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S00.E164: The Church On Ruby Road


DanaK
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2023 Christmas special with Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson

Premieres Christmas Day, Monday December 25 at 12:55pm GMT on BBC One in the UK and Ireland and iPlayer in the UK and Disney+ internationally

Synopsis: Long ago, on Christmas Eve, a baby was abandoned in the snow. Today, Ruby Sunday meets the Doctor, goblins, stolen babies and, perhaps, the secret of her birth.

Writer: Russell T. Davies

Director: Mark Tonderai

Trailer

 

Edited by DanaK
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Good introduction to the Fifteenth Doctor. I’m hoping Ruby doesn’t turn out to be a Mary Sue. Going with goblins in a Christmas special? That’s a choice. Great that they have a whole system of existence that the Doctor had to work out in order to save the baby. Is “Lulu Belle” one name or two?

Any ideas on who the old lady is supposed to be? Once-and-future companion? The Master? Something else that popped out of Fourteen?

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On 12/25/2023 at 2:52 PM, Lantern7 said:

 

Any ideas on who the old lady is supposed to be? Once-and-future companion? The Master? Something else that popped out of Fourteen?

Maybe she is a friend of Wilf's from back in the day when they were looking for 10? At the beginning she didn't know what the police box was but at the end she did -- maybe some overflow metacrisis energy? I have NO idea. . . She didn't seem to be a malevolent character, more a supportive one. 

I laughed several times throughout this episode -- I loved his indignance when Ruby called the goblins time travellers. I caught "mavity" from the Doctor, so seems we're sticking with that.  The Doctor sings!

Ncuti's got good Doctor energy, and I like Ruby. Can't wait to see what that Tardis can do! 

Edited by Sailorgirl26
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41 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Going with goblins in a Christmas special? That’s a choice. 

Any ideas on who the old lady is supposed to be? Once-and-future companion? 

Changelings! The doctor and Ruby both, potentially. A very old theme. Ruby was dropped off by someone who looked human, though. 
 

i came hereto see if someone recognized her. Maybe it is an indication something changed  when the Doctor went back and rescued baby Ruby. 

The episode had a lot of range. Fancy glove exposition, singing puppet stage number, family drama, nightclub dancing, etc. 

Edited by Affogato
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That was fun. I watched with my entire family at my parents' house and we all had a good time. Also some really good location spotting in this one! That whole sequence with the giant snowman falling off the building - that building it fell off is the same one that played the shop where Rose worked, way back in 2005!

There were a bunch of very British references, mind. The old lady who knew what a TARDIS was, she was played by Anita Dobson, who has had a long and celebrated career as an actress but is still best known for a Christmas episode of Eastenders way back in the 80s. And Davina McCall! My whole family sat there going, "Are they going to kill off Davina McCall on Doctor Who on Christmas Day?!?!" But do overseas viewers know who Davina McCall is? (Answer: TV presenter, very well known in these parts, well on her way toward national treasure status)

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Is “Lulu Belle” one name or two?

We had the subtitles on to watch (room gets noisy with the whole family there) and they gave it as Lulubelle, all one word, for what it's worth.

Edited by Llywela
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Well, I'll never hear "Carol of the Bells" the same way again!

Interesting that once the Goblins were dealt with, and baby Ruby was picked up at the church, the Doctor chose not to pursue the Mysterious Hooded Person who dropped her off. I guess that person will remain a mystery, at least for now. 

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2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I’m hoping Ruby doesn’t turn out to be a Mary Sue.

Given what RTD did with Rose, Martha, and Donna, she'll probably end up being the most special person in the universe (until the next companion, that is).

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Well I liked it. I loved seeing The Doctor living his best life on the dance floor. He was lose and freewheeling, but still had the gravitas and mavity of The Doctor we’ve come to know the last 60 years. Plus he sings now. 
As to the neighbor lady, could it be Susan Forman, The Doctor’s granddaughter from the beginning?

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35 minutes ago, ajsnaves said:

Well I liked it.

Yeah I loved it, thought the Doctor, Ruby and goblins were all great as well as the extra characters.  Thought the neighbour lady might be Ruby's mum - or the woman who dropped her off at least?

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Ah, Doctor Who on Christmas Day, where it belongs! No killer Santas or deadly Christmas trees this year, though. 😢

Today's episode marks the second time that RTD has called on Davina McCall, but this time she got to play a human being! (Huh, maybe there *was* a killer Christmas tree in that alternate timeline?)

We enjoyed being introduced to Ruby... I like RTD's confidence in spending so much time with the new companion, as opposed to following the Doctor through a convoluted space plot. If we're meant to identify with her, it's helpful to get to know her a bit.

