S17.E04: Goodbye Single Life, Hello Marriage

[Emma Snyder]

Quote

The couples return to their honeymoon suites; a miscommunication leaves one bride feeling insecure; a frustrated bride confronts her husband who is left with more questions than answers; a shocking revelation blindsides the couples.

Airs Wednesday November 8th at 8:00PM EST.

[Elizzikra]

I love, LOVE Becca’s pajamas! I just wish the pants were long and not short - I much prefer long pajama pants even in warmer weather.

[LennieBriscoe]

I don't  recognize the above episode description compared to what I just watched! 

[NowVoyager]

Cameron is coming across as really standoffish. Maybe some of it is cultural or his sense of humor? Anyway, I don't like it. Walking ahead of Clare & not offering her assistance with her luggage wasn't cool or romantic. Bruh, if you are wanting physical touch later, you have to plant the seeds. The "Reservation" comment was hella cringey. And his response to Orion was worse. I guess he's just socially awkward.

Rebecca telling Austin about her health issues over breakfast.... I was like: Damn, girl. Can he chew & swallow his food & wake up in peace? Of course she needed to tell him. I just think her timing & delivery was a bit off. Fortunately, he reacted in a very loving & sincere way. I teared up watching her friends talk about her.

Lauren wearing a hair bonnet on the first night of her honeymoon!? She was doing the most. Just to be clear, I am also a Black woman. I just thought she could have put her hair up (us coily/curly girls call it a pineapple; a loose top knot) & slept on a satin pillowcase & called it a day. I did think it was cute that she had Orion try on one & he was so receptive to it.

[JenE4]

6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I don't  recognize the above episode description compared to what I just watched! 

 

18 hours ago, Emma Snyder said:

Airs Wednesday November 8th at 8:00PM EST.

Okay. I’ll try:

The couples return to their honeymoon suites (return is an odd word, but they go to the hotel room on their honeymoon night); a miscommunication leaves one bride feeling insecure (Clare thinks Cameron isn’t attracted to her and worries he’s not expressive); a frustrated bride confronts her husband who is left with more questions than answers (this is Clare and Cameron again; she’s really confrontational about that whole suitcase thing and a bunch of other stuff she made up in her mind; he’s just confused but trying to say he’ll be better); a shocking revelation blindsides the couples (Michael being left at the alter.)

[LennieBriscoe]

Thank you, JenE4! I missed that entire C-C suitcase contre-temps; must've  dozed off! 😊

[Lindz]

Pretty disturbing everyone didn't wear seatbelts. What is wrong with them?!!! Did they forget car accidents exist or think they're immune cuz they're passengers?? So reckless. It's ridiculous.

[Lindz]

That bonnet moment cracked me up!!! Orion looked hilarious! 🤣🤣

[Lindz]

Is Lauren missing a side tooth???!!!! 🤔🧐😬Thought I noticed it once last episode, but it's in the video they use to introduce them.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Lindz

[Lindz]

Lotta unbuttoning! Austin's the first husband that needed a tool, huh? Cam's the first who got stopped. What he said was probably a turn off. Interesting that once Lauren was unbuttoned, she had to turn around & unwrap Orion's hair. Interesting first! His comment about her PJs was basic, kinda boring. Awww. He asked for a kiss goodnight, while Brennan & Austin don't have to. 🤣 Brennan's "compliment" was pretty good. Cam totally failed. Didn't show any care or consideration or desire to connect. Because of "lack of sexual energy"???!! So disappointing. He said such nice things last episode. WHAT HAPPENED??!! 🤨

Edited November 9, 2023 by Lindz

[Lindz]

L: Where's your wife?

M: Oh. We'll get to that. 

One second later... 

L: What's going on?

HA!!! Ya. Get to it NOW!!! Nothing else to talk about!!! His runaway bride was kinda like a Love is Blind crossover. Up til that, I didn't think about someone saying no like on LIB. Hey, she didn't wait til the officiant asked if she said, "I do." .... I can't with that holey sweater!!!

