S01.E05: Rent

[Athena]

 

Claire is brought along on the MacKenzie rent-collecting trip; Dougal uses Jamie's scars to drum up sympathy for the Jacobite cause; Claire remembers that a famous moment in Scottish history will soon occur.

 

As usual, no book talk please. Thanks!

[WatchrTina]

Oh my god that was so good.  Gotta watch again now with the closed captions on.  

[Petunia846]

Ned! Aww. They did a good job with him, he was pretty much exactly like I imagined him.

 

I liked the story arc over the course of the episode with the developing relationship between Claire and the McKenzie men...from leaving her out, laughing at her and yelling at her, to defending her honor with their fists, and then finally Claire joking around with them.

 

Claire was pretty brazen with her warnings to Ned about "history" or more accurately the future. I was a little worried that he'd catch on more than he did. The flashforwardbacks to Claire and Frank at Culloden were very well placed. I had some emotional whiplash, just like Claire probably did in the moment.

 

Cait was looking amazing in this episode. Her hair was curled a different way every day but it always looked fantastic. My hair is curly too, not quite that much, but I doubt mine would ever look that good if I was living in the 1700s.

 

My cable box sits on top of the TV and of course it always shows the time, but I cover it up for Outlander because the light distracts me from the show. Usually the hour of Outlander goes pretty fast and it's over before I know it. This week it seemed to go on forever, but in a really, really good way. They squeezed in a ton of story this week but none of it felt rushed. This show is seriously getting amazing. Even if I weren't a book fan, I think I'd still be majorly hooked.

 

Anyway, in closing, this was the meanest ending they've ever given us! How can you leave it like that, Show?! Ack! My question though is what was that guy who was a redcoat doing apparently living and working in a random little McKenzie village? Was he a Scot who was with the English army? Or an Englishman who was with the Scots? That confused me a little.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Petunia846

[absnow54]

I thought this episode was a bit slow, especially in the middle half where they repeated the war collections over and over again. Drunk Claire trying to rescue a goat, sweet scandalized Jamie at Claire's invitation into her bedroom, and Claire's boys defending her at the tavern made it all worth it though. Rupert's "I've never heard a woman make a joke before" was the line of the night.

[nara]

Loved this episode!  My first reactions:

 

• Claire should be a little more careful about alcohol.  She's seems to get loose-lipped when she's drinking and that will get her into trouble.

 

• Claire can learn something from Geillis and Jamie about tact.  I was remembering the skillful way that Geillis manipulated her husband regarding the tanner's boy's punishment.  Also, Jamie, despite being young, has shown the ability to defuse tense situations at the Gathering and when Angus was coming after Claire.  Claire tends to be very direct and open with her comments and concerns.  I really wonder if she would have been more successful regarding returning the goat to the family with the baby if she had approached Dougal privately and explained their plight.  (He subsequently showed some compassion for the family that had lost everything to redcoats.)  Instead, she openly challenged him and left him and Angus no option but to stand their ground.  I also think she can spend more time observing and learning vs. voicing her opinion. I think that this is the flip side of the stubbornness that Frank found so attractive.

 

• I really liked that fact that Jamie is protective of Claire, but is also careful not to appear too much Team Claire in front of the MacKenzies.  I thought that was very realistic vs. his openly defying Dougal to support her.  Loved, loved, loved him sleeping outside her door!  :)  I especially thought it was a good tie to the previous episodes when a couple attacks were made on her.  A very swoon-worthy moment!

 

• Is it just me, or did Jamie seem really young in this episode vs. the others.  1) He looked younger and 2) his embarrassment at the idea of sleeping in her room was adorable.  Most of the other men would assume from all the flirting that Claire has done over the past few episodes and the invitation to sleep in her room that she was inviting him to do something more!  He seemed genuinely confused at the prospect and concerned about her reputation, even though he ended with a trademark Jamie smoldering look, almost like he regretted not taking her up on the offer. 

 

• I really liked that the men defended Claire, and especially that Jamie was not the one to start it but that Angus was. Was I the only one who thought that she should have me more open with her thanks?  I was expecting her to give Angus a kiss on the cheek and was a little disappointed that she didn't. I guess that her teasing of Rupert accomplished the same thing... I do like the fact Murtagh was the one (once again) who told her of her role in the fight.  He's doing her a favor by not hiding truths from her. 

 

• I do also like the fact that there are now more young men in the Highlands (Willie and the Redcoat).  It seemed strange that Jamie was the only young and handsome man around. 

 

• I really enjoyed the historical ties, but it made me feel sad to know that the end of the clans was so near.  I do think that this episode marks the beginning of empathy that Claire has for them.  I enjoyed her conversation with the lawyer (whose name I didn't catch) and her efforts to save them from a failed rebellion.

[maraleia]

FYI it's the Stuart's not Stewart's. Great article BTW.

[WatchrTina]

I officially love Starz.  I love that they give us a full hour.  These episodes are just so rich.

 

The Good:
The scenery!  Especially the river-side chats.
The waulking song! 
Claire being a good sport about peeing for the cause.
The 3 faces of Angus – he really had an interesting character arc in this one episode.
Rupert laughing at Claire’s joke.
Jamie warning Claire to be more careful and not to judge things she does not understand.  He’s a smart lad.
Jamie sleeping outside her door and being scandalized at the idea of sleeping inside her door.  “That’s not the same thing at all!”  Damn he’s adorable.
Bare-chested Jamie lit by firelight.  Again. <sigh>
Murtaugh telling it like it is.  Again.
The look Claire shot Angus when  she found out the guys in the tavern had called her a whore.
The whole Highlander attitude of “you’re our guest so we can insult you but woe betide the outsider who tries it.”
Effective use of flashforwardbacks (Hi Frank!)
Wicked, wicked cliff-hanger ending.  Oh it hurts so good.

