Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Joe]

Four times is a weird kind of achievement. I managed three once. The thing is, I noticed it in Western Australia first. When I caught myself doing it, I thought that I'd finally gone native. But now you're telling me that it isn't limited to WA?

[ABay]

Twice in the last week I've seen or heard "resolve" used weirdly. For example: "I wanted to bring it to resolve" and "there was no resolve of this conflict." WTF? Either rewrite the sentence to be correct or learn the word "resolution". One of the miscreants is a journalist and the other has a PhD. I weep for our culture.

[atomationage]

Miriam Margolyes trying to get will.i.am not to say "like":

 

[FormerMod-a1]

^ I loved that!  And I loved Will's crazy Michael Jackson story.  Heck, I enjoyed the whole episode.  I love Graham Norton.

[StatisticalOutlier]

5 hours ago, Joe said:

Four times is a weird kind of achievement. I managed three once. The thing is, I noticed it in Western Australia first. When I caught myself doing it, I thought that I'd finally gone native. But now you're telling me that it isn't limited to WA?

God, no.  It's all over House Hunters. 

Buyer: "How many bedrooms does this house  have?"  Realtor:  "This house actually has three bedrooms."

Buyer:  "When was this house built?"  Realtor:  "This house was actually built in 1989."

It drives me INSANE.  I've actually stopped watching some episodes because of it.  (See?  That's how "actually" should be used.)

On some other show I can't remember now, a woman said, "My mother actually died when I was six." 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

...On some other show I can't remember now, a woman said, "My mother actually died when I was six." 

When used correctly, should there always have been an alternate interpretation? 
For instance, "My mother actually died when I was 6, not when I was 7," (although the alternate may have been stated in an earlier conversation)?

[meep.meep]

See, these are the opposite of the people who say:  my mother died whenever I was 6

Really, they are just trying to get across that their mother died in 1992.

[Quof]

A friend used to say "the year I was married".  You might think she meant "In 1992, the year I got married..."  But she really meant "the twelve month period in which she was a married person." She said "At the reception, I just started to feel smothered and I knew it was a bad idea."

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

When used correctly, should there always have been an alternate interpretation? 
For instance, "My mother actually died when I was 6, not when I was 7," (although the alternate may have been stated in an earlier conversation)?

Right.  This didn't involve any sort of clarification.  It was just a statement that she died. 

Same with the house hunters.  The question is simply, "When was the house built?"  Not "Was the house built in 1988?" with a response of, "Actually, this house was built in 1989." 

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, Quof said:

A friend used to say "the year I was married".  You might think she meant "In 1992, the year I got married..."  But she really meant "the twelve month period in which she was a married person." She said "At the reception, I just started to feel smothered and I knew it was a bad idea."

It's always trickier than you think.  Sorry about your friend's marriage.  Longer than some.

[Rick Kitchen]

Just heard one of my pet peeves listening to the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. The reporter asked one of the athletes to talk about "the enormity of being here."  No, enormity does not mean bigness.

[Lola16]

On 8/1/2016 at 2:46 PM, shapeshifter said:

Maybe so, but I still remember my mother being offended by it's incorrectness when we moved to the Midwest in the 60s, which caused me on several occaisions to reply to, "Do you want to go with?" with, "With whom and where?" which is probably not a good way to make friends.

Ha. I hear that most often on those house hunting shows: The appliances come with.  It doesn't bother me in that context.

On 8/3/2016 at 11:02 AM, topanga said:

It reminds me of a phrase I hear in real life and on reality TV: "I was feeling some kinda way." Usually it's in the middle of a tragic or emotional situation, or maybe the person feels empathy or sympathy for another person's plight. I know (I think) the person is saying that she was feeling emotional or sad or angry. Then say what you mean, dammit! Use your words. I hate trying to guess what other people are feeling.

It gives me all the feels.

21 hours ago, Quof said:

A friend used to say "the year I was married".  You might think she meant "In 1992, the year I got married..."  But she really meant "the twelve month period in which she was a married person." She said "At the reception, I just started to feel smothered and I knew it was a bad idea."

