Chit-Chat: The Feels

[SeanBug]

34 minutes ago, Makai said:

Impact of Trump tariffs is trending and there are a slew of articles. Sure let’s figure out if is plan is sound after he’s elected because of his economic plan. 

She did. I saw clips of him everywhere including on Fox News a few times. He did a Jubilee episode with undecided voters that was released days before the vote. 

Good. I don't have cable any more so I don't see everything that the campaign did. I never saw the anti trans ads because I don't watch NFL football either. 

Thanks! 

[lookeyloo]

I can't find the original post, but it asked why Buttigieg wasn't used as a surrogate. He was.  He always made it clear when he was on as a surrogate or as Transportation Secretary.  I do remember seeing him multiple times on various news sources and he has been on FOX many times and the comments are always "why do they let him on when he is so good at tearing down their arguments/comments, etc.  

I also agree with the poster who said the country isn't ready for a woman or a gay man.  And, as the mother of a late "sweet son", gay, and Jewish, I doin't think the country is ready for a Jewish second gentlemen or VP as in Josh Shapiro. I base this on what goes on in my own life, what I hear, what people say to me, etc.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

You know Trump and his minions so badly want to say the quiet part out loud.  They can't say we don't want black and brown people to have birthright citizenship but knowing this crowd they very well might.

I saw a clip of Stephen Miller where he pretty much did say the quiet part out loud. What I find fascinating with this issue is the scores of rich Chinese and Russian women who come over to the US to give birth for the sole purpose of getting US citizenship for their child and hightailing it back to China and Russia to raise their child. How do you end birthright citizenship for the poor Mexican, Central American, or South American women who do this, but also grant it to those rich Russian women? 

[Palimelon]

Quote

but also grant it to those rich Russian women? 

Probably hoping the wealth will be generational and you can tax them for it one day. But if there is one thing we have learned is that it's ok for rich people to avoid paying taxes...

Trump has talked about scrapping the US green card lottery program, probably because the majority of green cards in that program end up going to people from non-white countries.

Edited November 8 by Palimelon

[Bookworm13]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

Where can I get a clearer copy of this? 

Clear pic here

[Bookish Jen]

Days later, I'm still so crestfallen about Trump being our 47th President. I remember waltzing (Walzing?) into the polling place, wearing my Chucks and pearls, with such pride and joy. I gladly voted for the Harris/Walz ticket and for other Dems.

Now? I'm eating my feelings, my sleep is sporadic, and I can't concentrate on anything. I'm even taking a couple of weeks off from my blog to mourn and regroup.

At this point, I think it's okay to throw a little pity party for myself and others. We know how awful a Trump presidency can be, especially for those who are not white and wealthy. I'm trying to stay positive and hope things won't go completely off the rails. But I'm not holding my breath.

And in other bad news, my alderman was found dead of an apparent suicide. This is also so crushing. He was a decent man who truly cared about my community.

Everybody, please take care of yourselves.

Edited November 8 by Bookish Jen

[bluegirl147]

6 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

At this point, I think at this point it's okay to throw a little pity party for myself and others.

Yes!  It's OK for us to feel sad.  We are allowed to grieve for a future we thought we were going to have.  I'm not going to let anyone tell me to get over it or fuck my feelings.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

5 hours ago, SeanBug said:

Tressie did a little IG chat to sum up the election and announce she was taking a break for some r&r.  She expanded on the comments about identity politics. Dems have forgotten that white middle class is also an identity.  It's not that white middle class doesn't care about others, but when all they hear is women and minorities, it makes them "feel" like they're left out.  Even if they really aren't. 

I was rather surprised that Harris didn't use Buttigieg as a surrogate during the campaign. Not that he doesn't have a ft job as TransSec, but he's the guy you go to when you want to reach the Fox demographic. 

I really hope he considers a run for office again.  I would love to see him come in and run for Governor of Indiana, but I would also like him to take another stab at POTUS.  People know him now, they see he has federal gov't experience and he ticks a lot of boxes. IMO he's Obama 2.0.  

Like others have said, he was used as a surrogate and very effectively. I think he was on Fox either this weekend or Election Day.

While I sadly agree with others that this country that just elected a sociopath over a black woman is not ready for a gay man as president, I do hope he runs for another high-profile position. We need people like him in government.

