S02.E03: You Don’t Have To Understand

[DanaK]

Quote

TUESDAY, MARCH 5 8:00-9:00 p.m. EST

With several civilians dead and one woman missing, Will and Faith question a suspicious pastor ahead of the councilman's ribbon-cutting ceremony. Meanwhile, Angie joins Ormewood back in the field to investigate a sauna murder.

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

 

[AnimeMania]

Jerod Haynes as pastor
Ricardo Chavira as Councilman Victor Carrey

[possibilities]

Oremwood hasn't learned a thing. When Angie is more clued in to how relationships work, you know you're really clueless.

The hatred dripping off Will in his early interactions with the pastor was palpable. Mmmmmn, mmmmn, I love good acting.

Do people really have trouble understanding Amanda? I saw folks saying that in the forums, so I was trying to pay attention to it tonight, and she didn't seem to me to be speaking quickly. Was it slower today, or do I just have an ear for her voice? I do think her voice is softer than others. I don't know if it's a deliberate character thing or if they just need to mic her better.

I thought this week was better than the previous two, but I'm still bothered by the Cricket story. 

[AnimeMania]

I am not sure I understood the motives of the Councilman's wife. Did she flipout after the Councilman learned that she attempted to kill Isabella. Why did she wait so long? Did the Councilman's wife bust down the door to the safehouse, kidnap Isabella and bring her to their home, for what reason? Why didn't she kill Isabella, why did she kill her husband. Like I said I am not seeing where the Councilman's wife was going, what was her endgame?

[Starchild]

I was wondering if maybe the Councilman found Isabella and brought her to the house, and that's when the wife flipped out.

[Sarah 103]

Will and Angie are simultaneously the best and worst person in each other's life. Angie encouraging Will to deal with what happened is great, because she is the only one he might actually listen to. Will helping Angie hide her pain is a bad idea. 

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

I was wondering if maybe the Councilman found Isabella and brought her to the house, and that's when the wife flipped out.

That would fit with him saying "I was trying to save her!" when he ran out of the house.

[Driad]

Maybe the Councilman's wife had just learned that the Councilman was the father of Isabella's baby, and that's when the wife flipped out.

[AnimeMania]

25 minutes ago, Driad said:

Maybe the Councilman's wife had just learned that the Councilman was the father of Isabella's baby, and that's when the wife flipped out.

She had to have known before because Trent said the Councilman's wife was the one that sent the first assassin after Isabella.

[Badsamaritan]

It appears that the councilman knew she was pregnant but the wife only recently found out he was the father. The councilman found her at the safe house and stupidly brought her to his home, I think because he didn't know his wife was the one trying to kill her. I assume when the husband brought her to his home, he and the wife started having it out. So, the wife was distracted by her cheating husband while the young woman began going into labor. And that's when Will and Faith showed up, and the wife didn't have time to kill the pregnant girlfriend so she took out her cheating bastard husband. Of course she wanted to be First Lady so she was willing to overlook his infidelity but she couldn't have his mistress and baby running around to possibly throw a wrench into her plans. 

I enjoyed Will's back and forth with the pastor - I wish he didn't have a felony murder hanging over his head. I would have enjoyed seeing them continue to spar while Will was also getting a form of therapy from their interactions. So I guess this is the season we shouldn't get attached to any new people (except Angie's damaged teenagers because of course she gets to keep hers so they can pop up for storyline purposes because we can never get enough of her chaos 😑) because the show is just gonna send them to jail or blow them up. 😒

Which is really too bad because they could lift Ormewood right out. He's a total cliché and maybe I shouldn't but, I expected better from the writers. I don't care about him in any way and consequently I don't care about his home life. He could just be Angie's partner that we see every once in a while, he gets a few lines and then goes away for the rest of the episode. The last thing I want is either Faith or Amanda to be sidelined for his sorry ass character that's a dime a dozen on every cop show ever. 

