S01.E02: Look Before You Leap

[Tara Ariano]

Henry and Jo go on a rogue investigation to disprove a police theory.

[shapeshifter]

Just in case I'm not the only one confused by this fall's TV airing schedules (pilots in advance, pilots on different nights, pilots re-airing later, pilots followed immediately by another episode, etc.):

Yoo-hoo! As the thread title indicates, this is the second episode, and it is airing tomorrow (Tuesday) night.

Judd Hirsch is not listed on IMDB as being in the cast for this episode (boo!), but maybe he will at least have a cameo.

[dubbel zout]

IMDB isn't the most reliable for TV eps before they air, so I wouldn't read anything into Hirsch's absence in the listing.

[WendyCR72]

Funny (well, not funny, per se!) how tonight's episode dealt with another jumper, or so it was thought...

 

And Judd Hirsch WAS in the episode, and it looks like he has a key role next week. I still love the reverse father/son relationship with Henry, and Jo isn't grating on me, so that's good.

 

Although I'd like to see Jo do more in the way of deduction and show her skills. Henry is good for help, but let Alana De La Garza actually do something.

[KaveDweller]

I found Henry's ability to know everything right away much more grating than last night.   I'm not sure if that was the writing or if I just noticed it more after reading other people's reaction.  The real problem is that It makes the cops look like idiots, and I don't like watching shows about idiots.

 

I am enjoying the Abe/Henry relationship.  I'm not really feeling any chemistry between Henry and Jo though.  I don't dislike her, I'm just not feeling the chemistry.

 

I'm hoping that we don't end every episode with the other immortal guy calling Henry and saying cryptic stuff.  That's the most interesting part of this premise to me, so I want them to really explore it.  Without that, this is just another cop show.  And that other guy being cryptic will get annoying quickly.  Sometimes the second episode of a series repeats parts of the pilot, so I will give them a pass on not really doing anything new with that plot point yet.  But I want to actually meet that character.

[Trini]

Are they serious? Is he going to die in every episode? That was annoying enough in the pilot. But props to them for the fakeout with Henry getting hit by a truck instead of falling. Although I thought his entire scene on the bridge was stupid.

 

And the voiceover is still here.

[shapeshifter]

Are they serious? Is he going to die in every episode?

I don't mind, but at times I have such an overwhelming need for comic relief, that I'll take what I can get.

I really liked the bit where he was looking at the security camera when the guy had a knife at his throat, terrified--not that he would die--but that he would be killed, disappear, and then have to really disappear, as in probably move to Switzerland or New Zealand, and how would he explain it to Judd Hirsch's character? That is what is bringing me back for another episode.

[ToukieSmith]

 

I am enjoying the Abe/Henry relationship.  I'm not really feeling any chemistry between Henry and Jo though.  I don't dislike her, I'm just not feeling the chemistry.

 

I'm hoping that we don't end every episode with the other immortal guy calling Henry and saying cryptic stuff.  That's the most interesting part of this premise to me, so I want them to really explore it.  Without that, this is just another cop show.  And that other guy being cryptic will get annoying quickly.  Sometimes the second episode of a series repeats parts of the pilot, so I will give them a pass on not really doing anything new with that plot point yet.  But I want to actually meet that character.

 

I like the Abe/Henry chemistry too.  My issue with Jo and Henry is that they feel like a forced Castle and Beckett pairing to me.  I also don't like the flashback to Henry's unrequited love - they don't have any chemistry and there is nothing interesting about their relationship as shown so far.  I think they introduced the voice on the phone too early.  We have enough to digest without adding this seemingly sinister character so soon.  I like the addition of Lorraine Toussaint.

[Rick Kitchen]

I don't mind, but at times I have such an overwhelming need for comic relief, that I'll take what I can get.

I really liked the bit where he was looking at the security camera when the guy had a knife at his throat, terrified--not that he would die--but that he would be killed, disappear, and then have to really disappear, as in probably move to Switzerland or New Zealand, and how would he explain it to Judd Hirsch's character? That is what is bringing me back for another episode.