Edited November 9, 2023 by Lindz

[Lindz]

WHAT are Cam & Clare doing??!!! They're so distant!!! So much for sharing feelings!! All talk & no action, huh? & For her to know he's not expressive like that & not try to lead in that area makes no sense. She doesn't know if he's attracted to her & doesn't ask him??? 🤨 COME ON!!! I really want to know what Cam was thinking on the wedding night. Did he really withdraw because she didn't respond the way he hoped to his remark? Just. Bizarre. Like. Weirdest wedding night, in the suite, no less. Has anyone just gone to sleep like that??? 😬 So disappointed in the way she talked about her luggage. It isn't "common knowledge" to offer to help someone with their bags & keeping score of him not helping & leaving her in the airport? No. No. No. Totally wrong approach. She should really know better. & why is he responding with one word??? Not good!!! I wonder if she requested those things. I definitely would've! Someone who's open & forthcoming with their thoughts & offers to help are definitely quality traits. Just. WHY is he being so stand-offish??? How does he think they'll get closer that way? WTF IS HE THINKING???

 

[Jeanne222]

I liked Onion and his bride.  They seem comfortable together.  Partners.  I'll be sad if this one doesn't work out.

Bicycle guy is rude then bewildered.  Maybe that's why other women didn't stay.  Not sure about her.  Does she expect too much or is he just rude?

Surgery girl.  Hum.  I do wonder if he really understands what she faces every day.  What their future might be like.

Never been in a relationship girl seems all in on her handsome husband and him the same.

[Lindz]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Surgery girl.  Hum.  I do wonder if he really understands what she faces every day.  What their future might be like.

Well. She kept it pretty vague and he didn't follow-up, it was just dropped on him out of nowhere. Didn't seem like she really thought it out & just wanted to let him know to see if he'd accept it & not to tell him how it'd affect their lives. She downplayed it, so he thought it was nothing til her friends said something.

[Lindz]

So A&B seem very close & comfortable & B&E are somewhat comfortable around each other. O&L seemed super close on the bus ride, he might still be asking for kisses though. 🤷‍♀️ C&C are so distant & uncomfortable. 😬

[Jeanne222]

6 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Well. She kept it pretty vague and he didn't follow-up, it was just dropped on him out of nowhere. Didn't seem like she really thought it out & just wanted to let him know to see if he'd accept it & not to tell him how it'd affect their lives. She downplayed it, so he thought it was nothing til her friends said something.

Yes and I just can't believe he walked into all this without forewarning.

She's lovely but an unknown future.  What if he married mostly for a partner and a family.

I have tender feelings for both of them but many questions for the experts!

[Katie111]

Clare is (supposedly) a therapist.  I would think she would be able to talk to her husband, especialy since she keeps saying how much her love language is through talking.  She came across as a nag when they got to the hotel room.  If you want help, just ask for it.  Not sure if he just has a dry sense of humor or if he really just isn't into her.  She did say on the aftershow that he had told her he had asked for someone slim and tall (implying that she wasn't slim) and I think that just set the tone from there.  I also found it weird in the aftershow when she said how little he packed for the honeymoon (like 3 shirts for a week).  I don't like her family at all.  Her sisters act like they are the greatest people ever and he should be bowing down to them.  I think being quadruplets has made them think very highly of themselves as I'm sure they always got lots of attention. 

I actually like the rest of the couples and think they all might have a (slight) chance.  

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Did they forget car accidents exist or think they're immune cuz they're passengers??

I think they were on a bus and those don't usually have seatbelts. 

[Meanomom]

2 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Clare is (supposedly) a therapist.  I would think she would be able to talk to her husband, especialy since she keeps saying how much her love language is through talking.  She came across as a nag when they got to the hotel room.  If you want help, just ask for it.  Not sure if he just has a dry sense of humor or if he really just isn't into her.  She did say on the aftershow that he had told her he had asked for someone slim and tall (implying that she wasn't slim) and I think that just set the tone from there.  I also found it weird in the aftershow when she said how little he packed for the honeymoon (like 3 shirts for a week).  I don't like her family at all.  Her sisters act like they are the greatest people ever and he should be bowing down to them.  I think being quadruplets has made them think very highly of themselves as I'm sure they always got lots of attention. 

