S01.E01: Pilot

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

TBA

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E01: Pilot

When a college theater student is mysteriously found dead in her high-rise New York City apartment, Elsbeth immediately suspects foul play and enters a game of wits against the victim's popular theater director Alex Modarian.

Premiere Date: February 29, 2024        CBS      10pm

Carrie Preston as Elsbeth Tascioni
Wendell Pierce as Captain C.W. Wagner 
Stephen Moyer as Alex Modarian
Danny Mastrogiorgio as Detective Smullen
Fredric Lehne as Lt Dave Noonan
Carra Patterson as Officer Kaya Blanke
Nadia Dajani as Wendy Wexler
Chelsea Lee Williams as Beatrice Bruni
Julia McDermott as Lana Brolin
Danny McCarthy as Agent Celetano
Michael Washington as Maxine 

Next New Episode: April 4, 2024        

Edited March 1 by AnimeMania

[possibilities]

Carrie Preston said in an interview I saw, that she thinks of Elsbeth as a modern day Columbo. I love Columbo! So I am hoping this show will live up to that legacy. 

I am not sure yet if it will, but I am giving it a try.

Edited March 1 by possibilities

[Irlandesa]

I liked the first episode even though I was kind of sleepy so I didn't pay as close attention as I normally would. 

I was a bit disappointed that it came down to a double space after the period but it's the first episode. 

I am curious about whether or not the Kings will build out this show into more of an ensemble the way they did with the previous shows I've seen. They're certainly setting up more of an arc with the phone call at the end.  I also found it curious they mentioned Cary Argos twice.  Cary never appeared on The Good Fight but it makes me wonder if they're setting it up for us to possibly see him in this.

Did the preview at the end say the next episode is April 4th?  I know next week is the State of the Union so no show but there's a week in between before March Madness begins.  I think it's strange to debut the show with no intent to follow with another for over a month.

[Daff]

Darn! I missed it, and next week is the SotU address. Ugh.

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I liked the first episode even though I was kind of sleepy so I didn't pay as close attention as I normally would. 

I was a bit disappointed that it came down to a double space after the period but it's the first episode. 

I am curious about whether or not the Kings will build out this show into more of an ensemble the way they did with the previous shows I've seen. They're certainly setting up more of an arc with the phone call at the end.  I also found it curious they mentioned Cary Argos twice.  Cary never appeared on The Good Fight but it makes me wonder if they're setting it up for us to possibly see him in this.

Did the preview at the end say the next episode is April 4th?  I know next week is the State of the Union so no show but there's a week in between before March Madness begins.  I think it's strange to debut the show with no intent to follow with another for over a month.

Yeah, April 4, which seems like major bait and switch. But it’s possible like with other shows, the strikes disrupted production and they weren’t ready with anything but the pilot and CBS wanted to show it now.I just wish CBS had indicated this was an early premiere like the broadcast networks have done with some other shows the last few years, including the premiere of the first season of Abbott Elementary

4 minutes ago, Daff said:

Darn! I missed it, and next week is the SotU address. Ugh.

They’ll probably repeat the episode so watch out for it

[MsMalin]

I really enjoyed this show but what the neck that next episode is April 4!!!?

[EtheltoTillie]

I liked it!  I love Columbo, and this was like Columbo. I love Wendell Pierce. He can’t be a bad guy!  I also loved Kaya the officer helping Elsbeth. She was very sharp too. They will make a great team. 

[anniebird]

I loved this character on The Good Wife/Fight and she's just as delightful here. She only appears to be ditzy and doesn't solve crimes "accidentally" - she's very sharp and very Columbo-like. If you like Columbo and Poker Face you'll probably like this. 

[headhoncho]

I got Columbo vibes almost from the get go - I really liked this - I almost didn't watch it because she came across as so flippin' annoying in the commercials!

[EtheltoTillie]

9 minutes ago, headhoncho said:

I got Columbo vibes almost from the get go - I really liked this - I almost didn't watch it because she came across as so flippin' annoying in the commercials!

I get that too, but I'm glad I tuned in.  I never watched the Good Wife, so I was not familiar with the character. 