 

Thank you.  I didn't understand what he was panicking about.

[MDKNIGHT]

They just forshadowed one of my pet peeves.  Voice guy said he is 2000 years old. When we finally get to see him he will not look like somebody who lived 2000 years ago.  Immortals would stick out.  Because of nutrition and life styles and genetics people were much shorter 2000 years ago.  People just looked different. Shape of the head, ethnicity etc.   If he's any older than 2000 it will really be ridiculous. At least he didn't say he was a Neanderthal but calling himself Adam was a bit much.

 

Did they have a baby have a concentration camp tattoo?  I don't think that makes historical sense.  They wouldn't keep Jewish babies alive...they couldn't work. The ones who could work were tatoo'd and worked to death.  I know this show is a fantasy but they need to ground the fantasy in reality and that took me out of the episode. 

 

Henry is more and more annoying.  I know Sherlock Holmes can be an egotistical bastard but he works in some charm.  So far Henry has the smarts but not the finesse.

 

ETA No way dying as often as he does that nobody would have caught him on a camera or otherwise noticed him disappearing.  Really if you are careful you shouldn't die all the time.  I found that part really lame.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[Oscirus]

 If you want to be a murder mystery show , then spend more time developing the mystery, red herrings and suspects. That was a piss poor case tonight. As for the fantasy aspect of it, less is more.  Concentrate on the case of the week and maybe have him get a phone call once every three weeks or something. 

One thing I will give this show kudos for is not attempting romance between it's two leads. I actually like that they can be friends without having to worry about them hooking up ( yes I know that's where they're going with it but a fella can dream).

[Big Bad Wolf]

So, I have microscopic slugs on my eyelashes. Thanks for that, show!

 

Still watching for Ioan, but some of the writing is extremely suspect. Love Judd Hirsch, though, and don't mind Alana, so I'll continue watching for now.

[shapeshifter]

Did they have a baby have a concentration camp tattoo? I don't think that makes historical sense. They wouldn't keep Jewish babies alive...they couldn't work. The ones who could work were tatoo'd and worked to death. I know this show is a fantasy but they need to ground the fantasy in reality and that took me out of the episode...

That is a pretty big oversight. Hopefully they will fix it with an engaging backstory of how someone tattooed the baby in hopes that it would be successfully hidden long enough to survive. I don't know. Edited September 24, 2014 by shapeshifter

[augmentedfourth]

I like the show and I'll continue watching. Is it going to be one of the greatest TV shows ever? Probably not. Are parts of it ridiculously over-the-top and far-fetched? Oh yes. But it's entertaining enough, had enough hooks to keep me interested, and is filled with some fine eye candy and/or entertaining actors. Sometimes light fun is good enough.

[LVmom]

I can fanwank they kept some babies alive for experimentation, and they were liberated before anyone could do anything to the baby. I'm only here for Judd Hirsch though. Didn't care for him in Taxi but the man can do no wrong since Independence Day. I'm that shallow. I do like police procedurals too so I'm in for now. 

[ElleBee]

I kind of like it too, especially the dynamic between father and son. There's some good familial chemistry there and the flip-flopping of ages makes it especially interesting.

 

I agree it's a bit much with the multiple deaths, and each time he dies he risks uncovering his secret to others, but I feel like they can get away with it in the context of the story. Because he's not afraid to die, he can put himself in all sorts of situations that other people would avoid. He can hang off a bridge (even though that wasn't what ultimately killed him) to test a theory where most normal people wouldn't dare. He can voluntarily be poisoned to test the effects... So I guess I can go with that part of the story because it seems like he's not coincidentally dying all the time but deliberately putting himself into situations where death is likely. When you can go through life with absolutely no fear of death, you probably do live your life very differently.

 

I'm not feeling much of a dynamic between Henry and Jo either. Not sure if it's a lack of chemistry between the actors or whether it's intentional, since both of the characters are nowhere near being over their dead spouses.

