S01.E05: Rent

[nara]

As much as Jaime is at the same time smoldering and so just darn cute, he looses a teeny bit from me tonight for initially being a dick like everyone else. He excluded her at the start pretty much the same as the other guys. For months. It just doesn't ring true as the guy who would take a beating for a girl he didn't know, or sleep across the threshold of a woman, but not her room.

 

Intentional dick, or accidental dick, it's a dick still the same. *insert force grumpy face here because I just called Jaime a dick, and I don't like it.*

I didn't see Jamie as being a jerk.  He repeatedly makes efforts to come and talk to Claire and in this and previous episodes.  However, he cannot spend 100% of his time with her.  He needs to continue to bond with the men or he'll lose the relationship/influence he has built with them.  Also, if he is seen as always hanging around with Claire, people will start to notice and talk, and in that period the talk could hurt Claire's reputation.

[Sakura12]

Jamie's not 100% a dick. 
(Sorry, Guardians of the Galaxy humor)

 

However I don't think Jamie was being a dick, he was sitting with his clansmen as he always probably did. He noticed that Claire was glaring at them and went over to her, she continued to be angry about something she doesn't know anything about. She judged them before getting to know what was actually happening. Just like she thought the drunken brawl was just men being stupid, instead of them defending her honor. 

 

Claire's outspokenness is a character flaw and it keeps her from being a Mary Sue. So I don't mind it. 

[justspiffy]

I've been once and would go back again. There were fresh flowers at many of the clan grave markers, which shows how significant the event remains. There is palpable energy there that's a little hard to define. It felt sad but at the same time powerful and inclusive, like it's still occurring or about to occur (well, time is an illusion after all). I don't know if that qualifies as ghosts, but it was very noticeable.

Frank pointing out that it took less than an hour for so much destruction to occur was a great inclusion. Claire's desire to warn Ned and Dougal is understandable -- of course she'd try -- but there's no way she'd dissuade them.

(Total OT side note - I'm very eager to learn the outcome of the Scottish vote on independence that's coming up on Sept. 18. It has become quite a tight race.)

Yes, I am interested in that vote as well.

One thing that really bothered me in this episode was that Claire (and Frank, I believe) pronounced the rebellious group "Jacob-ite". At Culloden, in the film they show you at the site, they clearly pronounce "Yakobite". Is this strictly an English Vs. Gealic thing? And I almost cried at the "Fraser" stone.

Edited September 8, 2014 by justspiffy

[Abhainn]

Yes, I am interested in that vote as well.

One thing that really bothered me in this episode was that Claire (and Frank, I believe) pronounced the rebellious group "Jacob-ite".  At Culloden, in the film they show you at the site, they are clearly pronounce "Yakobite".  Is this strictly an English Vs. Gealic thing?  And I almost cried at the "Fraser" stone.

 

The letter "J" (one of 8) doesn't exist in the Gaelic language, hence that letter sound. doesn't. The word for Jacobite is actually "Seumasach", and in this instance, the "J" letter in Jacobite is given a "Y" sound, called slenderization. So, yes, Gaels would pronounce the Anglicized word "Jacobite" as "Yacobite". Good catch!

 

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Abhainn

[justspiffy]

Yes, I am interested in that vote as well.

One thing that really bothered me in this episode was that Claire (and Frank, I believe) pronounced the rebellious group "Jacob-ite".  At Culloden, in the film they show you at the site, they are clearly pronounce "Yakobite".  Is this strictly an English Vs. Gealic thing?  And I almost cried at the "Fraser" stone.

 

The letter "J" (one of 8) doesn't exist in the Gaelic language, hence that letter sound. doesn't. The word for Jacobite is actually "Seumasach", and in this instance, the "J" letter in Jacobite is given a "Y" sound, called slenderization. So, yes, Gaels would pronounce the Anglicized word "Jacobite" as "Yacobite". Good catch!

Thanks for the explanation!

[Steph01924]

 

 

• I like how Jamie has never been afraid to correct Claire when she's behaving badly.  He escorted her out of the concert when she was drunk, was very direct with her regarding the fact that she's hiding info and clearly still thinking about bolting, and then he called her on her foolhardy argument with Angus.   Do we know what the age difference is between Claire and Jamie? If it's not spoilery, can someone share their ages?

 

I believe Claire is supposed to be about 27ish (an 'old maid' at the time, apparently) and Jamie is supposed to be 23-24. 