[Daff]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I liked it!  I love Columbo, and this was like Columbo. I love Wendell Pierce. He can’t be a bad guy!  I also loved Kaya the officer helping Elsbeth. She was very sharp too. They will make a great team. 

Old, but I loved Treme. So many great actors coming together for a cause.

[possibilities]

I am skeptical of the showrunners, but I like Preston and the cast in general and definitely like the Columbo aspects. 

In addition to the bumbling persona as a cover/strategy, I liked that Columbo was a show where the criminals were generally rich white spoiled opportunists, and not "street thugs" or other stereotypes the showrunners were punching down at and had no actual knowledge of. And it was always their arrogance, self-confidence, and smugness that brought them down, not desperation or addiction or other things that make a show "gritty". Columbo was the opposite of "gritty". It was genteel, sanitized, and... brutal in the most banal and bloodless ways possible. 

The first episode of Elsbeth seems to follow that pattern, though the murderer seemed to realize Elsbeth was not as ditzy as she acted, which was a departure form the Columbo approach, where I don't recall the suspects ever cottoning to it being an act until the very moment he himself tells them.

I am not sure if "ditzy female" will play the same way as "bumbling male slob" will, for me. Am waiting to see.

I loved Elsbeth's bags-- the big colorful totes. I am noticing costuming more and more lately and I want those giant, heavyweight bags! I do wonder what she is carrying in them, though! Are they mostly empty? They would get heavy really fast if she fills them up.  They actually look fairly heavy even empty, which is another clue that she's stronger than she looks, not just mentally but also physically, when you think about it. And she has so many all at the same time! I hope we see them every week, like Columbo's trench coat and cigar.

I also felt conflicted about Wendell Pierce being probably a bad guy. I gotta get over it! I am telling myself: the actor is not the character! I think I will be annoyed if the show exonerates the police force or decides the whole thing was just a misunderstanding and actually they're innocent of whatever Elsbeth is there to investigate. 

And I liked that the one cop she approached in the beginning caught on so fast that Elsbeth is smart, and they worked so well together as a team. I guess if they are going to have one good cop on the force, I can live with it. 

I laughed about the 2 spaces after a period. I still do that. It's a reflex. It was drummed into us so much that now it's hard to retrain the muscle memory not to do it. It made for an easy solve, but I took it as a gift to people like me who come from that era.

Also, it made an excellent red herring. I thought at first: what a stupid plot hole, that he would continue to do it even after she pointed it out to him! I know it's hard to break the habit, but come on!! ... and then it turned out he was continuing doing it to frame the young guy, which was also a bit crazy because a young guy would not be doing that... so it confused everyone for a second or two more.

[EtheltoTillie]

33 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I laughed about the 2 spaces after a period. I still do that. It's a reflex. It was drummed into us so much that now it's hard to retrain the muscle memory not to do it. It made for an easy solve, but I took it as a gift to people like me who come from that era.

 

There's no way I could shake the two spaces habit at this point.  It also doesn't look right!  

I learned to type in the late 60s--on a manual typewriter.  7th grade typing class.

Anyway, the two spaces command inserts a period on the iPhone, so it's useful!  Shows that everyone must not have abandoned it. 

I agree with all your other comments. 

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Carrie Preston said in an interview I saw, that she thinks of Elsbeth as a modern day Columbo. I love Columbo! So I am hoping this show will live up to that legacy. 

I saw that interview too. 
In the last year I've watched quite a few Columbo episodes. 

4 hours ago, anniebird said:

I loved this character on The Good Wife/Fight and she's just as delightful here. She only appears to be ditzy and doesn't solve crimes "accidentally" - she's very sharp and very Columbo-like. If you like Columbo and Poker Face you'll probably like this. 

The way Elsbeth managed her interactions with the killer were straight out of Columbo's playbook — especially that bit where she left his home and then came back for "just one more thing" and overheard him on the phone saying the name of the current starlet student. 

------------

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I laughed about the 2 spaces after a period. I still do that. It's a reflex. It was drummed into us so much that now it's hard to retrain the muscle memory not to do it. It made for an easy solve, but I took it as a gift to people like me who come from that era.

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

There's no way I could shake the two spaces habit at this point.  It also doesn't look right!  