The bad idea is being smothered?  Because that might be preferable to getting married.  :D

[legaleagle53]

On 8/4/2016 at 6:39 PM, Sandman87 said:

I just watched an American researcher who was being interviewed on the BBC News use the word "actually" 4 times in a single sentence: "So now, using this model, we can actually zoom in on what actually is in the dust that's actually protecting the children against the asthma and allergies, and actually affecting what we know now is the innate immune response." She actually should be forced to take actual remedial English before actually receiving any more actual research grants.

So what acceptable synonyms exist for the word that wouldn't sound stilted or unnatural?  Yes, the word gets overused (and I'm guilty of that as well), but the reason for that is that it's the only go-to word that people can think of that actually expresses the idea (see what I mean?).

[Bastet]

It's more often not that people can't think of a synonym, but that - like in the example above - "actually" is inserted where there's no need for it.  In the BBC example, all four uses of "actually" could be eliminated.  Three of them should be eliminated; "what actually is in the dust" could be left in and sound acceptable:

Quote

So now, using this model, we can actually zoom in on what actually is in the dust that's actually protecting the children against the asthma and allergies, and actually affecting what we know now is the innate immune response.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Bastet

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

It's more often not that people can't think of a synonym, but that - like in the example above - "actually" is inserted where there's no need for it.  In the BBC example, all four uses of "actually" could be eliminated.  Three of them should be eliminated; "what actually is in the dust" could be left in and sound acceptable:

I personally would keep the first use of the word ("we can actually zoom in on") and eliminate the other three as unnecessary.  The speaker is trying to emphasize that the model can do something that no previous model could do, which is to identify the unknown agent in the dust that is acting to prevent asthma and allergic reactions in children (which apparently was considered impossible -- hence the use of the other three "actually's" to emphasize that yes, those children are really being protected by something in the dust).  That said, the first "actually" is really all that's needed here.

[Sandman87]

All of them were unnecessary. It's not as if there were reason to disbelieve what she was saying.

[Bastet]

Sure, if the ability to zoom is what's new, that "actually" could be fine in a speaking style; with just a sentence to go on, I was thinking it was the ability to see what constituted the dust, but whatever is a development could earn an "actually" for emphasis without sounding weird. 

But all four could go, and most of them should go, which is the recurring problem with the over-abundance of "actually" in modern parlance -- people don't need to repeatedly emphasize that an action is surprising, make clear something is true, etc. and just come up short on synonyms, they litter their sentences with "actually" when there's no need for it or any other word with a similar meaning.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Bastet

[Sandman87]

A lovely sentence from a report about someone getting arrested after attempting to kidnap a couple of kids:
 "Now (mother's name) wants other parents to be wary of their children." Yes, fear your children!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

[Sandman87]

Good Morning America ran a story about the kid who died at a water park on a water-slide today. According to the report "The ride...is sending tubers down it at nearly 70 miles per hour." Those are some fast potatoes!

[Qoass]

I don't understand all these celebrities on game shows playing "for breast cancer".  Shouldn't they be playing for its prevention or cure?

[Bookish Jen]

34 minutes ago, Qoass said:

I don't understand all these celebrities on game shows playing "for breast cancer".  Shouldn't they be playing for its prevention or cure?

Or "breast cancer research."

[DittyDotDot]

42 minutes ago, Qoass said:

I don't understand all these celebrities on game shows playing "for breast cancer".  Shouldn't they be playing for its prevention or cure?

Ha! We joke in our office about a local organization that used to be called "Center for Family Violence." They've since changed the name to "Violence Prevention Center" to better reflect what they're all about.

[rur]

17 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Ha! We joke in our office about a local organization that used to be called "Center for Family Violence." They've since changed the name to "Violence Prevention Center" to better reflect what they're all about.

We used to make similar jokes about a local town that held a "Manatee Road Race." We could never figure out why  they would put those gentle sea beasts on hot pavement. 