I actually like the rest of the couples and think they all might have a (slight) chance.  

Clare is a therapist and needs one herself. (most go into the field because they need the therapy themselves, imo)

Cameron has a dry sense of humor and I think there was more to the story than what was shown on camera.  She has to choose between being fully independent and wanting chivilry(?) from her husband.  sorry ladies, you can't have both.  Cameron told her family straight on that he and Clare will be doing a dance because their styles are different and he wasn't wrong.  They may need a visit from the experts before they get too lost down the road.  I understand where Cameron is coming from.

[Crashcourse]

I don't see any of these couples looking like they're that interested in each other.  Sure, they're polite, but that's about it.

[lh25]

4 hours ago, Lindz said:

She downplayed it, so he thought it was nothing til her friends said something.

She did, but it bothered me that her friends brought it up, "Did she tell you about her health issues?"  What if she hadn't yet?  I didn't think it was their place to bring up the topic.

[Rightside]

Does anyone think Clare reminds them of Krysten of Krysten and Mitch San Diego season?

Also, I'm thinking Austin and Clare would have been a better match. Maybe? Who knows, I'm fast forwarding so much!!!

[seacliffsal]

Cameron and Clair are already in trouble.  Neither one of them is a good communicator and I think that, once again, we can see why they turned to this show to find a spouse.  

Everyone else still seems to be on their good behavior, but maybe they will all start falling apart on the honeymoon.  I still don't think they should have matched Becca-too many medical issues for this situation (marrying a stranger).  I really like her, but think it's too much to put on a stranger (which the show keeps reminding us that these people married strangers).

[Crashcourse]

While I blame the "experts" for matching Becca with a stranger, I also blame her for wanting to be married to a stranger, knowing she had medical issues.  She could have dated "normally" until she found someone who got to know and love her in spite of her condition.  

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

While I blame the "experts" for matching Becca with a stranger, I also blame her for wanting to be married to a stranger, knowing she had medical issues.  She could have dated "normally" until she found someone who got to know and love her in spite of her condition.  

The "experts" can hardly be "blame[d]" for adhering to, you know,THE ACTUAL POINT OF THE SHOW [HINT: "Married At First Sight"]! OF COURSE they matched Becca with a stranger!

Re: Airport, C&C: Just re-watched. Yes, Cameron was maybe a couple paces ahead of Clare, but those behind them weren't exactly in lockstep. When C&C passed through the doorway, they were essentially side by side. Then we see more in Clare's relating the moment while they are in the hotel room.

She thinks Cameron is insensitive and ungentlemanly (I can see this, as he is not behaving as a besotted groom at all). He thinks Clare can look after herself. They both might be right. 

He is taken aback by her "we're  not romantic yet, right?" So he saves face and agrees. 

I can appreciate Cameron's droll sense of humor, but when your new bride thinks you're being sarcastic (or you really are) instead of truly complimentary, you need to switch gears, Bike Boy. 

But I also find Clare extremely inarticulate, in the sense of saying seemingly contradictory things interspersed with "like" and "you know what I mean?" What did she find so difficult about saying straight out (she eventually gets close), "I need to be shown a man cares for me before I can feel comfortable with getting physical." Or, more succinctly, "Romance before sex, Husband." 

Good luck getting your luggage and your relationship back on track. 

P.S. About the cute plush kiwi gift: Clare is an adult. That pre-wedding gift ought to have had a nice piece of jewelry attached!

Edited November 10, 2023 by LennieBriscoe

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Clare is a therapist and needs one herself. (most go into the field because they need the therapy themselves, imo)

That's a sweeping generalization. I am a social worker though I never worked as a therapist. Most of the therapists I know chose the career for many reasons - the need for therapy for oneself was not usually among them.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

The "experts" can hardly be "blame[d]" for adhering to, you know,THE ACTUAL POINT OF THE SHOW [HINT: "Married At First Sight"]! OF COURSE they matched Becca with a stranger!