I'm someone who also learned to type with 2 spaces after the period, and I hated that plot point.🤬

As the Web Services Librarian in the early aughts when I was over 50, I had to create an algorithm to remove the   codes inserted by the old 2-space guy because they added line breaks after random ends of sentences whenever he edited the text. 
The ageist stereotyping around technology drives me batty.

But maybe it shouldn't bug me here, because how old is Elspeth supposed to be?
Carrie Preston will be 57 in June.
So Elsbeth is no spring chicken, but she caught the 2-spaces-after-the-period clue because "that's something that older people do," but, FWIW, Alex Modarian was played by Stephen Moyer who's 55. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I f'loved Elspeth's seemingly unlimited number of colorful blazers.
I don't care what the character's clothing budget would be.
Keep 'em coming.

 

[possibilities]

I'm 58, so I think people of that age are legitimate 2-spacers. I've decided to embrace being "older" because it gives me license to shake my finger at "young people" and tell them to show some respect!

No, it doesn't work. And no, I don't usually do it. But inside my head, there's a stern don't fuck with me vibe.

[Johannah]

I liked this.  I liked Columbo, too.  (Yes, I'm old and use 2 spaces.)

Unlike Columbo, Elsbeth showed her hand.  It's been awhile, but I don't remember Columbo explicitly telling his suspected killers every clue he found.

Also, someone mentioned that like Columbo, the killer doesn't realize how smart Elsbeth is.  However, this guy figured it out pretty quickly.  A lot quicker than than the cops, other than Kaya, did.

AND I'm loving Kaya and Elsbeth together.

 

[Zaffy]

I have to say I was a bit cautious with this one cause Elsbeth's character can be a bit too much, but I really enjoyed the first episode.
And I wouldn't mind guest appearances from the Good Wife/Fight universe.
I mean, there is a certain lawyer lady that now works in NY, right?

[leocadia]

I liked the show (I also liked the character on the Goods) and thought it was kind of fun that it was a True Blood mini-reunion.  Arlene finally got to take down Vampire Bill.    I also thought it was a little meta that Bill Moyer's director was railing against "melodrama" since TB was nothing if not melodramatic.

I hope they can keep it fresh because, like others, I'm a little concerned that all-Elsbeth all the time may get draining.

Edited March 2 by leocadia

[meowmommy]

I'm a trained two-spacer, too, but when I type comments on the Washington Post comment board, the software automatically removes one of the spaces.  I hate the way it looks.

If Columbo could solve one murder with a minuscule bite mark on a piece of cheese and dozens of other gotchas that probably would never hold up in court, I guess Elsbeth can solve a murder over two spaces at the end of a sentence.

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also felt conflicted about Wendell Pierce being probably a bad guy. I gotta get over it! I am telling myself: the actor is not the character!

I hope the Wendell Pierce character is not a bad guy; just the typical stubborn leadership character who exists to be proven wrong by the hero(ine) protagonist.

Edited March 2 by meowmommy

[Johannah]

Yeah, I felt a lot of Columbo's suspects confessed when faced with evidence that wouldn't convince a jury.  At least Elsbeth 's suspect was caught red-handed.  Still think he should have taken it to trial without a confession.  Lawyers can be tricky.  Elsbeth was.

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Yeah, I felt a lot of Columbo's suspects confessed when faced with evidence that wouldn't convince a jury.  At least Elsbeth 's suspect was caught red-handed. 

Isn't that more of the Murder She Wrote technique of nailing the perp?
Get the perp to confess and then have the cops come out of the shadows to do the arrest?

[wonderwoman]

3 hours ago, Zaffy said:

I have to say I was a bit cautious with this one cause Elsbeth's character can be a bit too much, but I really enjoyed the first episode.
And I wouldn't mind guest appearances from the Good Wife/Fight universe.
I mean, there is a certain lawyer lady that now works in NY, right?

 

1 hour ago, leocadia said:

I hope they can keep it fresh because, like others, I'm a little concerned that all-Elsbeth all the time may get draining

the huffpost concurs (as do i:)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elsbeth-quirky-good-wife-carrie-preston_n_65e13e5ee4b0d2a24758b7dc#

[Haleth]

This was cute, certainly similar to Poker Face and Columbo with the cat and mouse game between the quirky investigator and the villain.  I agree Elsbeth can be a bit much if the writers aren't careful with her, so we'll see how well they can balance whimsy and drama.  I never watched The Good Wife but I loved The Good Fight.