 

The Bad:
Claire publically calling out Dougal for having an ulterior motive for feeding the folks who had been robbed.  That rang false.  I can understand her having those feelings but I can’t understand her saying them out loud in front of everyone, including the people being fed.  Claire’s not very diplomatic but that seemed downright foolhardy.  How did she not learn her lesson after seeing Angus react to being called a thief?

 

What provoked Dougal into challenging Claire at the very end of the show?  His turning up riverside and demanding, “Who are you?” confused me.  I presume Ned told him about the warning Claire had given him but the timing just seemed off.

 

The Ugly:
Crofters being extorted by the Watch, robbed by the British, and crucified.  That was pretty awful.

 

Once again I regret having seen a scene out of context.  When I saw the clip of Claire trying to take the goat earlier this week I thought her behavior was silly.  Now, knowing that she was a wee bit drunk and had just been man-handled by Angus (who showed a particularly nasty and not at all comical side of himself in that scene), her furious attempt to liberate the goat makes more sense.

 

So . . . what WAS that British solider doing all by himself in MacKenzie lands?  He was dressed like a blacksmith so I wonder if he had been on patrol, his horse threw a shoe and he had to walk it to that village to have it seen to (maybe he was even doing the work himself) while the rest of his regiment rode on without him.  That’s one guess anyway.

 

I thought Brits pronounced lieutenant "lef-tennent" but our new red-coat didn't.

 

Aaaaand once again I regret watching the previews for next week.  I seriously need to develop some self-control with regard to this show.

 

I really hope Bear McCreary does a blog posting for this episode because there was some wonderful stuff going on with the music.

Edited September 7, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Nidratime]

Here's a Hollywood Reporter interview with the actor who plays Dougal following (and about) the 5th episode. There are some SPOILERS so please be mindful that by reading it, you may come upon some plot points you didn't want to know.

 

'Outlander': Graham McTavish on Dougal's "Superobjective," Claire and Rewriting History

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/outlander-graham-mctavish-dougal-729642

[ganesh]

The flashforwardbacks to Claire and Frank at Culloden were very well placed. I had some emotional whiplash, just like Claire probably did in the moment.

 

I figured Colloden would factor into the show, but not so soon. Seeing the stone of MacKenzie and now being with them must have been a mindfuck. Though I have no idea what she thought she could accomplish by telling them that the Scots losing is a fact. That's not going to look good to everyone as Claire found out at the end.

 

I also think she can spend more time observing and learning vs. voicing her opinion. I think that this is the flip side of the stubbornness that Frank found so attractive.

 

Yeah, but lady, learn when the hold them and when fold them. Sheesh. Drag the goat around in front of everyone like they're all going to listen to you. I'm kind of glad that Claire ashamedly shut the fuck up when she was told the fight started because of her. I'm actually glad that he mouth is getting her into trouble. Makes her more of a real person.

 

I much prefer Frank and his jaunty exposition to the voice overs. 

 

I'm still glad there's no subtitles though because I like figuring out what's going on.

[magdalene]

This was my favorite episode so far. I especially loved the scene of Claire joining the working women and the working song. And the way it was revealed that the men were raising funds for the Jacobite cause. Several times during this episode I got chills thinking here is Claire among these people knowing that their way of life will be coming to a brutal end in just a few years. That not only many will die but also their land and their language and their culture will be forcibly taken from them.

Edited September 7, 2014 by magdalene

[Petunia846]

So . . . what WAS that British solider doing all by himself in MacKenzie lands?  He was dressed like a blacksmith so I wonder if he had been on patrol, his horse threw a shoe and he had to walk it to that village to have it seen to (maybe he was even doing the work himself) while the rest of his regiment rode on without him.  That’s one guess anyway.

Oh, that's a good guess. I was thinking, is he a spy? But then he couldn't be a spy because he very clearly has a British accent and the rest of his uniform is right there in the open. Maybe we'll find out next week.

[Pestilentia]

I cried when Frank and Claire walked the fields at Culloden. I know very little about Scottish history other than what I've learned in the Outlander series of books but the mere word "Culloden" sends an icy shiver through my heart just the same as do the words Fredericksburg or Trail of Tears or My Lai. Just slaughter, slaughter, slaughter. I'd love to walk those fields someday but would think the emotional cost far to high to do so. Damn England, anyway. Such a rich culture just gone.

 

Yet another stellar turn by Dougal speaking to the Jacobite cause- may as well call this The Graham McTavish Show when he is on screen. While I did not understand the language his passion was clear.

 

I also love how the Angus character is developing. I found his anger when he found Claire with the womenfolk kind of endearing- you just know he had been searching and searching and getting more and more frustrated and worried when he could not find her. First because Dougal would tan his hide, but also because the boys are accepting her and even becoming a bit fond. It's like when you lose your dog- when you finally find them you want to clobber them for running away but at the same time are so glad to see them. All the gang are developing into their characters brilliantly- there is not one single actor on this show that disappoints me.

 

Perfect Ned Gowan- the guy nailed him. It's nice that Claire has someone like him around to talk to from time to time, although he is clearly Dougal's man and she'd better understand that sooner rather than later.

 

And the scenery- my God, the scenery.

I am rapt viewing this show.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Pestilentia

[terrymct]

I thought this episode was a bit slow, especially in the middle half where they repeated the war collections over and over again. Drunk Claire trying to rescue a goat, sweet scandalized Jamie at Claire's invitation into her bedroom, and Claire's boys defending her at the tavern made it all worth it though. Rupert's "I've never heard a woman make a joke before" was the line of the night.

 

I thought he said "I've never heard the woman make a joke before".   Certainly he must have been teased by a few women before, at the least by some female relatives.

[Insomnia]

Anyway, in closing, this was the meanest ending they've ever given us! How can you leave it like that, Show?! Ack! My question though is what was that guy who was a redcoat doing apparently living and working in a random little McKenzie village? Was he a Scot who was with the English army? Or an Englishman who was with the Scots? That confused me a little.