My point regarding the "experts" was matching her with a stranger.  I'm assuming they knew she had medical issues.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Crashcourse

[APK]

I believe Cameron and Clare will get a divorce. I believed Cameron will want to move back to New Zealand sooner or later and Clare will balk at the idea of living in a foreign country.

[seacliffsal]

I think Claire is someone who expects other people to read her mind or just know what she wants.  She stated how independent and strong she is, yet just expected Cameron to know to take her suitcase.  I have known so many people who have expected me to 'know' what they wanted and then got mad at me because I didn't know.  I am so not a mind reader, and kind of resent it when those people have gotten mad at me.  Oh, and Claire, whenever you tell someone 'everyone knows...' you are immediately implying something negative about that person-so if you want to develop apositive relationship with someone, don't tell them that as you are criticizing them. 

[LennieBriscoe]

12 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

My point regarding the "experts" was matching her with a stranger.  I'm assuming they knew she had medical issues.

"Grammar Nazis 'R' Us."  😉 😁 Perhaps they should  have eliminated her from the get-go. I think before Clare, though, Michael should have been a non-starter, and I'm not so sure about Orion, either! 

[Vanderboom]

It's been a long time since we've gotten to episode 4 of the season and I don't actively hate anyone yet. I'm currently rooting for Becca/Austin and Lauren/Orion, but that might be because the show is giving them a lot of airtime and positive edits.

[Real4real]

Cameron seems really nervous and has closed down.  She just keeps coming at him with how he is failing.  Not a great start.  I wonder if some of his social awkwardness and missteps are from cultural differences.

I think Becca dropped her heath issues on Austin when she did because she knew her friends would bring it up and she wanted him to hear it from her.  I agree with others though, it was not a good idea to cast her and just hope/expect that her stranger husband would be OK with it.

[Jeanne222]

4 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I think Claire is someone who expects other people to read her mind or just know what she wants.  She stated how independent and strong she is, yet just expected Cameron to know to take her suitcase.  I have known so many people who have expected me to 'know' what they wanted and then got mad at me because I didn't know.  I am so not a mind reader, and kind of resent it when those people have gotten mad at me.  Oh, and Claire, whenever you tell someone 'everyone knows...' you are immediately implying something negative about that person-so if you want to develop apositive relationship with someone, don't tell them that as you are criticizing them. 

I think Clare was expecting at the minimum Cameron to walk behind or with her and not rush ahead of her.  Not sure with today's young men if they still open the door for their ladies and help with heavier luggage when traveling.

Cameron failed miserably at everything!

I don't think Cameron will want to return to New Zealand.  I think he'll want to return to being single and riding his bike!  

He doesn't appear to have any idea of how to treat a wife, young woman!  He's still just a boy!

[Empress1]

17 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I can appreciate Cameron's droll sense of humor, but when your new bride thinks you're being sarcastic (or you really are) instead of truly complimentary, you need to switch gears, Bike Boy. 

I haven’t seen the episode yet but as someone with a sarcastic sense of humor, I find I do have to pull it back early on when getting to know someone, particularly since a lot of communication is through text and you lose a lot of nuance. Banter back and forth is a way in which I show and receive affection, but I’ve also been in situations in which the person I was talking to didn’t realize I was joking. I remember a text conversation with an ex and I thought we were being playful and he thought we were arguing - that sinking feeling in my stomach when I realized he didn’t know I was teasing wasn’t a good feeling. (We made up.) That kind of banter takes intimacy, which takes time to build. None of these couples have that yet, so I think they’re better off playing it straight.

[Retired at last]

I also would have thought that Cameron would have helped Clare (or ask if she needed help) with her suitcase. But, it looked like everyone was rolling their own luggage, and she HAD expressed how independent she was. And it seems as if they are both attracted to each other, but neither of them wants to say it first. I am hopeful that once they are on their honeymoon and are more relaxed, communication will get easier. They have already established that she needs to be shown affection with words and he needs to express affection with action, so they are going to have to meet in the middle. Also, considering their height difference, he is going to have to slow down considerably if he wants to walk with her. 