Double spacer here.  Heh.  I'd heard that was a Boomer thing.  I think it's maybe a mark of people who learned to type on a typewriter vs a keyboard.  Maybe?

[gibasi]

I had to retrain myself to one space after a period. Both APA and MLA require it now.

Like others I wasn't familiar with the Elsbeth character but I do like Columbo so I will give it a shot. Both Stephen Moyer and Carrie Preston seemed to be enjoying themselves and that was fun to watch.

 

[jah1986]

I really enjoyed this pilot episode. I liked Elsbeth on the Good Wife (didn't watch the Good Fight too much), so glad to see her here.

I'll be sorry if the Captain is corrupt because I really enjoyed him in this episode. I loved his "I don't care who's right, just catch the killer". And all his interactions with Elsbeth "take you hand off the door or I'll shoot you". Probably a bit much but the line deliveries were great, to me, he's funnier than Elsbeth.

A bit disappointing that we have to wait a month for the next episode.

[Johannah]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Isn't that more of the Murder She Wrote technique of nailing the perp?
Get the perp to confess and then have the cops come out of the shadows to do the arrest?

Could be.  Didn't watch that show much.  I just remember shows where people confessed with the flimsiest of evidence.  I've watched so many detective/cop shows in my life, I could be confusing them.

[jah1986]

Yes, it was Murder She Wrote. I always appreciated that Jessica never confronted a murderer on her own. The police were always right outside the door keeping Jessica safe.

[Yeah No]

Haha, I knew I'd find some of you over here! 😉 I love the Columbo vibe and the fact that in this day and age of all under 40 casts we have a middle aged female main character and an older villain and police captain too (who I hope is not a bad guy).  

I loved the usage of NYC in this and the scenes at Julliard.  I can forgive some of the unrealistic aspects because it's supposed to be quirky and that quirkiness works here.

Fellow double spacer here.  I feel better knowing that people several years younger than me are also double spacers, LOL. 

Here's a fun fact:  I looked it up and read that they think the double space after sentence punctuation became a thing because manual typewriters mono-spaced everything while electronic devices use proportional spacing dependent on the character and how much space it takes up.  So to be on the safe side, a double space was recommended to accommodate larger characters on manual typewriters.  

Actually, I learned on an IBM Selectric that had proportional spacing and never typed on a manual typewriter.  My mother worked for a law firm that sold its old typewriters to employees at reduced prices and I didn't need to start typing until I went to college.

I know a show is good when my husband watches it and says "I'm in".

 

On 3/1/2024 at 11:04 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I get that too, but I'm glad I tuned in.  I never watched the Good Wife, so I was not familiar with the character. 

Same here!

[Bumblebee84047]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:51 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I love Wendell Pierce. He can’t be a bad guy!

That's exactly what I thought!  I'm hoping Elsbeth's investigation will exonerate him.

[NeenerNeener]

On 3/1/2024 at 2:46 AM, Irlandesa said:

I was a bit disappointed that it came down to a double space after the period but it's the first episode. 

I'm in my mid-60s and we were never taught about 2 spaces after a period.

I love this show so far. I wonder if we'll ever see Matt Czuchry since they teased that Carey Agos was their other option for an impartial observer.

[kaygeeret]

I'm so old I never knew that 2 spaces were out after a period!

Turns out the comments are educational as well as opinion oriented.

PS I will continue to double space after a period.  I'm too old to change.  And the computer will do whatever it wants.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:07 PM, shapeshifter said:

I saw that interview too. 
In the last year I've watched quite a few Columbo episodes. 

The way Elsbeth managed her interactions with the killer were straight out of Columbo's playbook — especially that bit where she left his home and then came back for "just one more thing" and overheard him on the phone saying the name of the current starlet student. 

------------

I'm someone who also learned to type with 2 spaces after the period, and I hated that plot point.🤬

As the Web Services Librarian in the early aughts when I was over 50, I had to create an algorithm to remove the   codes inserted by the old 2-space guy because they added line breaks after random ends of sentences whenever he edited the text. 
The ageist stereotyping around technology drives me batty.

