S07.E04: A Most Uncomfortable Woman

[Athena]

Quote

On the way to Scotland, Jamie is pulled back into the Revolutionary War. William is sent on a covert mission. Roger and Brianna struggle to adapt to life in the 1980s.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[Rum Cakes]

I have not read the books. Boy could you see a love triangle coming from a mile away. Kudos to the actors for making the viewer feel it. My mouth dropped at the revelation of the newspaper obituary. I love that a few random people for whatever reason can time travel, I don’t know how I feel about introducing so much supernatural seven seasons in. I have been on this roller coaster since the beginning, I’ll stay until the end.
As a Vermonter that can trace my father’s family  back to the first settlements along the Connecticut river I fear the Fraser’s might be about to encounter our local hero Ethan Allen and his boys. As a Scot on my mothers side I just want everyone to be friends. 

[Glade]

This whole episode was a very unexpected diversion!  The most unexpected part had to be that foray into horror film with the woman burned alive surrounded by cheering soldiers; I really hope there were actual consequences for that murder.  I hadn't foreseen Ian/William making an interesting pairing out in the swamp, and Mary is very likeable and interesting, I agree!  Rollo is so adorable, I'm glad we get a bit more of them.   But it seems no one's inclined to tell Tom the truth about Allan, but maybe I would let it go as well, provided he didn't keep popping up every five minutes.   I do hope we get the Scotland trip someday, though...  

I guess Roger lost his tenure at Oxford and sees no path to restarting his academic career?  The commute from Midhope Castle to The University of Edinburgh wouldn't be that bad, but maybe the fictional Lallybroch is supposed to be much more remote. Roger and Bri are not inclined to imagine that the so-called Nucklevalee (or whatever) may have been a sketchy intruder on the estate somewhere, which is shortsighted. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Glade

[Hanahope]

yeah, there's a love triangle alright brewing between Ian, William and Mary was it?  Jamie might not want to be on the other side of a gun from his son, but i think Ian might not mind as much.  Nice that they are showing William has Jamie's sense of right.  I guess the rest of the season will focus around Fort Ticonderoga.  i recognize the name, but don't recall the specifics about it in the war.  

I agree that the knucklevee (?) is someone living somewhere close by on the grounds and Bree and Roger better check it out.  could it be another timetraveler who returned from the past?  or just a regular vagabond?

Bree definitely has Claire's assertiveness and lucky for her the interviewer seems to be a decent guy, who wasn't immediately insulted by a smart woman.

i'm surprised they haven't gone back to look for the gold.  i don't know why they are worried about speaking with Jem about the cave.  How have they supported themselves for 3-4 years?  did they sell Bree's Boston house?  i suppose Bree tapped into the bank accounts Claire left for her.  hopefully they earned good interest while she was away.  and i guess Roger has income from his title?

i forget, what was the mark on the wall in Lallybrook all about?

 

[BitterApple]

I can see Roger and Bree having a decent amount of cash. Bree would've had whatever Frank left her plus Claire's savings and the sale of the Boston house. Roger might've had an inheritance from the Reverend. 

I thought the Quaker girl's name was Rachel? I agree there's an obvious love triangle brewing, but I'm hoping William taps out. It's the 1700s and he's an Earl. No way would he be allowed to marry someone outside his social class. She'd be more compatible with Ian. The scenes of William and Ian in the swamp were great though, especially when Rollo laid down next to Willie. 

Roger being the Debbie Downer after Bree kicked ass in her interview was so annoying. What's stopping him from going back to work? If he can't get hired at a fancy university then teach high school or at a small college. 

I'm glad the mystery behind the obituary was cleared up. 

I'm looking forward to Claire and Jamie meeting famous historical figures as they establish themselves in New York. This season has been really good so far. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Good to get the confirmation in the previouslies about the bank accounts. 