The transition from the "real" Sunday household to the "alt" Sunday household was a bit unclear; I suppose it was meant to be jarring, but I wondered why Ruby's mum & gran didn't react more to the presence of the Doctor in the house.

We're barely into RTD's second tenure, and we've already had 14, Donna, and Mrs. Flood break the fourth wall. How many other times has this happened since the 2005 restart (I can think of 12 doing so in the prologue of "Listen", are there more examples?)

Finally, did anyone else experience "Lapti Nek" flashbacks during the goblin feast song?

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4 hours ago, Llywela said:

The old lady who knew what a TARDIS was, she was played by Anita Dobson, who has had a long and celebrated career as an actress but is still best known for a Christmas episode of Eastenders way back in the 80s.

Isn't she also married to Queen guitarist (and astrophysicist) Brian May?

 

2 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

As to the neighbor lady, could it be Susan Forman, The Doctor’s granddaughter from the beginning?

When we first saw her, complaining about the TARDIS in the middle of the sidewalk, she didn't seem to know what it was.

 

1 hour ago, Nozycat said:

Thought the neighbour lady might be Ruby's mum - or the woman who dropped her off at least?

I thought so too, but then I thought she's too old to be Ruby's mother. Although there's no reason to believe at the moment that the person who dropped her off at the church was actually her mother. Or even a woman. Or even human. Maybe it was River Song lol.

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1 hour ago, Starchild said:

Maybe it was River Song lol.

Weirdly, I had this same thought! 😂

I enjoyed this! It has always taken me a minute to adjust to a new Doctor, and I think spending so much time with 15 in the previous special helped. I love Gatwa’s energy; watching him get lost in the music as he was dancing was fun; that was a new facet of the Doctor that we’ve not seen. 
 

I’m curious about who Mrs. Flood is and what the explanation for her not-knowing-then-knowing what the TARDIS is will be.

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42 minutes ago, Turtle Wexler said:

I’m curious about who Mrs. Flood is and what the explanation for her not-knowing-then-knowing what the TARDIS is will be.

I don't think this is what it is, but it might be a case of her not realizing it was a TARDIS until she saw it dematerialize.  In universe, the automatic association of police boxes with the Doctor shouldn't necessarily be as strong as it is with us. 

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Overnight numbers for the special were 4.73 million viewers. It was 3rd for the night, behind King Charles’ speech at 1st with 7.48 million viewers (shown across multiple channels) and Strictly at #2 with 5.29 million viewers 

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Loved that! Disney must have given RTD a much bigger budget than the Beeb ever did.  And Gatwa is a lot of infectious fun. I'm reserving judgement on Ruby, since so many of the companions fall in love with the Doctor and by the time Yaz showed up I was sick of it.

Speaking of Whitaker, I never had a problem with her as the Doctor, just what Chibnall's team wrote for her. I would have hated it just as much for any male doctor. Turning the Doctor into a Whispering Angel, more Daleks, more Cybermen, The Flux, Sasha Dewan chewing the scenery as the Master...

I may be one of the few people that didn't mind The Timeless Child stuff tho. Go figure.

 

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12 hours ago, Turtle Wexler said:

I love Gatwa’s energy; watching him get lost in the music as he was dancing was fun; that was a new facet of the Doctor that we’ve not seen. 

That reminded me in a fun way of Eleven's uninhibited dancing at Rory and Amy's wedding, but with much more control over his own body than the "drunk giraffe" flailing. It was like he finally had a body that was capable of doing what was in his heart(s).

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Wow, I'm so glad to enjoy seeing new Doctor Who again!! And this new lad seems to be fun, not a mopey nothing that can get ignored in a room with no one else in it. Sorry Jodie, maybe you have charisma in the hands of a better showrunner, but you often seemed to not get any attention in your own dingy console room.

But Ncuti - he's a hoot!! And I'm loving him getting his kilted groove on. More please!!!

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4 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Speaking of Whitaker, I never had a problem with her as the Doctor, just what Chibnall's team wrote for her.

I saw someone online react to this episode with the comment (paraphrased) "just think what Jodie could have done with this kind of writing."

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I really liked it. It was light and fun. Something we didn't have from Doctor Who in far, far too long.

I saw a bunch of people on Youtube complaining about just that, even before the episode came out and there were just clips of the Goblins. Which is baffling to me, since those are the same people who wanted RTD back. Do they just not remember how RTD likes to start his series off? In 2005 the Doctor was choked by a disembodied plastic arm for about 5 minutes in the most slapstick scene I've ever seen. Some people are weird.