 

 

I thought the repetitive late night fundraisers were starting to get a bit tiresome, but I was still captivated by the show, and the hour passed so quickly. I'm looking forward to what's coming next, and at the same time, I am sad there's only a few episodes left this season! Claire's costumes really were gorgeous, despite being unbelievable. I've chosen to think that she inherited some poor, deceased MacKenzie lady's closet, a lady who just happened to be the same size as she is. That's why she has so many fancy coats and dresses.

[bluebonnet]

Can anyone screencap Claire's costumes?  I've rewatched several times but I do not have an eye for clothes at all.  It seemed to me that the basics of her dress was essentially the same, with subtle changes in accessories like the fichu or the addition of a shawl here and there.  The skirt at least seemed the same all through.  But screenshots may help to see how each day's outfit differed.  

[WatchrTina]

Terry has said that Claire actually has a relatively limited wardrobe but they mix and match the items to create a different look for each day. That being said, the knitted shawl she wears on the last day (when the fight breaks out and the redcoats show up) was unfamiliar to me so I think it was its first appearance.  And I think I would have noticed it before because it is awesome.

[Nidratime]

However I don't think Jamie was being a dick, he was sitting with his clansmen as he always probably did. He noticed that Claire was glaring at them and went over to her, she continued to be angry about something she doesn't know anything about. She judged them before getting to know what was actually happening. Just like she thought the drunken brawl was just men being stupid, instead of them defending her honor.

 

 

The group of them were putting Claire in a damned if she does; damned if she doesn't situation. They were purposely speaking a language she couldn't understand in order to exclude her and make sure she *didn't* know exactly what they were up to but they got angry with her for not "understanding" and keeping quiet or for not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Perhaps they were expecting her to act like other women in their clan? I hate to say that because I get the impression there are a number of women in the clan who would challenge them for one thing or another on a similar trip ... although maybe not challenge them for the same things. For instance, Mrs. Fitz would be pissed at the constant tearing of Jamie's shirt, I'm sure! ;-)

[thingamajig]

Terry has said that Claire actually has a relatively limited wardrobe but they mix and match the items to create a different look for each day. That being said, the knitted shawl she wears on the last day (when the fight breaks out and the redcoats show up) was unfamiliar to me so I think it was its first appearance.  And I think I would have noticed it before because it is awesome.

I noticed that one too (I'm a knitter) and it was definitely new. She had one bulky cowl that was done on large needles that she wore a few times but this was even bigger.  Oh and as far as what really made my husband take notice of the wardrobe, it was her (gorgeous) fur-lined coat that he wanted to know where it had come from since it fits her perfectly and obviously she didn't bring it from the future with her.

[Haleth]

The scene with the women waulking felt like a breath of fresh air for Claire.

 

Well, except for the stench.  

I love that the show took us out of the castle and gave us a glimpse of life in the countryside.  (And what a breathtaking countryside it is!)  The waulking scene felt authentic.  Love too that the guys felt so protective of Claire and that Angus was the first to react to the insults.  

[jah1986]

Another great episode. Can't add too much to what's already been said.  These actors are very good at portraying a lot without a lot of words. 

 

As usual Murtagh (?) is one to let Claire know she's causing trouble, when he tells her why the men started fighting. It seems they weren't just fighting for her honor but also Collum's since she is his guest and insulting her is a way of insulting him.

 

Also, love the little shifts in Jaime's expression when talking to Claire. When he explained why he was sleeping outside her door and she said I don't think anyone wants to spend time with a English woman right now, his face shifted a bit like it's not going to be a pleasant little time they'll be spending, almost like he wasn't sure she knew how much danger should could be in.

 

Maybe I spend too much time watching Jaime's face.

 

Next week looks tense.

[glitterpants]

The group of them were putting Claire in a damned if she does; damned if she doesn't situation. They were purposely speaking a language she couldn't understand in order to exclude her and make sure she *didn't* know exactly what they were up to but they got angry with her for not "understanding" and keeping quiet or for not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

It seems to me that they'd speak Gaelic between themselves if she weren't here and they saw no reason not to continue speaking Gaelic when they please just because Claire is here. Tough for her, but I don't think it's particularly rude of them. At that point she's still a strange sassenach woman who's obviously hiding something and may or may not be a spy, so it'd be weird if they went out of their way to make sure she understands everything. 

[Kat From Jersey]

I believe Claire is supposed to be about 27ish (an 'old maid' at the time, apparently) and Jamie is supposed to be 23-24. 