So . . . what WAS that British solider doing all by himself in MacKenzie lands?  He was dressed like a blacksmith so I wonder if he had been on patrol, his horse threw a shoe and he had to walk it to that village to have it seen to (maybe he was even doing the work himself) while the rest of his regiment rode on without him.  That’s one guess anyway.

 

I'm just guessing, but since he did have a blacksmith's apron on, his horse through a shoe or something similar, but being British, the Scots weren't going to help him so he had to do it himself, and being British, he just went and took what he wanted anyway.

[ihartcoffee]

Here's a Hollywood Reporter interview with the actor who plays Dougal following (and about) the 5th episode. There are some SPOILERS so please be mindful that by reading it, you may come upon some plot points you didn't want to know.

 

'Outlander': Graham McTavish on Dougal's "Superobjective," Claire and Rewriting History

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/outlander-graham-mctavish-dougal-729642

  

Thank you for posting that, I enjoyed it. Dougal is a complex character.

I cried when Frank and Claire walked the fields at Culloden. I know very little about Scottish history other than what I've learned in the Outlander series of books but the mere word "Culloden" sends an icy shiver through my heart just the same as do the words Fredericksburg or Trail of Tears or My Lai. Just slaughter, slaughter, slaughter. I'd love to walk those fields someday but would think the emotional cost far to high to do so. Damn England, anyway. Such a rich culture just gone.

 

Yet another stellar turn by Dougal speaking to the Jacobite cause- may as well call this The Graham McTavish Show when he is on screen. While I did not understand the language his passion was clear.

 

I also love how the Angus character is developing. I found his anger when he found Claire with the womenfolk kind of endearing- you just know he had been searching and searching and getting more and more frustrated and worried when he could not find her. First because Dougal would tan his hide, but also because the boys are accepting her and even becoming a bit fond. It's like when you lose your dog- when you finally find them you want to clobber them for running away but at the same time are so glad to see them. All the gang are developing into their characters brilliantly- there is not one single actor on this show that disappoints me.

 

Perfect Ned Gowan- the guy nailed him. It's nice that Claire has someone like him around to talk to from time to time, although he is clearly Dougal's man and she'd better understand that sooner rather than later.

 

And the scenery- my God, the scenery.

I am rapt viewing this show.

I agree about Ned, she bonded quickly with him and got to comfortable. He's still Dougal's man.

I am loving Angus too for some reason. The way he slammed that dudes head into the table was hilarious.

I was pretty grossed out over the warm piss, that would smell so nasty.

[ihartcoffee]

I thought he said "I've never heard the woman make a joke before".   Certainly he must have been teased by a few women before, at the least by some female relatives.

  

Right, but maybe he isn't used to them joking in that sort of setting? Claire is no tavern wench.

I'm just guessing, but since he did have a blacksmith's apron on, his horse through a shoe or something similar, but being British, the Scots weren't going to help him so he had to do it himself, and being British, he just went and took what he wanted anyway.

I think you are correct. He sure turned the tables at the end..... where are all your little friends now? And I have my little friends with me now. Ha!

[Nidratime]

I was pretty grossed out over the warm piss, that would smell so nasty.

 

 

That was fascinating, but yeah ... I can't imagine participating in that little "pissing party." ;-) And, how do they keep it warm? (Ugh.)

 

Oh, and poor Jamie. If anyone could use modern day velcro, he could! Can't imagine having to sew my shirt up every couple of days. By the end of their fund raising tour, he must've just put a few stitches in and been done with it! (Or, maybe he should've had Mrs. Fitz give him a bunch of old shirts from the Castle's closet where she was getting all of Claire's clothes.)

[justspiffy]

I cried when Frank and Claire walked the fields at Culloden. I know very little about Scottish history other than what I've learned in the Outlander series of books but the mere word "Culloden" sends an icy shiver through my heart just the same as do the words Fredericksburg or Trail of Tears or My Lai. Just slaughter, slaughter, slaughter. I'd love to walk those fields someday but would think the emotional cost far to high to do so. Damn England, anyway. Such a rich culture just gone.

 

And the scenery- my God, the scenery.

I am rapt viewing this show.

I was able to visit Culloden several years ago -

I had just finished reading the first two books

. It's a very sobering experience. We even stayed at Culloden House. No ghosts though!

Edited September 7, 2014 by Athena
Book talk.

[nara]

I think you are correct. He sure turned the tables at the end..... where are all your little friends now? And I have my little friends with me now. Ha!

My first reaction was that he was the English version of Jamie.  He's he only one chivalrous enough to stand up for Claire.  However, sensible enough to know that he was outnumbered and that getting killed would be of no help to a lady in distressed.  He picked his battle, got reinforcements, and came after her to help her again.

 

On a side note, it's starting to be comical how many times they show Jamie with his shirt off.  It's almost like they have a Jamie shirtless quota the way other shows have a naked woman quota (I'm talking to you, Game of Thrones).  I'm not complaining, but I don't recall any other actor in the show being seen that way for any purpose.

[WatchrTina]

 

It's almost like they have a Jamie shirtless quota the way other shows have a naked woman quota (I'm talking to you, Game of Thrones).

It's a good thing Jamie was the first actor cast and they were able to send him to the gym for six weeks to put on 2 stone of pure muscle.  I'm enjoying imagining the conversation, "Dude, you're gonna be shirtless about half the time.  Start lifting free weights."

[absnow54]

Oh, and poor Jamie. If anyone could use modern day velcro, he could! Can't imagine having to sew my shirt up every couple of days. By the end of their fund raising tour, he must've just put a few stitches in and been done with it! (Or, maybe he should've had Mrs. Fitz give him a bunch of old shirts from the Castle's closet where she was getting all of Claire's clothes.)

