S45.E11: This Game Rips Your Heart Out

[Chicago Redshirt]

The above list doesn't include people who are or were law students. For instance, Kane in a recent year was a law student.

And Cochran who won the whole thing attended Harvard Law. I just found out through googling that he is a writer on Star Trek: Lower Decks, which is awesome and good for him!

[phlebas]

These episodes have been fun, but none of these guys are all-stars.  They are all more or less the same level of mediocre. Maybe that's the key -- if a Natalie Anderson was on this season, they would be carving a statue of her by now, content that they each have a final two pact with her.

Maybe not having any game studs is making this fun?

[Carey]

6 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Maybe not having any game studs is making this fun?

Maybe Bruce being gone made this game fun again.  Just a correction according to yours truly

[bankerchick]

2 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

Austin less so, because I find his confessionals snooze-worthy, and don’t know why he hasn’t been targeted.

 

Because Dee calls all the shots, so much so that she can now announce that Austin is her #1, and still have people vote the way she wants.

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I do really wish that they had Austin or Julie or someone explain why

a) Austin didn't repossess the idol he gave Julie immediately after it turned out she didn't need it. I don't think I remember anyone just giving an idol to someone and not asking for it back almost immediately.

b) Why Austin gave her the "better" idol (in that it  has power for an extra tribal)

Anybody have any ideas?

a) He said he was hoping she'd give it back. The fact he just hoped and didn't ask suggests he is quite passive, and the fact Dee is dominating him and puppeteering him and he is enthralled with her suggests he is malleable and likes to please, and asking might have displeased Julie (and posssibly Dee), and he didn't want to rock the boat in his alliance.

b) I have read elsewhere the amulet idol was definitely not transferrable.

[Carey]

I guess it is fair enough that Austin would rather not put a target on his back.  At the same time, it is fair enough to come to the conclusion that I think Austin isn't a very good player.

If Dee actually has that control, I can't hate it.  That's because it's up to everyone else to do something about it.  If you don't so be it.  In terms of winning the game or the final chance at it, those have consequences.

Following up on what phlebas said about this season, I agree that there's no one there that's outstanding as in past seasons.  That is a shame since they have the most benefit from past seasons to adapt to success on Survivor.  OTOH, all the twists sort of offsets their moves.  Though to an extent

[Chicago Redshirt]

19 minutes ago, violet and green said:

a) He said he was hoping she'd give it back. The fact he just hoped and didn't ask suggests he is quite passive, and the fact Dee is dominating him and puppeteering him and he is enthralled with her suggests he is malleable and likes to please, and asking might have displeased Julie (and posssibly Dee), and he didn't want to rock the boat in his alliance.

b) I have read elsewhere the amulet idol was definitely not transferrable.

Thanks.

I suppose Austin should familiarize himself with the famous quote from Frederick Douglass, "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

I almost get that asking right before you're planning to boot someone off is a little much, but in the two-three days (not sure how many) since he loaned it, to have literally never said, OK you're safe, now give it back...?

That's some not good game play right there.

[watch2much]

what was interesting to me was that Austin felt he had to tell Dee about the vote or she would "never trust him again" and it would hurt the relationship.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dee tell Julie, without telling Austin, and even said she had to vote for Julie so the others wouldn't know, to keep up the deception? so it seems she has less concern about an eventual relationship. 

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, watch2much said:

so it seems she has less concern about an eventual relationship. 

And good for her!

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Carey said:

Upon seeing the list Chicago Redshirt posted, it's time to have a elusive Attorney Survivor season

Apparently former Survivor contestant Tyson joked that they should have an all-attorney season where all the contestants pretend to not be attorneys. :)

[Haleth]

13 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

And good for her!

Eye on the prize!

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 minutes ago, watch2much said:

what was interesting to me was that Austin felt he had to tell Dee about the vote or she would "never trust him again" and it would hurt the relationship.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dee tell Julie, without telling Austin, and even said she had to vote for Julie so the others wouldn't know, to keep up the deception? so it seems she has less concern about an eventual relationship. 

I was under the assumption that when Austin told Dee he must have figured that there was a possibility that Dee would tell Julie. He might have hoped that she wouldn't but I just can't conceive of Austin being so dumb that he didn't think it was at least some possibility.

I even think in the conversation that was shown, his attitude was "Do what you have to do with this info."

If Austin (and the others, but particularly Austin) don't piece together that it was Dee who told Julie, then I don't know what to say.

It's obvious that Dee and Julie are tight. It's obvious Drew and Emily didn't tell her. I can't think of any reason why Katurah or Jake would have told her. The only reasonable culprits would be Austin and Dee.