 

 

I thought the repetitive late night fundraisers were starting to get a bit tiresome, but I was still captivated by the show, and the hour passed so quickly. I'm looking forward to what's coming next, and at the same time, I am sad there's only a few episodes left this season! Claire's costumes really were gorgeous, despite being unbelievable. I've chosen to think that she inherited some poor, deceased MacKenzie lady's closet, a lady who just happened to be the same size as she is. That's why she has so many fancy coats and dresses.

 

 

I love the "deceased MacKenzie lady" theory!  After all, Colum is the laird of a vast estate, and quite wealthy by Highlands standards.  it stands to reason that even the extra clothes lying around the castle are of very good quality.  But gosh, I love Claire's clothes!  Compare them to the crofter's wives'; there's quite a difference.

 

Perhaps they were expecting her to act like other women in their clan? I hate to say that because I get the impression there are a number of women in the clan who would challenge them for one thing or another on a similar trip ... although maybe not challenge them for the same things. For instance, Mrs. Fitz would be pissed at the constant tearing of Jamie's shirt, I'm sure! ;-)

 

Claire definitely doesn't act like *any* lady of her time!  Her modern, more liberated personality/point of view gets her in trouble time and time again.

 

The pub fight scene was great (cue jaunty bagpipe music)!

Edited September 8, 2014 by Kat From Jersey

[Pestilentia]

It seems to me that they'd speak Gaelic between themselves if she weren't here and they saw no reason not to continue speaking Gaelic when they please just because Claire is here. Tough for her, but I don't think it's particularly rude of them. At that point she's still a strange sassenach woman who's obviously hiding something and may or may not be a spy, so it'd be weird if they went out of their way to make sure she understands everything. 

I agree with this position- was just coming to say something similar.

[Nidratime]

It seems to me that they'd speak Gaelic between themselves if she weren't here and they saw no reason not to continue speaking Gaelic when they please just because Claire is here. Tough for her, but I don't think it's particularly rude of them. At that point she's still a strange sassenach woman who's obviously hiding something and may or may not be a spy, so it'd be weird if they went out of their way to make sure she understands everything.

 

 

*I'm* not saying it was rude of them ... although Claire seems to think so since, during one of her internal monologues, she says that she feels they are speaking Gaelic to exclude her.

 

And, I also agree that they probably would be speaking Gaelic often, if not all the time, especially when on the road where they might be overheard by people such as British soldiers.

 

However, I was pointing out that they seemed "put out" that *she* misunderstands their motivations, i.e., thinking they are lining their pockets, or that she can't tell when they are defending her (or Colum's) honor, when she clearly can't speak Gaelic and can't tell why they are doing something. Murtaugh -- acting like she should've known better -- eventually tells her why they really got into that fight and then she seemed less upset and more appreciative -- just like she did when Jamie tells her why he was sleeping outside her door.

[jzygayle]

 

I believe Claire is supposed to be about 27ish (an 'old maid' at the time, apparently) and Jamie is supposed to be 23-24.

 

Claire's not an "old maid"; she's a known widow.

[bluebonnet]

I think they were more put out because she always came to the worst conclusions or did things they viewed as deliberate snubs.  They give her a whole rabbit and she looks at them in disgust while they are telling bawdy jokes so they change to Gaelic and she throws the rabbit down and walks away.  Or they get accused as baby killers because a family chose to give a goat as part of their tax even though they clearly have the option of giving something else or claiming hardship.  Or get called thieves for conducting what they saw as business.  

 

They don't understand Claire and she doesn't understand them.  For them, the line is thicker between prisoner and guest, whereas Claire and the audience calls it for what it is, she's a prisoner dressed up as a guest.  I think it's why Jamie and Murtagh were at times so short with Claire, because they are also in the same prisoner/guest relationship with the MacKenzies.  

[nara]

I think they were more put out because she always came to the worst conclusions or did things they viewed as deliberate snubs.  They give her a whole rabbit and she looks at them in disgust while they are telling bawdy jokes so they change to Gaelic and she throws the rabbit down and walks away.  

 

They don't understand Claire and she doesn't understand them.  For them, the line is thicker between prisoner and guest, whereas Claire and the audience calls it for what it is, she's a prisoner dressed up as a guest.  I think it's why Jamie and Murtagh were at times so short with Claire, because they are also in the same prisoner/guest relationship with the MacKenzies.  