I know it wasn't funny, but I laughed towards the end when Dougal went to rip his shirt, and Jamie was like "Please, I can take it off myself. No need to be so dramatic!" and took the shirt off himself. 

[WatchrTina]

Okay, I want to share a theory I have.  I spotted a young, slim, clean-shaven highlander in the very first episode and I've been keeping an eye out for him ever since, but you almost never see him in a clear shot.  He's the guy with very long hair who spurs his horse after Jamie as they charge the redcoats at Cocknammon rock.  I think he's the highlander who removes his bonnet when Geordie dies.  I think I spotted him walking beside the horses in an early scene in tonights episode (Rent), in the background tending to the horses when all the named characters are sitting around the fire and trash-talking about women, and I'm fairly sure I got a good look at him in the scene where Claire cracks her joke with Rupert.  He standing first behind Claire and then, after Jamie moves, the two of them are standing side-by-side tending the horse but his face is hidden by Jamie's most of the time.  I think this may be Sam's poor, long-suffering, hardly-ever-used stunt double.  He's got a chiseled face, he's nice and tall, and he seems to be a deft hand with the horses (I suspect he was walking in that one scene beside a skittish horse just in case there was trouble.)  I think he wears such a long wig in order to make sure that he is not mistaken for Jamie in long shots.  Anyway, that's my theory.  I may have to make spotting him into a drinking game for future episodes.

 

On a completely different topic, I declare this to be my favorite quote of the episode:  "But of course things were much less civilized then, back when men were men and the pernicious weed of civilization was less rampant upon the wild bonny face of this land." -- Ned Gowan, a poet at heart.

Edited September 7, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Pestilentia]

LOL, WatchrTina I've had my eye out for that guy from the day you first mentioned him.

 

This guy?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Pestilentia

[attica]

I remember learning about the use of urine in fixing the scent of perfumes. The cheap perfumes used horse urine, the expensive perfumes used whale shit (they call it ambergris, but it's fecal). I suspect now they just use Chemistry. I didn't know about the fabric-dyeing usage, but it makes sense.

 

Six degrees: Bill Patterson (Ned) played Mr. Meagles in the most recent adaptation of Little Dorrit. wherein his daughter marries a Mr. Gowan.

they have a Jamie shirtless quota

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they did, and I applaud the fan service.

[WatchrTina]

Hey Pestilentia, that's the one!   Well done you!  Now I need a whisky shot.

[Thalia]

Almost immediately I liked this show more in retrospect than I did in the moment. As in, I turned the channel to a football game for about ten minutes early on (I know, I know. Flog me now.) But the minute it was over, I was like, well that was a verra good show and now we're getting somewhere! Literally.

Several nice Jamie scenes in RENT. Claire, and we, saw that he is smart enough to choose his battles, that he knows how to defuse a tense situation w/o violence, and that he respects and protects womenfolk. Sigh. She already knew he was good with his broadsword. So to speak.

I loved the flashback scene. I like Tobias Menzies so much that it seems I'm hoping every week to see a smidgen of Frank.

[Pestilentia]

I remember learning about the use of urine in fixing the scent of perfumes. The cheap perfumes used horse urine, the expensive perfumes used whale shit (they call it ambergris, but it's fecal).

FWIW I believe that ambergris is passed along with fecal matter but is not fecal itself.

It can also be passed orally.

[ihartcoffee]

Okay, I want to share a theory I have.  I spotted a young, slim, clean-shaven highlander in the very first episode and I've been keeping an eye out for him ever since, but you almost never see him in a clear shot.  He's the guy with very long hair who spurs his horse after Jamie as they charge the redcoats at Cocknammon rock.  I think he's the highlander who removes his bonnet when Geordie dies.  I think I spotted him walking beside the horses in an early scene in tonights episode (Rent), in the background tending to the horses when all the named characters are sitting around the fire and trash-talking about women, and I'm fairly sure I got a good look at him in the scene where Claire cracks her joke with Rupert.  He standing first behind Claire and then, after Jamie moves, the two of them are standing side-by-side tending the horse but his face is hidden by Jamie's most of the time.  I think this may be Sam's poor, long-suffering, hardly-ever-used stunt double.  He's got a chiseled face, he's nice and tall, and he seems to be a deft hand with the horses (I suspect he was walking in that one scene beside a skittish horse just in case there was trouble.)  I think he wears such a long wig in order to make sure that he is not mistaken for Jamie in long shots.  Anyway, that's my theory.  I may have to make spotting him into a drinking game for future episodes.

 

On a completely different topic, I declare this to be my favorite quote of the episode:  "But of course things were much less civilized then, back when men were men and the pernicious weed of civilization was less rampant upon the wild bonny face of this land." -- Ned Gowan, a poet at heart.

So you're the one who has me looking for this guy!  It makes the show more interesting, like a game of where's Whaldo. 

[bluebonnet]

Jesus God, the cinematography is so achingly beautiful it makes my throat lumpy.  They aren't just doing helicopter shots of random landscapes.  It's like they are bringing the landscape along as a whole other character.  Even the camera angles the directors are using for the horses or the groupings of people is breathtaking.  

 

This was such a great episode, I feel I have a thousand things to say about it.  I've just watched it three times in a row.  I can't remember ever watching an episode of television more than once in a single sitting, let alone three times.  

 

Ned Gowan was just amazing.  I loved when he talked about how back in the day men were men.  It cracked me up because just yesterday I was visiting my grandfather for weekly story time and  he looks at my nephew playing on an ipad and sighs wistfully and says , "boys these days, they don't know what hard work means.  they've gone soft.  back in my day, men were men and..." then proceeds to tell a particular story (one of those where he walked to school and home each day, uphill both ways, to be sure) that gets more embellished with each telling about just how manly things were in his day.  It's so easy to see why Claire felt Ned trustworthy because he's the embodiment of everyone's grandpa.  I also really like how, with his "men were men" story in mind, he cowered in the corner when the 'real men' got up to fight for the lady's honor.  At first I thought he was just protecting Claire from flying fists and kilts, but no.  He's definitely cowering.  He's so the everyman's grandpa.  