[lorikauai]

Again I enjoyed it. I like the addition of Lorraine Toussant. I feel like it is a show that will get better over the course of the season (like Elementary). I'm in. Of course they could probably just show 40 minutes of IG reading the dictionary and I'd still be in.

[90PercentGravity]

So, I have microscopic slugs on my eyelashes. Thanks for that, show!

 

Still watching for Ioan, but some of the writing is extremely suspect. Love Judd Hirsch, though, and don't mind Alana, so I'll continue watching for now.

When I was in grade school I had a friend who saw this on one of those nature shows and started plucking her eyelashes. She told people that she didn't have eyelashes because her brother spilled white out on her, but it was really because the bugs freaked her out.

[pcta]

I am really loving this show and, so far, have nothing to carp about. They seem to have taken off running and don't need half dozen shows for audience to "get to know" characters. They seem to credit audience with some intelligence.

[Shermie]

Oh, this is a silly show, but it's entertainingly silly, so I'm in for now.

I guess Judd Hirsch is destined to drive a cab forever.

The other immortal calling himself Adam because he is 2,000 years old is wrong. That would have been Jesus's time. Adam and Eve were about 5,000 years before that. If they're going to make a biblical metaphor, at least be accurate. Anyone who gets the Adam reference would know that.

Of course, this is a show where some random Army guy kept a foundling with a Holocaust tattoo.

I'm wondering how he manages to contact Judd after his deaths. The first time, he was in the police station, and got to make a phone call. But where did he get the nice outfit he was wearing when Judd picked him up? After his bridge death, Judd just pulls up and gets him. How does a naked guy call someone?

[KaveDweller]

He always seems to come back in that one spot, so he should stash some clothes somewhere near there. 

 

But where did he get the nice outfit he was wearing when Judd picked him up? After his bridge death, Judd just pulls up and gets him. How does a naked guy call someone?

 

I assume they gave him the clothes in jail.  They wouldn't make him sit there naked all night, would they? 

[dubbel zout]

Henry was wearing clothes with the NYPD logo on it. I can't imagine the liability of keeping a naked prisoner overnight.

[BooBear]

What I like about this show is that it is charming.  So I am willing to let the other not so great parts go. I think the deaths should happen like every three episodes and serve the plot...  I like that Jo is relatively platonic at the moment.  I enjoy Abe being and older kid and I even enjoy the rip off of Unbreakable. But they need to not throw everything in at once. Pace the subplots! It will be I think hard to keep his secret from Jo if he keeps hanging out with her and going on rogue missions.

[Sakura12]

I really hope they don't plan on making the cops on this show idiots just to show that the lead is the smartest guy in the room. That's what I enjoy about Elementary, Sherlock will come to a conclusion but before he can say it one of the cops also came to that conclusion, then he helps out with the more detailed scenario of what happened. Not everyone has to be stupid for us to know Henry's a smart guy. That will turn me off it keeps happening.

 

I do like Henry and Abe's relationship, they have a great family relationship. I also hope they keep the Detective and Henry platonic because I don't see much romantic chemistry, but I can see a friendship developing, more so when and if she finds out about him being immortal. 

 

I think the other guy called himself Adam because he's the first immortal, not that he was as old as Adam. 

[retrograde]

I feel like there is potential for chemistry between Henry and Jo (like, there isn't that anti-chemistry you sometimes get with bad TV pairings), but the show needs to invest in actually building their relationship. They just met last episode and now, no questions asked, he's her partner in crime (investigation) and she's totally cool with him interrogating suspects and snooping around potential crime scenes? There needs to be some level of friction there -- she should be more curious and suspicious about this weirdo, she should be more annoyed by his know-it-all attitude, they need to have actual conversations outside of their investigations. And conversely, we should be able to see why he is particularly drawn to her. He must deal with plenty of plenty of other cops and deaths all day -- why does he specifically want to work with Jo?