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I'm a neurologist.  He is obviously demented based on his debate performance and news reports. 

And even beyond that he had to have done some debate prep. They had to know it wouldn't go well.  Cancel it. Make up an excuse. 

So, basically you’re doing just like the media did and basing your opinion on one performance. Unless you’ve examined him, it’s still just your opinion. 

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I think the republicans swept it under the rug as easily as the democrats swept Tara Reade under the rug (after they maligned her and called her a liar).  At least Trump was honest.  All of it is sickening but it’s not news to women, we are used to it all being swept under the rug.  Doug slapping his ex wife was swept under the rug too.  Harris never even addressed it.

 

That gas bag has never been honest a day in his life. How was he honest? By denying he slept with Stormy Daniels? By saying he couldn’t possibly have assaulted E. Jean Caroll because she wasn’t his type (an obvious lie since he confused her for his ex-wife) ? Tara Reade was called a liar because she’s been proven to lie. 

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t think anyone would have been upset if she was not chosen.  She never clicked with people.  This happens all the time, someone can be bright and amazing but if they don’t click with voters, there is no winning.  
 

That person is not mentally well.  I’m not talking about crazies.  I’m talking about your average family member.  
There is a man who works at a college, he was in the news yesterday for posting online that all Trump supporters should kill themselves.  So there are crazy angry people on both sides.  That’s not what I’m talking about.  
 

 

 

Yes, people would have been upset if she were passed over. Speaking as a black woman myself, I would have been upset. And why are you acting like no one voted for her? Just because she lost, doesn’t mean she didn’t click with people. She clicked with plenty of people.

So, basically people have to fit your definition of “average” for the clear hatred of some people on the right to count.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Yes, people would have been upset if she were passed over

Especially if it was a white man who was picked.

5 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Just because she lost, doesn’t mean she didn’t click with people. She clicked with plenty of people.

I have friends who were going to grudgingly vote for Biden but were thrilled to vote for Harris.  She did inspire people. She fired people up.  She gave us hope.

8 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Tara Reade was called a liar because she’s been proven to lie. 

If there had been any truth to that someone, Trump's team, right wing media, would have have gotten the goods.  And what really gets me about that is people were so quick to believe her story but those same people never believed any of the stories about Trump. Even though he bragged about grabbing women by their genitals.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, partofme said:

Republicans are not good people.  There’s a house by me in NJ that has a flag up since 2020 that says “I voted for Trump, F (spelt out) your feelings”. 

But it’s fact.  Trump lied about it during the campaign and he’s not smart enough to come up with it himself but it was written by Trump’s people and they intend on implementing it.  Bad things are going to happen come January.   Not just to the people they hate but everyone is going to suffer economically under Trump. 

Shit, Vance wrote the forward to Kevin Roberts's, the architect behind Project 2025. Called By Dawn's Early Night, it's a fascist manifesto.

Stinky always says he didn't know about something or hasn't seen it when he knows it's unpopular.

 

Edited November 8 by peacheslatour

[heatherchandler]

23 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Tara Reade was called a liar because she’s been proven to lie. 

Don’t do that.

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

I believed, really believed, that people had seen the light and that good would triumph over evil. I want to slap myself for being so stupid and naive.

People wanted this, and I don't know how much is borne from a genuine belief in this grotesque hellspawn, or how much was just to spite the other side they hate so much. 

And I actually felt guilty, like I hadn't done enough. For the record, my husband and I both voted, and that was all we could have done, but I still felt responsible somehow. I can't remember the last time I felt so goddamn powerless, and I can't even bring myself to imagine what the future will be like.

[partofme]

5 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I believed, really believed, that people had seen the light and that good would triumph over evil. I want to slap myself for being so stupid and naive.

People wanted this, and I don't know how much is borne from a genuine belief in this grotesque hellspawn, or how much was just to spite the other side they hate so much. 

On another board I read there’s a lot of talk about how 18 million less people voted this year than in 2020 despite record gotv and enthusiasm on the ground and there’s a lot of talk about how Dejoy (the Trump appointee who runs the post office) may have thrown out mail in ballots and there are people who checked the status of their mail in ballots that said they were received that after Election Day said they were never received.  

