All Episodes Discussion

UniqBlue69 · March 2

Was there a new episode last night? Nothing has been added to peacock. This goes perfectly with my Saturday morning cup o' joe!

Edited March 2 by UniqBlue69

AManfred · March 2

17 minutes ago, UniqBlue69 said:

Was there a new episode last night? Nothing has been added to peacock. This goes perfectly with my Saturday morning cup o' joe!

Dulos case (again) with new info following his girlfriend's conviction this week. Instant delete from me. At least I have last night's 20/20 to watch...

iMonrey · March 2

I know I've seen "A Life Interrupted" before because I recognized the husband immediately. I didn't remember much about the story, though. Was the "new" information that his girlfriend was finally convicted?

Interesting that in his suicide note, Fotis insisted his girlfriend and his attorney were both innocent. Um . . . if you're innocent, then how do you know they're innocent? The only way you can be positive they had no involvement is if you yourself are the perpetrator.

I got a chuckle out of the best friend describing Jennifer as "an intellectual version of Cindy Crawford." Then imagining Cindy Crawford watching this and going "Hey!"

Poor Jennifer, I don't suppose they will ever find her body.

Mondrianyone · March 2

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Poor Jennifer, I don't suppose they will ever find her body.

With Dulos having been a builder, he obviously had access to all sorts of bulldozers and digging equipment. I'm assuming the police have checked any sites he was working on, but he could've buried her anywhere.

He definitely traded down with that girlfriend.

Ohmo · March 3

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Interesting that in his suicide note, Fotis insisted his girlfriend and his attorney were both innocent. Um . . . if you're innocent, then how do you know they're innocent? The only way you can be positive they had no involvement is if you yourself are the perpetrator.

That was mentioned in the episode, and yes, the new information was that Michelle was convicted on all counts

Source: A breakdown of the charges Michelle Troconis has been found guilty of

Quote

Troconis sobbed as the guilty verdicts were read.

She was found guilty of the following charges:

Count 1: Conspiracy to commit murder

Count 2: Conspiracy to commit tampering with physical evidence (May 24, 2019 events)

Count 3: Tampering with physical evidence (May 24, 2019 events)

Count 4: Conspiracy to commit tampering with physical evidence (May 29, 2019 events)

Count 5: Tampering with physical evidence (May 29, 2019 events)

Count 6: Second-degree hindering prosecution

Here's a breakdown of how much time in prison each charge carries.

Conspiracy to commit murder

Class B felony

Up to 20 years in prison

Tampering with physical evidence

Found guilty on two counts, relating to May 24 and May 29, 2019 events

Class D felony

Up to 5 years in prison

Hindering prosecution, second-degree

Class C felony

Up to 10 years in prison

Conspiracy to commit tampering with evidence

Found guilty on two counts, relating to May 24 and May 29, 2019 events

Class D felony

Up to 5 years in prison

Edited March 3 by Ohmo

MooCat Pretzel · March 3

I am going to have to break up with Dateline if this is what they do now—recycle the same stories over and over again just to add 5 minutes of new content to it. Remember when they used to tell the whole story all the way through the trial at the end?! Even if there is an update to the case, just put it on the Dateline website. Please stop with telling the same tales and get back to shedding light on stories we might not have heard about.

Edited March 3 by MooCat Pretzel

iMonrey · March 3

18 minutes ago, MooCat Pretzel said:

I am going to have to break up with Dateline is this is what they do now—recycle the same stories over and over again just to add 5 minutes of new content to it.

They're running out of murderers!

TVbitch · March 3

It's like Dateline thinks we only care about these big splashy headline making cases. Often times the lesser known and more subtle cases, where the people are just seemingly everyday people, are even more fascinating to me because it's like those people could be my neighbors.

angeluul · March 4

19 hours ago, MooCat Pretzel said:

I am going to have to break up with Dateline if this is what they do now—recycle the same stories over and over again just to add 5 minutes of new content to it. Remember when they used to tell the whole story all the way through the trial at the end?! Even if there is an update to the case, just put it on the Dateline website. Please stop with telling the same tales and get back to shedding light on stories we might not have heard about.