 

This episode felt like it belonged halfway into the season, when the characters have gotten to know each other (and we the characters) and a show can relax into a more comfortable procedural pace. Someone mentioned Castle upthread -- that show is hardly groundbreaking TV, but they really laid the groundwork with Castle and Beckett in the early episodes of season 1. Ditto Perception, which is an even worse show (that I still watch) with a similar set-up, but they still put the work in setting up the personal relationship between the straight cop/brilliant crime solver in season 1. 

[theatremouse]

I think the other guy called himself Adam because he's the first immortal, not that he was as old as Adam.

Yeah, that's also how I interpreted the remark: about the first-ness, not the implied timeline.

[CatWarmer]

I'm really hoping the 2000 year old man will be played by Mel Brooks.

[shapeshifter]

...The other immortal calling himself Adam because he is 2,000 years old is wrong. That would have been Jesus's time. Adam and Eve were about 5,000 years before that. If they're going to make a biblical metaphor, at least be accurate. Anyone who gets the Adam reference would know that.

...I think the other guy called himself Adam because he's the first immortal, not that he was as old as Adam.

Yes, I figured that must be what they meant, but I agree with Shermie: Making him 2000 years old but naming him Adam is distracting at best. There actually is something either in the Christian scriptures--or maybe it's just a popular metaphor in pulpits--about Jesus being the "second Adam," but that seems pretty obscure for a TV show if that's what they were going for.

I'd be happy to have him die several times every episode because I think it just gets funnier, but for many people at any given time, death is not funny--so this could be the downfall of ratings for the show.

Edited September 25, 2014 by shapeshifter

[bros402]

They just forshadowed one of my pet peeves.  Voice guy said he is 2000 years old. When we finally get to see him he will not look like somebody who lived 2000 years ago.  Immortals would stick out.  Because of nutrition and life styles and genetics people were much shorter 2000 years ago.  People just looked different. Shape of the head, ethnicity etc.   If he's any older than 2000 it will really be ridiculous. At least he didn't say he was a Neanderthal but calling himself Adam was a bit much.

 

The little view we had of the guy - probably an extra - he seemed to look like he had somewhat tan skin and.. scraggly hair.

 

He's 2000 years old. He's most likely incredibly egotistical. Why not call himself Adam?

 

The other immortal calling himself Adam because he is 2,000 years old is wrong. That would have been Jesus's time. Adam and Eve were about 5,000 years before that. If they're going to make a biblical metaphor, at least be accurate. Anyone who gets the Adam reference would know that.

 

He could've just chosen the name because he was egotistical, not through any reverence or like for the Bible. Maybe it's one of his favorite names he's used over the years? It also has been used as a male name for centuries - so there's that.

[Shermie]

I suppose the name Adam could be because of,the "firstness", but how does he know he is the first? Just because he hasn't found anyone else? It's a huge world. I guess he does have an ego.

[attica]

So, I have microscopic slugs on my eyelashes. Thanks for that, show!

 

Then you probably don't want to know about face mites. Sorry.  The way I look at it, it's company!

 

Okay, so Henry disappears when he dies. Fine. Where do all his clothes go? How does he keep himself in scarves? A city employee, even an MD, doesn't pull down Hermes-level moolah.

 

I'm happy to see NYC as a filming locale, I'm happy to see people from the L&O-verse getting work again, the procedural aspect isn't annoying me yet (although it's a leap over disbelief that an NYC ME would have all that free time to traipse around with the detectives). I'm in for a couple more. It'd be the whole megillah if they'd cast Leslie Hendrix to be one of the ME dept supervisors; I need me some Rogers.

[DHDancer]

The little view we had of the guy - probably an extra - he seemed to look like he had somewhat tan skin and.. scraggly hair.

 

He had gloves on and what appeared to be a hood of some sort.  And count me in on the "first" as the interpretation of the Adam reference.

[iMonrey]

 

Did they have a baby have a concentration camp tattoo?

 

It's possible the baby was brought into the concentration camp, with its mother, rather than having been born there. At which point, it would have been tattooed, like any other incoming inmate, because all the victims of the holocaust weren't made aware of the fact that they were going to the gas chambers upon entrance to the camps. Potentially, the camp could have been liberated very shortly after the baby arrived.