[Spartan Girl]

6 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

And I actually felt guilty, like I hadn't done enough. For the record, my husband and I both voted, and that was all we could have done, but I still felt responsible somehow. I can't remember the last time I felt so goddamn powerless

This is exactly how I feel. I voted and I know that’s all I could’ve done, but I still feel so guilty and helpless. And I’m so goddamn angry at my now-former friend that refused to vote. They didn’t care enough about their rights, let alone mine, to even try. If they voted and we still lost, we at least would’ve lost TOGETHER. But they made their choice and sadly I’ve had to make mine. It was a long time coming for other reasons, but this was one blow too many.

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, partofme said:

On another board I read there’s a lot of talk about how 18 million less people voted this year than in 2020 despite record gotv and enthusiasm on the ground and there’s a lot of talk about how Dejoy (the Trump appointee who runs the post office) may have thrown out mail in ballots and there are people who checked the status of their mail in ballots that said they were received that after Election Day said they were never received.  

I do have my doubts about the count.  We will most likely never know but I can't wrap my head around 18 million fewer people voted.  That just doesn't match up with what we heard about new people registering vote and all the early votes.

Everything seemed to break perfectly for the Republicans and that just seems unbelievable to me. 

[Anela]

17 minutes ago, partofme said:

On another board I read there’s a lot of talk about how 18 million less people voted this year than in 2020 despite record gotv and enthusiasm on the ground and there’s a lot of talk about how Dejoy (the Trump appointee who runs the post office) may have thrown out mail in ballots and there are people who checked the status of their mail in ballots that said they were received that after Election Day said they were never received.  

I’ve seen posts about people checking on the status f ther ballots, in swing states, and they’re being shown that they haven’t been counted yet. 
 

project 2025 is online at - oh wait, they edited the site when word started to spread.  It was online somewhere. 

Edited November 8 by Anela

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, Anela said:

I’ve seen posts about people checking on the status f ther ballots, in swing states, and they’re being shown that they haven’t been counted yet. 
 

project 2025 is online at - oh wait, they edited the site when word started to spread.  It was online somewhere. 

I found it easily. That's odd, I wonder why you're having trouble?

[Gramto6]

I just realized this thread was here. The past few days I have been feeling like I was moving through a thick fog of malaise and thought it was probably the time change. Then I started reading this thread (only up to pg4 right now) and realized it was more like a kind of shell shock! While intellectually, I had a bad feeling this was going to be the outcome of the Presidential vote, I so hoped that it would be different. Sadly, I did feel it likely the success of a Female of color was infinitesimal, I still had hope. I partly blame Biden, for not either withdrawing much earlier giving Harris more time, or for not sticking it out as a male candidate and possibly winning.... Hindsight is always clearer....

As an "old lady with lots of cats"...I sadly, given the mindset nowadays, don't think I will live to see a woman President of the United States. (I really hope to be wrong on this!!)

I worry deeply for future generations that will suffer from the new presidency. I worry for my DD who is a married gay woman, with 3 children conceived through artificial insemination, who occupies the the post of Chief of Police of a major CA city, (a "MAN'S" job). I shudder at what she may have to go through in her position...

I pray we as a country can survive and not be irrevocably harmed by this presidency.

 

Now I'll go back and finish reading everyone else's comments....

 

[kittykat]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

This is exactly how I feel. I voted and I know that’s all I could’ve done, but I still feel so guilty and helpless. And I’m so goddamn angry at my now-former friend that refused to vote. They didn’t care enough about their rights, let alone mine, to even try. If they voted and we still lost, we at least would’ve lost TOGETHER. But they made their choice and sadly I’ve had to make mine. It was a long time coming for other reasons, but this was one blow too many.

I know.  I feel this too.  I can be mad at the Trump voters but in the end, they voted per their rights.  The non voters to me that's just simply inexcusable.

Pretty much had to nope out of reddit since a lot of subs I follow are being bombarded by white male Gen Z voters who just HAD TO vote for Trump because they're tired of being demonized by the left.  Did I miss where we were demonizing all men?  Last I checked women and minorities only wanted an equal chance to have a seat at the table, not overthrow men.  Their takes reek of "you made me do it." I have a headache.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Last I checked women and minorities only wanted an equal chance to have a seat at the table, not overthrow men. 

What is that quote?  When you are used to privilege equality feels like oppression.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

What is that quote?  When you are used to privilege equality feels like oppression.

How does one fight against such hatred?