But maybe it shouldn't bug me here, because how old is Elspeth supposed to be?
Carrie Preston will be 57 in June.
So Elsbeth is no spring chicken, but she caught the 2-spaces-after-the-period clue because "that's something that older people do," but, FWIW, Alex Modarian was played by Stephen Moyer who's 55. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I f'loved Elspeth's seemingly unlimited number of colorful blazers.
I don't care what the character's clothing budget would be.
Keep 'em coming.

 

I took it differently, I guess. Elsbeth mentioned she's been a lawyer for 30 years so the character is likely in her late 50s. Elsbeth isn't saying that no one from an older generation single-spaces or is aware that double-spacing after a period is no longer standard practice. Some folks still double-space; others don't. However, double-spacing after punctuation is a sign that something was written by an older person because the younger generations were never taught double-spacing to begin with.

I didn't find it to be ageist or even about technology. To me, it's kinda like observing the way someone does math. There are plenty of reasons for someone who's 45+ to be well-versed in the way math is taught nowadays: math teacher, military-trained, parents/family member helping kids with their homework, etc. However, if I see someone in the US (because I know math is taught differently in different places) doing math the way I learned it, I'm pretty sure the person is close to my age or older.  

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I took it differently, I guess. Elsbeth mentioned she's been a lawyer for 30 years so the character is likely in her late 50s. Elsbeth isn't saying that no one from an older generation single-spaces or is aware that double-spacing after a period is no longer standard practice. Some folks still double-space; others don't. However, double-spacing after punctuation is a sign that something was written by an older person because the younger generations were never taught double-spacing to begin with.

I taught myself how to type back in the late '70s.  The only reason I learned to double space after a sentence is because my mother was a legal secretary and told me that was the proper thing to do.  I then noticed how double spacing was the thing on pretty much everything back then.  I somehow never noticed or heard that anyone started single spacing or when that started to change.  At this point it would be incredibly hard for me to make the switch so if that gives me away as an older person, so be it.  But I have a feeling most people, including younger people, wouldn't even notice.  So I'm good, LOL. 😉

BTW, I am more concerned with people noticing my metal fillings when I laugh because that's also a dead giveaway that you're older since they don't normally use them anymore and just use that tooth colored stuff.  I had a fantastic dentist that gave me the strongest and best fillings ever on a couple of rear molars that are over 30 years old and have never needed to be replaced, so I've had to make my peace with that, LOL.

[JH Lipton]

I never watched The Good Wife or The Good Fight so all I knew about the show was from the ads, which were all about how "quirky" she is.  To paraphrase Lou Grant, "You're quirky.  I hate quirky."  I got that it was a modern day Columbo early on, but Elsbeth doesn't gave Columbo's charm. So I'm iffy -- I'll have to see if it's too quirky for me.

What was with the business of the killer switching the pills in the dressing room and back in the apartment?

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, JH Lipton said:

What was with the business of the killer switching the pills in the dressing room and back in the apartment?

I am guessing it was the same prescription (Lorazepam) except each pill was of a much higher dosage (10 to 15 times stronger, which would be enough to knock her out with a single pill) so that taking one pill would seem like she took several, to corroborate the suicide theory.

[shapeshifter]

19 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I took it differently, I guess. Elsbeth mentioned she's been a lawyer for 30 years so the character is likely in her late 50s. Elsbeth isn't saying that no one from an older generation single-spaces or is aware that double-spacing after a period is no longer standard practice. Some folks still double-space; others don't. However, double-spacing after punctuation is a sign that something was written by an older person because the younger generations were never taught double-spacing to begin with.

I didn't find it to be ageist or even about technology. To me, it's kinda like observing the way someone does math. There are plenty of reasons for someone who's 45+ to be well-versed in the way math is taught nowadays: math teacher, military-trained, parents/family member helping kids with their homework, etc. However, if I see someone in the US (because I know math is taught differently in different places) doing math the way I learned it, I'm pretty sure the person is close to my age or older.  