 

I think I'm going to have a hard time with Henry's constant brilliance about every little thing, because it's way too similar to Sherlock on Elementary, which I've been watching since the beginning. I'm also going to have a hard time with him dying every single episode, because it's really silly he dies that often.

 

But, at least they explained what happens to his body when he dies, which was absent from the pilot, egregiously so.

 

The ratings for this show aren't great but it's the best a show has performed for the network in this time slot for the past couple of years, so it has a good chance of hanging on for a whole season if the ratings remain stable. Pretty much the same for the first two episodes.

[theatremouse]

I suppose the name Adam could be because of,the "firstness", but how does he know he is the first? Just because he hasn't found anyone else? It's a huge world. I guess he does have an ego.

Could be ego, but I also sort of think, the guy's been around for 2000 years, and apparently spent all that time searching for someone else like him. Mind you, that would've become much easier, although still quite the task, recently what with the internet and omnipresent cameras and whatnot. That said, if he spent 2000 years searching for someone with their affliction, and the only one who turned up yet is Morgan, and he knows Dr. Morgan's only been around 200, it's not necessarily all ego to have surmised he was the first, since until Morgan he probably thought he was the only. It is a huge world, but if he's, say, consumed by it and found no one else in all that time, I don't know if I think it's all that egotistical to have come to that conclusion?

 

Plus they seem to be going for the whole if you think Morgan's miserable he can't die, wait for this other dud kind of angle, so apparently it's taxing to be around that long and the guy's got a vicious streak now. He thinks he knows everything because he was literally present for tons of history. Oy, linguistic evolution alone's gotta be a nightmare...

Edited September 26, 2014 by theatremouse

[Snarkette]

This episode really didn't work for me. Watched it due to the promise of the first ep, but all the flaws were magnified and there were few saving graces. I'm just *over* the three-beat "he's the murder" "no she is" "no he is" thing. Gimme some good underlying serial problems to hook me.

 

All the news feeds are treating the slight viewer uptick as "Forever saves Tuesday Nights". I'm sticking around at least until ep 3, but I'm already a bit bored

[lucindabelle]

I'm still in though the mystery kind of sucked.

Are we to now believe Marjorie disappeared too?

[attica]

I seriously would love it if Adam turned out to be an actual Neanderthal. Like Unfrozen Cave Man Lawyer!

[WendyCR72]

I seriously would love it if Adam turned out to be an actual Neanderthal. Like Unfrozen Cave Man Lawyer!

 

That reference made me miss Phil Hartman all over again. Sigh.

[theatremouse]

Are we to now believe Marjorie disappeared too?

Which one's Marjorie? If you mean the wife, I'm just assuming she just died a lot sooner than he'd hoped.

[Sakura12]

The wife is probably supposed to be dead, however tv shows love to do the spouse, sibling, parent you thought was dead is really still alive trope. 

[MDKNIGHT]

Judd Hirsch and main guy had a convo about how the wife MIGHT still be out there with main guy hoping and Judd saying no way.  I interpreted the dialogue and the attitude Judd assumed that wife eventually couldn't take getting old while hubby stayed the same and took off.  Main guy still hopes he can run into her and they can have a relationship as he at least believes he can still love her even if she's an old bag now.  Judd is bitter that she took a powder leaving him motherless.  And I agree that TV tropes DEMAND that she's either STILL alive or had a kid with somebody else who now looks EXACTLY like her and played by the same actress.  There is also an OUTSIDE chance that when she resurfaces she will ALSO be an immortal and was too ashamed about leaving to come back.  I kind of liked the arc on Being Human (American version) where the vampire's wife from the 1700's turned up and it was because she'd been turned into a vampire too but during the initial phase where they are kind of feral she ate thier son so she never contacted him out of guilt. 