I've been going through the backlog of "old" Dateline episodes on Peacock, and they actually used to update existing episodes from past seasons just like they do now - but they didn't market them as new. For example: you're watching an episode that originally aired in 2011 i.e. 10 seasons ago, and there's a couple of minutes with new footage and voiceover added. Again, similar to how they're doing that now, but they don't call them new episodes and put them in the current season.

And yes, I feel like they're focussing too much on prominent cases. Happens too often in the current true crime media landscape (goes for YouTube as well). That's why Cold Justice (at least where I'm at - season 3) has been a real refreshing show for me.

Pi237 · March 4

They also have a show called Dateline: Unforgettable where they revisit previously aired episodes.

All of these shows are getting to be a chore to get through because they drag the hell out of them to put in more commercial breaks. It’s like: info with cliffhanger question-dozens of commercials-come back and re-say everything that was said before the commercials-maybe two new sentences-cliffhanger question-dozens more commercials rinse/repeat.

iMonrey · March 4

4 hours ago, Pi237 said:

All of these shows are getting to be a chore to get through because they drag the hell out of them to put in more commercial breaks. It’s like: info with cliffhanger question-dozens of commercials-come back and re-say everything that was said before the commercials-maybe two new sentences-cliffhanger question-dozens more commercials rinse/repeat.

Oh, I absolutely cannot watch Dateline live, I have to record it so I can ff thru the commercials. They are interminable. I think without commercials you can get through it in about an hour or so.

pdlinda · March 5

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, I absolutely cannot watch Dateline live, I have to record it so I can ff thru the commercials. They are interminable. I think without commercials you can get through it in about an hour or so.

I watch NO LIVE shows...NONE! That's why I pay for cable and have a DVR so I can FF through the INTERMINABLE COMMERCIALS!

There were a few times I missed recording Dateline so I tried seeing it the next day on "ON DEMAND." WHAT A MISTAKE! I tried to access the FF and, whoops, I got a notification that function was not operative for that show!

That was the first and last time I ever accessed ON DEMAND!

12catcrazy · March 5

15 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I watch NO LIVE shows...NONE! That's why I pay for cable and have a DVR so I can FF through the INTERMINABLE COMMERCIALS!

There were a few times I missed recording Dateline so I tried seeing it the next day on "ON DEMAND." WHAT A MISTAKE! I tried to access the FF and, whoops, I got a notification that function was not operative for that show!

That was the first and last time I ever accessed ON DEMAND!

Yeah, we've done this at home also and so not worth it to sit through a million commercials. The only shows we watch in real time are on PBS, HBO, or TCM so we don't have to deal with endless commercials.

The Fotis case - I was kind of surprised that Michelle got convicted on all of the charges. There is no doubt in my mind that she knew about the murder after the fact and was an accessory in helping to cover it up but I still wonder about her actually knowing Fotis was going to kill his wife before he did it. I also kept thinking that the prosecution was hoping that she'd cut a deal and lead them to Jennifer's body but at this stage, she probably really doesn't know where Fotis buried her. My guess is that she is under some construction site or maybe dumped in some body of water. If they ever find her body, it will be by accident. Fotis killing himself was another way he had "control" and was also a big F You to his wife's family by never giving them closure in having her body.

pdlinda · March 5

4 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

My guess is that she is under some construction site or maybe dumped in some body of water. If they ever find her body, it will be by accident.

I think Fotis dismembered or burned Jennifer's body, threw it in a # of garbage bags and threw it in some dumpster. They only got 1 camera shot of him on Albany Ave in West Hartford but I think he disposed of her body in a different location where his phone was not involved.