You are right, @love2lovebadtv.
I was having a knee-jerk reaction to Elsbeth's line of “Do you know that's something that older people do, not younger?”
Thank you for taking the time to point out specifically why this is not one of those ageist plot points.
The script is actually the opposite of ageist, although any young, ageist people watching might not notice. IDK. I guess I'll have to go on TikTok to find out what they think, LOL.

But the writers even turned the scent of “Old Irish” (not “Old Spice” or “Irish Spring”) on its ageist head when it was revealed that the young assistant was using it. 
So I guess I totally missed the writers (the Kings? — who are now eligible for Social Security) valiant efforts to establish that this is not an ageist scenario.

 

❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊

 

And, yes, @Yeah No, most people of any age would not notice 2 spaces after a period on a printed document. 

Which leads me to my other, non-agesist issue with the 2-space plot point.

• Maybe someone here can help me see the error of my ways once again, but I'm doubtful, because for many decades I created signs and signage and worked with fonts. In the 1990s, in my late 40s, on a listserv for graduate students writing and formatting their final theses, I was even punnily addressed as The Font of Knowledge. So, much like a lawyer watching Law & Order or a doctor watching Grey's Anatomy, I'm probably going to have to let this go, but, anyway…

Here goes:

When Elsbeth was looking for other examples of the use of 2-spaces after a period(*) which the young victim had seemingly used on her suicidal texts,**
I'm a bit critical of the choice to show Elsbeth determining 2-spaces were used on the printed, posted bios about the lead actresses. Font faces can vary a lot regarding the width of and between letters, and, for that matter, kerning (the space between letters) can be manually adjusted in MS Word, and often is to improve legibility for notices and posters hung on walls.
So I wish there was at least a throwaway line from Elsbeth mentioning they needed to find one or more digital files produced by the suspect, and to verify that there were 2 spaces after each period. 
Did I miss it?
They only looked at a printed syllabus for comparison too, right?

____________________

* “Double spacing” is not the same as “2 spaces,” but I'll generously let that line go with just a shivery twitch, especially since it was used by a younger, tertiary character, and might have even been put in there on purpose by the Kings as an inside joke for those of us who know better.

** But it turned out the killer had cloned her sim card and sent the texts — which illustrated that even though he was a 2-spacer, he was at least as tech savvy as most younger people.

Edited March 3 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And, yes, @Yeah No, most people of any age would not notice 2 spaces after a period on a printed document. 

Which leads me to my other, non-agesist issues with the 2-space plot point. Maybe someone here can help me see the error of my ways once again, but I'm doubtful, because for many decades I created signs and signage and worked with fonts. In the 1990s, in my late 40s, on a listserv for graduate students writing and formatting their final theses, I was even punnily addressed as The Font of Knowledge. So, much like a lawyer watching Law & Order or a doctor watching Grey's Anatomy, I'm probably going to have to let this go, but, anyway…
Here goes:

When Elsbeth was looking for other examples of the use of 2-spaces(*) like the young victim had seemingly used on her suicidal texts, I'm a bit critical of the choice to show Elsbeth determining 2-spaces were used on the printed, posted bios about the lead actresses. Font faces can vary a lot regarding the width of and between letters, and, for that matter, kerning (the space between letters) can be manually adjusted in MS Word, and often is to improve legibility for posters. So I wish there was at least a throwaway line from Elsbeth mentioning they needed to find one or more of the digital files and verify that there were 2 spaces after each period. 
Did I miss it?
They only looked at a printed syllabus for comparison too, right?

____________________

* “Double spacing” is not the same as “2 spaces,” but I'll generously let that line go with just a shivery twitch, especially since it was used by a younger, tertiary character, and might have even been put in there on purpose by the Kings as an inside joke for those of us who know better.

You're right!  I'm not a "Font of Knowledge" (haha, Sheldon Cooper would love that title) but I am sure that whoever printed up the syllabi or those  printed bios wouldn't just take someone's draft that they did in Word or whatever program and reproduce it exactly as they spaced it.  This is not the age of the mimeograph machine or the carbon copy where everything was basically an exact copy of the original.  Good catch, because I didn't even think of that, but then again, I'm not the "Font of Knowledge", LOL!  😉

And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "double spacing" refer to line spacing, not character spacing?  I really know better, but I guess at 5:00 a.m. I morphed the two together!

