S01.E01: Pilot

[Turkish]

I think she mostly ran to Barbara out of jealousy. Plain and simple. She thought she had something on Jim that would cause a rift between him and Barbara so she impulsively ratted him out in the hopes that Barbara would confront him about it and break up with him. Of course, she would probably say it was mostly about getting a corrupt cop off the streets but I wasn't born yesterday. She came off like a jealous ex in their scenes. She didn't even have evidence to backup her claims.  I don't think she was prepared to be wrong in her assupmtions though. She knows Bullock is crooked as hell. She assumed Jim, as his partner, was the same way but it turns out he really is a good guy. Not that Renee is ever going to believe that. She really should have thought that out more before running to Barbara. She only made herself look bad in the process and she risked exposing Barbara to danger. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Turkish

[webruce]

Well the girls seem to have been real close, maybe not "dating"close, but close friends. I wonder if Barbara worked for Falcone or someone like him in her past?  Maybe she was a numbers runner or something like that even? Or dare I say a "hostess"? Renee may have done the same or been undercover?

 

 Bruce maybe kept as a regular so he can give Jim more information about the shooter, or ask Jim about any updates on the case? We may as stated above see Bruce develop investigative skills.

 Bruce may not have a lot of money that he can use right now, but he may sometime be able to pay an investigator or assist someway financially to find his parents killer.

Edited September 27, 2014 by webruce

[MarkHB]

I see what you did there. You're not slick. Not biting this time. It can't end well. And my son is already trying to avoid my "how in the hell do you know that" questions after last night! That one might lead to his homelessness, and society doesn't want that. Trust me. He's legal, but not fully cooked yet. If you know what I mean?

There's a distinctly NSFW Wikipedia page regarding the "pearl necklace".  I know when I was a teenager, if WP had existed I would have known where every single one of the dirty pages was.

 

Question 3: From what we can tell is this being set up as the Joker "Jack Napier"? Or Joe Chill?

Your other questions were answered; from what I've heard,

there will be tons of red herrings regarding The Joker, and Heller and Cannon are both convinced that they need to be very, very careful about really introducing him.  I would assume anything you see that looks in that direction is just a wink from TPTB

.

 

I don't think we'll see Ivy again. She was just an easter egg to to get the comic fans excited. I do expect to see plenty more of Selina, and at some point interacting with Bruce. Perhaps she could help him slip Alfred's leash, and teach him about life on the streets. I hope we get to see some of young Bruce's journey towards becoming Batman.

Again, from what I've heard,

I don't believe we've see the last of Ivy.  I doubt she'll be playing a large part, but I think we'll see her pop up a couple of times over the course of the season.

 

Two things I loved: Gilzean greeting Gordon in the alley like he's just another guest at the party, essentially assuming that he's going to be as corrupt as the rest, and Selina showing up at the funeral, removing her hood to pay her respects.

[darkestboy]

I got the impression Montoya was either jealous of Jim, or she was (over)protective of Barbara, so she jumped the gun.

I think it's pretty much both of these things. I like Montoya but she was way too quick to assume the worst of Gordon though.

[Jediknight]

^This. I mean, you're a Major Crimes detective, in a widely-known corrupt city and PD, and you just got intel from a criminal mover & shaker's right hand boy. So it's unimpeachable, Divine Being's Truth? So you run it by your old friend with nothing to actually substantiate that claim, sure that you won't be questioned by Gordon's now-fiancé? Really, Det. Montoya? Then being accusatory to Gordon when he is understandably irritated/pissed off that you are spreading this bit of unsubstantiated rumor as fact?

Something tells me that wasn't the first time Oswald had fed MCU information.  My guess is he's always fed them correct info, so Montoya believes him.  I think he's playing the cops, Falcone, and Fish to get power.  Oswald's rise to power will be a big story this season.  As for going to Barbara, it was to give her a heads up.