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the rabbit thing, but I thought there was no meat on it and it was a joke that they gave her the leftover bones.  I've never seen a rabbit in that state or had meat fresh from a hunt, so I could be very mistaken.  :)

 

Regarding Jamie, my assumption was that there was an unspoken line in his head:  "I promised that you would be safe as long as I was around, but you're not making it easy for me to protect you, lass!"  And Murtagh is the one who originally rescued Claire from Blackjack (for which she's never really thanked him, I believe), so I imagine he's a little frustrated and annoyed with her behavior.  However, more than anyone else, he sees the connection between Jamie and Claire, so he makes sure to educate her, rather than just giving up on her.

[molshoop]

 

it just doesn't ring true as the guy who would sleep across the threshold of a woman, but not her room

 

I left out part of what you wrote and I know what you meant to say, but this cracked me up.

[bluebonnet]

Perhaps I misunderstood the rabbit thing, but I thought there was no meat on it and it was a joke that they gave her the leftover bones.  I've never seen a rabbit in that state or had meat fresh from a hunt, so I could be very mistaken.  :)

 

Regarding Jamie, my assumption was that there was an unspoken line in his head:  "I promised that you would be safe as long as I was around, but you're not making it easy for me to protect you, lass!"  And Murtagh is the one who originally rescued Claire from Blackjack (for which she's never really thanked him, I believe), so I imagine he's a little frustrated and annoyed with her behavior.  However, more than anyone else, he sees the connection between Jamie and Claire, so he makes sure to educate her, rather than just giving up on her.

Definitely a whole rabbit.  It came fresh off the fire with all it's meat still on it.  It didn't even seem like it was one of the rabbits the men were picking from as part of their meal.

 

I think Murtagh does see the connection between Claire and Jamie and I think Jamie is thinking about the promise he made Claire.  But I also think they are feeling a bit of frustration over it all, especially because they also are in a similar prisoner/guest relationship.  It seems like they have to walk a fine line with interacting with her because it could put suspicion on them.  

[tallyrand]

Liked this episode the first time I watched it. LOVED it the second time. I think it flows better upon rewatch.  Just little things I loved:

 

I really liked how Claire was playing with her wedding ring this episode. The one time by the river and then when she is lying in bed right before she hears Jamie thumping about. 

 

The first shot and the introduction of Ned with the John Donne poem was utterly beautiful. That might be my favorite scene to date. 

 

I also like how they showed Jamie telling Claire what's up.  Although I personally think Dougal walked into much of the mess himself. He knows Claire is outspoken, intelligent and English. I don't see why he would talk so blatantly about politics and accept money from people right in front her. He's to blame for underestimating Claire and her intelligence. 

 

Murtagh is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. I like how, in his own way, he watches out for Claire and also calls her out/tells her what's up, even if it's mainly on Jamie's behalf. 

 

I understand that Gaelic is their first language, but in the first scene where Claire VOs that they are using it to exclude her, you see Dougal tell a story in English and after Angus gives her the rabbit the men clearly begin making fun of Claire in Gaelic as you can tell by how Jamie's expression sobers up.  If they were always talking and joking in Gaelic that would be one thing, but they really only used Gaelic when they were purposefully leaving her out and probably saying nasty things. I don't blame her for being upset. Not only is she the only woman surrounded by a bunch of men from a totally different century and with totally different views on women, she is treated like a pariah to a certain extent, which is understandable on the Highlanders behalf, but it is also understandable for Claire to feel isolated. And Claire is not the type of character to just be passive when feeling isolated and insulted, she lashes out. 

 

Catriona Balfe does such an amazing job showing all the sides of Claire and she expresses so much without saying a word. I just love her. 

[Pestilentia]

It was a whole roasted rabbit to be sure but what cracked me up was that they hadn't even bothered to skin its head.

Not the most appetizing way to present it!

[islagirl]

Maybe I spend too much time watching Jaime's face

 

 I know these words, but put together they make no sense.

[taanja]

 

Cait was looking amazing in this episode. Her hair was curled a different way every day but it always looked fantastic. My hair is curly too, not quite that much, but I doubt mine would ever look that good if I was living in the 1700s.

 

I had a witty reply to this but my computer decided to eat it ...so ....but I do agree. Clair's hair was so captivating I missed lines of dialog and some scenes because I couldn't stop looking at those marvelous curls!

 

I loved everything about this episode. The scenery alone is worth the re-watch! Simply breathtaking!