I'm wondering if Mrs. Flood is actually somebody important or just something thrown in there for fun. That she didn't know what the Tardis was at first could either mean that she wasn't familiar with this particular Tardis or she was just pretending, for some reason. Who knows?

16 hours ago, owenthurman said:

The only water in the forest is the Flood

…is that how it went?

😆

I'm still baffled that Moffat doesn't know that there are ponds in forests...

5 hours ago, mammaM said:

I thought it was "the only water in the forest is a river"

thatsthejoke.jpeg

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That was nice. I am liking the new Doctor and companion so far. I didn't mind that we skipped the overused "getting the new costume" shtick, but we got a confident "I am THE Doctor" moment, so all is well.

Mavity is still mavity, another plus. I wonder if there are some side-effects from the Ruby disappearance and return. Is that huge hole in her house going to stay there for now? Couldn't the Doctor fix it? It reminded me a bit of Moffat's crack from season 5, I hope that one doesn't make any reappearance. 

I wonder if Doctor's hesitation about the person who dropped Ruby off at the church was about him figuring out whether he would want to know where he comes from or not, after we had that parallel mentioned several times. Ruby probably wants to know, though, so I wonder if we will return to that scene again. She might ask for that, like Rose in The Father's Day.

Now 5 more months...

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So nice to have The Doctor on Christmas!  In the States we hear about "Ghosts & Goblins" at Halloween, but they're not much of a thing (outside of the Spidey verse). Their shenanigans seem more like Gremlins, but Goblins seem  more like Olde England. Glad they weren't some Big Bad aliens out to destroy Earth; just hungry Mischievous Imps.

Ms Flood was at first bovverred that Ncuti plopped his TARDIS in the middle of the sidewalk and not on the corner. Every neighborhood has one person who watches everything on the block like a Sheriff. (What's with the TARDIS coming and going in plain sight?) Maybe she's a member of L.I.N.D.A.; they knew what the TARDIS was.

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I thought this was very Disneyfied. It doesn't feel quite like Doctor Who, although I like the new Doctor. 
 

I was annoyed by some of Ruby's line delivery, but she's a cute thing, and shown to be brave, so I'll probably end up liking her too. 

I'm still waiting to be blown away by a Doctor's introduction like I was by "The Eleventh Hour." 

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I finally got to watch this episode, and my assessment echoes pretty much everyone else. However, I do have mixed feelings on one topic that has not been broached. I'm not fully onboard with Ruby being a companion. I think she is a great character and will be an excellent companion, but the events of this episode show how important and integral she is to her family and the family dynamic. I probably would have felt better with an additional scene with her mother and grandmother encouraging her go have her adventure rather than she just leaving them without a word. 

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2 hours ago, albinerhawk said:

I probably would have felt better with an additional scene with her mother and grandmother encouraging her go have her adventure rather than she just leaving them without a word. 

Oh dear! If they only knew! This daredevil climbs ladders in the sky and gives the business to hissing goblins. and that's before the Doctor.

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That was fun. I really love Ncuti's Doctor. He goes with the flow and is willing to learn new things. Like the vocabulary of rope. I like that 15 is continuing the Doctor being more in touch with his feelings. I mean he still loses focus when he's excited like when the goblins were singing about eating a baby. 

I'm glad mavity is sticking around. 

I also like Ruby, I'll have to get to know her better since right now she's just a list of character traits. The actress has great chemistry with everyone though. I like her family and am glad her grandmother finally got her cup of tea.

For me I don't think Mrs Flood knew it was a Tardis until it disappeared. Isn't it only the Doctor's Tardis that is stuck as a police box. Most fit in better. As for who she is and how she knows I have no idea.

 

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1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I also like Ruby, I'll have to get to know her better since right now she's just a list of character traits. The actress has great chemistry with everyone though. I like her family and am glad her grandmother finally got her cup of tea.

Oh, me too! I was so happy to see her get that tea! 

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I was curious about who sang the Goblin song (which I have been listening to WAY too much). Thanks to Dr. Google, it turns out the singer is a session singer named Christina Rotondo, who didn't know what the song was for/about/how it was going to be used and thought she was being pranked! 

Can you imagine receiving those lyrics with no context?? I wouldn't think it legit either! 

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-goblin-song-singer-exclusive-newsupdate/

Edited by Sailorgirl26
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I wonder if the singing goblin was called Janice/Janis as a tribute to Janis Joplin, the Muppet singer from Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem or if it was just a coincidence. (Don't eat me, goblins!)