As for Michelle, I think her lawyer was grossly deficient. He had no "presence" presenting her case before a jury and was a poor strategist. I think if he was more compelling and savvy, he would have been able to work out a "plea deal" for her with the prosecutor to a lesser charge(stressing the points you made about her involvement) and been able to convince her to take it. I think she probably would have served 10 yrs under those circumstances. In that way, her parents and other family would have been spared the ENORMOUS COST of funding the trial ($$$ squandered by her attorney, IMO) and the ADDITIONAL COSTS of funding her appeal (maybe on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel).

Those types of appeals usually have very little chance of success.

Michelle failed miserably in so many of her choices in life. She will now have a chance to perhaps reflect how she might have handled things differently. That reflection, however, will, IMO, take place behind bars.

12catcrazy · March 9

Anybody watch last night's Dateline? How very sad a story - the poor victim had been dating his new girlfriend for such a short period of time and got murdered because she had an obsessed ex.

I'm still almost flabbergasted about how much in denial the murderer's parents are in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it was there son on the video. Even the guy's wife obviously realized it was him on the video. I'm glad that she finally got her life together and didn't give him an alibi. And I believe her 100% when she said that she had been getting pressure from both her husband AND his parents to give him that alibi. I think that the charge that she was trying to essentially "blackmail" him was bullshit. The guy was nothing but a cold-blooded murderer and I hope that he spends the rest of his life behind bars.

TVbitch · March 10

Tragic. This is why I always told my brothers to break up with a woman immediately if they have a crazy ex or weird shit starts happening. It is more common than one thinks. Doesn't often end in murder, but no one needs to suffer that over someone they just met.

Also, Dateline is on to us and our fast-forwarding, cuz it looks like they no longer announce "coming up...." before commercials, which is when I hit the FF until the next segment. Now they just subtley blend it in! 😖

badgerwoman · March 10

32 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

I'm still almost flabbergasted about how much in denial the murderer's parents are in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it was there son on the video. Even the guy's wife obviously realized it was him on the video.

And even clearer when they showed the two hands in pocket stances. I wonder if they ever talked to his son about his obsessiveness. or how they explain it to themselves.

Peanut6711 · March 10

16 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Anybody watch last night's Dateline? How very sad a story - the poor victim had been dating his new girlfriend for such a short period of time and got murdered because she had an obsessed ex.

I'm still almost flabbergasted about how much in denial the murderer's parents are in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it was there son on the video. Even the guy's wife obviously realized it was him on the video. I'm glad that she finally got her life together and didn't give him an alibi. And I believe her 100% when she said that she had been getting pressure from both her husband AND his parents to give him that alibi. I think that the charge that she was trying to essentially "blackmail" him was bullshit. The guy was nothing but a cold-blooded murderer and I hope that he spends the rest of his life behind bars.

Agree, the parents had their heads so far buried in the sand they weren't seeing what was right in front of them. They needed a wakeup call. Their son was a real piece of crap.

16 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Tragic. This is why I always told my brothers to break up with a woman immediately if they have a crazy ex or weird shit starts happening. It is more common than one thinks. Doesn't often end in murder, but no one needs to suffer that over someone they just met.

Wise advice! If only the firefighter would have looked closer into the weird messages he got and realized the attempts on his life were a real threat/indicator of what was to come.

UsernameFatigue · March 10

I was initially annoyed at the wife Michelle for giving her husband an alibi. But then when she talked about how harassing her inlaws were, and they showed the delusional parents I could see how she was pretty much tormented by both her husband and his family. It does make me wonder though, if there had been no Covid to delay the trail, if he would have gotten off as wife Michelle may have not have had a change of heart yet.

I was really wishing that when Dennis was interviewing the parents and they showed the two pictures side by side, Dennis had said "It is obviously the same person". Though his face certainly said that.

Not that I think it would have saved the guy, but I do wonder why girlfriend Jennifer was still in touch with her ex, right up to phoning him to find out who to request a wellness check. Isn't how one would do that common sense? Doesn't really seem like she was over the guy, despite supposedly breaking up with him because he wouldn't leave his wife.