[webruce]

1 question I had was what time period this show is set in? The Dodge Diplomat/Plymouth Gran Fury that Bullock and Gordon drove is from the late 1980's. That time frame would put Batman/Bruce in his mid to late 30's today. But they had cell phones! Which would bring it more up to date. Flip phones(I still carry one), but that puts it late '00's- today. I thought well maybe one of the Detectives owns the Classic Car? But both men drove it, that would put more of a GCPD paid for vehicle tag on it. Didn't really remember what the other vehicles around Gotham looked like. Any Ideas?

Edited September 27, 2014 by webruce

[MarkHB]

It's deliberately "timeless", in much the same way Tim Burton's Batman films were.

[shapeshifter]

1 question I had was what time period this show is set in? The Dodge Diplomat/Plymouth Gran Fury that Bullock and Gordon drove is from the late 1980's. That time frame would put Batman/Bruce in his mid to late 30's today. But they had cell phones! Which would bring it more up to date. Flip phones(I still carry one), but that puts it late '00's- today. I thought well maybe one of the Detectives owns the Classic Car? But both men drove it, that would put more of a GCPD paid for vehicle tag on it. Didn't really remember what the other vehicles around Gotham looked like. Any Ideas?

I was embarrassed to admit here--but at the same time wanted to share--that they are using my flip phone! It is close to 10 years old (I put a new battery in it about 6 months ago). Why I am using that phone is logical in my case, but complicated. Anyway, noticing it made me wonder the same thing. So, yeah, either a classic car or they're mashing up technology from different times. Maybe next episode will have a Dick Tracy two-way wrist TV--or will it be a new Apple watch? It might be hard to tell if they do it, except I don't think the Apple watch would have been available until maybe when they were shooting the end of the season. But I'm going to be paying attention to what ring tones he has on his flip phone. I use sound clips of favorite songs I've edited down to fit its short loop span, but it still has the original sounds. Edited September 28, 2014 by shapeshifter

[MisterGlass]

 

I do wonder what these kiddie characters will bring to what seems to be, for the most part, an adult-themed show.  I'm hoping that their presence doesn't make things too light-hearted going forward..

 

In some ways they are Gordon's motivation.  He wants to improve the future, and make the city a better place.  I think his efforts to shield them or improve their lives will be where they enter frame.  And he is going to fail, because all of these children end up scarred.  Ivy, Selina and Bruce are already there.  I'm afraid Bruce is going to be more like the Robin of this series than the Batman.  He's going to try investigating things on his own, and get himself or others hurt.  If he finds out Catween (great name)  was a witness, they'll be the first dynamic duo.  Bruce might want to rebell, and enjoy mischief while he studies crime.  I see her caught stealing silverware and milk out of the Wayne Manor kitchen.  I can't imagine that Bruce goes to school with her, and even if he did I really don't want to see the life and times of Gotham High.

 

Alfred should start sewing GPS tags in his socks ASAP.

 

Perhaps Gordon meant innocent in terms of murdering the Waynes? I thought they mentioned a parole violation or a probation violation and that was when he split down the fire escape.

 

Pepper bolted when they said they did not need a warrant to search the home of a parolee, only reasonable cause.  The fake necklace was in a package of drugs in the apartment, so while Pepper didn't know about the necklace, he did know about a quantity of drugs that probably qualified as 'intent to distribute'.

 

As for the Waynes' shooter, was there something strange about his eyebrows?

[Camera One]

In some ways they are Gordon's motivation.  He wants to improve the future, and make the city a better place.  I think his efforts to shield them or improve their lives will be where they enter frame.  And he is going to fail, because all of these children end up scarred.  Ivy, Selina and Bruce are already there.  I'm afraid Bruce is going to be more like the Robin of this series than the Batman.  He's going to try investigating things on his own, and get himself or others hurt.

 

I actually found Young Bruce and Young Ivy the most intriguing characters from the first episode.  The actor who plays Bruce has an edge of anger with a streak of arrogance.  I question why Gordon told the kid the truth, since you know the boy will try to take matters into his own hands, and Gordon will need to get him out of these scrapes.  The event with Pepper's father explains her distrust of police, which is probably a common phenomenon among the lower income residents of Gotham.  