There's the notion that Julie's Spidey-sense was tingling and she just spontaneously played the idol, I suppose. But I can't imagine Austin not revealing that he told Dee when questioned by Drew.

[PaperTree]

3 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

This is my first time ever watching this show; I give zero fucks who wins.  If I watch in the future, hopefully there'll be someone I find both appealing and worthy this late in the game.

Welcome to Crazyland!  I've seen almost every episode and this forum is a great place to play.

[bankerchick]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But I can't imagine Austin not revealing that he told Dee when questioned by Drew.

I could be wrong but I'm sure he did tell Drew?

[JenMcSnark]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I WAS rooting for Austin until he said he was fine to lose if it meant Dee won, and when he sold out the plan to Dee because "he felt bad". The moment he showed his head isn't in the game, it solidified that he's just too bad of a player for me to want to see win.

To be fair, they didn't know Julie had an idol; only the Reba 4 knew.

ETA: Unless I'm wrong about that. I know Drew/Austin emphasized it has to be a total blindside, but I didn't think it was because everyone knew about the idol.

Totally agree about Austin.  I liked him and am definitely down for some eye candy doing well but by the end of the episode I really wanted Julie to write his name down!

And I do blame Austin (doubly) and Drew for not emphasizing that Julie had an idol and they should split the vote or something.  Those two knew she had an idol and that there was a possibility that she might play it so they were complete idiots. 

[susannot]

Thanks for the list Chicago Redshirt!

Has anyone noticed the glaring omission on the list of Survivor lawyers?  No Female lawyer has ever won Survivor.  It's the same on AU Survivor where Sharn, a barrister, got to the final 2 twice but did not win.

I want to see Julie or Katurah break the female survivor lawyer curse!

 

(Full disclosure, retired female lawyer here.)

 

 

[North of Eden]

Well, my interest in the rest of the game just dropped by 95%. I really wanted to see Emily in a final three mix. I was really rooting for her but her mistakes kept multiplying with taking the credit for Bruce and not even trying the puzzle.

And what kind of dummy is  Drew to think Austin would keep his mouth shut? He's a young man thinking with his anatomy and now he's blown up several games in the process.

At this point, the only thing I care about is that neither nasty, smug ol' Julie or gooney Drew wins.

And lastly, I would agree with anyone who thinks Katurah's Cult Leader must have somehow resembled or acted like Bruce to ignite her inexplicable, seething hatred for him.

[srhall79]

The list of lawyer contestants left off Nick Wilson, who successfully argued his case in David v. Goliath. 

I'm sad to see Emily go, but, she lasted 10 episodes longer than expected. Bragging about the Bruce vote was the wrong move. Hell, the Bruce vote was the wrong move. If she had used her powers of persuasion, "They're all against you. I've got to vote against you too, because if you don't believe me I'm not blowing up my game. But, you play your idol, you write down Julie's name, we break the Reba 4 and take control." Hindsight, yes, but Emily already got from Drew and Austin, "You're our favorite... after Dee and Julie."

I'm also annoyed as we seem to be in one of those seasons where people just roll over. Jake tried to make some moves, but I think he needed to try earlier. Now that Bruce is voted off, Katurah can get back to playing for 5th.

The Reba 4 seem like the embodiment of when Jeff says "You have a 1 in 4 shot at a million dollars" because I'm not seeing any of them really rising above the others. It's going to be hard for any of them to really point out "this was _my_ outsmarting people" instead of "this was _our_ outsmarting people." I guess Julie is "nice" but I don't know I want to vote for someone because "she felt bad each time she voted us off." Maybe Dee gets points for "I have Austin so wrapped around my finger that he screw up his chance for a big move." 

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, srhall79 said:

The list of lawyer contestants left off Nick Wilson, who successfully argued his case in David v. Goliath. 

I'm sad to see Emily go, but, she lasted 10 episodes longer than expected. Bragging about the Bruce vote was the wrong move. Hell, the Bruce vote was the wrong move. If she had used her powers of persuasion, "They're all against you. I've got to vote against you too, because if you don't believe me I'm not blowing up my game. But, you play your idol, you write down Julie's name, we break the Reba 4 and take control." Hindsight, yes, but Emily already got from Drew and Austin, "You're our favorite... after Dee and Julie."

I'm also annoyed as we seem to be in one of those seasons where people just roll over. Jake tried to make some moves, but I think he needed to try earlier. Now that Bruce is voted off, Katurah can get back to playing for 5th.

