?

[PokerDot]

On 3/7/2025 at 10:45 AM, tennisgurl said:

Of course none of the parents actually read the book, I remember when I was a kid in the height of the Harry Potter witch controversy...Look, I feel old enough already, I do not need this show to remind me

A kid in the height of Harry Potter popularity? Yeah, cry me a river about feeling old "already". 😉

Couple glamor shots in matching overalls? Mr. Johnson wanting to get even more swole? The usually proper Barbara saying to Tariq, "She grown!" And to Krystal, "Imma read that Peter Pan."

On 3/6/2025 at 9:23 AM, Empress1 said:

Janine and Gregory presumably make the same amount; they should be splitting stuff.

Does Janine have a MASTER'S degree?

Edited March 8 by PokerDot

[chitowngirl]

On 3/6/2025 at 10:23 AM, Empress1 said:

Janine and Gregory presumably make the same amount; they should be splitting stuff.

Janine probably makes more.  She had already been teaching a few years when the show started and Gregory was a long term sub in the first season.  But, yes, they should be splitting stuff. 

[kaygeeret]

I remember being told by my mother I could not read a book she was reading.

Fiction, I was 14 so some light mysteries were easy.

You all know what I did - waited until she had left for whatever reason and immediately located the book and read until I heard her drive in.  I finished the book and yes there were a couple of sex scenes (mild believe me)  

No harm no foul.

Point: banning a book will often make a curious kid seek it out when they might otherwise ignore it completely.

let the kid read and then talk about it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The Sassy Wizard Kid. Careful, Quinta. Those Harry Potter fans will come after you.

LinkedIn must've paid for product placement to get such a clear mention. They've been getting badmouthed a lot on the interwebs lately.

Melissa pool-sharked Jacob. Wonder how much she took him for?

Expecto Nowayo. Gotta file that away for future use.

The end of the New Testament isn't all bad, Barbara. Depending on who you talk to, anyway. It's the getting though the Book of Revelation that's varying degrees of horrific.

Barbara teaching the Old Testament in a public school isn't legal, is it?

Aw, jealous Melissa, go get your fireman captain.

Oh hell no, concerned PTA parent. Steve Harvey's entire oeuvre is a compendium of male supremacy, misogyny, and homophobia claiming to be good relationship advice. From a man who hasn't met a woman he could be faithful to.

"Allies should be seen, not heard." No truer words, Jacob. Mostly.

[SoMuchTV]

56 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

LinkedIn must've paid for product placement to get such a clear mention. They've been getting badmouthed a lot on the interwebs lately.

Pretty sure I saw an actual LinkedIn ad at the next ad break.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Barbara teaching the Old Testament in a public school isn't legal, is it?

It should only be taught in a public school as part of a history course or religious survey and treated as a work of literature, and to a much older age group!

[Red Bridey]

5 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Pretty sure I saw an actual LinkedIn ad at the next ad break.

And there was a LinkedIn thank you included in the end of the show credits, so definitely a sponsorship-ish 

[anna0852]

On 3/6/2025 at 1:35 PM, chitowngirl said:

The librarian really had no authority over Ava to close the library and to refuse to let her in…

I took that as the librarian (can’t remember her name sorry) putting the mess back on Ava to resolve as it should be.

Edited March 11 by anna0852

[Racj82]

On 3/5/2025 at 9:51 PM, Blakeston said:

This was confusing. Krystle - the woman who recently paraded around the children with the words "slut" and "whore" emblazoned on her wardrobe - is now some book-banning reactionary?

I mean, it happens in real life, usually when people become religiously born again. I was surprised that they didn't give us an explanation like that.

My guess is that because Raven Goodwin's star is rising (starring opposite Travis Kelce on Grotesquerie), and she's clearly talented, Quinta and company wanted an excuse to bring her back, and they didn't concern themselves too much with consistency.

I thought the conflict was resolved way too easily. Off the top of my head, it would have been a lot more believable that Krystle would do a 180 like that if she found out that her daughter secretly read the book, and it gave her confidence.

People contradict themselves everyday. Its why the term out of character has always been silly to me. You only know what you've seen or heard or what people want you to see and hear. No errors here. Just life.