 

I was a bit worried that they would forget all about Dougal's assault on Claire.  Claire doesn't mention it again with words, nor does Dougal, but she definitely does with body language.  When she finally confronts him about thievery, he stalks towards her - not looking as though he means to strike her or anything but have a few harsh words with her - she takes several steps away from him causing him to pause.  It was a really nice way of letting us know that Claire remembers without having to verbally remind the audience that he recently assaulted her.  

 

Some of those small moments with Claire and Jamie were just so great.  I especially liked when she went to get him the blanket and he was watching her.  He let us know exactly when Claire turned back towards him without the camera showing us because he quickly and shyly lowered his eyes. It's like the audience caught him looking at her ass and he had the shame to try to cover it up.  lol, really cute.  Then the meeting at breakfast the next morning.  He looked so young there, acting shy as though he did something nearly scandalous by sleeping outside her door and then getting caught.  It was like a boy running away after having his first kiss.

 

The flashforwardbacks continue to be an ingenious tool, especially since they serve several functions.  They show us who Claire is in her own time and why she's dealing with her current situation the way she is.  They give more insight into her relationship with Frank, and also tell us who Frank is as a person.  And they provide necessary exposition that could be clunky if given solely through the voiceovers.  So well done.

 

The best part of this episode, by far, was the women waulking wool.  It was just beautiful.  It's also an interesting scene to put in at this point because of the way Claire has been introduced to the culture.  Entry into a new culture often comes by way of one's gender group.  Claire's always going to be an outlander, but she could have been just a bit less if she'd had more of an opportunity to get to know women.  She's gotten to know Mrs. Fitz, but in a caretaker relationship.  There's Geillis, but Geillis is also sort of on the outside since she's considered a witch.  We never see other women with Geillis.  So Claire's entry to 18th century Highlanders has been almost completely by way of men.  The scene with the women waulking felt like a breath of fresh air for Claire.  She didn't have to be completely on her guard or feel constant stress because she was accepted as long as she proved willing to do what they do, even if it involved hot piss.  Then she could have loose lips (bottoms up, geronimo, lol) because this part of the women's work was secret stuff.  She wouldn't tell, and neither would they.  

 

Are taxes on the honor system?  Is it just expected that tenants would will pay what they owe?  Ned was giving receipts for what was given but nothing was discussed about how the tenants came to decide their tax responsibility.  I guess it's not difficult to eyeball it, anyway, since a quick view around the village would tell someone what they have and what they don't.  Also, the crucified man on the right looked like the man who had nothing to give.  Was it meant to be the same or just a reusing of an extra or just two different men entirely?

 

The only thing I really didn't like was the redcoat in the village.  It was weird that no one spoke up about it when they first came.  It's not like Dougal and co didn't know this was a redcoat.  Even if they missed the coat (highly unlikely), the dude had the boots and accent of an English officer.  Jamie made himself scarce when they came up on the watch, even though the watch was at a decent distance to not be able to see specifically who was with Dougal.  And yet, he was front and center the entire time they are in the village with the redcoat.  I don't know, the scene just felt really sloppy though I'm willing to forgive since the plot from that turned out well and promises to be even better. 

 

Not going to lie, I'll probably watch this several more times this week.  Just a fantastic hour of television. 

[terrymct]

I remember learning about the use of urine in fixing the scent of perfumes. The cheap perfumes used horse urine, the expensive perfumes used whale shit (they call it ambergris, but it's fecal). I suspect now they just use Chemistry. I didn't know about the fabric-dyeing usage, but it makes sense.

 

 

Ambergris is a product of the digestive system but not feces.  It's secreted by the liver and travels down the bile duct into the digestive system where it forms masses in the digestive system.   Sometimes squid beaks can be found in it, leading some scientists to suspect that it's purpose is to coat pointy  or otherwise sharp things as they pass through the digestive system so that they don't injure the whale.   People refer to it was whale shit or whale vomit, but it's not strictly either.

[Linderhill]

 

filthy jokes in Gallic

its actually Gaelic, Gallic is French. 

[justmehere]

I'd love to walk those fields someday but would think the emotional cost far to high to do so

 

 

I've been once and would go back again. There were fresh flowers at many of the clan grave markers, which shows how significant the event remains. There is palpable energy there that's a little hard to define. It felt sad but at the same time powerful and inclusive, like it's still occurring or about to occur (well, time is an illusion after all). I don't know if that qualifies as ghosts, but it was very noticeable.

 

Frank pointing out that it took less than an hour for so much destruction to occur was a great inclusion. Claire's desire to warn Ned and Dougal is understandable -- of course she'd try -- but there's no way she'd dissuade them.

 

(Total OT side note - I'm very eager to learn the outcome of the Scottish vote on independence that's coming up on Sept. 18. It has become quite a tight race.)

 

Claire's entry to 18th century Highlanders has been almost completely by way of men.  The scene with the women waulking felt like a breath of fresh air for Claire.

 

 

Completely agree. It was lovely to see an element of women's lives and to see Claire with them. Not that I object to lots of men in kilts, but the series is rather male-centric for having a very definite female lead.

 

I loved Ned's comment about how crowded the landscape was becoming and don't know how Claire managed not to laugh, given her knowledge of the 1945 landscape.

 

The bar fight was great, and I especially loved the bagpipes for music. Perfect. So much to love in this episode.

 

Edit:

its actually Gaelic, Gallic is French

 

.

Confusion is understandable since Scots pronounce Gaelic like "Gallic" as opposed to "Gaylic".