Edited March 3 by Yeah No

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "double spacing" refer to line spacing, not character spacing?  I really know better, but I guess at 5:00 a.m. I morphed the two together!

It tends to mean that but I think she specified that it was after a period which doesn't make think of hitting the enter bar twice but the space bar twice.

The one thing I don't recall being mentioned is that a lot of programs these days will automatically get rid of the double space after a period if you put it in.

(I tested and this forum leaves them in if you do two spaces after a period so maybe that's not as universal as I thought.)

Edited March 3 by Irlandesa

[possibilities]

I do agree that Elsbeth is skating a thin line between Columbo and... Mr. Bean. I am waiting to see if they ultimately decide to lean one way or the other. 

[Beezella]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:22 AM, Daff said:

Darn! I missed it, and next week is the SotU address. Ugh.

The pilot is being repeated March 14. Yay! I missed it too, but Mr. Beezella had recorded it.  We both liked it a lot.

I had completely forgotten about double space bar at end of a sentence. It took a minute to remember when that went away (for me) and it was when most of us began typing on a computer.

I put one double space bar in to see if it auto corrects when I post.

[pasdetrois]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:40 PM, Daff said:

Old, but I loved Treme. So many great actors coming together for a cause.

I grew up near NOLA and I LOVED Treme. I heard it would leave HBO's lineup so I watched the entire thing again recently.

Wendell Pierce has one of the best voices in the entertainment business.

I'm also a two-spacer typist. However, in many documents I write or edit for the federal government, or for online content, I deal with extremely limited page allotments, so two spaces are out. I also know that Garamond type takes up the least amount of space on a page.

Edited March 3 by pasdetrois

[possibilities]

I'm making a note about Garamond. 

I watched an entire movie about Helvetica and I loved it. I had no idea font politics were so heated!

[possibilities]

FMI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica_(film)

[Dowel Jones]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I do agree that Elsbeth is skating a thin line between Columbo and... Mr. Bean. I am waiting to see if they ultimately decide to lean one way or the other. 

That's my issue, too.  The difference is that Columbo was a detective on the police force and Elsbeth is a nosy attorney getting involved where she shouldn't be, and the police seem to be complacent with it.  Sure, the premise of the series is that she swoops in where all the cops can't figure it out and provides the critical link to the guilty party.  What's holding this whole idea up is the investigation into Captain Wagner, which likely will be the season long arc.

[love2lovebadtv]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

You are right, @love2lovebadtv.
I was having a knee-jerk reaction to Elsbeth's line of “Do you know that's something that older people do, not younger?”
Thank you for taking the time to point out specifically why this is not one of those ageist plot points.
The script is actually the opposite of ageist, although any young, ageist people watching might not notice. IDK. I guess I'll have to go on TikTok to find out what they think, LOL.

But the writers even turned the scent of “Old Irish” (not “Old Spice” or “Irish Spring”) on its ageist head when it was revealed that the young assistant was using it. 
So I guess I totally missed the writers (the Kings? — who are now eligible for Social Security) valiant efforts to establish that this is not an ageist scenario.

 

❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊ ❊

 

And, yes, @Yeah No, most people of any age would not notice 2 spaces after a period on a printed document. 

Which leads me to my other, non-agesist issue with the 2-space plot point.

• Maybe someone here can help me see the error of my ways once again, but I'm doubtful, because for many decades I created signs and signage and worked with fonts. In the 1990s, in my late 40s, on a listserv for graduate students writing and formatting their final theses, I was even punnily addressed as The Font of Knowledge. So, much like a lawyer watching Law & Order or a doctor watching Grey's Anatomy, I'm probably going to have to let this go, but, anyway…

Here goes:

When Elsbeth was looking for other examples of the use of 2-spaces after a period(*) which the young victim had seemingly used on her suicidal texts,**
I'm a bit critical of the choice to show Elsbeth determining 2-spaces were used on the printed, posted bios about the lead actresses. Font faces can vary a lot regarding the width of and between letters, and, for that matter, kerning (the space between letters) can be manually adjusted in MS Word, and often is to improve legibility for notices and posters hung on walls.
So I wish there was at least a throwaway line from Elsbeth mentioning they needed to find one or more digital files produced by the suspect, and to verify that there were 2 spaces after each period. 
Did I miss it?
They only looked at a printed syllabus for comparison too, right?