The rate they're plowing through time now; it's 1980! We're going to see Jamie at the Constitutional Convention by the end of the season. It's kind of weird though that the present isn't at the same 'time' as the past. Although I think it's funny, we're in 1980 (FeministThreat!Bree), and they've been zipping through plot, but Young Ian, Claire, and Jamie still haven't made it to Wilmington. 

William is switching sides, no? With Young Ian as his new friend he surely will see the error of his ways. This seems like the most screen time he's got in years. Even the dog. I'm glad he finally spoke up about not wanting to leave for Scotland. There's a lot for him here in American based on the looooonging looks the sister doctor was giving him. 

I was shocked that there was 30 seconds of musings about time travel. I'm surprised they actually thought Claire and Jamie really died before they went back. I always thought it was a fake out, and I was correct it would seem thanks to Mr. Christie. Who is learning that this New America is a land of second acts. 

Sure, how can Harnett not conscript Jamie? But, making him just a colonel seems to be short shrift tbh. Also he's 60. Let him recruit or be a spy. That's far more interesting. Unless he becomes Washington's aide-de-camp. Credit to Claire and Young Ian though; they went all in. We got a big battle coming up at Ticonderoga in July 1777. I'm actually a little disappointed they went North. I've said plenty of times that the Revolution from the southern pov was interesting because it hasn't been done. 

I still wonder if Jamie can future-dream through Jem. 

19 hours ago, Glade said:

The commute from Midhope Castle to The University of Edinburgh wouldn't be that bad, but maybe the fictional Lallybroch is supposed to be much more remote.

I get Roger being a product of his time and wanting to be the 'breadwinner', but, he could write a 'novel' about time traveling to Scotland. Almost like the books in our real life are what Roger actually wrote. Or work for a newspaper or monthly magazine documenting the restoration of Lolly. He's kind of brooding around the house, again, though with a lack of initiative like he did in the past until he went all minister. I feel like we've spent a lot of time here discussing all the opportunities he's not thinking of. 

Also, I'm not interested in Bree v the men at the dam plot viz the Revolution and Young Ian. 

I did enjoy the episode, and this season is light years better than the last with the exception that Fergus seems gone. 

[LoveLeigh]

I miss so much on this show and get confused... In the future, Brianna and Roger learn they saved Jamie and Claire. How did Brianna and Roger actually save Jamie and Claire from death?

[DoctorAtomic]

I think they're giving themselves a little too much credit is how. 

[Hanahope]

Because the fire didn’t happen at the time of the newspaper article and to their knowledge, at first, never happened at all.  Then when they read the letters, they know the fire happened but Jamie and Claire didn’t die.  So they believe they changed history in some way.
 

As we know now (though maybe Claire didn’t write about it in a letter) the obituary was never correct, Tom Christie heard about the fire and assumed they died.  

[toomuchtv]

They seemed to make their way from North Carolina to New York awfully quickly for the time. 

[iMonrey]

I really don't care about William, and so much of this episode was spent on him. Maybe if he were interacting with characters I know aside from Ian, but so far, ugh, no.

So did Bree and Roger change history or not? So much of Roger's brooding seems rooted in his belief that God doesn't have some plan for all things because they were able to change history. But it seems like they didn't because we found out the obit was just an error on Tom's part. Then again, what about the date? So confusing.

On 7/7/2023 at 2:35 AM, Glade said:

Roger and Bri are not inclined to imagine that the so-called Nucklevalee (or whatever) may have been a sketchy intruder on the estate somewhere, which is shortsighted. 

Agree - they were just way too dismissive of their son. What about a few follow-up questions, like "Show me where you saw/talked to this person?" The kid seemed pretty sincere and copped to lying about the clock radio.

[Lola82]

Omg why in the world are Bree and Roger waiting to ask Jemmy about the Spaniard?? Do they think he’s going to retain this random memory for years and years? They don’t need to touch the gold if they don’t want to but I call BS on Jemmy remembering where this cave is at this point.