I also wonder if they are going to have Ncuti's Doctor have real romantic/sexual adventures. Yes, I know that River was a thing and the Doctor had eyes for Rose. But Ncuti's Doctor seems like the first who actually both makes people randy and himself seems that way.

I wonder if Mrs. Flood is the one who took baby Ruby to the church in the first place and/or Ruby's bio-mom? (time travel shenanigans)

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I agree with the post above that thought the episode felt Disneyfied.  I do love the new Doctor and companion.

Am I the only one that got vibes of the Mos Eisley cantina when the goblins started singing?  "This is not the baby you are looking for."

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I enjoyed both the episode and 15. Ruby seems like a fun new companion but time will tell - no pun intended. I'll be surprised if the question of her bio parents doesn't play into the series and become a big plot point by the finale.

I read that RTD said there would be more fantasy elements introduced to the show and I'm here for it. I was glad to see that the mavity plotline hasn't been abandoned, is it just a running joke now or something more? My take re Mrs Flood not knowing what the Tardis was; she pretended not to know until she did. Could she be Romana?

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6 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

My take re Mrs Flood not knowing what the Tardis was; she pretended not to know until she did. Could she be Romana?

You can always spot the Classic viewers, because whenever there is some mysterious woman in the new series, we all pop out of the woodwork going, "Susan? Romana?? The Rani???"

Mrs Flood didn't seem to know what the TARDIS was until she saw it dematerialise, which suggests that she knows what a TARDIS is, but didn't recognise the police box shape of that particular TARDIS - which probably rules out all three of the above, who would all know the peculiarities of the Doctor's TARDIS in particular.

Plenty of intriguing questions to take us into the new series!

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8 hours ago, Llywela said:

You can always spot the Classic viewers, because whenever there is some mysterious woman in the new series, we all pop out of the woodwork going, "Susan? Romana?? The Rani???"

I'm so glad you said this because as a NuWhovian, I was thinking, "who the hell is Romana?" and knew it had to be someone from Classic Who.

There is definitely a tell between the two genres of fans and you've nailed it! 😅 

Edited by Sailorgirl26
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8 hours ago, Llywela said:

You can always spot the Classic viewers, because whenever there is some mysterious woman in the new series, we all pop out of the woodwork going, "Susan? Romana?? The Rani???"

Mrs Flood didn't seem to know what the TARDIS was until she saw it dematerialise, which suggests that she knows what a TARDIS is, but didn't recognise the police box shape of that particular TARDIS - which probably rules out all three of the above, who would all know the peculiarities of the Doctor's TARDIS in particular.

Plenty of intriguing questions to take us into the new series!

 

46 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I'm so glad you said this because as a NuWhovian, I was thinking, "who the hell is Romana?" and knew it had to be someone from Classic Who.

There is definitely a tell between the two genres of fans and you've nailed it! 😅 

I'm sticking with she knew all along and just pretended not to and could be Romana, hee.

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On 12/29/2023 at 4:14 PM, Sailorgirl26 said:

I'm so glad you said this because as a NuWhovian, I was thinking, "who the hell is Romana?" and knew it had to be someone from Classic Who.

For the record, Romana (played first by Mary Tamm and then Lalla Ward) was a companion of the Fourth Doctor in the late 70s. She was a young, newly qualified Time Lord who was assigned to the Doctor for a mission to track down the Key to Time, who then decided that she enjoyed the freedom of his lifestyle so much that she didn't want to return to Gallifrey once the mission was complete, so went on the lam with him for a while before striking out on her own. It was the closest we've ever come, in either era, to seeing the Doctor travelling with a true equal - all she lacked was experience. She was brilliant, in both incarnations - and, of course, as a Time Lord, she can regenerate - so she is right up there on the list of characters that Classic fans would love to see again, and who we might plausibly meet again, as a key ally of the Doctor who can easily be recast into a new regeneration. The Time War would be the main hurdle to overcome - in the audios she ended up as Lord President of Gallifrey - but a good writer can easily bypass such obstacles.

Romana would have recognised the Doctor's TARDIS much sooner than Mrs Flood did, though, because she travelled in it in its police box form, so one glimpse of a police box so awkwardly parked on the pavement would have tipped her off, she wouldn't have needed to see it move.

(The Rani, who was also mentioned, was another renegade Time Lord, an antagonist of the Seventh Doctor.)

Edited by Llywela
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15 hours ago, Starchild said:

Maybe she's just the Master.