[webruce]

My flip cell is 6 years old this Christmas. So I am close behind yours.

 

 Ivy's mother Alice maybe tough but it is probably from being mistreated by her husband. She will have to be tough too, as we saw when she answered the door. Now without Dad to bring in some income, Mom will have to work much more. Ivy will probably grow up stealing and trying to get things for her. Use them as it were. She may even end up hanging out with Selina, who knows.

[Tableau]

One thing that bugs a little was Gordon and Bullock saying that they killed an "innocent" man.

 

The guy had emptied a clip at him and was about to stab Gordon with a chef's knife.

 

Sure, he was probably reacting like that because he realized he was being framed and would have been murdered in lockup, but it wasn't an unjustified shooting.

 

Yes, thank you! This was bothering the hell out of me for the rest of the episode. Gordon kept on harping on about killing innocent Mario and I kept saying to my TV "No, he wasn't. He was about to kill you! Or have you forgot?" Harvey did not kill an innocent man. He killed a guy who was about to stab his partner to death.

 

Edited September 28, 2014 by Tableau

[calliope1975]

I watched this again with a friend who hadn't seen it, and boy, it didn't hold up upon rewatch for me. Some of the dialogue was really clunky. 

 

Jim asks Barbara who told her the information. She says "nobody" and he replies with "I know when you're lying." What?? That doesn't even make sense. That was an evasion, not a lie. 

 

All that talk of killing an innocent man was ridiculous. They questioned a legitimate suspect who flipped out and then tried to kill Gordon. There's no way there jobs would have been in any danger. 

 

I know this happens in many TV shows, but I hate the 'buck up, little camper' speech that kids always get when their parents die. I wanted Bruce to be all, 'oh, you know how I feel? Really. A drunk driver versus a violent attack that just happened. The guy pointed a gun at me. My parents' bodies aren't even cold 10 feet away from where we are right now. And I'm, like, 12. Can you give me an hour or so to grieve before telling me it'll get better?'

[ribboninthesky1]

Yeah, the "there will be light" speech was extremely bad timing.  Maybe let the poor child at least grieve and bury his parents who were murdered before his eyes prior to giving a pep talk?   

[Camera One]

I know this happens in many TV shows, but I hate the 'buck up, little camper' speech that kids always get when their parents die. I wanted Bruce to be all, 'oh, you know how I feel? Really. A drunk driver versus a violent attack that just happened. The guy pointed a gun at me. My parents' bodies aren't even cold 10 feet away from where we are right now. And I'm, like, 12. Can you give me an hour or so to grieve before telling me it'll get better?'

 

Exactly.  The "There will be light" line might be good for a future episode, but within an hour of the kid watching his parents gunned down in cold blood?  It was just ridiculous and took me out of the scene.

 

Unfortunately, there were so many examples of stilted melodramatic dialogue in this episode.  I know it's supposed to be a comic book but conversations have to sound natural if they are trying to do a dramatization.

[Happytobehere]

 

I know this happens in many TV shows, but I hate the 'buck up, little camper' speech that kids always get when their parents die. I wanted Bruce to be all, 'oh, you know how I feel? Really. A drunk driver versus a violent attack that just happened. The guy pointed a gun at me. My parents' bodies aren't even cold 10 feet away from where we are right now. And I'm, like, 12. Can you give me an hour or so to grieve before telling me it'll get better?'

This was especially the case given that Gordon's mother was presumably still alive while both of Bruce's parents were brutally killed in front of him.

[Camera One]

This could have turned into a whole different type of show if Gordon had then started singing Little Orphan Annie's "The sun'll come out tomorrow / Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow / there'll be sun..."

[VillaVillekulla]

Gotham: The Musical.

 

Honestly, I might watch that.