 

[DrSpaceman73]

Project 2025 is very real, very easy to find and trump knows exactly what is in it because he knows many people who wrote it. 

 

In fact the heritage foundation does such a report for every presidential election. They've been doing it since the early 80s. 

Trump adopted over 60% of project 2017 when he was elected previously. 

 

 

[Palimelon]

Quote

How does one fight against such hatred?

That's not hatred, that's love! We dumb libs just don't get it. We're just too woke to recognize it.

[PRgal]

Birthright citizenship isn't a thing in most parts of the world.  I think Canada is the only other country that has it.  In Britain, for example, you're what your parents are.  I remember taking a semester abroad (sorta) at my university's UK campus.  One of the profs was Canadian but had lived in the UK for years.  Her kids were born there, but her kids aren't British.  They're Canadian.  Because she's not British.

[Calvada]

I am a bit amused at how some people say that these political differences should not affect friendships or family relationships.  How can they not?  To me, this is not like the debate between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan or John McCain and Barack Obama.  I will never understand how people can give their vote to someone who calls white supremacists "very fine" people, with someone who laughs at an 80 year old man nearly being killed by a lunatic with a hammer, with someone who has repeatedly assaulted women, with someone who calls those killed while wearing the uniform of my country suckers, with someone who called January 6, 2021 a day of love, with someone I believe is totally devoid of integrity, honesty, compassion, and decency.  

[DrSpaceman73]

13 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Birthright citizenship isn't a thing in most parts of the world.  I think Canada is the only other country that has it.  In Britain, for example, you're what your parents are.  I remember taking a semester abroad (sorta) at my university's UK campus.  One of the profs was Canadian but had lived in the UK for years.  Her kids were born there, but her kids aren't British.  They're Canadian.  Because she's not British.

Whether it is or not elsewhere it's in the constitution of the US. 

 

And if you want to change that it has to be by constitutional amendment.  Not by executive order. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

Birthright citizenship isn't a thing in most parts of the world.  I think Canada is the only other country that has it. In Britain, for example, you're what your parents are.

The UK had it until late 1982. Many countries in the Americas also have it, along with a few other countries in other parts of the world. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Calvada said:

I am a bit amused at how some people say that these political differences should not affect friendships or family relationships.  How can they not?  To me, this is not like the debate between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan or John McCain and Barack Obama. 

Which is why the people who ended relationships because of a vote for Trump didn't do it when those same loved ones voted for Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, McCain, Romney, etc.  Some of them didn't even do it after the first Trump vote.  Of course he's the only candidate that has resulted in a large number of ended relationships following the election.  Nobody is cutting off Grandma for voting Republican.  Voting for Trump is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Edited November 8 by Bastet

[Notabug]

19 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

What I don't understand is why did they wait for the last possible moment before deciding he's not going to run and why did they not have a plan B. Everybody knew how old he is and how it would be used against him during the campaign. Why not plan for somebody to run instead since the beginning?

This.  We knew 4 years ago that, by the end of his term, Joe Biden was going to be the oldest President in US history.  Had he won, he would've been 85 when he left office.  News flash! There was always a very distinct possibility that he wouldn't make it to the end of his first term, let alone run for another.  Why Democratic strategists didn't realize that and make dam*d sure that Kamala was positioned properly to succeed him is the greatest mystery since the Loch Ness monster.  For example, she was supposed to be leading the charge on the immigration issue.  Yet, it was many months before she even made an appearance at the border, let alone gave a substantive policy speech on immigration.

I think Joe always wanted a second term and insisted that he be given the spotlight, but it's been apparent the last couple years that his age was catching up with him.  At that point, the party leaders needed to sit him down (and Dr Jill who I think wanted  it more than he did) and tell him it was not gonna hapen and they needed to get their ducks in a row by letting Kamala step out from his shadow.  He probably would've hated it, but he's always been a party guy.  Had they done this a couple years ago rather than wait for the wheels to come off the wagon at the 11th hour, we might be singing a different tune now. .  She always needed to be a strong contingency plan and they screwed up royally when they didn't do it. There are also voters who really were put off by the fact that the Democratic primaries were essentially null and void this year and we couldn't afford to lose anyone to that kind of stuff.