The one I feel sorry for is the daughter. I wonder if she sees her grandparents still? Seems like they would be claiming her father's innocence and likely badmouthing her mother. Glad though that they didn't really talk about her, and glad they didn't interview her.

Edited March 12 by UsernameFatigue

Irlandesa · March 10

16 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

It does make me wonder though, if there had been no Covid to delay the trail, if he would have gotten off as wife Michelle may have not have had a change of heart yet.

I think it'd depend on whether or not the prosecution opted to go to trial or not. They did seem to be losing evidence.

I will say that they were unclear about how much they pushed her. Prosecutors might have met with her more often to see if she still stuck with her alibi which may have led to her cracking a bit. And she might have gotten cold feet once she realized she would have to testify to the alibi under oath.

UsernameFatigue · March 10

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think it'd depend on whether or not the prosecution opted to go to trial or not. They did seem to be losing evidence.

I will say that they were unclear about how much they pushed her. Prosecutors might have met with her more often to see if she still stuck with her alibi which may have led to her cracking a bit. And she might have gotten cold feet once she realized she would have to testify to the alibi under oath.

I got the feeling that she may have thought that her marriage could be saved, and over the few years realized that it couldn't. Really she is lucky that she wasn't charged with obstruction, as that is what she was doing.

iMonrey · March 10

23 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I'm still almost flabbergasted about how much in denial the murderer's parents are in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it was there son on the video.

The little details they kept insisting proved it wasn't their son were so easily explained by the poor quality of the grainy video. Pointing out bald spots and nose breaks and the like - this was a very low res video shot from a high angle. In a way, their insistence both backs up Jenn's claim that they pressured her to lie and suggests how Daniel turned out to be such a sociopath in the first place.

Edited March 10 by iMonrey

Vivigirl10 · March 11

On 3/9/2024 at 5:46 PM, 12catcrazy said:

Anybody watch last night's Dateline? How very sad a story - the poor victim had been dating his new girlfriend for such a short period of time and got murdered because she had an obsessed ex.

I'm still almost flabbergasted about how much in denial the murderer's parents are in.

Every victim is sympathetic to some degree but oh my, this poor guy! He sounded like such an amazing young man, just living his life, on the verge of doing some great things and reaching major goals when he was just snuffed out. Just a helpless bystander to drama he had nothing to do with at all.

Those parents took "but he's a good boy" to another level! I'm always sorry when ignorant fools like that are even given camera time to defend their obviously guilty as hell offspring. Their behavior as shown here likely had something to do with their son ending up a psychopath throwing the ultimate temper tantrum when he didn't get what he wanted.

20 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I was really wishing that when Dennis was interviewing the parents and they showed the two pictures side by side, Dennis had said "It is obviously the same person". Though his face certainly said that.

Me too! When they both kept repeating, "look at that! Look at that! It's so obviously not the same person!" When anyone with two eyes can see it obviously was the same person. Dennis was pulling faces but I too wish he had just come out and said it.

iMonrey · March 11

I have to think both the victim and the new girlfriend had to suspect it was the ex boyfriend sending those text messages. I mean, who else would send something like that telling him to stay away, that she was no good, etc.? Even if he didn't know about Daniel, Jenn certainly did and just played dumb.

Peanut6711 · March 12

On 3/10/2024 at 2:00 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

Not that I think it would have saved the guy, but I do wonder why girlfriend Michelle was still in touch with her ex, right up to phoning him to find out who to request a wellness check. Isn't how one would do that common sense? Doesn't really seem like she was over the guy, despite supposedly breaking up with him because he wouldn't leave his wife.

I wondered too whether she wasn't a little too attached still to him as well. It sure did seem like she needed to put more distance between them. I'm assuming she didn't cut him off completely because they were childhood friends and had a history going back before they got romantically involved.