 

The phone guy taking the name Adam reminded me of Highlander where the 4 horseman of the apocalypse turned out to be people-ish and one of them, War I think, was the oldest immortal so he liked to be called Adam.  I never did watch that show closely enough to find out exactly how old he was supposed to be.  He couldn't be the actual Adam as the immortals couldn't have children so the human race wouldn't have started (mythologically speaking since it is impossible for us to have ACTUALLY descended from just one man and one woman...our DNA would be messed up due to the level of inbreeding necessary.)

[theatremouse]

Mmm. That does sound like the standard TV trope version but the bit about "being a proper family" for presumably...longer than they were makes me think she can't have left because of the aging and him not doing so. She may have left. But, if Abe was a baby when they first went down the "be a family" path, she was plenty young so it wouldn't make sense to me for her to take off due to visual age differences with her and Morgan until Abe was basically grown. The wistfulness about how they weren't a proper family for as long as he's hoped makes me think Abe would've needed to be fairly young at the time. So, until proven otherwise, that scene makes me think she died, and the hope that she's not totally gone is that she might be immortal, not that she's just regular alive and elsewhere. Or they're being purposefully misleading, because Morgan seemed so sad to me, while Abe was more, I donno, "not worth the effort to keep wondering about" I guess is the vibe he was giving off. So I'm having trouble finding a scenario that jives completely with both of their attitudes. I think they're red-herring-ing at us, wanting the guesses.

[lucindabelle]

Yes she would be in her 90s, he said. So it's possible. I know a bunch o folks that old.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

The episode makes me think that he told the wife the truth and that they stayed together and then something tragic happened and she disappeared which is why the comment about her being 94 so she could still be alive.....Is it possible that she is the voice?  Maybe something happened and she suffers from the same.....uh affliction Henry does.  

 

I like the female detective (Jo?) .  I am not sure Henry and Jo have chemistry yet but I am not sure thy are supposed to be all flirty.  Henry is trying to avoid life and Jo is mourning the death of her husband so the flirty banter would be wrong at this point.  

 

Not sure how I feel about the voiceovers.    Don't think Henry is going to die each episode.  However having him die in the first couple does set up a bit of mythology and is necessary.  

Edited September 27, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[ABay]

An immortal using the cover name Adam? It's Methos! We should be so lucky.

[Shermie]

Well, if TV tropes mean anything, then the long-gone wife will turn up (either as another immortal or it will be her granddaughter that looks just like her, so we won't know until the next episode) right after main guy sleeps with the woman cop, deciding finally to open his heart to love again. You know it, I know it.

[shapeshifter]

...I agree that TV tropes DEMAND that she's either STILL alive or had a kid with somebody else who now looks EXACTLY like her and played by the same actress....

Since they wouldn't be related (assuming he's not the father) they could have a relationship. But it would seem taboo just like foster or adopted siblings would. So it would be better if she was a granddaughter who looked like the 1940s wife, then Henry could be fatherly.

[Hero]

I like this show. Honestly,I only started watching it because I have the biggest crush on Ioan. That man is absolutely gorgeous. I can listen to him speak forever.

[wanderingstar]

This show is a bit of a trifle. But it is nice to see Alana de la Garza again. And I have always liked Ioan Gruffud.

[ZoqFotPik]

 

I seriously would love it if Adam turned out to be an actual Neanderthal. Like Unfrozen Cave Man Lawyer!

That's actually the plot of a movie called "The Man From Earth" staring John Billingsley.

 

 

Voice guy said he is 2000 years old. When we finally get to see him he will not look like somebody who lived 2000 years ago.  Immortals would stick out.  Because of nutrition and life styles and genetics people were much shorter 2000 years ago.

I don't think height has changed that much over the last 2000 years. The average Roman was around 5'5" and Julius Caesar was around 5'7" and considered tall, so only about 2-4 inches shorter than today's average. He would be short, but not to the point where he would stand out.  

 

I think I'm going to give this show one more shot before it becomes a "When nothing else is on show".

 

ETA: I'm glad they definitively answered the "Do his clothes disappear?" question.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ZoqFotPik