The Reba 4 seem like the embodiment of when Jeff says "You have a 1 in 4 shot at a million dollars" because I'm not seeing any of them really rising above the others. It's going to be hard for any of them to really point out "this was _my_ outsmarting people" instead of "this was _our_ outsmarting people." I guess Julie is "nice" but I don't know I want to vote for someone because "she felt bad each time she voted us off." Maybe Dee gets points for "I have Austin so wrapped around my finger that he screw up his chance for a big move." 

Thanks for the correction the lawyer who got there.

Peachy seems to have given up "guaranteed a one in X shot at a million dollars" along with "Come on in, guys!" Which makes me happy because it wasn't true. Each remaining player simply does not have equal odds of winning. It is just not true to think that Dee and Jake have the same odds of winning. A big pet peeve of mine, and I don't think he's said it for the last couple of seasons or i think I would have remembered being triggered by it. 

That said, the Reba 4 probably have some ways to distinguish themselves from each other when it gets down to it. Keeping in mind that there still are key developments in the game to happen, and someone in the four is not making it to the FTC. It's possible that two of the four aren't making it, because either Katurah or Jake could get brought along as a goat or one of them could go on an immunity run/find a key idol or advantage/wake up and actually convince members of the Reba 4 to break up the band. Hell, it's even conceivable (though doubtful) that one of the Reba 4 gets the idea to try to bring along BOTH Katurah and Jake knowing that then they could argue a clearer choice between them as the one who was behind the dominant alliance and two people who have (thus far) done nothing of note. 

Will Bruce's pocket idol or Julie/Austin's idol be reseeded and found? Maybe.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[Kelda Feegle]

At this point I just want to see Jake stumble his way to winning. 

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

At this point I just want to see Jake stumble his way to winning. 

Yeah, I think his chances of making it to the final three are slim to none, but on the off chance he does make it there, you can never underestimate the bitterness of the jury or an effective sob story that might sway them. 

[fishcakes]

8 hours ago, srhall79 said:

The list of lawyer contestants left off Nick Wilson, who successfully argued his case in David v. Goliath.

Also Yul Kwon, Yale Law grad, winner of Cook Islands, all-around hot nerd.

Jeff: Drew is through the obstacle course! Now he has to knock down the blocks!

Drew:

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

36 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Also Yul Kwon, Yale Law grad, winner of Cook Islands, all-around hot nerd.

Wow, that's a pretty big omission.

So of lawyers/law students/ex-lawyers who made it to a final tribal council, there's been three winners in Yul, Nick and Cochran, and it might be that they've batted 1000.  

So circling back, I think that illustrates it's possibly a good idea to keep the info that you're a lawyer hidden.

I remember a couple seasons back there was a dude who hid the fact that he was a salesman. And I'm like, Yep, good move. Except his personality so screamed all the negative stereotypes of a used car salesman any way that it probably didn't make much of difference.

[fishcakes]

4 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So of lawyers/law students/ex-lawyers who made it to a final tribal council, there's been three winners in Yul, Nick and Cochran, and it might be that they've batted 1000. 

I just noticed that Brad Culpepper was omitted too, and he was F3 in Game Changers but lost to Sarah Lacina. Of course, he has a reputation for being a terrible lawyer, so no surprise there.

For clients who like a little porn music with their representation, I guess.

[millennium]

I don't understand why Julie is so beloved.  She strikes me as entitled, vindictive and more than a little full of herself.

Austin should have been voted out.   He deserves it for being stupid.  Stupid for getting involved with Dee in the first place, stupid for telling her about the plan to oust Julie.  In the end, which is easier to fix?  Your girlfriend being angry with you or getting voted off Survivor?

[azshadowwalker]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:11 PM, Lantern7 said:

 

Seriously, why didn't we get Katurah's origins before tonight? She might have gotten more sympathy rather being "The One That Really Wanted Bruce Gone."

I always had sympathy for Katurah. I mean, they showed how pushy, condescending and controlling Bruce could be on a regular basis. Other people even mentioned it on occasion. It was more odd to me that some viewers didn't see it. There was never any doubt in my mind that Katurah had him pegged from the start or why she would hate to be around someone like that. Her story tells us even more about why a controlling man might be uncomfortable or even frightening for her, but no woman with a lick of sense is comfortable with that shit.

[Diana Berry]

Cute couple and their shiny teeth lives to see another day.

The Rob and Amber foreshadowing editing has to be in there for a reason.  Here is hoping Austin proposes to Dee with a ring made out of seaweed. 

[Scatterbrained]

THIS was the week for Jake’s vote heist plan!!!  

[iMonrey]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:28 PM, millennium said:

I don't understand why Julie is so beloved.  She strikes me as entitled, vindictive and more than a little full of herself.

