S01E14: Against All Todds

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

When Veronica appears at the law firm requesting a favor from Todd, he agrees to help but soon realizes she may be out for revenge; Margaret is upset when she is taken off a high-stakes case.

 

[DanaK]

Wait, did Veronica get another woman to sub in for her in jail at the end? I’m a little confused about what happened there

[stonehaven]

I was sorta into this episode until the reveal of the woman going to jail in Veronica's place. That stretched all bounds of reality.

Still, Marcia Gay Harden rocks this show. Skylar is pretty to look at but Todd continues to annoy. They need to show some growth instead of him acting like he's 12 or something.

[AnimeMania]

Eliza Coupe as Veronica 
Mya Wolff as Dealer
Carmela Sison as a poker player
John Innes as Judge Myles Friedman
Laara Sadiq as D.A. Deanna Corrigan
Stephanie Cho as the Poker Game Runner
Leslie Silva as Beverly Crest
Julia Benson as Dixie Kimble
Michael Karl Richards as Dominic Kimble

This episode seemed really silly and problematic. I am almost certain it made zero sense, even though I couldn't understand a single thing that happened. I am guessing that Todd ran out of the bakery without taking the money, he should have taken it with him.

[redpencil]

Todd / Susan does absolutely nothing for me (and I love a good 'ship). I'd love for this to end in Susan realizing she just needed to get Todd out of her system or whatever but loves her fiance.

I also thought it strained incredulity that Veronica somehow swapped herself out.

[Daff]

Having a serial “big evil bad” somehow seems wrong for this show, especially since the two main characters are perfectly capable of stumbling into trouble all on their own.  Hope we only see her once or twice a season, as a little bit of her always goes way too far, and leaves a sour taste. 

[Trey]

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am guessing that Todd ran out of the bakery without taking the money, he should have taken it with him.

The money wasn't there.

Hated the ending.  How could that even happen, that the prisoner and the other woman got swapped out?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also thought it strained incredulity that Veronica somehow swapped herself out.

Yeah, this makes zero sense. She wouldn't have just been standing there by herself. When the cops initially took her away she would have been booked and held until the arraignment - when in the hell could she have switched places with someone? Without anyone realizing it? And get out of jail and walk around free? WTF?

Quote

Having a serial “big evil bad” somehow seems wrong for this show, especially since the two main characters are perfectly capable of stumbling into trouble all on their own. 

Agreed. Not to mention how stupid it makes Todd look, and he doesn't need any help with that either.

[eel21788]

13 hours ago, DanaK said:

did Veronica get another woman to sub in for her in jail at the end? I’m a little confused about what happened there

It was the woman Veronica had used as a decoy at the office on Klickitat Street (located in NE Portland and paying homage to Beverly Cleary's books Ramona the Pest, Beezus and Ramona, Henry Huggins, Ribsy, etc)

Edited March 3, 2023 by eel21788

[Sarah 103]

I love Todd and Margret working together. They don't always understand each other, but they do love each other and will do anything for each other.

The swap at the end made no sense. I can't see that working in the modern era. Won't they fingerprint the fake Veronica in prison and see the prints don't match? 

Vernoica as a season/series-long big bad does not fit with this show. She was fine as a backstory event to get the story set-up, but this series is pure USA Network blue-sky era, and she is from a super serious CBS procedural. It doesn't work. I'm okay with Todd having an outside antagonist, but it needs to be a totally different type of character. 

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I love Todd and Margret working together. They don't always understand each other, but they do love each other and will do anything for each other.

The swap at the end made no sense. I can't see that working in the modern era. Won't they fingerprint the fake Veronica in prison and see the prints don't match? 

Probably, but maybe by then Veronica could have taken off to some other country with no extradition and not have to worry.

But it still made so sense because the DA would have been at the hearing. Or if it was a different DA they'd have a photo of her. And why would the woman working with her agree to pretend to be her? Even if Veronica was blackmailing her, what could she have been threatened with that was worse than going to prison?

[tvfanatic13]

Was this the first episode without a family meal?

[LennieBriscoe]

Man, I hope that kiss wasn't  "Jump the Shark" time. 😕

Silver lining: That "Ring of Fire" sure sounded like Adam Lambert's version!