 

[BitterApple]

39 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

Omg why in the world are Bree and Roger waiting to ask Jemmy about the Spaniard?? Do they think he’s going to retain this random memory for years and years? They don’t need to touch the gold if they don’t want to but I call BS on Jemmy remembering where this cave is at this point.

 

Agreed, right up there with, "I don't want to read all of Ma and Da's letters at once!." Um, NOBODY would do that. First off, you couldn't resist the curiosity and second, what if God forbid there was a house fire or flood or some other accident where they got destroyed? You'd have to go the rest of your life never knowing what happened. I understand the show is doing it because we need plot to unfold in both timelines, but it's not very realistic. 

7 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

I miss so much on this show and get confused... In the future, Brianna and Roger learn they saved Jamie and Claire. How did Brianna and Roger actually save Jamie and Claire from death?

I'm confused as well. I guess you could argue Bree warning Jamie and Claire caused them to be aware and more careful, but that doesn't make much sense given the fire didn't happen in the month the newspaper claimed. I'm assuming Claire wrote the details in her letters, so Bree and Roger must've known the dates didn't match. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:35 AM, Glade said:

I hadn't foreseen Ian/William making an interesting pairing out in the swamp, and Mary is very likeable and interesting, I agree!

On 7/7/2023 at 2:06 PM, Hanahope said:

yeah, there's a love triangle alright brewing between Ian, William and Mary was it?

On 7/7/2023 at 5:23 PM, BitterApple said:

I thought the Quaker girl's name was Rachel?

Yes, her name is Rachel, not Mary.

7 hours ago, toomuchtv said:

They seemed to make their way from North Carolina to New York awfully quickly for the time. 

We don't know how quick it was, we didn't see it.

On 7/7/2023 at 3:35 AM, Glade said:

Roger and Bri are not inclined to imagine that the so-called Nucklevalee (or whatever) may have been a sketchy intruder on the estate somewhere, which is shortsighted. 

I agree. It annoys me when in fiction a child says they met a monster or something like that and their parents assume it was completely made up instead of considering that, while of course it's not really a monster, maybe they met a shifty person instead and thought it was a monster. Like when in Resident Alien a boy tells his mother there's an alien under his bed and she just accuses him of lying and leaves Without. Even. Looking. Under. It. If she had, she would have seen "Harry" in his human disguise because most people can't see his real face, but she would have seen there really was a person under her son's bed. I would never neglect to check these things if I were a parent.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[shelen]

9 hours ago, toomuchtv said:

They seemed to make their way from North Carolina to New York awfully quickly for the time. 

In fairness, though, we don't know how much time passed.  It could easily have been three months by ship and then by foot to the fort.

[Cosmocrush]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:23 PM, BitterApple said:

Roger being the Debbie Downer after Bree kicked ass in her interview was so annoying. What's stopping him from going back to work? If he can't get hired at a fancy university then teach high school or at a small college

This guy is STILL whining about not working, only now he’s adding wanting to be the breadwinner instead of Bree. Geez Roger, just go get a job or stop whining.

5 hours ago, Lola82 said:

Omg why in the world are Bree and Roger waiting to ask Jemmy about the Spaniard?? Do they think he’s going to retain this random memory for years and years? They don’t need to touch the gold if they don’t want to but I call BS on Jemmy remembering where this cave is at this point.

I know!  How many eight/nine year olds could remember specific directions from when they were four years old?  I second your call of BS .

[FnkyChkn34]

I quit reading the books halfway through Book 5, but I still visit both threads because I don't care about being spoiled.  The tone of the two threads is starting to be vastly different when it comes to viewers' satisfaction.  Personally, the show has lost me.  It jumped the shark somewhere around season 3/4.  

Why does everyone have to be in love with Claire?  That whole storyline was ridiculous.  I figured from the start that the obituary was fake, though I thought it would have been Fergus who got wrong information and published it to honor his adoptive parents.