I really loved the end, with Will and Amanda 'just sitting'. I imagine she was remembering finding him when she was asking about how it felt to deliver the baby, which, that was intense and Ramón did a wonderful job conveying Will's emotions. I know it may not be in their character but, I would love to see a hug between Will and Amanda. Hell, I'll take any kind of affection between them - a pat on the arm, squeezing of a hand, anything at all honestly. Because Sonia is absolutely playing Amanda as still loving Will and considers herself his surrogate mom. I hope Will realizes and accepts that they are family, and he has someone outside of Angie who loves him.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

I was sad that the Pastor was being sent away.  But glad that Will put in a good word for him.  I hope the Pastor gets a minimum sentence so he can continue to do his good work.  The face that Will was so initially hostile to the pastor is a point we’re going to revisit as the season goes on.  I hope it’s not what I fear it is.

The MOTW were pretty easy and a little cliche, but that makes sense because the real stories were Will’s feelings and what he went through.  It was so funny at moments when he was with the pregnant woman- and then how it transformed into something very intense and, dare I say, joyful.

And loved how Amanda and Will had the moment of just sitting.

[dleighg]

21 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Ricardo Chavira as Councilman Victor Carrey

thank you for that! I was sure he was familiar to me and I didn't catch his credit. I looked him up and, nope, I've never seen him before LOL. But I am half face-blind so that happens a lot.

 

3 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

 It was so funny at moments when he was with the pregnant woman

Because I pay attention to stupid details, this woman in labor is still fully dressed. She says that Will has to look "down there" and apparently she's taken off her panties, but left all of her other clothes on? Seemed unlikely. And then I was mad that Will just hung onto the baby doing googly eyes instead of handing him to her!

[Badsamaritan]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

thank you for that! I was sure he was familiar to me and I didn't catch his credit. I looked him up and, nope, I've never seen him before LOL. But I am half face-blind so that happens a lot.

He played Carlos Solis on Desperate Housewives. He was Eva Longoria's husband. 

[dleighg]

15 minutes ago, Badsamaritan said:

He played Carlos Solis on Desperate Housewives

Never watched that. Oh I know! I think he looks like Trump's attorney LOL

[dramachick]

5 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

The last thing I want is either Faith or Amanda to be sidelined for his sorry ass character that's a dime a dozen on every cop show ever. 

True that.

 

[tennisgurl]

Its too bad that the pastor had to get arrested at the end, its like every time Will meets someone cool something bad happens to them right after. At least Will spoke up for him, hopefully they will take his good works into account. Will was about vibrating with anger every time he talked to him, he was so ready for him to be guilty of something. I was looking forward to him being a reoccurring character who has some interesting debates with Will, but of course Will just cant have nice things. I am guessing that Will has some pretty major religious trauma in his past which I think we'll be getting to soon, poor guy has been through a lot lately. 

I guessed that the politician was the baby daddy and the wife or the aid was the killer as soon as we met them, but I still liked how things played out. It was really less about the mystery and more about exploring Will, his issues with faith, his trauma, and finding some relief after helping deliver the baby. If I understand right, the politician, who was the baby daddy, went to the safe house and got Isabella, presumably to protect her from whoever was trying to kill her, not knowing it was his wife, and she lost it when she saw her. 

Ormewood really hasn't learned his lesson at all has he? He had to have Angie of all people spell out to him that everything isn't all fine and dandy at home just because he's done the bare minimum as a husband and father. Its really too bad so much time this season has given to his domestic drama, everything else has been so good. I would much rather give Faith a bigger subplot. 

Loved Will and Amanda taking a moment to just be quiet, that was such a nice cap on Will's many feels in this episode.

[dramachick]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Its too bad that the pastor had to get arrested at the end, its like every time Will meets someone cool something bad happens to them right after. At least Will spoke up for him, hopefully they will take his good works into account. Will was about vibrating with anger every time he talked to him, he was so ready for him to be guilty of something. I was looking forward to him being a reoccurring character who has some interesting debates with Will, but of course Will just cant have nice things. I am guessing that Will has some pretty major religious trauma in his past which I think we'll be getting to soon, poor guy has been through a lot lately. 