FYI, both girlfriend and wife were named Jenn. Michelle was the convicted girlfriend the week before.

On 3/10/2024 at 5:53 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

I got the feeling that she may have thought that her marriage could be saved, and over the few years realized that it couldn't. Really she is lucky that she wasn't charged with obstruction, as that is what she was doing.

I got the impression that she sure worded things carefully in an attempt to avoid obstruction charges from her previous statements. I can't remember her exact words, but I kept thinking that she was sure skirting an outright admission of lying.

UsernameFatigue · March 12

4 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

I wondered too whether she wasn't a little too attached still to him as well. It sure did seem like she needed to put more distance between them. I'm assuming she didn't cut him off completely because they were childhood friends and had a history going back before they got romantically involved.

FYI, both girlfriend and wife were named Jenn. Michelle was the convicted girlfriend the week before.

I got the impression that she sure worded things carefully in an attempt to avoid obstruction charges from her previous statements. I can't remember her exact words, but I kept thinking that she was sure skirting an outright admission of lying.

Thank you for the reminder of the names! You'd think that with both women being named Jenn, it would be easy to keep straight!

I agree that wife Jenn was wording things carefully. I didn't buy her explanation that she thought he was in bed with her, and then over time questioned her memory of that night. Na Jenn, you lied (whether due to pressure or whatever) and then you eventually came clean.

MsJamieDornan · March 12

On 3/10/2024 at 1:00 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

Not that I think it would have saved the guy, but I do wonder why girlfriend Jennifer was still in touch with her ex,

I had creepy feelings about her. She might not have been a squeaky clean as she wanted us to believe. Sorry, its hard to explain.

iMonrey · March 13

On 3/12/2024 at 5:32 AM, MsJamieDornan said:

I had creepy feelings about her. She might not have been a squeaky clean as she wanted us to believe. Sorry, its hard to explain.

No, I get it. At that point she already knew he had lied to her about being divorced from his wife and where he was living, and still she called him to ask how to do a welfare check? As if she couldn't just call the police station directly and ask them? It doesn't add up.

On 3/12/2024 at 12:11 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I agree that wife Jenn was wording things carefully. I didn't buy her explanation that she thought he was in bed with her, and then over time questioned her memory of that night. Na Jenn, you lied (whether due to pressure or whatever) and then you eventually came clean.

I kind of understood when she said she didn't want her kids to grow up knowing their father was a murderer and having to live with that. That really is an awful thing for a kid. It was interesting they showed her older daughter in a couple of shots without interviewing her. I assume she discussed the situation with her, and maybe her younger child too, before finally coming clean to the authorities.

JudyObscure · March 13

On 3/10/2024 at 5:53 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

I got the feeling that she may have thought that her marriage could be saved, and over the few years realized that it couldn't. Really she is lucky that she wasn't charged with obstruction, as that is what she was doing.

She even admitted that getting a good job and knowing she could support herself entered into her decision to finally tell the truth.

On 3/12/2024 at 6:32 AM, MsJamieDornan said:

I had creepy feelings about her [girlfriend Jennifer]. She might not have been a squeaky clean as she wanted us to believe. Sorry, its hard to explain.

She wasn't at all squeaky clean. Dating a married man with children, trying to get him to leave his family, staying in touch with him, getting Hickey involved without telling him the whole serious situation.

Both women were pretty bad.

Now for my pet peeve! Quit acting like being called a victim is worse than being called a drug dealing truck stop whore!

Nobody needs to feel ashamed of being a victim whether they ultimately survived, died from the attack, or are a family member, You are a victim of crime and it is the perpetrator who should be ashamed.

rlc · March 14

On 3/3/2024 at 11:48 AM, MooCat Pretzel said:

I am going to have to break up with Dateline if this is what they do now—recycle the same stories over and over again just to add 5 minutes of new content to it. Remember when they used to tell the whole story all the way through the trial at the end?! Even if there is an update to the case, just put it on the Dateline website. Please stop with telling the same tales and get back to shedding light on stories we might not have heard about.