It's possible and if she is, I'd be ok with that. Personally, I just don't think it's probable, I think RTD would want to do something different. But what do I know, maybe she is! I still think she was faking not knowing what the Tardis was from the start. If you opened your front door and saw some bizarre 'contraption' or object randomly parked halfway on/off the pavement fully or partially blocking access/right of way, I think the reaction would be more than merely vocal complaints to the neighbours, you'd call the council or something to report it. All Mrs Flood seemed to want to do was draw maximum attention to it as possible...

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17 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

It's possible and if she is, I'd be ok with that. Personally, I just don't think it's probable, I think RTD would want to do something different. But what do I know, maybe she is! I still think she was faking not knowing what the Tardis was from the start. If you opened your front door and saw some bizarre 'contraption' or object randomly parked halfway on/off the pavement fully or partially blocking access/right of way, I think the reaction would be more than merely vocal complaints to the neighbours, you'd call the council or something to report it. All Mrs Flood seemed to want to do was draw maximum attention to it as possible...

I rewatched with my son over the weekend and I agree, I think her temper tantrum was designed to make Ruby look over at it-she engages with Ruby right away to make SURE Ruby notices.

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I knew that this was going to be a fun Christmas special as soon as we got those clips of the goblins singing their super catchy baby eating song! I love a Christmas special that has very strong Christmas vibes, I am sure that I will keep this on my Christmas rotation for quite awhile. I really like Ncuti's Doctor and I think that he and RTD will be a good match, they seem to have very complimentary energies. RTD enjoys his wackiness and his big concepts and it seems like this doctor will have that sort of madcap fun energy that can keep up with it. He has this joyful youthful sort of vibe that seems to have come from leaving behind a lot of the trauma of his past incarnations, but he still clearly have the necessary mavity for when things get serious. 

I like Ruby alright so far, especially with her family. I cant say she left a huge impression yet, she's nice, brave, and sort of generically cheerful, but the actress is very charming and she has nice chemistry with the Doctor, so I am happy to get to know her better. every time we get a new companion I complain that its yet another modern person from the UK instead of someone from the past, the future, or an alien, or even just someone who isn't British, but I can understand why RTD wants to have a sort of Rose 2.0 for the audience to grab onto as we start this new Who chapter. 

Honestly, I was thinking that Mrs. Flood might be an older River right away. Flood, River, seems like something she would find funny. No idea how that would work, but the rules are already changing so I am sure that RTD could come up with a reason why it could be her. I also thought The Ranni, which I would be happy to see! 

Bring on the new season!

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8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

every time we get a new companion I complain that its yet another modern person from the UK instead of someone from the past, the future, or an alien, or even just someone who isn't British

My understanding is that the companion is the audience avatar for the show, we see the Doctor and all of the adventures through their eyes. Which is a reason why making the companions be super-duper speshul became somewhat irritating for many fans, bc they're meant to represent, and be relatable to, us, aka a contemporary audience. Ergo, someone from the past, the future, or an alien would inhibit that instant relatability. As for being British, well, it is a British show predominantly made for a British audience, so the companion being British connects to the relatability thing too.

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2 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

My understanding is that the companion is the audience avatar for the show, we see the Doctor and all of the adventures through their eyes. Which is a reason why making the companions be super-duper speshul became somewhat irritating for many fans, bc they're meant to represent, and be relatable to, us, aka a contemporary audience. Ergo, someone from the past, the future, or an alien would inhibit that instant relatability. As for being British, well, it is a British show predominantly made for a British audience, so the companion being British connects to the relatability thing too.

There were plenty of companions in the Classic series who weren't contemporary humans. There were times when there were no contemporary humans in the TARDIS at all. We had companions from the past, companions from the future, companions from other planets, and audiences managed to relate to them all just fine - some of them rank among the most popular companions ever, in fact. This belief that the companion must always be a contemporary human in order to be relatable is very much a New Who thing. What matters is who the character is and how they are written. Audiences are capable of relating to just about any fictional character, if they are written right.

As for them usually (but not always) being British, or at least played by British actors, yes, that is because it is a British show. Just as US sci fi shows almost always have primarily American casts. That's just how the industry works. A show made in a particular country will always primarily employ actors from that country, even if the show is set in space, that's just logistics. There have been exceptions on Doctor Who, though. Captain Jack, for one. The 80s companion Peri was another - the actress was British but the character was American.

My biggest bugbear, mind, is that the show has been made in Wales for almost two decades at this point, yet has never had a Welsh regular character - even Welsh guest characters have been vanishingly rare.

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I don't really care that much, but early 20 something women as companions aren't really relatable for me. I'm not the target demo too. I thought Ruby was fine though. The only character trait that turns me off is Mary Sue. 

They could add a second companion that's not contemporary too. We've had multiple companions as recently as Thirteen. 

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