Yes, I realize the President-elect is also older than dirt and very possibly even less compos mentis than Biden; but for some reason, his supporters are fazed by it.  His situation is pretty unique in American politics.  The more name-calling he does, the more ridiculous claims he makes, the more he whines and complains; the better they seem to like him.  I got nothin' to explain it.

 

Edited November 8 by Notabug

[Dimity]

31 minutes ago, Notabug said:

His situation is pretty unique in American politics.  The more name-calling he does, the more ridiculous claims he makes, the more he whines and complains; the better they seem to like him.  I got nothin' to explain it.

We seem to have a Trump in training here in Canada which is not wonderful by any means but if this is of any comfort to the Americans posting here, sadly, while Trump is a very special case, it's not as unique as we'd all like it to be. 

There is a growing segment of the population that thrives on hate and dissension.  Civility in politics is becoming a very rare thing indeed.

What we see here (and perhaps this true for other countries as well?) has been an ugly backlash directed against women in politics, to the point where here in Canada many women who had been in office prior to the last election dropped out.  

 

Edited November 8 by Dimity

[Ancaster]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

How does one fight against such hatred?

 

What hell-hole did this take place in?

[Makai]

5 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

What hell-hole did this take place in?

Texas. 

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Makai said:

Texas. 

Yep. Through no fault of my own, I was born there because my dad was stationed at the Air Force Base in San Antonio. As soon as he was discharged, he and my mom ran out of there like their hair was on fire. My mom wouldn't even talk about it.

[Spartan Girl]

I managed to get through most of today until I saw Walz’s speech. Then I started tearing up again.

People are ripping Biden, Harris, Obama for trying to comfort people that we’ll be okay. I get the anger and fear, but what are they supposed to say? “You’re all screwed, goodbye?” They’re better than that. These are the people still fighting for us, or at least trying to. And again, the people that sat out the election do not get to bitch at them when they didn’t do their part.

I’m all for grieving, but we can’t give up. We are just going to have to work harder, like Walz said. It’s not what we wanted, but that’s where we are.

[supposebly]

53 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Why Democratic strategists didn't realize that and make dam*d sure that Kamala was positioned properly to succeed him is the greatest mystery since the Loch Ness monster. 

I always just assumed that was the plan. Beat Trump in 2020 and give Kamala the opportunity and time to position herself as the next candidate, and get people used to a non-white woman possible president. When Biden announced his candidacy, I was quite dismayed.

[Ceindreadh]

12 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I'm sorry that you didn't understand my message 😒

I'm pretty sure that I did understand, but perhaps you could explain it again. 

[Absolom]

On 11/6/2024 at 4:51 PM, kittykat said:

I went to grade school in the 80s/90s and spoiled brats existed then.  There was just no TikTok or Facebook to complain about them back then

Trophy culture was alive and well in the later half of the 80s and continuing on. I think it had it's birth in the 80s.  Retired soccer mom who refused to buy a trophy for a last place team. 

[DXD526]

I think Harris and Walz ran a fine campaign. I don't think any other candidates could have done measurably better. It's simply a fact: a majority of U.S. citizens support hateful policies and want an extreme right wing (fascist?) regime in charge. It's that simple.

The majority has spoken. It's beyond sad and awful, but the majority has spoken. 

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m all for grieving, but we can’t give up. We are just going to have to work harder, like Walz said. It’s not what we wanted, but that’s where we are.

This is how you deal with an election loss.  You mourn, you reflect on where things went wrong,  you accept that it happened and you vow to try to make things turn out differently next time.  And it's exactly what most would have expected from the Dems.

I was dismayed though to read in a few places that some expected the same reaction from the Dems in their loss as was experienced when Trump lost.  No.  When Trump lost in 2020 what happened was not normal.   It was unprecedented.  And it would have happened again had Trump lost.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, Dimity said:

This is how you deal with an election loss.  You mourn, you reflect on where things went wrong,  you accept that it happened and you vow to try to make things turn out differently next time.  And it's exactly what most would have expected from the Dems.

I was dismayed though to read in a few places that some expected the same reaction from the Dems in their loss as was experienced when Trump lost.  No.  When Trump lost in 2020 what happened was not normal.   It was unprecedented.  And it would have happened again had Trump lost.

And probably been even worse and more violent.

[Suzn]

On 11/6/2024 at 5:08 PM, Soapy Goddess said:

Isn't that just another form of prejudice?