 

[Constantinople]

I understand that Gaelic is their first language, but in the first scene where Claire VOs that they are using it to exclude her, you see Dougal tell a story in English and after Angus gives her the rabbit the men clearly begin making fun of Claire in Gaelic as you can tell by how Jamie's expression sobers up.  If they were always talking and joking in Gaelic that would be one thing, but they really only used Gaelic when they were purposefully leaving her out and probably saying nasty things. I don't blame her for being upset. Not only is she the only woman surrounded by a bunch of men from a totally different century and with totally different views on women, she is treated like a pariah to a certain extent, which is understandable on the Highlanders behalf, but it is also understandable for Claire to feel isolated. And Claire is not the type of character to just be passive when feeling isolated and insulted, she lashes out.

Has Claire tried to learn a single word of Gaelic, other than sassenach?

[tallyrand]

She knew "Long Live the Stuarts!!"

[absnow54]

Has Claire tried to learn a single word of Gaelic, other than sassenach?

Only if it works well with a sassy comeback. I still love her "I guess you don't ken everything!"

Edited September 8, 2014 by absnow54

[Constantinople]

Did Claire ever stop to think that the Scots won the Battle of Culloden, but she mucked it up by travelling back in time as a nattering nabob of negativity that harshed everyone's mellow?

[taanja]

 

Has Claire tried to learn a single word of Gaelic, other than sassenach?

 

There were a couple of times ---when they were obviously showing that time was passing ---that Claire was listening to some of the men and I thought ---Oh she is learning gaelic just by listening. But I guess not.

 

[nara]

Has Claire tried to learn a single word of Gaelic, other than sassenach?

At the beginning of the episode, she had been there for approx. 3-4 weeks so I'm not sure how much she can have picked up.  It seems like her days were mostly confined to the surgery.

 

Did Claire ever stop to think that the Scots won the Battle of Culloden, but she mucked it up by travelling back in time as a nattering nabob of negativity that harshed everyone's mellow?

Mind=blown!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I've been once and would go back again. There were fresh flowers at many of the clan grave markers, which shows how significant the event remains. There is palpable energy there that's a little hard to define. It felt sad but at the same time powerful and inclusive, like it's still occurring or about to occur (well, time is an illusion after all). I don't know if that qualifies as ghosts, but it was very noticeable.

 

And I will forever be miffed that when I went to visit Culloden, the sun was shining brightly and I didn't feel any of the lost souls or energy. 't should have been raining, ye ken? I even pressed my hands down on the grave, willing it send me something, anything, but no luck.

[Rekilt]

At the beginning of the episode, she had been there for approx. 3-4 weeks so I'm not sure how much she can have picked up. It seems like her days were mostly confined to the surgery.

Mind=blown!

First time poster, long time lurker, so thought I would just jump right into it. Hope that's ok.

ITA, it hasn't been that long. Plus Claire is a bit distracted with trying to figure out how to return to her time. I doubt she's thinking she's going to be hanging around the 18th century for very long so why should she focus on learning a new language that she won't need back home. Learning a new language is hard when you are in your mid 20's and beyond, especially since everyone around for the most part speaks English. If they only spoke Gaelic then she would definitely be forced to try harder. But as of now, Gaelic is mostly used for formal ceremonies, political intrigue or when someone doesn't want to include her in their conversations. If and when her position on her circumstances changes (I'm assuming her agent has informed her by now that a second season has been picked up so she's stuck for at least 10 more episodes) then I'm pretty sure she'll become more proficient at Gaelic.

Taanja lol. Your comment reminded me of the scene in 13th Warrior where they ask Antonio Banderios how he learned their language and he tells them, "because I LISTENED!". Claire should take a lesson from Antonio, although in her defense she does have bigger issues on her mind.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Rekilt

[taanja]

 

Taanja lol. Your comment reminded me of the scene in 13th Warrior where they ask Antonio Banderios how he learned their language and he tells them, "because I LISTENED!". Claire should take a lesson from Antonio, although in her defense she does have bigger issues on her mind.

 

I read a book once ---years ago-- about a woman (I think) who was kidnapped by some native American tribe or another and at first of course she doesn't understand the language. But as time goes by and she obviously hears it spoken on a daily basis one day she realizes she understands what is being said. So I guess I thought that was the premise going on last night. LOL

 

I am kind of new to the boards. And I read Outlander so long ago I have no real memory of what happens. So I am like a virgin when it comes to this story.