Speaking of Fergus, why have he and his family vanished?  He was one of my favorite characters from the time they introduced him as a boy.  I feel like both the author and the writers of the show must just get to a point where they can't figure out where to go with a character anymore, so they just write them out and forget about them - and hope the audience will too.  

Is it sad that I've come to be more interested in the story of Bree and Roger in the 1980s than I am with Jamie and Claire?

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, shelen said:

In fairness, though, we don't know how much time passed.  It could easily have been three months by ship and then by foot to the fort.

If they're going to do that though, they need to show us some sort of montage or quick time-lapse of scenery or a calendar or . . . something. Something to short-hand the fact that they are jumping ahead a few months. Maybe just a simple voice-over from Claire saying "after a few months travel we wound up here." Without context it seems like they're just beaming around like on Star Trek.

[ferjy]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:35 AM, Glade said:

provided he didn't keep popping up every five minutes.  

He just won’t leave! I half expect him to pop up  again, maybe from under the bed when Claire and Jamie are having a tumble. 😄

 

[steph369]

9 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Why does everyone have to be in love with Claire? 

Because the author based the character on herself and needs the ego boost. 

 

[jmnf19]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

He just won’t leave! I half expect him to pop up  again, maybe from under the bed when Claire and Jamie are having a tumble. 😄

 

Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. It was nice to see Mark Lewis Jones again though. I thought we had seen the last of him. Such a good actor. 

[BitterApple]

39 minutes ago, steph369 said:

Because the author based the character on herself and needs the ego boost. 

 

Lol, like the Twilight author! 🤣

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, steph369 said:

Because the author based the character on herself and needs the ego boost. 

 

I like the show, but Claire is quite Mary Sue ish. 

At least we know she won't die tragically. 

[goldilocks]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Lol, like the Twilight author! 🤣

Ha ha! I think a lot of writers do it. More often in bodice rippers. This show does have a bit of that element too!

[jenn31]

3 hours ago, steph369 said:

Because the author based the character on herself and needs the ego boost. 

 

And Brianna must be based on her daughter in real life. No waitressing for her. She had to make her an engineer! Heading a vast project no less. In the 70’s! Give me a break.

[Cdh20]

On 7/8/2023 at 3:32 PM, BitterApple said:

Agreed, right up there with, "I don't want to read all of Ma and Da's letters at once!." Um, NOBODY would do that. First off, you couldn't resist the curiosity and second, what if God forbid there was a house fire or flood or some other accident where they got destroyed? You'd have to go the rest of your life never knowing what happened. I understand the show is doing it because we need plot to unfold in both timelines, but it's not very realistic. 

I'm confused as well. I guess you could argue Bree warning Jamie and Claire caused them to be aware and more careful, but that doesn't make much sense given the fire didn't happen in the month the newspaper claimed. I'm assuming Claire wrote the details in her letters, so Bree and Roger must've known the dates didn't match. 

I understood that they wanted to savour the letters, & certainly since there is an end to them, they did not want to know if anything terrible happened? Or get to the end & be sad there is no more letters, assume they finally did die, because there is no more letters. But you are right the show is actually using them to tell the story…

Edited July 10, 2023 by Cdh20
Spelling

[Cdh20]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:35 AM, Glade said:

This whole episode was a very unexpected diversion!  The most unexpected part had to be that foray into horror film with the woman burned alive surrounded by cheering soldiers; I really hope there were actual consequences for that murder.  I hadn't foreseen Ian/William making an interesting pairing out in the swamp, and Mary is very likeable and interesting, I agree!  Rollo is so adorable, I'm glad we get a bit more of them.   But it seems no one's inclined to tell Tom the truth about Allan, but maybe I would let it go as well, provided he didn't keep popping up every five minutes.   I do hope we get the Scotland trip someday, though...  