[Crashcourse]

While it's hard on Clare's neck looking up at Cameron, I think he wasn't expecting someone short (I read a post that he wanted a tall, slim woman), so I think it's going to take a while for him to get used to her height--that is, if they stay together.  So, I can believe that he was just walking along and not realizing that she wasn't keeping up with him.

[Empress1]

33 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Also, considering their height difference, he is going to have to slow down considerably if he wants to walk with her. 

I walk really fast, and adjusting my gait for someone who walks slower is a challenge. I can certainly do it, but I’ve been called on it before. It may take Cameron a minute to realize that he has to slow down.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Empress1

[suzeecat]

The "brunch with family" episodes are always my least favorite of the season.  It all just feels like scripted Q&A job interviews. 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 11/9/2023 at 10:54 AM, Jeanne222 said:

I liked Onion and his bride.  They seem comfortable together.  Partners.  I'll be sad if this one doesn't work out.

I like them, but dang, they speak so precisely and carefully, as though every.single.word has been thought out and analyzed before saying it. I wonder if they can be spontaneous, light, and playful in conversation. 

On 11/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, Katie111 said:

I also found it weird in the aftershow when she said how little he packed for the honeymoon (like 3 shirts for a week).  

Here's what I found weird from the aftershow...Clare said that underneath that bathrobe that Cameron slept in (which was weird enough), he had on a shirt and shorts!

On 11/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, Katie111 said:

Clare is (supposedly) a therapist.  I would think she would be able to talk to her husband, especialy since she keeps saying how much her love language is through talking.

Her repeated communication mistakes, especially for being with someone that she is just getting to know, are detrimental to their relationship and certainly not an endorsement of her therapist abilities!

On 11/9/2023 at 8:04 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

He is taken aback by her "we're  not romantic yet, right?" So he saves face and agrees. 

I actually found this to be her biggest mistake, because of the incredible amount of disastrous assumptions that it introduced and that kept building on each other.  First, Clare assumed that Cameron was not feeling her in a romantic way. So rather than actually ask him about it so she could gather useful and accurate information, she phrased it as a statement that was essentially speaking for him and presenting it as a fact.  Then he assumed that she was speaking about herself, that she wasn't feeling anything romantic, so rather than verify if that was right or speak up if he actually was feeling romantic, he went along with the statement and her assumption. Then when he went along with it, she assumed that it meant he was in agreement. This left neither of them accurately represented, and thinking incorrect things about the other person, which all could have been avoided by simply asking questions (like Becca and Austin did).

On 11/9/2023 at 8:04 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

But I also find Clare extremely inarticulate, in the sense of saying seemingly contradictory things interspersed with "like" and "you know what I mean?" What did she find so difficult about saying straight out (she eventually gets close), "I need to be shown a man cares for me before I can feel comfortable with getting physical." Or, more succinctly, "Romance before sex, Husband." 

The thing I was so taken aback by, was I believe the next morning, and Cameron said something about how much he likes to cuddle, and Clare completely said nothing, after he hadn't even come close to cuddling. She should have used that as a launching point for a non-nagging, exploratory question to help both of them discuss that. It seems like each of them say these blanket statements, and then there is no probing or follow-up to really understand or express confusion about what they are saying, especially when it diverges from what they have actually seen.

On 11/9/2023 at 8:04 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Re: Airport, C&C: Just re-watched. Yes, Cameron was maybe a couple paces ahead of Clare, but those behind them weren't exactly in lockstep. When C&C passed through the doorway, they were essentially side by side. Then we see more in Clare's relating the moment while they are in the hotel room.

The part I remember where she was talking about him being ahead, was when the whole group was in the walkway to the airplane (I forget what you call those things), and he was chatting away with the group and she was farther behind. It just didn't look like what I would expect a supposedly considerate and caring brand-new husband to do.

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I walk really fast, and adjusting my gait for someone who walks slower is a challenge. I can certainly do it, but I’ve been called on it before. It may take Cameron a minute to realize that he has to slow down.