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Man, I hope that kiss wasn't  "Jump the Shark" time. 😕

Nah. It was the Big Bad Evil Twin Switch that really jumped the shark.🦈

[twoods]

It was so good to have this show back (I missed it) but damn, that kiss came out of nowhere. They showed Susan in a happy relationship with her fiancé and now she just had to kiss Todd? And Veronica being the big bad going out of her way to ruin Todd and Margaret doesn’t match with the fun tone of this show. I hope she doesn’t show up until the finale. 

[Brian Cronin]

There's obviously tons of competition for it, but boy, that Veronica switch might be one of the dumbest plot twists I've ever seen on a network drama. Wow, that was just insane.

What I also have a major problem with is the whole entire setup with Margaret and her firm. She's clearly the most notable partner at the firm, and all of the name partners treat her like shit. NO ONE WOULD PUT UP WITH THIS. There was just this lady with a $70 million company who specifically wanted Margaret to be her lawyer, but Margaret is still, like, "Okay, let me just keep my head down and maybe they'll eventually make me a name partner." What leverage does this firm possibly have on her?! It is an IDIOTIC plot point that doesn't fit anything we know about Margaret. What grown ass woman would allow someone like the name partner to dress her down like that and just take it, when she obviously has PLENTY of options?! It's ludicrous. 

[chediavolo]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:15 PM, DanaK said:

Wait, did Veronica get another woman to sub in for her in jail at the end? I’m a little confused about what happened there

It’s bull shit that that would fly. I love this show but WTF?!

this Veronica crap is running the show . 

Edited March 4, 2023 by chediavolo

[LennieBriscoe]

I love any show or movie with a game of poker! ♠️♥️♦️♣️ Add in The Big Con, and say no more! 😄

Yet another false note about the ending (apparently Veronica is to be as "Father Brown's" Flambeau, or "Psych's" Devereaux, but without the charm, humor, or purpose) is that neither Margaret nor Todd was in the courtroom to see their Nemesis sentenced. 🤔

[RedInk]

I’m reading these responses, and I’m SO SAD that the ending was what I thought it was. I was sure I’d misheard the name at the sentencing.

It was like the show got a whole new writing staff for this episode. First they take away Margaret’s power, when I was under the impression she was already a named partner or at least the most valuable attorney in the practice. Then the elaborate plot machinations for Todd that have to be perfectly set traps with some kind of psychic-level awareness of how it would play out. And they could have been explained anyway. Are they telling us that criminals sign ironclad documents that they’re part of a criminal enterprise? That’s ridiculous. Then they have Margaret buy into a game in an illegal gambling ring…which could get her disbarred (or killed), and I can’t imagine her agreeing to. And finally the asinine switch, and there is zero justification for how that could possibly work. Now they could have had patsy-girl take the fall, but serve in V’s place? What the hell? And this was my favorite silly show, too. 

Writers, do you read these fan sites? Because booooooo. Hiss.

Edited March 5, 2023 by RedInk
Typo

[Moxie Cat]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:01 PM, Brian Cronin said:

She's clearly the most notable partner at the firm, and all of the name partners treat her like shit. NO ONE WOULD PUT UP WITH THIS.

I wonder if they're laying the groundwork for Margaret to open her own firm, and of course Susan and and her other lawyer friend go along with her. I enjoy this show (mostly because of MGH), but often not too much makes sense, so that potential plot development would fit right in.

[Sarah 103]

6 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I wonder if they're laying the groundwork for Margaret to open her own firm, and of course Susan and and her other lawyer friend go along with her. I enjoy this show (mostly because of MGH), but often not too much makes sense, so that potential plot development would fit right in.

I love this idea a thousand times more than some of what actually aired in the previous episode. Does Lyle stay with the old firm or does Margaret bring him along? 

[eel21788]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:21 AM, Sarah 103 said:

The swap at the end made no sense. I can't see that working in the modern era. Won't they fingerprint the fake Veronica in prison and see the prints don't match? 

Clark Palmer did the same thing on JAG.