 

[Abhainn]

At this time, and in particular this area of The Islands and The Highlands, just before Culloden and the 1872 Eduction Act, you would be hard-pressed to find a lot of people in these areas speaking Lowland Scots--it would have been strictly Gàidhlig.  Lowland Scots [their form of English]  would have been the exception at this time, not the rule.  But of course you couldn't make a show with nothing but Gàidhlig dialogue.  It wasn't saved just for ceromonies, or politics, or because you didn't want the kids to know what you're talking about -- it was the language of the majority there at the time.  This book and show is historical fiction afterall.  Based on actual historical events, to be sure, but fiction nonetheless.

 

 

I read a book once ---years ago-- about a woman (I think) who was kidnapped by some native American tribe or another and at first of course she doesn't understand the language. But as time goes by and she obviously hears it spoken on a daily basis one day she realizes she understands what is being said. So I guess I thought that was the premise going on last night. LOL

 

And it's how the language is being kept alive and taught today -- it's called "total immersion".  :)  The best way to learn it -- hard...but effective  - lol! 

[Oconnellaboo]

And I will forever be miffed that when I went to visit Culloden, the sun was shining brightly and I didn't feel any of the lost souls or energy. 't should have been raining, ye ken? I even pressed my hands down on the grave, willing it send me something, anything, but no luck.

When I went to Culloden some 30-odd years ago, it was raining. I have never felt so cold in my life, and to this day I wonder if the weather was the only factor. Such a sad, sad place.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Oconnellaboo

[Petunia846]

I read a book once ---years ago-- about a woman (I think) who was kidnapped by some native American tribe or another and at first of course she doesn't understand the language. But as time goes by and she obviously hears it spoken on a daily basis one day she realizes she understands what is being said. So I guess I thought that was the premise going on last night. LOL

Yeah, I've spent extensive time in foreign countries before, where I didn't know the language at first and you should definitely pick up a few things just by immersion. I mean, even just from watching the show I feel like I can say "thank you" and "let's go" in Gàidhlig (yes, I did copy and paste from Abhainn's post...thanks!). I would expect Claire to pick up basic greetings, yes and no, words for food and maybe clothes, and maybe some numbers. It's easy to pick out words that are often spoken in isolation, like thank you, but it's harder to listen to long flows of conversation like what the guys were saying around the campfire and pick out words. That takes longer, after a lot more listening, your ear gets more attune to the sounds and the rhythm of the language. And of course instruction speeds all of that up. I think Claire will learn some of the language eventually, but I agree with who ever said, that until now she's probably not been motivated to think about the language because she's "known" so to speak, that she was going to leave, she hasn't given up on her hope for escape yet, so she isn't thinking about this being a long term situation where she really needs to learn the language.

[justmehere]

And I will forever be miffed that when I went to visit Culloden, the sun was shining brightly and I didn't feel any of the lost souls or energy. 't should have been raining, ye ken? I even pressed my hands down on the grave, willing it send me something, anything, but no luck.

 

 

Come to think of it, it was a very cloudy, windy day with rain spitting off and on when I went.

 

[P.S.

When I went to Culloden some 30-odd years ago, it was raining. I have never felt so cold in my life, and to this day I wonder if the weather was the only factor. Such a sad, sad place.

 

 

For me, I'd say the weather lent a certain amount of atmosphere, but there was definitely more to it.]

 

For those interested, this week's podcast touches on a lot of the issues raised in this thread re: the number of Claire's outfits, sleeping in her clothes, and the Redcoat officer in the village. However, there is a big spoiler at the end as to the ending cliffhanger and what Claire does. If you don't want to know, then stop listening at the point where Ron says they're coming up on the end of the episode. [posting in that thread as well]

Edited September 8, 2014 by justmehere

[dustoffmom]

Add me to those who have been to Culloden.  I was in Scotland in January several years ago and the day I visited I was quite honestly nearly the only soul around.  It was cold, windy, spitting snow....just basically miserable in truth.  I stood out there for a very long time and was honestly surprised by the powerful emotions it brought about.  I recall thinking several times.....you are an American...why is this place affecting you so?  But it surely did.  I had by that time read the first two, or maybe three books so I appreciated the significance in that way.  But when I came upon the marker for the Fraser and Mackenzie clans....the tears!  It's a very moving place to visit and in winter, or on any foul weather day....believe me, it will get to you.