I guess Roger lost his tenure at Oxford and sees no path to restarting his academic career?  The commute from Midhope Castle to The University of Edinburgh wouldn't be that bad, but maybe the fictional Lallybroch is supposed to be much more remote. Roger and Bri are not inclined to imagine that the so-called Nucklevalee (or whatever) may have been a sketchy intruder on the estate somewhere, which is shortsighted. 

I was shocked that Claire did not tell Tom about Allan, but decided she decided to let him have some piece of mind, since he did after all save her. 

[Cdh20]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:06 PM, Hanahope said:

 

i forget, what was the mark on the wall in Lallybrook all about?

 

The mark was from episode 302 when the British redcoats were terrorizing Lallybroch residents about hiding the Dunbonnet (Jamie). 

[ferjy]

10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I like the show, but Claire is quite Mary Sue ish. 

At least we know she won't die tragically. 

Absolutely. Even as far as becoming a surgeon, doctor wasn’t enough. I would find her boring if it wasn’t for the healer aspect of the character which holds my interest (in the past, not doctor Claire in her own time). 

 

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Ha ha! I think a lot of writers do it. More often in bodice rippers. This show does have a bit of that element too!

I think you’re right. Female authors tend to write themselves the heroine as beautiful and accomplished whereas male authors tend to make their protagonists damaged and brooding (but still have every woman falling all over them!). 😄

 

[ch1]

I’ve never thought of Claire as the author’s Mary Sue but I can see it.

I have thought Jaime was her own personal wet dream.  

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I was shocked that Claire did not tell Tom about Allan, but decided she decided to let him have some piece of mind, since he did after all save her. 

I wasn’t shocked. Likely Tom knew Alan was the one who killed Malva, but that was his son so he was willing to die to protect he and Claire. No need for Claire to tell him that Ian shot him (although Alan was attempting suicide) and they hid his body in an unmarked grave. 

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, jenn31 said:

And Brianna must be based on her daughter in real life. No waitressing for her. She had to make her an engineer! Heading a vast project no less. In the 70’s! Give me a break.

Or on another part of herself. Although she has said that Jamie is based on her husband, so you may be right. Does she have a son? Is he anything like Fergus? 😄

 

[shelen]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If they're going to do that though, they need to show us some sort of montage or quick time-lapse of scenery or a calendar or . . . something. Something to short-hand the fact that they are jumping ahead a few months. Maybe just a simple voice-over from Claire saying "after a few months travel we wound up here." Without context it seems like they're just beaming around like on Star Trek.

Point well taken.

[taanja]

On 7/7/2023 at 10:19 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Good to get the confirmation in the previouslies about the bank accounts. 

^^^ I was just going to say! It's like the show read my mind!

The actors who play Tom and Claire have some definite chemistry! maybe not sexual so much but wow! They play off one another beautifully! They make me believe which is saying something!

Bree and Roger haven't got the gold yet? What are they waiting for?

My knowledge of history of the revolutionary war is limited. Fort Ticonderoga. Hm? It sound familiar but I will have to google what the hell happened there!

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I understood that they wanted to savour the letters, & certainly since there is an end to them, they did not want to know if anything terrible happened? Or get to the end & be sad there is no more letters, assume they finally did die, because there is no more letters. But you are right the show is actually using them to tell the story…

I can fanwank that they skimmed through the envelope titles looking for anything drastic. From they way they're playing the stones now, they can go back anytime. 

[CountryGirl]

All I can say about this episode is find someone who looks at you like Tom looks at Claire (if you haven't already.) 😉

Mark Lewis made me fall in love with Tom Christie and who would have thunk it? And CB's facial expressions upon being bussed by him were simply priceless.

Elsewhere, grown-up Willie, pardon the pun, has really grown on me.

[Cdh20]

Country Girl, I always appreciate your gifs! 

[mythoughtis]

Tom really changed during his incarceration.  He would have never kissed Claire before. Nor sat at a table with a married woman with no one around.   I really don’t see him behaving as he did in this episode.    