Pretty much in the same way that I couldn't be friends with a serial killer.

 

[27bored]

4 hours ago, Calvada said:

I am a bit amused at how some people say that these political differences should not affect friendships or family relationships.  How can they not?  To me, this is not like the debate between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan or John McCain and Barack Obama.  I will never understand how people can give their vote to someone who calls white supremacists "very fine" people, with someone who laughs at an 80 year old man nearly being killed by a lunatic with a hammer, with someone who has repeatedly assaulted women, with someone who calls those killed while wearing the uniform of my country suckers, with someone who called January 6, 2021 a day of love, with someone I believe is totally devoid of integrity, honesty, compassion, and decency.  

Respectfully, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but the way someone like this gets re-elected is by his detractors not actually being any better than he is. 

There are a few age-old phrases that this election has caused me to revisit, namely "when you seek to get revenge, you better dig two graves" and "when you point the finger, you have three more pointing back at you".

See, too many people treat politics like college football (not directing this at you) and that's why a lot of people misread the room and get things wrong.

It's not enough to keep and hold receipts against the party or politicians you like. I'm sure Republicans could easily rattle off a list of unforgivable, unconscionable things Biden and Kamala have said or done as a basis for them never supporting them, but that's not how elections are won. Because surprise surprise, people seem to find forgiveness for people on their side of the aisle, if they even notice the grave offense of the action or statement in the first place.

The most insightful tweet I've ever read about Trump said "Trump's great gift is his ability to get his enemies to show in wildly obvious ways that he's as bad as they say they are". I don't say that to kiss his ass, I don't even think he realizes it, but it's insightful because his detractors seem to consistently go above and beyond to demonstrate his villainy and awfulness that they wind up making themselves look bad by comparison.

I thought Kamala did well for the hand she was dealt, and I too am disappointed. But I also realize she was put up to be the face of the political karma the Democrats have been staring down for the past eight years. Every opportunity they had to ignore Trump, to not get into a lawfare battle with him, not get into another cat fight with him where he says something to troll or puff himself up and they have to repeat it, to not insult his supporters (literally half the country)...they skipped it because no, they couldn't let it go, couldn't let it slide, couldn't just move on. 

At some point it went from "Trump said something awful" to "Trump's just being Trump" and his detractors didn't notice. Instead of gamely documenting every comment he made, it was time to actually address the people's concerns (jobs, housing, the economy), not make the people care about their concerns (which is Trump as a political threat). 

The result is Trump winds up looking less bad because his detractors don't seem any better. People are supposed to care about Trump's treatment of women they watched the Tara Reade story go poof right in front of their faces. They're supposed to care about Trump being this remorseless liar when the media covered for Biden's cognitive for years until his single debate performance. They're supposed to care about Trump's "crimes" when Hillary and Biden had classified documents in their possession and neither were charged. Or even Biden's "garbage" comments a few days prior to the election. It's like, we can't win elections if we do this constant back-and-forth score-keeping thing between politicians and the media and expecting people to keep watching like a dog watching a Ping Pong match. 

I really hope I'm not speaking out of turn here and I'm not trying to bash or insult or anything. I just hope this election produces more introspection and self-awareness when it comes to our politics. 

[Dimity]

22 minutes ago, 27bored said:

They're supposed to care about Trump being this remorseless liar when the media covered for Biden's cognitive for years until his single debate performance.

I disagree with you on this.  If anything the media has 'sane washed' Trump while eagerly documenting every gaffe made by Biden and making even the most simple slip of the tongue into a major deal.

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah miss me with the different standards for Democrats and how they need to change, while the Republicans have quadrupled down on everything. 

[bluegirl147]

14 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I disagree with you on this.  If anything the media has 'sane washed' Trump while eagerly documenting every gaffe made by Biden and making even the most simple slip of the tongue into a major deal.

100% agree.  No matter what Trump did the media would just categorize it as Trump being Trump.  But if Hillary coughed it was she has some serious health issue and covering it up.  If Biden misspoke it was he has dementia.   If Kamala laughed she was unserious and not fit to be President. 

And it's easy to criticize Democrats for what they should have done differently but why aren't we talking about  the Republicans and how they have enabled Trump for the past eight years.  Without them doing his bidding he wouldn't have been able to run again.  

@Spartan Girl great minds and all that.