Normally I delete these recycled episodes, but I knew Jennifer Dulos when she was Jenny Farber, so I watch all of these episodes out of respect for Jenny and her family.

iMonrey · March 16

Deadly Swap: Twist! It wasn't the husband for a change, it was his mother! I kind of suspected it the first time they mentioned Joanna, they made a point of being very specific about how she didn't get along with Heather then just dropped it until they circled around back to her.

Man that woman had a shitload of guns. The evidence against her was so overwhelming this time even her defense attorney declined to be on the show to plead her case, LOL. No fool he/she.

Still, I thought Heather's new boyfriend was awfully glib when the police brought him in for an interview. For someone who claimed to be in love with Heather he didn't seem to be the least bit distraught over her murder.

LakeGal · March 16

I don't know why it took them so long to realize it was a woman. I immediately thought it was a women when they kept saying it was a small slight man.

Irlandesa · March 16

On 3/16/2024 at 10:53 AM, iMonrey said:

Deadly Swap: Twist! It wasn't the husband for a change, it was his mother! I kind of suspected it the first time they mentioned Joanna, they made a point of being very specific about how she didn't get along with Heather then just dropped it until they circled around back to her.

I thought for sure it was the girlfriend when I saw her because she looked thin and seemed like she could have been the figure in the security feed. But then their alibis cleared and we learned more about Joanna. (I guess the son could still have been involved but I don't think he would have caved about his mom if he were. ) I wonder if the son even fought for custody or if there just wasn't any money left once the mother needed to put up a defense*.

*I am a little surprised they got a conviction. The evidence felt rather flimsy.

On 3/16/2024 at 10:53 AM, iMonrey said:

Still, I thought Heather's new boyfriend was awfully glib when the police brought him in for an interview. For someone who claimed to be in love with Heather he didn't seem to be the least bit distraught over her murder.

He seemed more upset in the Dateline interview he did years later. But all we get is a quick snapshot of the interviews and he might have been numb or felt in control during that moment. Not everyone cries a lot. I think I've said before that I don't and I hope I'm never suspected of murder on Dateline because you'd all declare me guilty because of how unusually I react to death. Seriously, I think I cried once, alone, right after my dad died and never again and had to control myself from not laughing out loud during my uncle's funeral when everyone else was crying.

I'm a psychopath, y'all, just not one inclined to murder.

Edited March 19 by Irlandesa

Annber03 · March 16

I've seen this case covered on other shows before, so I knew the twist ahead of time :p. But yeah, I agree there was a lot that could've given away that it wasn't a man right off the bat. The nature of the murder alone could've been a big tip off -based off what we've seen about these kinds of cases on many other true crime shows, if a man had shot her in public like that, he may not have stopped at her. There's a reason most mass shooters are male, after all, let's just put it that way. Women tend to be much more personal and direct with their murders.

Obviously that's not a hard and fast rule, of course, there's examples to the contrary on both ends, but yeah, I do think that could've been a factor for police to consider, too.

I just keep thinking about those witnesses who saw the murder go down. Especially that eighteen year old girl - here she is, out for an afternoon with her family, she makes a funny little crack about someone's odd-looking moustache, and the next thing you know, she's witnessing a cold-blooded murder. I can't imagine how one even begins to process seeing something so horrific like that. I'm glad these witnesses were able to do their part to help, but damn, I feel for them, too, along with that poor little toddler. I can't imagine how incredibly cold one has to be to kill somebody right in front of a young child like that.

Ohmo · March 16

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

*I am a little surprised they got a conviction. The evidence felt rather flimsy.

I think the jury handled it correctly. Heather was killed. Someone did it. It wasn't some random crime of opportunity. The witnesses saw the crime and some had the impression that Heather knew her killer. That puts the case within the 12 people who knew about the swap. Once the "killer-for-hire" scenario doesn't pan out with anyone, I didn't think they needed a ton of evidence because they weren't dealing with more than a dozen people.

