All Episodes Discussion

[pigs-in-space]

Well, I really hope those ashes were returned to the first wife's family at some point.

[ChristmasJones]

I instantly remembered this case from the  48 Hours episode. Its interesting how each series puts its own spin on the case. I think the 48 Hours was better.

 

I think this guy would have killed her for leaving regardless if there was another man in the picture.

 

Sad for her kids....

[blubld43]

I wish Dominick Dunne was alive to cover his trial.  Nobody better to write up another rich person getting away with murder.

Edited March 23, 2015 by blubld43

[tobeannounced]

I also think the way that Durst was caught shoplifting was interesting.  It seemed intentional to me, as though Durst was bored and wanted to play some perverse game with the cops.  When the shoplifting video sits beside the HBO audio "confession," the "confession" seems as intentional to me as the shoplifting.  For whatever reason, in his warped mind, I think Durst wants to play another game with the cops.  From the media frenzy, all indications are that he will likely get his wish.

 

I was confused by why he would shoplift when he had thousands of dollars in the trunk of his car, so this seems like a pretty reasonable explanation.  Also, none of these shows mentioned the trouble he got into before this latest round where he was arrested for peeing on items in a store.  The guy seems to be coming unhinged (more unhinged).

Edited March 23, 2015 by tobeannounced

[editorgrrl]

I was confused by why he would shoplift when he had thousands of dollars in the trunk of his car.

Vanity Fair Confidential said when asked why he took the hoagie & Band-Aid, Durst reportedly replied, "I guess I'm just an asshole."

[Tunia]

Vanity Fair Confidential said when asked why he took the hoagie & Band-Aid, Durst reportedly replied, "I guess I'm just an asshole."

Well at least he's self aware!

[Ohmo]

it took me forever to place this case.  I knew that I had seen it before, but the names were not ringing any bells.

 

Rachel's dad wasn't that bad to me.  Sure, he was blunt, but I'm not opposed to blunt.  He had strong religious views, and he disagreed with Rachel's decision to go back to work, but there's no indication that he tried to force his viewpoint on Rachel.  In reference to Tim's painting abiility, Rachel's dad made his living as a painter.  He'd be the one to have a professional opinion as to whether Tim had the painting chops to make a career out of it.  He admitted that he had messed up his life and messed up Rachel's to a degree, but he's apparently found a faith which he finds helpful, and he's raising her kids.  I think he has genuinely learned from his mistakes.  While he certainly won't be perfect, I think he loves his grandchildren and will do right by them.

 

Aside from not liking Todd for obvious reasons, I also was not a fan of James or his daughter, and often I wasn't even a fan of Rachel.  I'm sorry that she was murdered, but she had horrific taste in men.  If the dating profile (or whatever that website was) is to be believed, she was ready to bounce over James onto the next guy.  Her dad admitted that he had done damage to his children through his behavior, and I think she was well on her way to screwing up her own kids if she kept bouncing from guy to guy.  She didn't deserve her fate, but I was not overly sympathetic to her.

 

I was very sympathetic to Catherine, and I wished that Dateline had reversed the point of view and told the story from their POV instead of Rachel and her string of men.  i know that Todd's in jail and Catherine's case is still classified as an accident, but her life, background, and relationships with family and friends are what I wanted to know more about.

[CaughtOnTape]

Did they tell us if Will Robin's wife survived?  I feel like I missed that if so.

 

Yes, she did.  There were several videos of her on the boat after having been rescued.  Pictures of her being brought into the hospital.  Will also stated that 2 1/2 days after the Tsunami she was moved to another hospital where they had morphine so she could finally be out of constant pain.

 

This show, the most out of all 3, scared the ever loving shit out of me.  I don't remember seeing some of the videos they showed last night.  That one where the guy is just standing on the beach while the water approaches?  HOLY CRAP!  It was like watching someone get hit by a car.  

I felt TERRIBLE for Callie's father.  I could feel his guilt.  

The sheer number and severity of injuries is mind boggling.  Like who would think water could break people like that?

I always wanted to understand what people meant when they would say "a wall of water" came out of the ocean, because I could never quite grasp what they meant.  But some of those videos.....yikes.  I cannot imagine seeing this thing coming at you and being able to do nothing about it.