They seem to be following the Peaky Blinders rule: Tommy [Will] can't be happy.

Edited March 6 by dramachick
to correct grammar

[mrsbagnet]

My favorite side moment was Dr. Pete being petty because they didn't bring him any cake. 😂

Ormewood was sooo proud of himself for going to grocery store and dropping the kids off at school. Aww, look at him, finally being a parent.

Edited March 6 by mrsbagnet

[Snazzy Daisy]

I like and understand the sauna case better than the cheating case.

I also like seeing Angie and Michael working together, solving a case. Based on Angie’s reaction, I guess we are moving towards Gina’s depression arc. Can this be handled offscreen, please. Really not interested in Michael’s domestic life.

This episode title applies perfectly to Isabella’s case. We don’t have all the details, we have to make some assumptions to understand the case. The show wants us to focus on its impact on Will - his faith and his feeling after delivering that baby. Maybe he can now understand or relate to what young Amanda must’ve felt when she first met baby Will and when her hope was crushed for not being able to adopt him. FFS Will, she gave you her mother's maiden name, hug her now. I love the tender moment between Will and Amanda at the end, just sitting there.

But my favorite part of this episode is when Will and Betty show up to support Angie at her physical exam, and Will/Angie see right through each other’s facade.

WILL: “You know she doesn’t really like you, right?”

ME: “I get you, Betty. She isn’t my favorite person either.” 🤣

 

Betty…always a stylish girl! 💙 

[DearEvette]

Amanda scolding Will as they rose in that lift felt less boss-to-employee and sounded way more mom-to-son. 

Aw poor Wiil.  "Your Lamp is broken let me fix it."  So not fair.  We deserved nice things too.

Regarding Will with the Pastor: On the one hand, I am kinda with Will.  I've known too many shady Pastors not to right where Will is with that Pastor.  But in the other hand the actor was so good I really wanted him to prove that he wasn't the con man Will thought he was.

"That man stinks of baby daddy." LOL.  Faith had the same look on her face whenever she looked at the Councilman that Will had when he looked at the pastor.

'Aufgussmeister' Huh.  A word I did not know existed til today and now I will never forget.

Joel is dumb.  He did not have to confess.  Any evidence they had on him was circumstantial at best. A good lawyer could have spun it.

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Joel is dumb.  He did not have to confess.  Any evidence they had on him was circumstantial at best. A good lawyer could have spun it

I agree. That was the standard trope of people being too eager to confess. I also thought during his "good bye to dad" he was going to grab one of those patches and off himself. I guess he lacked the sauna though....

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I was looking forward to him being a reoccurring character who has some interesting debates with Will,

Me too!

[Starchild]

5 hours ago, dleighg said:

And then I was mad that Will just hung onto the baby doing googly eyes instead of handing him to her!

Me too!

[sharifa70]

5 hours ago, dleighg said:

And then I was mad that Will just hung onto the baby doing googly eyes instead of handing him to her!

She was unconscious.

[DEL901]

29 minutes ago, sharifa70 said:

She was unconscious.

I was worried she’d died and we’d get one of those orphan adoption stories…and Will is not in a position for that.   

[peeayebee]

12 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Which is really too bad because they could lift Ormewood right out. He's a total cliché and maybe I shouldn't but, I expected better from the writers. I don't care about him in any way and consequently I don't care about his home life. He could just be Angie's partner that we see every once in a while, he gets a few lines and then goes away for the rest of the episode. The last thing I want is either Faith or Amanda to be sidelined for his sorry ass character that's a dime a dozen on every cop show ever.  

That all would work for me!

I really enjoyed this ep. The cases weren't all that complicated, but the ep was interesting and there were good character moments.

Amanda looked so different, softer, sitting there at the end with Will.

[fastiller]

In the shallow end of the pool here (fashion): Amanda's coat at the beginning of the ep (which I think we may've seen before): gorgeous.  

More thoughts later.