Edited September 7, 2014 by justmehere

[LunaNegra]

 .......  The best part of this episode, by far, was the women waulking wool.  It was just beautiful.  It's also an interesting scene to put in at this point because of the way Claire has been introduced to the culture.  Entry into a new culture often comes by way of one's gender group.  Claire's always going to be an outlander, but she could have been just a bit less if she'd had more of an opportunity to get to know women.  She's gotten to know Mrs. Fitz, but in a caretaker relationship.  There's Geillis, but Geillis is also sort of on the outside since she's considered a witch.  We never see other women with Geillis.  So Claire's entry to 18th century Highlanders has been almost completely by way of men.  The scene with the women waulking felt like a breath of fresh air for Claire.  She didn't have to be completely on her guard or feel constant stress because she was accepted as long as she proved willing to do what they do, even if it involved hot piss.  Then she could have loose lips (bottoms up, geronimo, lol) because this part of the women's work was secret stuff.  She wouldn't tell, and neither would they.  .............

 

............Also, the crucified man on the right looked like the man who had nothing to give.  Was it meant to be the same or just a reusing of an extra or just two different men entirely?

 

Bluebonnet - your anthropological observation about gender and culture entry was well-said and astute. Nice!

 

I too was wondering if the crucified guy was supposed to be the same person from the village? I expected to see the other person be his young son. I was relieved it wasn't but I was still left wondering if it was the same man.  If so, I was trying to place the geography and the rents:  Did he come from far away?

 

I would really like an Outlander map a la Game of Thrones that shows all the locations, etc.

[WatchrTina]

One thing I loved about the episode was the opening -- that beautiful shot of Claire by the lake quoting poetry.  Then Ned joins in -- what a wonderful introduction for the character.  And then we hear noise and the camera pulls back to reveal the MacKenzie crew having an impromptu wrestling match, reminding us that these louts are still on the scene.  It's such a fun whip-lash of mood.

[Keeta]

I love your recaps, not only for being hilariously spot-on, but also for the varying format each week. Keep up the great work!

[nara]

(Total OT side note - I'm very eager to learn the outcome of the Scottish vote on independence that's coming up on Sept. 18. It has become quite a tight race.)

 

I've been wondering if the timing of the airing of this show is entirely coincidental.  I read somewhere that it's not being aired in the UK... Can someone confirm that, please?

*************

Other musings...

 

• I like how Jamie has never been afraid to correct Claire when she's behaving badly.  He escorted her out of the concert when she was drunk, was very direct with her regarding the fact that she's hiding info and clearly still thinking about bolting, and then he called her on her foolhardy argument with Angus.   Do we know what the age difference is between Claire and Jamie? If it's not spoilery, can someone share their ages?

 

• I also like the fact that whenever there's been an especially sexual tension-filled moment between them, they revert to the formal Mr. McTavish and Mistress Beauchamp (I think that's how they spell it), instead of their first names or Sassenach.  I also noticed that Jamie called her "woman" instead of "lassie" when he was angry with her.  These differences are well planned.

 

• Random question:  Why is Claire sleeping in the room fully dressed?  That seems uncomfortable.  I get that she has to do that when sleeping out with the guys, but you think she'd take the opportunity to remove some of those tight clothes when she has a private room....Of course, if Jamie had seen her not fully dressed, he would have probably dropped dead from embarrassment!  A lot has changed since that first day when they found her in her "shift".

 

• I wonder how much of Dougal's tearing of Jamie's shirt was designed for dramatics vs. a desire to portray Jamie as a victim and diminish him in the eyes of the tenants of MacKenzie lands.  He takes every opportunity to put Jamie down and this seems no different.  He was also very willing for Jamie to go around in rags (another humiliation) in retaliation for Claire's defiance in refusing the mend the shirt.  BTW, it annoyed me a little that Claire in her anger at Dougal's actions, did not just take the opportunity to do Jamie a favor.  Was she annoyed that Jamie wasn't taking her side during the Dougal/Angus arguments?

 

• I've been a little critical of Claire's behavior in this episode.  However, I have to say that Dougal and company should not have been surprised that Claire assumed they were doing something bad when they deliberately spoke in Gaelic so that Claire could not understand them and they behaved suspiciously (2 bags of money, displaying Jamie's scars, etc.).  I know that I've been in situations when I suspected that people speaking in a foreign language were talking about me and it made me uncomfortable.  I also am very careful to speak the common language when I am in the company of people of multiple nationalities to avoid that issue.  It did make me wonder even more why Dougal brought Claire along.  Surely, bringing a "spy" along when collecting money for the rebellion was especially foolish.  Options include:  1) He wanted to prevent her from becoming friendly with Colum in his absence, 2) He wanted to get to know her better himself, 3) He sees that Jamie likes her and sees her as a way to control Jamie, or 4) he really did think there may be a need for a healer along the way (maybe some sick tenants)

 

• And finally, I'm glad to now realize why she traveled back to the year that she did.  I though it odd that she did not go back exactly 200 years.  Of course, it makes sense for it to be a few years before the major battle because it would allow her the ability to be there for a while. 

[WatchrTina]

 

Do we know what the age difference is between Claire and Jamie? If it's not spoilery, can someone share their ages?

Their ages have not been revealed in the show but they have gone to great pains to refer to Jamie as "Young Jamie" and "the lad" so it seems clear that Jamie is younger than Claire.

 

 

I wonder how much of Dougal's tearing of Jamie's shirt was designed for dramatics vs. a desire to portray Jamie as a victim and diminish him in the eyes of the tenants of MacKenzie lands.

Oooh I love this observation.  I said after the non-oath-taking that Jamie still represents a threat to Dougal because of the positive reaction the audience had to his pledge of obedience and alliance.  I think in the last scene in The Gathering (the one down in Claire's surgery) Dougal says he is going to collect the rent from those people who could not come to the Gathering so presumably the people we met in this episode are member of the Clan (one certainly declares himself "A MacKenzie") and would get a vote on the next Laird.  