William isn’t interested in Rachel for Rachel.  He’s going on the journey with them to try to get in touch with the soldier who is a double agent for the British. Although he may or may not have the messages any longer after losing his horse and trekking through the swamp

Bree and Roger are in 1980  not 1960.  No one treated me in 1980 the way Bree’s potential employer did.  Seriously - asking someone who doesn’t even work for you yet to get you coffee?   Women routinely worked in 1980.   I became a computer  programmer in 1981 and no one thought it odd 

 

[Salacious Kitty]

Rural Scotland may have been behind the times. 

[Cosmocrush]

4 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Bree and Roger are in 1980  not 1960.  No one treated me in 1980 the way Bree’s potential employer did.  Seriously - asking someone who doesn’t even work for you yet to get you coffee?   Women routinely worked in 1980.   I became a computer  programmer in 1981 and no one thought it odd.

Agree to disagree:  I work in a male dominated field and this crap was common.  It wasn’t until the mid to late 1990s that stuff was taken seriously.

[Cosmocrush]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:44 AM, CountryGirl said:

Elsewhere, grown-up Willie, pardon the pun, has really grown on me.

He is very pretty. 😉

[FnkyChkn34]

57 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Agree to disagree:  I work in a male dominated field and this crap was common.  It wasn’t until the mid to late 1990s that stuff was taken seriously.

Quote

Bree and Roger are in 1980  not 1960.  No one treated me in 1980 the way Bree’s potential employer did.  Seriously - asking someone who doesn’t even work for you yet to get you coffee?   Women routinely worked in 1980.   I became a computer  programmer in 1981 and no one thought it odd 

In my field, we've actually done some research and taken surveys on this.  It's still happening to this day, and more prevalent than most people realize or care to admit.  Women are still being mistaken for the secretary or paralegal all the time... but no, we're the lawyers now. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by FnkyChkn34

[Ziggy]

I have to know, was I the only one yelling at the tv when they were about to amputate Williams arm?

[DoctorAtomic]

15 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Although he may or may not have the messages any longer after losing his horse and trekking through the swamp

I thought he had the letters on his person. He was looking at them prior to the accident. I'm still calling that he's switching sides, maybe due to the content of the letters or when he meets this guy. 

 

[mary2013]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:31 PM, jenn31 said:

And Brianna must be based on her daughter in real life. No waitressing for her. She had to make her an engineer! Heading a vast project no less. In the 70’s! Give me a break.

I thought Brianna applied for the Plant Safety Inspector job.  Like Homer Simpson.

[Lola82]

17 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I have to know, was I the only one yelling at the tv when they were about to amputate Williams arm?

I was yelling when all the bile came out. Barf! I don’t know what’s harder to watch with this show - the rape scenes or the festering bloody close ups.

[mythoughtis]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought he had the letters on his person. He was looking at them prior to the accident. I'm still calling that he's switching sides, maybe due to the content of the letters or when he meets this guy. 

 

He did.  However  I thought he fell more than once, so I don’t know if they fell out or not.  

[DoctorAtomic]

Television would dictate we see what's in the letters. I think he still has them.

[tennisgurl]

I never thought thought that I would see Ian and William in a scene like that, it worked really well. Nice to get to know grown up Will a bit more, he seems like a decent person and he has certainly inherited the family prettiness. 

Speaking of family inheritance, Bree and Roger absolutely need to take what Jemmy said about a man on their property seriously, they know that their whole family is psycho bait! These poor people cant go five minutes without some awful thing happening to them, running into the local serial killer or angry mob, they need to get Jemmy away from this stranger yesterday. Even if they don't think its supernatural it makes sense that he would see a strange person as some kind of monster. I'm disappointed that we did a big time skip in the 20th century, I wanted to see more of them all getting used to being back in the future. Even for Bree and Roger that would be a big change, even more so for Jemmy who's only ever known the colonial era. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by tennisgurl