[darkestboy]

I didn't much care that Mario was killed to be honest but unlike Bruce and Selina, Ivy's appearances probably will be fewer and far between though.

[Sandman]

"The worst pies in Gotham!" Heh.

[MarkHB]

Even though the "there will be light" speech was awkward in the context of the full story, it didn't bother me because Gordon was doing his job. He needed to establish a rapport with the only witness (so far as he knows) to a double murder in order to get something to go on, and it worked because that's when Bruce started talking.  Even in RL, there's no way that that situation would be easy except that CPS would probably have been involved already. (Of course, if there's a functioning CPS there's very little likelihood that Bruce would be put in the care of his family's employee.)

[Kel Varnsen]

. (Of course, if there's a functioning CPS there's very little likelihood that Bruce would be put in the care of his family's employee.)

I am not so sure about that. I mean the Wayne family was crazy rich. And you would at least think that crazy rich people would have all of their affairs in order, including custody of their kid, in the event that anything happens to them. If they don't have any immediate family I can totally buy that their wills said that Alfred would be named Bruce's guardian.

[Florinaldo]

Auspicious debut episode. It will be interesting to see if they manage to build on the potential they have laid out through the plots, the atmosphere and most importantly the characters.

 

I thought that introducing younger versions of a number of future villains was a good move on their part. It firmly establishes in the mind of the viewer that this is indeed set in the Batman universe (I am assuming that most people will have at least a passing knowledge of Poison Ivy, the Riddler, etc. from the movies). It also clearly sets the show apart from all other various dark and brooding cop shows. They can now dial back on these cameos and use only one or two at a time and perhaps even have some episodes with none of them present on-screen (except probably for lurking CatTeenGirl).

 

I was not really taken with Fish as she represents the stereotypical character of the colorful kingpin figure, who knows everything that is going on in the underworld (and also above) and probably controls a good part of it. There is probably room to add to this though.

[ribboninthesky1]

Even though the "there will be light" speech was awkward in the context of the full story, it didn't bother me because Gordon was doing his job. He needed to establish a rapport with the only witness (so far as he knows) to a double murder in order to get something to go on, and it worked because that's when Bruce started talking. 

 

I didn't mind the part where he shared how he lost his father, it was specifically the "there will be light" pep-talk part that seemed rather incongruous and ill-timed.  Bruce started talking after that because the writing dictated it - he could have done so after Gordon shared how his father died.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[DollEyes]

My verdict: I loved it. It's not "perfect," but it's one of the best pilots of the new Fall season. As someone who has followed Batman since childhood, I'm not5 possessive of the legacy, but it is important to me, especially since it's the 75th Anniversary and this did not disappoint, in style or substance. Acting-wise, as the young future Commissioner Gordon, Ben McKenzie is perfect. His work in The O.C. and Southland have well-prepared him for this, plus he still looks great in a tank top. Gordon's comforting the young Bruce Wayne after his parents' murder didn't bother me because he was trying to help and apparently succeeded, otherwise Bruce wouldn't have spoken to him again, much less trusted him. Gordon may not know what it's like to see both his parents killed in front of him, but he does know about losing one at a young age. Donal Logue is equally perfect as Det. Bullock, the "lackadaisical" yin to Gordon's yang.  While Gordon tries to make things better, Bullock just goes along to get along, for better and for worse. ITA that the Wayne's murder aside, Mario Pepper wasn't "innocent" by a long shot. He not only fled police custody, he tried to kill Gordon more than once, therefore he deserved to die, as far as I'm concerned.

 

  On the personal front, I don't like nor trust Barbara nor Det. Montoya. I think that Barbara's bisexual and could be connected to Falcone on some level but Jim doesn't know about either and even if he does, that doesn't give Barbara the right to keep secrets from him nor Montoya the right to slander him, especially if it makes her look like a jealous ex who just wants to eliminate the competition.  Barbara's evasiveness about her past is just another form of lying IMO and it could hurt Gordon in more ways than one.