 

I also like Nana's speculations about why Dougal brought Claire along on the trip.  Because it's true -- if you are planning to collect money for a rebellion the last thing you need to carry about with you is a suspected English spy.

Edited September 7, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Nidratime]

One thing I loved about the episode was the opening -- that beautiful shot of Claire by the lake quoting poetry.

 

 

That was a gorgeous shot. It could've been a movie poster, if this were a movie.

 

 

It did make me wonder even more why Dougal brought Claire along.  Surely, bringing a "spy" along when collecting money for the rebellion was especially foolish.  Options include:  1) He wanted to prevent her from becoming friendly with Colum in his absence, 2) He wanted to get to know her better himself, 3) He sees that Jamie likes her and sees her as a way to control Jamie, or 4) he really did think there may be a need for a healer along the way (maybe some sick tenants)

 

 

I know that Dougal and his men do not have to explain themselves to anyone they were "visiting" or introduce Claire in any fashion, which makes one wonder what or who the outlying clansman thought she was -- one woman traveling with this group of men, clearly a gentlewoman and English at that! It's no wonder the men in that last tavern thought she was a woman of loose morals, even with her breeding and relative finery. She may not have looked like a camp follower, but I don't think they would think her a healer, along for the ride as the group's doctor.

[WaltersHair]

I enjoyed this episode very much, most especially because it focused on the history and expanded the audience's knowledge of the minor characters. I was dubious about this series when the pilot featured not only near rape, but flogging and literal bodice ripping. As long as a chunk of the focus stays the way it is, I'll be quite happy.

 

I thought the Englishman checking on Claire's well being was an interesting twist.

 

My only real criticism is Claire. I don't know if it's the actress or the writing, She 'flounces' too much, huffs and puffs when it isn't necessary, which is why (I think) the men aren't taking her seriously. Delivery of information is crucial.  The actress is otherwise very good and commands attention.

Jamie also doesn't have much of screen presence. I hope that changes.

The costume porn is ridiculously good, but completely unbelievable.

 

Edited September 7, 2014 by WaltersHair

[BizBuzz]

I don't have time to really get into my thoughts on this episode, and I certainly don't have time to go through the responses as of yet, but OMG, I cannot believe that they ended this episode the way they did!  I was hollering at the TV and my daughter didn't know what the heck was going on.

 

Ever since I have started watching this show, my Anglophile tendencies have grown more into the Scotophile side - so much so that I started concentrating heavily on this Scottish independence thing ... very intensely as of the last few days.  This morning, I was reading some stuff about the Jacobites and the whole history of the Scottish being defeated, and then I watched this episode and I was almost crying for their loss.  Yeah, I am an American and I had no idea what the Scottish have gone through over the last 300 years.

 

It seems like the Scottish Referendum going on now is the culmination of what happened during the time period where Claire is now.  Spooky how real life coincides with fiction. 

 

Anyway, like I said, can't spend time on this right now, but wanted to get it out that I saw it, and I loved absolutely EVERY minute of it.

[Athena]

Here's a Hollywood Reporter interview with the actor who plays Dougal following (and about) the 5th episode. There are some SPOILERS so please be mindful that by reading it, you may come upon some plot points you didn't want to know.

 

'Outlander': Graham McTavish on Dougal's "Superobjective," Claire and Rewriting History

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/outlander-graham-mctavish-dougal-729642

 

There are some major spoilers in this interview not just for this episode, but a couple of small ones for the rest of the season. I don't recommend it to the unsullied/non-book watchers. 

[Glaze Crazy]

I'm always glad to read others' comments on each episode.  When I rewatch the episode later in the week it gives me another POV on some stuff I either didn't catch or saw in a different way.

 

My goodness, the color saturation of the scenery, especially the riverbanks and water.  Claire's memory of visiting Culloden Moor was again in that mid 20th century sepia tone for a great contrast to her current situation. 

 

At first I wasn't too happy with making Claire look like a nag/shrew, but  after some thought and another watch I can see they actually showed most of the major characters in good and bad light. Most of the clansmen seemed like jerks in the beginning but showed they would come to her defense at the end.   The focus on how the clan conversing in Gaelic has kept Claire out of the camaraiderie at the campfires was a great setup for the pub brawl later.  The men are continuing to get used to her and defend her even though she didn't know what it was about when in happened.  I"m glad that Jamie was not included in that scene.  I like that the clanmen, Dougal and Murtagh takes the action on their own.

 

Dougal seemed to be played both positive and negative in different scenes, so he remains the enigma of good-vs-bad.  I like that he continues to be suspicious of Claire's ulterior motives.  Love the setup for next week with Claire now able to escape back to the English and away from the MacKenzies.  Dougal knows if she goes all the activites they've been up to, raising funds, is going to bite them big time. 

 

Jamie seemed to be relatively level this episode, walking a fine line of either staying out of it or gently diffusing potentially volatile situations, until he finally had to confront Dougal about the shirt thing.  I suspect he slipped out of sight of The Watch because those men might know him personally, and what he's worth.  The random English soldier in a small village is less likely to know who he is if they have never seen him before, so for someone upthread who asked, that's probably why he didn't feel the need to duck behind a wagon or something when that English man showed up.  As far as a random English guy in the village, if the countryside was used to seeing the soldiers, I suspect the men knew that's what he was, even out of uniform.

 

Ned Gowan's transition was the opposite of the rest, he started off as friendly and his last word to Claire was "eh" as he walked by.  I took this as him pulling back because he's concerned she is going to be a problem to the clan since she now knows they are collecting funds for the Jacobite cause.  She can theoretically get them all killed as traitors of the crown.   Which is where we leave her and Dougal in that awesome fade-to-black cliffhanger, surrounded by a bunch of redcoats on horseback...DUN!