And....I spent an entire month in Scotland, traveled the length and breadth of the country and looked high and low for Jaime Fraser.  LOL  I met many a verra handsome man indeed....but never found my Jaime.  But I surely enjoyed the search there.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

AHA!!! I was there in August unseasonably hot! Even in Ireland it didn't rAin as much and I came back with a tan!

[bluebonnet]

I think also, wrt Claire and the language, she's never had reason to learn (this apart from her major desire to leave asap) because they also speak a dialect of her own tongue.  People are generally speaking to her in English rather than Gaelic.  She's not experiencing the difficulty of making herself literally understood since there is a common language between them.  The only times she has had opportunity to listen to Gaelic was at Hall of the Gathering, and someone was standing at her ear translating it for her.  She's in a foreign place, to be sure, but it's not like she was dropped in 18th century China where the number of people who spoke her language would be nearly zero.  Even now, on the road, the Gaelic the men are speaking around the fire isn't all that suitable for an 18th century woman to be learning.  She'd be worse off if she went around repeating some of the bawdy words in the jokes the boys are telling.  

 

That being said, it wouldn't be all that odd if Claire is just not a capable linguist.  Some people just aren't.  

[nara]

That being said, it wouldn't be all that odd if Claire is just not a capable linguist.  Some people just aren't.  

It's nice to see her have actual skill gaps.  If I had been transported to that period, I'd have no skills to survive and would have been killed off by the Redcoats halfway through episode 1!

[Bort]

That being said, it wouldn't be all that odd if Claire is just not a capable linguist.  Some people just aren't.

Yes, this. I grew up in South Texas, where Spanish is a very prevalent language and a lot of my siblings were able to pick it up the way I should have been able but... I can read it a little bit but when it's coming at me at 800 miles an hour? Oh hell no. And I certainly can't speak it. There's just a disconnect in there somewhere, I can't pick up other languages. So I totally understand if Claire is having a hard time with the Gaelic. I know I would.

[Pogojoco]

This one made me quite melancholy- with all the talk of Scottish independence in the news right now and hearing about the banning of tartans and of the clans after Culloden,  and the slaughter.

 

Drunk Claire is pretty hilarious-I'm not sure how she thought just taking the goat was going to work.

 

I really like how they make these Scots seriously dangerous, even Jamie. He has sympathy for Claire (as well as being clearly gone over her) but he's definitely a man of his time. He's not afraid of telling her when she's crossed the line or telling her off. The conversations between her and Ned were interesting: Claire in full Cassandra mode. Dougal confronting her soon after her warning to Ned demonstrates that, like Jamie, he might feel sympathy for her but he's a man of that time. He's fully Dougal's man. The fight was funny- I guess the McKenzie are the only ones allowed to call Claire a Sassenach whore. 

 

Both Jamie and Claire looked GORGEOUS in this ep. Balfe was in full supermodel, and Heugen, all shirtless and auburn haired and tartan-y. I'm gushing, but with the whole look of this show is really lush. Dougal, in his tam and his knits, also looked gorgeous. 

 

I also think we missed out on Jamie perpetually sewing his shirt back together in the background. 

 

And because they had Jamie sleep outside Claire's room but skipped my favourite Jamie line from the book, I present it here: 

 

“Won’t they wonder, though, what you’re doing up here in the dark?” I could see nothing of his face, but the tone of his voice told me he was smiling.
“Not at all, Sassenach. They’ll just think I’m waiting my turn.”

 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Pogojoco

[nara]

This one made me quite melancholy- with all the talk of Scottish independence in the news right now and hearing about the banning of tartans and of the clans after Culloden,  and the slaughter.

 

Drunk Claire is pretty hilarious-I'm not sure how she thought just taking the goat was going to work.

 

I really like how they make these Scots seriously dangerous, even Jamie. He has sympathy for Claire (as well as being clearly gone over her) but he's definitely a man of his time. He's not afraid of telling her when she's crossed the line or telling her off. The conversations between her and Ned were interesting: Claire in full Cassandra mode. Dougal confronting her soon after her warning to Ned demonstrates that, like Jamie, he might feel sympathy for her but he's a man of that time. He's fully Dougal's man. The fight was funny- I guess the McKenzie are the only ones allowed to call Claire a Sassenach whore. 

 

Both Jamie and Claire looked GORGEOUS in this ep. Balfe was in full supermodel, and Heugen, all shirtless and auburn haired and tartan-y. I'm gushing, but with the whole look of this show is really lush. Dougal, in his tam and his knits, also looked gorgeous. 