 

  On the villain front, as Fish Mooney, Jada Pinkett Smith's OK-just OK. She's stylish and charming, but she's also impulsive and psychotic. Mooney's attempted murders of Gordon and Bullock won't sit well with her boss Falcone, I'm guessing. Falcone seems to like things/people in his control, not out of it, which Fish is proving to be.  Robin Lord Taylor is amazing. As Oswald, the Crook Who Would be Penguin, RLT is both equal parts pathetic and terrifying. The way I see it, Penguin was created by both Mooney and Gordon; Mooney, who crippled Oswald and Gordon, who spared him. Seeing Oswald's metamorphosis is going to be at least half the fun, I predict.

[proserpina65]

I'll preface this by stating that I'm not a fan of Batman or of shows/movies based on comic books, so I'm definitely not the intended audience for Gotham, and now I know why.

 

I taped the premiere on Monday, and tried to watch it later in the week.  After about 15 minutes, I found myself fast-forwarding through everything except Sean Pertwee's scenes, and kept thinking "I must be at the end of this crap by now" and was shocked to discover I wasn't.  I'll probably keep taping it for awhile and watch Sean's scenes, but only for someone like him would I slog through this show.

Is it me, or does Sean Pertwee look a lot like his father? It's distracting. If Bruce gets out of line, I'd expect Alfred to whip out the Venusian Aikido on him. HAI!!!

 

He looks more and more like his dad all the time.  Except for the hair, of course.

Edited September 29, 2014 by proserpina65

[Turkish]

I was watching some online reviews of the pilot and one reviewer mentioned some comic history that I had long forgotten that could possibly make it's way into this Gotham series. And that is that Carmine Falcone is alleged to be the father of 

Selina Kyle.

It would interesting if the show ever addresses this as it would tie that person to more than one character on the canvas at this point. 

[Jeezaloo]

Seven word review of GOTHAM:

 

I managed to choke it down. Yum!!!

[Lokiberry]

I was watching some online reviews of the pilot and one reviewer mentioned some comic history that I had long forgotten that could possibly make it's way into this Gotham series. And that is that Carmine Falcone is alleged to be the father of 

Selina Kyle.

It would interesting if the show ever addresses this as it would tie that person to more than one character on the canvas at this point. 

Batman Eternal has just updated that

Rex Calabrese, Falcone's biggest rival, is now Selina's father.

. I don't know if any of this is going to be included, but it would make a pretty cool story.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Lokiberry

[millennium]

Does anyone know if this program is following Pre- or Post-Crisis Batman cannon?

 

Three minutes in, and they seem to shit all over canon.   I've been reading Batman for almost 40 years, and I don't recall li'l Selina Kyle ever witnessing the evil doings in Crime Alley.  Also, I always thought Bruce and his parents had just seen Zorro at the theater, not some "lame" musical production.  

Edited October 4, 2014 by millennium

[millennium]

I finished watching the pilot, probably won't go back again.

 

This show has succeeded in making Batman's origin pedestrian.   And his rogue's gallery trite.

[jhlipton]

f Jim Gordon was low man on the detective totem pole at the station, how come everyone reacted to him during the hostage-taking as if he was in charge/star of the show ?

 

The thing that boithered me was that the show is set somewhere in the last 10 years or so ("His phone ran out of juice."), but no one figured out that the prisoner probably had some anti-psychotic drugs that would calm him dow (no, Jim, not aspirn!!!)

 

One thing that bugs a little was Gordon and Bullock saying that they killed an "innocent" man.

I agree that he wasn't "innocent".

 

 

1 question I had was what time period this show is set in?

Definitely sometime in the past 10 years or so. Gordon's got a mobile phone (see the quote above), but it didn't look like anyone had a smartphone. Which would make sense for the characters to be the age they are "today".

[Danny Franks]

Three minutes in, and they seem to shit all over canon.   I've been reading Batman for almost 40 years, and I don't recall li'l Selina Kyle ever witnessing the evil doings in Crime Alley.  Also, I always thought Bruce and his parents had just seen Zorro at the theater, not some "lame" musical production.