But it's sooo much more than just the mechanics of his walking faster than her. If you walk faster than someone, then they aren't going to be beside you. And that simply doesn't appear to be a concern for him, which is not a good way to build (or maintain) a foundation.

9 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

He doesn't appear to have any idea of how to treat a wife, young woman!  He's still just a boy!

He told her family something like "she will certainly feel loved". I really wonder what of his past behavior has made the woman he was with feel loved. We haven't seen him do anything so far that would convey even mild affection with Clare (and her ITMs seem to confirm that).  Even if he thought she was not feeling him physically, he could still have connected with her when they went to bed in a non-physical way, but he didn't.  He apparently wasn't being chivalrous, or apparently even considerate, with her bag...even if she had described herself as independent, that doesn't mean that as a fellow human, he can't ask if she needs help with her apparently much heavier bag than his, especially as part of getting to know someone else's preferences.  And with all the walking ahead, he wasn't making her feel like he even wanted to be with her. 

[thatsall]

On 11/9/2023 at 6:54 AM, Lindz said:

Is Lauren missing a side tooth???!!!! 🤔🧐😬Thought I noticed it once last episode, but it's in the video they use to introduce them.

She is. I noticed it right away. I find dental irregularities more distracting than most probably do.

[Starlight925]

Yeah, the side tooth missing is such a distraction from an otherwise beautiful woman.  A bridge is an affordable option.  I think a lot of people think that since it's a tooth "in the back" that no one will notice.  We do.

Orion is such a distinct character.  I love the way that Lauren is leaning into him and his culture.  But we've heard very little from her, about her world.  Will this be an 80/20 relationship, where she dances to all the drum dances, learns how to wrap his hair, but he learns very little about her?  I hope for her sake the answer is no.  She's a gorgeous, vibrant woman who deserves a great guy.

I didn't like Claire the moment she came on.  She and her little troupe of siblings annoyed me early on.  They are soooo much better, so superior.  She's nagging Cameron before they've even had their first real kiss.  

Should he have walked with her, instead of ahead?  Yes.  Know how to get him to walk with you, Claire?  Hold his hand, lean up and kiss him, and tell him how you love walking with him.  Ask him to haul your suitcase up the stairs, and then kiss him and tell him how much you appreciate his help.

Or you could nag and berate him, and find yourself single at the end of all this, which is my prediction.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Starlight925

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Yeah, the side tooth missing is such a distraction from an otherwise beautiful woman.  A bridge is an affordable option.  I think a lot of people think that since it's a tooth "in the back" that no one will notice.  We do.

 

I have an upper back tooth missing - I had to have it pulled. I’m waiting for it to heal fully before they do the implant. Lauren may be planning to put something back there but is waiting for it to finish healing before it’s done.

[Meowwww]

I disagree with most, I think Claire was just assuming they’d do things together, like, you know, get on the plane together for their honeymoon.  I think Cameron is a cold jerk. It’s not about helping or not helping, it’s about doing it together.  He’s cold.  No wonder he’s single. Claire shouldn’t have to ask him to wait for her.  He should have that courtesy.  If he was traveling with a friend, I bet he would have that courtesy. 

[Lindz]

What's reasonable for two strangers that just met at their wedding the previous day? Any physical closeness would be strange to me, so idk where that comfortability comes from. It'd make sense to put on a good show for the wedding guests & actually act married at the wedding, but after that, they're pretty much starting from nothing & it's up to them to get to know each other & build a relationship. Cam & Clare seem to be doing that, somewhat. They're still acting like strangers that aren't even dating. That's too far back a starting point. The others seem be building off liking their new stranger spouse & keeping with acting married even though there's almost nothing behind that. 

[princelina]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:21 PM, Elizzikra said:

That's a sweeping generalization. I am a social worker though I never worked as a therapist. Most of the therapists I know chose the career for many reasons - the need for therapy for oneself was not usually among them.

Haha I worked in a therapists' office for 11 years - I don't think it's the reason they choose the career, but I agree with the OP that most of them need it 😄

On 11/11/2023 at 3:19 AM, thatsall said:

She is. I noticed it right away. I find dental irregularities more distracting than most probably do.