Heather being targeted was a piece of evidence. Heather being targeted at that location was another piece of evidence. I like juries who can discern reasonable doubt (or lack thereof) within the constraints of the scenario. Johanna knew where and when, and her truck placed her there. Within that group of 12 people, there's not reasonable doubt (in my opinion) that could have acquitted Johanna. A random crime in a parking lot is another matter, but that wasn't the case here.

Johanna was also cold in the fact that she left Carson there. This little boy that she actually killed for was left in the car because she knew walking away with a baby would be noticeable.

Annber03 · March 16

50 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Johanna was also cold in the fact that she left Carson there. This little boy that she actually killed for was left in the car because she knew walking away with a baby would be noticeable.

Which just further proves her "I'm doing this for the child!" argument is total bullshit, as is any instance where someone commits murder in the hopes of getting custody of a child. If one really, genuinely cares about the kid they want custody of, like they claim to, they won't pull shit like this. These kinds of "murder for custody" stories have nothing to do with the children and everything to do with the murderer's twisted need for control.

To say nothing of how killing someone just further proves why Johanna should never have custody in the first place, and going to jail automatically means she never WILL get that custody she wanted so badly, so...great planning, you absolute idiot!

Lsk02 · March 16

I was so sad for Heather’s dad, and her son, losing their wife and grandmother so soon after everything was finally as “normal” as it could be for all of them. I’m really wondering how the grandparents managed to get full custody when it seemed definite that the father wasn’t involved in the murder. I admire that grandfather so much, in the interview he really said only positive things about his grandson’s father, and refused to give Dennis any information about what sounds like some bad situations between his daughter and her husband. I have to think that was for his grandson’s benefit, to not speak ill of his father.

This one just really hit me harder than most. This poor 25 year old mother, murdered by her mother in law front of her baby at Target, of all places. What a terrible tragedy.

ridethemaverick · March 17

The son really said it best in that interview once he realized it was his mother. "Why would she do this? It's not taking care of me. My son's gonna have a screwed up life with his mother dead and his grandmother being the murderer."

It's like these custody killers completely miss and/or block out that part of it. Same for the Adelsons from a few weeks back. I'm sure most of them lack empathy so perhaps they simply can't imagine the children feeling pain from the loss. Sick and twisted, the lot of them.

Edited March 17 by ridethemaverick

Peanut6711 · March 17

I thought it was ironic when the co-worker testified about how Johanna talked about the elements of a perfect murder and one was driving a nondescript vehicle, which she thought she had, except that post-market detail on her truck stood out to a witness familiar with cars. Like of all the people to notice her vehicle, the trucker was thankfully one who picked up that detail and could make the identification.

TVbitch · March 17

Ah, just when I was about to be so impressed with the husband actually accepting that his mother did it, being honest with the police, and wanting to help the investigation, he back tracks later. Maybe he was just destroyed by the whole thing, and couldn't face it. The fact that all his mother could say when he cried out "Mom, it was you!" was "is that what you told them?" spoke volumes. I'm sure growing up with that woman he learned to be controlled by her.

iMonrey · March 17

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

*I am a little surprised they got a conviction. The evidence felt rather flimsy.

I thought it was a fairly strong case. The witness who identified Joanna's truck was key. There were a lot of little things that piled up after that, like the former co-worker who testified how Joanna described her perfect murder scenario that matched Heather's murder. And I think once the jury saw the surveillance footage and the artist's rendering that was enough.

Irlandesa · March 17

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Ah, just when I was about to be so impressed with the husband actually accepting that his mother did it, being honest with the police, and wanting to help the investigation, he back tracks later. Maybe he was just destroyed by the whole thing, and couldn't face it.

Based on the way they described how the grandmother tried to be the mother to her son's child, she struck me as quite overbearing. The daughter-in-law likely pushed back because that's not the way she grew up but the son probably had years of conforming to her desires. Once he left the police station after the confrontation, she could work on him.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The witness who identified Joanna's truck was key.