[CaughtOnTape]

I finally got to watch this last night.  The detective made me want to throw things.  My "He's gonna send an innocent person to jail" radar was pinging like a mofo.  Just the way he justified things made my skin crawl.

 

I have a roommate, she has a 15 year old, I go days without seeing or hearing either one.  I never go into their rooms so how the hell would I know if one was stabbed?  It's called respecting someone else's space, dickhead.

How did I miss a big blood stain on the sink?  Because it's rude to beat your roommate's door down demanding an explanation for blood in a bathroom?  "Hey, I know you're a chick, but there's a big blood stain in the bathroom, are you riding the crimson wave or cutting or what?  I just wanna know in case some asshole cop comes in here and accuses me of killing you."

And as far as her reactions....I was the one who found my mother dead on the floor in our house.  Anyone who saw me that day could arguably say my reactions weren't normal.  I went from bawling my eyes out to calmly discussing things with neighbors in the span of about 5 minutes.  I am always so puzzled when investigators use that as a reason for their suspicions of someone.  "It just wasn't normal."  Well, you tell me what a normal reaction is to finding someone dead in your house?  You've walked into a situation that is completely NOT normal, so what's a normal reaction to abnormality?  Seriously?

[woodscommaelle]

Yes, she did.  There were several videos of her on the boat after having been rescued.  Pictures of her being brought into the hospital.  Will also stated that 2 1/2 days after the Tsunami she was moved to another hospital where they had morphine so she could finally be out of constant pain.

 

 

Yeah that I saw. They just didn't show any 'present day' interviews with her so I thought maybe I missed something.

Thanks!

[Soobs]

Yeah the detective was a piece of work. The way he was yelling curse words at all these kids didn't exactly want to make them open up. He needs to watch a few episodes of Homicide Hunter.

[biakbiak]

I still wish one.of these shows would cover what Durst and Susan's friendship was like in the 20 years between Kathie's death and shortly before Susan's murder when he sent her 50k. All the pictures and stories about their relationship seem to be before and right after Kathie's disappearance and shortly before her murder.

[AngelinaMaria]

About the wife they didn't show in current time, I figured that maybe they had divorced since then and they didn't include her in the interviews or she didn't want to participate. I was interested to hear how she was doing physically since then.

[photo fox]

Okey doke. Since it sounds like there will be several episodes, we'll split them out.

[BBDi]

When people set out to do wrong to others, they shouldn't expect their victims to just put up with it. They set in motion the events that led to their demise. Was their punishment too severe for their crimes? Most definitely, as I already stated. Not going to defend him for the brutality of his response. However, it is common for victims of home burglary to suffer deep psychological stress, constant overwhelming fear, feelings of violation, and feeling perpetually unsafe in their homes. That Mr. Smith suffered from these reactions is attested to not only by his own statements, but by statements of his friends. I think he became unhinged because of being repeatedly put in this position. Which could explain why he did not call police until the next day, among other strange and unusual responses.

The fact is that if they had not decided to victimize him yet again, they would still be alive today. He was not out stalking them on the streets. And they were no poor, disadvantaged teens. Very well spoken, prosperous looking families.

 

 

 

I think what the shooter did was indefensible, and seemed clearly premeditated. He seemed pretty off his nut. He could have called the police and given them the footage from the security cameras, and let justice takes its course.

 

But it bothered me the way the show seemed to minimize what the teens were doing. Multiple break ins? Repeatedly violating the same person? Breaking into peoples' homes and then going (as they no doubt planned) to sit down to Thanksgiving dinner with their own. And imagine being one of their victims - sending Thanksgiving with your family and coming home to find your house burglarized. What a shitty thing to do.

 

They didn't deserve what happened, but they sure deserved something.

[woodscommaelle]

Yeah the fire episode was strange.  After leaving the MIL's house the man thought 'where can we go' and called a friend who said 'come on over here.'  So, they went.  And then he went back up to his house while the fires were still burning?  And the three siblings?  Didn't the mom say she saw a fireball come through the front door and she knew her daughter was 'gone?'  And all these cars driving through fire and people getting out so close to the fires?  I need a do-over of this episode with footnotes or something.