 

 

What canon? DC has dicked around with their own continuity so much that I don't think the show should feel beholden to anything they have written. And the further this show gets from the pile of shit that is the New 52, the better it'll be for it.

 

Definitely sometime in the past 10 years or so. Gordon's got a mobile phone (see the quote above), but it didn't look like anyone had a smartphone. Which would make sense for the characters to be the age they are "today".

 

 

 

I think it's set when it's set. They've deliberately taken elements from a number of different periods, to try and create something that feels timeless. Old fashioned but with some modern tech, and I think that fits the Batman mythos quite well, because there's always been the feel that he lives in a slightly alternate universe, where these things can happen. I'm delighted that this show is departing from Nolan's cold, boring modern take on the character. Or rather, on the city, because the Bruce Wayne character in this show is utterly superfluous.

[millennium]

What canon? DC has dicked around with their own continuity so much that I don't think the show should feel beholden to anything they have written. And the further this show gets from the pile of shit that is the New 52, the better it'll be for

 

This canon.   The only one that matters.

 

http://thequality.com/flics/10weeks/blog/archives/images/Batman%20Origin%20copy-thumb.jpg

[MarkHB]

Interesting.... I had never seen the Detective #33 version (the version in Batman #1 has a different splash panel but the rest of the two page spread is the same).  But, although we don't see it in those two pages there's nothing there to contradict the idea that there was another witness.  Plus, I have to wonder when the whole "Mark of Zorro" tie-in was introduced. Denny O'Neil didn't use it in "There Is No Hope in Crime Alley" in 1976; Frank Miller definitely did in TDKReturns.  Of course, Christopher Nolan ignored it in favor of "Die Fledermaus" in Batman Begins. Whenever it was first mentioned, I just think of it as a cool synergy but am not going to hold anything against this show for not using it.

Edited October 9, 2014 by MarkHB

[Danny Franks]

 

This canon.   The only one that matters.

 

http://thequality.com/flics/10weeks/blog/archives/images/Batman%20Origin%20copy-thumb.jpg

 

That canon doesn't show what movie the Waynes were seeing, nor does it deny the possibility of Selina being in Crime Alley. But that isn't the only one that matters anyway, because DC have done about six different versions of it, and I'm pretty sure they've all been expunged or revised or retconned in some fashion, over the years. Whatever crap is in the New 52 is the current canon. Until they retcon that as well.

[Tenshinhan]

...Old fashioned but with some modern tech, and I think that fits the Batman mythos quite well, because there's always been the feel that he lives in a slightly alternate universe, where these things can happen. I'm delighted that this show is departing from Nolan's cold, boring modern take...

 

I disagree with this.  I think that any notion of an "alternate universe" setting has mostly been pushed through in the post-Burton era of the mythos.  I think that any elements of otherworldly timelessness and such on this show are a result of that film's influence more than anything else.

 

And while some may find Nolan's Gotham City cold and boring, I think that it is probably the best reflection of the comic book Gotham that we have seen on the screen so far (particularly in the third film).  The Gotham City on this show had/has potential, but all of the CGI clouds and architecture do it a disservice, in my opinion.

 

Plus, I have to wonder when the whole "Mark of Zorro" tie-in was introduced. Denny O'Neil didn't use it in "There Is No Hope in Crime Alley" in 1976; Frank Miller definitely did in TDKReturns.  Of course, Christopher Nolan ignored it in favor of "Die Fledermaus" in Batman Begins. Whenever it was first mentioned, I just think of it as a cool synergy but am not going to hold anything against this show for not using it.

 

I'm fairly certain Zorro was a Miller contribution (Len Wein didn't name the film in "The Untold Legend of the Batman" either).  I believe the Superfriends version used Robin Hood.  Characters and stories like Robin Hood, Zorro, the Shadow, and Sherlock Holmes were all significant influences on the Batman character and mythos, so of course writers might pay homage to this.   I agree that it's not something the show needs to worry about.