____________________

* “Double spacing” is not the same as “2 spaces,” but I'll generously let that line go with just a shivery twitch, especially since it was used by a younger, tertiary character, and might have even been put in there on purpose by the Kings as an inside joke for those of us who know better.

** But it turned out the killer had cloned her sim card and sent the texts — which illustrated that even though he was a 2-spacer, he was at least as tech savvy as most younger people.

That's just it. Older generations have decades of knowledge. I can type on a typewriter or any kind of keyboard you put in front of me because I learned one way but then had to adapt to others. I grew up with encyclopedias and microfliche but I'm comfortable using AI. I'm familiar with the Dewey decimal system and love GIFs and emojis, too. My kids could never. 

I feel like Elsbeth having lived through multiple decades as a lawyer is only going to help her throughout the series and I'm here for it. 

I think the two spaces (you're right, it's not really double-spacing) was just a signal for Elsbeth to look for a killer outside the college student committing suicide. Even before Elsbeth looked at the syllabus, she looked at the deceased student's former texts and they were formatted differently. That's a huge deal in a investigation. Like how the unibomber was caught because of his unique phrasing of a familiar saying. 

[possibilities]

I kind of like how her observations and knowledge base give her a slightly Sherlock Holmes tinge. It's not just her ditzy persona being used to disarm the suspects; she also has extremely sharp observational skills and knowledge that other people don't have in the forefront of their minds.

The way she noticed the diaphragm case was empty, and the "typically male deodorant" in the victim's bathroom-- it's not exactly rocket science, but the cops didn't notice.

She's there on a "consent decree" to investigate the NYPD, which in a way makes her "above" Columbo in rank. The dynamic is different because Columbo was known by the cops and only the suspects didn't know what his game was. Elsbeth is not one of the cops, so she is running her game on both the COTW suspects AND the cops at the same time, though I think the cops are already catching on to what she's about.

Still... her running essentially two investigations at once-- the COTW and the NYPD corruption case-- is actually a lot more complicated than what Columbo did. 

Please, show, don't fuck it up.

 

[Yeah No]

9 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I kind of like how her observations and knowledge base give her a slightly Sherlock Holmes tinge. It's not just her ditzy persona being used to disarm the suspects; she also has extremely sharp observational skills and knowledge that other people don't have in the forefront of their minds.

The way she noticed the diaphragm case was empty, and the "typically male deodorant" in the victim's bathroom-- it's not exactly rocket science, but the cops didn't notice.

I think that's one of the main things I like about this show already, because I'm one of those people that regularly notices things that a lot of other people don't notice.  It's been the story of my life and I'm often easily dismissed because some of the things I see seem so trivial or incidental to other people.  It feels good to see someone get noticed and taken seriously in using that talent in spite of their seemingly kooky ways.

I've been watching old episodes of "Adam 12" and officer Reed is sometimes similar in the types of things he notices.  Like he noticed that a license plate had a number/letter combination that was from the northern part of the state (which used to be a thing) while the holder had the name of a dealership in the southern part of the state.  Hah, it would be me to notice something like that.

[possibilities]

We're off topic but I need you all to know about this game:

https://type.method.ac/#

[ahpny]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:43 PM, possibilities said:

I laughed about the 2 spaces after a period. I still do that. It's a reflex. It was drummed into us so much that now it's hard to retrain the muscle memory not to do it.

For many years, I'd done double-spaced after a period, but converted to single spacing a few years ago basically to save space in page-limited documents. I hadn't realized there was a generational divide over this issue, however.

They definitely succeeded in capturing a Columbo-eque tone, and it works well for this already-firmly-established character. While Columbo's false facade arose from his rumpled, disorganized, and seemingly-bumbling persona, Elsbeth's flows from her quirkiness and seemingly-easily-distracted and short attention span persona.

On 3/1/2024 at 9:49 PM, leocadia said:

it was kind of fun that it was a True Blood mini-reunion.  Arlene finally got to take down Vampire Bill. 

The look she gave the Stephen Moyer character when they first met - like "haven't we seen each other before somewhere?" - took me back to True Blood.