[Yokosmom]

In a similar vein, the episode that I keep rewatching is the Chad Wallin--Reed case.  That's the one where a car full of older teens vandalized Chad's property, which prompted him to chase them in his car for seven miles, shooting all the while, killing one and injuring two others. I can see how someone in a remote cabin in the woods could feel frightened, but really, the guy was clearly off his nut. He had a sign, "you are now entering the ROC (Republic of Chad) and only god-fearing red blooded Americans are welcome" or words to that effect.  The teens thought the sign was funny, which was a sign of their immaturity, as someone just a little older would have realized that this indicated a mental state that was, shall we say, a little out of the norm.

 

The teens were the sort that thought that mild vandalism and shining bright lights into campsites in the middle of the night were innocuous things to do.  Not horribly bad kids, or outright thieves--more like adolescent jerks.  That said, they definitely didn't deserve what happened to them. And quite frankly, Chad was so into projecting his uber-macho-manhood, that personally, I think that he would have erupted at a perceived threat at some point or another, sooner or later.

 

His wife had a soft, child-like voice and like her husband, seemed to have a very simplistic view of things, or at least that's how she struck me.

 

The guy was a Ranger wannabe that got kicked out the military for wearing insignia which he had not earned, amongst other things. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Yokosmom

[Ohmo]

I'm now confused.  Thursday's episode didn't have Richard Engel.  It was Keith, and "The Real Blacklist" title wasn't used.  It was an episode about John McAfee.  Plus, my DVR cut off the end.  The last thing I saw was that Greg Fall's parents hadn't heard from any authorities in Belize.

 

Has NBC dropped "The Real Blacklist" series of Datelines?

[biakbiak]

I was wondering the same thing because the McAfee was mentioned in the press release about the show. I didn't expect Richard to do all the interview s but I thought he was supposed to host them but Lester hosted this week.

[Ohmo]

I watched the last 5 minutes of the McAfee episode online, but it wasn't tagged any differently than your typical Dateline episode.  I thought the whole point was to assemble a series of episodes that would pair with the fictional "The Blacklist."  That connection now seems to be gone.  This was an older episode because I remember 48 Hours doing it years ago, but you'd think that Richard would do the intro since this series is supposed to have an international feel.

[callmebetty]

This was just an updated Deadline because I remember seeing it. It focused more on the guy killed and McAfee fleeing and that's where it ended. The new stuff is him coming out of hiding.

You know how I remember this episode? Because of Keith and his scenic beach poses and lounging with the ex-girlfriend in the chairs. It was such Keith moves. I half expected him to show up in one talking head portion holding a margarita.

[knitorpurl]

Yes, Yokosmom, it was a bizarre case. I just saw for the first time and was stunned at all the bad, testosterone-fueled, short sighted decisions made by both sides.

The teens were foolish, impulsive vandals and the adult homeowner was a rage-filled maniac. There were so many places where everyone could have made better choices, but once the homeowner got into.his truck with guns there was not going to be a good ending.

And his kids were just so sure that their brave, strong Daddy was only out to protect them. I wonder if they've realized that he had his own agenda of proving how tough he was and making the teens pay for being in his driveway. I've no doubt the family was frightened but the overreaction was tragic.

[walnutqueen]

The over reaction was tragic and grossly CRIMINAL.  You're not allowed to shoot at people YOU are chasing.

[RedheadZombie]

In a similar vein, the episode that I keep rewatching is the Chad Wallin--Reed case.  That's the one where a car full of older teens vandalized Chad's property, which prompted him to chase them in his car for seven miles, shooting all the while, killing one and injuring two others. I can see how someone in a remote cabin in the woods could feel frightened, but really, the guy was clearly off his nut. He had a sign, "you are now entering the ROC (Republic of Chad) and only god-fearing red blooded Americans are welcome" or words to that effect.  The teens thought the sign was funny, which was a sign of their immaturity, as someone just a little older would have realized that this indicated a mental state that was, shall we say, a little out of the norm.