[Danny Franks]

I disagree with this.  I think that any notion of an "alternate universe" setting has mostly been pushed through in the post-Burton era of the mythos.  I think that any elements of otherworldly timelessness and such on this show are a result of that film's influence more than anything else.

And while some may find Nolan's Gotham City cold and boring, I think that it is probably the best reflection of the comic book Gotham that we have seen on the screen so far (particularly in the third film).  The Gotham City on this show had/has potential, but all of the CGI clouds and architecture do it a disservice, in my opinion.

 

 

I can't think of it as a reflection of any Gotham City I've seen in the comic books. Nothing like the one in The Long Halloween, or Year One, or Dark Victory, or Knightfall, or even newer stuff like Hush and The Black Mirror.

 

Nolan's movies could have been set in any city in the USA, and it would have made little difference. The first one at least had The Narrows, and had that dark, seedy feel, but then apparently Nolan couldn't be bothered building big sets, so just chose to film it in New York or Chicago or wherever. I don't think any depiction of Gotham on the big screen has been quite right. Burton's were too gothic, Schumacher's were just a mess, and Nolan's were cold, sterile dullness.

[Tenshinhan]

Replying about Gotham City in the Other Versions thread.

[MarkHB]

I can't think of it as a reflection of any Gotham City I've seen in the comic books. Nothing like the one in The Long Halloween, or Year One, or Dark Victory, or Knightfall, or even newer stuff like Hush and The Black Mirror.

Try to find the "Destroyer" storyline from 1992; DC actually asked Anton Furst, Burton's production designer on his Batman movies, to create a Gotham for the comics.  I believe it stood as the "standard" (although DC, being DC, wouldn't force anyone to use it) until the earthquake that led into No Man's Land.

[Kromm]

Only just got to see this.  

 

Overall I'm satisfied, although the mix and match of Batman's supporting cast makes for some strange remixing.  Montoya being Batgirl's mother's former love interest? Geez.  Poison Ivy's Dad being the set-up fall guy for the Wayne murders?  Double geez.

 

Of all of the contrivances, the one with a young Selina Kyle being a witness is surprisingly the least objectionable. 

[John Potts]

So I guess that was the first episode of Batman's Rogue Gallery: the Junior Years. As Accused Dingo said, there was really no purpose to squeezing in all the proto villains (Poison Ivy and Kittygirl were apparently there just for the sake of throwing them in) - slightly surprised we didn't get a reference to an "ambitious young ADA Harvey Dent". And would a professional hit man really leave a witness alive who could identify him alive? Granted, he was presumably hired only to kill the senior Waynes, but you'd think "Leave No Witnesses" would be a rule in his line of business (I was expecting Kittygirl to knock over a bottle or something to distract the killer and allow Bruce to escape).

 

But I did actually like the setting. Harvey was actually believable as the hard bitten cop (even if I kept thinking he was played by WWE's Triple H!) with just enough of a conscience to rescue young Jim when he got in over his head. "Fish" Mooney was rather OTT, but this is the city where OTT villains are (going to be) 10 a penny. And I cannot see the Mayor as anything other than Paul Lassiter, so I can't see him being effective in keeping the monsters under control. And I liked Carmine as the

 

Of course, it did suffer from the fact that we know it's a prequel series - we know who is going to survive so the scene at the end where we're asked to be concerned whether Gordon or the proto Penguin will survive was kind of pointless (unless they're going to go all Inglorius Basterds on us). And being wedded to canon (assuming they are) means there are even more characters whose fates are set, which is really going to take a lot of the tension out of the series. OK, I'll watch the next episode (and probably most of this series), but it'll need a better USP to keep me coming back.

[Guest]

Just starting to watch this on Netflix.  This is gonna be AWESOME!  Also?  Donal Logue!  <--- I would have watched sooner, if I'd known.