[Orbert]

Angie's speedy recovery meant that she and Ormewood were back together pursuing B-stories.  I'd actually forgotten about that, and when they were investigating the sauna murder, I was wondering how it would tie into the pregnant woman and councilman babydaddy.  (Spoiler: It didn't.)  I agree that we could do with less of them and more of Faith and Amanda.  We barely saw Faith (uppercase "F") this episode.

I just don't see why they feel like there has to be an A story for Will and Faith and a B story for Angie and Ormewood.  I know, that's the basic template for these ensemble crime shows, but if they really want Will Trent (the show) to be different, break away from that mold.  Come up with a compelling MOTW and fill things out with the interpersonal stuff.  I'm sure it can be done.  I think stories around Will, Faith, Amanda, and yes, Angie, should be plenty.  Between them,  and Will's home life with Betty and Nico, there's already nearly too much going on; we don't also need the adventures of Angie and Ormewood that tie up too neatly and quickly because they really don't want to spend a lot of time on them, but feel like they have to.  Just drop the B stories completely.

And ditto regarding Ormewood's home life.  I don't really care about Ormewood, so I care even less about his marital troubles.

Edit: Oh yeah, Dr. Pete was great.  Why should you be allowed to eat cake in "his" morgue if you didn't bring him any?

Edited March 7 by Orbert

[roughing it]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:45 PM, possibilities said:

Do people really have trouble understanding Amanda? I saw folks saying that in the forums, so I was trying to pay attention to it tonight, and she didn't seem to me to be speaking quickly. Was it slower today, or do I just have an ear for her voice?

This episode Amanda did speak slower.  I'm one of the complainers regarding this and I appreciated that this time it was easier to understand her.

[kaygeeret]

Dr. Pete and the cake was so unexpected that I laughed out loud when he made them toss theirs and get on with the case.  Great moment

That scene alone made up for the Ormwood  bits.

I don't mind a B plot, but the home life "drama" has got to go.  Angie and Orm can go on solving.

 

 

[Pepper the Cat]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

This episode Amanda did speak slower.  I'm one of the complainers regarding this and I appreciated that this time it was easier to understand her.

I have to use closed captioning to understand her

[SnapHappy]

They've got to keep Ormwood in a few storylines, otherwise the show is too female-heavy, with only Will.  

You've got 4 alpha females with Angie, Faith, Betty and Amanda, who all seem to revolve around Will.  But then, the show IS called "Will Trent".

Angie is newly sober & needs to NOT be sexually involved with any men right now.  Her relationships need to be strictly platonic, but we know that isn't going to happen.

[Orbert]

Good point about Ormewood being the only other male in the main cast.  I may still be biased against him from those first couple episodes where basically everyone was being a jerk to Will.  He's done some good stuff since then, but they've also sprinkled in some not-good stuff as well, so I guess that puts him somewhere in the middle.  But mostly he just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

You've got 4 alpha females with Angie, Faith, Betty and Amanda, who all seem to revolve around Will.  But then, the show IS called "Will Trent".

I love that you included Betty on this list.  Damn right, she is an alpha female!

6 minutes ago, Orbert said:

Good point about Ormewood being the only other male in the main cast.  I may still be biased against him from those first couple episodes where basically everyone was being a jerk to Will.  He's done some good stuff since then, but they've also sprinkled in some not-good stuff as well, so I guess that puts him somewhere in the middle.  But mostly he just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Ormewood definitely rubs me wrong.  He is an adulterer who actually brought the woman he slept with into his house. He does lazy police work. He abuses his position. That said, I appreciate that a cop show is showcasing a main character who isn't a poster child for Copaganda.  They let him walk in the grey area and I appreciate that nuance. I actually hope they don't reform him too much.

[possibilities]

God forbid there should be a show where most of the characters are women! After all the shows with majority male casts, we can't possibly let one slip by that breaks the pattern! Even if the main character is male! 