 

The teens were the sort that thought that mild vandalism and shining bright lights into campsites in the middle of the night were innocuous things to do.  Not horribly bad kids, or outright thieves--more like adolescent jerks.  That said, they definitely didn't deserve what happened to them. And quite frankly, Chad was so into projecting his uber-macho-manhood, that personally, I think that he would have erupted at a perceived threat at some point or another, sooner or later.

 

His wife had a soft, child-like voice and like her husband, seemed to have a very simplistic view of things, or at least that's how she struck me.

 

The guy was a Ranger wannabe that got kicked out the military for wearing insignia which he had not earned, amongst other things. 

 

This case drove me crazy.  It was the kind that within minutes, I despised the man.  I don't remember the wording, but when he described his love of shooting, his face just lit up and his eyes sparkled.  The other thing I remember, is how much I despised his wife.  I believe that she goaded him into his overreaction.  She acted almost childlike and told her kids how daddy was going to protect them.  Most mothers tell their children that their "parents" would protect them.  This is so the opposite of the way my mother was when I grew up.  But then my mother was the type who got tired of her stalker calling her, and when he threatened to come to her house, she told to come on over and she'd be waiting with her gun.  She was not a trembling coward encouraging her husband to go out and kill people because she was frightened.

 

His children even irritated me.  For the interview, they were lined up in a scene that made me believe they were in church.  All kinds of trembling lips and talk of perfect daddy and he's our best friend, and what will we do without daddy.  And then the interviewer (Keith Morrison?) commented to the man that he had needed to protect his two little girls, and the shooter agreed with him.  The man had THREE children, and the youngest was a boy!  Was he just on his own then?  It's disgusting how men get obsessed with the thought that men are out to rape their daughters.  Horrible things happen to little boys too, asshole.

[walnutqueen]

The guy was a nutjob - I've met plenty of them I'm afraid.

[Yokosmom]

His children even irritated me. For the interview, they were lined up in a scene that made me believe they were in church.

Sorry, quote function doesn't work on my tablet. I'm glad that you felt that way too, RedHeadZombie. I was feeling guilty for feeling the same thing. The kids were obviously quoting their mother and they spoke in the same childlike way as she did--same intonations and all. Of course, kids are supposed to sound childlike...

The kids were frightened because mommy and daddy made them that way, instead of staying calm to shield them. And if Chad wanted to scare the hell out of those teenage vandals, all he had to do was shoot that assault rifle into the air--that would have given him his gun protection jollies while scaring the hell out of the intruders. And no one would have been hurt.

I'm not downplaying being frightened by possible intruders in a remote area--but Chad had a whole group of friends camping there that night--he wasn't alone.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Yokosmom

[Ohmo]

I'm sure photo fox will fix the episode details if I screwed them up (which is likely).  Thanks in advance!

 

The murder of Dr. Autumn Klein

 

Husband's defense attorney: He wouldn't be that stupid to choose cyanide.

 

Me: Of course he would, especially if he's some world-renowned researcher.  His ego is probably huge.

[Ohmo]

aka The Husbands Did It.

 

Although, I have to say, i agree that the guy in NC should get a new trial.  While he very well may have killed his wife, I don't think the prosecution did a great job of proving that it was, in fact, him.  I do think there's reasonable doubt there and the civil suits were prejudicial.  That said, I also think the guy is a sleezebag, but being a sleezebag shouldn't be "evidence" for convicting someone of murder.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ohmo

[editorgrrl]

On "Last Dance," they kept stressing that Heather never would've died if she hadn't lost the weight. She died because her estranged husband killed her.

[editorgrrl]

Preview video: http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/dateline/preview-lethal-weapon-419240515818

A successful young doctor collapses at her home and is rushed to the Emergency Room, leaving friends and colleagues puzzled. When her blood tests reveal cyanide poisoning, it shocks the medical community and launches a criminal investigation.

[Lizzing]

On "Last Dance," they kept stressing that Heather never would've died if she hadn't lost the weight. She died because her estranged husband killed her.