 

And because they had Jamie sleep outside Claire's room, but skipped my favourite Jamie line from the book, I present it here: 

“Won’t they wonder, though, what you’re doing up here in the dark?” I could see nothing of his face, but the tone of his voice told me he was smiling.

“Not at all, Sassenach. They’ll just think I’m waiting my turn.”

I believe you just tipped the scales.  I wasn't sure if I should read the books now or wait, but that line is AWESOME, so I think I'm going to have to read it during the hiatus so I don't miss out on the details they cannot include.

Edited September 9, 2014 by nara

[tennisgurl]

Must...resist...urg...to read...book...

 

I loved this episode so much, and I loved it more watching it a second time. I could watch the scandalized expression on Jaime's face as Claire suggestions he sleep in her room a hundred times. But your reputation would be ruined! I loved the way Claire bonded with the Highlanders at the end, then got all sad as Claire realized that a lot of them were going to probably be slaughtered in just a few years. I cant imagine how hard that would be for her, knowing how badly this is all going to end, but being unable to do anything about it. And it must be a really hard place for Claire to be in, as an Englishwoman. I mean, who's side is she going to take here?   

 

The music and the cinematography are just wonderful, like, even if the writing and the acting all sucked (none of it does, thank God) I would watch for all the gorgeous scenery and shots and the music. If they put out a soundtrack, I will buy it in a heartbeat!

 

I love this show so much, I am already getting righteously angry about it being inevitably ignored at the Emmys next year.

[nara]

LOL, WatchrTina I've had my eye out for that guy from the day you first mentioned him.

 

This guy?

Is this the guy in that little short movie they posted to encourage watching on mobile devices?  http://outlander.timewarnercable.com/  It's hard to tell because you can't really see the guy's face.  It would be nice if they gave him some clips to "star" in himself.

[WatchrTina]

Nara I just watched part 3 on my iPad and you are right -- it could be him in a different wig and yes, they do seem to be at great pains to only let you catch glimpses of his face.  That would all support my theory that he's Jamie's stunt double -- he is, after all, beating the stuffing out of a redcoat in that clip.  The best look at him in "Rent" (if it is the same guy) comes right after Claire cracks the joke. He's standing behind her during the moment as everyone stares at Claire and waits for Rupert's reaction.  Whoever that guy is, he's a young hottie who, if you put a red wig on him, could probably pass for Sam in a long shot.

 

Then again, I could just be fixating on three different young, good-looking stunt men .  As you do.

Edited September 9, 2014 by WatchrTina

[ganesh]

“Not at all, Sassenach. They’ll just think I’m waiting my turn.”

 

They missed a gem here. I can't believe this wasn't in the episode. 

[lucindabelle]

I also agree that speaking the men speaking their own language felt like a snub to Claire, but probably wasn't. It's just probably easier for them, and since she's not sitting with them anyway, why not speak Gaelic?

 

I for one am SICK of Claire's wanting to escape. I read the first book well over 10 years ago and remember little about it except the premise, but since we know the show is continuing for several episodes we KNOW that isn't going to work. Just bored, bored, bored. I also think cutting where they did at the ending was cheap. Come on, we KNOW she's not going to betray the people she's with, or the show would end. Cheap.

 

I believe urine was the basis for ammonia used in dry cleaning and urine was always used in dye-ing:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cleaning

http://invention.smithsonian.org/centerpieces/whole_cloth/u3tc/u3materials/natdye.html

 

It's not some Scottish invention. Obviously it's new to Claire, but she wasn't in that industry in the 20th century either.

 

I love waulking (not working) songs. They are still performed by many singers. Scots Gaelic is still spoken in the Hebrides and other places.

 

 Here is Capercaillie doing their fusion-y waulking song:

 

 

(I posted a song by Bothy Band before that is more mouth music...faster... can't confirm it was a waulking song)

 

This link has a lot of info... apparently the process continued well into the 20th century (one of the pictures is from 1970).

http://www.houseofscotland.org/waulking.html

 

Claire I think said she picked up the word "Stuart" from Dougal's talk, not much of Scots.

It is hard to learn a language when people are translating; it's why many immigrants never learn English. They speak their own language and read it at home with family.

 

I've often thought that although the language receptors are most open when we're little, if you set us dow in a foreign country, spoke only the foreign language and cooed, oohed and aahed at us any time we said ANYTHING we'd all be fluent within two years.

Edited September 9, 2014 by lucindabelle