Haha this is off topic but a conversation with my mom about a guy I once dated:

Mom:  I think you're embarrassed because he's a mailman.  There's nothing wrong with that and not a good reason to dump him.

Me:  I'm not embarrassed about that.  If you must know it's because his teeth are terrible (I felt terribly shallow to admit this)

Mom: OH - well of course you can't date someone with bad teeth! 😂

In Lauren's case I think she looks great and that didn't really bother me.  It just brought back a funny memory!

6 hours ago, Lindz said:

What's reasonable for two strangers that just met at their wedding the previous day? 

To me the reasonable thing, considering that they are MARRIED and claiming to want that, is to be extra courteous to one another until they get to know each other better.  Mr. P is a nice guy but not thoughtful at all - it would never occur to him to carry my bag, drop me off at the door in the rain, etc, but when I tell him to he is more than happy to oblige.  Of course when we started dating he was knocking himself out to do everything right, but I had to learn that rather than getting offended I could just tell him what I wanted and he'd gladly do it.  So I'm on Clare's side for his airport behavior - they did just meet and if he wants this marriage like he says he does he should have kept her as his first priority.  I am NOT on her side for the way she talked to him in the hotel room, and I do think she's a bit of a madam, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

I have to say that this is probably the best dressed group of Brides on their Wedding Night that we have seen on this show!  Usually we wonder why they couldn't have worn something cuter but this season they seemed to do a good job!  I too laughed at Lauren and Orion in their "bonnets" - I don't know anything about that, but I have fine straight hair and wake up with bedhead you wouldn't believe - if I were one of these gals I'd lay on my arm the first night and barely sleep - so I got a kick out of him getting into it with her 😄

[Yeah No]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, Meowwww said:

I disagree with most, I think Claire was just assuming they’d do things together, like, you know, get on the plane together for their honeymoon.  I think Cameron is a cold jerk. It’s not about helping or not helping, it’s about doing it together.  He’s cold.  No wonder he’s single. Claire shouldn’t have to ask him to wait for her.  He should have that courtesy.  If he was traveling with a friend, I bet he would have that courtesy. 

Thank you, I agree completely.  I think Cameron is a clueless cold fish and very hard to read.  I think he is even worse in this situation because he is very nervous and afraid.  This is blowing Clare's mind because as a therapist she is used to being able to pick up on people's verbal AND non-verbal cues, but this guy is like an enigma to her.   Also, she would probably never pick a guy so unable to communicate verbally with her so she feels like she's got nothing to work with.  And it's making her not know how to approach or communicate with him.  And it's triggering her to clam up herself.  Also I just don't think either one of them is very mature for their age.  Shock surprise, right?  LOL.  On this show that's the norm these days.

It's reminding me of an old episode of Star Trek: Next Generation where counselor Deanna Troi meets someone from a species she can't read with her special empathic powers.  I don't remember much about the episode right now but I know it blew her mind and she didn't know how to figure out the person without that ability.

Cameron's friends keep saying that he's used to being able to express how he feels physically but you can't start from square one in a relationship on that basis unless you intend to have a mostly physical relationship and marriage is not that situation.  You have to be able to communicate verbally or you won't be able to get very far with a prospective date (or in this case spouse) and this is likely why Cameron feels he needs to be matched with someone at first sight, because he doesn't have those skills and thinks he can bypass that part of starting a relationship by making it happen without having to communicate.  But it doesn't work that way.  My question is why he would even put himself in what would be an extremely stressful situation for him if he couldn't handle basic verbal communication with a woman.

I also think that where Cameron is concerned he isn't especially attracted to Clare and that's also influencing his behavior.  She admitted on the Afterparty that he told her off camera that he asked the experts for someone tall and slim (as if Clare isn't slim???), and she wasn't his type.  Well, first of all, who tells someone that on their wedding night or soon after?  And that's the kiss of death if you ask me so he's the one making things difficult here, not her.  She is having a tough time figuring him out so it's leading to a lot of projection and misinterpretation on her part, but I can't really fault her for that in his case.  And I think perhaps her shields are up because she knows something is off with this guy, especially for not offering to help her with her bag and walking with her.  I also can't blame her for that.  I think she senses that making the first move with affection is not going to work either, and especially after what he said to her in private, I can't blame her for not doing that.