 

[NJRadioGuy]

I always enjoy stories where a central character has issues with faith/religion, and I have to say this episode was very well done. Two excellent actors pulled it off wonderfully. But with that said, nothing will ever beat the Jesuit-raised Det. Pembelton's issues with Catholicism in Homicide: Life On The Street. Those scenes in specific cemeted Andre Braugher as one of my favourite actors of all time, and it was also some of that show's best writing as well. I'm really hoping this show can occasionally explore these themes since Ramón has the chops to pull it off.

[Badsamaritan]

6 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

They've got to keep Ormwood in a few storylines, otherwise the show is too female-heavy, with only Will.  

You've got 4 alpha females with Angie, Faith, Betty and Amanda, who all seem to revolve around Will.  But then, the show IS called "Will Trent".

I'd take more of Franklin, Kevin Daniels' character. He was Ormewood's partner in the S2 premiere while Angie was out, and I loved him calling Ormewood a bitch at the crime scene when he tried to order Franklin around. And, I could swear in the first season they mentioned that he was Angie's sponsor, so let's bring him into focus. I really can't stand the Ormewood character, he's just such a fuckin cliché. I wish they made him either happily married with no Angie baggage or gay because his current form is really irking my spirit. 

[SnapHappy]

5 hours ago, Orbert said:

Good point about Ormewood being the only other male in the main cast.  I may still be biased against him from those first couple episodes where basically everyone was being a jerk to Will.  He's done some good stuff since then, but they've also sprinkled in some not-good stuff as well, so I guess that puts him somewhere in the middle.  But mostly he just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Agreed, Ormwood is still obnoxious, and is not necessary to the main storylines.  I'd like them to sub in a few more folks. 

Franklin sounds like a great idea, since he's not just appearing out of nowhere.  And Angie needs a sponsor to straighten her out a bit more.  

I wonder how many times we're going to have to see her spiral and scrape bottom.  

 

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

God forbid there should be a show where most of the characters are women! After all the shows with majority male casts, we can't possibly let one slip by that breaks the pattern! Even if the main character is male! 

 

Only because most writers ramp up the emotional level of mostly-female casts, and they tend to get written as shrieking hags.  We've seen it plenty of times. 

I like seeing strong women, just not as the only characters on screen.  There have been a few female buddy-cop shows that were good, Cagney & Lacey, Rizzoli & Isles.  But they are exceptions to the rules. 

Edited March 8 by SnapHappy

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

\But with that said, nothing will ever beat the Jesuit-raised Det. Pembelton's issues with Catholicism in Homicide: Life On The Street. Those scenes in specific cemeted Andre Braugher as one of my favourite actors of all time, and it was also some of that show's best writing as well.

I've seen only one ep of that series, and I would love to watch more. Unfortunately, it's not streaming anyway. Criminal.

[Orbert]

Ah yes, I forgot about Franklin.  He seems like a good guy.  I could handle more of him and less of Ormewood.

[AnimeMania]

Next New Episode: March 26, 2024       

[juliet73]

On 3/6/2024 at 3:29 PM, mrsbagnet said:

Ormewood was sooo proud of himself for going to grocery store and dropping the kids off at school. Aww, look at him, finally being a parent.

He's the worst!  I would have preferred him blowing up instead of Cricket!

On 3/5/2024 at 8:45 PM, possibilities said:

Do people really have trouble understanding Amanda? I saw folks saying that in the forums, so I was trying to pay attention to it tonight, and she didn't seem to me to be speaking quickly. Was it slower today, or do I just have an ear for her voice? I do think her voice is softer than others. I don't know if it's a deliberate character thing or if they just need to mic her better.

Maybe it's because her voice is deep and breathy, yet soft.  When she gets riled up though, I think she speaks faster.  I could understand how it could be difficult to hear her sometimes when all four all going at the same time.  On a vain note, she and Faith always dress so stylish!  They need to give Angie some wardrobe pointers and also tell her shave her arm pits...or at least trim them up!!! 

Even though I thought Will held the baby a bit too long while the mother was still conscious, it was a very sweet scene watching him be so emotional.