[Simba122504]

Well, that was ridiculous. The damn state knows what you look like! They know everything about you when you're in the system. That would NEVER happen EVER in life!  On top of that, those two women do not even look alike. They are not identical twins or some shit. Even if they were, it would never happen. Veronica sitting in the courtroom was a damn comedy skit. Also given Margaret's history and record. She would have her own firm or they would have made her a NAME partner a long time ago. She brings in a lot money and wins.  That subplot is also ridiculous. I mean wanted Todd and Susan to kiss, but not like that. It didn't fit in this episode. I would have preferred an episode where they actually work together on a case and it happens. Really anything besides what we got. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Simba122504

[Simba122504]

On 3/4/2023 at 11:59 AM, chediavolo said:

It’s bull shit that that would fly. I love this show but WTF?!

this Veronica crap is running the show . 

And the series isn't dark enough to make her come off as an actual dangerous threat. It's not that type of show. This is not HBO. 

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

And the series isn't dark enough to make her come off as an actual dangerous threat. It's not that type of show. This is not HBO. 

I hate when a show knows what it wants/is supposed to be, and the network tries to fight it for some reason. This show is not dark, gritty, streaming or premium cable drama that's going to be emmy nominated for drama, and that's okay. They need to accept that it's pure light drama high quality fluff, embrace that, and write the series accordingly. 

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, RedInk said:

It was like the show got a whole new writing staff for this episode.

Following a Wikipedia link, I discovered:

• "Elizabeth Klaviter, who served as executive producer/showrunner on CBS’ drama series Clarice, has been tapped to serve in the same capacity on the network’s newly picked up hourlong series So Help Me Todd, starring Marcia Gay Harden and Skylar Astin. She succeeds Liz Kruger and Craig Shapiro, who had signed on as EP/showrunners for the pilot of the CBS TV Studios-produced light drama."
  https://deadline.com/2022/05/so-help-me-todd-elizabeth-klaviter-cbs-showrunner-1235022865/

Clarice was *very dark* whereas So Help Me Todd is, as the article states "light drama"——although I thought it was going to be more of a dramedy.

 

[LennieBriscoe]

I find Veronica, Susan, Lyle, and the Other Son to be dull and boring. Not a great ensemble cast. 

The writers don't seem to know exactly who Todd and Margaret are. Who is the star, and who is the second fiddle (oh, I know by fame and salary, but by script?)? 

Is Todd supposed to be an amalgam of David Addison, Shawn Spencer, Adrian Monk, and Della Street, but not as goofy, not as gimmicky, not as OCD, and not a woman?

Is Margaret supposed to be a ceiling-smashing female Perry Mason, always winning in court after doing the investigating?

Do the writers really think that adding Todd/V. romance/love/sex will enhance this show? Because  not only will the series suffer, but they are gearing up for the same scenario with Margaret and her slovenly colleague who asked her to "go to lunch" in the boardroom. MGH ain't showing off her great legs fer nothin'!

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by LennieBriscoe

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Well, that was ridiculous. The damn state knows what you look like! They know everything about you when you're in the system. That would NEVER happen EVER in life!  On top of that, those two women do not even look alike. They are not identical twins or some shit. Even if they were, it would never happen. Veronica sitting in the courtroom was a damn comedy skit

Confession:
I've been known to confuse 2 people who have the same basic hair color and style, stature, gender, age, etc. until I get to know them. 
Also: 
I wish it was a "damn comedy skit," but if that was their intent, it did *not* succeed.

[AncientNewbie]

I'm not sure what to say about this one. I felt glad that there was something like character development, in that they just weren't repeating their same nonsense week after week, but maybe that's because characters were just tossed in randomly to do things. At this point, I'm hoping season two starts with Todd waking up from this dream about working with his mom with Veronica being after them, etc., and goes back to his normal life on (as somebody said above) a light drama USA-style series. 

Despite my weekly rage about "that's not how law firms work!" I stick with this, because I like the cast and I think there's potential. We're just reaching the point where we've got the set up and foundation laid and there needs to be movement on the potential. I didn't mind the Todd/Susan kiss for that reason...it's my own interpretation, likely to be wrong, but I felt the catalyst was that Todd was an actual adult around Peter, for a change, and that made her look at this guy she liked but who was usually a man-child in a new light. 