That drove me bonkers.  I couldn't figure out what point they were trying to make.  Losing weight will get you killed?  Overweight people shouldn't bother because even if they do lose weight, they deserve to be murdered?  The worst ever cross promotion ever for The Biggest Loser? Skinny guys with an obvious fat fetish (he was trying to bulk her up, remember) are murderers?  It was a truly weird thing to push as the motivation for murder and put blame on the victim.

[JudyObscure]

I agree, Ohmo. He thought he was so smart that he would just call 911 and say, "I think my wife is having a stroke." and everything would be a breeze from then on -- wife dies of a "stroke," is cremated the next day, memorial service is tastefully conducted and no one ever, for one second, suspects the brilliant doctor. It would have worked for him, too, if someone hadn't noticed that her blood was brighter than normal. What a waste of a really nice person -- taking her dog's pulse in that picture was so cute.

[Fable]

Most of the facts fall in line with the husband having done it, and no other explanation makes a lick of sense, but the one thing I found curious was the fact that she told her cousin she wanted to leave him, and if so, why was she still trying to have another child with him.  I guess she could have been desperate enough for another child that she was willing to have one with a man she wanted to leave even if meant raising the kids on her own.  It doesn't seem to be up for dispute who did it, but still, that little wrinkle gives me pause. 

[jenkait]

A surprise Dateline today...  Don't know why there are extra episodes on Sunday but I'll take them...  This one hit a nerve with me as I've had two miscarriages in the past year, but I was also reminded things could be worse.  Those poor families being duped by the birth mothers and the agencies...the lost money would be bad enough but the psychological aspect would be so much worse.  I was very glad to see that two of the couples ended up with successful adoptions.

 

I don't know why, but I felt a bit uncomfortable with the "set-up" of Heather; she's used and hurt people terribly so I don't have sympathy for her, but I don't know, it didn't really seem to accomplish anything except for everyone to have a confrontation.  It didn't get her charged with fraud or anything, which she deserves.

 

On the other hand, I loved how Andrea Canning went undercover pretending she was a birth mother wanting to give up her baby and making up crazy stories.  That was quite amusing.

[gaPeach]

I agree with the "She lost weight and it killed her" storyline.  What a crock of crap.  She might have reached the conclusion she wanted to divorce him without losing the weight.  It probably just accelerated her decision to go.  Her husband did not become an asshole over night.  I would guess that she lost the weight so she could be more confidant to leave him.

 

I was married and decided I had gained weight I wanted to lose.  My spouse  did everything he could to sabotage my weight loss.  He would ask me to pick him up "something sweet" every night when I stopped at store to get a my dinner salad.  He didn't realize my resolve so It never temped me but it pissed me off.  One night I was so irritated with him I picked up the Krispi Kreme donuts that were covered in chocolate, glazed and filled with sweet cream.....(mmmmmm I Iove those), knowing he would eat everyone single one of them in one night,  And he did.  He also has diabetes so in my mind that was attempted murder on my part.  HA!  He is alive and well and REMARRIED.  

[gaPeach]

I missed all 3 of these and they are not on On Demand.  Any ideas where I can go to watch them?

[Fable]

I feel like I've seen this one before.  Was this a repeat or maybe featured on another show? 

[Morbs]

The one friend they interviewed was wearing the strangest top, which had like lacey cutouts on her breasts and see through fabric.  They mostly shot just her face, it just struck me as a very strange outfit to wear while discussing your friends murder.  It reminded me of something Robin Byrd would wear, that pornstar who hosted a cable access show..

[saber5055]

the one thing I found curious was the fact that she told her cousin she wanted to leave him, and if so, why was she still trying to have another child with him.

 

 

I have a friend who had an affair with her boss. She stayed with her husband long enough to get pregnant, then got a divorce and married her boss (who also got a divorce at the same time). She wanted another child and the boss couldn't have kids. Some women just want kids and the father is inconsequential. Just food for thought!

[AltLivia]

During "Silent Witness" they interviewed a blonde friend whose face was bizarre. Her lips were overly plumped. Her mouth and eyes barely moved and she had this whisper-y Marilyn Monroe cadence. She resembled a muppet. I could not get over it every time she was on the screen.