[peachmangosteen]

That reminded me, love that Angie/EQ doesn't shave her arm pits. You go, girl!

[Acmeproducts]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:39 AM, peachmangosteen said:

That reminded me, love that Angie/EQ doesn't shave her arm pits. You go, girl!

I love that.

[LuvMyShows]

On 3/5/2024 at 3:47 PM, AnimeMania said:

Ricardo Chavira as Councilman Victor Carrey

In addition to his re-appearance since Desperate Housewives, we had a re-appearance of Jennifer Westfeldt (the councilman's wife) from Younger, where she was the wife-becoming-ex-wife of Charles.

On 3/5/2024 at 9:45 PM, possibilities said:

Do people really have trouble understanding Amanda? I saw folks saying that in the forums, so I was trying to pay attention to it tonight, and she didn't seem to me to be speaking quickly.

I figured out that for me, the difficulty comes at the end of her sentences. Because of her low, whispery-type of voice, and people naturally dropping a bit at the end of sentences, it combines to make some of her words hard to understand.

On 3/6/2024 at 8:58 AM, Badsamaritan said:

I enjoyed Will's back and forth with the pastor - I wish he didn't have a felony murder hanging over his head. I would have enjoyed seeing them continue to spar while Will was also getting a form of therapy from their interactions. 

It would be great if they would actually continue the interactions while the pastor is in prison. I could see Will dictating long diatribes to him, and either them letting the pastor exchange tape recordings with Will, or Will using some Google/AI-assisted product to transcribe his recordings to text.

On 3/6/2024 at 8:58 AM, Badsamaritan said:

Because Sonia is absolutely playing Amanda as still loving Will and considers herself his surrogate mom. I hope Will realizes and accepts that they are family, and he has someone outside of Angie who loves him.  

And has someone to be his family, besides his lunatic possible father.

On 3/6/2024 at 1:02 PM, dleighg said:

Because I pay attention to stupid details, this woman in labor is still fully dressed. She says that Will has to look "down there" and apparently she's taken off her panties, but left all of her other clothes on? Seemed unlikely. 

I couldn't make sense of why Will was wanting her to stop moaning so loudly. The wife knew she was downstairs, so moaning isn't giving away any location information. If anything, it was helpful, because it masked any sounds that Faith would have made walking around.

On 3/6/2024 at 3:48 PM, tennisgurl said:

Ormewood really hasn't learned his lesson at all has he? He had to have Angie of all people spell out to him that everything isn't all fine and dandy at home just because he's done the bare minimum as a husband and father. 

It was stunning that he recited all those accomplishments that he was so proud of, and then didn't connect that what he needs to do to really make a difference in his marriage, goes beyond just doing deeds like that. 

On 3/8/2024 at 10:29 AM, DearEvette said:

That said, I appreciate that a cop show is showcasing a main character who isn't a poster child for Copaganda.  

Oooh, I learned a new word today!

[kaygeeret]

Sorry, but I really have to ask.

What does Copaganda mean?

🤔

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

What does Copaganda mean?

It's a combination of cop and propaganda.  It refers to cop shows that almost always put cops in a good light, especially if they're the main characters. They only want justice and aren't influenced by biases.  They're good family people.  All force is justified and necessary force.  Even when they do go over top, the show will vindicate them somehow.  Internal Affairs are always the bad guys...etc.

 

Edited March 26 by Irlandesa

[kaygeeret]

Thank you so much Irlandesa

So simple and logical when one has the code!!!

😉

 

[LuvMyShows]

Here's the really offbeat thing that I liked about the episode. When they showed Angie swimming, it was actually realistic. Usually it's either a stunt double who's a great swimmer but clearly isn't the actor/actress. Or it really is the actor/actress, and they try to make it look like they're a really good swimmer (by trying to have them go fast, or do something that looks complicated), but they're not really that good. In this case, Angie was just doing leisurely backstroke, in a realistic way, as just a normal person swimming in a pool would. Bravo!