She mostly seems that way in her talking head segments though, which the other players don't see. Around camp she is probably viewed as the mama bear type. 

I was struck by her sense of entitlement very early on, long before she had any right to be smug about being in a power alliance/position. So yeah, I'm not really rooting for her either. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Around camp she is probably viewed as the mama bear type. 

Yes.  It always irritates me how quick the young ones are to look at any woman over 30 as the "mama."  They don't often call the older men Daddy but it wouldn't matter if the woman was a green beret or a senator, she's seen as their mommy.

So I  thought they were dismissing her as any sort of threat, but now they've decided she's a shoe in to win if she makes the finals, -- not because she's been strategic and done well in the challenges, but because "everyone loves her." SMH.

[Cotypubby]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:42 PM, North of Eden said:

acted like Bruce to ignite her inexplicable, seething hatred for him.

What's inexplicable to me is how some viewers just don't seem to see how condescending and rude Bruce is, especially towards the women. Everyone was thrilled when he was gone, it wasn't just Katurah that wanted him out.

[SummerDreams]

I still don't understand why Julie who knew her alliance was turning on her voted Emily out rather than one of her allies who betrayed her. In what universe does this make sense?

[Lantern7]

Erik's take on the episode, titled "Schooled By Mama J."

Here's the comic on his Instagram. From the comments, you can see that Julie loved it.

[rr2911]

Can anyone be that stupid as to lend an idol to someone and not ask for it back ASAP?  That's why I wonder if the producers have some input here.  Maybe they tell Austin to not ask for it back so it can create drama.  Austin telling Dee about Julie's name being on the chopping block could be another producer's hand in this.  You never, never, never, ever, ever tell anyone you have an idol and triple the never's and ever's hand someone your idol.  That's just common sense!

I was leaning Katurah until her backstory "came out".

I was an Emily fan.  Now I will be pulling for Jake.

Julie should be on everyone's radar, even Dee's. 

[astrohip]

1 hour ago, rr2911 said:

That's why I wonder if the producers have some input here.  Maybe they tell Austin to not ask for it back so it can create drama.  Austin telling Dee about Julie's name being on the chopping block could be another producer's hand in this. 

No. Absolutely not. No crew member of any kind--producer, camera person, Jeff, etc--ever has any input into anything the cast does, related to the show. That would be manipulation, which is against the rules for shows that offer prizes, and would lead to the immediate end of the golden goose that is Survivor.

No. Full stop.

[AEJ79]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:34 PM, CraftyHazel said:

I wanted her to vote for Dee.  How can no one see that she is in charge?

How did no one think to split the votes?!? Emily and pretty much anyone else could have thrown 2 votes on Dee and completely blindsided her. Come on guys! 

[rr2911]

18 hours ago, astrohip said:

No. Absolutely not. No crew member of any kind--producer, camera person, Jeff, etc--ever has any input into anything the cast does, related to the show. That would be manipulation, which is against the rules for shows that offer prizes, and would lead to the immediate end of the golden goose that is Survivor.

No. Full stop.

It's a television show with writers, editors, directors and producers!  Survivor is not only a tv show it's a reality show.  Reality shows are known for creating drama for the viewers.  Unless you work for this show, you and the rest of us don't know for sure.  I believe only Maryanne (sp) from a couple of seasons ago, never told anyone that she had an idol.  

[Nashville]

22 hours ago, astrohip said:

No. Absolutely not. No crew member of any kind--producer, camera person, Jeff, etc--ever has any input into anything the cast does, related to the show. That would be manipulation, which is against the rules for shows that offer prizes, and would lead to the immediate end of the golden goose that is Survivor.

No. Full stop.

You’re assuming reality shows such as Survivor are bound by the same laws and regulations as game shows; they are not. “Reality shows” (which is little more than a marketing term) are considered entertainment shows, not game shows.  Two sets of regulations apply to game shows:

1. 47 CFR § 73.1216 (Licensee-conducted contests) addresses its applicability strictly to shows in which participants are drawn from the pool of the “general public”, such as radio call-in contests.  

2. 47 U.S. Code § 509 (Prohibited practices in contests of knowledge, skill, or chance) does have application to shows not open to general public participation - but (a) addresses only individual contests/comps within the context of a show, and (b) applies solely to those contests in which “any money or any other thing of value is offered as a prize”.

• #1 does not apply to shows like Survivor, Big Brother, etc. because participants must submit an application, be vetted by Production, sign contracts, etc. prior to being selected for participation; immediate participation is not available to the general public.
• #2 would apply only if cash prizes were being awarded for wins in individual comps.