My question about Clare is why a therapist would sign up for this show.  She should know better and not watching the show and knowing what she was potentially setting herself up for is not an excuse either.  I'd love to know what her credentials are because these days it's potentially easy for someone to call themselves a therapist, and it also depends on what the criteria are in their specific state for practicing as one.  Some states have more rigorous standards for that than others.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, princelina said:

Haha I worked in a therapists' office for 11 years - I don't think it's the reason they choose the career, but I agree with the OP that most of them need it 😄

I have a Master's in counseling psychology and most therapists I've met or been in therapy with were probably more open to dealing with their own issues than most people but that doesn't mean that as a rule they need therapy more than most people.  They are just people, not special perfect people, nor should they need to be to be good therapists.  You don't have to be completely "together" yourself to be a good therapist.  Good therapists might be far from perfect in their personal lives but have the ability to help people nonetheless.  We are all experts when it comes to someone else's life but not always our own.   I remember a book called "The Wounded Healer" that talks about this issue.  Sometimes people work out their own issues by helping others with similar issues.

That said, I've personally not met too many therapists I would consider to be very good but that may be because I know more than most people what makes a good therapist.  And I never pursued becoming a therapist for several reasons, including that I would have a hard time not being able to stay detached enough from clients.  I would be lying though if I didn't admit that I haven't had the best opinion of a lot of therapists, but I think most of the best ones are too expensive for me.  I had a GREAT therapist years ago but only because he was willing to cut his fee way down for me.  And even he was a quirky guy personally.  But again, that isn't what should matter the most from a client's perspective.  It also depends on the particular chemistry between the client and the therapist too.  What would be a great therapist for me might not be for someone else.

[kristen111]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:21 PM, Elizzikra said:

Clare is a therapist and needs one herself. (most go into the field because they need the therapy themselves, imo)

So true, so true.  My Sister is a therapist and is the nut job in the family.  Hates mostly everyone and everything.  Is sweet as pie tho when working.

[Elizzikra]

22 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

So true, so true.  My Sister is a therapist and is the nut job in the family.  Hates mostly everyone and everything.  Is sweet as pie tho when working.

I’m not the one who said that. I actually disagree with the notion that most therapists need therapy themselves. I think they are about as likely to require therapy as the general population.

[kristen111]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:48 AM, Lindz said:

WHAT are Cam & Clare doing??!!! They're so distant!!! So much for sharing feelings!! All talk & no action, huh? & For her to know he's not expressive like that & not try to lead in that area makes no sense. She doesn't know if he's attracted to her & doesn't ask him??? 🤨 COME ON!!! I really want to know what Cam was thinking on the wedding night. Did he really withdraw because she didn't respond the way he hoped to his remark? Just. Bizarre. Like. Weirdest wedding night, in the suite, no less. Has anyone just gone to sleep like that??? 😬 So disappointed in the way she talked about her luggage. It isn't "common knowledge" to offer to help someone with their bags & keeping score of him not helping & leaving her in the airport? No. No. No. Totally wrong approach. She should really know better. & why is he responding with one word??? Not good!!! I wonder if she requested those things. I definitely would've! Someone who's open & forthcoming with their thoughts & offers to help are definitely quality traits. Just. WHY is he being so stand-offish??? How does he think they'll get closer that way? WTF IS HE THINKING???

 

I’m thinking he’s thinking Clare and her family think they are above him.  Her with the luggage was uncalled for.  She made a big deal over nothing.  Guys are sensitive like that.  Nothing wrong with Clare helping with the luggage.  She made a jerk out of him.  He probably was afraid to take his bathrobe off for fear of her saying “ you expecting something?”.  Nothing for you tonight.

Edited November 14, 2023 by kristen111