Edited November 9 by bluegirl147

[27bored]

22 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I disagree with you on this.  If anything the media has 'sane washed' Trump while eagerly documenting every gaffe made by Biden and making even the most simple slip of the tongue into a major deal.

To the extent hat this might be true, I think that's after years of giving him the villain edit and seeing that it hasn't diminished his standing. If anything, they wound up turning him into a martyr. I've said time and time again: if you don't want someone to be a big deal, but make a big deal about them. 

15 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah miss me with the different standards for Democrats and how they need to change, while the Republicans have quadrupled down on everything. 

Well, I mean, Trump just won the popular vote and Republicans now control both chambers of Congress. I'm not trying to make some couples-counseling type point here. After elections and bitter defeats, it's incumbent upon the side that lost to do some introspection and see where they went wrong.

13 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And it's easy to criticize Democrats for what they should have done differently but why aren't we talking about  the Republicans and how they have enabled Trump for the past eight years.  Without them doing his bidding he wouldn't have been able to run again.  

The RNC can't dictate to the party whom they should like. I'm almost certain the establishment would prefer a more put together, retail politician who stays on message than someone like Trump. I bet they cried into their drink when DeSantis didn't overtake Trump. But that's how it goes. 

I will say, a lot of Republicans probably "put up with" Trump because they figure it wouldn't be all that different if he were less controversial. Politics is about power -- obtaining it, keeping it, wielding it. Next decade once Trump is in the rear view, there will be another Big Bad who is a threat to democracy and must be stopped. It is what it is.

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

Respectfully, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but the way someone like this gets re-elected is by his detractors not actually being any better than he is. 

There are a few age-old phrases that this election has caused me to revisit, namely "when you seek to get revenge, you better dig two graves" and "when you point the finger, you have three more pointing back at you".

See, too many people treat politics like college football (not directing this at you) and that's why a lot of people misread the room and get things wrong.

It's not enough to keep and hold receipts against the party or politicians you like. I'm sure Republicans could easily rattle off a list of unforgivable, unconscionable things Biden and Kamala have said or done as a basis for them never supporting them, but that's not how elections are won. Because surprise surprise, people seem to find forgiveness for people on their side of the aisle, if they even notice the grave offense of the action or statement in the first place.

The most insightful tweet I've ever read about Trump said "Trump's great gift is his ability to get his enemies to show in wildly obvious ways that he's as bad as they say they are". I don't say that to kiss his ass, I don't even think he realizes it, but it's insightful because his detractors seem to consistently go above and beyond to demonstrate his villainy and awfulness that they wind up making themselves look bad by comparison.

I thought Kamala did well for the hand she was dealt, and I too am disappointed. But I also realize she was put up to be the face of the political karma the Democrats have been staring down for the past eight years. Every opportunity they had to ignore Trump, to not get into a lawfare battle with him, not get into another cat fight with him where he says something to troll or puff himself up and they have to repeat it, to not insult his supporters (literally half the country)...they skipped it because no, they couldn't let it go, couldn't let it slide, couldn't just move on. 

At some point it went from "Trump said something awful" to "Trump's just being Trump" and his detractors didn't notice. Instead of gamely documenting every comment he made, it was time to actually address the people's concerns (jobs, housing, the economy), not make the people care about their concerns (which is Trump as a political threat). 

The result is Trump winds up looking less bad because his detractors don't seem any better. People are supposed to care about Trump's treatment of women they watched the Tara Reade story go poof right in front of their faces. They're supposed to care about Trump being this remorseless liar when the media covered for Biden's cognitive for years until his single debate performance. They're supposed to care about Trump's "crimes" when Hillary and Biden had classified documents in their possession and neither were charged. Or even Biden's "garbage" comments a few days prior to the election. It's like, we can't win elections if we do this constant back-and-forth score-keeping thing between politicians and the media and expecting people to keep watching like a dog watching a Ping Pong match. 

I really hope I'm not speaking out of turn here and I'm not trying to bash or insult or anything. I just hope this election produces more introspection and self-awareness when it comes to our politics. 

I'm really at a loss as to how anything Biden or Harris did compares to any of the most horrific things 45 did. Or how pointing out his horrific words and actions makes them look worse? How exactly do you sugarcoat someone who actively says he wants to be a dictator and admires dictators or admires anything about Hitler?