[backformore]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 2:25 PM, orza said:

I react the same way to the trendy phrase "I can't even." I'm always tempted to ask "You can't even what? Finish a sentence?" but I don't .

The first few times I encountered that phrase, it was "I can't even with her."   And I had no idea what the hell it was supposed to mean.

Then I heard this joke:

Why do teenage girls always travel in groups of 3, 5 or 7?

Because they literally can't even.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, backformore said:

The first few times I encountered that phrase, it was "I can't even with her."   And I had no idea what the hell it was supposed to mean.

Then I heard this joke:

Why do teenage girls always travel in groups of 3, 5 or 7?

Because they literally can't even.

*steals*

[Haleth]

Literally.

[Qoass]

I just saw a report about something that happened on Boston "Commons".  There's only one Boston Common.  

[mojito]

Qoass, now you've started it. And I'll continue.

Safety deposit box

[Sandman87]

People need places to deposit their safeties.

[Ohwell]

A box to deposit valuables for safety; hence, safety deposit box.

[Lola16]

In the episode description for a bedroom make-over on "At Home with Lisa Quinn", the decor was referred to as "sudo Moroccan".  Hello Phil Collins?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

[Sandman87]

You also can't run through a campground because everyone there is on edge. It's a tents situation.

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 8/3/2016 at 11:02 AM, topanga said:

It reminds me of a phrase I hear in real life and on reality TV: "I was feeling some kinda way." Usually it's in the middle of a tragic or emotional situation, or maybe the person feels empathy or sympathy for another person's plight. I know (I think) the person is saying that she was feeling emotional or sad or angry. Then say what you mean, dammit! Use your words. I hate trying to guess what other people are feeling.

 

On 8/3/2016 at 1:18 PM, DangerousMinds said:

I know! What the fuck does that mean, exactly? What kind of way??

Lol!!  There is no exactly, it means the speaker is feeling some emotion that is completely inarticulable.   Not that it can't be described but that the description won't do it justice.    Andplusalso, it's context specific.   I just got a letter from the IRS, I'm being audited - I feel some type of way = fucked up, scared, anxious and jittery.    I just saw the first boy I ever loved at my high school reunion - I feel some type of way = nostalgic, lovely, young again and winsome.    Sorry if that made it worse ;)

[TaraS1]

On 8/20/2016 at 8:34 PM, Sandman87 said:

You also can't run through a campground because everyone there is on edge. It's a tents situation.

Which reminds me of a little joke from the show Wings that still cracks me up:

A man goes to see his psychiatrist and tells him he keeps having incredibly vivid dreams.
Man:  One night, I dream I'm a wigwam.  The next night, I'm a teepee.  I'm a wigwam, I'm a teepee...I'm a wigwam, I'm a teepee...                                                   Doctor:  The problem is, you're too tense.

[DangerousMinds]

NM

20 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

 

Lol!!  There is no exactly, it means the speaker is feeling some emotion that is completely inarticulable.   Not that it can't be described but that the description won't do it justice.    Andplusalso, it's context specific.   I just got a letter from the IRS, I'm being audited - I feel some type of way = fucked up, scared, anxious and jittery.    I just saw the first boy I ever loved at my high school reunion - I feel some type of way = nostalgic, lovely, young again and winsome.    Sorry if that made it worse ;)

Yep, made it worse.:)

Edited August 26, 2016 by DangerousMinds

[ZaldamoWilder]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

NM

Yep, made it worse.:)

LOL!!!  Sorry.

[StatisticalOutlier]

In a Frontline documentary on PBS about the Iran nuclear agreement, David Remnick (editor of The New Yorker) was talking about an election that didn't turn out the way certain people expected, and he said, "They had the champagne bottles metaphorically on ice."  Well done.  (Never mind that there probably were champagne bottles literally on ice.)

However, I have reported here before that in an interview on Fresh Air on NPR, Remnick said, "for my wife and I."  And I don't think this was just a case of his bringing his "A" game to TV. 