 

ETA: for anyone who's interested in Scotland history, a twitter friend of mine had posted a link to Neil Oliver's BBC "History of Scotland" series on YouTube and I got sucked into it big time.  I have no idea if it's really a "respectable" version of history or if folks in the UK see it as tripe, but for me it was very informative.  It runs 10 1 hour episodes and goes from early Roman history to present day. I think it's from around 2008, so just a bit on the current Scotland independence movement, but does give a good historic background to what's being decided on Sept. 18. 

 

There are several different uploads so poke around in there to find them all.  Here's a link to one of the Episode 1 videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJt-6z9ENIA

Edited September 7, 2014 by Glaze Crazy

[nara]

Jamie seemed to be relatively level this episode, walking a fine line of either staying out of it or gently diffusing potentially volatile situations, until he finally had to confront Dougal about the shirt thing.  I suspect he slipped out of sight of The Watch because those men might know him personally, and what he's worth.  The random English soldier in a small village is less likely to know who he is if they have never seen him before, so for someone upthread who asked, that's probably why he didn't feel the need to duck behind a wagon or something when that English man showed up.  As far as a random English guy in the village, if the countryside was used to seeing the soldiers, I suspect the men knew that's what he was, even out of uniform.

 

I agree with your comments that it's unlikely that the random redcoat would recognize Jamie.  However, more importantly (I think), Claire could have been in real danger from Dougal and Co. at that moment, given the argument they were having.  I cannot see Jamie running off to save himself and not being available to intervene on her behalf if it became necessary.

[Sakura12]

This episode did seem a lot longer than the previous ones, I still enjoyed it though. I really like that each week we get to see different sides of the other characters. Last week we got some more depth to Dougal, this week it was Angus. It's not a whole lot and it's not in your face so I really like how the show is doing that. I guess that's why I liked BSG as well. 

 

I was yelling at Claire not to reveal the future to them, then she said she knows she couldn't, then she goes and does it anyway. She could have an opinion as Ned stated but she shouldn't present it as fact. Although having an opinion like that as a woman is not common either. She needs to be more careful. However I would probably be the same way. I'm a woman, hear me roar! lol

 

I loved Jamie's scandalized reaction to Claire inviting him into her room. I also loved him sleeping outside her room in case any drunk men came around. I do think Dougal used Jamie like that to put him in his place. He wanted to degrade him while also gaining sympathy for his cause. 

 

I think Rupert was surprised to hear Claire who they obviously know is an educated English woman make a dirty joke. 

 

It must be so horrible for Claire to know the future for some of those men and there is nothing she can do about it. It should be interesting to hear what Claire says to the Englishmen. Since technically she's supposed to be one of them.

[Insomnia]

I think taking Claire along is just a matter of if Dougal takes all the men with him, who is going to be left around that Dougal trusts to make sure she doesn't run off. He's got all the able castle men with him, or near enough they can't waste people on one Sassanach spy.

 

As much as Jaime is at the same time smoldering and so just darn cute, he looses a teeny bit from me tonight for initially being a dick like everyone else. He excluded her at the start pretty much the same as the other guys. For months. It just doesn't ring true as the guy who would take a beating for a girl he didn't know, or sleep across the threshold of a woman, but not her room.

 

Intentional dick, or accidental dick, it's a dick still the same. *insert force grumpy face here because I just called Jaime a dick, and I don't like it.*

[thingamajig]

 

The costume porn is ridiculously good, but completely unbelievable.

Seriously, even my husband, who never notices clothes and was only watching last night to humor me, mentioned Claire's clothes and wondered why she had such a nice coat.  I love the costumes but it does get ridiculous.

[WatchrTina]

I forgive the costume porn because Terry made a very good point in her podcast that having Claire change clothes helps the viewer keep track of time. New day -- new outfit. For example, the first time I got to the scene of Dougal following Claire to the river at the end of the episode and calling her out for having a contrary political opinion, I thought the timing was weird. I thought "Now you're bringing that up?" But when I watched the second time I realized that Claire is in the same outfit when she comes down for breakfast and has her conversation with Ned, warning him about the hopelessness of their cause. After the brawl, after Claire tends everyone's wounds AND finds out she was the cause, you see Ned sit down with Dougal, when, I presume, he told Dougal what she said. The next scene is outside as they are leaving that pub and then they are at their next campsite and Claire is still wearing the same outfit. So now I understand that it was the same day and that Dougal let her go to the river by herself because he wanted to confront her alone about what she said to Ned that morning. Same costume on Claire, same day.

So, I forgive the costume porn in the interest of clarifying the chronology of the episode.

Edited September 9, 2014 by WatchrTina

[absnow54]

As much as Jaime is at the same time smoldering and so just darn cute, he looses a teeny bit from me tonight for initially being a dick like everyone else. He excluded her at the start pretty much the same as the other guys. For months. It just doesn't ring true as the guy who would take a beating for a girl he didn't know, or sleep across the threshold of a woman, but not her room.

I thought he was making an effort, but Claire was being a brat because she'd already decided that everyone was excluding her (let's be honest, we've all been there.) I thought him bringing her bread was a peace offering, she got snappy, he told it like it was, and then he left.

[ganesh]

The cheap perfumes used horse urine, the expensive perfumes used whale shit (they call it ambergris, but it's fecal).

 

Whales are the gentle giants of the deep, you know.

 

I like Tobias Menzies so much that it seems I'm hoping every week to see a smidgen of Frank.

 

I think it's important to include Frank because it reinforces that Claire isn't just out on trip through time like the Doctor but actually was in what seems to be a terrible accident and she is trying to get back. It's also a clever way to dispense exposition and point out how what history may record isn't exactly how things might have actually occurred. 

[Insomnia]

It's true! Jaime was a very little dick, by comparison. (Something I never thought I might be typing.) But he's still a bit of a dick since it's been going on for a while (I missed if Claire said a month or months).

 

Edited for context: Re Jaime's peace offering.

 

Frank isn't a dick (probably).

Edited September 7, 2014 by Insomnia