Lawfare is not an actual thing. It's just a BS word that the criminal invented. He wasn't being investigated because he was an opponent. He was being investigated because he's a CRIMINAL. 

The Tara Reade thing doesn't compare to 45's vile treatment of women. That was one accuser - who it was clear was a Russian asset. Versus a plethora of women. Including a woman who took the case to court and won. Biden is certainly not on the record saying he can grab women by the pussy when he wants. 

The media did not cover for Biden's alleged decline. They laser-focused on any gaffe or mistake he made, meanwhile normalizing 45's sociopathic behavior and the dribbling nonsense that came out of his mouth. 

I'm not sure why you're putting "crimes" in quotes since the convict is just that - a convicted felon. His being a criminal is not a theory. I guess you didn't pay attention to the media during 2016. "But her emails" was basically the media's rallying cry. She was investigated and cleared. What Biden and the convicted felon did are not the same thing. Biden didn't take classified materials and stuff them in his bathroom deliberately. He didn't think being vice president meant that he was allowed to take whatever he wanted. When he realized he had classified materials, he handed them over without hesitation. Unlike the racist-in-chief, who not only refused several requests for the material. He actively tried to hide them.

Biden's "garbage" comment was covered ad nauseum. He was talking about the comic who called Puerto Rico garbage. It wasn't as if he called all of his detractors enemies he wanted the military to go after. That was the psychopath who just got elected.

The problem was the media both-sidesing all of this. They normalized that psychopath to the point that people really are acting like any of his behavior was normal or in any way comparable to what Democrats, or even prior Republicans, have done.

Edited November 9 by FilmTVGeek80

[Makai]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah miss me with the different standards for Democrats and how they need to change, while the Republicans have quadrupled down on everything. 

I agree. It’s crazy to me that these discussions are happening when one side provoked people to literally storm the capital with the intent to assassinate the sitting Vice President for doing his job. Vance talked about taking the right to vote away from women. Trump talked about wanting to use the military against his domestic enemies. He praised dictators. He stopped an immigration bill that had by partisan support because he cared more about his ability to campaign on immigration than fixing immigration. He talked about putting Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad. He tried to stop the 2020 vote. He told outright and inflammatory lies time and time again. Including lies that threatened the lives of legal immigrants trying to live in a city that invited them.

Women are literally dying due to the abortion ban. Women are trying to figure out how to get sterilized out of fear they will get pregnant, accidentally or from an assault, in a state/country that takes away their right to choose. Or because a non-viable pregnancy could be a death sentence or lead to criminal charges. Women with wanted pregnancies in red states are afraid they will have unexpected health issues and be unable to receive medical care because doctors are afraid to treat them. 

And the crazy thing is that I could go on. And Trump does not care. He is a president that doesn’t care about a large chunk of his constituents. 

Edited November 9 by Makai

[Enigma X]

People can analyze this to death if they must. I am going to stick with most of his voters simply weren't going to vote for a half Black/half Southeast Asian woman. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

5 minutes ago, 27bored said:

To the extent hat this might be true, I think that's after years of giving him the villain edit and seeing that it hasn't diminished his standing. If anything, they wound up turning him into a martyr. I've said time and time again: if you don't want someone to be a big deal, but make a big deal about them.

The "villain edit"? How did they give him the "villain edit"? By reporting on the abhorrent things that he did? The media already does enough sanewashing of 45. Were they supposed to completely ignore his serial crime spree? Were they supposed to ignore him being held liable for sexual assault? Should they have completely ignored him being cool, with a bunch of his supporters wanting to murder his vice president? 

 

9 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Well, I mean, Trump just won the popular vote and Republicans now control both chambers of Congress. I'm not trying to make some couples-counseling type point here. After elections and bitter defeats, it's incumbent upon the side that lost to do some introspection and see where they went wrong.

I guess it's only up to the Democrats to do this. When the Republicans lose, it's okay for them to foment an insurrection. Then they get rewarded by being elected again. No introspection for them. 

45 lost in 2020. I don't buy some "Oh, people really like him and think he's a martyr, and the mean Dems were just too mean to him" rationale. The biggest difference between then and now is economic concerns. Unfortunately, an uninformed public decided to romanticize 45's time in office. They chose to ignore the fact that a big reason we have these economic issues is because of how badly that psychotic mishandled the COVID pandemic.