It makes me sad because it appears we've already lost the literally vs. metaphorically battle, so his Frontline performance was nice but not necessarily important, while I still cling to the hope that this heinous use of "I" instead of "me" everywhere can somehow be stopped. 

[topanga]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

It makes me sad because it appears we've already lost the literally vs. metaphorically battle, so his Frontline performance was nice but not necessarily important, while I still cling to the hope that this heinous use of "I" instead of "me" everywhere can somehow be stopped. 

The thing is, people make the "my wife and I" mistake because they're trying hard to sound intelligent and grammatically correct. And while I can forgive the error (slightly) when a person says it during an interview, there's no excuse for it in TV and in movies. If there are other writers, directors, producers, and actors who hear that error, and none of them correct it, then they're just as culpable as the writer who committed the original sin. 

[AimingforYoko]

General rule of thumb, if the phrase precedes the verb, it's "my wife and I", if it follows, it's "my wife and me". There are exceptions of course, the most notable being if the verb is a form of 'to be'. That's why the the proper way to answer the question, "Is this so-and-so?" is "This is (s)he."

[shapeshifter]

In the first 3 paragraphs of a local obit:

Quote

...High School is mourning the loss of...a beloved choral teacher whose compassion for music inspired students and fellow teachers alike....

"He wa a terrific musician and loved music and his compassion for it was contagious,"...

I guess because the writer used the words "passion" and "passionate" 3 times in the remaing 3 half columns, there had originally been 5 uses of the word, and the editor said to change half of them. 

[3pwood]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

... I guess because the writer used the words "passion" and "passionate" 3 times in the remaing 3 half columns, there had originally been 5 uses of the word, and the editor said to change half of them. 

Your local paper has an editor?  You must live in a very large city (the NY Times may still employ a few editors) or a very tiny one (where the publisher's mom proofreads the drafts submitted by her niece the reporter).

[meep.meep]

On 9/5/2016 at 11:21 AM, AimingforYoko said:

General rule of thumb, if the phrase precedes the verb, it's "my wife and I", if it follows, it's "my wife and me". There are exceptions of course, the most notable being if the verb is a form of 'to be'. That's why the the proper way to answer the question, "Is this so-and-so?" is "This is (s)he."

No, the proper way to answer that question is "yes."  If your day has been particularly hard, "yup" is also accepted.  If your day has been exceptionally hard (like a normal day), then the proper way to answer is "Who wants to know?"

Trust me, if in the course of normal conversation, I'm expected to notice that the phrase is preceding the verb, then I'm going to screw up occasionally.

[backformore]

A new trend I've been noticing on numerous shows is beginning a sentence with "I mean."   It's the new "um." 

[Sandman87]

A couple of examples on the news tonight, both from the same anchor:

"CalFire has some advice for residents who are returning back to their homes." I guess those who are returning away don't need advice.

"Automotive sparks is a leading cause of wildfires." Yes they is.

[atomationage]

On 7/25/2014 at 11:12 AM, candall said:

I just saw Nancy Grace fuming with righteous indignation (for a change.)  She said:

 

"Dr. Phil, this crime LITERALLY makes my blood boil!"

 

I waited, but the top of her head did not blow off

For some reason, the first post in some of these threads comes up in my activity stream with the new ones.  I happened to notice that this one was hilarious and decided to repost it. 

[ABay]

The news crawl on the local news informed me that Ryan Locate has been suspended for 10 months. Gosh, I hope it wasn't for something he did in Irag, a country I only learned existed through a previous news crawl.

Does anyone know who supplies those crawls? At least 2 local stations, affiliates of different networks, have the same one. Apparently, no one ever proof reads them or looks at them on screen and realizes they made a typo because they're never corrected.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ABay

[Sandman87]

11 hours ago, ABay said:

Gosh, I hope it wasn't for something he did in Irag, a country I only learned existed through a previous news crawl.

Isn't Irag that little country next to Grease?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

Isn't Irag that little country next to Grease?

I thought Grease was the word.