Yeah but it's not like it was a license plate. It was an after market effect which I'm sure wasn't exclusive to her truck. And they drove past her house and said to the guy "do you recognize any vehicles?" I think it would have been better to show him a few pictures of similar looking trucks and have him point it out.

iMonrey · March 19

On 3/17/2024 at 12:21 PM, Irlandesa said:

Yeah but it's not like it was a license plate. It was an after market effect which I'm sure wasn't exclusive to her truck.

Not exclusive but too distinctive to be coincidence. When someone just happens to have the same truck the killer was spotted driving and just happens to have a motive and just happens to match the description, well, that's a lot of happens!

GiandujaPie · March 20

I've seen that case on Friday on another show but can't remember which one. Pretty brazen of the mother-in-law to just shoot her in the parking lot in full view of so many people, including the baby. In a place like Georgia where so many people have guns, nobody tried to stop her as she walked away?

iMonrey · March 23

"A Girl named Egypt." Another repeat, why does my DVR think it's new? I remembered it almost instantly, that the neighbors were pot growers and the killers went into the wrong apartment.

This could have been a half hour. 90 minutes of red herrings about the boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend and the brother. An entire segment devoted to how a beer was named after Egypt. You're running out of content, Dateline!

Brother's girlfriend Lindsay was the real hero here going after the local police and getting the case moved to state police. It's a wonder if the local police aren't sued for malpractice.

Weird they kept showing the house with Halloween decorations when the crime took place in June.

JudyObscure · March 23

On 3/20/2024 at 4:09 PM, GiandujaPie said:

I've seen that case on Friday on another show but can't remember which one. Pretty brazen of the mother-in-law to just shoot her in the parking lot in full view of so many people, including the baby. In a place like Georgia where so many people have guns, nobody tried to stop her as she walked away?

They would have been very foolish to try and stop someone with a gun who wasn't hesitating to use it. In fact I was surprised at all the good witnesses who weren't afraid to watch carefully from inside their cars. I would have been under my dashboard.

Peanut6711 · March 23

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

"A Girl named Egypt." Another repeat, why does my DVR think it's new? I remembered it almost instantly, that the neighbors were pot growers and the killers went into the wrong apartment.

This could have been a half hour. 90 minutes of red herrings about the boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend and the brother. An entire segment devoted to how a beer was named after Egypt. You're running out of content, Dateline!

Brother's girlfriend Lindsay was the real hero here going after the local police and getting the case moved to state police. It's a wonder if the local police aren't sued for malpractice.

Weird they kept showing the house with Halloween decorations when the crime took place in June.

Agree, it reached a point where I knew this was another Andrea plays up the sensational elements episode. I felt bad that the victim's life was reduced to relationship drama on national TV when all along it was the skeevy neighbors that resulted in her death. Yet, she'll be remembered for all the boyfriend drama thanks in part to the local police and Andrea Canning's extensive coverage of it. Clearly, she wanted the twist ending, but more time spent on the neighbors and their revolving door of "visitors" would have been a more accurate narrative.

Hell, they still never explained where the Christmas lights that bound her came from.

TVbitch · March 23

Andrea's OTT smiling, giggles and enthusiasm over the fact that Egypt was a bartender was just embarrassing. To her brother: "OMG, so, like, she poured drinks, right beside you, at the bar!!!!!" 🙄

TVbitch · March 24

FYI, if you usually avoid 20/20, they did the Ruby Franke case this week and did a good, thorough job with little sensationalizing. Lots of similarities to Lori Vallow.

TVbitch · April 5

Finally got around to watching Sunday's 2 hour episode which was listed as the new season's premiere. No murder, but that guy was piece of work. Couldn't remember if I'd ever seen the story before.

Now this week looks like no episode Friday and a new one Sunday again.

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