 

I don't understand these people who murder their spouse when there are very young children (or children at all) in the family. You'll inevitably be caught and jailed for life or for their entire childhood. Their only other parent is dead. And they live with the stigma of being a murderer's offspring. The child may not remember you or the deceased parent. I know that murder is selfish to the family at large, but it must be especially hard for those kids.

Edited April 7, 2015 by AltLivia

[callmebetty]

The minute I saw the first picture of them together I thought the husband looked like a serial killer. My second thought she was too good for him even when she was heavier.

Yeah I don't get the mind set with these men why does murder seem like the only option?

[MonicaM]

This story is exactly why my husband and I didn't even consider domestic adoption when we adopted our two sons.  Foreign adoption can be full of pitfalls, but the American system of private adoption is one of the most corrupt.  Babies, particularly white babies, are a "hot commodity" here in the US, and apparently there are plenty of people in the adoption industry who are ready and willing to exploit the market.  

 

I had no sympathy for any of the people who were set up and exposed in interviews.  My only regret is that there apparently is no mechanism for charging them with felony crimes and sending them to jail for a long time.  Heather should be locked away until she's post menopausal.  

[applecrisp]

I only watched the 2nd part of the program what a fucked up family.  They kill a nice guy and never get to see the beloved child again.

Edited April 12, 2015 by applecrisp

[Ohmo]

What's even scarier is the daughter taught kindergarten!

 

In reference to the first case in the episode: another poisoning of a doctor.  I found that to be kind of creepy since Dateline recently aired the Autumn Klein case.

[biakbiak]

I thought it was weird that the doctor who was nearly killed didn't participate. I kept dozing off so had to remind myself that he didn't die because he wasn't in any of the interviews.

 

The second family was cray cray! I mean I figured she had killed him early on but I assumed it was a heat of the moment kind of thing, not premeditated and her father being the murderer. Also, stupidest premeditated murder ever, who kills someone outside so close to the neighbors in the morning when they are likely to be awake.

 

The mother was so calm putting out a hit on the other grandmother. Also, how do they not know they are being recorded, it even tells you that you are being recorded on those phone calls and they weren't at all slick about it.

 

I worry about the child because the grandmother who is raising her didn't seem to be in the best of shape, I mean not crazy like the other side of the family but that she didn't have that many years left; hopefully, she has tons of help.

[walnutqueen]

I'm sorry the hitwoman grandmother only got 8 years - she should be rotting in prison for much longer with her shitty husband and awful daughter.  I AM glad the baby girl doesn't have to see that fucked up bunch of psychos until she's 18; then I hope she decides not to ever have contact with them.

[applecrisp]

The detective did say she (daughter) was running the show.  This sort of reminded me of the Beth Peterson case where the whole family got involved in raising the little girl.  It was very crazy.  She should have gone to a sperm bank.

 

I have to agree about the grandmother not looking like she was in very good health.  Hope there is other family.  Also, he may have been a laid back guy but he was a competitive speed skater which I am sure takes a lot of dedication and hard work.

Edited April 12, 2015 by applecrisp

[Lizzing]

IIRC, they called Stephen as his mother's "youngest", so I figure he has some siblings somewhere to help take care of the little girl if the sane grandma needs it.

 

ITA, applecrisp, the woman should have just used a sperm bank.  No man would have been safe with her.

[anncarol]

The thing that bothered me was that the neighbors heard screaming and didn't call the police.  The husband may have been saved.  Who knows?

[applecrisp]

I know I tend to watch these murder and mystery shows more than others, but I still have to ask, "Why is murder a solution to your problems".  Do people really think they will get away with it?  In this case, this family lost the little girl they loved so much.  They lost their freedom. Was it worth it??

 

The victims lose so much more a dad, a son, or a brother.  It just keeps happening, almost to the point where before I even know the story I think it was the spouse.  No mystery here it was the wife. Or husband.  They may have an alibi but then they paid someone.  There is almost no mystery left and we are treated to an hour of dumb asses trying to get away with it.  The worst offense is when they get young people to help them a la a Pam Smart.  Just read where her co-conspirtitor was released.  People were upset because he killed the guy, why?? is she still in jail? SMH.