Then again, there's about even odds you can join me next week for my eighteen volume series on what they did wrong about practicing law, where I throw out everything I liked because I just can't take it anymore. 

[eel21788]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:55 AM, Moxie Cat said:

I wonder if they're laying the groundwork for Margaret to open her own firm, and of course Susan and and her other lawyer friend go along with her. I enjoy this show (mostly because of MGH), but often not too much makes sense, so that potential plot development would fit right in.

After what we saw of the senior partner this week, Margaret starting her own firm would open the door for a lot of plot lines about corporate rivalries or even corporate espionage. I really don't want to see it go there.

[AncientNewbie]

I could see Margaret's firm as a possibly storyline down the road, especially if it works out with her new beau. I'm fantasy booking, but a believable character turn (imho) would be realizing she doesn't need the ornate trappings of success but that she likes helping people. It would fit with her damaged children who learned (somewhere) to chase accomplishment over happiness (or fail trying). 

I also (which I think I said in previous threads) am curious about their late father. Was he a successful lawyer who married the secretary, who then became a lawyer in her own right? Was he a plumber, stable but blue collar, who watched his wife surpass his station? Was he the kind parent to Margaret's coolness, or did that come to her after he passed? 

I can propose answers for all that (Call me, CBS) but currently it's just a black hole that could be plotlines but instead we get half-baked characters re-enacting old trauma each week. (CBS is not going to call me, are they?)

[Caracoa1]

I love this show!  Marcia Gay Harden and Skylar Astin rock!  I'm Team Todd and Susan getting back together down the line!

[Eindestand]

This show's cred just pancaked on the canyon floor. I hope they survive it.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Even if she somehow managed to pull off the switch (crooked cop friends?), her sitting right there in court was inexcusable.

[snarktini]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:21 AM, Sarah 103 said:

Vernoica as a season/series-long big bad does not fit with this show. She was fine as a backstory event to get the story set-up, but this series is pure USA Network blue-sky era, and she is from a super serious CBS procedural. It doesn't work. I'm okay with Todd having an outside antagonist, but it needs to be a totally different type of character. 

Agree totally, having a mustache twirling Big Bad like her is a totally different show.

Psych was mentioned recently as the two shows share a producer (?)...The Yin/Yang episodes also struck me as "totally different show". The tone was completely different. When I rewatch Psych I always skip those.

[stewedsquash]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:23 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Man, I hope that kiss wasn't  "Jump the Shark" time. 😕

Silver lining: That "Ring of Fire" sure sounded like Adam Lambert's version!

Closed captions said

Adam Lambert/Ring of Fire 

 

[Irlandesa]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:17 AM, AncientNewbie said:

We're just reaching the point where we've got the set up and foundation laid and there needs to be movement on the potential. I didn't mind the Todd/Susan kiss for that reason...it's my own interpretation, likely to be wrong, but I felt the catalyst was that Todd was an actual adult around Peter, for a change, and that made her look at this guy she liked but who was usually a man-child in a new light. 

I recently watched this episode and I do not think it has anything to do with how he behaved like an adult around Peter, unfortunately.  

Earlier in this episode, Margaret told Susan that it was good that she dumped him [Todd] when she did.  She said Todd was a child and a bunch of other insults (she's mad about the legal situation he got himself into because of his ex...again.)  She tells Susan "Peter is much better for you.  He won't surprise you." 

Later on, Susan tries to start a conversation with Margaret about the "never surprise you bit" before they're interrupted, even though any dingbat would know that the "never surprise you" was said as a positive thing.  Margaret was not talking about never being given flowers, cooked for, or taken on a trip. She was talking about reliability and how Peter wouldn't be stupid enough to get re-involved with an ex who got him into trouble in the first place, forcing her to do everything possible to keep him out of jail---again.  

Instead of Susan realizing that she's lucky she has a handsome, successful, nice man who will surprise her in appropriate yet not crisis-inducing ways, she instead runs to kiss Todd.  

It's movement and it tells me she wants the mess. The problem is she's the least interesting and least developed character. They have no chemistry and her personality is "Todd's ex and probable love interest".  That's it.  She has been given nothing more to do beyond that.